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Dane Stark
Golgotha Group
178
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Posted - 2012.09.14 13:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
Necro-thread Here is another thread with some good support for this idea. I, for one, love the idea of having to field a tank with a crew (at least 2 members). With separate skills and bonuses to the team for having a Tank Commander that can call the action. Drivers should be drivers; gunners should be gunners (both large turrets and small).
Some fun facts from my brother who was a tank driver in the US Army:
- Battlefield life expectancy for tank crew member: 20 seconds - You can jump a real tank off dirt piles if you're good (pulling the governor of the engine helps a tad ;) |
Dane Stark
Golgotha Group
178
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 03:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
immortal ironhide wrote:Kyy Seiska wrote:Many current tank abusers might be against this, but it's actually pretty reasonable suggestion that improves: Team-work, somewhat balances vehicles and potentially offers new character builds like gunner, driver etc.
The obvious question: why are tanks the only vehicles in the game that only need one person to both drive and operate the main turret.
- You need 2 players to get the most out from simple LAV. - Drop-ship without gunners can only fly. Drop-ship without pilot, can't fly.
Why not just make Tanks work in similar fashion? if you want to use the main turret you need to be the gunner, if you want to drive the tank you better be on the drivers position. Since tanks seem to require loads of teamwork to take down, why do they require none to operate?
This would also solve few other problems as well. - Unable to see where you are going due to slow turret / camera turning speed. - Driver should be the only one that has the ability to see the tank from 3rd person perspective. - Upcoming Smoke grenades and EMP grenades could severely hinder the gunners due to poor visibility / turret camera system failing. - Boost the usefulness of many tank modules like the speed module (due to a driver and gunner being separate roles, you could drive the tank while gunners handle the shooting. ) stupidest idea i have ever heard tbqh..... you even posted why it is a TERRIBLE idea..."Unable to see where you are going due to slow turret / camera turning speed." so by seperating the driver from the main gun you expect to make the tank weaker...yea not gunna work that way. 1) will make shooting infantry much easier, since gunner can just spam the cannon instead of you know having to worry about watching where he is driving and avoiding obstacles. can focus on av infantry while not having to worry about backing into a hill and getting stuck. 2) yes let me train a ton of SP then spend 1.5mil to fit this tank that im not gunna get a kill with....geniussssss. seriously ppl train for a tank for a reason..to be able to fire the main gun and farm infantry...you dont like it train some AV and make the tank pop rather easy if you spend the points on swarms or forge instead of lolprotoweapons or iwinnades. 3) comparing it to TRANSPORT vehicles...tank is a COMBAT vehicle, meaning it is designed to have the driver SHOOTING the main gun. 4) boost speed modules..what?? so the tank will be faster, driver can just drive, gunner can just shoot, and the tank is more balanced this way tanks are balanced more due to the driver having to go stationary to make accurate shots. take away the turret and a tank is never gunna stop driving. forge guns destroy tanks so easily because the tanks have to stop to turn since they are trying to shoot infantry AND drive. dont know how many i have made drive into a building or hill and get stuck so i can easily blow them up
Neat and all, but you miss the point completely. It is not a terrible idea - I would love to know the basis for such a statement. Certainly, the gunner position would/should not be able to 'spam' anything. It actually takes a bit of time to load a real tank turret. If it is electric/rail, then there may be a speed increase, but at the ranges discussed, close-contact infantry would not be at risk. The gun should not have that range of motion AND it should be slow to move. Tanks are not just super-easy do-it-all-yourself pieces of equipment. It takes a HIGHLY trained TEAM of SPECIALISTS to run one on the real battlefield. So I would ask that you not suggest that these comments are ridiculous. The way tanks have been implemented in EVERY FPS to date is what is actually ridiculous! |
Dane Stark
Golgotha Group
178
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 04:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
immortal ironhide wrote:the way tanks are implemented in FPS works. the reason so many ppl have been complainin is imho that they spec into nothing but assault and have no AV weaponry and they get mad that their prototype ar cant take out a tank. and yes it takes a team in real life to operate a tank i know how that works. but this is a video game, and a futuristic one at that. no need to seperate the gunner from the driver, when it is working.
also seems to be getting lost that the tank is not designed to be infantry transport like the dropship and lav. thats why those 2 have no guns for driver.
Respectfully disagree (with no hard feelings I hope). But, I would suggest that it takes more skill to drive a tank than a jeep. And a jeep cannot fire by driver. I understand that folks feel it's 'just a video game' but my point is this. I am fine with tanks being buffed and hard as hell to kill (as they should be)! I think that Dust is trying for a more 'real' feel and that would be so cool if you had to actually skill up and get a squad together to field one. Just my humble 0.02ISK. |
Dane Stark
Golgotha Group
178
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 04:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
immortal ironhide wrote:while that works the major problem i see is ppl wont call in a tank becuae they cost 1+ mil for a good fit plus they arent guarenteed to have good gunners so it will be a rolling death trap
Yeah - I would love to see this spawn more teamwork and I would love to see some angle with training facilities etc. to get squads together (corp driven) to train and get bonus for having tank commanders etc. (similar to wing commanders in EvE). It would be very easy to implement training grounds for corps. and I will say. I want tanks to be foreboding, and not fielded at a whim. They should rock the battlefield, but it should not be without cost and time to train up. Eh. Good convo and thanks for not going all ballistic on opposing POV (it happens way too much these days around here). |
Dane Stark
Golgotha Group
178
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 22:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:Seran Jinkar wrote:Yep .. he didn't read it ... effective vehicles should be a team effort. They should reward team play and coordination. the stronger the vehicle the more crew (seperate driver and gunnner) or support (ammo and refueling) it should need. That's the background of this thread.
FOLLOWING YOUR CAPS ITS ABOUT TANKS NEED TWO PEOPLE TO OPERATE. SINGLE PERSON VEHICLES WITH ATTACK FUNCTION SHOULD REQUIRE REFUELING, CAPS OR AMMUNITION. THIS IS THE INTENT TO SEPERATE ONE PERSON IN A DROPSUIT FROM A TEAM THAT SPORTS VEHICLES. lol clearly never driven a tank tanks need gunners to survive aka teamwork turrets trackin were nerfed a sole tank will not realise its full potential a tank with 2 gunners however aka using teamwork uses it to full potential but im not about to sit here and discuss how we operate tank crews so again the intent of this thread still fails as tanks do currently take teamwork same way MTACs and Fighters and gunships will yall seem to be under the delusion that u must have 2 ppl to operate it that that makes it take teamwork which again proves my point that most of the ppl posting these suggestions are a bunch of pubstars with little competitive experience. In organised corp v corp play it will teamwork , fighters will have to coordinate with ground troops, gunships as well, tanks already need gunners to effectively work understand the concept of teamwork and stop judging teamwork based on pub games with randomly organised teams ur never gonna get teamwork on any highscale there the way yall seem to imagine it will happen. seperating the main gun from driver makes tanking easier, 2 corp mates can now run riot as the driver can just focus on driving and now the tank is MORE mobile as it will be moving AND shooting all the time
Clearly never driven a REAL tank...boo to you sir
EDIT: [hah - never driven a tank - make me laugh some more SON - this is good stuff] <==purposeful goading |
Dane Stark
Golgotha Group
178
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 22:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Johnson McCrea wrote:Ya'll thinking this change is good, need to go play EVE for awhile.
1 person, in a pod, controlling an entire Battleship (or Titan) full of guns and drones, using camera drones for the external view (so the tanks have this, but limited to the turrets facing), and nobody else.
Tanks, have at least 2 turrets for co-gunners. Who's the ones most likely to die when the tank does? THEM! (Cause the driver saw the shields die and bailed and ran)
Currently, the driver is more likely to die with the tank cause he's busy fighting it.
In Dust, the driver must be the one doing the maingun shooting. Why? Cause he PAID for it. People who buy tanks, don't get kills if they can't control any guns now, can they? If you can't understand that, buy an Impact and drive it around with a guy on the turret till it blows up (and no, you can't run anybody over).
A BETTER suggestion, would be to give the LAVs and Dropships pilot controlled weapons. Machine guns on the LAVs, and the same, or even rocket launchers, for the Dropships (would take practice for doing strafing runs I think).
Impacts can still run people over. Dropships before Precursor used to, but now take too much damage (and draw Swarm Spam like you wouldn't belive). Have you ever TRIED to run someone over in a tank? Hard as HECK, unless they ain't looking your way, and standing dead still.
But tanks, need the guy driving to get kills, or else they are useless. If you pay 500k ISK or more for a tank, and can't get any kills, but die when it blows up and you didn't get out in time, it's worthless.
If you separate the driver from the turret, sure as HECK, some putz will get into the turret just to 'shoot the big gun' and never let the driver have it.
Separate it, and you better make it so the driver is the only one who can get into the turret (making the tank a fixed gun), and only the main turret user able to switch to driver. Either that, or give the tank owner the ability to 'LOCK' his tank, so nobody else can get in.
If tanks are changed like the OP wants, you'll have NERFd people who use them. They'd then stop buying them. Only squads would use them at most.
The OP should have been slapped upside his head but the one blaring contradiction his suggestion entails: The DRIVER most likely bought the tank!
Nerf them, and you'll see fewer people buying them, and more people looking to hop the 'Big Gun' on any called in.
I do not tollerate fools, gladely or otherwise. Try to think things through before posing suggestions.
Plus, the point is that tanks should probably be shared cost - or corp bought. You should be issued heavy equipment from a corp. or the crew should split the cost or the tank owner (who is not necessarily the driver should hire folks for his crew). I thought we were mercs? Who said that mercs dont hire other mercs, especially when they have the skills to do something the owner doesn't. Not that it matters, cause its all unreal sci-fi right? But have you ever seen any popular sci-fi shows where the owner of a ship or vehicle happened to hire other people to pilot their baby? (Hi my name is Malcom Reynolds) - sheesh. |
Dane Stark
Golgotha Group
178
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 06:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
immortal ironhide wrote:just reread OP..it takes load of teamwork to take a tank down...yet i took out a sagaris solo..
by this logic it should take 2 ppl to operate the forge gun then, since it can solo any vehicle in the game and demolishes infantry. also the hmg should need 2 ppl since it will tear infantry apart.
might aswell add 2 person operation to swarms since they shred dropships so easy.
back to what Mavado has asked numerous times and is constantly avoided...fighters and mtacs....how long after they come out till everyone starts saying they need to have 2 ppl to operate?
If you want to get semi-techinal, it does actually take 2 ppl to shoot the modern day equivalent of a swarm launcher. You have the gunner and the loader, but who's counting? Anyway...the point is not that you need all these people for various weapons. The point is that the swarm launcher shouldn't do so much damage and the tanks should need crews and they should be expensive on purpose and all the other countless ideas people have had. Bottom line is, keep the ideas flowing and CCP will pick out the ones they like. I guess that's it. |
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