HMG needs a buff.

Lol no, but the Advanced and Proto suits do.

Even that black colour of PRO isn't intimidating these days. Poor fatties; at least you got promise that CCP 'will look' upon your class, so you might hope. We Scouts shall keep strafing in mud until indefinite.

The game has come to be play to win because of the cost of money items to ISK items. I can't compete because of it would cost me more ISK to go Proto and i would go bankrupt. The best i can do is advance and if i loss 3 suits a game i'm losing money.

I would put money into the game but, theres nothing to buy at this point of time...

Coming to my point i've notice that my heavy is becoming less useful in battle. I use to be able to take 2 to 3 people before i die and now it's hopefully one,Now it's not all the time but it is shafting to my heavy being useless.

I want to compete CCP but this game is not letting me.

So you can't afford to run Proto Heavy all the time?
Simple solution: Don't use it all the time.

Bring a cheap(er) Heavy suit at the beginning of a match. If it looks like you're going to do well, and having that little bit extra would be an advantage, bring your best gear the next time you spawn in. If you're looking like it's still going to make you a profit and will benefit the team, keep running with it. If you look like you're going to start losing money, stop running the expensive fitting and drop back to a cheaper one. If you've been barely covering costs (or failing to do so), run several matches with only cheap/free gear to effectively grind for ISK and get yourself back on track.

But you can't spec into to proto unless you want to go bankrupt.

It's not the point because if i spec into assault i could run proto gear all the time.

Lol no, but the Advanced and Proto suits do.

lol yeah right, it's called people adapting to the Heavy's Bullshit.

A heavy can still easily taking out someone within their CQC range, protosuit or not. Don't you dare try and BS and call your suit underpowered because you're dying a lot more often than when the game was brand new and everybody was behind in terms of fire power and match-up knowledge compared to the heavy.

There has been no change to the heavy other than it needs to be tweaked so it doesnt outway all other classes. So stop your whining.

There has been no change to the heavy other than it needs to be tweaked so it doesnt outway all other classes. So stop your whining.

Yeah right....

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=438827#post438827

lol yeah right, it's called people adapting to the Heavy's Bullshit.

A heavy can still easily take out 1-2 people within their CQC range, protosuit or not. Don't you dare try and BS and call your suit underpowered because you're dying a lot more often than when the game was brand new and everybody was behind in terms of fire power and match-up knowledge compared to the heavy.

Crying for a buff because now the protosuits are killing you, pathetic, when does it end? You heavy's are just always going to want an easy mode advantage. Can't wait till your HMG's Laser Rifle range gets nerfed so you can cry about that too.

It's not easy because they have chance to run and i've used half of my ammo.

lol yeah right, it's called people adapting to the Heavy's Bullshit.

A heavy can still easily take out 1-2 people within their CQC range, protosuit or not. Don't you dare try and BS and call your suit underpowered because you're dying a lot more often than when the game was brand new and everybody was behind in terms of fire power and match-up knowledge compared to the heavy.

Crying for a buff because now the protosuits are killing you, pathetic, when does it end? You heavy's are just always going to want an easy mode advantage. Can't wait till your HMG's Laser Rifle range gets nerfed so you can cry about that too.

WHAT!? HTFU!!!

You serious? What a crybaby thread, you have a 1000 bullet Clip and your complaining about using HALF your ammo, and the redberries can run away from you. Guess what, the Redberries can run away from anybody and everybody runs out of ammo you douche, you're too used to the easy mode you were happily accustomed too during the early days of open beta, those days are over you my friend Stop expecting all your kills to be handed to you on a silver platter!

WHAT!? HTFU!!!

You serious? What a crybaby thread, you have a 1000 bullet Clip and your complaining about using HALF your ammo, and the redberries can run away from you. Guess what, the Redberries can run away from anybody and everybody runs out of ammo you douche, you're too used to the easy mode you were happily accustomed too during the early days of open beta, those days are over you my friend Stop expecting all your kills to be handed to you on a silver platter!

So what you're saying is that it's fine for Proto Heavies to be underpowered because it somehow balances out the fact that low-tier Heavies are OP (pro-tip: they aren't, you just suck at countering heavies)?

Do you even know how a HMG works? So my HMG should go toe to toe and use half my clip for one guy?

He talks but i don't see no one at my door.

And why are you sounding so mad? Did you get molested by an HMG recently?

I'm always angry, rough childhood, so I'm a little fked up, I know.

The gun is fine, when you take a Gastuns for a spin, all is right with the world of HMG. Am eager to take the Freedom Assault out for a spin later today.

The proto suit doesn't look worth it at all from where I am sitting. Better to invest heavily into heavy weapon upgrade and the last two levels of HMG proficiency before I even think about going proto.

A Type heavy with a boundless, dual extenders and dual basic plates is a real tank, and although another extender would increase the fun, it doesn't really justify the extra cost, especially when I still have only one level into heavy weapon upgrade and two more levels of circuitry to do.

Proto for shield heavies might be a bit better, because i would assume the higher CPU costs require more output, but for an armor heavy, stopping at advanced isn't hurting your game, even without AUR.

The Armor proto needs another low slot, and the shield proto needs a price drop, and maybe trade a low slot for another high.

I don't care about scouts because it's rock paper scissors.

At least give us an equipment slot for nanohives at proto, jeesh!

The hell are you even talking about right now!? Can you even read you imbred? When did I say any of what you're implying moron?

I find it funny people are only now starting to realize this. I've been saying this for months before everyone got better dropsuits. If you played the last build, you would know what was coming down.

Everyone QQ'd so hard about heavies in the start of this build...now? Not a thread in a week or more about heavies being OP. People kept judging heavies based on public games, when they ran into noobs using militia suits. Now people using Advanced or Proto suits, and heavies have officially become the joke of New Eden.

No other suit has a useless Proto suit like the heavies do. The HMG's do little dmg to Proto Assault players who shield tank, or heavies don't live long enough to do dmg...thanks to broken dmg mods that CCP seem to not care to fix. Hey, broken AUR dmg mods = more money.

Now Heavies are becoming more and more useless in battles. Now you'll start seeing more proto logis, and proto assault suits because they are FAR better than the other Proto suits. And people crying for an HMG nerf? Well I'm saying this right now, if they nerf anything more in the Heavy class, then they should just remove it from the game period.

Think I'm wrong? Play as a heavy in a corp match against a good team. Then come back here and tell me your cool story about going 30-0 ... not gonna happen.

The advanced and proto suits need a buff, and price drop for it to even make sense using tbh.

Great rebuttal kid, couldn't even refute even one of my statements. You've already been exposed as a crybaby who's mad that everyone runs from him while continues to spray and runs out of ammo, boooo hoooo, BUFF ME. I'm done with you nerd.

I would be perfectly happy with the 100% cpu upgrade that ALL other protos get, and another low slot. as well as dmg mods being fixed

3 high 2 low for proto at the crazy price just doesnt add up. (which is only 1 more high from either advanced)

and half a clip for 1 kill? practice aim bud ;-)

learn your range, and lay off the trigger when your target takes cover.. HMG isnt supposed to shoot thru walls

The problem being pointed out in this thread is that the jump in ISK cost for Heavy suits is too high for the benefits of those suits. The scaling of other suits from one tier to the next is much higher than the Heavy, and the price gaps between tiers are much smaller.

You're arguing that it's fine for Heavies to be screwed out of usefulness at higher tiers because they can easily run through multiple players before that point.

I would murder you in a fight , so don't call me kid /nerd.

No, I simply explained the validity of why the Protosuit heavy is perfectly fine as is, aside from the fact that it indeed needs a 100% CPU upgrade like all the other suits and another 1 extra low slot. Go ahead and reduce the price of the Proto Heavies, I can hardly see any imbalance to gameplay because of it.

And what about logis and vehicules ?

My logi fit A-serie cost me 100k+ ISK, and I don't pay my gun : I play Exile. (can't imagine with vk1 and all proto stuff...)

My Madrugar cost me 750k ISK, and with enough teamplay, ennemies can destroy it.

If you can't deal with your proto stuff ALL the time, just leave it, your passives skills are not up enough, and you need a good logibro all the time.

It's all about risk, adaptation and reaction.

Edit : and as a corp, we know that some people earn more money than others, take less risks, or are really good to be rich. Thoose people help the others, because they trained a role that we need for FW ;) !!!

So you're saying the Proto Heavy is fine as is, but it could use an extra low slot, more CPU and reducing the price won't unbalance it even with those buffs?

How exactly is that meant to make any sense at all?

...
Can you even read you imbred? When did I say any of what you're implying moron?

People want 2 extra High slots and 2 extra low slots, and 100% CPU upgrade, a well as an ISK descrease, big difference you prick.

Are you trying to argue with me or do you just love sounding stupid?

Don't think this thread was directed at logis and vehicles...talk about WAY off topic lol

NERD

You're most likely diabetic, suffer from as asthma and fatter than your heavy suit in real life, come at me bro.

The problem is that there aren't enough logis reviving people making the isk losses mean less. Also, everyone is playing COD style where they think they should get away with dieing (and bleeding out) a lot.

Cost rebalancing won't matter for the time being and should really only be looked at once we get the real district matches going. It sounds like losers will walk away from those matches with next to nothing, making people much more hesitant to risk a lot of expensive fits.

We need to start fighting in ways that minimizes clone/suit loss, this means more logis, and more MCC destruction victories.

Wish I had links to all the threads where the old school heavies have been saying this since day one.

Doesn't matter the fit we are talking about. Heavies are perfect like this. Maybe 1 more high or low slot for the vk1.
It's all about teamplay. If heavies think that running alone in front of 10 guys and kill them all because of their high HP, they're wrong.

It's all about ISK, teamplay, and roleplay. Deal with this.

Even that black colour of PRO isn't intimidating these days. Poor fatties; at least you got promise that CCP 'will look' upon your class, so you might hope. We Scouts shall keep strafing in mud until indefinite.

People want 2 extra High slots and 2 extra low slots, and 100% CPU upgrade, a well as an ISK descrease, big difference you prick.

Are you trying to argue with me or do you just love sounding stupid?

Your fascinating reliance on name-calling and ad hominem attacks aside, if you are going to insist on impugning someone's intelligence, it might do to at least spell the word "inbred" correctly. You don't appear exactly erudite, yourself, friend.

What from their last big Nuff.

I have a proto logi. On my proto logi I can fit 4 complex shield extenders and 4 complex armor plates.

That takes my EHP to over 1000 i.e. 1052.

A proto heavy can fit fit 3 complex shield extenders and maybe 1 complex armor. That takes the proto heavy to 1000 + EHP.

Now please tell me how a role that's supposed to be logistical can have the same amount of EHP as something that's supposed to go toe to toe with a tank.

IMHO a proto heavy should have atleast around 1500 EHP. Lasers melt them like butter. MDs throw their aims off. Its BS.

The only people QQing about heavies are those whinny little bitches who couldn't even nail a drunk fat chick.

I can have over 1k hp in a B-series ;-)

maxed out proto heavy can end up with around 1300 HP if u fit it a certain way (not smart, but can be done)

No, I'm a door men that could lift and throw you.

The game has come to be play to win because of the cost of money items to ISK items. I can't compete because of it would cost me more ISK to go Proto and i would go bankrupt. The best i can do is advance and if i loss 3 suits a game i'm losing money.

I would put money into the game but, theres nothing to buy at this point of time...

Coming to my point i've notice that my heavy is becoming less useful in battle. I use to be able to take 2 to 3 people before i die and now it's hopefully one,Now it's not all the time but it is shafting to my heavy being useless.

I want to compete CCP but this game is not letting me.

My next point CCP, The next update is in april and i feel it's to late for me because of the **** ups and the pleasing ever reporter , that your fan base for the game is stasis. CCP you have all these great games out that for ideas and you've used nothing from them and that's a free resource. I feel that your game that you show off in adverts are the future of the game but the future for your game is't this year maybe in 10 years.

HMG needs a buff.

If you're doing bad as a Heavy you should be sorry for yourself. Heavy's are the killers of the game. Most Heavy's can go 20+-4 and that's how they make their money. Heavy's can also destroy most LAV's with their HMG's, and the range on HMG's is ridiculous. Also, Heavy's provide extreme suppression, and when paired with a Logi completely dominate.

The only reasion i say this is because there are assault guys in the corp that can take there proto suit and put 500 shields and like 300 armor and there should NEVER be that close of a stat merge. i know the heavy has been neffed to make all the randoms happy but when i cant even go 1v1 anymore with a AR i gotta look back and say wtf an AR can 1v1 me now makeing my heavy kinda useless

Cleared the thread of all the non sense posts.

Please keep it clean guys. Discussions don't always have to turn nasty!

At least give us an equipment slot for nanohives at proto, jeesh!

Even that black colour of PRO isn't intimidating these days. Poor fatties; at least you got promise that CCP 'will look' upon your class, so you might hope. We Scouts shall keep strafing in mud until indefinite.

i will agree with 4447 on his first post on this thread. I have been noticeing that my b-series isnt very good in terms of compeating with other suits, even now that the ptw proto suits are out. Also in reguards the HMG is fine where it is in terms of DMG but the suit i do thinks needs a bit of a buff in terms of armor/shields. The only reasion i say this is because there are assault guys in the corp that can take there proto suit and put 500 shields and like 300 armor and there should NEVER be that close of a stat merge. i know the heavy has been neffed to make all the randoms happy but when i cant even go 1v1 anymore with a AR i gotta look back and say wtf an AR can 1v1 me now makeing my heavy kinda useless and furthermore heavys i know that play the class very well are changeing there class even after 4mil sp has been put into it. the only thing i would really like to see is the progressive stats put back into all the suits so as to where when i lvl up from say standard suit to advanced there is also a bigger armor/shield pool to draw from just like they had it on the 1-4 build in closed bete. the armor heavy took a 400 point hit to its stats then and as much as that sucked we delt with it, the fact that a assault suit can almost match a heavy in terms of armor /shields just isnt right if the heavy is suppose to be more of a "defender" class. in all honesty ill still play my heavy cause its what i do but i really hope there is a improvement to the suit because i really is geting hard to compeat with the assault suits or the scout/AR suits.

Honestly? Damage mods are fine.

.

+65% damage (once you add in Weaponry V and Proficiency) is not okay.

On anything.

Cleared the thread of all the non sense posts.

Please keep it clean guys. Discussions don't always have to turn nasty!

I'm not really sure about this.
I've never been sitting face down in a pool of my own blood after getting torn in half by a heavy thinking, "gee, heavies are really underpowered." Having said that, I've also cut plenty of heavies in half myself, but I always thought that was due to my range superiority on my AR, not because heavies were weak.

But +125% shields is?

I used to think the way you do, then I did the math.

It's happening now, heavies will be outdated soon because of people running proto gear and heavies just can't compete because are gear cost to much to compete.

I'm going to start spec into assault because i'd be able to run proto gear and make money.

proto and adv heavys need a serious buff in order to stay relevant. been saying it since day 1

CCP buff the heavy please

But you can't spec into to proto unless you want to go bankrupt.

Vk.0: 3 high 5 low
Vk.1: 4 high, 3 low

I know this must of been a typo, since the maximum amount of mod slots is four, and five is quite impossible, unless you are diving an HAV.

Lol a 4 high, 3 low or 3 high, 4 low setup with 5% shield and armor increase is way to much asked for.
Giving the heavy suit 3 high, 3 low setup with a decrease in cost for the VK1 is more acceptable, but if they do this they need to give scouts either a 3 high 4 low setup or a speed increase.

Since we are talking about suits why does the heavy VK1 have the racial attributes of a Caldari suit? isnt amarr supposed to be armor specialized? Also why is the caldari variant of a scout suit so TERRIBAD?

The game has come to be play to win because of the cost of money items to ISK items. I can't compete because of it would cost me more ISK to go Proto and i would go bankrupt. The best i can do is advance and if i loss 3 suits a game i'm losing money.

I would put money into the game but, theres nothing to buy at this point of time...

Coming to my point i've notice that my heavy is becoming less useful in battle. I use to be able to take 2 to 3 people before i die and now it's hopefully one,Now it's not all the time but it is shafting to my heavy being useless.

I want to compete CCP but this game is not letting me.

My next point CCP, The next update is in april and i feel it's to late for me because of the **** ups and the pleasing ever reporter , that your fan base for the game is stasis. CCP you have all these great games out that for ideas and you've used nothing from them and that's a free resource. I feel that your game that you show off in adverts are the future of the game but the future for your game is't this year maybe in 10 years.

HMG needs a buff.

Sorry, I gotta agree with the guy who said basing balance issues off of pub matches is a foolish way to go about things. Especially the 1 v 1 situations. This is a team game. 4447 I would say you shouldn't pull out your good gear unless you have a trusted logi with you. Also, if you are at proto suits already, I am going to guess you are lower in some of the passive skills.

I don't play heavies so maybe the proto suits do need a little help, but you gotta remember that with the other classes shields and armor don't go up with the suits, one only gets more cpu, pg, and slots. Heavies get increased armor or shields as they go up in level.

If heavy players feel this isn't fair, then maybe we should make them like the other classes where shields/armor stay the same and you get increasing slots, pg, and cpu.

People are mentioning how an assault or logi can get armor or shields near a heavy and thats true, but to do so one has to sacrifice damage, recharge rate of armor and/or shields, and speed. That makes it players choice, give heavies the same choices.

4447 I would say you shouldn't pull out your good gear unless you have a trusted logi with you. Also, if you are at proto suits already, I am going to guess you are lower in some of the passive skills. If there isn't a Zion logi to roll with and I'm on I'll run logi for you, I'm pretty good at taking care of my fatties ;)

lol people are getting better.
calm down just cuz you died doesn't mean everything you use needs buffed an everything they use needs nerfed

Heavies don't get increased armor or shields as they go up a level.. They have the same base health like every other suit.

However to make higher tier heavy suits more viable, they should bring that back.

well theres one base health change from milita to standard but thts it. i agree with proto suits having module slots. :D.

The game has come to be play to win because of the cost of money items to ISK items. I can't compete because of it would cost me more ISK to go Proto and i would go bankrupt. The best i can do is advance and if i loss 3 suits a game i'm losing money.

*** SURPRISE!!!!!! ***

errrrrr...... Oh! It isn't is it? You were playing in CB so you knew this was coming as we've been on the same build for 5 months :)




*boo, hoo*

Assault full proto fit is in the region of 190,000
Assault advanced is 110,000

they lose 3 suits they're losing money.

And I would guess same for most classes -- so what makes the heavy so special that you think it should be affordable for you to run full proto fit 'ALL DAY, EVERY DAY'?

The problem is, you die too much because for the last 2 months you've had it easy against weaker suit's/weapons and less experienced players - YOU had this coming, now GET GOOD!

Assault full proto fit is in the region of 190,000
Assault advanced is 110,000

Full proto fit, A proto heavy suit by itself costs more than that.

I'm not sure that you did do the math.

lol

Proto suit 245k ISK

What's so funny?

The feeling is mutual, but for the sake of SCIENCE! I'll keep it civil and walk you through it.

Your example is a disembodied AR shooting at disembodied shields. You can't equip a damage mod without giving up the slot for something else, like shields.

In game it comes down to your fit + SP + player skill VS his fit + SP + player skill. We'll have to assume SP is equal or else the hypotheticals get out of control. And player skill is most important, but it's also the most highly variable, so we have to factor it out.

For the sake of example let's compare two suits.

Both have:
Assault Vk.1: 225 Shields, 105 Armor base
Duvolle Assault Rifle: 34.1 Damage, 750 RPM, 426.25 DPS
Lows: 1 armor rep of equal quality, 2x 87HP plates

One guy has 4x Complex Damage mods at 1.1x multiplier each, the other has Complex Extenders, at +66 Shield HP each.

Both have max Weaponry, AR Spec, armor, and shield skills. AR does 110% damage to shields, 90% damage to armor.

Damage mod guy final stats:
Shield HP: 281.25
Armor HP: 305.25
DPS: 789.45 (base*1.1 weaponry*1.15 spec*1.1*1.1*1.1*1.1mods)

Shield mod guy final stats:
Shield HP: 545.25
Armor HP: 305.25
DPS: 539.20 (base*1.1 weaponry*1.15 spec)

Damage mod guy kills shield guy in 1.058s.
Shield guy kills damage mod guy in 0.904s.

TLDR: Shield mods win.

Damage mod guy kills shield guy in 1.058s.
Shield guy kills damage mod guy in 0.904s.

TLDR: Shield mods win.

The feeling is mutual, but for the sake of SCIENCE! I'll keep it civil and walk you through it.

Your example is a disembodied AR shooting at disembodied shields. You can't equip a damage mod without giving up the slot for something else, like shields.

In game it comes down to your fit + SP + player skill VS his fit + SP + player skill. We'll have to assume SP is equal or else the hypotheticals get out of control. And player skill is most important, but it's also the most highly variable, so we have to factor it out.

For the sake of example let's compare two suits.

Both have:
Assault Vk.1: 225 Shields, 105 Armor base
Duvolle Assault Rifle: 34.1 Damage, 750 RPM, 426.25 DPS
Lows: 1 armor rep of equal quality, 2x 87HP plates

One guy has 4x Complex Damage mods at 1.1x multiplier each, the other has Complex Extenders, at +66 Shield HP each.

Both have max Weaponry, AR Spec, armor, and shield skills. AR does 110% damage to shields, 90% damage to armor.

Damage mod guy final stats:
Shield HP: 281.25
Armor HP: 305.25
DPS: 789.45 (base*1.1 weaponry*1.15 spec*1.1*1.1*1.1*1.1mods)

Shield mod guy final stats:
Shield HP: 545.2
Armor HP: 305.25
DPS: 539.20 (base*1.1 weaponry*1.15 spec)

Damage mod guy kills shield guy in 1.058s.
Shield guy kills damage mod guy in 0.904s.

TLDR: Shield mods win.

Forgot head shots in your math

Unless CCP does something, I'm pretty sure I have wasted time and money on my heavy suit and weapons. I knew everyone would be fine with heavies once we could barely beat any other suit one on one. Either buff heavies to be the room clearers we're supposed to be or remove the suit and HMG altogether.

Lol no, but the Advanced and Proto suits do.

so you have to be able to match an entire room of people firing at you and just kill 'em all with a wave of your magic HMG?

you can say that with a straight face?

that doesn't seem op at all?

But dmg mods have no stacking penalty as they are, therefor they're broken, and have been broken for months now. I don't know why anyone would defend something that's glitched... well maybe the people that exploit it.... my bad.

+1 for the math. I thought everyone would know by now that shields > damage mod

I was exaggerating. I meant what I said about barely being able to beat other suits one on one, though. Heavies are now just really slow assaults with no equipment slots and with much higher ISK costs for our gear. That sounds balanced to you? Really?

This thread... I don't even.

I have 100,000,000+ ISK running Proto Logi every week, as for heavies, if you didn't even accumulate at least 30,000,000 ISK in the first few weeks after reset then it's YOU who aren't playing this game properly. To use a heavy suit properly is to flank the enemy at the right time and come out with minimal damage. Heavy users like Ruthra, Specter RND, METRO and some others seem to handle the dropsuit efficiently and take minimal loses so do us a favor and only point out real flaws. So far, the only unusual thing thing that may need a change is the Low Slot amount and a slight increase to CPU/PG to perhaps do more stuff with the dropsuit.

To use a heavy suit properly is to flank the enemy at the right time

The feeling is mutual, but for the sake of SCIENCE! I'll keep it civil and walk you through it.

Your example is a disembodied AR shooting at disembodied shields. You can't equip a damage mod without giving up the slot for something else, like shields.

In game it comes down to your fit + SP + player skill VS his fit + SP + player skill. We'll have to assume SP is equal or else the hypotheticals get out of control. And player skill is most important, but it's also the most highly variable, so we have to factor it out.

For the sake of example let's compare two suits.

Both have:
Assault Vk.1: 225 Shields, 105 Armor base
Duvolle Assault Rifle: 34.1 Damage, 750 RPM, 426.25 DPS
Lows: 1 armor rep of equal quality, 2x 87HP plates

One guy has 4x Complex Damage mods at 1.1x multiplier each, the other has Complex Extenders, at +66 Shield HP each.

Both have max Weaponry, AR Spec, armor, and shield skills. AR does 110% damage to shields, 90% damage to armor.

Damage mod guy final stats:
Shield HP: 281.25
Armor HP: 305.25
DPS: 789.45 (base*1.1 weaponry*1.15 spec*1.1*1.1*1.1*1.1mods)

Shield mod guy final stats:
Shield HP: 545.25
Armor HP: 305.25
DPS: 539.20 (base*1.1 weaponry*1.15 spec)

Damage mod guy kills shield guy in 1.058s.
Shield guy kills damage mod guy in 0.904s.

TLDR: Shield mods win.

While I do think that the proto heavy suit needs a buff to be worth specing into, I don't think that the heavy suit is terribly under powered. It just needs more weapon options. right now it's just the hmg/forge which leaves the heavy lacking options for certain engagements, meaning they die more than they should right now.

Has anyone else wondered why it is that the devs always call the AR the 'light assault rife' (LAR) whenever they mention it? More things are coming, and tears shall be harvested once more.

Let's wait until we've got all the content in play before we insist ccp fine tunes things to the way the BETA is right now.

tl;dr calm your ****, ladies and gentlemen.

So far, the only unusual thing thing that may need a change is the Low Slot amount and a slight increase to CPU/PG to perhaps do more stuff with the dropsuit.

This is basically what we said in this thread apart from the price tag.
However you have to admit that the 245k price tag is ridiculous. Mo matter how much isk you have... It doesn't change the fact that that's too much.

I find it funny people are only now starting to realize this. I've been saying this for months before everyone got better dropsuits. If you played the last build, you would know what was coming down.

Everyone QQ'd so hard about heavies in the start of this build...now? Not a thread in a week or more about heavies being OP. People kept judging heavies based on public games, when they ran into noobs using militia suits. Now people using Advanced or Proto suits, and heavies have officially become the joke of New Eden.

No other suit has a useless Proto suit like the heavies do. The HMG's do little dmg to Proto Assault players who shield tank, or heavies don't live long enough to do dmg...thanks to broken dmg mods that CCP seem to not care to fix. Hey, broken AUR dmg mods = more money.

Now Heavies are becoming more and more useless in battles. Now you'll start seeing more proto logis, and proto assault suits because they are FAR better than the other Proto suits. And people crying for an HMG nerf? Well I'm saying this right now, if they nerf anything more in the Heavy class, then they should just remove it from the game period.

Think I'm wrong? Play as a heavy in a corp match against a good team. Then come back here and tell me your cool story about going 30-0 ... not gonna happen.

The advanced and proto suits need a buff, and price drop for it to even make sense using tbh.

And the cycle is complete. Lol

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=474701#post474701

The proto heavy needs more CPU and more slots. And cost less.

The proto heavy should have more low slots giving it the ability to use armor plates, I mean who uses those anyway? They should take away the speed loss penalty of armor plates and add 2 more low slots to proto heavy, this would give the proto heavysome options. I.e CPU/or pg module, speed mods or armor mods, the fact now is you always are required to use 1 low slot for armor repair, giving you only 1 low slot to play with.

2 extra low slots higher CPU/pg less cost.

Please let this be a joke. Damage mods don't have a stacking penalty and still do worse. If they get a stacking penalty, shield mods should get a stacking penalty as well.

Shield Mods + Armor Mods wins.

I'd just like to point out no one in their right mind would give themselves a 10% reduction in movement for an armor boost when using a suit designed to be mobile and shield-based.

Plus, you invalidate my scenario for being unrealistic when yours is just as much so. You are adding together everything, not just shield extenders, when you are trying to determine the strength of just shield extenders vs damage mods.

Quoting somebody in this thread: "Second, damage mods are broken. They currently give a bonus for stacking them. It is important to understand that damage should be reduced by about 3% - 7% (approximately) "

^ they currently don't have a stacking penalty when they should.

Please let this be a joke. Damage mods don't have a stacking penalty and still do worse. If they get a stacking penalty, shield mods should get a stacking penalty as well.



Thank ya, sir. I'll try to wield that math for the main topic at hand. Not trying to prove anything now, just fuel for the discussion.

Let's take that shield Assault from earlier and have him fight a Heavy. The heavy is using:

Heavy Vk.1: base 320 shields, 422 armor
Boundless HMG: 17.6 damage, 2000RPM, 586.66 DPS
HIs: 3x Complex Shield Extenders
LOWs: Armor Repper and 87HP plate

Shield mod guy final stats:
Shield HP: 545.25
Armor HP: 305.25
DPS: 539.20
AR: 110% Shields, 90% Armor

Heavy final stats:
Shield HP: 598
Armor HP: 614.5
DPS: 742.12
HMG: 95% Shields, 110% Armor

Heavy kills shield guy in 1.14s.
Shield guy kills heavy in 2.27s.

If shield guy fought a Heavy B with only 2 shield extenders?

Heavy B kills shield guy in 1.14s.
Shield guy kills Heavy in 2.16s.


As someone who feels heavies are losing their edge now, I have to say:

ED: As a caveat, once you start comparing different classes, just looking at armor/dps is less and less relevant, but still. At the very least, the two examples above show that Heavy Vk.1 really does not justify the SP/price even remotely.

Heavies arent UP..... they re just way less beast than after a reset and acutally need to be played while using your brain now.

Sorry, I gotta agree with the guy who said basing balance issues off of pub matches is a foolish way to go about things. Especially the 1 v 1 situations. This is a team game. 4447 I would say you shouldn't pull out your good gear unless you have a trusted logi with you. Also, if you are at proto suits already, I am going to guess you are lower in some of the passive skills.

I don't play heavies so maybe the proto suits do need a little help, but you gotta remember that with the other classes shields and armor don't go up with the suits, one only gets more cpu, pg, and slots. Heavies get increased armor or shields as they go up in level.

If heavy players feel this isn't fair, then maybe we should make them like the other classes where shields/armor stay the same and you get increasing slots, pg, and cpu.

People are mentioning how an assault or logi can get armor or shields near a heavy and thats true, but to do so one has to sacrifice damage, recharge rate of armor and/or shields, and speed. That makes it players choice, give heavies the same choices.

4447 I would say you shouldn't pull out your good gear unless you have a trusted logi with you. Also, if you are at proto suits already, I am going to guess you are lower in some of the passive skills. If there isn't a Zion logi to roll with and I'm on I'll run logi for you, I'm pretty good at taking care of my fatties ;)

*** SURPRISE!!!!!! ***

errrrrr...... Oh! It isn't is it? You were playing in CB so you knew this was coming as we've been on the same build for 5 months :)




*boo, hoo*

Assault full proto fit is in the region of 190,000
Assault advanced is 110,000

they lose 3 suits they're losing money.

And I would guess same for most classes -- so what makes the heavy so special that you think it should be affordable for you to run full proto fit 'ALL DAY, EVERY DAY'?

The problem is, you die too much because for the last 2 months you've had it easy against weaker suit's/weapons and less experienced players - YOU had this coming, now GET GOOD!

ADV and Proto are both sh*t compared to every other class, except maybe scout, I'm not sure how you can say that with a straight face.

And for all you guys saying i shoot to far it's called sharpshooter lvl.4 a.d i skilled in it try it .
I can't wait till i hit my proficiency in it lol then we will see tears because i ill be using my assault machine gun less dps but 14hp a bullet all the way to the end .

Why are they **** exactly ? Cause they have less slots and still no equipment ?
Oh damn, that's what heavies are...

The feeling of being UP is from the fact that when the game started everything about heavies was a beast. From the HMG to the type 1 suit. Heavies in What The French dont complain about anything. THey just grab a LogiBro and play as they should.... With backup.

Heavies had the tendency of being all Lonewolfing mowing down people but that is NOT what they should be able to do. They are slow moving dudes that should pretty much be confine to sentinel role, or distraction allowing for other soldiers to use their scary look to get the job done.

Listening to you guys, a heavy should NEVER be able to lose 1vs1 to another kind of suit. YOu're QQing about losing you early god mode... And thus i'm sorry, but a heavy rushing me while i can cover from his HMG deserves to die from eating a nade and then being finished by my GEK. Or what ? he should just live through and insta kill me in any case ?

Another explanation to this so called "Heavies are UP now QQ" is the fact that most you heavies have gone to SHIELD heavies so you can run faster and thought you would become even more godly when in fact, you just shot yourself in the foot as AR\LR do more damage against shield than armor. And then you complain about being taken down too quickly ? LMFAO

Also, i LOL at the "oh my god my HMG is crap" when i still see dudes with type 1 HMG mowing me down in less than 2 sec at 10m.

I really think you just can't stand having weaknesses, and needing actual support and dont wanna bother about dealing with them.

Sorry to sound harsh but it just amazes me how 3 weeks ago you were all "Heavies aint OP get GOOD SCRUB" and now it's all "QQ QQ we so UP, buff us !! gives us equipment and 3 more slots !! nerf AR"

Why are they **** exactly ? Cause they have less slots and still no equipment ?
Oh damn, that's what heavies are...

The feeling of being UP is from the fact that when the game started everything about heavies was a beast. From the HMG to the type 1 suit. Heavies in What The French dont complain about anything. THey just grab a LogiBro and play as they should.... With backup.

Heavies had the tendency of being all Lonewolfing mowing down people but that is NOT what they should be able to do. They are slow moving dudes that should pretty much be confine to sentinel role, or distraction allowing for other soldiers to use their scary look to get the job done.

Listening to you guys, a heavy should NEVER be able to lose 1vs1 to another kind of suit. YOu're QQing about losing you early god mode... And thus i'm sorry, but a heavy rushing me while i can cover from his HMG deserves to die from eating a nade and then being finished by my GEK. Or what ? he should just live through and insta kill me in any case ?

Another explanation to this so called "Heavies are UP now QQ" is the fact that most you heavies have gone to SHIELD heavies so you can run faster and thought you would bec
ome even more godly when in fact, you just shot yourself in the foot as AR\LR do more damage against shield than armor. And then you complain about being taken down too quickly ? LMFAO

Also, i LOL at the "oh my god my HMG is crap" when i still see dudes with type 1 HMG mowing me down in less than 2 sec at 10m.

I really think you just can't stand having weaknesses, and needing actual support and dont wanna bother about dealing with them.

Sorry to sound harsh but it just amazes me how 3 weeks ago you were all "Heavies aint OP get GOOD SCRUB" and now it's all "QQ QQ we so UP, buff us !! gives us equipment and 3 more slots !! nerf AR"

Another explanation to this so called "Heavies are UP now QQ" is the fact that most you heavies have gone to SHIELD heavies so you can run faster and thought you would become even more godly when in fact, you just shot yourself in the foot as AR\LR do more damage against shield than armor. And then you complain about being taken down too quickly ? LMFAO

^^^^

This is hard to believe considering you cry when people use proto gear in pubs

You have to be joking right ?

Heavies still are OP, just because you die more often now, doesn't means that are under-powered. Still takes tactics and team work to kill them, is no way i could kill one by my own, even with the Prototype AR. What you seeing is people working together alot more when they see a heavy, and is great to see. People ignoring other targets, and aiming for the heavy.... I LOVE IT.

You wanted an OP class, now you have became the number 1 target for every one else....poor you.

If you're going to call out other people for being unintelligent, then the least you could do is run some fact-checking.

The AR does hybrid damage, which means it does not deal increased damage to shields.

I take it as a compliment that you target the heavies as first priority. I am glad to hear you are still afraid of us

People are really not getting the argument.

The point is that we can't fight proto classes because it cost to much to fight and we will go bankrupt.

Heavy suits are bad and the fact that proto suits are several times more expensive than the proto assault suits (that are flat out better, lololo complex shield mods) just adds insult to injury. People who think heavies are OP are the ones who run up and stand in front of them at point blank range and wish see who has the biggest stats.

I think you saying that the HMG needs a buff threw a wrench into the cogs right off the start. The community is quite split on that issue atm. Also the fact that you wen't off into a couple tangents instead of sticking to "reduce the price of proto heavies" and that the title of the thread is "heavies are UP" instead of "proto heavies need a price drop" sort of threw off your intent in writing this thread as well. If you meant "proto heavies need a price drop", you should have said "proto heavies need a price drop", given a few points to show your case, and left it at that. It seems the simplest posts are the least likely to derail since this forum is so packed with immature no lifers who only want to troll.

I could of thought of a better argument but next time i will...

I think heavies need a price drop or all other classes need a price increase.

Nah heavies are walking tanks they should have a large cost to them. They shouldnt be something you can spec into and play willy nilly they really are a specialist class. Similar to HAV's they have a high ISK cost because they can do a ton of damage.

That said been saying since the beginning Heavies need a BUFF in SUIT and a RANGE NERF in HMG. Everything else is fine.

The heavy should a BULLET SPONGE that does HIGH DPS IN CQC. Beyond this a heavy should be FAILBOT.


Also look at CB that are CQC maps, an entire squad of heavies can wreck the world. Or better yet 4 heavies. 2 MD and whatever else you want and you will destroy on CQC maps.

If you're going to call out other people for being unintelligent, then the least you could do is run some fact-checking.

The AR does hybrid damage, which means it does not deal increased damage to shields.

Has anyone else wondered why it is that the devs always call the AR the 'light assault rife' (LAR) whenever they mention it? More things are coming, and tears shall be harvested once more.

Jotun, not intending to pick on you man. But the AR does indeed do more damage to shields.

110% damage to shields, 90% damage to armor.

It's easy to check in game. Next time you spawn with an AR next to friendlies, just aim at them. You'll see the efficiency rating is 110%. Takes a bit more work to verify the armor modifier, but keep your eyes open at teammate health in between salvos and you can check it.

Tank turret modifiers are the hardest thing to check at the moment...something about the efficiency display for them is borked so that it usually shows 0%, even if they're tearing up a fool.

In a good scout/assault/logi suit folks come at me with an SMG versus my HMG and I die.

In a scout suit and with an smg and heavies die so for me its looking like MD plus to add salt to the wound an SMG sidearm finisher to make the dead heavy really "happy" about all those sp placed into heavy 3X skills.

Just a few more weeks to run out of heavy suits and I guess begin running nova knifes on my scout fit.

The game has come to be play to win because of the cost of money items to ISK items. I can't compete because of it would cost me more ISK to go Proto and i would go bankrupt. The best i can do is advance and if i loss 3 suits a game i'm losing money.

I would put money into the game but, theres nothing to buy at this point of time...

Coming to my point i've notice that my heavy is becoming less useful in battle. I use to be able to take 2 to 3 people before i die and now it's hopefully one,Now it's not all the time but it is shafting to my heavy being useless.

I want to compete CCP but this game is not letting me.

My next point CCP, The next update is in april and i feel it's to late for me because of the **** ups and the pleasing ever reporter , that your fan base for the game is stasis. CCP you have all these great games out that for ideas and you've used nothing from them and that's a free resource. I feel that your game that you show off in adverts are the future of the game but the future for your game is't this year maybe in 10 years.

HMG needs a buff.

So you can't afford to run Proto Heavy all the time?
Simple solution: Don't use it all the time.

Bring a cheap(er) Heavy suit at the beginning of a match. If it looks like you're going to do well, and having that little bit extra would be an advantage, bring your best gear the next time you spawn in. If you're looking like it's still going to make you a profit and will benefit the team, keep running with it. If you look like you're going to start losing money, stop running the expensive fitting and drop back to a cheaper one. If you've been barely covering costs (or failing to do so), run several matches with only cheap/free gear to effectively grind for ISK and get yourself back on track.

People are really not getting the argument.

The point is that we can't fight proto classes because it cost to much to fight and we will go bankrupt.

how could you die to a SMG

Scout suit "B" complex sidearm damage mods Ishukone SMG killed me in my heavy + HMG suit.
Then in a later match (today) I messaged that player and I ran my new scout "B" suit versus that player running heavy suit plus HMG and the results were the heavy player died to my SMG.

Or hey!!! I have an idea!! YOU run heavy HMG and I run Scout "B" suit plus SMG.(soon to be proto scout).
Then we can have this conversation again.

Sidearm SMG versus HMG
One million SP into SMG VERSUS HMG three X!! three times more!! sp into a heavy weapon!!

Heavy weapons are borderline useless when looking at needed SP required versus other less intensive sp options.

But hey!! try it yourself then come back.

sounds fun,but a B scout SMG killed you sad

okay?

What kind of HEAVY fit are you running??

why do you want to know?

Oh just asking is all.
Hides flux nades........