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Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
459
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 18:01:00 -
[151] - Quote
3 bird wrote:Kain Spero wrote:I'll be in touch with the Dust Uni leadership to discuss. The service that Eve University and, hopefully, Dust University provide to the community warrants some thoughtful discussion. Kain, I greatly appreciate the offer but it is worth stating that we are still discussing our options internally and as such any talk with us at this stage would be flimsy at best. That's not to say don't get in touch but just informing you that we are not ready for serious discussion with outside corps. Also don't believe I thanked you for you grenade tip on twitter, works perfectly. (what even I get bummed at AFK'ers in the MCC )
What's really funny is spawning into a storyline game next to Kain and both of you cook off grenades at the same time. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1237
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 18:58:00 -
[152] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Unless you can get the ENTIRE community behind you - every Corporation with the numbers to play in PC - you're not going to be able to establish a training district, let alone more than that, and definitely not a whole planet.
If you can get 3 Corps together who are willing to do so, they could probably find and capture a remote planet that's out of the way and only really accessible to a new Corporation rather than an established PC Corp. Get a cooperative effort to set up a simple 3-corp battlefield and let DUST-Uni players fill out most of the battles back and forth. So each team has 3 squad leaders from the owning Corp in a battle, and the rest of the numbers on BOTH teams are made up by students - with maybe a couple of trainers in the match as well to give them pointers.
This would rely on the goodwill of the Corporations involved in the conflict, rather than on D-Uni being obligated on any level to "help" the owners - the stablity and profit from a region being held like this would probably be its own reward in comparison with any other place where 3 powerful Corps got a foothold on a planet and started tearing each other's throats out.
You miss the point. The purpose of district ownership should be unique content, either through special modules, pve, or player controlled facilities. A "training center" would explicitly not require a corp battle of any kind, it would be like having an invite only lobby. Because of the server costs it might cost AUR to establish or some ilk, but it is merely one of a dozen *interesting* things that could be done. |
Sontie
VENGEANCE FOR HIRE
160
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 19:25:00 -
[153] - Quote
This is a beta.... so beta test the idea of D-U taking part in PC and see if that meets your goals. |
Alcare Xavier Golden
DUST University Ivy League
111
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 19:30:00 -
[154] - Quote
Sontie wrote:This is a beta.... so beta test the idea of D-U taking part in PC and see if that meets your goals. The problem...? The meta game is player driven...and we as players never build a beta solution |
Mithridates VI
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
393
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 20:26:00 -
[155] - Quote
Thanks for the response, 3 bird.
I still feel that community agreement to leave D-UNI alone amounts to a community sponsorship. It's an income stream which, if not for the agreement to divert it to the university, would be going into someone else's pocket.
The system you describe allows a few things to be taught:
- Reinforcement timer mechanics, gathering a team to attack at a specific time.
- Different tactics within a match, depending on the combat resolution which is most beneficial, which may depend on whether you are attacking or defending.
- New respect for clone count and use of logistics players to keep the team alive.
- Presumably you can use the surface infrastructure to teach students the various uses of this slot.
To my mind, all of the things in this list can be practised in a skirmish. You don't need a real reinforcement timer to practice the reaction to one. You don't need real attacker/defender consequences to a match to practice aiming for a specific result. The only benefit that PC would give is that it would allow for an entire team to be D-UNI with the removal of the current corp battle system. Once the arena system is in place, this benefit would not be unique to PC.
But what can't be taught with the system you are discussing is the strategy on a larger scale, which I see as the most unique element of planetary conquest... development of a territory and clone-placement within that territory for defensive advantage, whether it is more advantageous to abandon a district and fortify those closer to home, how much territory can be held with x number of mercenaries, the most beneficial way to assault a well-fortified territory, consequences of clone loss in larger-jumps.
Simply put, the grunt work is comparatively basic. It's being ordered to aim for clone depletion, aim for MCC destruction, minimise friendly clone losses. This can all be taught outside of live PC scenarios, without ownership of a district.
The stuff that is unique to planetary conquest is the domain of commanders, strategists and CEOs and happens on a scale much greater than three districts and while it would be beneficial to teach the theory of this, it's not practical to learn it in the live game, unless you are willing to actively take part in the same way as other groups will be. |
3 bird
DUST University Ivy League
121
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 01:06:00 -
[156] - Quote
Hey again Mithridates
You raised a lot of good points and a solid argument so congratulations on that. I always like it when someone says something that forces me to stop and think, and potentially re-evaluate my position on something. As you can Imagine I'm loving this thread then.
Income
As for the income stream this boils down to perspective.
Mine being that in this situation the community would be supporting the work we are doing at D-Uni and giving us the tools to do our job that much better, the income generated from that isn't even part of my thought process, its an after thought.
Where as yours is, as you say, amounts to community sponsorship.
And nether of us are wrong. Just our priorities are different, you focus in on the income, I focus in on the tools and the educational advantages.
Education
You made 2 points here that id like to address independently so here goes...
Grunt Experience
You put forth the idea that anything that could be learnt on a grunt level could be taught in Skirmish map, and i see your point but its flawed, not in as much that your wrong... let me explain.
If we teach say the attacking strategy in a Pub Skirmish Match, we would be able to tell them to focus on Killing clones, and they would learn how to kill clones more effectively. But the opponent your playing against wouldn't be playing the same game as you. They would not be attempting to counter your tactic because they don't apply directly to pub matches so the random red pubber can still win by ignoring your focus on kill count and focusing on the objective of a pub match.
If you opponent is not playing the same game as you, they wont counter you, your guys wont learn against an opponent that is focused on stopping them.
What the students will learn to do is kill pubbers playing a pub match. To my mind that is like trying to teach someone to drive a car by getting them to ride a bike, its got wheels, and its got gears, its got indicators and an ignition. It has a lot of the individual components that you also find in a car but its not a car, its a motorbike.
Add to that, training for P.C would be the equivalent to a university education (College for you yanks) where by we take all the skills you have learnt and polish it all together, everything from your chose of weapons to your core fps skills to vehicle combat to your team play to your tactics and field awareness.
It's not just another lesson on our curriculum its a place to finish of our students.
Add to that the increased communication between the involved educational corps, sharing of information, teaching practices and the opportunity to have a direct comparison of teaching practices. it would be a hot bed of education. the ideas and minds brought together through it would change in game education. give me a tingly feeling just thinking about it.
Management Experience
You stated quite correctly that the most interesting part of P.C is the large scale strategy aspect of it. The choice of abandoning district to reinforce others etc and this is where there will be new mechanics to learn and again your right. But the large majority of students... if any at all will not be leaving D-Uni and jumping into a management role inside another corp where these mechanics are available to them.
Teaching these mechanics has little to no use to the student leaving D-Uni so we have no intention of teaching them. We might have a basic 101 of P.C management but that would be a standalone thing that required no practical tuition. we would do that for the community to help smaller corps looking at getting into P.C so they have a better idea of what they are jumping into and how the mechanics work. but tactics on this scale are well beyond that which we will be teaching at D-Uni.
Tactics on that kind of scale, if there is demand for it we might ask members of the community who are experienced in P.C to that level to write guest articles or something of that nature.
But D-Uni just wouldn't be able to do it, as you point out without actively engaging in P.C it would, at best, be presumptuous and at worst just plain arrogant and misguided.
So no, D-Uni would have no intention of actively campaigning in P.C to experience and/or teach tactics on that scale.
Dear god have I really spent so long writing so much for what could have been a much simpler response... sorry Mithridates think I got carried away there. having read it through again I cant even cut it down and simplify my point so sorry for the gigantic wall of text. |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
460
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 02:38:00 -
[157] - Quote
Don't forget friendly fire.
No FF in pubs. |
3 bird
DUST University Ivy League
121
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 02:56:00 -
[158] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:Don't forget friendly fire.
No FF in pubs.
I keep forgetting about that myself, going to be such a game changer.
Personally I'm equal parts excited and scared about FF. Excited because its going to make the P.C gameplay just that much more intense and squad co-ordination is going to be insane and scared because, I know I'm going to end up killing my own team and they will be killing me.
Still looking forward to it though!
|
Gunner Nightingale
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
374
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 03:02:00 -
[159] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:zeek1227 zeek1227 wrote:Hello zeek1227 zeek1227 here CEO of Blitkrieg Co. (No you don't know us we have like 25 people) Anyway I guess I haven't really been following you guys (I have heard of you but assumed you were a feeder Corp or something) and after reading this post was curious as to what you do exactly? Is it training for your own Corp or for anyone? What's is the curriculum? How is it profitable?
I'm not a rep of Dust U, but they are a part of the Ivy League alliance- Home to EVE University, the game's longest running and most respected training school for new pilots. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Eve_University_(Player_corporation) http://www.eveuniversity.orgThey have long been known for their neutrality in nullsec politics/wars and as a feeder for everybody. When I use the term "Colleges" in this thread, I'm referring to Dust U, EVE U and similar corps. In EVE, though, there are a lot of ways for EVE U to get funding and arrange practice spaces. There is not presently a set of mechanics in Dust to let the Colleges do that effectively.
Here's a potential solution for getting money to these guys.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=617802#post617802
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Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
460
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 03:02:00 -
[160] - Quote
3 bird wrote:Vaerana Myshtana wrote:Don't forget friendly fire.
No FF in pubs. I keep forgetting about that myself, going to be such a game changer. Personally I'm equal parts excited and scared about FF. Excited because its going to make the P.C gameplay just that much more intense and squad co-ordination is going to be insane and scared because, I know I'm going to end up killing my own team and they will be killing me. Still looking forward to it though!
My point was that the Colleges need to be able to teach classes in a FF environment.
Not being able to do so is like limiting an EVE survival course to hisec dangers. You cripple people's understanding of the game if they don't understand things like warp interdiction bubbles, cynos, stealth bombers, etc. |
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Mithridates VI
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
398
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 03:12:00 -
[161] - Quote
3 bird wrote: Mine being that in this situation the community would be supporting the work we are doing at D-Uni and giving us the tools to do our job that much better, the income generated from that isn't even part of my thought process, its an after thought.
My point is simply that in allowing D-UNI to exist unmolested, largers corps are depriving themselves of an income stream in the same way that they would if they sponsored you directly. To the treasurer of a corporation, giving away money and failing to capture potential income streams look very much the same.
I think that in considering the principles of neutrality, this basic level of consideration is missed. I don't think that the income is more important that the territory or the tools to teach the students.
3 bird wrote: Grunt Experience But the opponent your playing against wouldn't be playing the same game as you.
This is true and not something I had considered. Does the current corp battle system allow for two teams of students to focus on attack or defence and so let the other team play against someone who is directly countering their aim?
I ask because I am interested in whether the arena system to replace the corp battle system will also meet these needs.
3 bird wrote: Add to that the increased communication between the involved educational corps, sharing of information, teaching practices and the opportunity to have a direct comparison of teaching practices. it would be a hot bed of education. the ideas and minds brought together through it would change in game education. give me a tingly feeling just thinking about it.
I don't feel that a shared planet can be treated quite so much like a collaborative space as this suggests. That communication, that hot bed, would still be taking place outside of the PC mechanics, whether you had a district or not.
Those criticisms made, I'm still keen to see D-UNI do well and have the tools to support students in learning how this all works, so if there is no alternative to planetary ownership, I am in support of the idea until an alternative presents itself.
If the ability to train in planetary conquest without owning a planet was realised, would D-UNI abandon their planet? |
Gunner Nightingale
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
374
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 03:16:00 -
[162] - Quote
Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:You guys openly admit to taking in newbies and teaching them how to play, that's going to be too easy a target with so few planets/districts up for grab.
You know we'd gank if for a start, i'm sure other corps here would too. Chances are you'd end up on the defensive 100% from day one.
Maybe they can pay some bigger baddies protection money to shelter them from the not so big bad wolf.
|
3 bird
DUST University Ivy League
122
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 03:53:00 -
[163] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana , I realised the point you were making and it is so blindingly obvious that I didn't feel I needed to make it clear. Failing on my part there.
Mithridates,
Income
I do see where your coming from with the income. And I'm reluctant to continue that line of debate as its beginning to feel like your goading me. That's not to say that if you bring up a new point I wont answer it, of course I will but at the moment your point has not changed and so neither has my response.
Arena Matches
As to the Arena, unfortunately we don't know enough about when this content will be added to Dust or how it will work in terms of combat, it could be a short time after P.C is implemented or it could be years after. It's fair to say that when it is introduced and we know more about it we will re-evaluate our training systems and see if they would be improved or made more economical by, for example withdrawing from P.C and replacing it with the Arena matches. Or even if the Arena Matches are substantially different from Pub Matches and P.C matches if we need to include them in our curriculum.
Withdrawal from P.C
In short, hell yes.
If the mechanics were introduced that allowed us to teach the skills needed in P.C to a satisfactory standard without being involved in P.C and those mechanics did not involve substantially more management time or unreasonable expenditure then good god yes we would withdraw.
This thread came about because of Ivy League's and subsequently D-Uni's neutrality policies putting D-Uni in an uncomfortable situation that we needed community help and guidance resolving. If we decided to enter into P.C in any form be it coalition, independently, or in a mercenary capacity using other corps battles to train our merc (unlikely) and at a later date we had the option to do the same training we would withdraw without a doubt.
How we would do it.... probably remove assets, liquidise funds and post publicly on these same forums that we have removed from P.C and the district that we currently own are up for grabs, who ever gets first gets the district. would be a very public affair with the idea being that it is as if we had never been there and the land had just been left unclaimed since P.C implementation. About as fair and unbiased as it gets in New Eden. That or if the ability to trade ownership of district had been implemented we might consider hosting some sort of event and use districts as prizes, something silly like LAV races
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3 bird
DUST University Ivy League
123
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 04:04:00 -
[164] - Quote
Also worth saying iv got a lot of respect for Cerebral Wolf Jr, he is the only merc who has posted here being honest that his corp would see us as a target of opportunity. I don't doubt for a second there are many others like him who haven't posted.
So thanks Cerebral. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
749
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 04:06:00 -
[165] - Quote
3 bird wrote:Also worth saying iv got a lot of respect for Cerebral Wolf Jr, he is the only merc who has posted here being honest that his corp would see us as a target of opportunity. I don't doubt for a second there are many others like him who haven't posted.
So thanks Cerebral. We might hit you, but we'd feel bad afterwards but knowing free he'd probably arrange some training matches between our corps anyway |
3 bird
DUST University Ivy League
123
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 04:24:00 -
[166] - Quote
HA awesome gbghg, I always enjoy playing against you guys, every small push, hell some matches even every kill feels like a massive victory our end |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
651
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 04:38:00 -
[167] - Quote
Well Dust University and BSotT are head butting rams in the sense that we are two different corps vying for "attention" of the same matter. But I think we can use this and PC to both advantages.
As mentioned prior, PC could be a way that we could simultaneously train the students while satisfying the primal urge to have the bigger stick. But we can go beyond that...
I'm looking at the economics of PC *I haven't seen it mentioned much yet*. The Clone production of the districts is prime method to expand income to support a less than profitable venture. Sell clones at the arrangement of honor, not to attack our districts. I can tell that the community would be in uproar should Dust Uni get double crossed.
Basically we throw the dogs a bone, they leave us be, and in the end everyone profits. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
750
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 04:41:00 -
[168] - Quote
3 bird wrote:HA awesome gbghg, I always enjoy playing against you guys, every small push, hell some matches even every kill feels like a massive victory our end I'd love to play against you guys but the last time the matches came up they were at 6 in the morning but i've come up against you guys a couple of times in pubs, you tend to give a decent account of yourselves |
slap26
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
512
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 05:07:00 -
[169] - Quote
DU should approach the leadership of the top corps in the game to see if they can work something out. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
651
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 05:16:00 -
[170] - Quote
slap26 wrote:DU should approach the leadership of the top corps in the game to see if they can work something out. Translation: *wink wink* *nudge nudge* |
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Mithridates VI
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
398
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 05:26:00 -
[171] - Quote
3 bird wrote:Mithridates,
Income
I do see where your coming from with the income. And I'm reluctant to continue that line of debate as its beginning to feel like your goading me. That's not to say that if you bring up a new point I wont answer it, of course I will but at the moment your point has not changed and so neither has my response.
Not my intent. I was just unclear on whether you understood my position. |
Gunner Nightingale
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
374
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 06:12:00 -
[172] - Quote
Id ring for Dust Uni, im sure there are like minded blokes across the corps that feel you guys deserve special consideration for what you try to do for the community.
Then again could you really trust any of your ringers with FF on? (just playing devils advocate, not actually advocating it). |
Torr Wrath
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
101
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 07:17:00 -
[173] - Quote
Alright, Iv read the first 2 pages, and the most current page of this and i would just like to throw my two cents into the pot.
I respect what eve and dust uni do. I really do. You help new players get their bearings and thats great!
But you are going to try and play with the big boys in the initial stages of PC. And iv gotta tell you. iv seen the big kids on the block fight. And iv seen (many but not all) of your guys fight.
I dont like your odds.
With resources so limited across the board early on the fighting will be hard, messy, and incredibly lethal. Your biggest hurdle to trying to hold onto 'even' 1-3 districts will be fielding enough people of a sufficient skill level to both take and hold onto those districts against people who will (from my experience fighting you) be bringing better gear, and likely higher SP characters. You have to be able to perform this regularly.
This conflicts inherently with trying to get new players involved as they will suddenly be horrifically outclassed in both Dust514 experience (if not FPS experience) and in the numbers game (militia/standard suits with minimal SP boosting them dont stand up well to Proto gear and 6+ million SP)
Honestly? Your newbro's probably cant cut it. And unless you have enough vets (assuming you have guys who can compete on the 5 mill+ SP using advanced to proto gear level) on hand every day for 1-3 timers..
Well i dont know how you are structured. If you have guys at that level i havent personally ran into them actually playing at that level yet.
Im sorry im just rambling at this point.
The long story short is that where you are doing a great service to the community.. I look at eve uni and I -personally- think "target practice." Unless you guys are holding out on us.. you might wanna just wait and focus your training and income in the PUB matches. Do a in house donation drive.
Because where I dont control these decisions, im all for gunning for easy wins where i can get them to boost moral. And as a newbie corp? And based on past experience, you guys are (in my opinion) an easy win and probably wont last very long unless you are too far away from -any- heavy hitters for them to be able to ruin your day without huge cost.
**The above views are held exclusively by Torr Wrath, and Torr Wrath holds no claim of speaking on behalf of "Subdreddit" or "Test Alliance Please Ignore." Opinions of individuals in this corp may vary greatly, and the official view of the Corp/Alliance as a whole may be substantially different than those given by Torr Wrath. In addition Torr Wrath would like to state that Subdreddit does not necessarily fall under the 'Heavy Hitters/Big Kids on the Block' Category. Torr Wrath Doesnt know exactly where different corporations sit on the scale of murdering dudes. Torr Wrath is just a dumb grunt. Torr Wrath rambles a lot" insert any other "I dont wanna get in official trouble for this" legal-eze words here |
3 bird
DUST University Ivy League
123
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 09:15:00 -
[174] - Quote
Torr Wrath
Thanks for the feed back, I'm literally about to walk out the door for work and i will no doubt edit this post to give you a full reply. but I will say now that I am personally backing the idea of holding out to see just how hotly contested P.C is and see if there ARE and quite planets to work on.
But yeah edit and full reply coming later.
Thanks buddy |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2084
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 13:47:00 -
[175] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Unless you can get the ENTIRE community behind you - every Corporation with the numbers to play in PC - you're not going to be able to establish a training district, let alone more than that, and definitely not a whole planet.
If you can get 3 Corps together who are willing to do so, they could probably find and capture a remote planet that's out of the way and only really accessible to a new Corporation rather than an established PC Corp. Get a cooperative effort to set up a simple 3-corp battlefield and let DUST-Uni players fill out most of the battles back and forth. So each team has 3 squad leaders from the owning Corp in a battle, and the rest of the numbers on BOTH teams are made up by students - with maybe a couple of trainers in the match as well to give them pointers.
This would rely on the goodwill of the Corporations involved in the conflict, rather than on D-Uni being obligated on any level to "help" the owners - the stablity and profit from a region being held like this would probably be its own reward in comparison with any other place where 3 powerful Corps got a foothold on a planet and started tearing each other's throats out.
You miss the point. The purpose of district ownership should be unique content, either through special modules, pve, or player controlled facilities. A "training center" would explicitly not require a corp battle of any kind, it would be like having an invite only lobby. Because of the server costs it might cost AUR to establish or some ilk, but it is merely one of a dozen *interesting* things that could be done. I understand the point, but MY point is that there's no way to establish something like that within the PC system without the support of other Corporations and/or a violation of the conditions of neutrality D-U chooses to operate under.
Having the ability to create simulations of PC - even on merely the level of playing staged battles with custom rules (turning FF on) would be a HUGE benefit, but without such tools, the only real option is relying on other Corps as I explained, or "mercing out" D-U students as cheap cannon fodder. |
Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc
6
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 15:09:00 -
[176] - Quote
I may have really out of date information, but Eve Uni operates out of a station in High Sec right? I wouldn't see any problem with them picking a planet there in their high sec system for doing PC. Not sure how many planets are in that system, but eventually Dust should have all of this. There is a whole universe of content, other corps should find their own place. From what it sounded like in other post the vulnerability timer would be at a set time and you only need to field about 16 people. That sounds like if you come under attack you only field your still tagged Alumni and Seniors and Professors. If anyone claims about you not being neutral, just say. Hey, this is where we live, go fight somewhere else. |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
465
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 16:04:00 -
[177] - Quote
Daedric Lothar wrote: I may have really out of date information, but Eve Uni operates out of a station in High Sec right? I wouldn't see any problem with them picking a planet there in their high sec system for doing PC. Not sure how many planets are in that system, but eventually Dust should have all of this. There is a whole universe of content, other corps should find their own place. From what it sounded like in other post the vulnerability timer would be at a set time and you only need to field about 16 people. That sounds like if you come under attack you only field your still tagged Alumni and Seniors and Professors. If anyone claims about you not being neutral, just say. Hey, this is where we live, go fight somewhere else.
Highsec planets are not on the table right now for PC. I wouldn't be surprised if they never are.
Right now, it looks like we are only going to have 250 districts to start with. There is a dev blog thread in the Announcements forum. |
Fox Gaden
DUST University Ivy League
233
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 18:21:00 -
[178] - Quote
I am Fox Gaden, Director of Education at DUST University. (The position involves more paperwork than trigger work.) The following are my personal thoughts, concerns and opinions as I read through this thread. These comments do not represent the official position of DUST University. They are my personal thoughts and my position on these topics is subject to change as the conversation continues. It was a long thread, so it has triggered a lot of thoughts.
**********
In EVE, Agony Unleashed is another training Corp. They remain fairly neutral, yet that has not stopped them from blowing up my ships on several occasions. It is my understanding that they remain neutral by shooting at everyone equally.
In EVE the fleet mechanics for Sov are mostly the same as any other fleet battle. In DUST P.C. has friendly fire. (Other corps might want our graduates to have practice not shooting friendlies.) As 3 bird mentioned it appears that the tactical situation in PC will be different than in other types of battles, and the tactical differences is something we would want to drill into our students.
Regarding Faction Warfare: DUST University would only be involved in Faction Warfare as long as the mechanic allows a Corporation to take part without choosing a Faction. If choosing sides is a requirement as it is in EVE, then the only way DUST University would get involved would be if we created four subsidiary Corporations (one for each faction) to train members in Faction Warfar.
If DUST University does not hold any districts, then it will cost us 20million ISK every time we arrange a practice match with another Corporation. I envision training agreements with the larger Corporations to have fights in a mutually agreed on district. They can keep sending their new players to fight us in the specified district. If they need it back they just send in their A team to take it, or if they already have it at that point they just tell D-Uni that the arrangement is over. If another Corp tries to take advantage of the situation and attacks the district D-Uni is temporarily occupying the original owners can provide up to 13 members of their A team along with the 3 D-Uni squad leaders to insure the District is not lost to outside interests.
If a large Corp wants to hire D-Uni to hold training battles with them, the Clone production in the district they allow D-Uni to take for the purpose of holding training battles would be part of the payment for our services. The opportunity to provide PC experience to our students would be another part of the payment.
If DUST University only holds 1 district, it is two easy for another Corp to just wipe us off the map. I think if we hold a campos it should be at least 3 districts. Beyond our campos, any districts we hold will be temporary, for training, and normally based on agreements with other Corporations.
If DUST University has to attack another corp for the purpose of forming their Campus, then I would be in favour of reimbursing that Corp 20 million ISK so that they may attempt to relocate elsewhere. Once the campos is formed, attacking to take back a campos district that was taken from us would not require compensation.
I like the idea of D-Uni providing troops on a contract basis to small Corps to fill their ranks. It would give our members experience. However, it is not the best for instruction, since the squad leaders would be from the client Corp rather than D-Uni instructors. Also, D-Uni contract troops would not be the elite mercenaries, they would be the affordable mercenaries. You get what you pay for.
Only participating in PC through joining the squads of other Corps would not be an idea training scenario. It would be vastly harder to organize. It would be difficult to setup specific training scenarios. It would be less Neutral than having our own districts, since it would require a close relationship with another corp to setup these specific training scenarios. It is fine for experience, but would not work for ongoing training.
If D-Uni provides solders to other Corps on a contract basis, we would treat every Corp the same. If D-Uni troops ended up on both sides in a battle we would try just as hard (or even harder) to kill each other. This has already occurred in Public Matches. Getting perspectives from both sides of a fight can be a great learning experience.
I think D-Uni would definitely be open to working with other training Corps such as BojoGÇÖs school of the Trades to arrange instructional scenarios. One Training Corp may even have an expert from another training Corp join their squad as a guest lecturer to give a course.
If D-UniGÇÖs core districts are threatened, I donGÇÖt see a problem with accepting the services of another Corp (or paying another Corp) to assist in defending our campos. We would probably try to switch it up. It looks like there are several good Corps that support us, so we would probably try not to accept assistance from the same Corp too many times in a row to avoid the appearance of favouritism. Geography will have an effect. We will fight for, and fight against, the Corps that are closer to us more often then we will interact with the Corps on the other side of the Region.
Maybe in New Eden the term GÇ£NeutralGÇ¥ would better refer to a Corp that will do business with anyone, and is transparent in their transactions. GÇ£TrustGÇ¥ in New Eden is a rare commodity, but it will be an important commodity for DUST University. If a large Corp is considering letting another Corp take one of their districts so they can have some training battles, they will likely ask themselves: GÇ£Is this just a trick to get a beachhead on our planet for an invasion?GÇ¥ I think that being Neutral means operating in such a way that Corps Trust us not to doublecross them. It will mean not taking part in Coalitions (unless it is a Coalition of training Alliances) or taking sides in the politics of New Eden.
To be continued... |
Fox Gaden
DUST University Ivy League
233
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 18:22:00 -
[179] - Quote
Continued
I like Vaerana MyshtanaGÇÖs idea of having more than one training Corp on the same planet so that training battles can be waged on a regular basis. The designated training districts would probably end up being the most fought over districts in New Eden.
As Sentient Archon alluded to, the service DUST University hopes to provide is to get new players from Newb to Competent. I expect in the future many high ranked Corps will respond to applications from new players with: GÇ£Go join DUST University. Apply to us again when have your basic certifications.GÇ¥ D-Uni is not going to be graduating elite players for the most part. We aim to train players to be competent so they can join high rated Corps and hot have to be babysat. This is a service that I expect many high ranked Corps will appreciate. They can concentrate on conquest and let us train the newbs. (I should note though that we are still working on our training programs and it will be a while get before we are fully up and running with our training programs.)
I donGÇÖt think we will likely charge Corps for recruiting our graduates, but we will certainly welcome donations from them. I suppose we could charge for targeted recruiting though. Say Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz came to D-Uni and said they needed a Turret Gunner and Two Dropship pilots, D-Uni could charge for the service of finding D-Uni members with the those skills who were interested in joining PFBH. Maybe a small charge for including a recruitment ad in the next Corp mail, and a post of the ad on the D-Uni forum, and then a larger charge if an appropriate and willing candidate is found.
As Director of Education, I am completely open to the idea of Guest teachers from other Corps.
If D-Uni attempts to take and hold a district or three, and we quickly get wiped off the map, our members will still learn from the experience. Failure is often a better learning experience than easy success. We would still be meeting our objectives. It would just be more costly for us.
Those who think that a Corp that trains new players would be an easy mark should consider that D-Uni requires experienced players to do that training. Which group do you think we would send to battle if our home district (campos) was attacked? We still will not be able to compete with the high ranked Corps, but unless they like babysitting Newbs, they will likely let us be. We provide a service they need.
Those who say that D-Uni canGÇÖt handle the bloodbath that will accompany the opening days of PC should consider that D-Uni regularly has Corp Battles with top rated Corps. We always show up, we regularly get our ass kicked, but those Corps will attest to the fact D-Uni brings it and are willing to fight against the odds. The prospect of losing is not something we fear. It would just be an inconvenience.
Picture this: An upstart Corp attacks D-UniGÇÖs home district thinking it will be an easy mark. They enter the battle and find members from 7 or the top 10 rated teams on D-UniGÇÖs side in the battle. That is my vision of Neutrality. Corps who might be actively at war with each other fighting on the same team to defend the University.
If DUST University takes part in PC they would control two types of Districts: The GÇ£CampusGÇ¥ would be our home districts that we would defend by any means necessary, and Training districts that we would hold on a temporary bases for holding battles. These we would defend with our own members for the purpose of training. Large Corps may allow us to carve a Training district out of their empire for the purpose of holding training battles for their less experienced members. We would not expect to maintain control of training districts for long. |
Fox Gaden
DUST University Ivy League
233
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 19:09:00 -
[180] - Quote
Quote:Sponsorship would actually be against our key objective, damage the reputation of D-Uni and cause the standard of education we can provide our students to drop. So at no point will we ever be seeking donations from corps or player outside of D-Uni. I donGÇÖt think that 3 bird worded this quite right, considering that our counterpart EVE University is a charitable organization that runs partly on donations. I think what he meant to say is that D-University will not treat large donors any differently than the rest of the community. |
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