DUST Search - Balancing Swarm launchers

Mr Zitro wrote:

Sloth9230 wrote:

Mr Zitro wrote:

The main problem I have with swarms is that they have the ability to lob volleys of swarms at me without any risk really. Missiles launchers on tanks have limited distance why don't swarms? The distance isn't a big problem for me it's just the invisibllity of swarms after a long distance and the failed animation of swarms hitting a structure but registering damage on my tank. This also includes the ability to lock on through objects and shot volleys behind objects.
All that being said I know my tank dominates in public matches, and the main reason for that domination is the lack of understanding for Anti-vehicle combat. They challenge my tank when I have a hardener on and they see they are doing little chunks of damage but i am repairing that damage so quickly my tank seems god-like and they give up on trying to kill my tank. Armor hardeners last for long time but they don't last for ever, just like armor repairers. It takes teamwork to kill a tank and . IMO it is easier to kill a tank than keeping one alive(for ambush which I play mostly)

I've fought your tank, that thing was immortal Straight

Mr Zitro wrote:

It takes teamwork to kill a tank teamwork to keep it alive

There's the problem, no one uses teamwork. A random guy shooting at a tank, even with a swarm or forge gun, isn't going to accomplish much. Whenever there's a tank , there's usually only 1 or 2 guys actually targeting it. A guy shooting from behind a rock? Send him some infantry, they only have scramblers and SMG's to defend themselves with anyway.

I think if you are going to attack my tank I should have the ability to retaliate by myself. Swarms have the ability to hit me outside of my blaster's range and if you hug my tank(which is a blind spot for my blaster) you can lob Av nades. These two things I am fine with but if you are in my range and can hit me I should be able to hit you right back.

As for my tank being immortal, I have it at the max an armor tank can get. The only thing I can do to better my tank is increase it's damage output (aka new blasters)

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Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 244	Posted - 2013.02.09 22:18:00 - [61] - Quote Not sure it was an argument, more like recommendation. One question: Why are you calling in tanks, in public matches, if you're not prepared to lose them? If you're losing money, then maybe you should stop calling them in?
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 385	Posted - 2013.02.09 22:19:00 - [62] - Quote Better idea this way...
Mr Zitro Imperfects Negative-Feedback 417	Posted - 2013.02.09 22:25:00 - [63] - Quote The main problem I have with swarms is that they have the ability to lob volleys of swarms at me without any risk really. Missiles launchers on tanks have limited distance why don't swarms? The distance isn't a big problem for me it's just the invisibllity of swarms after a long distance and the failed animation of swarms hitting a structure but registering damage on my tank. This also includes the ability to lock on through objects and shot volleys behind objects. All that being said I know my tank dominates in public matches, and the main reason for that domination is the lack of understanding for Anti-vehicle combat. They challenge my tank when I have a hardener on and they see they are doing little chunks of damage but i am repairing that damage so quickly my tank seems god-like and they give up on trying to kill my tank. Armor hardeners last for long time but they don't last for ever, just like armor repairers. It takes teamwork to kill a tank and teamwork to keep it alive. IMO it is easier to kill a tank than keeping one alive(for ambush which I play mostly)
Orin the Freak Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 334	Posted - 2013.02.09 22:26:00 - [64] - Quote you thinking you deserve more than a facepalm for your radically illogical ideas and opinions sounds like ignorance or trolling to me. I am no better a human being than anyone else, but I can admit when I'm in the wrong. Can you? or shall we continue this mindless contest of "arrogance and elitism"?
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 244	Posted - 2013.02.09 22:38:00 - [65] - Quote Mr Zitro wrote: The main problem I have with swarms is that they have the ability to lob volleys of swarms at me without any risk really. Missiles launchers on tanks have limited distance why don't swarms? The distance isn't a big problem for me it's just the invisibllity of swarms after a long distance and the failed animation of swarms hitting a structure but registering damage on my tank. This also includes the ability to lock on through objects and shot volleys behind objects. All that being said I know my tank dominates in public matches, and the main reason for that domination is the lack of understanding for Anti-vehicle combat. They challenge my tank when I have a hardener on and they see they are doing little chunks of damage but i am repairing that damage so quickly my tank seems god-like and they give up on trying to kill my tank. Armor hardeners last for long time but they don't last for ever, just like armor repairers. It takes teamwork to kill a tank and . IMO it is easier to kill a tank than keeping one alive(for ambush which I play mostly) I've fought your tank, that thing was immortal Mr Zitro wrote: It takes teamwork to kill a tank teamwork to keep it alive There's the problem, no one uses teamwork. A random guy shooting at a tank, even with a swarm or forge gun, isn't going to accomplish much. Whenever there's a tank , there's usually only 1 or 2 guys actually targeting it. A guy shooting from behind a rock? Send him some infantry, they only have scramblers and SMG's to defend themselves with anyway.
Mr Zitro Imperfects Negative-Feedback 417	Posted - 2013.02.09 22:53:00 - [66] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Mr Zitro wrote: The main problem I have with swarms is that they have the ability to lob volleys of swarms at me without any risk really. Missiles launchers on tanks have limited distance why don't swarms? The distance isn't a big problem for me it's just the invisibllity of swarms after a long distance and the failed animation of swarms hitting a structure but registering damage on my tank. This also includes the ability to lock on through objects and shot volleys behind objects. All that being said I know my tank dominates in public matches, and the main reason for that domination is the lack of understanding for Anti-vehicle combat. They challenge my tank when I have a hardener on and they see they are doing little chunks of damage but i am repairing that damage so quickly my tank seems god-like and they give up on trying to kill my tank. Armor hardeners last for long time but they don't last for ever, just like armor repairers. It takes teamwork to kill a tank and . IMO it is easier to kill a tank than keeping one alive(for ambush which I play mostly) I've fought your tank, that thing was immortal Mr Zitro wrote: It takes teamwork to kill a tank teamwork to keep it alive There's the problem, no one uses teamwork. A random guy shooting at a tank, even with a swarm or forge gun, isn't going to accomplish much. Whenever there's a tank , there's usually only 1 or 2 guys actually targeting it. A guy shooting from behind a rock? Send him some infantry, they only have scramblers and SMG's to defend themselves with anyway. I think if you are going to attack my tank I should have the ability to retaliate by myself. Swarms have the ability to hit me outside of my blaster's range and if you hug my tank(which is a blind spot for my blaster) you can lob Av nades. These two things I am fine with but if you are in my range and can hit me I should be able to hit you right back. As for my tank being immortal, I have it at the max an armor tank can get. The only thing I can do to better my tank is increase it's damage output (aka new blasters)
Red Vodka Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 2	Posted - 2013.02.09 22:56:00 - [67] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Not sure it was an argument, more like recommendation. One question: Why are you calling in tanks, in public matches, if you're not prepared to lose them? If you're losing money, then maybe you should stop calling them in? 1) Because I'm a college student that doesn't have the time to play clan matches 2) If I stop calling them in, I essentially wasted all of my SP and time. While I do believe that tanks should be less effective when not in a squad or clan, I stand by my point that currently the AV is just ridiculously powerful compared to a game like Battlefield. Again, you have 1) a heat seeking missile with VERY high range 2) an rocket (forge gun) that's instant, does high damage, and has no gravity drop and high range It gives very little opportunity for a tank to survive. At the very least it should give a tank the opportunity to retreat, but given the horrible maneuvering/controls, design of the maps (either a lack of cover with open fields, or very urban areas that hinder your mobility) and guaranteed hits from these guns a single AV person can not only drive away a tank (which I'm fine with), but kill it quickly. And, on top of that, with little risk or investment. Again, I feel like my suggestions will make the weapons more balanced and unique. Swarm launchers will do more damage than forge guns, but at the cost of speed and safety. Forge guns retain their speed and ease of aiming, but at the cost of damage (I would also like to see damage reduced the farther the target is, because essentially forge guns can also snipe as well). Do I think I'm a 100% right? No. Am I the best or the most frequent player? No. But do I have a right to make my voice heard and have my opinions respected (not necessarily accepted though)? Yes.
Bucktooth Badger Buck's Intergalactic Pawn Shop 65	Posted - 2013.02.09 22:59:00 - [68] - Quote Last month / build I created a bit of a report based on my opinion & use of the SL here:- Swarms Even though I tend to view the SL differently to most, basically I feel the range is too great & a little over powered for the lower levels. But it should become more powerful as you progress through the levels, as will the vehicle drivers of Dust. I know you may feel that the Militia SL users are destroying your shiny HAVs before you've even had chance to unwrap them, but trust me in a couple of weeks, if you've skilled up & built your tank right, then you'll be running all over the starter fits. Which coincidentally, you'll then see a flood of threads on these forums of people moaning that HAVs are OP & need to be smashed with the nerf hammer (again). As someone mentioned above, the idea is that we should all be running in squads. A HAV driver shouldn't be alone firing the main turret, they should have a couple of small gunners keeping the AV infantry at bay. But in the same respect, one SL player should not be able to lone wolf any tank higher than their skill level. They should be part of a proper AV squad. The issue is we've all been brainwashed by some of the other FPS games into thinking we are all God like on the battlefield & can do everything single handed. I have seen some brilliant FPS players on here, performing tactics that would make them totally rule COD for example. However, Dust is a different ball game altogether and even though those tactics seem to work at first those same players suddenly get a rude introduction to the New Eden universe.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 244	Posted - 2013.02.09 23:00:00 - [69] - Quote Mr Zitro wrote: I think if you are going to attack my tank I should have the ability to retaliate by myself. Swarms have the ability to hit me outside of my blaster's range and if you hug my tank(which is a blind spot for my blaster) you can lob Av nades. These two things I am fine with but if you are in my range and can hit me I should be able to hit you right back. Everything, besides shotguns, can hit me out of my SMG's range, I have to close the distance if I want to retaliate. The same is true for Tanks. A lock-on missile turret, that can lock-on to people and not just tanks, would be pretty cool though, but then they'd have to let swarms lock-on to people as well.
Irish Syn Chernova Industries 123	Posted - 2013.02.09 23:05:00 - [70] - Quote I like this proposal, it would also work against those who use swarmers with nanohives and become a one man vehicle wrecking crew. With this they'd have to rely on a teammate for more ammo.

Mr Zitro Imperfects Negative-Feedback 417	Posted - 2013.02.09 23:16:00 - [71] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Mr Zitro wrote: I think if you are going to attack my tank I should have the ability to retaliate by myself. Swarms have the ability to hit me outside of my blaster's range and if you hug my tank(which is a blind spot for my blaster) you can lob Av nades. These two things I am fine with but if you are in my range and can hit me I should be able to hit you right back. Everything, besides shotguns, can hit me out of my SMG's range, I have to close the distance if I want to retaliate. The same is true for Tanks. A lock-on missile turret, that can lock-on to people and not just tanks, would be pretty cool though, but then they'd have to let swarms lock-on to people as well. Apples and oranges. Invalid comparison. Shotguns range is small to begin with, large blaster tanks range is way bigger. I'm talking about they are in my range and able to hide(head glitch, fps talk) behind structures and still hit me while I can't do a thing but run
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 244	Posted - 2013.02.09 23:21:00 - [72] - Quote Mr Zitro wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Mr Zitro wrote: I think if you are going to attack my tank I should have the ability to retaliate by myself. Swarms have the ability to hit me outside of my blaster's range and if you hug my tank(which is a blind spot for my blaster) you can lob Av nades. These two things I am fine with but if you are in my range and can hit me I should be able to hit you right back. Everything, besides shotguns, can hit me out of my SMG's range, I have to close the distance if I want to retaliate. The same is true for Tanks. A lock-on missile turret, that can lock-on to people and not just tanks, would be pretty cool though, but then they'd have to let swarms lock-on to people as well. Apples and oranges. Invalid comparison. Shotguns range is small to begin with, large blaster tanks range is way bigger. I'm talking about they are in my range and able to hide(head glitch, fps talk) behind structures and still hit me while I can't do a thing but run Oh, hiding. I thought it was an actual range issue. Like I said LOCK-ON MISSILE TURRETS.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 244	Posted - 2013.02.09 23:22:00 - [73] - Quote Mr Zitro wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Mr Zitro wrote: I think if you are going to attack my tank I should have the ability to retaliate by myself. Swarms have the ability to hit me outside of my blaster's range and if you hug my tank(which is a blind spot for my blaster) you can lob Av nades. These two things I am fine with but if you are in my range and can hit me I should be able to hit you right back. Everything, besides shotguns, can hit me out of my SMG's range, I have to close the distance if I want to retaliate. The same is true for Tanks. A lock-on missile turret, that can lock-on to people and not just tanks, would be pretty cool though, but then they'd have to let swarms lock-on to people as well. Apples and oranges. Invalid comparison. Shotguns range is small to begin with, large blaster tanks range is way bigger. I'm talking about they are in my range and able to hide(head glitch, fps talk) behind structures and still hit me while I can't do a thing but run Oh, hiding. I thought it was an actual range issue. Like I said LOCK-ON MISSILE TURRETS. Or just regular mortars....
Mr Zitro Imperfects Negative-Feedback 417	Posted - 2013.02.09 23:33:00 - [74] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Mr Zitro wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Mr Zitro wrote: I think if you are going to attack my tank I should have the ability to retaliate by myself. Swarms have the ability to hit me outside of my blaster's range and if you hug my tank(which is a blind spot for my blaster) you can lob Av nades. These two things I am fine with but if you are in my range and can hit me I should be able to hit you right back. Everything, besides shotguns, can hit me out of my SMG's range, I have to close the distance if I want to retaliate. The same is true for Tanks. A lock-on missile turret, that can lock-on to people and not just tanks, would be pretty cool though, but then they'd have to let swarms lock-on to people as well. Apples and oranges. Invalid comparison. Shotguns range is small to begin with, large blaster tanks range is way bigger. I'm talking about they are in my range and able to hide(head glitch, fps talk) behind structures and still hit me while I can't do a thing but run Oh, hiding. I thought it was an actual range issue. Like I said LOCK-ON MISSILE TURRETS. Or just regular mortars.... Mortars aka artillery is soon tm. I think missile tanks should be able to lock on but to dropships or aerial vehicles only.
Karl Koekwaus Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 30	Posted - 2013.02.10 00:41:00 - [75] - Quote Tzaar Bomba wrote: Im not saying the swarm launchers are over powered, theyre not. They are just far too effective and imbalanced. http://thesaurus.com/browse/overpower?qsrc=2446 http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english-thesaurus/overpowering I think you don't know what you're saying.
Groza Tragediya Opus Arcana Orion Empire 72	Posted - 2013.02.10 00:44:00 - [76] - Quote Reimus Klinsman wrote: OP wrote: and vehicles arnt effective enough with anti infantry Then why do so many vehicles can go 20 and 0 without issue? We go 20 and 0 when theres no body at the top of a mountain with a swarm launcher
fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 211	Posted - 2013.02.10 00:53:00 - [77] - Quote You CANNOT GET A LOCK FROM BEHIND COVER!!! yes you can lock a tank that only a portion is sticking out from cover, so as far as the tanker is concerned you are behind cover, but you must be able to see at least 25% of the vehicle to get a lock. You give me a standard RPG and I will still hit you from "behind cover" and hell even more cover because the second I see 1% of your tank I will spam it as fast as I can. Stop being stupid, stop running militia, stop running alone. Any half way decent tanker will get me or get away from me 100% of the time, if I don't get back up from my team. if you are getting shot down as a dropship by swarm you are stupid you should never get hit by more the one round of swarm EVER. and dont run a lav when there is av on the field I mean durrrrrrrrr.
fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 211	Posted - 2013.02.10 00:58:00 - [78] - Quote Mr Zitro wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Mr Zitro wrote: The main problem I have with swarms is that they have the ability to lob volleys of swarms at me without any risk really. Missiles launchers on tanks have limited distance why don't swarms? The distance isn't a big problem for me it's just the invisibllity of swarms after a long distance and the failed animation of swarms hitting a structure but registering damage on my tank. This also includes the ability to lock on through objects and shot volleys behind objects. All that being said I know my tank dominates in public matches, and the main reason for that domination is the lack of understanding for Anti-vehicle combat. They challenge my tank when I have a hardener on and they see they are doing little chunks of damage but i am repairing that damage so quickly my tank seems god-like and they give up on trying to kill my tank. Armor hardeners last for long time but they don't last for ever, just like armor repairers. It takes teamwork to kill a tank and . IMO it is easier to kill a tank than keeping one alive(for ambush which I play mostly) I've fought your tank, that thing was immortal Mr Zitro wrote: It takes teamwork to kill a tank teamwork to keep it alive There's the problem, no one uses teamwork. A random guy shooting at a tank, even with a swarm or forge gun, isn't going to accomplish much. Whenever there's a tank , there's usually only 1 or 2 guys actually targeting it. A guy shooting from behind a rock? Send him some infantry, they only have scramblers and SMG's to defend themselves with anyway. I think if you are going to attack my tank I should have the ability to retaliate by myself. Swarms have the ability to hit me outside of my blaster's range and if you hug my tank(which is a blind spot for my blaster) you can lob Av nades. These two things I am fine with but if you are in my range and can hit me I should be able to hit you right back. As for my tank being immortal, I have it at the max an armor tank can get. The only thing I can do to better my tank is increase it's damage output (aka new blasters) play swarm some time , you can hit any one shooting at you you just have to move they cant lock you with out seeing 25% of your tank.
Mr Zitro Imperfects Negative-Feedback 417	Posted - 2013.02.10 01:09:00 - [79] - Quote fred orpaul wrote: You CANNOT GET A LOCK FROM BEHIND COVER!!! yes you can lock a tank that only a portion is sticking out from cover, so as far as the tanker is concerned you are behind cover, but you must be able to see at least 25% of the vehicle to get a lock. You give me a standard RPG and I will still hit you from "behind cover" and hell even more cover because the second I see 1% of your tank I will spam it as fast as I can. Stop being stupid, stop running militia, stop running alone. Any half way decent tanker will get me or get away from me 100% of the time, if I don't get back up from my team. if you are getting shot down as a dropship by swarm you are stupid you should never get hit by more the one round of swarm EVER. and dont run a lav when there is av on the field I mean durrrrrrrrr. Ugh see kids, this is what happens when you don't fully read the thread. You get upset and make a post and all it does it make you look stupid. Take so deep breathes maybe even drink some water. Then you can join in on this discussion
fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 211	Posted - 2013.02.10 02:31:00 - [80] - Quote mmmmm the troll says "I'm not a troll that guys the troll" got it.

fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 211	Posted - 2013.02.10 02:36:00 - [81] - Quote Mr Zitro wrote: I think if you are going to attack my tank I should have the ability to retaliate by myself. Swarms have the ability to hit me outside of my blaster's range and if you hug my tank(which is a blind spot for my blaster) you can lob Av nades. These two things I am fine with but if you are in my range and can hit me I should be able to hit you right back. so you are saying they need to get rid of mass drivers??? or make MD rounds fly straight and have less splash. oh and grenades have to go too. I mean really that's what it comes down to. you can hit them right back as soon as you move like six feet forward or three feet back.
Big miku Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 91	Posted - 2013.02.10 02:42:00 - [82] - Quote xMarauder wrote: I'm surprised that swarm launchers don't act as javelins. This far in the future. But then again i don't know anything about military stuff. Oh god, this would cause so much rage, could you even fathom? Those things have MASSIVE range, attack top armor, can acquire locks out of LOS, have huge payloads, can fire via GPS. This would be glorious. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6_JpPvWCAQ&t=0m37s whoops was confusing the Jav with the MM, Javs need LOS Metis and most 2nd gen systems do not.
Mr Zitro Imperfects Negative-Feedback 417	Posted - 2013.02.10 02:43:00 - [83] - Quote fred orpaul wrote: Mr Zitro wrote: I think if you are going to attack my tank I should have the ability to retaliate by myself. Swarms have the ability to hit me outside of my blaster's range and if you hug my tank(which is a blind spot for my blaster) you can lob Av nades. These two things I am fine with but if you are in my range and can hit me I should be able to hit you right back. so you are saying they need to get rid of mass drivers??? or make MD rounds fly straight and have less splash. oh and grenades have to go too. I mean really that's what it comes down to. you can hit them right back as soon as you move like six feet forward or three feet back. I am talking about av weapons(swarms and forges) not noobtubes and grenades. I think av nades need to change. How exactly? You notice the top of the grenade, the blue part, should have I be twisted to actives it tracking mechanism. But you can throw it without twisting the av nade but it will not have the tracking feature. I don't want the twisting animation to be 3 second but should take at least 1 second. It would stop the easy nade spam
fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 211	Posted - 2013.02.10 02:55:00 - [84] - Quote sorry I forgot you are impervious to sarcasm due to your lack of intellect Zitro I'll make sure to use tags just for you next time.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.02.10 05:46:00 - [85] - Quote Mr Zitro wrote: fred orpaul wrote: Mr Zitro wrote: I think if you are going to attack my tank I should have the ability to retaliate by myself. Swarms have the ability to hit me outside of my blaster's range and if you hug my tank(which is a blind spot for my blaster) you can lob Av nades. These two things I am fine with but if you are in my range and can hit me I should be able to hit you right back. so you are saying they need to get rid of mass drivers??? or make MD rounds fly straight and have less splash. oh and grenades have to go too. I mean really that's what it comes down to. you can hit them right back as soon as you move like six feet forward or three feet back. I am talking about av weapons(swarms and forges) not noobtubes and grenades. I think av nades need to change. How exactly? You notice the top of the grenade, the blue part, should have I be twisted to actives it tracking mechanism. But you caen throw it without twisting the av nade but it will not have the tracking feature. I don't want the twisting animation to be 3 second but should take at least 1 second. It would stop the easy nade spam Oh zitro, dunno if you have checked them. scattered blasters can facetap infantry from outside forgegun max range. thats usually what kills me running AV on large maps. also.swarms have a max range but are affected by sharpshooter. militias fire four missiles, advanced and bigger can toss six. I am not defending or attacking swarms. I dont like them, they are aggravating and the only difference between your sutya and a sagaris is two shots for me. swarms suck vs. the sagaris. past that I think armor tank needs another pass. but forge guns are better for tankbusting IMHO because you dont have to swap fits when enemy dwploys armor and shields like you will with plasma and swarms. dropships are.an entirely different ball of wax. they are a bad basis as their defenses start out paper thin and they need at least a 30% boost in EHP for better than militia. I shouldnt be able to hit a advanced and well fitted dropship once and knock it to 10% in a single shot. only problem is I. need a killmail or something to tell me if I am blowing up people who just have shitfits or.are.simply tactically stupid. at least then we could theorycraft better fit ideas for.people for survivability.
Mr Zitro Imperfects Negative-Feedback 417	Posted - 2013.02.10 05:59:00 - [86] - Quote fred orpaul wrote: sorry I forgot you are impervious to sarcasm due to your lack of intellect Zitro I'll make sure to use tags just for you next time. Well it's hard to disquisit stupidity from sarcasm so please pick one and stick with it
Heimdallr69 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 130	Posted - 2013.02.10 06:06:00 - [87] - Quote Mr Zitro wrote: fred orpaul wrote: sorry I forgot you are impervious to sarcasm due to your lack of intellect Zitro I'll make sure to use tags just for you next time. Well it's hard to disquisit stupidity from sarcasm so please pick one and stick with it He chose stupidity
Django Quik R.I.f.t 219	Posted - 2013.02.10 11:44:00 - [88] - Quote As has already been said many times - swarms can not lock on behind cover without LOS. They can however be locked on with LOS and the lock held from behind cover and fired around the corner. This is no guarantee of any of the swarm hitting though, as they often hit the cover you're hiding behind. The way swarms work after firing is that each missile follows the target as long as it has LOS on the target. If the target heads behind cover from where the swarm is, the swarm will travel in a straight line in its last direction until it hits the cover. This is unless the target becomes visible to the swarm again, for instance by coming out the other side of the cover. Also, swarms do have a max range and just fall out of the sky after a certain distance, so if someone's swarming you from the top of a mountain, they're probably already at quite a distance and only just reaching you and take so long to get there that you often have enough time to hide behind something or run off out of range. All that said, I don't think there should be a swarm starter fit. There isn't a blueprint swarm and this is good but there shouldn't be an easy way for anyone to grab a zero investment AV fit. AV should be a conscious pre-planned decision, not something everyone on the team can just bring out as soon as a HAV or dropship gets brought out. Also, there should definitely be a vehicle module for deploying countermeasures - there would need to be cooldown or something for balancing issues though.


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