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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Vaerana Myshtana
ScIdama Endless Renaissance
203
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Posted - 2013.01.17 13:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Realistically, the best solution I've heard to this is nerfing the rewards for actions initiated behind the redline.
This would encourage snipers to hang out where you can get at them.
Of course, it would also require that people have a really good idea of where their team's redline (vs. the hard redline) is. Once the maps start changing more, this could be really hard to know.
However, for the most part, I have to agree with the people telling the OP to HTFU. |
Vaerana Myshtana
ScIdama Endless Renaissance
203
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 18:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm going to take this chunks because there are too many quotes:
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:Vaerana Myshtana wrote:Realistically, the best solution I've heard to this is nerfing the rewards for actions initiated behind the redline. This wouldn't solve anything. If the enemy is behind the redline or 1 cm away from the red line, how much more likely are you to be able to kill them? Moving snipers onto the actual battlefield and off the mountains way off to the side or behind the lines can be done, as the other guy said, through making sniping take skill, and making long shots harder than close shots.
I have never had trouble countersniping anyone who was not behind the redline. Even there I can usually do so effectively, although I was better before the reset- I'm still training my skills back up.
Behind the redline, though, they are sometimes so far away that it is nigh impossible to find them. Bring them into the main battlefield and chances are that someone on your team will look at them, even inadvertently, and blow their cover. |
Vaerana Myshtana
ScIdama Endless Renaissance
203
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 18:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:And if a team's snipers are destroying your team, then they're doing their jobs, and your team isn't countering them effectively. The game should not ever revolve around snipers. The fact that the "job" of a sniper can ever be to cause the amount of damage they can is evidence of the fact that they're not in-line with other methods of playing. The fact that I, as a sniper, can kill 4 or 5 people as they move from one objective to another and necessarily cross open ground to get there is absurd.
You write as if this game should revolve around Assaults with ARs running straight up to people and gunning away. Maybe that's not what you mean, but that's how this comes across.
Snipers ARE supposed to be able to kill 4 or 5 people running through the open when their teamwork sucks. Someone on that team should be countersniping. Someone should be communicating (I just got nailed by a sniper on my left as I headed towards Objective A from B.).
Snipers are only wildly effective in the absence of intelligence. I can tell, very quickly, whether I'm sniping a smart team or a dumb one based on my KD ratio for the match. |
Vaerana Myshtana
ScIdama Endless Renaissance
203
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 18:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:trollsroyce wrote:Planetside 2 sniping is very situational and mostly meaningless as well. Planetside 2 is exactly where Dust needs to be, and the fact that most snipers can't accept that only illuminates the kind of sense of entitlement sniper players currently have. Sniping is by far the safest, most powerful, least demanding way to play this game. Its power is unmatched, the ease of use for sniper rifles is unmatched, and the ISK/SP required to be dominant is minimal. Even a militia sniper rifle with militia everything else will allow a totally new player to two-shot people from across the map. Any sniper who knows what they're doing can shut down entire avenues of approach, all on their own, with nothing the enemy can realistically hope to do aside from something suicidal which may buy them a minute of reprieve at best. That is unacceptable. Dust will never gain the kind of traction it needs to so long as ****** methods of play like spamming grenades or being a sniper remain as imbalanced as they are.
Grenade spamming? Again with the "running up to things with an AR" issue. Sure, I do it too, but I at least know I'm being dumb when I do.
Grenade spamming is not a bug, it is exactly what should happen to players who want to run straight up while blazing away. |
Vaerana Myshtana
ScIdama Endless Renaissance
203
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 18:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Deveshi wrote:Boo hoo hoo. Mommy, I got shot whilst playing an FPS. Thats not fair!
Are you sure you're playing the right genre?
I think bullets/nades/etc. are OP!
I demand a hotfix! |
Vaerana Myshtana
ScIdama Endless Renaissance
203
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 19:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:Vaerana Myshtana wrote:You write as if this game should revolve around Assaults with ARs running straight up to people and gunning away. Maybe that's not what you mean, but that's how this comes across. It should revolve around the people who are actually on the ground, in the middle of the fight, engaging people and themselves being engaged. Infantry of any weapon type or dropsuit type, vehicles, and so on. Snipers are not active participants in the game. They are alone, not interacting with anyone in a meaningful way, and are only apparent to themselves via counter-sniping, and to the people whom they shoot and injure/kill at random periods. As the OP's video points out, they aren't creating any fun gameplay themselves.
So that would be a yes, you think the game revolves around Assaults. Okay.
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:Quote:Snipers ARE supposed to be able to kill 4 or 5 people running through the open when their teamwork sucks.
Someone on that team should be countersniping. Someone should be communicating (I just got nailed by a sniper on my left as I headed towards Objective A from B.). They aren't "supposed" to do anything. All they should be doing is what makes gameplay fun. Four people in a squad hitting an objective, getting killed in seconds by one person when they person gets a bit lucky and doesn't miss any shots, with no way to defend themselves against that person, is not fun gameplay. I assume all you do is snipe considering your defence of snipers in total disregard of logic, so you should know that "someone should be counter-sniping" is a meaningless statement. There could be 10 people on the enemy team counter-sniping for that one squad advancing, but some sniper vantage points are totally safe from enemy snipers unless those snipers are in specific areas, relatively far afield.
Um... I'm not here to make your gameplay "fun". I'm playing to challenge your ability and have you challenge mine. By that, I'm talking not just about run-and-gun, but tactics, teamwork, stealth, all of the above and more.
No, actually I spend about two-thirds of my time running logistics, scout, and swarm.
I have been popped in the head while charging objectives more times than I can count.
The difference here is that I don't QQ about it- I suit up as a sniper and take them out. If I can't find them and take them out, it's either because they're good (even then I usually get them after a few mistakes) or because they are playing the redline for all it's worth. I have yet to encounter a totally safe sniper vantage point that is not behind the redline.
Are there battles I snipe a lot in? Sure, but I'm more interested in winning battles than popping heads. I usually snipe when it looks like my team's got things covered (or are totally blowing it and I can't fix it). As a result, I'm about as likely to be throwing drop uplinks so my teammates can advance out of sight of enemy snipers as I am to be staring down a scope. |
Vaerana Myshtana
ScIdama Endless Renaissance
203
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 01:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Winsaucerer wrote:This just isn't the point. It doesn't matter if you can get them. It doesn't matter if they are or are not OP. The point is that snipers are no fun in the game for anyone but themselves. I don't mind dying in an assault fight, or against most any other weapon, even grenade or tank (at least, current tanks - tanks a couple of builds back or whenever were just plain annoying).
Okay, so you like the close combat gun game and snipers annoy you. Fair enough.
I disagree.
I'm in Dust for a larger, complicated, full battlefield game. That includes snipers as part of the mix.
I personally find getting nuked by HAVs and Precision Strikes annoying, but I can acknowledge that they are part of the game and take my lumps and move on.
I don't go posting about how Precision Strikes are overpowered and how only unskilled players use them. I'm not posting threads asking CCP to nerf HAVs because I can't kill them with an AR. After all, why should someone have to clone up in an AV fitting that takes away from their ability to engage in a run-and-gun squad fight?
I enjoy complex, multifaceted games that require me to constantly change what I'm doing. I like Dust pretty much the way it is. I plan to keep playing it unless they try to make it too much like most other FPS games.
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Vaerana Myshtana
ScIdama Endless Renaissance
203
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 14:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
I understand that there are plenty of people who dislike long-range snipers and feel that they distract from their enjoyment of the game.
I still disagree and am just as unlikely to change my viewpoint as you are.
I suspect that CCP agrees that snipers, annoying as they are, are part of the game.
Take a look at EVE- "Disco Domis" and other "suicide ganking" techniques annoy the HOLY SNOT out of a lot of players. It is not unheard of for miners in high-security space to lose ships worth several hundred million ISK to a ship that cost less than a single hundred million. Until recently, it was even possible for the suicide ganker to get most of their loss reimbursed by insurance.
CCP's sole concession, after YEARS of QQ, was to stop giving insurance reimbursements.
I have already said that I agree that snipers should feel pressure to move out of their team redzone and onto the battlefield proper. I referenced someone else's suggestion to reduce rewards as a possible technique. I'm perfectly happy to consider other options that force snipers into the main play area.
I am not in support of any other nerfs to snipers. They are as much a part of the game as every other part of the game. Just as those darned Disco Domis are a part of EVE. |
Vaerana Myshtana
ScIdama Endless Renaissance
203
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 21:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:There is no "should be". It's a game. The only "should be" is that it should be fun. Being one-hit-killed from 500 m wouldn't be fun. I know, because a couple builds ago it was easy to do just that as a sniper against most non-heavies with simple body shots. That is not good gameplay, and any attempt at realistic justification you may try is totally irrelevant.
You continue to argue as if your definition of "fun", is, well... definitive.
We've established that we are looking for different things in the game. Clearly, here are other people who disagree with you.
It's time to let this thread die. |
Vaerana Myshtana
ScIdama Endless Renaissance
203
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 05:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
3nder Wigg1n wrote:For me, sniping is the way I can be the most successful, and economical soldier possible, while at the same time helping my team as much as I can. The way I see it, my role is to deplete the enemy's clone supply, and cover whatever objectives I can. Plus I keep enemy snipers off my team by being constantly aware of common sniping spots. If you're being sniped a lot, it is entirely your own fault. The majority of the kills I get are from enemy players making mistakes. The good players are the ones I almost never see, because they know the sightlines, and they never stay still. And don't think you're safe because your in an lav or dropship, I've sniped people out of both
And you're pretty darn good at it.
I know I've played the duck and aim game with you before. |
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Vaerana Myshtana
ScIdama Endless Renaissance
203
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 14:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:You can get pretty similar KDR to tank users as a sniper, except you can run a militia sniper setup for free, while tanks cost at least 100k at their crappiest.
Only if you're good and the other team isn't. |
Vaerana Myshtana
ScIdama Endless Renaissance
203
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 13:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:First off... Ballistics added? Really? You do realize that the round from sniper rifles are, as per the description, traveling at over 8000m/sec, or 5.44 miles per second. At the ranges they are used at, there won't be any noticeable travel time or ballistic drop.
Yeah, I did out the math in another thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=506214#post506214
The bullet drop at maximum range was around a quarter of a meter at 1km. Given that I can sometimes hit enemy snipers behind cover at extreme range by aiming just above their heads, there may actually be bullet drop.
I keep seeing people say that it's a hitscan weapon, but I'm not sure if there is an official source for that. Realistically, the numbers do come out suggesting that a very, VERY fast projectile would feel that way even if there is travel time. I mean, the travel time at 1km is somewhere between 1 and 2 tenths of a second.
Heck, I have to lead moving targets just because it takes me longer than that to hit the button.
I would very much love to hear from the devs about the mechanics involved in their implementation. That might clear up some confusion for all us. |
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