I refuse to believe that Dust will have a weekly cap of about 400k, if that's what you're implying.

Skill rewards
* Skill points are now awarded from battles based on time spent as well as warpoints earned.
* Diminishing returns for skill points earned from battles are now on a 7-day cycle that resets at downtime every Tuesday (used to reset every day at downtime)
* Skill point accrual has been rebalanced and now has a hard cap per week that corresponds to EVE Online
* Skill rewards are now also awarded at the end of each battle to players who participated but werenGÇÖt present the end of the battle (e.g. crashed/disconnected/left)

GCC

Breaking News DUST has now become

Time played> GUN GAME

GCC

Breaking News DUST has now become

Time played> GUN GAME

7 months to get where I am now... I cba. Sorry.

Nice find i'd not thought of comparing EVE and Dust SP costs on skills.

I wonder if they will change SP costs to bring them in line?

They use to be quite low and the SP price's was raised due to the amount of SP people happened to be gaining.

7 months to get where I am now... I cba. Sorry.

The Dust SP cost per level have been this way at lesat since they opened the Beta after the fanfest, however they have increased the Rank on some skills if I recall.

I do hope they respec the SP and bring it in line with the EVE SP, especially if they plan on lowering the SP gain to something more akin to EVE.

It would be nice to have level 1 skills being filled by capping a single objective or two but keeping the larger skills requiring a month or so of training.

A smarter plan would be to add a delay to certain skills becomming available. I.E. don't put the proficiency skill books out for 2 months. Now Proto weapons can't be used. IMHO CCP deciding on the speed technology becomes useable technology. Not sure how that works with EvE ideals however.

Or adding a factor like EvE where it takes time to learn a skill. You put the SP in, but you won't get to USE it for a week? That sorta of thing is far better than putting a cap on.

Is this the result of boosting? Was this planned from the start? It'll make adapting to changing metas very tricky...

Remember ccp stating it will take 7 years to max skills, this is where they plan to put us one day.. 7 years. better then 26 years in eve I guess lol.. but no more 8 mil SP a week.. them days be gone, I'm sure they lower the cap next build too

Refuse it all you want. You'll see next week that i'm really not that far off.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them push it about 512k/524k but it wont be much higher than that i expect.
I could be wrong. But its not often i am.

GCC

Breaking News DUST has now become

Time played> GUN GAME

I have no empirical values regarding your last statement, but this time, you are so wrong, you couldn't be more wrong. We already get roughly 3000SP/h passively. In your scenario, that would be all we get ever. No SP for fighting at all. This would just not work. Why would we even want to risk anything or invest money, if it doesn't matter if we play or not? It works for EVE, since it is subscription based. As long as your character gains SP, you have already paid for the game time, so you would also play, if you don't want to spend money on not playing. Dust, however, is F2P. You could just create a character, and then play something else for a year. When you get back, you have 20m SP to spend and CCP got not a single cent.

If CCP wants Dust to be played and make money with it, they have to reward the players for playing it.

I play a hour or two every day, not that much, some days i dont even log in, i have 15m sp. Thats' way, way, way too much.

I can only imagine how much some of the more dedicated players have.

I said in the OP that i could be wrong, whats wrong with putting out information about how its in done in eve for comparison and theorycrafting? Are you such a sperg you feel the need to **** up every thread you don't totally agree with?

The overall idea is good Cerebral, and I do concur. However we have to take into account that SP cost for the various ranks in DUST is dramatically higher than in EVE.

Have a look at these numbers. They are derived from what I've seen in game, and follow the EVE strategy quite well, except for the base values. A rank 20 for a given level cost 20 time the SP for a rank 1.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApXBj3IzrWnydE5iSWo5MTFMN3NlSjJZTUpFZXlvaGc

Rank one in Dust have the following SP:
10,240
40,960
112,640
256,000
and
512,000

Compare that to EVE, where a rank one skill have the following SP:

250
1,415
8,000
45,255
and
256,000

At level 5 EVE only uses half the SP for a given skill, but Dust has a much steeper entry.

Refuse it all you want. You'll see next week that i'm really not that far off.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them push it about 512k/524k but it wont be much higher than that i expect.
I could be wrong. But its not often i am.

Remember the malcontent when they removed teh 4x SP gain multiplier a few builds ago?
Imagine having people suddenly earning only a few hundred SP per battle... :P

Give it about 48 hours and we'll know exactly how much the cap is because you can be sure someone's not seen the patch notes, will play like a speg tomorrow and will hit the cap and post 12 threads sperging about it,.

Not totally true, MMO's are based around getting near items and unlocking things all the time, EVE bucked that trend and proved you don't have to be a WoW clone to be a good MMO, Dust has the same intentions.

You really can bleat on like a sheep all you like and follow the rest of the babys crying about it and continue to write things in bold if you feel it makes a difference or if it even makes you feel better..

But either way, your reading comprehension skills need some work, i said clearly that it's all speculation and i could be wrong and as i said above, the patch notes say it's making things in line with EVE, i'm pointing out how things work in EVE.

If you read the whole thread rather than sperging you'd see we've already discussed that the skill costs are too high currently if they leave them as they are when they bring the SP into line with EVE as per the patch notes.

Maybe you'd even have noticed where the SP required for EVE skills was posted and how it's considerably lower and actually quite well balanced when you look at the whole picture.

and its exactly that that will stop ppl from playing
ok i hit the cap for this week in 1-2 days. see u next week....off to play cod/moh/borderlands will be the players mindset as there is no longer any real incentive to keep playing. player count then drops at specific times later in the week because of this.

but im awaiting to see how big or small the actual cap is 1st and how fast someone can reach it but like tony said not a fan of hard caps tbh

You've all missed out on the territory control aspect and the wars and rivalry and thats whats going to keep people logging in,

You've all missed out on the territory control aspect and the wars and rivalry and thats whats going to keep people logging in,

Some people might not want to play those kind of things and just stick to instant battle etc. If you want a broader audience giving them to option to play all the things offered without limiting them is the way to go. Look at call of duty black ops, plenty of people play it for the zombies, plenty of play it for the online in general and plenty play it for a bit of both.

To be honest, if it discourages some of the more annoying spergers and leets from playing then more power to CCP. Those types generally kitten up anything they touch anyway.
Very interesting dynamic with EVE. It doesn't have as many players as most big online games, however the ones who do play are far more loyal, and willing to dig into their pockets. Something to do with the game requiring a bit of maturity and patience to play and understand, I guess.

All imo of course.

Refuse it all you want. You'll see next week that i'm really not that far off.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them push it about 512k/524k but it wont be much higher than that i expect.
I could be wrong. But its not often i am.

I hope you're correct.

other games have tried this method and quickly changed after people quit playing.
Dust isn't EVE and trying to do that will literally kill the fans. then all that will be left is EVE players.
be prepared to join a battle and see one or two other people because why bother playing if you aren't going to be rewarded for it.

SP is not the only reason to play. Owning a planet or solar system is pretty nice.

SP is not the only reason to play. Owning a planet or solar system is pretty nice.

Why is SP gain the only thing people want?

omg..... Listen to yourselves....... This is a console fps VIDEO GAME.

I know EVE may be your whole lives and what your world revolves around. You probably even got the tattoo and T shirt.

Do you really think gamers who play shooters give a toss.

NO..... They don't........... It's a GAME......

It will be interesting to see how their attitude adjusts when they have to invest several million isk into an installation on a planet and are responsible for defending it.

I don't know anything about sovereignty in EVE because I'm an explorer. I thought if you were a CEO of a corp you could take over planets and systems. The point is that now DUSTers can start corps and let pilots join from EVE. That means any of use could be a CEO and own something.

We'll see i guess, the selling point for Dust is not being rewarded after ever match though. The selling point for Dust is tears and dominating other groups, the drama and metagame.

then another corp comes along and takes it from them without issues.
yeah, that would go over real well. totally going to have them keep playing a game.

yeah that is why i don't think dust players are going to be the ones owning the planets. the eve players simply build the sand castles and dust players run on them. the sand castles will trade corps multiple times while people make money.

you can only take systems in nullsec and even then it takes time, first it's destroy the resident's presence (station bash) and then there is another step involving sovereignty blockades, territorial control unit, anchoring your own station in system and various other things i am skipping because i don't know all the details.

its all here.

nothing involves the planets. no one has any idea how they are going to incorporate planets into it. all this talk about "factional warfare" just seems fishy to me. it's all just speculation and CCP has a tight lip.

lol.... 2 games I'm done.

I see a thread!

There's going to be a devblog on how the skill system changed, but here's the gist of it:

We noticed in the past few months that having the diminishing returns on a 24-hour cycle had some downsides to it. It forced players to log in every day in order to not lose out on skill gain and consequently made e.g. taking a break quite difficult. Simply put, we felt that things were a bit too intense. As a short-term measure to combat this, we made it so that the diminishing returns to reset every seven days instead of every 24 hours. This should allow players to choose when to play without feeling stressed out about jumping in every day (although you can do just that as well). A reasonable amount of game time each week should allow you to earn all the points you can and keep up with the more hardcore players. Overall pacing of the progression should remain somewhat intact, since we also rebalanced overall skill costs down a bit to match the new active skill gain speed.

As far as Boosters go, they will continue to work as they used to and will give you 50% more active SPs per week. They won't make you hit the cap faster.

Finally, the per-week skill caps are per character, so if you're hardcore, you can grind on your other characters if your main hits the cap.

Overall pacing of the progression should remain somewhat intact, since we also rebalanced overall skill costs down a bit to match the new active skill gain speed.

Here are the new base rates for a rank 1 skill:

Level 1 - 6,220 SP
Level 2 - 18,650 SP
Level 3 - 43,530 SP
Level 4 - 87,060 SP
Level 5 - 155,460 SP

interesting, any reason you didn't go with the EVE SP numbers for a skill even though SP in Dust is capped at EVE levels?

interesting, any reason you didn't go with the EVE SP numbers for a skill even though SP in Dust is capped at EVE levels?

They didn't say capped at eve levels ... they said in line with Eve (paraphrasing cos I can't be bothered looking it up) this could mean so that skill levelling is brought into line ... ie. it could take 30 days for level 5 HAV as some of the higher Eve skills take these sorts of times.

interesting, any reason you didn't go with the EVE SP numbers for a skill even though SP in Dust is capped at EVE levels?

As pointed out above, the two games are very different in terms of pacing. While it was necessary to align and cap the skill gain rates to EVE in order to have future compatibility, we don't necessarily need to share the same pacing. We also didn't want to drastically change the pacing we had, so the solution was to make DUST skills cheaper compared to EVE skills in terms of SP. The goal is to have a rewarding progression that lets you feel you can reach new shiny things by playing the game.

As pointed out above, the two games are very different in terms of pacing. While it was necessary to align and cap the skill gain rates to EVE in order to have future compatibility, we don't necessarily need to share the same pacing. We also didn't want to drastically change the pacing we had, so the solution was to make DUST skills cheaper compared to EVE skills in terms of SP. The goal is to have a rewarding progression that lets you feel you can reach new shiny things by playing the game.

Here are the new base rates for a rank 1 skill:

Level 1 - 6,220 SP
Level 2 - 18,650 SP
Level 3 - 43,530 SP
Level 4 - 87,060 SP
Level 5 - 155,460 SP

Sounds like a good compromise! Thanks for the replys as always Nothin.

Also, are you on twitter? I like to keep as many of the Devs as possible on there to keep up to date with things.

i said this before and i will continue to say this again cuz like sometimes ppl just dont get it.

What works for EVE wont always translate well into a FPS, there are 2 different games with 2 different communities. Passive SP gain and caps may work in EVE but for a FPS where the majority of ppl play to get new gear and unlock kool stuff and feel generally REWARDED for their time they put in this move will turn ppl off if its gonna be an even longer grind than it currently is.

And to the ppl even disputing this go do some research on the console and FPS community in general because last i checked CCP is trying to attract a DIFFERENT audience that may not be into EVE style play but interested in the universe so this means certain aspects of gameplay would have to be fundamentally different....thats just common sense.

What you are missing is the entire point of Dust. Which admittedly hasn't really been shown yet.
Like in EVE the point of Dust isn't character advancement. The advancement makes it meaningful and deep.

The actual day to day gameplay is about game play not skills. So for people like you who just don't get it, effecting the game and making money and playing the way you want to is what the game is meant for.

Owning districts, defending your districts, attacking others districts, effecting the faction war sov that is what keeps people playing and that is the reward for playing. What makes the whole thing meaningful and a deeply involved game is the very long term character progression and growth.

Giving character progression quickly and with little investment is what most other games do and is also why most other games come out with new versions and updates so often because the system very quickly feels cheap and unimportant because it becomes only about your next upgrade.

Here are the new base rates for a rank 1 skill:

Level 1 - 6,220 SP
Level 2 - 18,650 SP
Level 3 - 43,530 SP
Level 4 - 87,060 SP
Level 5 - 155,460 SP

We'll have to see how the new build goes, but to me it looks like leveling happens far too quickly now.

Proto gear should take months, not weeks.

Here are the new base rates for a rank 1 skill:

Level 1 - 6,220 SP
Level 2 - 18,650 SP
Level 3 - 43,530 SP
Level 4 - 87,060 SP
Level 5 - 155,460 SP

Dewie, you a CFC member?

Test Alliance. Enlightened Industries to be exact. Why?

Knew it was something like that.

Just a hunch i got that's all. :D

Another quality post by Deadpool, the voice of reason from the FPS masses, Saviour of lost DCUO players, Destroyer of Clones and Hoarder of "Hot"exotic dancers, Stoner, all around good guy, Chiver.

(I've had too much coffee waiting for the servers to come back up)

As pointed out above, the two games are very different in terms of pacing. While it was necessary to align and cap the skill gain rates to EVE in order to have future compatibility, we don't necessarily need to share the same pacing. We also didn't want to drastically change the pacing we had, so the solution was to make DUST skills cheaper compared to EVE skills in terms of SP. The goal is to have a rewarding progression that lets you feel you can reach new shiny things by playing the game.

A smarter plan would be to add a delay to certain skills becomming available. I.E. don't put the proficiency skill books out for 2 months. Now Proto weapons can't be used. IMHO CCP deciding on the speed technology becomes useable technology. Not sure how that works with EvE ideals however.

Or adding a factor like EvE where it takes time to learn a skill. You put the SP in, but you won't get to USE it for a week? That sorta of thing is far better than putting a cap on.

Is this the result of boosting? Was this planned from the start? It'll make adapting to changing metas very tricky...

Thats not all skills, that's rank one skills.

Those rank 5 skills will still take 5x as much SP as started.

Bye... don't let the LAV door you damaged and repaired for SP hit you on the way out.

As pointed out above, the two games are very different in terms of pacing. While it was necessary to align and cap the skill gain rates to EVE in order to have future compatibility, we don't necessarily need to share the same pacing. We also didn't want to drastically change the pacing we had, so the solution was to make DUST skills cheaper compared to EVE skills in terms of SP. The goal is to have a rewarding progression that lets you feel you can reach new shiny things by playing the game.

Oh god. People are so off track it's ridiculous. All of you please climb off you CoD bashing chairs please.
Counterstrike. Unreal. Quake. There is no levelling up, grinding for stuff/skills. Why do people STILL play these games 15 years after they came out? Game play. The whole, "I don't want to reach endgame too fast" is a joke. No FPS player REALLY cares about the skills or SP. We just want to shoot face. If the gameplay is right, nothing else matters. Not ISK/AUR/SP/SOV. Gameplay and clan mates are what keeps people comming back.

What I'm trying to say is SP should not be the reason to play an FPS... Which for many it seems to be...

Q. I maxed all my skills?!? What do I do?!?!
A. Go kill people

Also one thing about EVE skill progression is that once you have played long enough (+70mil SP or 4-5 years) your skill training times start to become meaningless because by that time you have maximed skills that you need to be successful in your daily activities and have enough to spare so that you don't need to care about how long you train your next skills.

DUST however is still a long way from being diverse enough to make you forget about skill grinding and being happy with skill set you currently have for months to an end.

Stop ******* crying about it like a babby and man up and accept that no amount of you crying on the forums is going to change it.

Just get on with it and stop shitting up threads.


I'm honestly not sure if passive and active SP will be seperate after going over the patch notes again, there's a line in there saying that there is a hard cap so it's possible that your passive SP will stop too.

I wonder if CCP will keep the SP gained from boosters seperate to the SP gained from passive or active SP gain?

Here are the new base rates for a rank 1 skill:

Level 1 - 6,220 SP
Level 2 - 18,650 SP
Level 3 - 43,530 SP
Level 4 - 87,060 SP
Level 5 - 155,460 SP

Oh god. People are so off track it's ridiculous. All of you please climb off you CoD bashing chairs please.
Counterstrike. Unreal. Quake. There is no levelling up, grinding for stuff/skills. Why do people STILL play these games 15 years after they came out? Game play. The whole, "I don't want to reach endgame too fast" is a joke. No FPS player REALLY cares about the skills or SP. We just want to shoot face. If the gameplay is right, nothing else matters. Not ISK/AUR/SP/SOV. Gameplay and clan mates are what keeps people comming back.

What I'm trying to say is SP should not be the reason to play an FPS... Which for many it seems to be...

Q. I maxed all my skills?!? What do I do?!?!
A. Go kill people

Quite right Tony, I've said this too , how many times.

The gameplay in this sucks. I can't see many, if any at all playing this. FPS fans that is, I hardly bother now, neither does anyone else I know. We've done all there is to do so come on end of Nov.

Quite right Tony, I've said this too , how many times.

The gameplay in this sucks. I can't see many, if any at all playing this. FPS fans that is, I hardly bother now, neither does anyone else I know. We've done all there is to do so come on end of Nov.

Funny how you've stopped since you can't abuse mechanics for SP anymore.

yeaaaaaaaa.....................game would just lose a large chunk of its already predicted low playerbase if u can only gain 512K per WEEK.

i said this before and i will continue to say this again cuz like sometimes ppl just dont get it.

What works for EVE wont always translate well into a FPS, there are 2 different games with 2 different communities. Passive SP gain and caps may work in EVE but for a FPS where the majority of ppl play to get new gear and unlock kool stuff and feel generally REWARDED for their time they put in this move will turn ppl off if its gonna be an even longer grind than it currently is.

And to the ppl even disputing this go do some research on the console and FPS community in general because last i checked CCP is trying to attract a DIFFERENT audience that may not be into EVE style play but interested in the universe so this means certain aspects of gameplay would have to be fundamentally different....thats just common sense.

I love the fact, that Cerebral, leader of GOONfeet, doesn't realise why you do it. To troll, and grief and generally arse about. The gameplay literally boils down to camping. Let them walk around the corner and kill em. Certainly don't walk around that corner yourself. You'll die.

Give me strafe speed. Give me gameplay. I don't care about warriors boosting underground Dropships. I care about game play, which is too slow, and far too heavily stacked on defense.

they are going back to other games thats the problem. if http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/server_status.php is correct this game has way less players than at the begining of the last build. say it's beta or whatever, players are turning away. can't make money off that. ongoing money anyway.


anyway back to another game.........

I love the fact, that Cerebral, leader of GOONfeet, doesn't realise why you do it. To troll, and grief and generally arse about. The gameplay literally boils down to camping. Let them walk around the corner and kill em. Certainly don't walk around that corner yourself. You'll die.

Give me strafe speed. Give me gameplay. I don't care about warriors boosting underground Dropships. I care about game play, which is too slow, and far too heavily stacked on defense.

*isn't a pointy clicker*

But the boosters and quick scopers get it...

Right ice?

EVE players log in and play, even though it makes absolutely no difference to their SP gain.

The incentive to play is having fun playing the game.

Your not getting the point. There will be no dust 514-2. This game will go on to the ps4 as dust 514. Same characters will carry over. Sorry to bust your fps bubble but this game was made to be groundbreaking. Doing what no fps or rpg has done to date. Its not a normal console game. Wasn't meant to be. That's what u don't get. Its a pc mmo on console. Treat it as such. Don't like it? Play something else. I'm sure dust 514 will be ok without u. Don't believe me? Give it a try. We will see who lasts. People have been playing eve for ten years now. And its skill tree is larger. Just because it doesn't fit the fps niche market doesn't mean it will fail. Tbh I believe the more it tries to fit the fps niche the more it will fail because its not a fps..

As pointed out above, the two games are very different in terms of pacing. While it was necessary to align and cap the skill gain rates to EVE in order to have future compatibility, we don't necessarily need to share the same pacing. We also didn't want to drastically change the pacing we had, so the solution was to make DUST skills cheaper compared to EVE skills in terms of SP. The goal is to have a rewarding progression that lets you feel you can reach new shiny things by playing the game.

*isn't a pointy clicker*

But the boosters and quick scopers get it...

Right ice?

Played this beta for 8 months, boosted two weeks on discovering the flaw, never tried to keep it secret at all.
In other words about 5% of our playing time in total. Because of us we now have CCPs panic solution because they didn't think it through in the first place.
The skill tree and skill cap is a joke tbh, 7year tree, lol.
So guy A starts playing and 2 years later guy B starts, who has the advantage ?.
How many do you honestly think will stick with a 7 year tree, people get sick of the same game after a year or two.
Make the tree 6 months to a year so no one gets a huge advantage and can just concentrate on playing the game.
If it's worth it that is. Form what I've seen so far I highly doubt it.
7 year tree in a console FPS. lol. gimmee a break.

Quick remark. A guy who plays hard 2 years without SP cap vs a regular player who starts the game 2 years later. It's gonna be Waaaaaaay worse than without SP Cap.

Now, regarding the 7 years skill tree. I dont think we're even close to 7 years. I think it's the time needed to max everything based on passive skilling only. May be wrong but i dont see sevn years in the current skill tree, even with SP cap.

Finally, why do you hate so much being unable to complete every skill in the game on a short period ? This is seriously not an attack, just a real question. Cause personnaly, being a long-time FPS player, i very fond of the idea that a game can last a long time and still offer you a feeling of progression (especially with free expansions thus new skills etc..) compared to games where you just start everything back at square one every now and then. Planetary conquest and EVE integration being two more elements that goes into this same way of never-ending challenge.

Your not getting the point. There will be no dust 514-2. This game will go on to the ps4 as dust 514. Same characters will carry over. Sorry to bust your fps bubble but this game was made to be groundbreaking. Doing what no fps or rpg has done to date. Its not a normal console game. Wasn't meant to be. That's what u don't get. Its a pc mmo on console. Treat it as such. Don't like it? Play something else. I'm sure dust 514 will be ok without u. Don't believe me? Give it a try. We will see who lasts. People have been playing eve for ten years now. And its skill tree is larger. Just because it doesn't fit the fps niche market doesn't mean it will fail. Tbh I believe the more it tries to fit the fps niche the more it will fail because its not a fps..