For the 900th time, ive got yet another solution to fix the imbalance. We all know the issue, infantry is too effective with av and vehicles arnt effective enough with anti infantry. Infantry in able to use peek a book tactics and hide behind obstacle. Vehicle have to attempt to run or hide. But even when you do hide the missles track you behind cover and hit you at a 90 degree angle literally.

So to offset this severe disadvantage i propose a very simple solution. Make the swarm launchers a heavy weapon to hinder movement slightly. We have heavy militia suits already, just equip it with a standard scrambler and other basic militia type stuff and there you go. Now they cant ninja everywhere. They'll even have more h.p, and any AV weapon should be classified heavy anyway.

Im not saying the swarm launchers are over powered, theyre not. They are just far too effective and imbalanced. I am merely trying to balance the game out. Makes sense to me that they are listed as heavy anyway, damn things look heavy enough.

Im seeing a reading comprehension issue.

Am I the only person who thinks it fine now. Badly built tanks get spanked and will built ones dominated and need teamwork to take down which is how it should be

meh lock on weapons are easy mode
especially when u can acquire locks behind cover and poke out and fire and get back in

Noc made a nice post in the feedback section on how swarms should be re-designed to take some skill cuz right now its ez it does most of the work for u

especially when u can acquire locks behind cover and poke out and fire and get back in

Can someone tell me where this myth started ... Swarm Launchers CANNOT aquire locks without line of sight.

From the vehicles perspective it might seem like it does ... but the SL is a shoulder mounted weapon so you might only see the head of the user over a wall or hill, but he has line of sight from cover ... in my experience you are much more exposed than that before you can see over the hill and start aquiring a lock.

If you think lock on weapons are easy mode ... then give me the same weapon direct fire but you'd have to double or quadruple the velocity of the missiles or it would never hit anything ... you'd see them coming and have time to make a brew before deciding which direction to go to avoid them.

Have you even tried using them against anything other than a militia LAV ? Next time there's a HAV on the field ... YOU get a swarm out and hunt it till it's dead ... see how "easy mode" you think it is then.

Can someone tell me where this myth started ... Swarm Launchers CANNOT aquire locks without line of sight.

From the vehicles perspective it might seem like it does ... but the SL is a shoulder mounted weapon so you might only see the head of the user over a wall or hill, but he has line of sight from cover ... in my experience you are much more exposed than that before you can see over the hill and start aquiring a lock.

If you think lock on weapons are easy mode ... then give me the same weapon direct fire but you'd have to double or quadruple the velocity of the missiles or it would never hit anything ... you'd see them coming and have time to make a brew before deciding which direction to go to avoid them.

Have you even tried using them against anything other than a militia LAV ? Next time there's a HAV on the field ... YOU get a swarm out and hunt it till it's dead ... see how "easy mode" you think it is then.

and vehicles arnt effective enough with anti infantry

This.

You tankers need to stop whining.

lolwhining

i will give FGers props because they actually need to aim and get in position to get a shot off
Swarms take 0 skill just fire and forget
and it def can lock onto u through cover because i do it as well

swarms are perfect!
DONT MESS WITH THEM!!
if there was a somethin like a smoke screen or flare that tanks could use to FLEE from me that would be acceptable...
i suppose...

Iv advanced swarms with 3 complex damage mods on an assault type B suit.. That's enough sp to do whatever i want.

OK great. Let us know about it. I can sure lock from behind covers, all you have to do is find and edge of the cover and keep any corner of the locking screen slightly outside the cover, press and hold R1 and then play peek a boo

So you are admitting, right here, that you cannot lock a target while completely behind cover? You are admitting that some part of the targeting box has to be on the target, correct? That is the way its supposed to be. Get over it already.

Here's a couple of ideas to balance the Swarm Launcher for you to debate ...

1. Buff your HAVs hit points but give the AV weapons a personal shield booster ... increasing your dropsuit shields when that weapon is equipped ... this would need balancing between the forge and swarm for the heavy and assault classes, very carefully because the heavy can use the swarm if you give the swarm a larger shield bonus ... maybe the forge doesn't need it ... I don't know, I don't use it.

Or ...

2. Allow the Swarms to be blind fired again like they used to, but give the missiles an activation range of 5m+ so we don't go back to the SUPER shotgun days of old ... giving it an anti infantry use like the forge has.

Thoughts ... opinions ... other ideas ...

1. We have the same problem running swarms ... armor plates slow us down too which means we're easy pickings for other infantry. I certainly have noticed the difference in speed ... it's one of the reasons I switched from my maxed Surya to Swarms half way through E3, Surya was too slow against Sagaris and too weak when there was only 1 viable fitting, top rep, top plate and enough pg mods to fit them, I did have some success stacking the resistance mods but not much use at the time. I'd have gone to Forge but heavy suit isn't for me.

2. Yeah but there's the balance against infantry to be considered aswell ... Forge may have to expose himself to the vehicle but can stand a pounding from it or infantry and deal serious damage to infantry aswell ... Swarm cannot, he has to run and hide and use cover ... he is near useless against infantry but his use of cover works against vehicles and infantry.

You know what I think could be a major factor in this debate ... the fact that dropships aren't much use these days ... they used to be a nuisance to a swarm user cos they could survive a few hits, easily spot the launcher, get to him and take him out with missiles ... maybe there's the solution to all this ... make dropships effective again !

For the 900th time, ive got yet another solution to fix the imbalance. We all know the issue, infantry is too effective with av and vehicles arnt effective enough with anti infantry. Infantry in able to use peek a book tactics and hide behind obstacle. Vehicle have to attempt to run or hide. But even when you do hide the missles track you behind cover and hit you at a 90 degree angle literally.

So to offset this severe disadvantage i propose a very simple solution. Make the swarm launchers a heavy weapon to hinder movement slightly. We have heavy militia suits already, just equip it with a standard scrambler and other basic militia type stuff and there you go. Now they cant ninja everywhere. They'll even have more h.p, and any AV weapon should be classified heavy anyway.

Im not saying the swarm launchers are over powered, theyre not. They are just far too effective and imbalanced. I am merely trying to balance the game out. Makes sense to me that they are listed as heavy anyway, damn things look heavy enough.

If you dont know what i'm talking about then dont comment, atleast read what i said and all the other players have said before acting all smart. If you want to be ignorant and in denial then thats your choice. We have been testing the swarm for quite sometime now, and trust me its very easy to lock on from behind the covers without the tanker getting any chance to defend. All the tanker can do is shoot at the damn 2 feet rock that can easily protect the SL user. I run a Type I AR suit + Scattermind swarm + AV gerandes and i can easily make a Surya run. SO you wanna tell me thats balanced?

If thats the way its supposed to be, then so be it. Some people need the handicap. No matter how much i hate it, i will still keep trying to balance this unbalanced weapon in my own way. Not butthurt or anything. If they dont fix it or tweak it, i dont care. Not scared to loose tanks to cheap shots. I can afford it.

For the 900th time, ive got yet another solution to fix the imbalance. We all know the issue, infantry is too effective with av and vehicles arnt effective enough with anti infantry. Infantry in able to use peek a book tactics and hide behind obstacle. Vehicle have to attempt to run or hide. But even when you do hide the missles track you behind cover and hit you at a 90 degree angle literally.

So to offset this severe disadvantage i propose a very simple solution. Make the swarm launchers a heavy weapon to hinder movement slightly. We have heavy militia suits already, just equip it with a standard scrambler and other basic militia type stuff and there you go. Now they cant ninja everywhere. They'll even have more h.p, and any AV weapon should be classified heavy anyway.

Im not saying the swarm launchers are over powered, theyre not. They are just far too effective and imbalanced. I am merely trying to balance the game out. Makes sense to me that they are listed as heavy anyway, damn things look heavy enough.

My biggest beef with swarm launcher is their range. I wish there were images of map available so I can draw them, but I've had people up in the mountains shoot me, where only a sniper might be able to take them out. It doesn't matter how much I back up or move, they'll just continue to follow me.

So basically if I'm in an open field, I'm royally screwed. Even if I do manage to survive, I'm basically trapped. I can't move back out in the open again because I'll get shot at, and while I'm sitting, the enemy is approaching me with AV grenades and forge guns.


Just take Battlefield's lead with tanks. A lock on rocket launcher with no counter to it is just lazy. At least make it guided (you have to manually maneuver the rocket after you shoot it).

Basically tanks cannot DODGE AV attacks. Forge guns are instant rocket launchers essentially. Again, swarm launchers are lock on rocket launchers. When you take away all the sci-fi away from it, it's just very newbie friendly. There's no timing involved with the rockets, no accounting for gravity.

Make the swarm launchers slow moving, but powerful guided missles.
Make the forge guns either very fast or instant lasers, but low damage.

These two things will also balance them against dropships as well (a good pilot could probably dodge the guided missles, although with skill you could also hit them, and the forge guns will definitely drive away, but not kill a dropship in about two shots).

Get rid of AV grenades, as it basically allows anyone to become AV. Being AV should be a tradeoff or sacrifice, you shouldn't be able to kill infantry and vehicles, you need to have weaknesses. Instead force people to get up really close to the tank with the remote detonators if they really want to eat their cake and have it too.

Are you serious? I mean really think about what you are saying. Pretend two of the best tank players are red lining you, and you can't use swarms because you need to guide them but the enemy snipers are popping you before doing that, and your forge gun is now just tickling the tanks. Let's run up to the tank then! Wait AV GRENADES don't exists according to your proposal. Your idea would turn this game into a tank fest. Do you remember when tanks had the ability to solo a whole team? It would be the return of that, but worse.

They're not overpowered, just make your HAV stronger, I fired a whole swarm at a HAV driver all of them hit and he only lost 10% of his shield. Hardly effective VS a well built HAV/Dropship

I don't see a problem with red lining really. For most of the maps you don't really have a good view of the entire map. Plus, you can only really redline with a rail gun which isn't that great, due to the lack of splash damage. If they're red lining, you can easily ignore them and capture the bases.

And your thing about sniping is sort of my point. All you need to do is be behind cover, charge up your forge gun or lock on quickly, fire, and then duck. I'm sorry, but you're asking to be way too comfortable. You're essentially saying that you should be able to take out tanks from far away, with no risks.

As for the AV grenades, it shouldn't really apply to your scenario (red lining).

And currently, this game is just all infantry. What incentive is there to drive a drop ship, when the pilot gets no points and can be taken down so easily? What incentive is there to drive a tank, when you're guaranteed to make a loss if you die even once?

Take one for the team? Doesn't really fit with the whole "market based" system, IMO. As a mercenary, I'm not going to lose out financially like a bloody communist.

do yourself, and anyone else reading this thread a favor, and just leave your brilliant opinions to yourself, before anyone else breaks their nose from facepalming after reading each sentence you type.

furthermore, if your tank is getting blown up, get a better tank, or HTFU. tanks are already becoming a deciding factor in most matches.

The main problem I have with swarms is that they have the ability to lob volleys of swarms at me without any risk really. Missiles launchers on tanks have limited distance why don't swarms? The distance isn't a big problem for me it's just the invisibllity of swarms after a long distance and the failed animation of swarms hitting a structure but registering damage on my tank. This also includes the ability to lock on through objects and shot volleys behind objects.
All that being said I know my tank dominates in public matches, and the main reason for that domination is the lack of understanding for Anti-vehicle combat. They challenge my tank when I have a hardener on and they see they are doing little chunks of damage but i am repairing that damage so quickly my tank seems god-like and they give up on trying to kill my tank. Armor hardeners last for long time but they don't last for ever, just like armor repairers. It takes teamwork to kill a tank and . IMO it is easier to kill a tank than keeping one alive(for ambush which I play mostly)

It takes teamwork to kill a tank teamwork to keep it alive

I've fought your tank, that thing was immortal



There's the problem, no one uses teamwork. A random guy shooting at a tank, even with a swarm or forge gun, isn't going to accomplish much. Whenever there's a tank , there's usually only 1 or 2 guys actually targeting it. A guy shooting from behind a rock? Send him some infantry, they only have scramblers and SMG's to defend themselves with anyway.

Not sure it was an argument, more like recommendation.

One question: Why are you calling in tanks, in public matches, if you're not prepared to lose them? If you're losing money, then maybe you should stop calling them in?

I think if you are going to attack my tank I should have the ability to retaliate by myself. Swarms have the ability to hit me outside of my blaster's range and if you hug my tank(which is a blind spot for my blaster) you can lob Av nades. These two things I am fine with but if you are in my range and can hit me I should be able to hit you right back.

Everything, besides shotguns, can hit me out of my SMG's range, I have to close the distance if I want to retaliate. The same is true for Tanks. A lock-on missile turret, that can lock-on to people and not just tanks, would be pretty cool though, but then they'd have to let swarms lock-on to people as well.

Apples and oranges. Invalid comparison. Shotguns range is small to begin with, large blaster tanks range is way bigger. I'm talking about they are in my range and able to hide(head glitch, fps talk) behind structures and still hit me while I can't do a thing but run

Apples and oranges. Invalid comparison. Shotguns range is small to begin with, large blaster tanks range is way bigger. I'm talking about they are in my range and able to hide(head glitch, fps talk) behind structures and still hit me while I can't do a thing but run

Oh, hiding. I thought it was an actual range issue. Like I said LOCK-ON MISSILE TURRETS.
Or just regular mortars....

Im not saying the swarm launchers are over powered, theyre not. They are just far too effective and imbalanced.

Then why do so many vehicles can go 20 and 0 without issue?

I think if you are going to attack my tank I should have the ability to retaliate by myself. Swarms have the ability to hit me outside of my blaster's range and if you hug my tank(which is a blind spot for my blaster) you can lob Av nades. These two things I am fine with but if you are in my range and can hit me I should be able to hit you right back.

As for my tank being immortal, I have it at the max an armor tank can get. The only thing I can do to better my tank is increase it's damage output (aka new blasters)

You CANNOT GET A LOCK FROM BEHIND COVER!!! yes you can lock a tank that only a portion is sticking out from cover, so as far as the tanker is concerned you are behind cover, but you must be able to see at least 25% of the vehicle to get a lock. You give me a standard RPG and I will still hit you from "behind cover" and hell even more cover because the second I see 1% of your tank I will spam it as fast as I can.

Stop being stupid, stop running militia, stop running alone. Any half way decent tanker will get me or get away from me 100% of the time, if I don't get back up from my team.

if you are getting shot down as a dropship by swarm you are stupid you should never get hit by more the one round of swarm EVER.

and dont run a lav when there is av on the field I mean durrrrrrrrr.

I think if you are going to attack my tank I should have the ability to retaliate by myself. Swarms have the ability to hit me outside of my blaster's range and if you hug my tank(which is a blind spot for my blaster) you can lob Av nades. These two things I am fine with but if you are in my range and can hit me I should be able to hit you right back.

I'm surprised that swarm launchers don't act as javelins. This far in the future. But then again i don't know anything about military stuff.

so you are saying they need to get rid of mass drivers??? or make MD rounds fly straight and have less splash. oh and grenades have to go too.

I mean really that's what it comes down to. you can hit them right back as soon as you move like six feet forward or three feet back.

I am talking about av weapons(swarms and forges) not noobtubes and grenades.
I think av nades need to change. How exactly? You notice the top of the grenade, the blue part, should have I be twisted to actives it tracking mechanism. But you caen throw it without twisting the av nade but it will not have the tracking feature. I don't want the twisting animation to be 3 second but should take at least 1 second. It would stop the easy nade spam

sorry I forgot you are impervious to sarcasm due to your lack of intellect Zitro I'll make sure to use tags just for you next time.

Well it's hard to disquisit stupidity from sarcasm so please pick one and stick with it