DUST Search - EVE SP Gains for the unwashed masses.

Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:

Not totally true, MMO's are based around getting near items and unlocking things all the time, EVE bucked that trend and proved you don't have to be a WoW clone to be a good MMO, Dust has the same intentions.

You really can bleat on like a sheep all you like and follow the rest of the babys crying about it and continue to write things in bold if you feel it makes a difference or if it even makes you feel better..

But either way, your reading comprehension skills need some work, i said clearly that it's all speculation and i could be wrong and as i said above, the patch notes say it's making things in line with EVE, i'm pointing out how things work in EVE.

If you read the whole thread rather than sperging you'd see we've already discussed that the skill costs are too high currently if they leave them as they are when they bring the SP into line with EVE as per the patch notes.

Maybe you'd even have noticed where the SP required for EVE skills was posted and how it's considerably lower and actually quite well balanced when you look at the whole picture.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Phoenix Archer 128 Better Hide R Die 89	Posted - 2012.09.30 17:00:00 - [31] - Quote Just a question, but didn't the patch notes say that the SP costs are being brought in-line with EVE's? So the discrepancy we see now will go away, and the SP costs will be the same for both games. So the lower SP gain rate won't really matter; you'll gain a similar rate as before, its just the numbers have changed.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2012.09.30 17:08:00 - [32] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: I refuse to believe that Dust will have a weekly cap of about 400k, if that's what you're implying. Refuse it all you want. You'll see next week that i'm really not that far off. I wouldn't be surprised to see them push it about 512k/524k but it wont be much higher than that i expect. I could be wrong. But its not often i am. yeaaaaaaaa.....................game would just lose a large chunk of its already predicted low playerbase if u can only gain 512K per WEEK. i said this before and i will continue to say this again cuz like sometimes ppl just dont get it. What works for EVE wont always translate well into a FPS, there are 2 different games with 2 different communities. Passive SP gain and caps may work in EVE but for a FPS where the majority of ppl play to get new gear and unlock kool stuff and feel generally REWARDED for their time they put in this move will turn ppl off if its gonna be an even longer grind than it currently is. And to the ppl even disputing this go do some research on the console and FPS community in general because last i checked CCP is trying to attract a DIFFERENT audience that may not be into EVE style play but interested in the universe so this means certain aspects of gameplay would have to be fundamentally different....thats just common sense.
Eskel Bondfree DUST University Ivy League 76	Posted - 2012.09.30 17:18:00 - [33] - Quote Dewie Cheecham wrote: Remember the malcontent when they removed teh 4x SP gain multiplier a few builds ago? Imagine having people suddenly earning only a few hundred SP per battle... :P I believe there is still a 2x multiplier in effect, because this build (precursor) we were getting half the SP we used to get last build. Also, passive SP income in Dust is about 1k SP per hour, not 3000 as someone stated earlier ( about 720k SP per month).
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.09.30 17:23:00 - [34] - Quote Not totally true, MMO's are based around getting near items and unlocking things all the time, EVE bucked that trend and proved you don't have to be a WoW clone to be a good MMO, Dust has the same intentions. You really can bleat on like a sheep all you like and follow the rest of the babys crying about it and continue to write things in bold if you feel it makes a difference or if it even makes you feel better.. But either way, your reading comprehension skills need some work, i said clearly that it's all speculation and i could be wrong and as i said above, the patch notes say it's making things in line with EVE, i'm pointing out how things work in EVE. If you read the whole thread rather than sperging you'd see we've already discussed that the skill costs are too high currently if they leave them as they are when they bring the SP into line with EVE as per the patch notes. Maybe you'd even have noticed where the SP required for EVE skills was posted and how it's considerably lower and actually quite well balanced when you look at the whole picture.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.09.30 17:34:00 - [35] - Quote All in all, we should see what the skill cap is. But I don't like hard caps like this.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.09.30 17:36:00 - [36] - Quote Give it about 48 hours and we'll know exactly how much the cap is because you can be sure someone's not seen the patch notes, will play like a speg tomorrow and will hit the cap and post 12 threads sperging about it,.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2012.09.30 17:46:00 - [37] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Give it about 48 hours and we'll know exactly how much the cap is because you can be sure someone's not seen the patch notes, will play like a speg tomorrow and will hit the cap and post 12 threads sperging about it,. and its exactly that that will stop ppl from playing ok i hit the cap for this week in 1-2 days. see u next week....off to play cod/moh/borderlands will be the players mindset as there is no longer any real incentive to keep playing. player count then drops at specific times later in the week because of this. but im awaiting to see how big or small the actual cap is 1st and how fast someone can reach it but like tony said not a fan of hard caps tbh
Tarn Adari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 157	Posted - 2012.09.30 18:06:00 - [38] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Not totally true, MMO's are based around getting near items and unlocking things all the time, EVE bucked that trend and proved you don't have to be a WoW clone to be a good MMO, Dust has the same intentions. You really can bleat on like a sheep all you like and follow the rest of the babys crying about it and continue to write things in bold if you feel it makes a difference or if it even makes you feel better.. But either way, your reading comprehension skills need some work, i said clearly that it's all speculation and i could be wrong and as i said above, the patch notes say it's making things in line with EVE, i'm pointing out how things work in EVE. If you read the whole thread rather than sperging you'd see we've already discussed that the skill costs are too high currently if they leave them as they are when they bring the SP into line with EVE as per the patch notes. Maybe you'd even have noticed where the SP required for EVE skills was posted and how it's considerably lower and actually quite well balanced when you look at the whole picture. The SPs needed to upgrade a skill doesn't matter. Nor does the fact that this is a FPS and not a RPG. The issue is F2P. I said already, passive SP gain only might work in a subscription based game, but will not in F2P. If the SP requirements per level are the same as in EVE, people will still not play the game or buy Aurum, when they get the same SPs for not playing. (Yes, you get ISK and Loot for playing, but without the skills, they are useless) To make a F2P game work, you need two things: you need to make people play it and then make them spend money on ingame items. The latter is easily achieved through vanity. AUR items are little status symbols; 'look at me, I have a green dropsuit and yours is gray! I am better than you, because I have more money'. Just like a big car, just smaller. Of course this works even better, when you have many players. If there is no one around, it is hard to feel superior to them. And while many people might try a F2P game, you have to keep them around, and the way you do this is addiction. The best way to addict a player to your game is offering small, frequent and (most importantly) instantaneous rewards (just like drugs()). You do something, you get rewarded, your brain tells you to do it over and over again. Stuff that works for subscription or retail games don't work in F2P. In retail games, you pay first and then you can play. The need to addict players is much smaller (mainly to prevent used sales - sadly publishers are greedy, but that doesn't really belong here). Subscription based games like WoW are similar to F2P games, but due to the upfront payment, the player's emotional investment in his account is at a higher base value. The free month or two you get for buying the game helps a lot, too. Just like with retail games, you already bought something, and you want to use it. After you exhausted your free time, you have a big enough connection to your account, and you get or extend your subscription. In EVE, there is yet another thing, and I think that is a big reason why passive SP only works: you can earn additional playtime by playing the game (PLEX). If you play enough, you can continue playing without paying more money. So people play much, connect to their characters and when they somehow don't manage to make enough ISK for another PLEX, they are very likely to buy some playtime. () if you think I am a bit cynical...this is sadly how the industry works...how humans work.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.09.30 21:41:00 - [39] - Quote You've all missed out on the territory control aspect and the wars and rivalry and thats whats going to keep people logging in,
Shiro Mokuzan 220	Posted - 2012.09.30 21:56:00 - [40] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Give it about 48 hours and we'll know exactly how much the cap is because you can be sure someone's not seen the patch notes, will play like a speg tomorrow and will hit the cap and post 12 threads sperging about it,. and its exactly that that will stop ppl from playing ok i hit the cap for this week in 1-2 days. see u next week....off to play cod/moh/borderlands will be the players mindset as there is no longer any real incentive to keep playing. player count then drops at specific times later in the week because of this. but im awaiting to see how big or small the actual cap is 1st and how fast someone can reach it but like tony said not a fan of hard caps tbh EVE players log in and play, even though it makes absolutely no difference to their SP gain. The incentive to play is having fun playing the game.

Shiro Mokuzan 220	Posted - 2012.09.30 21:58:00 - [41] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: You've all missed out on the territory control aspect and the wars and rivalry and thats whats going to keep people logging in, This. This is the point if the game and the incentive to play, not increasing SP totals.
ICECREAMK1NG WARRIORS 134	Posted - 2012.09.30 22:06:00 - [42] - Quote This is cool, I will be able to invest the time I wanted to in FC3 now, I just need to come back here once a week, if I can be bothered. Or if there is anyone left playing.
Ad ski IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 209	Posted - 2012.09.30 23:18:00 - [43] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: You've all missed out on the territory control aspect and the wars and rivalry and thats whats going to keep people logging in, Some people might not want to play those kind of things and just stick to instant battle etc. If you want a broader audience giving them to option to play all the things offered without limiting them is the way to go. Look at call of duty black ops, plenty of people play it for the zombies, plenty of play it for the online in general and plenty play it for a bit of both.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.09.30 23:20:00 - [44] - Quote Ad ski wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: You've all missed out on the territory control aspect and the wars and rivalry and thats whats going to keep people logging in, Some people might not want to play those kind of things and just stick to instant battle etc. If you want a broader audience giving them to option to play all the things offered without limiting them is the way to go. Look at call of duty black ops, plenty of people play it for the zombies, plenty of play it for the online in general and plenty play it for a bit of both. I don't need to look it up, i have and do play it.
Necrodermis GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 460	Posted - 2012.09.30 23:26:00 - [45] - Quote other games have tried this method and quickly changed after people quit playing. Dust isn't EVE and trying to do that will literally kill the fans. then all that will be left is EVE players. be prepared to join a battle and see one or two other people because why bother playing if you aren't going to be rewarded for it.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.09.30 23:28:00 - [46] - Quote We'll see i guess, the selling point for Dust is not being rewarded after ever match though. The selling point for Dust is tears and dominating other groups, the drama and metagame.
HK-40 120	Posted - 2012.09.30 23:43:00 - [47] - Quote To be honest, if it discourages some of the more annoying spergers and leets from playing then more power to CCP. Those types generally kitten up anything they touch anyway. Very interesting dynamic with EVE. It doesn't have as many players as most big online games, however the ones who do play are far more loyal, and willing to dig into their pockets. Something to do with the game requiring a bit of maturity and patience to play and understand, I guess. All imo of course.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.09.30 23:48:00 - [48] - Quote I think the brutality of EVE also attracts people it, i know that's what got myself and a lot of other goons involved. It allows us to feed our inner sociopath.
Necrodermis GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 460	Posted - 2012.10.01 00:01:00 - [49] - Quote HK-40 wrote: To be honest, if it discourages some of the more annoying spergers and leets from playing then more power to CCP. Those types generally kitten up anything they touch anyway. Very interesting dynamic with EVE. It doesn't have as many players as most big online games, however the ones who do play are far more loyal, and willing to dig into their pockets. Something to do with the game requiring a bit of maturity and patience to play and understand, I guess. All imo of course. i am actually coming around to the idea of it. because really if people get tons of SP and fill up all their slots they will more likely quit playing because they filled up everything. giving a balance between SP each match to make it so you don't just pile up SP quickly is a fine balance. give too much you lower the life of the game, give too little you will have lots of people lose interest in the grind fest. trying to find that line is definitely going to be a challenge.
The Robot Devil 45	Posted - 2012.10.01 00:24:00 - [50] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: I refuse to believe that Dust will have a weekly cap of about 400k, if that's what you're implying. Refuse it all you want. You'll see next week that i'm really not that far off. I wouldn't be surprised to see them push it about 512k/524k but it wont be much higher than that i expect. I could be wrong. But its not often i am. I hope you're correct.

ICECREAMK1NG WARRIORS 134	Posted - 2012.10.01 00:29:00 - [51] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: I refuse to believe that Dust will have a weekly cap of about 400k, if that's what you're implying. Refuse it all you want. You'll see next week that i'm really not that far off. I wouldn't be surprised to see them push it about 512k/524k but it wont be much higher than that i expect. I could be wrong. But its not often i am. I hope you're correct. lol.... 2 games I'm done.
The Robot Devil 45	Posted - 2012.10.01 00:32:00 - [52] - Quote Necrodermis wrote: other games have tried this method and quickly changed after people quit playing. Dust isn't EVE and trying to do that will literally kill the fans. then all that will be left is EVE players. be prepared to join a battle and see one or two other people because why bother playing if you aren't going to be rewarded for it. SP is not the only reason to play. Owning a planet or solar system is pretty nice. Why is SP gain the only thing people want?
Necrodermis GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 460	Posted - 2012.10.01 00:34:00 - [53] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: SP is not the only reason to play. Owning a planet or solar system is pretty nice. if you're the EVE player. so far not much is known about how the dust players fit into it all. if they will be building the instillation and cities or if they are strictly going to be take the EVE players cities or instillation.
HK-40 120	Posted - 2012.10.01 00:41:00 - [54] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Necrodermis wrote: other games have tried this method and quickly changed after people quit playing. Dust isn't EVE and trying to do that will literally kill the fans. then all that will be left is EVE players. be prepared to join a battle and see one or two other people because why bother playing if you aren't going to be rewarded for it. SP is not the only reason to play. Owning a planet or solar system is pretty nice. Why is SP gain the only thing people want? Because they don't understand the world they are entering? Most people complaining about the SP issue seem to be CoD or other FPS in general. Capturing objectives for the good of the Corporation or long term objectives don't generally enter into it for those games. Its all about KDR and chest beating. The learning curve will be interesting.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.10.01 00:47:00 - [55] - Quote It will be interesting to see how their attitude adjusts when they have to invest several million isk into an installation on a planet and are responsible for defending it.
ICECREAMK1NG WARRIORS 134	Posted - 2012.10.01 00:55:00 - [56] - Quote omg..... Listen to yourselves....... This is a console fps VIDEO GAME. I know EVE may be your whole lives and what your world revolves around. You probably even got the tattoo and T shirt. Do you really think gamers who play shooters give a toss. NO..... They don't........... It's a GAME......
HK-40 120	Posted - 2012.10.01 00:56:00 - [57] - Quote ICECREAMK1NG WARRIORS wrote: omg..... Listen to yourselves....... This is a console fps VIDEO GAME. I know EVE may be your whole lives and what your world revolves around. You probably even got the tattoo and T shirt. Do you really think gamers who play shooters give a toss. NO..... They don't........... It's a GAME...... Ok dude, calm down. Go repair a dropship or something until your blood pressure is under control
Necrodermis GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 460	Posted - 2012.10.01 00:56:00 - [58] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: It will be interesting to see how their attitude adjusts when they have to invest several million isk into an installation on a planet and are responsible for defending it. then another corp comes along and takes it from them without issues. yeah, that would go over real well. totally going to have them keep playing a game. yeah that is why i don't think dust players are going to be the ones owning the planets. the eve players simply build the sand castles and dust players run on them. the sand castles will trade corps multiple times while people make money.
The Robot Devil 45	Posted - 2012.10.01 01:24:00 - [59] - Quote I don't know anything about sovereignty in EVE because I'm an explorer. I thought if you were a CEO of a corp you could take over planets and systems. The point is that now DUSTers can start corps and let pilots join from EVE. That means any of use could be a CEO and own something.
Necrodermis GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 460	Posted - 2012.10.01 03:43:00 - [60] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: I don't know anything about sovereignty in EVE because I'm an explorer. I thought if you were a CEO of a corp you could take over planets and systems. The point is that now DUSTers can start corps and let pilots join from EVE. That means any of use could be a CEO and own something. you can only take systems in nullsec and even then it takes time, first it's destroy the resident's presence (station bash) and then there is another step involving sovereignty blockades, territorial control unit, anchoring your own station in system and various other things i am skipping because i don't know all the details. its all here. nothing involves the planets. no one has any idea how they are going to incorporate planets into it. all this talk about "factional warfare" just seems fishy to me. it's all just speculation and CCP has a tight lip.



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