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Red Vodka
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2013.02.09 20:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
My biggest beef with swarm launcher is their range. I wish there were images of map available so I can draw them, but I've had people up in the mountains shoot me, where only a sniper might be able to take them out. It doesn't matter how much I back up or move, they'll just continue to follow me.
So basically if I'm in an open field, I'm royally screwed. Even if I do manage to survive, I'm basically trapped. I can't move back out in the open again because I'll get shot at, and while I'm sitting, the enemy is approaching me with AV grenades and forge guns.
Just take Battlefield's lead with tanks. A lock on rocket launcher with no counter to it is just lazy. At least make it guided (you have to manually maneuver the rocket after you shoot it).
Basically tanks cannot DODGE AV attacks. Forge guns are instant rocket launchers essentially. Again, swarm launchers are lock on rocket launchers. When you take away all the sci-fi away from it, it's just very newbie friendly. There's no timing involved with the rockets, no accounting for gravity.
Make the swarm launchers slow moving, but powerful guided missles.
Make the forge guns either very fast or instant lasers, but low damage.
These two things will also balance them against dropships as well (a good pilot could probably dodge the guided missles, although with skill you could also hit them, and the forge guns will definitely drive away, but not kill a dropship in about two shots).
Get rid of AV grenades, as it basically allows anyone to become AV. Being AV should be a tradeoff or sacrifice, you shouldn't be able to kill infantry and vehicles, you need to have weaknesses. Instead force people to get up really close to the tank with the remote detonators if they really want to eat their cake and have it too. |
Red Vodka
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.02.09 21:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kira Lannister wrote:Red Vodka wrote:My biggest beef with swarm launcher is their range. I wish there were images of map available so I can draw them, but I've had people up in the mountains shoot me, where only a sniper might be able to take them out. It doesn't matter how much I back up or move, they'll just continue to follow me.
So basically if I'm in an open field, I'm royally screwed. Even if I do manage to survive, I'm basically trapped. I can't move back out in the open again because I'll get shot at, and while I'm sitting, the enemy is approaching me with AV grenades and forge guns.
Just take Battlefield's lead with tanks. A lock on rocket launcher with no counter to it is just lazy. At least make it guided (you have to manually maneuver the rocket after you shoot it).
Basically tanks cannot DODGE AV attacks. Forge guns are instant rocket launchers essentially. Again, swarm launchers are lock on rocket launchers. When you take away all the sci-fi away from it, it's just very newbie friendly. There's no timing involved with the rockets, no accounting for gravity.
Make the swarm launchers slow moving, but powerful guided missles.
Make the forge guns either very fast or instant lasers, but low damage.
These two things will also balance them against dropships as well (a good pilot could probably dodge the guided missles, although with skill you could also hit them, and the forge guns will definitely drive away, but not kill a dropship in about two shots).
Get rid of AV grenades, as it basically allows anyone to become AV. Being AV should be a tradeoff or sacrifice, you shouldn't be able to kill infantry and vehicles, you need to have weaknesses. Instead force people to get up really close to the tank with the remote detonators if they really want to eat their cake and have it too. Are you serious? I mean really think about what you are saying. Pretend two of the best tank players are red lining you, and you can't use swarms because you need to guide them but the enemy snipers are popping you before doing that, and your forge gun is now just tickling the tanks. Let's run up to the tank then! Wait AV GRENADES don't exists according to your proposal. Your idea would turn this game into a tank fest. Do you remember when tanks had the ability to solo a whole team? It would be the return of that, but worse.
I don't see a problem with red lining really. For most of the maps you don't really have a good view of the entire map. Plus, you can only really redline with a rail gun which isn't that great, due to the lack of splash damage. If they're red lining, you can easily ignore them and capture the bases.
And your thing about sniping is sort of my point. All you need to do is be behind cover, charge up your forge gun or lock on quickly, fire, and then duck. I'm sorry, but you're asking to be way too comfortable. You're essentially saying that you should be able to take out tanks from far away, with no risks.
As for the AV grenades, it shouldn't really apply to your scenario (red lining).
And currently, this game is just all infantry. What incentive is there to drive a drop ship, when the pilot gets no points and can be taken down so easily? What incentive is there to drive a tank, when you're guaranteed to make a loss if you die even once?
Take one for the team? Doesn't really fit with the whole "market based" system, IMO. As a mercenary, I'm not going to lose out financially like a bloody communist. |
Red Vodka
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.02.09 22:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Orin the Freak wrote:Red Vodka wrote:Kira Lannister wrote:Red Vodka wrote:My biggest beef with swarm launcher is their range. I wish there were images of map available so I can draw them, but I've had people up in the mountains shoot me, where only a sniper might be able to take them out. It doesn't matter how much I back up or move, they'll just continue to follow me.
So basically if I'm in an open field, I'm royally screwed. Even if I do manage to survive, I'm basically trapped. I can't move back out in the open again because I'll get shot at, and while I'm sitting, the enemy is approaching me with AV grenades and forge guns.
Just take Battlefield's lead with tanks. A lock on rocket launcher with no counter to it is just lazy. At least make it guided (you have to manually maneuver the rocket after you shoot it).
Basically tanks cannot DODGE AV attacks. Forge guns are instant rocket launchers essentially. Again, swarm launchers are lock on rocket launchers. When you take away all the sci-fi away from it, it's just very newbie friendly. There's no timing involved with the rockets, no accounting for gravity.
Make the swarm launchers slow moving, but powerful guided missles.
Make the forge guns either very fast or instant lasers, but low damage.
These two things will also balance them against dropships as well (a good pilot could probably dodge the guided missles, although with skill you could also hit them, and the forge guns will definitely drive away, but not kill a dropship in about two shots).
Get rid of AV grenades, as it basically allows anyone to become AV. Being AV should be a tradeoff or sacrifice, you shouldn't be able to kill infantry and vehicles, you need to have weaknesses. Instead force people to get up really close to the tank with the remote detonators if they really want to eat their cake and have it too. Are you serious? I mean really think about what you are saying. Pretend two of the best tank players are red lining you, and you can't use swarms because you need to guide them but the enemy snipers are popping you before doing that, and your forge gun is now just tickling the tanks. Let's run up to the tank then! Wait AV GRENADES don't exists according to your proposal. Your idea would turn this game into a tank fest. Do you remember when tanks had the ability to solo a whole team? It would be the return of that, but worse. I don't see a problem with red lining really. For most of the maps you don't really have a good view of the entire map. Plus, you can only really redline with a rail gun which isn't that great, due to the lack of splash damage. If they're red lining, you can easily ignore them and capture the bases. And your thing about sniping is sort of my point. All you need to do is be behind cover, charge up your forge gun or lock on quickly, fire, and then duck. I'm sorry, but you're asking to be way too comfortable. You're essentially saying that you should be able to take out tanks from far away, with no risks. As for the AV grenades, it shouldn't really apply to your scenario (red lining). And currently, this game is just all infantry. What incentive is there to drive a drop ship, when the pilot gets no points and can be taken down so easily? What incentive is there to drive a tank, when you're guaranteed to make a loss if you die even once? Take one for the team? Doesn't really fit with the whole "market based" system, IMO. As a mercenary, I'm not going to lose out financially like a bloody communist. do yourself, and anyone else reading this thread a favor, and just leave your brilliant opinions to yourself, before anyone else breaks their nose from facepalming after reading each sentence you type. furthermore, if your tank is getting blown up, get a better tank, or HTFU. tanks are already becoming a deciding factor in most matches.
Just saying "facepalm" and calling me a bad player isn't an argument. It just sounds like arrogance and elitism.
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Red Vodka
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2013.02.09 22:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Not sure it was an argument, more like recommendation. One question: Why are you calling in tanks, in public matches, if you're not prepared to lose them? If you're losing money, then maybe you should stop calling them in? 
1) Because I'm a college student that doesn't have the time to play clan matches
2) If I stop calling them in, I essentially wasted all of my SP and time.
While I do believe that tanks should be less effective when not in a squad or clan, I stand by my point that currently the AV is just ridiculously powerful compared to a game like Battlefield.
Again, you have 1) a heat seeking missile with VERY high range 2) an rocket (forge gun) that's instant, does high damage, and has no gravity drop and high range
It gives very little opportunity for a tank to survive. At the very least it should give a tank the opportunity to retreat, but given the horrible maneuvering/controls, design of the maps (either a lack of cover with open fields, or very urban areas that hinder your mobility) and guaranteed hits from these guns a single AV person can not only drive away a tank (which I'm fine with), but kill it quickly. And, on top of that, with little risk or investment.
Again, I feel like my suggestions will make the weapons more balanced and unique. Swarm launchers will do more damage than forge guns, but at the cost of speed and safety. Forge guns retain their speed and ease of aiming, but at the cost of damage (I would also like to see damage reduced the farther the target is, because essentially forge guns can also snipe as well).
Do I think I'm a 100% right? No. Am I the best or the most frequent player? No. But do I have a right to make my voice heard and have my opinions respected (not necessarily accepted though)? Yes.
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