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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Disturbingly Bored
Universal Allies Inc.
121
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Posted - 2013.03.07 22:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Jotun Hiem wrote:+65% damage (once you add in Weaponry V and Proficiency) is not okay.
On anything.
But +125% shields is?
I used to think the way you do, then I did the math. |
Disturbingly Bored
Universal Allies Inc.
123
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Posted - 2013.03.08 01:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:
I'm not sure that you did do the math.
The feeling is mutual, but for the sake of SCIENCE! I'll keep it civil and walk you through it.
Your example is a disembodied AR shooting at disembodied shields. You can't equip a damage mod without giving up the slot for something else, like shields.
In game it comes down to your fit + SP + player skill VS his fit + SP + player skill. We'll have to assume SP is equal or else the hypotheticals get out of control. And player skill is most important, but it's also the most highly variable, so we have to factor it out.
For the sake of example let's compare two suits.
Both have:
Assault Vk.1: 225 Shields, 105 Armor base
Duvolle Assault Rifle: 34.1 Damage, 750 RPM, 426.25 DPS
Lows: 1 armor rep of equal quality, 2x 87HP plates
One guy has 4x Complex Damage mods at 1.1x multiplier each, the other has Complex Extenders, at +66 Shield HP each.
Both have max Weaponry, AR Spec, armor, and shield skills. AR does 110% damage to shields, 90% damage to armor.
Damage mod guy final stats:
Shield HP: 281.25
Armor HP: 305.25
DPS: 789.45 (base*1.1 weaponry*1.15 spec*1.1*1.1*1.1*1.1mods)
Shield mod guy final stats:
Shield HP: 545.25
Armor HP: 305.25
DPS: 539.20 (base*1.1 weaponry*1.15 spec)
Damage mod guy kills shield guy in 1.058s.
Shield guy kills damage mod guy in 0.904s.
TLDR: Shield mods win. |
Disturbingly Bored
Universal Allies Inc.
125
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 02:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:
But dmg mods have no stacking penalty as they are, therefor they're broken, and have been broken for months now. I don't know why anyone would defend something that's glitched... well maybe the people that exploit it.... my bad.
Please let this be a joke. Damage mods don't have a stacking penalty and still do worse. If they get a stacking penalty, shield mods should get a stacking penalty as well.
DJINN Marauder wrote:+1 for the math. I thought everyone would know by now that shields > damage mod
Thank ya, sir. I'll try to wield that math for the main topic at hand. Not trying to prove anything now, just fuel for the discussion.
Let's take that shield Assault from earlier and have him fight a Heavy. The heavy is using:
Heavy Vk.1: base 320 shields, 422 armor
Boundless HMG: 17.6 damage, 2000RPM, 586.66 DPS
HIs: 3x Complex Shield Extenders
LOWs: Armor Repper and 87HP plate
Shield mod guy final stats:
Shield HP: 545.25
Armor HP: 305.25
DPS: 539.20
AR: 110% Shields, 90% Armor
Heavy final stats:
Shield HP: 598
Armor HP: 614.5
DPS: 742.12
HMG: 95% Shields, 110% Armor
Heavy kills shield guy in 1.14s.
Shield guy kills heavy in 2.27s.
If shield guy fought a Heavy B with only 2 shield extenders?
Heavy B kills shield guy in 1.14s.
Shield guy kills Heavy in 2.16s.
As someone who feels heavies are losing their edge now, I have to say: 
ED: As a caveat, once you start comparing different classes, just looking at armor/dps is less and less relevant, but still. At the very least, the two examples above show that Heavy Vk.1 really does not justify the SP/price even remotely. |
Disturbingly Bored
Universal Allies Inc.
128
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 06:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:Shield Mods + Armor Mods wins.
I'd just like to point out no one in their right mind would give themselves a 10% reduction in movement for an armor boost when using a suit designed to be mobile and shield-based.
Fair enough, let me try to prove your point for you:
Assault Vk.1 4x Damage Mods, no armor mods VS Assault Vk.1 4x Shield Mods, no armor mods.
Damage Vk.1 kills opponent in 0.81s.
Shield Vk.1 kills opponent in 0.74s.
Shield Mods Win.
Quote:Plus, you invalidate my scenario for being unrealistic when yours is just as much so. You are adding together everything, not just shield extenders, when you are trying to determine the strength of just shield extenders vs damage mods.
The problem is that you don't play the game with just a shield extender or just a damage mod. You have to compare the finished product. Math says fitting shield mods, as far as Assault suits are concerned, always wins.
(For Heavies, Damage Mods actually win by 0.02 seconds, which doesn't outweigh the fitting and multiple-attacker survival benefits, IMO.)
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Quoting somebody in this thread: "Second, damage mods are broken. They currently give a bonus for stacking them. It is important to understand that damage should be reduced by about 3% - 7% (approximately) "
^ they currently don't have a stacking penalty when they should.
The point I'm trying to make is that if they ever introduce a stacking penalty for damage mods and not shield extenders, damage mods will be useless 100% of the time. The only reason Damage Mods are competitive against shield extenders is because they are broken.
I imagine the reason this has never been fixed is that the devs have actually done the math and decided against it. |
Disturbingly Bored
Universal Allies Inc.
131
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 16:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jotun Hiem wrote:If you're going to call out other people for being unintelligent, then the least you could do is run some fact-checking.
The AR does hybrid damage, which means it does not deal increased damage to shields.
Jotun, not intending to pick on you man. But the AR does indeed do more damage to shields.
110% damage to shields, 90% damage to armor.
It's easy to check in game. Next time you spawn with an AR next to friendlies, just aim at them. You'll see the efficiency rating is 110%. Takes a bit more work to verify the armor modifier, but keep your eyes open at teammate health in between salvos and you can check it.
Tank turret modifiers are the hardest thing to check at the moment...something about the efficiency display for them is borked so that it usually shows 0%, even if they're tearing up a fool. |
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