This wouldn't solve anything. If the enemy is behind the redline or 1 cm away from the red line, how much more likely are you to be able to kill them? Moving snipers onto the actual battlefield and off the mountains way off to the side or behind the lines can be done, as the other guy said, through making sniping take skill, and making long shots harder than close shots.

The game should not ever revolve around snipers. The fact that the "job" of a sniper can ever be to cause the amount of damage they can is evidence of the fact that they're not in-line with other methods of playing. The fact that I, as a sniper, can kill 4 or 5 people as they move from one objective to another and necessarily cross open ground to get there is absurd.

Planetside 2 is exactly where Dust needs to be, and the fact that most snipers can't accept that only illuminates the kind of sense of entitlement sniper players currently have. Sniping is by far the safest, most powerful, least demanding way to play this game. Its power is unmatched, the ease of use for sniper rifles is unmatched, and the ISK/SP required to be dominant is minimal. Even a militia sniper rifle with militia everything else will allow a totally new player to two-shot people from across the map. Any sniper who knows what they're doing can shut down entire avenues of approach, all on their own, with nothing the enemy can realistically hope to do aside from something suicidal which may buy them a minute of reprieve at best. That is unacceptable. Dust will never gain the kind of traction it needs to so long as ****** methods of play like spamming grenades or being a sniper remain as imbalanced as they are.

Boo hoo hoo. Mommy, I got shot whilst playing an FPS. Thats not fair!

Are you sure you're playing the right genre?

I have never had trouble countersniping anyone who was not behind the redline. Even there I can usually do so effectively, although I was better before the reset- I'm still training my skills back up.

Behind the redline, though, they are sometimes so far away that it is nigh impossible to find them. Bring them into the main battlefield and chances are that someone on your team will look at them, even inadvertently, and blow their cover.

You write as if this game should revolve around Assaults with ARs running straight up to people and gunning away. Maybe that's not what you mean, but that's how this comes across.

Snipers ARE supposed to be able to kill 4 or 5 people running through the open when their teamwork sucks.

Someone on that team should be countersniping. Someone should be communicating (I just got nailed by a sniper on my left as I headed towards Objective A from B.).

Grenade spamming? Again with the "running up to things with an AR" issue. Sure, I do it too, but I at least know I'm being dumb when I do.

Grenade spamming is not a bug, it is exactly what should happen to players who want to run straight up while blazing away.

I think bullets/nades/etc. are OP!

I demand a hotfix!

It should revolve around the people who are actually on the ground, in the middle of the fight, engaging people and themselves being engaged. Infantry of any weapon type or dropsuit type, vehicles, and so on. Snipers are not active participants in the game. They are alone, not interacting with anyone in a meaningful way, and are only apparent to themselves via counter-sniping, and to the people whom they shoot and injure/kill at random periods. As the OP's video points out, they aren't creating any fun gameplay themselves.

They aren't "supposed" to do anything. All they should be doing is what makes gameplay fun. Four people in a squad hitting an objective, getting killed in seconds by one person when they person gets a bit lucky and doesn't miss any shots, with no way to defend themselves against that person, is not fun gameplay.

I assume all you do is snipe considering your defence of snipers in total disregard of logic, so you should know that "someone should be counter-sniping" is a meaningless statement. There could be 10 people on the enemy team counter-sniping for that one squad advancing, but some sniper vantage points are totally safe from enemy snipers unless those snipers are in specific areas, relatively far afield.

So that would be a yes, you think the game revolves around Assaults. Okay.

Um... I'm not here to make your gameplay "fun". I'm playing to challenge your ability and have you challenge mine. By that, I'm talking not just about run-and-gun, but tactics, teamwork, stealth, all of the above and more.

No, actually I spend about two-thirds of my time running logistics, scout, and swarm.

The difference here is that I don't QQ about it- I suit up as a sniper and take them out.

The difference here is that I don't QQ about it- I suit up as a sniper and take them out. If I can't find them and take them out, it's either because they're good (even then I usually get them after a few mistakes) or because they are playing the redline for all it's worth. I have yet to encounter a totally safe sniper vantage point that is not behind the redline.

omg i see post about this all the time its simpel counter snipe and if you cant do that get a lav and drive too somewhere near them get out and kill them these are thing you can do.

This just isn't the point. It doesn't matter if you can get them. It doesn't matter if they are or are not OP. The point is that snipers are no fun in the game for anyone but themselves. I don't mind dying in an assault fight, or against most any other weapon, even grenade or tank (at least, current tanks - tanks a couple of builds back or whenever were just plain annoying). It's all part of the battle, and I can learn the weaknesses of the role I'm playing and try to maximise my chances of surviving by playing smart.

But snipers can't be spotted with any kind of ease. You're running along, and then you're dead. Sometimes you have to cross that open space.

Maybe you'll notice the direction the damage came from. So what can you do if you want to stop it? You *have* to suit up as a sniper and shut them down for a minute, or *have* to run up behind them and kill them - take precious minutes out of your game fighting for objectives, to get a minute of reprieve. They're just plain annoying, and not fun. After an assault rifle fight you might think, "yeah, he outplayed me". After a sniper rifle death you'll never think that. You'll just think, "Hey, I was alive, and now I'm dead. Yay!"

Where's the fun? Oh right. For the sniper.

This just isn't the point. It doesn't matter if you can get them. It doesn't matter if they are or are not OP. The point is that snipers are no fun in the game for anyone but themselves. I don't mind dying in an assault fight, or against most any other weapon, even grenade or tank (at least, current tanks - tanks a couple of builds back or whenever were just plain annoying).

[quote=Winsaucerer]If anyone has played World Of Tanks, the same 'issues' are said about artillery there too. However, the more you play the more you will understand that avoiding snipers isn't that hard.

I enjoy complex, multifaceted games that require me to constantly change what I'm doing. I like Dust pretty much the way it is. I plan to keep playing it unless they try to make it too much like most other FPS games.

I'm in Dust for a larger, complicated, full battlefield game. That includes snipers as part of the mix.

I don't go posting about how Precision Strikes are overpowered and how only unskilled players use them. I'm not posting threads asking CCP to nerf HAVs because I can't kill them with an AR. After all, why should someone have to clone up in an AV fitting that takes away from their ability to engage in a run-and-gun squad fight?

I enjoy complex, multifaceted games that require me to constantly change what I'm doing.

sniping isn't unbalanced at all

The role of a sniper first is info for squad, second keeping squad mates alive, third watching objectives, and finally getting your kills. A good sniper works for the team not for the k/d. If you understand the maps well enough and have good teamwork no single sniper can cause you too much trouble and if they do it is worth the ob.

I still disagree and am just as unlikely to change my viewpoint as you are.

Take a look at EVE- "Disco Domis" and other "suicide ganking" techniques annoy the HOLY SNOT out of a lot of players.

CCP should take notes from BF3.

[quote=ArMaGeDoN The Cat]As a result, shooting people in that game as a sniper required anticipating their movement, to put the reticule in the right spot and have them run to it, as well as the travel time of the bullet you fired. What's more, no hits were one-shot-kills on infantry. And the gun was a single shot thing that required a reload every time. Sniping therefore became a support weapon that'd help suppress/soften up enemy infantry, rather than a gun that people could use to wipe out the enemy team from across the map.

That's much more along the lines of how sniping should be in Dust. Require skill, provide far fewer kills than it does currently, and be more about suppression and supporting your infantry than about annihilating entire groups of enemies without breaking a sweat.

I do not agree with this at all. By nature a sniper rifle should be a one hit one kill weapon. They are high powered rifles, that their only purpose is to kill someone from a great distance. I always had a problem with games where the sniper rifles weren't on hit one kill. If I shoot you in the leg with a 50 caliber sniper rifle, how long do you think it'd take you to bleed out? Not very long truthfully.

There is no "should be". It's a game. The only "should be" is that it should be fun. Being one-hit-killed from 500 m wouldn't be fun. I know, because a couple builds ago it was easy to do just that as a sniper against most non-heavies with simple body shots. That is not good gameplay, and any attempt at realistic justification you may try is totally irrelevant.

I still disagree and am just as unlikely to change my viewpoint as you are.

I suspect that CCP agrees that snipers, annoying as they are, are part of the game.

We've established that we are looking for different things in the game. Clearly, here are other people who disagree with you.

It's time to let this thread die.

Take a look at EVE- "Disco Domis" and other "suicide ganking" techniques annoy the HOLY SNOT out of a lot of players. It is not unheard of for miners in high-security space to lose ships worth several hundred million ISK to a ship that cost less than a single hundred million. Until recently, it was even possible for the suicide ganker to get most of their loss reimbursed by insurance.

CCP's sole concession, after YEARS of QQ, was to stop giving insurance reimbursements.

You continue to argue as if your definition of "fun", is, well... definitive.

You probably mean to use the word "subjective", not "definitive". If it were a definitive definition, you wouldn't be suggesting I'm wrong.