stupidest idea i have ever heard tbqh.....
you even posted why it is a TERRIBLE idea..."Unable to see where you are going due to slow turret / camera turning speed."

so by seperating the driver from the main gun you expect to make the tank weaker...yea not gunna work that way.

1) will make shooting infantry much easier, since gunner can just spam the cannon instead of you know having to worry about watching where he is driving and avoiding obstacles. can focus on av infantry while not having to worry about backing into a hill and getting stuck.
2) yes let me train a ton of SP then spend 1.5mil to fit this tank that im not gunna get a kill with....geniussssss. seriously ppl train for a tank for a reason..to be able to fire the main gun and farm infantry...you dont like it train some AV and make the tank pop rather easy if you spend the points on swarms or forge instead of lolprotoweapons or iwinnades.
3) comparing it to TRANSPORT vehicles...tank is a COMBAT vehicle, meaning it is designed to have the driver SHOOTING the main gun.
4) boost speed modules..what?? so the tank will be faster, driver can just drive, gunner can just shoot, and the tank is more balanced this way

tanks are balanced more due to the driver having to go stationary to make accurate shots. take away the turret and a tank is never gunna stop driving. forge guns destroy tanks so easily because the tanks have to stop to turn since they are trying to shoot infantry AND drive. dont know how many i have made drive into a building or hill and get stuck so i can easily blow them up

the way tanks are implemented in FPS works. the reason so many ppl have been complainin is imho that they spec into nothing but assault and have no AV weaponry and they get mad that their prototype ar cant take out a tank. and yes it takes a team in real life to operate a tank i know how that works. but this is a video game, and a futuristic one at that. no need to seperate the gunner from the driver, when it is working.

also seems to be getting lost that the tank is not designed to be infantry transport like the dropship and lav. thats why those 2 have no guns for driver.

while that works the major problem i see is ppl wont call in a tank becuae they cost 1+ mil for a good fit plus they arent guarenteed to have good gunners so it will be a rolling death trap

stupidest idea i have ever heard tbqh.....
you even posted why it is a TERRIBLE idea..."Unable to see where you are going due to slow turret / camera turning speed."

so by seperating the driver from the main gun you expect to make the tank weaker...yea not gunna work that way.

1) will make shooting infantry much easier, since gunner can just spam the cannon instead of you know having to worry about watching where he is driving and avoiding obstacles. can focus on av infantry while not having to worry about backing into a hill and getting stuck.
2) yes let me train a ton of SP then spend 1.5mil to fit this tank that im not gunna get a kill with....geniussssss. seriously ppl train for a tank for a reason..to be able to fire the main gun and farm infantry...you dont like it train some AV and make the tank pop rather easy if you spend the points on swarms or forge instead of lolprotoweapons or iwinnades.
3) comparing it to TRANSPORT vehicles...tank is a COMBAT vehicle, meaning it is designed to have the driver SHOOTING the main gun.
4) boost speed modules..what?? so the tank will be faster, driver can just drive, gunner can just shoot, and the tank is more balanced this way

tanks are balanced more due to the driver having to go stationary to make accurate shots. take away the turret and a tank is never gunna stop driving. forge guns destroy tanks so easily because the tanks have to stop to turn since they are trying to shoot infantry AND drive. dont know how many i have made drive into a building or hill and get stuck so i can easily blow them up

You Sir have not really understood the meaning of this thread. It's about creating complexity similar to dropships and LAVs, NOT about nerfing something. YES, a well coordinated tank with gunner and driver will work more effectively, BUT also requires more coordination and would resemble the tanks, as we know them, much better.

Oh and btw .. Tanks are support vehicles not Combat Vehicles. They are similar to the Cavalry in medieval times. They come in and flank the enemy or break through their lines. They do assault and need both crew and support concerning fuel and ammo (unlike the DUST tanks), but they can't win a fight on their own. With the current state of the game it seems the role has already been corrected by making them rely on infantry around them to stop forge gunners and swarmers.

Yep .. he didn't read it ... effective vehicles should be a team effort. They should reward team play and coordination. the stronger the vehicle the more crew (seperate driver and gunnner) or support (ammo and refueling) it should need. That's the background of this thread.

FOLLOWING YOUR CAPS ITS ABOUT TANKS NEED TWO PEOPLE TO OPERATE. SINGLE PERSON VEHICLES WITH ATTACK FUNCTION SHOULD REQUIRE REFUELING, CAPS OR AMMUNITION. THIS IS THE INTENT TO SEPERATE ONE PERSON IN A DROPSUIT FROM A TEAM THAT SPORTS VEHICLES.

lol clearly never driven a tank
tanks need gunners to survive aka teamwork
turrets trackin were nerfed
a sole tank will not realise its full potential
a tank with 2 gunners however aka using teamwork uses it to full potential
but im not about to sit here and discuss how we operate tank crews

so again the intent of this thread still fails as tanks do currently take teamwork
same way MTACs and Fighters and gunships will

yall seem to be under the delusion that u must have 2 ppl to operate it that that makes it take teamwork
which again proves my point that most of the ppl posting these suggestions are a bunch of pubstars with little competitive experience. In organised corp v corp play it will teamwork , fighters will have to coordinate with ground troops, gunships as well, tanks already need gunners to effectively work

understand the concept of teamwork and stop judging teamwork based on pub games with randomly organised teams ur never gonna get teamwork on any highscale there the way yall seem to imagine it will happen.

seperating the main gun from driver makes tanking easier, 2 corp mates can now run riot as the driver can just focus on driving and now the tank is MORE mobile as it will be moving AND shooting all the time

Ya'll thinking this change is good, need to go play EVE for awhile.

1 person, in a pod, controlling an entire Battleship (or Titan) full of guns and drones, using camera drones for the external view (so the tanks have this, but limited to the turrets facing), and nobody else.

Tanks, have at least 2 turrets for co-gunners. Who's the ones most likely to die when the tank does? THEM! (Cause the driver saw the shields die and bailed and ran)

Currently, the driver is more likely to die with the tank cause he's busy fighting it.

In Dust, the driver must be the one doing the maingun shooting. Why? Cause he PAID for it. People who buy tanks, don't get kills if they can't control any guns now, can they? If you can't understand that, buy an Impact and drive it around with a guy on the turret till it blows up (and no, you can't run anybody over).

A BETTER suggestion, would be to give the LAVs and Dropships pilot controlled weapons. Machine guns on the LAVs, and the same, or even rocket launchers, for the Dropships (would take practice for doing strafing runs I think).

Impacts can still run people over. Dropships before Precursor used to, but now take too much damage (and draw Swarm Spam like you wouldn't belive). Have you ever TRIED to run someone over in a tank? Hard as HECK, unless they ain't looking your way, and standing dead still.

But tanks, need the guy driving to get kills, or else they are useless. If you pay 500k ISK or more for a tank, and can't get any kills, but die when it blows up and you didn't get out in time, it's worthless.

If you separate the driver from the turret, sure as HECK, some putz will get into the turret just to 'shoot the big gun' and never let the driver have it.

Separate it, and you better make it so the driver is the only one who can get into the turret (making the tank a fixed gun), and only the main turret user able to switch to driver. Either that, or give the tank owner the ability to 'LOCK' his tank, so nobody else can get in.

If tanks are changed like the OP wants, you'll have NERFd people who use them. They'd then stop buying them. Only squads would use them at most.

The OP should have been slapped upside his head but the one blaring contradiction his suggestion entails: The DRIVER most likely bought the tank!

Nerf them, and you'll see fewer people buying them, and more people looking to hop the 'Big Gun' on any called in.

I do not tollerate fools, gladely or otherwise. Try to think things through before posing suggestions.

The discussion keep going on and on. Both side think their idea is brilliant while the other is just plain stupid. How about you guys look at larger picture. I see merit in both suggestions.


Can anyone answer me this ? Why do we have to go one way or another ? Why can't we get it BOTH ?


Make 2 type of HAV, a fps standard one (paper thin one man operated) and an uber strong squad operated one.
Nothing can go wrong with this, can it ?

You will never sell your average gamer on the idea of spending millions of ISK and SP acquiring, fitting, and skilling into a vehicle, only to tell him that his only payoff for all that expenditure will be to move a slow, lumbering vehicle forward and backwards and turn while other people shoot guns and get kills and have a good time.

Honestly, you've all diverged into the realm of "doing it for the sake of doing it". What's the point? Is there even one anymore? Something nebulous about teamwork? All this work CCP would do, this inelegant solution that leaves nobody happy, and for essentially no reason.

That could work but they will need some hotfixes then:
Medium tank
-just 1 gunner
-faster turning speed
-24mph
-costs as much as the current hav
-about 70 % of their hp

Heavy tank
-3 gunners (1 large 2 small)
-slower turning speed
-12mph
-very expensive (1mil for a standard tank at least)
-about 160 % of current havs hp

lol clearly never driven a tank
tanks need gunners to survive aka teamwork
turrets trackin were nerfed
a sole tank will not realise its full potential
a tank with 2 gunners however aka using teamwork uses it to full potential
but im not about to sit here and discuss how we operate tank crews

so again the intent of this thread still fails as tanks do currently take teamwork
same way MTACs and Fighters and gunships will

yall seem to be under the delusion that u must have 2 ppl to operate it that that makes it take teamwork
which again proves my point that most of the ppl posting these suggestions are a bunch of pubstars with little competitive experience. In organised corp v corp play it will teamwork , fighters will have to coordinate with ground troops, gunships as well, tanks already need gunners to effectively work

understand the concept of teamwork and stop judging teamwork based on pub games with randomly organised teams ur never gonna get teamwork on any highscale there the way yall seem to imagine it will happen.

seperating the main gun from driver makes tanking easier, 2 corp mates can now run riot as the driver can just focus on driving and now the tank is MORE mobile as it will be moving AND shooting all the time

You will never sell your average gamer on the idea of spending millions of ISK and SP acquiring, fitting, and skilling into a vehicle, only to tell him that his only payoff for all that expenditure will be to move a slow, lumbering vehicle forward and backwards and turn while other people shoot guns and get kills and have a good time.

Honestly, you've all diverged into the realm of "doing it for the sake of doing it". What's the point? Is there even one anymore? Something nebulous about teamwork? All this work CCP would do, this inelegant solution that leaves nobody happy, and for essentially no reason.

The driver shouldn't have the primary turret on the tank. I think that's fairly obvious, but why should he have no turret at all? Just give him a secondary turret while the first gunner gets the primary one.

That way tank drivers need at least one other guy to be really effective (well, the driver is able to just switch seats, but then he would be stationary and random teammates can jump in and take the tank as well), but the driver will still be able to get kills and help his gunners out.

Separating the positions increases the effectiveness of the tank while removing its ability to be a one-man super-suit. If necessary, keep it a 3-man vehicle and give the driver the front small turret. You'll never see an end to the balancing argument as long as a one-man asset is capable of fighting off 4-6 other players. Give players the ability to squad-lock their vehicles, and the owner could occupy the turret and have someone else drive him. Why should an HAV be the only vehicle with driver controlled weapons?

The driver shouldn't have the primary turret on the tank. I think that's fairly obvious, but why should he have no turret at all? Just give him a secondary turret while the first gunner gets the primary one.

That way tank drivers need at least one other guy to be really effective (well, the driver is able to just switch seats, but then he would be stationary and random teammates can jump in and take the tank as well), but the driver will still be able to get kills and help his gunners out.

Many current tank abusers might be against this, but it's actually pretty reasonable suggestion that improves:
Team-work, somewhat balances vehicles and potentially offers new character builds like gunner, driver etc.

The obvious question:
why are tanks the only vehicles in the game that only need one person to both drive and operate the main turret.

- You need 2 players to get the most out from simple LAV.
- Drop-ship without gunners can only fly. Drop-ship without pilot, can't fly.

Why not just make Tanks work in similar fashion?
if you want to use the main turret you need to be the gunner, if you want to drive the tank you better be on the drivers position.
Since tanks seem to require loads of teamwork to take down, why do they require none to operate?

This would also solve few other problems as well.
- Unable to see where you are going due to slow turret / camera turning speed.
- Driver should be the only one that has the ability to see the tank from 3rd person perspective.
- Upcoming Smoke grenades and EMP grenades could severely hinder the gunners due to poor visibility / turret camera system failing.
- Boost the usefulness of many tank modules like the speed module (due to a driver and gunner being separate roles, you could drive the tank while gunners handle the shooting. )

just reread OP..it takes load of teamwork to take a tank down...yet i took out a sagaris solo..

by this logic it should take 2 ppl to operate the forge gun then, since it can solo any vehicle in the game and demolishes infantry.
also the hmg should need 2 ppl since it will tear infantry apart.

might aswell add 2 person operation to swarms since they shred dropships so easy.

back to what Mavado has asked numerous times and is constantly avoided...fighters and mtacs....how long after they come out till everyone starts saying they need to have 2 ppl to operate?