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Synthetic-Method
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
4
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Posted - 2013.03.19 16:27:00 -
[61] - Quote
Sentient Archon wrote:Synthetic-Method wrote:My comments are in regards to their ability to maintain neutrality and maintain the Uni culture. How they finance themselves in not my problem and has historically been through donations. Not tech moons or ratting or other forms of income that sovereignty would provide. PConquest is equall to sovereignty as far as I'm concerned and I do not believe the Uni can justify holding it here.
Though there are great suggestions already posted such as having the uni participate in a mercenary like fashion. If its not your problem, why are you here? Dust Uni is asking for help out here. As far as them them being mercs;- ever played a corp battle with them? You are just full of horse ****.
Have you read the original post? Please calm down. As a graduate and supporter of E-Uni EvE side believe me I have their best interest at heart.
So whether I am full of horse poop or not it does not invalidate my comments regarding them owning districts or the fact that I'm not the ceo or director of that corp and that it's on them how they choose to fund their endeavors.
Back to topic. Mercenary style inlusions in PConquest are a great idea. Would allow limited access to corp battles without the danger of becoming known as a pet of some huge organization. |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium
399
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 16:28:00 -
[62] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:As its been suggested a couple of times. What is the general feeling then of the community of a Merc remaining neutral by fighting for anyone?
Would such a freelance corp still be seen as neutral and a corp that business could be done with as long as they were open about it?
Being open is the key. Declare your position and post your rules.
From what I understand the client will need to provide the squad leaders anyway. Since there is no means to pass ISK outside of a corporation at this point you could have a channel where squad leaders could come and ask for mercenaries and their pay would come from the normal match mechanics. Unless you specifically banned certain corps or alliances from this "merc bazaar" then it would be up to each student to provide their services. Basically, you would have a "looking for squad" channel.
Once the game mechanics open up then methods of payment would have to be considered. |
Alcare Xavier Golden
DUST University Ivy League
98
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 16:29:00 -
[63] - Quote
Sentient Archon wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:Vaerana Myshtana wrote:Academy, College, and University then "conquer" their assigned "fixed" districts in staged crap battles with the Major Leagues. Did we just suggest the same thing at the same time? This is a good idea. I think CCP should just assign 3-4 districts to DU and let them duke it out there. It will be a good source of income and practice for the students. I don't think we want to ask for favoritism from CCP..........that would nuke neutrality.....lol |
Sentient Archon
Red Star.
833
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 16:33:00 -
[64] - Quote
Alcare Xavier Golden wrote:I don't think we want to ask for favoritism from CCP..........that would nuke neutrality.....lol
Not if the community agrees to it. If the community agrees to you have 3-4 districts on your own I wont call that as favoritism. I would call it support. Again like I said it all depends on what the community agress upon. |
Alcare Xavier Golden
DUST University Ivy League
98
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 16:33:00 -
[65] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:Kevall Longstride wrote:As its been suggested a couple of times. What is the general feeling then of the community of a Merc remaining neutral by fighting for anyone?
Would such a freelance corp still be seen as neutral and a corp that business could be done with as long as they were open about it? Being open is the key. Declare your position and post your rules. From what I understand the client will need to provide the squad leaders anyway. Since there is no means to pass ISK outside of a corporation at this point you could have a channel where squad leaders could come and ask for mercenaries and their pay would come from the normal match mechanics. Unless you specifically banned certain corps or alliances from this "merc bazaar" then it would be up to each student to provide their services. Basically, you would have a "looking for squad" channel. Once the game mechanics open up then methods of payment would have to be considered.
Oh, this idea is definately under consideration... |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium
399
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 16:34:00 -
[66] - Quote
Sentient Archon wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:Vaerana Myshtana wrote:Academy, College, and University then "conquer" their assigned "fixed" districts in staged crap battles with the Major Leagues. Did we just suggest the same thing at the same time? This is a good idea. I think CCP should just assign 3-4 districts to DU and let them duke it out there. It will be a good source of income and practice for the students.
I doubt CCP would act directly and I don't think it's needed. The school corps can pick their own planet and set of districts, declare their intention, and go at it. Those that support the schools can help regulate interference from the community. The schools evolved from the players and should be managed by the players.
The player generated content surrounding this looks really interesting. I can see rogue corps attacking a school but that would provide experience for them. If it becomes overwhelming then stronger corps could step in.
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Sentient Archon
Red Star.
833
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 16:36:00 -
[67] - Quote
Synthetic-Method wrote: Back to topic. Mercenary style inlusions in PConquest are a great idea. Would allow limited access to corp battles without the danger of becoming known as a pet of some huge organization.
They wont make it! Is it too hard for you to understand that it will be very hard for DU to actually get merc contracts? Fighting other mercs will just be expensive, more than its worth it.
This is Dust. Not Eve! Things are different here;- unless some corp/alliance pays them a shitload of money to take over an empty district.
They need their own playground. |
Sentient Archon
Red Star.
833
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 16:38:00 -
[68] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote: The school corps can pick their own planet and set of districts, declare their intention, and go at it. Those that support the schools can help regulate interference from the community. The schools evolved from the players and should be managed by the players.
The player generated content surrounding this looks really interesting. I can see rogue corps attacking a school but that would provide experience for them. If it becomes overwhelming then stronger corps could step in.
+1. Another good idea |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
442
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 16:39:00 -
[69] - Quote
Sentient Archon wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:Vaerana Myshtana wrote:Academy, College, and University then "conquer" their assigned "fixed" districts in staged crap battles with the Major Leagues. Did we just suggest the same thing at the same time? This is a good idea. I think CCP should just assign 3-4 districts to DU and let them duke it out there. It will be a good source of income and practice for the students.
The key is that it couldn't just be Dust University. There would need to be two, or better yet, three "colleges" in order to ensure a good supply of battles within the "training" context. In addition, having a balanced trio would reinforce the neutrality of all of the colleges involved. |
Kevall Longstride
DUST University Ivy League
125
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 16:40:00 -
[70] - Quote
I like the ideas of a University planet but from some reason I keep thinking it should be called Tleilax... |
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Alcare Xavier Golden
DUST University Ivy League
99
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 16:40:00 -
[71] - Quote
Sentient Archon wrote:Synthetic-Method wrote: Back to topic. Mercenary style inlusions in PConquest are a great idea. Would allow limited access to corp battles without the danger of becoming known as a pet of some huge organization.
They wont make it! Is it too hard for you to understand that it will be very hard for DU to actually get merc contracts? Fighting other mercs will just be expensive, more than its worth it. This is Dust. Not Eve! Things are different here;- unless some corp/alliance pays them a shitload of money to take over an empty district. They need their own playground.
You don't think its feasible that university members could be used to fill holes in a corp match?
I would imagine that would depend on the size/power of the corp involved. If it's a big protofest then you're right...but if it's a smaller corp trying to maintain a footprint in New Eden...possibly we could help. |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
442
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 16:41:00 -
[72] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:Sentient Archon wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:Vaerana Myshtana wrote:Academy, College, and University then "conquer" their assigned "fixed" districts in staged crap battles with the Major Leagues. Did we just suggest the same thing at the same time? This is a good idea. I think CCP should just assign 3-4 districts to DU and let them duke it out there. It will be a good source of income and practice for the students. I doubt CCP would act directly and I don't think it's needed. The school corps can pick their own planet and set of districts, declare their intention, and go at it. Those that support the schools can help regulate interference from the community. The schools evolved from the players and should be managed by the players. The player generated content surrounding this looks really interesting. I can see rogue corps attacking a school but that would provide experience for them. If it becomes overwhelming then stronger corps could step in.
Exactly. That's totally what I was trying to communicate. Bravo! |
Sentient Archon
Red Star.
837
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 16:41:00 -
[73] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:The key is that it couldn't just be Dust University. There would need to be two, or better yet, three "colleges" in order to ensure a good supply of battles within the "training" context. In addition, having a balanced trio would reinforce the neutrality of all of the colleges involved.
What about Bojo's? Correct me if I am wrong but you guys are also a training corp? |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
546
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 16:43:00 -
[74] - Quote
Sentient Archon wrote:Vaerana Myshtana wrote:The key is that it couldn't just be Dust University. There would need to be two, or better yet, three "colleges" in order to ensure a good supply of battles within the "training" context. In addition, having a balanced trio would reinforce the neutrality of all of the colleges involved. What about Bojo's? Correct me if I am wrong but you guys are also a training corp? Yes, but I'd like to think of us as a bit more one on one than dust uni |
3 bird
DUST University Ivy League
120
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 16:43:00 -
[75] - Quote
Kev, your geek is showing again buddy
We are Mercs not Mentats :P |
Sentient Archon
Red Star.
837
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 16:44:00 -
[76] - Quote
Alcare Xavier Golden wrote:You don't think its feasible that university members could be used to fill holes in a corp match?
I would imagine that would depend on the size/power of the corp involved. If it's a big protofest then you're right...but if it's a smaller corp trying to maintain a footprint in New Eden...possibly we could help.
Yes. You do bring out an interesting point out here. Mercing for smaller corps vs smaller corps will work out for you. The payouts may be smaller but will still be profitable for you. |
Alcare Xavier Golden
DUST University Ivy League
99
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 16:44:00 -
[77] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:Yes, but I'd like to think of us as a bit more one on one than dust uni Care to elaborate?
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Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
442
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 16:45:00 -
[78] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:I like the ideas of a University planet but from some reason I keep thinking it should be called Tleilax...
Oh kitten, more Jovians, only this time hopped up on the Spice, Melange... |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium
401
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 16:47:00 -
[79] - Quote
Such a constructive thread. I can't wait to see what comes out of this. |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
442
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 16:48:00 -
[80] - Quote
Sentient Archon wrote:Vaerana Myshtana wrote:The key is that it couldn't just be Dust University. There would need to be two, or better yet, three "colleges" in order to ensure a good supply of battles within the "training" context. In addition, having a balanced trio would reinforce the neutrality of all of the colleges involved. What about Bojo's? Correct me if I am wrong but you guys are also a training corp?
Yes. I've been trying to hint that Bojo might be worth involving in the discussion without implying that I speak for him or the corp.
I don't know what his feelings on the matter are, but I think (personally) that it would make since to have Dust Uni, Bojo's, and someone else in that "Scholarship Coalition" I suggested earlier.
That would leave each "college" in a separate alliance, so no complications in terms of war mechanics, and with the possibility of EVE-side OB training.
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Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
444
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 16:52:00 -
[81] - Quote
Sentient Archon wrote:Alcare Xavier Golden wrote:You don't think its feasible that university members could be used to fill holes in a corp match?
I would imagine that would depend on the size/power of the corp involved. If it's a big protofest then you're right...but if it's a smaller corp trying to maintain a footprint in New Eden...possibly we could help. Yes. You do bring out an interesting point out here. Mercing for smaller corps vs smaller corps will work out for you. The payouts may be smaller but will still be profitable for you.
I think that the concern was that Dust Uni won't be able to afford things like skill books and a corporate armory for training without some form of income.
In EVE, you can potentially get very large donations from people who make billions of ISK a day. That is not possible right now (or in the foreseeable future) on the Dust side.
The districts would provide a small amount of income which mercenary contracts would not unless CCP implements a tax system or a contract system.
That said, I don't think anyone here is saying that having students "intern" in squads for other corps is a bad idea. |
3 bird
DUST University Ivy League
120
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 16:54:00 -
[82] - Quote
If Bojo feels like adding to the discussion he is more than welcome to, he might have an idea that works that we at D-Uni have missed and even if not would be interesting to get his take on things.
Having said that Bojo might not have the rigid view on neutrality that we at D-Uni have, If not it would certainly give him some extra breathing room in terms of P.C that are unavailable to us. |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
444
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 16:55:00 -
[83] - Quote
Alcare Xavier Golden wrote:Vermaak Doe wrote:Yes, but I'd like to think of us as a bit more one on one than dust uni Care to elaborate?
I think that Vermaak was commenting on the current pedagogical model at Bojo's. Right now, training is often conducted by teachers (some outside the corp) who partner one-on-one with students.
Of course, there's also the lab rat division for testing out mechanics. |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
446
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 16:59:00 -
[84] - Quote
3 bird wrote:If Bojo feels like adding to the discussion he is more than welcome to, he might have an idea that works that we at D-Uni have missed and even if not would be interesting to get his take on things.
Having said that Bojo might not have the rigid view on neutrality that we at D-Uni have, If not it would certainly give him some extra breathing room in terms of P.C that are unavailable to us.
I'm sure he'll wander in, I don't think he's on right now.
My understanding is that we are trying to be neutral as well. Again, that is my understanding. I'll let the man himself state his stance in his own words. |
Sentient Archon
Red Star.
839
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 17:04:00 -
[85] - Quote
Well both of you have a very good concept. Trust me one of the biggest problems with our recruitment is we are very tough on requirements. There are so many potentials I cant take in because we don't have the time to train them. Between grinding ISK and SP and corp battling it leaves little or no time to baby sit potentials.
DU and Bojo's essentially remove the training factor for most corps. Heck you can even trade a merc for ISK. If you have potentials that would like to join Red Star send them over. We can negotiate a "transfer fee" for them. Its another way to make ISK. |
Illuminaughty-696
Omega Risk Control Services
220
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 17:04:00 -
[86] - Quote
I'm working right now so didn't get a chance to read ALL of this, but I will do so later.
For now, let it be said that Omega Risk Control Services, all 10 of us, support DUST Uni owning a district or two, for training purposes. I envision that other corps would even contract them to provide PC training for their corp, by allowing them to attack the DUST Uni held district(s). These shouldn't actually change hands, and a treaty would need to be in place that was signed by as many, if not all, of the largest corps (clearly my own wouldn't matter and would be like Lichtenstein signing it - negligible in the grand scheme; hopefully no one from Lichtenstein gets annoyed at this).
Basically, for what little it's worth, I support the idea. But like many others have stated, it's a potential crapstorm waiting to happen. I'll come back with more in depth feedback when I have the chance to read all five pages. |
3 bird
DUST University Ivy League
120
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 17:10:00 -
[87] - Quote
Illuminaughty-696 thanks for taking the time to give some feed back, and we are just as surprised as you that this thread exploded to 5 pages in less than 4 hours
Sentient Archon, thanks for the support, its nice to know that the work we are doing is helping out. |
Sentient Archon
Red Star.
840
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 17:13:00 -
[88] - Quote
I have an idea for you guys;-
Identify say the top 10 mercs in your corp. Have them corp battle an established organization say CorpA. You can make it militia only gears or whatever. If the corp likes say MercA and want to hire him, check with MercA and see if MercA would like to join them. If MercA wants to join them set up a trade value for MercA and trade him out. If not do the same thing for another corp.
You can figure the clauses and details etc etc etc. This is another way you can make ISK.
Most mercs wont stay once they are done with the training. You may as well make some ISK out of it.
While this may raise some neutrality issues its just another thought. |
Sextus Hardcock
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
108
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 17:14:00 -
[89] - Quote
Might I suggest that the leadership of DU (and indeed perhaps Ivy League) reach out to CEOs of the biggest corps out there. You don't necessarily need anything more than their assurance that their corp will support your plan to have a 'Training Planet'.
Indeed the street goes both ways. Provide quality training to prospective new Mercs and farm them out to big corps with the resources to use them and you will likely find those corps willing to provide ringers to protect your Districts from so called 'rogue' corps.
DU/EU fills a fundamentally necessary role in New Eden, the learning curve is exceptionally steep in the case of both games (sometimes I almost pity little redberries as I kill them two or three at a time.) A basic education and some mentoring is necessary for the majority of players out there who may be unwilling or unable to do their 'homework' and learn about this game. |
Sentient Archon
Red Star.
840
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 17:16:00 -
[90] - Quote
Sextus Hardcock wrote:Might I suggest that the leadership of DU (and indeed perhaps Ivy League) reach out to CEOs of the biggest corps out there. You don't necessarily need anything more than their assurance that their corp will support your plan to have a 'Training Planet'.
Indeed the street goes both ways. Provide quality training to prospective new Mercs and farm them out to big corps with the resources to use them and you will likely find those corps willing to provide ringers to protect your Districts from so called 'rogue' corps.
DU/EU fills a fundamentally necessary role in New Eden, the learning curve is exceptionally steep in the case of both games (sometimes I almost pity little redberries as I kill them two or three at a time.) A basic education and some mentoring is necessary for the majority of players out there who may be unwilling or unable to do their 'homework' and learn about this game.
+1 |
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