DUST Search - EVE SP Gains for the unwashed masses.

Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:

Tarn Adari wrote:

Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:

Bendtner92 wrote:

I refuse to believe that Dust will have a weekly cap of about 400k, if that's what you're implying.

Refuse it all you want. You'll see next week that i'm really not that far off.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them push it about 512k/524k but it wont be much higher than that i expect.
I could be wrong. But its not often i am.

I have no empirical values regarding your last statement, but this time, you are so wrong, you couldn't be more wrong. We already get roughly 3000SP/h passively. In your scenario, that would be all we get ever. No SP for fighting at all. This would just not work. Why would we even want to risk anything or invest money, if it doesn't matter if we play or not? It works for EVE, since it is subscription based. As long as your character gains SP, you have already paid for the game time, so you would also play, if you don't want to spend money on not playing. Dust, however, is F2P. You could just create a character, and then play something else for a year. When you get back, you have 20m SP to spend and CCP got not a single cent.

If CCP wants Dust to be played and make money with it, they have to reward the players for playing it.

I play a hour or two every day, not that much, some days i dont even log in, i have 15m sp. Thats' way, way, way too much.

I can only imagine how much some of the more dedicated players have.

I said in the OP that i could be wrong, whats wrong with putting out information about how its in done in eve for comparison and theorycrafting? Are you such a sperg you feel the need to **** up every thread you don't totally agree with?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.09.30 14:15:00 - [1] - Quote For those of you who have the attention span of a goldfish and can't get into EVE i think it's worth sharing with you the SP gains on EVE so you know what to expect on Codex, it was stated in the patch notes that the SP caps have been put into place to bring it in line with EVE SP gains. At the moment, without implants and assuming you're training the correct skills for your characters abilitys (I.E having all your points in perception and willpower) will generate roughly 2250 SP per hour. Now in EVE you can buy implants and plug them into your head which give you a bonus to your attributes and the sets can be anything from +1 per attribute to +5 which can then raise your SP per hour to a maximum of 2700 SP per hour. Using those figures it's a safe bet that the caps will be something like this: No Implants; 2250 per hour 54,000 per day 1,620,000 per month on a 30 day month average. With implants: 2700 per hour 64,800 per day 1,944,000 per month. Now, i'm going to make a prediction and that is that the SP boosters will not effect your SP cap. I could be wrong, but i think CPP are going to use boosters as Dusts version of implants. Which if i'm right would mean you could earn up to as much as: 2,916,000 SP per month using a booster. But again, i could be wrong.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.09.30 14:16:00 - [2] - Quote 7 months to get to the lvl I am at now.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 369	Posted - 2012.09.30 14:20:00 - [3] - Quote I refuse to believe that Dust will have a weekly cap of about 400k, if that's what you're implying.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.09.30 14:22:00 - [4] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: I refuse to believe that Dust will have a weekly cap of about 400k, if that's what you're implying. Refuse it all you want. You'll see next week that i'm really not that far off. I wouldn't be surprised to see them push it about 512k/524k but it wont be much higher than that i expect. I could be wrong. But its not often i am.
Odiain Suliis 39	Posted - 2012.09.30 14:26:00 - [5] - Quote Quote: Skill rewards * Skill points are now awarded from battles based on time spent as well as warpoints earned. * Diminishing returns for skill points earned from battles are now on a 7-day cycle that resets at downtime every Tuesday (used to reset every day at downtime) * Skill point accrual has been rebalanced and now has a hard cap per week that corresponds to EVE Online * Skill rewards are now also awarded at the end of each battle to players who participated but werenGÇÖt present the end of the battle (e.g. crashed/disconnected/left) Looked again this section. All other points are talking about 'active SP' gain. So are we certain that this weekly SP cap is for active SP + passive SP ? Or is it only for active SP?
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.09.30 14:32:00 - [6] - Quote I would assume it's for Active SP and not passive SP.
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.09.30 14:34:00 - [7] - Quote The overall idea is good Cerebral, and I do concur. However we have to take into account that SP cost for the various ranks in DUST is dramatically higher than in EVE. Have a look at these numbers. They are derived from what I've seen in game, and follow the EVE strategy quite well, except for the base values. A rank 20 for a given level cost 20 time the SP for a rank 1. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApXBj3IzrWnydE5iSWo5MTFMN3NlSjJZTUpFZXlvaGc Rank one in Dust have the following SP: 10,240 40,960 112,640 256,000 and 512,000 Compare that to EVE, where a rank one skill have the following SP: 250 1,415 8,000 45,255 and 256,000 At level 5 EVE only uses half the SP for a given skill, but Dust has a much steeper entry.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.09.30 14:39:00 - [8] - Quote Nice find i'd not thought of comparing EVE and Dust SP costs on skills. I wonder if they will change SP costs to bring them in line? They use to be quite low and the SP price's was raised due to the amount of SP people happened to be gaining.
Icy Tiger 496	Posted - 2012.09.30 14:41:00 - [9] - Quote What about active SP gain? They have included major changes to this, along with the battle time SP gain. That, and the diminishing returns were probably reduced.
ThatGUYisSO GOOOOOOOOOOD 8	Posted - 2012.09.30 14:44:00 - [10] - Quote GCC Breaking News DUST has now become Time played> GUN GAME

Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.09.30 14:50:00 - [11] - Quote ThatGUYisSO GOOOOOOOOOOD wrote: GCC Breaking News DUST has now become Time played> GUN GAME http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WHptG35EWU
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.09.30 14:54:00 - [12] - Quote ThatGUYisSO GOOOOOOOOOOD wrote: GCC Breaking News DUST has now become Time played> GUN GAME Stop ******* crying about it like a babby and man up and accept that no amount of you crying on the forums is going to change it. Just get on with it and stop shitting up threads. I'm honestly not sure if passive and active SP will be seperate after going over the patch notes again, there's a line in there saying that there is a hard cap so it's possible that your passive SP will stop too. I wonder if CCP will keep the SP gained from boosters seperate to the SP gained from passive or active SP gain?
Needless Sacermendor 98	Posted - 2012.09.30 15:25:00 - [13] - Quote OPs calculation said the booster was like the implants ... but then added its effect to the implanted values to get near 3 mil sp per month. I'd imagine you'd add the booster to the non-implanted value and get closer to 2.4 mil per month. However as above the balances in points spent into skills is off so maybe we'll either see an increase in gain or a reduction in skill levelling costs ... or maybe they just not considered that yet, this is what beta is for though, too see what's not been though out thoroughly. My understanding of the cap would be a finite cap to weekly gain ie. you can't get any more through passive or active, as in Eve there is a cap, training an optimum skill with all +5s will get you a fixed amount of sp per week. It's all speculation anyway, let's just see how it plays out and hope it's a little less frustratingly buggy :-)
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.09.30 15:53:00 - [14] - Quote 7 months to get where I am now... I cba. Sorry.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.09.30 15:55:00 - [15] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: 7 months to get where I am now... I cba. Sorry. Yes, to use the same gear you use now, but everyone else will be in the same boat so you'll be at the same level and using the same type of equipment as them assuming you pick the same skills.
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.09.30 16:01:00 - [16] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Nice find i'd not thought of comparing EVE and Dust SP costs on skills. I wonder if they will change SP costs to bring them in line? They use to be quite low and the SP price's was raised due to the amount of SP people happened to be gaining. The Dust SP cost per level have been this way at lesat since they opened the Beta after the fanfest, however they have increased the Rank on some skills if I recall. I do hope they respec the SP and bring it in line with the EVE SP, especially if they plan on lowering the SP gain to something more akin to EVE.
Odiain Suliis 39	Posted - 2012.09.30 16:05:00 - [17] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: 7 months to get where I am now... I cba. Sorry. And don't we froget the 2mil that we got from corp battles. Thats roughly 1month free SP, according to OP math.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.09.30 16:07:00 - [18] - Quote Dewie Cheecham wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Nice find i'd not thought of comparing EVE and Dust SP costs on skills. I wonder if they will change SP costs to bring them in line? They use to be quite low and the SP price's was raised due to the amount of SP people happened to be gaining. The Dust SP cost per level have been this way at lesat since they opened the Beta after the fanfest, however they have increased the Rank on some skills if I recall. I do hope they respec the SP and bring it in line with the EVE SP, especially if they plan on lowering the SP gain to something more akin to EVE. It would be nice to have level 1 skills being filled by capping a single objective or two but keeping the larger skills requiring a month or so of training.
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.09.30 16:15:00 - [19] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Dewie Cheecham wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Nice find i'd not thought of comparing EVE and Dust SP costs on skills. I wonder if they will change SP costs to bring them in line? They use to be quite low and the SP price's was raised due to the amount of SP people happened to be gaining. The Dust SP cost per level have been this way at lesat since they opened the Beta after the fanfest, however they have increased the Rank on some skills if I recall. I do hope they respec the SP and bring it in line with the EVE SP, especially if they plan on lowering the SP gain to something more akin to EVE. It would be nice to have level 1 skills being filled by capping a single objective or two but keeping the larger skills requiring a month or so of training. No argument there. It is not an easy balance to strike. Console players want to be rewarded per round, byt both ISK and SP I guess. I hope CCP can crack the nut to everyones satisfaction. Remember the malcontent when they removed teh 4x SP gain multiplier a few builds ago? Imagine having people suddenly earning only a few hundred SP per battle... :P
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.09.30 16:16:00 - [20] - Quote A smarter plan would be to add a delay to certain skills becomming available. I.E. don't put the proficiency skill books out for 2 months. Now Proto weapons can't be used. IMHO CCP deciding on the speed technology becomes useable technology. Not sure how that works with EvE ideals however. Or adding a factor like EvE where it takes time to learn a skill. You put the SP in, but you won't get to USE it for a week? That sorta of thing is far better than putting a cap on. Is this the result of boosting? Was this planned from the start? It'll make adapting to changing metas very tricky...

EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.09.30 16:25:00 - [21] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: A smarter plan would be to add a delay to certain skills becomming available. I.E. don't put the proficiency skill books out for 2 months. Now Proto weapons can't be used. IMHO CCP deciding on the speed technology becomes useable technology. Not sure how that works with EvE ideals however. Or adding a factor like EvE where it takes time to learn a skill. You put the SP in, but you won't get to USE it for a week? That sorta of thing is far better than putting a cap on. Is this the result of boosting? Was this planned from the start? It'll make adapting to changing metas very tricky... Sounds like you want to unlock everything in a week Be happy it isnt the EVE way or you would be crying
Tyler Hall Algintal Core Gallente Federation 47	Posted - 2012.09.30 16:31:00 - [22] - Quote Same universe s Eve = Same SP gain scale. i don't totaly agree, but i'm willig to give i shot (like we have a choice.) I don't mind having to wait for something, always gives you something to play for. now that i've been, or gunna be, wied twice have a pretty good idea what i want to train in anyhow. at least we won't be training in bunch of "dumb" stuff that doesn't suit the play stye we have, unlike many of the new mercs coming in.
DH STARBURNER420 Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2012.09.30 16:36:00 - [23] - Quote Remember ccp stating it will take 7 years to max skills, this is where they plan to put you one day.. 7 years. better then 26 years in eve I guess lol.. but no more 8 mil SP a week.. them days be gone, I'm sure they lower the cap next build too
Knightshade Belladonna Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 288	Posted - 2012.09.30 16:37:00 - [24] - Quote lol
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.09.30 16:38:00 - [25] - Quote DH STARBURNER420 wrote: Remember ccp stating it will take 7 years to max skills, this is where they plan to put us one day.. 7 years. better then 26 years in eve I guess lol.. but no more 8 mil SP a week.. them days be gone, I'm sure they lower the cap next build too EVE is a little more than 26 years if I recall. If I recall I tried to start adding them up, I got less than half way and were already well in the twenties.
Tarn Adari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 157	Posted - 2012.09.30 16:47:00 - [26] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: I refuse to believe that Dust will have a weekly cap of about 400k, if that's what you're implying. Refuse it all you want. You'll see next week that i'm really not that far off. I wouldn't be surprised to see them push it about 512k/524k but it wont be much higher than that i expect. I could be wrong. But its not often i am. I have no empirical values regarding your last statement, but this time, you are so wrong, you couldn't be more wrong. We already get roughly 3000SP/h passively. In your scenario, that would be all we get ever. No SP for fighting at all. This would just not work. Why would we even want to risk anything or invest money, if it doesn't matter if we play or not? It works for EVE, since it is subscription based. As long as your character gains SP, you have already paid for the game time, so you would also play, if you don't want to spend money on not playing. Dust, however, is F2P. You could just create a character, and then play something else for a year. When you get back, you have 20m SP to spend and CCP got not a single cent. If CCP wants Dust to be played and make money with it, they have to reward the players for playing it.
crazy space ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2012.09.30 16:49:00 - [27] - Quote ThatGUYisSO GOOOOOOOOOOD wrote: GCC Breaking News DUST has now become Time played> GUN GAME No it's the oppisite. In the current build if you only played twice a week you would now be something like 4 million sp. But someone who played like crazy is at 15 million sp. See the 2nd player has been playing longer so he has more skill points than me. Now with the change I would still get my 4 million sp, maybe even more with the change to decay. And the guy who plays nonstop every day only has 6 million sp. GOOD RIDDANCE.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.09.30 16:54:00 - [28] - Quote Tarn Adari wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: I refuse to believe that Dust will have a weekly cap of about 400k, if that's what you're implying. Refuse it all you want. You'll see next week that i'm really not that far off. I wouldn't be surprised to see them push it about 512k/524k but it wont be much higher than that i expect. I could be wrong. But its not often i am. I have no empirical values regarding your last statement, but this time, you are so wrong, you couldn't be more wrong. We already get roughly 3000SP/h passively. In your scenario, that would be all we get ever. No SP for fighting at all. This would just not work. Why would we even want to risk anything or invest money, if it doesn't matter if we play or not? It works for EVE, since it is subscription based. As long as your character gains SP, you have already paid for the game time, so you would also play, if you don't want to spend money on not playing. Dust, however, is F2P. You could just create a character, and then play something else for a year. When you get back, you have 20m SP to spend and CCP got not a single cent. If CCP wants Dust to be played and make money with it, they have to reward the players for playing it. I play a hour or two every day, not that much, some days i dont even log in, i have 15m sp. Thats' way, way, way too much. I can only imagine how much some of the more dedicated players have. I said in the OP that i could be wrong, whats wrong with putting out information about how its in done in eve for comparison and theorycrafting? Are you such a sperg you feel the need to **** up every thread you don't totally agree with?
Tarn Adari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 157	Posted - 2012.09.30 16:58:00 - [29] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Tarn Adari wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: I refuse to believe that Dust will have a weekly cap of about 400k, if that's what you're implying. Refuse it all you want. You'll see next week that i'm really not that far off. I wouldn't be surprised to see them push it about 512k/524k but it wont be much higher than that i expect. I could be wrong. But its not often i am. I have no empirical values regarding your last statement, but this time, you are so wrong, you couldn't be more wrong. We already get roughly 3000SP/h passively. In your scenario, that would be all we get ever. No SP for fighting at all. This would just not work. Why would we even want to risk anything or invest money, if it doesn't matter if we play or not? It works for EVE, since it is subscription based. As long as your character gains SP, you have already paid for the game time, so you would also play, if you don't want to spend money on not playing. Dust, however, is F2P. You could just create a character, and then play something else for a year. When you get back, you have 20m SP to spend and CCP got not a single cent. If CCP wants Dust to be played and make money with it, they have to reward the players for playing it. I play a hour or two every day, not that much, some days i dont even log in, i have 15m sp. Thats' way, way, way too much. I can only imagine how much some of the more dedicated players have. I said in the OP that i could be wrong, whats wrong with putting out information about how its in done in eve for comparison and theorycrafting? Are you such a sperg you feel the need to **** up every thread you don't totally agree with? I played for roughly three weeks (shortly after the last corp battle that would have rewarded me with 1m SP), and I have roughly 3m SP...don't think that's too much...I am still not able to use most advanced gear (I have the weapon skill needed, but not the PG/CPU for it, since my dropsuits are still at lvl1)...
Raynor Ragna 266	Posted - 2012.09.30 16:59:00 - [30] - Quote Dewie Cheecham wrote: The overall idea is good Cerebral, and I do concur. However we have to take into account that SP cost for the various ranks in DUST is dramatically higher than in EVE. Have a look at these numbers. They are derived from what I've seen in game, and follow the EVE strategy quite well, except for the base values. A rank 20 for a given level cost 20 time the SP for a rank 1. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApXBj3IzrWnydE5iSWo5MTFMN3NlSjJZTUpFZXlvaGc Rank one in Dust have the following SP: 10,240 40,960 112,640 256,000 and 512,000 Compare that to EVE, where a rank one skill have the following SP: 250 1,415 8,000 45,255 and 256,000 At level 5 EVE only uses half the SP for a given skill, but Dust has a much steeper entry. I really like Eves level curve better. Each level is 5x what you needed to train last time. In dust its something like 3, 1.5, 1.25, 1 of what you've trained total.



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