Im sorry you are right. Tanks are underpowered. It's so hard to get kills with them. They don't have enough armor at all! Just because you have a setup doesn't mean you are good with it.

I never said they were underpowered. Assuming again.

Technically, I agreed with you at first. My next statement was a new, sarcastic idea. One of my own. You assumed that I assumed that you think tanks are underpowered. We could teach each other grammar and other technical aspects of English, or we can provide knowledgable and usable feedback for this beta.

Feedback=tanks are OP
support= it takes three to four infantry men to take down a heavily armored tank, while the tank can roam around the field taking out helpless infantrymen

If you think everything I wrote in here was useless than I am quite sorry for wasting your time. I observed something in game, and I wrote it on the game's forums. I did this so the developers could look in further to the point that I'm trying to get across. If you can't respect the fact that I want the best for the game, then I again apologize for wasting your time.

Even your EvE associates recognize and acknowledge the fact that this game isn't balanced. They say this will make for a boring game. I however, have a different point of view. If the game isn't balanced, it doesn't takes skill. This is true with all first person shooters. Remember this isn't EvE. No first person shooter wants a grind to win game.

Feedback=tanks are OP
support= it takes three to four infantry men to take down a heavily armored tank, while the tank can roam around the field taking out helpless infantrymen

If you think everything I wrote in here was useless than I am quite sorry for wasting your time. I observed something in game, and I wrote it on the game's forums. I did this so the developers could look in further to the point that I'm trying to get across. If you can't respect the fact that I want the best for the game, then I again apologize for wasting your time.

Even your EvE associates recognize and acknowledge the fact that this game isn't balanced. They say this will make for a boring game. I however, have a different point of view. If the game isn't balanced, it doesn't takes skill. This is true with all first person shooters. Remember this isn't EvE. No first person shooter wants a grind to win game.

The tank can roam around for most of the game and destroy hopeless infantrymen actually doing something for the team. They aren't making as much isk as you because they die more. Remember that.

I understand the concept will be similar, but lets be clear, no first person shooter wants a grind to win game.

Why must you have three people specialize in something that takes no skill and is boring? Instead of helping on the battlefield by defending and attacking our objectives, people have to go around waisting there time destroying tanks. This is how most team goes because of tank abuse.

Player 1. Assault
Player 2. Assault
Player 3. Assault
Player 4-6: Useless sniper
Player 7-8: AV person because they can't afford to lose any more money to tanks(These people could be useful as Assault players who take objectives).
Player 9: Someone who enjoys and takes pride in AV.
Player 10-12: Gunners or drivers of dropships/tanks

Tell me Omnipotent, how much does a Prototype Infantry Weapon cost? Maximum 15 000 ISK? And how many SP is it to get to Prototype Swarms/ Forge Gun? Max 1 000 000?

You expect your tiny weapons to take out our 200 000 ISK vehicles. That isn't balanced, now is it? Now. 3-4 Infantry guys I understand. But come on. You're just embarrasing yourself now.


Protoman likes tanks.

@nano
Other fps aren't really grind to win. They have enough to get by well if they have enough skill over the other players. Old player should never destroy new players based on the sole fact that they are new.

its way easier to use cover as an AV guy than it is for tanks. i know its hard to believe, but a tanks weakness is it's maneuverability, so saying they are way too fast is silly.

in my tank, id say i easily have 15 mil sp in it, probs more.

wasnt completely directed at you.

so tanks using cover is unfair but infantry using it isnt? SL are definately a anti-vehicle wep, but the forge guns are the tank busters, so obviously they are preferred. Ask any tank driver and he will say how SL are way more annoying because they do 90 degree turns around buildings and such and are very difficult to dodge once fired.

as far as the amount of sp required for a fitting to effectively work in either situation, tanks will always cost more sp and isk investment to be effective. They are tanks.

Remember this isn't EvE. No first person shooter wants a grind to win game.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=30261&find=unread

Gentlemen,

It is clear that you have passion and commitment to seeing that dust reaches its full potential

I, like many here, have fallen into the short sighted perspective that what we see and have been playing has anything to do with what we will see and be playing next week.

Whatch that video, every minute of it. Listen to how they talk and visualize what they're referring to in game. Then realize that this was march.

The kind of systems we have been playing with and the kind of systems CCP plays with on "Mainside" (name of the internal test server?) are very different. Imagine tanks dependent on capacitors for power to fie, repair or accelerate.

Please, keep posting you thoughts and ideas but realize that the WHOLE time we have been playing the game we haven't even been playing the real game. Not even the real test build.

Peace be with you

To all the people who believe tanks aren't OP, please answer this one question...
Would you be getting the same amount of kills while being infantry? Answer truthfully.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=30261&find=unread

Gentlemen,

It is clear that you have passion and commitment to seeing that dust reaches its full potential

I, like many here, have fallen into the short sighted perspective that what we see and have been playing has anything to do with what we will see and be playing next week.

Whatch that video, every minute of it. Listen to how they talk and visualize what they're referring to in game. Then realize that this was march.

The kind of systems we have been playing with and the kind of systems CCP plays with on "Mainside" (name of the internal test server?) are very different. Imagine tanks dependent on capacitors for power to fie, repair or accelerate.

Please, keep posting you thoughts and ideas but realize that the WHOLE time we have been playing the game we haven't even been playing the real game. Not even the real test build.

Peace be with you

there's 2 different kinds of balance in this thread. let me put it this way...

wanting to balance a prototype forge gun to make it useful against high end tanks, is perfectly valid. it's another piece of high end equipment. that is the sort of feedback we should be giving ccp.

wanting to balance a militia fit against a full prototype fit is not. otherwise why have varying "tiers" of equipment? if you're against grinding then fine, you are entitled to your opinion and to play at your own pace, but ccp can't just cut the progression system out of the game for you.


so when we debate balance, we need to consider the tech level of the equipment. of COURSE a creodron is better than a militia AR. and it should stay that way. if you can't accept that then why are you here? it's not like it was a big secret ccp sprung on you? progression was a SELLING POINT?!

but how about when compared to a duvolle?

or how about a properly fitted marauder being able to take so much damage, that a prototype swarm can literally never kill it? (as in it has more health than they can carry in ammo) THAT'S a balance issue.

or how about when a scout suit can dance around an equal tier heavy suit and never take damage? people have tried to compare this to eve: a battleship being unable to hit a speedy frigate, but what frigate can put out enough dps to solo a battleship?

or why can a 0 investment militia vehicle kill ANY dropsuit, by brushing lightly up against them? that's **** tier beating top end, THAT'S a balance issue.

or a piece of 10k SP and 2k ISK equipment being a guaranteed one shot kill to any infantry it touches? RE? working as intended?


there are plenty of legitimate balance issues in dust, but "more SP = better" isn't really one of them. you don't have to LIKE it, but you also don't have to play. there is literally every other shooter in the world for you where there is either 0 progression, or only token progression.

I say make the turn speed for the main gun 75% of the speed of what it is now, and make the top speed of the HAV 8.0m/s instead of the current 10m/s. This effectively nerfs tanks without people being able to complain their tank isn't a tank anymore.

ladies and gentlemen, he has a point. We are not playing with half the stuff that supposed to be in game. I understand there are players coming from other games where they are not used to having vehicles in game. I know there are passionate gamers with strong opinions on both sides on how they feel things should be. I know everyone wants a balance. But the fact remains, EVE isn't even balanced. CCP has even stated this. They want players to think outside the box, while playing in CCP's sandbox. But there are counters to everything in EVE. I know, this is not EVE. But it is CCP's idea, who created EVE. This game is part of the same universe, therefore, the same imbalance will still exist. There was a link in another thread to a presentation that CCP was giving on DUST. Not sure who it was that posted it, but it gave some good insight on how CCP wants this game. They were even discussing that the tanks were OP. But they continued talking about the counters that exist to battle them. Then continued on about how teamwork plays. Thats what they want to happen in game. TEAMWORK. They want corp members to work together. If you don't have that, you're going to pretty much screwed. As for tanks being OP, there will be counters for them, even if you don't have a cohesive team. Tanks will be a part of the game. They are going to OHK any infantry they see. I don't drive tanks. Don't intend to. But I do have an AV fit, and plan to continue having one. I currently have a proto SL. I can do hefty damage to most tanks. Sagaris tanks on the other hand, I hate those things. I have died to them numerous times. But I have learned how to come at them. Even if I'm the only one that has an AV fit, I can at least make them hide under the buildings, preventing them from slaughtering more teammates, while they continue capturing points.

As it stands now, sagaris tanks do seem OP. They are some extremely difficult to tank down, especially when under the control of someone who knows how to drive and fit them properly. But lets see what kind of new toys await us in the next build. If this was a release builid, yeah, I might say some adjustments need to be made. But we have lots of things ahead of us. Once the next build is released, we will probably forget all about tanks and cry about something else being OP. Especially OB. I can see when one of those wipes an entire squad, if in the wrong place at the wrong time, there will be lots of posts about it being OP.

I'm not suggesting nerf or don't nerf. I am saying, "patience young padawans". Much more awaits us. Be watchful of your surroundings. keep your eye out for nooks to hide in to ambush tanks. Watch your back at all times. Listen to comms. Watch radar. Always be prepared for anything on the battlefield.

On that note, let's put tank topics away for now. CCP is hearing you. That is aware by whats in the patch notes. They see the talk on tanks. If they feel adjustments need to be made, they will. They are always making adjustments to ships in EVE. They will continue to make adjustments here if needed after release. Let's continue forward!