Protoman fails at math. The numbers have been thoroughly crunched already. Here is SoCal's AR and SMG table.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8yOSDZD3MfKNXlSX0dxVHJ1TE0/edit
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8yOSDZD3MfKWm8tejRvVVhmMmM/edit

Note that his minimum DPS may not account for the minimum skills required to wield the weapon, which would skew comparisons of the prototype weapons.

I must not be good with a gun to consistently drop 40+ kills per game regardless of attack/defense

The scout suit has been broken since december the hit box needs to be larger damage doesn't always consistently register against the scout suit like it does against any other suit.

Here is SoCal's AR and SMG table.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8yOSDZD3MfKNXlSX0dxVHJ1TE0/edit
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8yOSDZD3MfKWm8tejRvVVhmMmM/edit

Note that his minimum DPS may not account for the minimum skills required to wield the weapon, which would skew comparisons of the prototype weapons.

With Weaponry 5 (15% boost) and SMG Operation 5 (25% SMG boost) and AR Proficiency 5 (15% AR Boost)

DPS: Duvolle AR > Ishukone Assault SMG > Boundless Breach SMG > Creodron Breach AR

Duvolle AR: 36 damage, 750 RPM, 30% damage increase, DPS = 585
Ishukone Assault SMG: 24 damage, 1000 RPM, 40% damage increase, DPS = 560
Boundless Breach SMG: 40.8, 534.8 RPM, 40% damage increase, DPS = 509
Creodron Breach AR: 57.6 damage, 401.1 RPM, 30% damage increase, DPS = 501

Those are the actual DPS with max damage increasing skills and NO damage mods.

Effective range goes as follows
Creodron Breach AR > Duvolle AR > Boundless Breach SMG > Ishukone Assault SMG

Umm well, I hate to say it, but his table is wrong.

I don't know what formula he used for DPS, but you really need to check the math on your source...I could say a lot of things to compliment your blind faith here, but I will try and stay civil Just because someone makes up a table doesn't make it right.

INFO FROM HIS TABLE!
Duvolle AR ROF 750 RPM (that means rounds per minute...to make it rounds per second you must divide by 60.) which equals 12.5...then we multiply that by the damage....we multiply because we want to consider each bullet hitting the target in that second.
12.5*46.8(the listed dmg/bullet) =585 DPS!! wait....that doesn't match the bible....err table he has it as 398.3

I would love to go through and mock all errors but I will quickly do the data for SMG the Ish assault

1052.6/60=17.54*33.6=589 DPS ......It is only a difference of 4 dmg per second, and the breach SMG and CREON are just as close with the breach SMG barely ahead...it is a good chart for the raw data, but sadly he is not, was not, good at math.

But there is your proof that on paper the SMG is "better" at CQC

I have an easy fix that I use:
Use a Mass Driver. No matter how fast you zig-zag, you will not escape the splash damage.
I seriously do not know why I do not see the Mass Driver more.

Umm well, I hate to say it, but his table is wrong.

I don't know what formula he used for DPS, but you really need to check the math on your source...I could say a lot of things to compliment your blind faith here, but I will try and stay civil Just because someone makes up a table doesn't make it right.

INFO FROM HIS TABLE!
Duvolle AR ROF 750 RPM (that means rounds per minute...to make it rounds per second you must divide by 60.) which equals 12.5...then we multiply that by the damage....we multiply because we want to consider each bullet hitting the target in that second.
12.5*46.8(the listed dmg/bullet) =585 DPS!! wait....that doesn't match the bible....err table he has it as 398.3

I would love to go through and mock all errors but I will quickly do the data for SMG the Ish assault

1052.6/60=17.54*33.6=589 DPS ......It is only a difference of 4 dmg per second, and the breach SMG and CREON are just as close with the breach SMG barely ahead...it is a good chart for the raw data, but sadly he is not, was not, good at math.

But there is your proof that on paper the SMG is "better" at CQC

Just so we are clear, am I correct in my assumption that the issue we are discussing is that it appears when a scout suit moves in a specific way ("zig zag" "twitch straffe" ect.) that somehow the game is not registering damage on the scout suit...? We believe this is the case because we can see that our reticle/cross hair is on the player an as we are firing but we can also see the damage displayed not lowering (the bars over the player that display their armor and shield).

Can I further assume that most of us are not complaining that the scout is "too small" or "too fast" ...rather as previously stated, that the game appears to not be registering hits accurately.


Furthermore, a separate concern is, is CCP knowingly and intentionally creating the game with the scout not registering damage in the above mentioned ways because that is their vision for the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2004nrHxa0&feature=related

Proto scouts currently can dodge this and I am hoping it is not game design. Strafe all you want but you will be hit.

Sorry fellow Dusters this has gotten a little winded. Stryker sums it up correctly.

Players using scout suits: I am not calling for a nerf. Put your bat away. Most of us agree. There is lag. There are hit detection issues. There is something funky with aim assist pulling our crosshairs (?something amiss) My experience with scout suits is the same as most of yours. I have drilled one as it ran from me and 60 bullets all missed. Fine. I have bad aim or they have a small hit box and I was off.

****This thread was meant to ask DEV's if the CQ "twitch strafe" is intentional. It also was to see how rampant this practice is. Just because you killed a scout does not mean he was "twitch strafing". Just because you died when you were a scout does not mean you were twitch strafing. Just because you died while a scout while twitch strafing does not negate the experiences many of us are having. Maybe you got hit from the side and one bullet from your "dance" partner finished you off. Maybe the game actually worked as it appeared and you did take damage. Please humbly...many of these players speaking about this "scout glitch" have over 30 million SP. We have been around the block. I had 32 million. Some of us had proto scouts and experienced this from both sides of the coin. We are speaking from a lot of gaming hours. Remember I had a mountain climbing accident and can not walk still. I am laid up on a couch 23 hours of the day. Dust takes many of those hours. I am just reporting what appears to be a broken mechanic. If I led you to believe anything else I am sorry. Play a match with me and I believe you will see I am pretty level headed and excited to see Dust 514 succeed.

With Weaponry 5 (15% boost) and SMG Operation 5 (25% SMG boost) and AR Proficiency 5 (15% AR Boost)

DPS: Duvolle AR > Ishukone Assault SMG > Boundless Breach SMG > Creodron Breach AR

Duvolle AR: 36 damage, 750 RPM, 30% damage increase, DPS = 585
Ishukone Assault SMG: 24 damage, 1000 RPM, 40% damage increase, DPS = 560
Boundless Breach SMG: 40.8, 534.8 RPM, 40% damage increase, DPS = 509
Creodron Breach AR: 57.6 damage, 401.1 RPM, 30% damage increase, DPS = 501

Those are the actual DPS with max damage increasing skills and NO damage mods.

Effective range goes as follows
Creodron Breach AR > Duvolle AR > Boundless Breach SMG > Ishukone Assault SMG

Carlos I like you, but you are incorrect, Stryker already corrected you, but was unsure, so here goes. The ROF for the assault SMG is 1052.6, that is why it is the assault varient, higher ROF and increased range. It also has more effective range then the Boundless SMG, how do I know that? Because that is what the description says. It costs more CPU and PG then the other SMGs. I just want to get the facts out there and not opinions or speculation.

Three weeks ago it was tanks.
Then it was swarms and forges.
Then it was the proto ARs.
Now it's scouts.

Every week there will be something that seems imbalanced to people. That's ok. That's how the game works.
Something is only overpowered until others find a way to counter it. Then the countering agent is considered overpowered until overthrown.

It's the circle of Perfect Imbalance.

Edit: I'm not saying it's perfect NOW. I just think fixing hit detection will fix this entirely.

Well said. :)

Well said. :)

except that he only proves our point.....swarms and forges were nerfed because they were not balanced, tanks are going to cost more for balance purposes, ARs....never heard anything about that because they are suppose to be the generic man killer, and I am not sure who, if anyone was saying they were not balanced....so all the issues with the exception of ARs because there was no issue have been fixed or tweeked
And not saying nerf the scout, saying look into the twitch strafe and see why scouts appear unhittable while engaged in this action.

I think ARs are broken, but hey, I don't climb to the hills a scream out NERFGäó. I adapt. There is no need to NERFGäó when you can adapt.
It's the best part of playing a game that offers no set class. You gain the ability to experiment. Hell, I do it in MTG. I'm not the BEST player, but I'm getting a fair share of points for it.
Besides, if your not experimenting, how are you going to get better? Even if your main build is ARtard, you can learn how people move and adjust by honestly stepping in their shoes. I do it. Though I hate the heavy suit, it pays off to know just how long I can last in one, so I can counter it later.


Chameleonic adaption: changing to your environment to blend, which does not change what you are to begin with, but allows you to better adapt to your environment.

ARs should be the best overall (infantry) weapon because of their versatility.

Creo will do roughly 80.64 per bullet....a proto sniper is more than 200....most sniper are actually doing about 300....my proto assault carries about 600 total HP...that is two shots, once I am hit I normally have to sit in cover for 10 seconds while I heal...more likely then not the sniper has called me out and I have a dance before I heal, just because people are good at aiming doesn't make something not balanced, there is a difference between QQ and looking at the facts, the OP of this thread was actually asking the DEVs if the scouts ability to seemigly not take dmg while performing a twitch strafe was intentional or if it is an issue that will be fixed with better hit detection, lag etc.