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Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 119	Posted - 2013.03.19 13:28:00 - [1] - Quote Topic: [DUST University] Opinions on new Planetary Conquest Curriculum Good day mercenary corporations of New Eden. As the dawn of planetary conquest nears, DUST University is hard at work looking at the best methods to include planetary conquest in its future curriculum. We are excited about the new content but we do have concerns around the responsibility we have to the community. EVE University has always strived to be a neutral corporation focused on training the new pilots of New Eden. Though DUST University also strives to remain neutral, we wonder if thatGÇÖs possible within the context of planetary conquest. There is little doubt that DUST University needs to take place in planetary conquest in order to provide that experience to our student body. DUST University also needs a revenue stream other than corp member donations in order to meet some of our training goals. Some of that financial burden may be met by planetary conquest. So we definitely have the incentive to take part in planetary conquest. The question is how do we take part, if itGÇÖs feasible. Our current thoughts are: Take one to three districts on a single planet and take our conquest no further. Continue to defend those districts until such time as DUST University decides to relocate under non-aggressive means. Retake any districts forcibly taken from DUST University, with prejudice. We seek out the opinion of the community in order to: Keep our agenda regarding planetary conquest transparent Ensure the community that we are remaining true to the Universities goals and ideals Seek feedback from the community regarding how best for DUST University to take part in Planetary Conquest while remaining true to those goals and ideals. Thank you for your time, Alcare Xavier Golden Director of Communications
Takahiro Kashuken Intara Direct Action Caldari State 146	Posted - 2013.03.19 13:41:00 - [2] - Quote Its a nice idea But chances are corps will want your land just because they see you as easy pickings They may even use the disguise that they will help you out and 'practise' but instead they will field ther A team and all proto gear because they know they will be able to take the land off you because you are fielding new players Some corps may help you out and be honest but i bet the vast majority will hamstring you
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 119	Posted - 2013.03.19 13:49:00 - [3] - Quote It's what we'd like to do at least. We just thought we'd poll the community for their thoughts.
Croix Rouge Greedy Bastards 0	Posted - 2013.03.19 14:00:00 - [4] - Quote I'd be glad to have at least one District next to yours. Small Corps could conglomerate around your Districts under a treaty of non-aggression and mutual protection.
3 bird DUST University Ivy League 116	Posted - 2013.03.19 14:12:00 - [5] - Quote Figured as the thread is here id say my piece. To me D-Uni is and should always be a purely educational establishment that aims to serve the community by giving those new player to the game a place to come and learn the fundamentals of Dust. And to best fulfil that goal I believe it is best that D-Uni stays neutral in terms of war. But at the same time I feel that for D-Uni to not have a means of introducing students to P.C would be a failing on our part as P.C is going to be a very large part of DUST514. While I'm reluctant to speak for everyone in D-Uni I get the feeling that, to a greater or lesser extent everyone in D-Uni feels this way. And I'm sure through the course of this thread there will be many more members from D-Uni putting their opinions forward. This thread started because those of us on the board of directors and the CEO are conflicted by these same feelings. We talked about taking a minimal number of districts, or getting non-aggression pacts with corps, the idea of giving up on our primary goal of education and neutrality was rejected as quickly as it came up. But the honest truth is we don't know what to do. We want to do our best in serving the community, we want to remain a neutral corporation to provide a safe starting point for new players. We also want to be able to introduce these players to P.C and we are struggling to find a way to fulfil those goals. So the idea was brought up that we should get the opinions of the community to reassess how we can best serve it and now here we are. Asking you guys what you think. We aren't asking for non-aggression pacts, we aren't asking for a fully laid out plan. What we want is to hear your opinion on how you think D-Uni should go about C.P. It doesn't matter if your a CEO, a Director, a member of a corp or still in the NPC corp. Your still apart of this community and we want to hear what you think, even if you see us as a target of opportunity or if you want to support us we want to hear what you think. Anyway thanks for your time and I look forward to seeing how this thread turns out.
Synthetic-Method SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 0	Posted - 2013.03.19 14:13:00 - [6] - Quote Unfortunately you will not be able to do this and maintain neutrality. For the same reason E-Uni does not hold sovereignty in the cluster Dust Uni will not be able to hold districts and have NAPs without meta being a factor and neutrality questioned in the long run. As for students learning about PConquest it will be up to their eventual home corp to teach them. Uni as an organization teaches new players about the game and is a stepping stool to another corp. Unless things have changed with Keldum stepping down otherwise the answer is obviously no Uni cannot own districts and maintain neutrality.
Jetteh22 DUST University Ivy League 34	Posted - 2013.03.19 14:23:00 - [7] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Its a nice idea But chances are corps will want your land just because they see you as easy pickings They may even use the disguise that they will help you out and 'practise' but instead they will field ther A team and all proto gear because they know they will be able to take the land off you because you are fielding new players Some corps may help you out and be honest but i bet the vast majority will hamstring you I actually said something similar to this in the Corp boards. That's my fear. We'll put time and effort to get the land, waste supplies, etc, and just be wiped out by a bigger badder corp. I suppose only time can tell - but New Eden has taught us anything it's survival of the fittest and D-UNI ain't the fittest :P
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors 279	Posted - 2013.03.19 14:24:00 - [8] - Quote I'm sure you could figure out a way to perform a vluable service for other more powerful corps out there so that they would guarantee your safety or neutrality with you.
3 bird DUST University Ivy League 117	Posted - 2013.03.19 14:27:00 - [9] - Quote Thanks Synthetic, Even with Keldum stepping down the core ideals he left with us will be maintained so there shouldnt be any worries there. As to your point if enough of the community feels like you, that we should leave P.C to the students eventual home corp that is exactly what we will do. so thanks for chipping in. Have a like (in fact I'm giving away free likes for every constructive post from a non-D-uni member but shhh don't tell )
Deadly Mitauchi SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 146	Posted - 2013.03.19 14:29:00 - [10] - Quote Synthetic-Method wrote: Unfortunately you will not be able to do this and maintain neutrality. For the same reason E-Uni does not hold sovereignty in the cluster Dust Uni will not be able to hold districts and have NAPs without meta being a factor and neutrality questioned in the long run. As for students learning about PConquest it will be up to their eventual home corp to teach them. Uni as an organization teaches new players about the game and is a stepping stool to another corp. Unless things have changed with Keldum stepping down otherwise the answer is obviously no Uni cannot own districts and maintain neutrality. This gentleman brings up a good point regarding sov. How do you train pilots in Eve Uni for sovereignty gameplay without holding any? Could you employ those same teaching methods here?

Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium 385	Posted - 2013.03.19 14:33:00 - [11] - Quote I fully support D-Uni taking and holding a few districts and don't see it being detrimental to its neutrality. The 'campus' will be an active battlefield at times which will serve as training for its members as well as giving leadership experience with the mechanics. If there is anything my small organization can do to assist please let me know.
Kamiya Musume Suffer Inc. 87	Posted - 2013.03.19 14:39:00 - [12] - Quote Non-Aggression pacts, or any other form of contract, cannot be considered impartial or neutral. I cannot see any way in which Dust Uni can legitimise holding any territory, or allowing, or otherwise facilitating another corp holding territory without ignoring their fundamental goals and values. I think you have painted yourself into a corner in this respect. +1 for asking the community, at least you can say you are thoroughly transparent.
Veritas Vitae Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz 81	Posted - 2013.03.19 14:43:00 - [13] - Quote If you are worried about maintaining neutrality while trying to help teach people about PC, I do think it will be hard for you to continuously hold territory without finding some nice neighbors. A potential alternative (which would still require cooperation of other corps) would be to basically stage battles on their territory so that the newcomers can learn the maps. The reason I say this is because the way the blog portrayed the maps is that depending on what kind of Asset you construct, you will get a certain map (or maps) to fight on. Currently PC seems to be at its core a landgrab version of Corp Battles, so D Uni can focus on using CBs to introduce organized warfare to new players, and occasionally do PC to help people learn the maps of that before they graduate and move on to a PvP corp.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium 386	Posted - 2013.03.19 14:50:00 - [14] - Quote Kamiya Musume wrote: Non-Aggression pacts, or any other form of contract, cannot be considered impartial or neutral. I cannot see any way in which Dust Uni can legitimise holding any territory, or allowing, or otherwise facilitating another corp holding territory without ignoring their fundamental goals and values. I think you have painted yourself into a corner in this respect. +1 for asking the community, at least you can say you are thoroughly transparent. There is no true neutrality in New Eden. Ivy League already has their own list of reds and blues. They exist through diplomacy and suffer war on a regular basis. I think the question they are asking is "does holding any territory make them look overly aggressive?"
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 122	Posted - 2013.03.19 15:00:00 - [15] - Quote You see our dilemma. Since the PC Dev blog it's been the elephant in room. How does a corp coming from a tradition of neutrality work in a game where there is nothing Neutral. I'm sure there is a solution we just have find it. But I strongly feel that we should be transparent with the community with such an important matter. The problem is that PC potentially is a large source of ISK for Dust Corps and we aren't going to be able to have a piece of the pie at the moment.
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors 279	Posted - 2013.03.19 15:03:00 - [16] - Quote Deadly Mitauchi wrote: Synthetic-Method wrote: Unfortunately you will not be able to do this and maintain neutrality. For the same reason E-Uni does not hold sovereignty in the cluster Dust Uni will not be able to hold districts and have NAPs without meta being a factor and neutrality questioned in the long run. As for students learning about PConquest it will be up to their eventual home corp to teach them. Uni as an organization teaches new players about the game and is a stepping stool to another corp. Unless things have changed with Keldum stepping down otherwise the answer is obviously no Uni cannot own districts and maintain neutrality. This gentleman brings up a good point regarding sov. How do you train pilots in Eve Uni for sovereignty gameplay without holding any? Could you employ those same teaching methods here? Well what do we know about the gameplay so far? Won't it be the same as FW gameplay but with FF and different costs/rewards? Starting clone counts will be different so that will probably affect strategy going in, but that can sort of be simulated in FW. The meta-game of who to attack and where won't be made by the average Dust-Uni guy any way.
3 bird DUST University Ivy League 117	Posted - 2013.03.19 15:08:00 - [17] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Kamiya Musume wrote: Non-Aggression pacts, or any other form of contract, cannot be considered impartial or neutral. I cannot see any way in which Dust Uni can legitimise holding any territory, or allowing, or otherwise facilitating another corp holding territory without ignoring their fundamental goals and values. I think you have painted yourself into a corner in this respect. +1 for asking the community, at least you can say you are thoroughly transparent. There is no true neutrality in New Eden. Ivy League already has their own list of reds and blues. They exist through diplomacy and suffer war on a regular basis. I think the question they are asking is *"does holding any territory make them look overly* aggressive?"** It certainly is one of the thing we are hoping to gain a better understand of. Personally we are all just as excited about P.C as the rest of you but we realise that our commitment to D-Uni comes first and foremost. Thanks for all the replies so far guys and keep them coming, we are reading them all and it is helping so thanks.
Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 431	Posted - 2013.03.19 15:08:00 - [18] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: You see our dilemma. Since the PC Dev blog it's been the elephant in room. How does a corp coming from a tradition of neutrality work in a game where there is nothing Neutral. I'm sure there is a solution we just have find it. But I strongly feel that we should be transparent with the community with such an important matter. The problem is that PC potentially is a large source of ISK for Dust Corps and we aren't going to be able to have a piece of the pie at the moment. My suggestion is to ally with one or more other "neutral" corps to achieve the same end. For instance, if Dust University, University of Dust, and Dust Community College all split a planet between themselves under a NAMAP, then it will be a bit easier to hold it. Of course, you'd still have to find the RIGHT planet to do it, otherwise neighboring planets would keep invading.
Sextus Hardcock Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz 101	Posted - 2013.03.19 15:12:00 - [19] - Quote I suggest that you remain neutral, and do not take any Districts. Teach your students with Pubs, and later FW. Once they are competent, you can seek out smaller corps who need bodies for their own PCs. Then, once ISK transfer for DUST goes live, I'm sure you'd find rich corps and mercs willing to help you out with your cause. Serve as a university, and make connections with the bigger stronger corps out there. They'll be happy to take your competent grads, and will compensate you for the effort. No need to hold ground to make the ISKies, get paid for a specific service to the community, instead of competing in PC.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium 386	Posted - 2013.03.19 15:15:00 - [20] - Quote Sextus Hardcock wrote: I suggest that you remain neutral, and do not take any Districts. Teach your students with Pubs, and later FW. Once they are competent, you can seek out smaller corps who need bodies for their own PCs. Then, once ISK transfer for DUST goes live, I'm sure you'd find rich corps and mercs willing to help you out with your cause. Serve as a university, and make connections with the bigger stronger corps out there. They'll be happy to take your competent grads, and will compensate you for the effort. No need to hold ground to make the ISKies, get paid for a specific service to the community, instead of competing in PC. What's wrong with them having a campus? One to three districts won't be making them much money.

3 bird DUST University Ivy League 117	Posted - 2013.03.19 15:19:00 - [21] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: The problem is that PC potentially is a large source of ISK for Dust Corps and we aren't going to be able to have a piece of the pie at the moment. I feel its also worth stating what we would use our isk income for, regardless of where it comes from (tax/P.C/donations) E-Uni has traditionally had a library of skill books that it give, freely to its members in core skills, as well as having Level 1 ships that come fully fitted for the purpose of classes. We intend to do the same with Skill books and Militia Tanks/DS and possibly even suits if the option becomes available to us. We also want to put any income towards advanced classes and possibly reimbursing losses in corp battles (read live action training) and holding community/corp events with prizes. My point here is that all D-Uni management is 100% voluntary. All Isk donated to the corp or earned through future means will be invested directly into improving the corp.
Sextus Hardcock Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz 103	Posted - 2013.03.19 15:22:00 - [22] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Sextus Hardcock wrote: I suggest that you remain neutral, and do not take any Districts. Teach your students with Pubs, and later FW. Once they are competent, you can seek out smaller corps who need bodies for their own PCs. Then, once ISK transfer for DUST goes live, I'm sure you'd find rich corps and mercs willing to help you out with your cause. Serve as a university, and make connections with the bigger stronger corps out there. They'll be happy to take your competent grads, and will compensate you for the effort. No need to hold ground to make the ISKies, get paid for a specific service to the community, instead of competing in PC. What's wrong with them having a campus? One to three districts won't be making them much money. I beleive that the competition will be pretty cuttthroat for the limited districts we have to fight over. DUST-U already has a unique niche as a neutral training corp. They will make more ISK from donations for providing a service to the community, while still preserving their neutrality. If however they can somehow hold those few districts without appearing to take sides with anyone (good luck) then they can still retain the trust and goodwill of the New Eden community, and will still get those charitable donations (when it's possible). I find this unlikely however. I for one, will not donate my ISK to a university that is directly competing with my corp over districts, but will donate if they are just helping new players into the game. I imagine there are many other people who share this view.
3 bird DUST University Ivy League 117	Posted - 2013.03.19 15:26:00 - [23] - Quote Sextus Hardcock, how in gods name did you get get that past the filter Joking aside you raise a good point that we haven't really talk much about in corp so thanks for that. Keep the post coming guys we are getting a lot of help from this so thank you all.
Sextus Hardcock Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz 104	Posted - 2013.03.19 15:33:00 - [24] - Quote 3 bird wrote: Sextus Hardcock, how in gods name did you get get that past the filter Joking aside you raise a good point that we haven't really talk much about in corp so thanks for that. Keep the post coming guys we are getting a lot of help from this so thank you all. Sextus masc. proper name, from L., prop. "the sixth," originally denoting a sixth child, from sextus "sixth," from sex "six" (see six). Hardcock A surname common in North America earlier in the 20th Century And your welcome. I'm happy to support Eve or Dust U
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium 388	Posted - 2013.03.19 15:34:00 - [25] - Quote Sextus Hardcock wrote: I beleive that the competition will be pretty cuttthroat for the limited districts we have to fight over. DUST-U already has a unique niche as a neutral training corp. They will make more ISK from donations for providing a service to the community, while still preserving their neutrality. This is a very valid concern. The pressure will be high at first due to the limit number of districts that will initially be made available. If they agree to a single district and declare their intent to not expand through conquest then I would join a non-aggression pact with them. I'm behind this because I think an institution such as this should be able to plant their flag and say, "this is our home."
Sentient Archon Red Star. 826	Posted - 2013.03.19 15:35:00 - [26] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: You see our dilemma. Since the PC Dev blog it's been the elephant in room. How does a corp coming from a tradition of neutrality work in a game where there is nothing Neutral. I'm sure there is a solution we just have find it. But I strongly feel that we should be transparent with the community with such an important matter. The problem is that PC potentially is a large source of ISK for Dust Corps and we aren't going to be able to have a piece of the pie at the moment. I hope you don't take this the wrong way but you guys are not yet ready for PODs. While it may make sense for you to have your own cloning facility to generate clones you will be an easy target. However if we as a community can agree that no one will take your districts, then it would be fine. Officially Red Star will support you the best it can in this initiative because it feels that what you are doing is good for the community. The Dust community has to agree as a whole NOT to take your districts and support you if someone does take your districts. I also think when it comes to FPS your training methodology needs some improvement. I would be happy to help you guys in any way I can.
Alcare Xavier Golden DUST University Ivy League 97	Posted - 2013.03.19 15:36:00 - [27] - Quote Sextus Hardcock wrote: I suggest that you remain neutral, and do not take any Districts. Teach your students with Pubs, and later FW. Once they are competent, you can seek out smaller corps who need bodies for their own PCs. We've though about this too, but the same issue applies. If we're helping other corps, even small ones in their conquest efforts, how can we consider ourselves neutral?
Alcare Xavier Golden DUST University Ivy League 97	Posted - 2013.03.19 15:41:00 - [28] - Quote Sentient Archon wrote: The Dust community has to agree as a whole NOT to take your districts and support you if someone does take your districts. I also think when it comes to FPS your training methodology needs some improvement. I would be happy to help you guys in any way I can. I will even support 1-3 districts being assigned to only you guys so that you can train people. I've made a similar point in the boardroom. We'd either need near full support of the mercenary community thus reinforcing our neutrality, or this may not be feasible. We also realize we have work to do regarding our training methodology (tool restrictions asside) and welcome help from the community in that regard as well!
Texs Red SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 5	Posted - 2013.03.19 15:41:00 - [29] - Quote Sextus Hardcock wrote: I suggest that you remain neutral, and do not take any Districts. Teach your students with Pubs, and later FW. Once they are competent, you can seek out smaller corps who need bodies for their own PCs. I agree with this, it will maintain your neutrality as long as you show no favoritism. Have a set fee per student for PCs that is open to anyone looking for people and have whoever is online take up those contracts, this would also benefit anyone who might have trouble fielding the full team they need. As far as I know few corps would have the renown or the size to fill such a role, small corps could possibly fill the PC slots of larger ones if they are short but unless corps take on smaller ones as fill-in alliances but then it is hard to know who is actually have decent and who isn't (let alone find them).
Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 434	Posted - 2013.03.19 15:41:00 - [30] - Quote Alcare Xavier Golden wrote: Sextus Hardcock wrote: I suggest that you remain neutral, and do not take any Districts. Teach your students with Pubs, and later FW. Once they are competent, you can seek out smaller corps who need bodies for their own PCs. We've though about this too, but the same issue applies. If we're helping other corps, even small ones in their conquest efforts, how can we consider ourselves neutral? I think the suggestion was for your students to be true mercenaries in those cases, fighting for anyone and everyone who will give them a slot instead of for their own territory. In that way, your support is completely neutral from a diplomatic standpoint. "Oh, I'm sorry that you were upset that some of our students fought against you when Carebears, Inc. attacked you last night. If you'd like, I'd be happy to put together a squad for you guys tonight when they attack again."



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