This thread... I don't even.

I have 100,000,000+ ISK running Proto Logi every week, as for heavies, if you didn't even accumulate at least 30,000,000 ISK in the first few weeks after reset then it's YOU who aren't playing this game properly. To use a heavy suit properly is to flank the enemy at the right time and come out with minimal damage. Heavy users like Ruthra, Specter RND, METRO and some others seem to handle the dropsuit efficiently and take minimal loses so do us a favor and only point out real flaws. So far, the only unusual thing thing that may need a change is the Low Slot amount and a slight increase to CPU/PG to perhaps do more stuff with the dropsuit.

To use a heavy suit properly is to flank the enemy at the right time

The feeling is mutual, but for the sake of SCIENCE! I'll keep it civil and walk you through it.

Your example is a disembodied AR shooting at disembodied shields. You can't equip a damage mod without giving up the slot for something else, like shields.

In game it comes down to your fit + SP + player skill VS his fit + SP + player skill. We'll have to assume SP is equal or else the hypotheticals get out of control. And player skill is most important, but it's also the most highly variable, so we have to factor it out.

For the sake of example let's compare two suits.

Both have:
Assault Vk.1: 225 Shields, 105 Armor base
Duvolle Assault Rifle: 34.1 Damage, 750 RPM, 426.25 DPS
Lows: 1 armor rep of equal quality, 2x 87HP plates

One guy has 4x Complex Damage mods at 1.1x multiplier each, the other has Complex Extenders, at +66 Shield HP each.

Both have max Weaponry, AR Spec, armor, and shield skills. AR does 110% damage to shields, 90% damage to armor.

Damage mod guy final stats:
Shield HP: 281.25
Armor HP: 305.25
DPS: 789.45 (base*1.1 weaponry*1.15 spec*1.1*1.1*1.1*1.1mods)

Shield mod guy final stats:
Shield HP: 545.25
Armor HP: 305.25
DPS: 539.20 (base*1.1 weaponry*1.15 spec)

Damage mod guy kills shield guy in 1.058s.
Shield guy kills damage mod guy in 0.904s.

TLDR: Shield mods win.

While I do think that the proto heavy suit needs a buff to be worth specing into, I don't think that the heavy suit is terribly under powered. It just needs more weapon options. right now it's just the hmg/forge which leaves the heavy lacking options for certain engagements, meaning they die more than they should right now.

Has anyone else wondered why it is that the devs always call the AR the 'light assault rife' (LAR) whenever they mention it? More things are coming, and tears shall be harvested once more.

Let's wait until we've got all the content in play before we insist ccp fine tunes things to the way the BETA is right now.

tl;dr calm your ****, ladies and gentlemen.

So far, the only unusual thing thing that may need a change is the Low Slot amount and a slight increase to CPU/PG to perhaps do more stuff with the dropsuit.

This is basically what we said in this thread apart from the price tag.
However you have to admit that the 245k price tag is ridiculous. Mo matter how much isk you have... It doesn't change the fact that that's too much.

I find it funny people are only now starting to realize this. I've been saying this for months before everyone got better dropsuits. If you played the last build, you would know what was coming down.

Everyone QQ'd so hard about heavies in the start of this build...now? Not a thread in a week or more about heavies being OP. People kept judging heavies based on public games, when they ran into noobs using militia suits. Now people using Advanced or Proto suits, and heavies have officially become the joke of New Eden.

No other suit has a useless Proto suit like the heavies do. The HMG's do little dmg to Proto Assault players who shield tank, or heavies don't live long enough to do dmg...thanks to broken dmg mods that CCP seem to not care to fix. Hey, broken AUR dmg mods = more money.

Now Heavies are becoming more and more useless in battles. Now you'll start seeing more proto logis, and proto assault suits because they are FAR better than the other Proto suits. And people crying for an HMG nerf? Well I'm saying this right now, if they nerf anything more in the Heavy class, then they should just remove it from the game period.

Think I'm wrong? Play as a heavy in a corp match against a good team. Then come back here and tell me your cool story about going 30-0 ... not gonna happen.

The advanced and proto suits need a buff, and price drop for it to even make sense using tbh.

And the cycle is complete. Lol

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=474701#post474701

The proto heavy needs more CPU and more slots. And cost less.

The proto heavy should have more low slots giving it the ability to use armor plates, I mean who uses those anyway? They should take away the speed loss penalty of armor plates and add 2 more low slots to proto heavy, this would give the proto heavysome options. I.e CPU/or pg module, speed mods or armor mods, the fact now is you always are required to use 1 low slot for armor repair, giving you only 1 low slot to play with.

2 extra low slots higher CPU/pg less cost.

Please let this be a joke. Damage mods don't have a stacking penalty and still do worse. If they get a stacking penalty, shield mods should get a stacking penalty as well.

Shield Mods + Armor Mods wins.

I'd just like to point out no one in their right mind would give themselves a 10% reduction in movement for an armor boost when using a suit designed to be mobile and shield-based.

Plus, you invalidate my scenario for being unrealistic when yours is just as much so. You are adding together everything, not just shield extenders, when you are trying to determine the strength of just shield extenders vs damage mods.

Quoting somebody in this thread: "Second, damage mods are broken. They currently give a bonus for stacking them. It is important to understand that damage should be reduced by about 3% - 7% (approximately) "

^ they currently don't have a stacking penalty when they should.

Please let this be a joke. Damage mods don't have a stacking penalty and still do worse. If they get a stacking penalty, shield mods should get a stacking penalty as well.



Thank ya, sir. I'll try to wield that math for the main topic at hand. Not trying to prove anything now, just fuel for the discussion.

Let's take that shield Assault from earlier and have him fight a Heavy. The heavy is using:

Heavy Vk.1: base 320 shields, 422 armor
Boundless HMG: 17.6 damage, 2000RPM, 586.66 DPS
HIs: 3x Complex Shield Extenders
LOWs: Armor Repper and 87HP plate

Shield mod guy final stats:
Shield HP: 545.25
Armor HP: 305.25
DPS: 539.20
AR: 110% Shields, 90% Armor

Heavy final stats:
Shield HP: 598
Armor HP: 614.5
DPS: 742.12
HMG: 95% Shields, 110% Armor

Heavy kills shield guy in 1.14s.
Shield guy kills heavy in 2.27s.

If shield guy fought a Heavy B with only 2 shield extenders?

Heavy B kills shield guy in 1.14s.
Shield guy kills Heavy in 2.16s.


As someone who feels heavies are losing their edge now, I have to say:

ED: As a caveat, once you start comparing different classes, just looking at armor/dps is less and less relevant, but still. At the very least, the two examples above show that Heavy Vk.1 really does not justify the SP/price even remotely.

Heavies arent UP..... they re just way less beast than after a reset and acutally need to be played while using your brain now.

Sorry, I gotta agree with the guy who said basing balance issues off of pub matches is a foolish way to go about things. Especially the 1 v 1 situations. This is a team game. 4447 I would say you shouldn't pull out your good gear unless you have a trusted logi with you. Also, if you are at proto suits already, I am going to guess you are lower in some of the passive skills.

I don't play heavies so maybe the proto suits do need a little help, but you gotta remember that with the other classes shields and armor don't go up with the suits, one only gets more cpu, pg, and slots. Heavies get increased armor or shields as they go up in level.

If heavy players feel this isn't fair, then maybe we should make them like the other classes where shields/armor stay the same and you get increasing slots, pg, and cpu.

People are mentioning how an assault or logi can get armor or shields near a heavy and thats true, but to do so one has to sacrifice damage, recharge rate of armor and/or shields, and speed. That makes it players choice, give heavies the same choices.

4447 I would say you shouldn't pull out your good gear unless you have a trusted logi with you. Also, if you are at proto suits already, I am going to guess you are lower in some of the passive skills. If there isn't a Zion logi to roll with and I'm on I'll run logi for you, I'm pretty good at taking care of my fatties ;)

*** SURPRISE!!!!!! ***

errrrrr...... Oh! It isn't is it? You were playing in CB so you knew this was coming as we've been on the same build for 5 months :)




*boo, hoo*

Assault full proto fit is in the region of 190,000
Assault advanced is 110,000

they lose 3 suits they're losing money.

And I would guess same for most classes -- so what makes the heavy so special that you think it should be affordable for you to run full proto fit 'ALL DAY, EVERY DAY'?

The problem is, you die too much because for the last 2 months you've had it easy against weaker suit's/weapons and less experienced players - YOU had this coming, now GET GOOD!

ADV and Proto are both sh*t compared to every other class, except maybe scout, I'm not sure how you can say that with a straight face.

And for all you guys saying i shoot to far it's called sharpshooter lvl.4 a.d i skilled in it try it .
I can't wait till i hit my proficiency in it lol then we will see tears because i ill be using my assault machine gun less dps but 14hp a bullet all the way to the end .

Why are they **** exactly ? Cause they have less slots and still no equipment ?
Oh damn, that's what heavies are...

The feeling of being UP is from the fact that when the game started everything about heavies was a beast. From the HMG to the type 1 suit. Heavies in What The French dont complain about anything. THey just grab a LogiBro and play as they should.... With backup.

Heavies had the tendency of being all Lonewolfing mowing down people but that is NOT what they should be able to do. They are slow moving dudes that should pretty much be confine to sentinel role, or distraction allowing for other soldiers to use their scary look to get the job done.

Listening to you guys, a heavy should NEVER be able to lose 1vs1 to another kind of suit. YOu're QQing about losing you early god mode... And thus i'm sorry, but a heavy rushing me while i can cover from his HMG deserves to die from eating a nade and then being finished by my GEK. Or what ? he should just live through and insta kill me in any case ?

Another explanation to this so called "Heavies are UP now QQ" is the fact that most you heavies have gone to SHIELD heavies so you can run faster and thought you would become even more godly when in fact, you just shot yourself in the foot as AR\LR do more damage against shield than armor. And then you complain about being taken down too quickly ? LMFAO

Also, i LOL at the "oh my god my HMG is crap" when i still see dudes with type 1 HMG mowing me down in less than 2 sec at 10m.

I really think you just can't stand having weaknesses, and needing actual support and dont wanna bother about dealing with them.

Sorry to sound harsh but it just amazes me how 3 weeks ago you were all "Heavies aint OP get GOOD SCRUB" and now it's all "QQ QQ we so UP, buff us !! gives us equipment and 3 more slots !! nerf AR"

Why are they **** exactly ? Cause they have less slots and still no equipment ?
Oh damn, that's what heavies are...

The feeling of being UP is from the fact that when the game started everything about heavies was a beast. From the HMG to the type 1 suit. Heavies in What The French dont complain about anything. THey just grab a LogiBro and play as they should.... With backup.

Heavies had the tendency of being all Lonewolfing mowing down people but that is NOT what they should be able to do. They are slow moving dudes that should pretty much be confine to sentinel role, or distraction allowing for other soldiers to use their scary look to get the job done.

Listening to you guys, a heavy should NEVER be able to lose 1vs1 to another kind of suit. YOu're QQing about losing you early god mode... And thus i'm sorry, but a heavy rushing me while i can cover from his HMG deserves to die from eating a nade and then being finished by my GEK. Or what ? he should just live through and insta kill me in any case ?

Another explanation to this so called "Heavies are UP now QQ" is the fact that most you heavies have gone to SHIELD heavies so you can run faster and thought you would bec
ome even more godly when in fact, you just shot yourself in the foot as AR\LR do more damage against shield than armor. And then you complain about being taken down too quickly ? LMFAO

Also, i LOL at the "oh my god my HMG is crap" when i still see dudes with type 1 HMG mowing me down in less than 2 sec at 10m.

I really think you just can't stand having weaknesses, and needing actual support and dont wanna bother about dealing with them.

Sorry to sound harsh but it just amazes me how 3 weeks ago you were all "Heavies aint OP get GOOD SCRUB" and now it's all "QQ QQ we so UP, buff us !! gives us equipment and 3 more slots !! nerf AR"

Another explanation to this so called "Heavies are UP now QQ" is the fact that most you heavies have gone to SHIELD heavies so you can run faster and thought you would become even more godly when in fact, you just shot yourself in the foot as AR\LR do more damage against shield than armor. And then you complain about being taken down too quickly ? LMFAO

^^^^

This is hard to believe considering you cry when people use proto gear in pubs