Cuz if it is... then alot of DS3 ONLY players are going to be turned off by the game. M&KB v DS3= Bringing a knife (ds3) to a gunfight (m&kb) ending in rage quitting for ds3 players ALL DAY! Ultimately resulting in the demise of DUST 514 on the ps3! Hopefully that doesn't happen. What do you guys think about it?

I actually think Dust will fully support KB/M. But "fully support" it only where it fits into the game properly and that's where the DS3 or Move controllers aren't really good.
Dust is going to have a lot of Neocom work, planet design, structure planning, large battle movements etc'. Those are classic uses for KB/M. I think the battles themselves will remain DS3/Move pure.

Eve players always say "adapt or die" or something lyk that, but its funny when they start bitchn about keyboard and mouse support... Adapt or die

Hell, they said that support was going to be in from the very beginning. This isn't anything new.

Lovely, now the game will be broken. The whole point they made DUST PS3 only was to not split the fanbase, if they are going to give the minority of the fanbase a superior advantage then I don't see myself playing this game anymore.

Think of it as a niche community. EVE isn't for everyone. DUST wont be for everyone. The people that actually ride it out, figure out the game, and excel at it are going to be hooked.

No, there is a difference in 'Not for everyone' and 'You must buy and learn to use this piece of hardware to be any good at this game even though the console you use doesn't ever use this piece of hardware and the majority of the playerbase will not use the hardware'.

...You don't know how to work a mouse and keyboard?

I think that as an Eve Online player - you're coming into my world at the expense of most of my companions not being able to partake in their fate. As such, being as I'm not as skilled with a DS3, while a mouse and keyboard may be more advantageous it's something that I'm used to. When this game was announced to be console only a lot of Eve players were discouraged - I went out and bought a PS3 specifically for this opportunity. Having a keyboard and mouse as my combat format just seems to lighten the blow a little bit.

You can always try KB/M and see if it's better than the standard controller. Nothing is broken, it's a matter of choice.

I don't have KB/M yet so i'm not playing anymore

Adapt or die

There's no problem with debate on the KBM issue, but as an EVE player I have to object to statements like "you're coming into my world." CCP are making a PS3 exclusive FPS specifically to tap a new market. EVE player opinions should not have any more weight than console player opinions -- and if anything, really, they should have a little less weight.

I think that as an Eve Online player - you're coming into my world at the expense of most of my companions not being able to partake in their fate. As such, being as I'm not as skilled with a DS3, while a mouse and keyboard may be more advantageous it's something that I'm used to. When this game was announced to be console only a lot of Eve players were discouraged - I went out and bought a PS3 specifically for this opportunity. Having a keyboard and mouse as my combat format just seems to lighten the blow a little bit.

With or without the inclusion of KB&M (Keyboard & Mouse), certain segments of the available market will face barriers to entry.

PC KB&M-diehard barrier to entry: Buying a PS3 console. ($300)
PS3 player barrier to entry: Buying a KB&M. ($20)

It's not the players who need to adapt or die... it's Dust.

I really don't care what some horse & buggy anti-car luddites think because they don't want to shell out to adapt to the way FPS gaming evolved.

Learn how to use KB&M NOW, while you're in on the ground-floor. Because PC port WILL happen - maybe not in a year, maybe not in two, but it's inevitable. And when it does, you will rage so much harder that newbie scrubs are melting your faces.

Adapt to the playstyle of the future.

Why does nobody want Kinect support?

Seriously.

So people talk about how harsh of a game eve is and everyone should just HTFU yet they can't adapt to DS3 so they don't play. No wonder the numbers have been so low.

Its the eve players that need to HTFU

EvE players talk all big while not understanding CCP has held their hand from the day they joined new Eden.

Tbh Dust is a joke. In poor taste.

Because after 30 mins of nonstop playing you will start to feel a condition we human interface designers call "Gorilla Arm"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchscreen#.22Gorilla_arm.22

Haven't bought a kinect, not i want to, KB/mice should be enough.

You can always try KB/M and see if it's better than the standard controller. Nothing is broken, it's a matter of choice.

Because after 30 mins of nonstop playing you will start to feel a condition we human interface designers call "Gorilla Arm"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchscreen#.22Gorilla_arm.22

Haven't bought a kinect, not i want to, KB/mice should be enough.

You guys do know kinect is for xbox right?

Again, a very small minority of people don't have a mouse and keyboard available to them.

This isn't ever going to end, is it?

+1 for this.

Theres no reason why KBM support shouldn't be on these types of games already.

Why would developers worry about Keyboard & Mouse support on the console? Their games aren't like DUST, meaning full of PC gamers who can't handle something a little harder than a mouse.


I thought EVE players were hardcore.

Why would developers worry about Keyboard & Mouse support on the console? Their games aren't like DUST, meaning full of PC gamers who can't handle something a little harder than a mouse.


I thought EVE players were hardcore.

I think that as an Eve Online player - you're coming into my world at the expense of most of my companions not being able to partake in their fate. As such, being as I'm not as skilled with a DS3, while a mouse and keyboard may be more advantageous it's something that I'm used to. When this game was announced to be console only a lot of Eve players were discouraged - I went out and bought a PS3 specifically for this opportunity. Having a keyboard and mouse as my combat format just seems to lighten the blow a little bit.

I have both, will try kbm on implementation. this is gonna be a car crash.

Almost certainly not!

The QQing from kb/m users will be sweet. Remember folks the greatest advantage kb/m has over ds3 is turn speed and dust limits this already. So lets get ready folks the next build will most likely be one hell of a ride.

Wait until they fully open the game to ps3 community, ccp will have a nightmare on there hands with angry players demanding removal of kb/m.... They really should wait for an expansion to add kb/m and ask the ps3 community if they want it when they are all here. I have 5 friends in beta, all console players, all 5 don't want it on our console.

Cross-posting my response from another thread:

As someone who has extensive FPS experience with both KBM and controller, I can confidently say that any decent KBM player will wtfpwn any controller player. If KBM is allowed in DUST, it will become an even bigger balancing challenge than balancing n00bs and those with millions of SP. In fact, I don't see how KBM and controller could be balanced, unless turn speed is locked for KBM - and that might not be workable at all.

As much as I hate to say this, KBM is a really really bad idea for DUST. If every PS3 player had a bluetooth KB+M (I do), it would be a whole different story - but they don't.

From what I've read, it is coming. And I think this isn't a good thing due to the fact that people using KB&M will have a distinct advantage over people, like myself, using the DS3. I think they should leave it out, for the sake of balance and playability, in my opinion.

Not going to matter what CCP does.


Keyboard and Mouse are already being used in Dust, BF3, Killzone, and every other FPS on the PS3.

Not going to matter what CCP does.


Keyboard and Mouse are already being used in Dust, BF3, Killzone, and every other FPS on the PS3.

Whut. Unreal is the only console FPS I know that has KBM support. If you're referring to the different KBM contraptions for consoles, it's a negligent part of the playerbase. I haven't tried them myself, but they reportedly have spotty performance and can be a PITA.

Cross-posting my response from another thread:

As someone who has extensive FPS experience with both KBM and controller, I can confidently say that any decent KBM player will wtfpwn any controller player. If KBM is allowed in DUST, it will become an even bigger balancing challenge than balancing n00bs and those with millions of SP. In fact, I don't see how KBM and controller could be balanced, unless turn speed is locked for KBM - and that might not be workable at all.

As much as I hate to say this, KBM is a really really bad idea for DUST. If every PS3 player had a bluetooth KB+M (I do), it would be a whole different story - but they don't.

I haven't tried them myself, but they reportedly have spotty performance and can be a PITA.

Wait, people are still talking about this? Why is everyone so divided over this issue? Why can't PC gamers and console gamers EVER get along? Christ - pick whichever tool you prefer and use it. I've seen people with a controller obliterate KBM players, and I've seen the opposite. It's all in the SKILL OF THE PERSON USING THE TOOL. This argument is entirely void of merit.

I know some dedicated PS3 players who use both, naturally not in their living room.

I am an EVE player who never played a console FPS and I do find it hard to rack up K/D, however I suspect that the KBM will be sufficiently nerfed that I will probably prefer using a DS3 controller in the long run.


Actually, the discussion about using KBM isn't really new to the console community. I suspect that in this instance it isn't really about KBM vs DS3.

It's the EVE/PC players, (Masters of the Universe) vs Console/FPS players, (Deadliest Gunfighters Forever) again...

What seems to drive these arguments is a simple fear of change, a reluctance to fully accept a simple fact: DUST is a brand new concept and both sides will probably have to adapt . Naturally "the Devil is in the details" but instead of focusing on those many discussions only spiral into the inevitable finger pointing.

Of course all gaming forums are full of such bickering, however here, it is compounded by the very daredevil vision CCP is trying to manifest: Combining two very different platforms and two very different play styles into one universe.
Rather then trying to be part of the birthing process, it's much easier and very tempting for both communities to simply point their fingers at the other bozos.
We even have some over qualified midwifes who instead of helping the doctor to deliver this baby have already decided that the baby will die, and are scaring all the other children with fiendish tales about doomed Frankenstein.

I know for a fact that the GIMX setup using a bluetooth dongle works perfectly. It only takes a bit of technical skill + a PC to make it work.

There's no problem with debate on the KBM issue, but as an EVE player I have to object to statements like "you're coming into my world." CCP are making a PS3 exclusive FPS specifically to tap a new market. EVE player opinions should not have any more weight than console player opinions -- and if anything, really, they should have a little less weight.

It has nothing todo with console players being afraid of change, it is simply the fact that CCP desided to make a PC game for the PS3..

Cross-posting my response from another thread:

As someone who has extensive FPS experience with both KBM and controller, I can confidently say that any decent KBM player will wtfpwn any controller player. If KBM is allowed in DUST, it will become an even bigger balancing challenge than balancing n00bs and those with millions of SP. In fact, I don't see how KBM and controller could be balanced, unless turn speed is locked for KBM - and that might not be workable at all.

As much as I hate to say this, KBM is a really really bad idea for DUST. If every PS3 player had a bluetooth KB+M (I do), it would be a whole different story - but they don't.

Ah but alas look around the forums, what you see? EVE people trying to shove their game down the throat of dust, pandering towards pc elements, rpg elements...anything but fps, and if you complain "go back to cod" "adapt or die" the last one being hypocritical based on the topic at hand. Dunno about you but im calling this game DOA, dead on arrival. Whose to blame? look around...

Sounds like a pretty easy problem to fix. Buy one, its not like they are expensive, especially if one cares for performance.

Anyway, I am in favour of kbm on ps3, its a superior interface and franckly every game should have support for it, i am sure a lot of people would give up their pc's over a console, wich is pretty much a pc anyway.

Raaargh I'm a PC player Raaargh. Raaargh console players should have to adapt to a M+KB even though it's a console Raaargh.
That's what I got from that message.

It's a console, where the guys who made said console gave developers the ability to support KB/M as an optional control option if they wanted to do so.

That's not the problem. The problem is some PC players telling console users to adapt by using a KB+M but yet they won't adapt to a controller. The point is KB+M should not be at an advantage, that's like me going on PC and somehow have the controller at a bigger advantage (hypothetically speaking). PC players would kick up as much of a fuss as the console players do. If they make it so they are both on even playing field then that's fine, however if they do not the game could be dead before it even get's released.

People who play fighting games sometimes use arcade sticks. In some games, it can give a significant advantage. Arcade sticks are expensive.

Do people cry about it? No. They do not. Using a custom setup is an accepted and often expected part of the hobby.

People who play racing games competitively sometimes use wheels. Same deal.

Flight games, flight sticks. All of these things can give an innate advantage if you learn how to master them.... and no one complains.

Yet when it comes down to FPS games... and ONLY on consoles... suddenly nobody can handle a little KB/M. I guess console shooters are special, huh?

Well, if you read the interview that Isarian Menoptra posted, you'll see that matchmaking will know who uses KB/M and who uses controller, and will match games accordingly.

There will be no matchmaking in Nullsec, which is the only relevant part of this game for any Dust corp that wishes to make its mark. The kind of unbalance that M/KB will cause (if supported fully) means that a lot of players will never make that leap (or even bother playing), because all the most dominant corps will be the ones with mouse and keyboard.

Raaargh I'm a PC player Raaargh. Raaargh console players should have to adapt to a M+KB even though it's a console Raaargh.
That's what I got from that message.

Valid points. Does it make it any less unfair though?

The reason CCP made DUST for consoles was to appeal to a different gaming market. If console players are getting owned by even a few EVE players with KBM, many will not stay. What do hours of grinding and skill mean for a gamepad user if in a supposedly even battle with a KBM user, they lose? I would quit and play something else.

Call me a quitter all you want, but it's no fun playing versus someone who always has an edge in combat. It's ironic that 'Adapt or DIe' is touted by many EVE players, yet they refuse to play with a gamepad on a console game.

Access to better hardware is not forbiden, thus its not unfair.

I am in the *redacted* beta of a game about warplanes. People can play with whatever controls they want.

Control sticks have an advantage over kbm because its far more easier to pull crazy manouvers, while the mouse is limited on the axis games and doing a barrel roll is pretty hard.

Still i play with mouse and not complain. If it really matters to me I would go and spend some bucks on a decent control surface.

Theres diferent controls everywhere, on every platform. Its a matter of choice to use them or no.

Hell, I could use mouse on PS3 right now if I bought that things that allow a mouse to be used, that i am sure a lot of people are already using anyway. Just waiting because support was annouced for kbm even before the beta started.....

suck it

I get 18/5 all the time with my controller. I will use the M&K for sniping maybe. but only becuase I'm more used to it.

just wait everyone is ging to ***** that M&K is gimped and unfair. dust as turning speed as a part of game play. you think suddenly they are going to remove that for M&K players? please, it'll be fine. the mouse is just another type of joystick. in PC games you can do super fast 180s in a blink with high dpi. Won't be the case in dust, your aiming speed will be tied to which suit your wearing.

You are right, bad K/D has nothing to do with the DS3, its because the player is not yet skilled enough to use it. I believe that even the HC PC players would learn to master the DS3 if they where forced to.

Now that the next build has been confirmed having M/K, I will be looking forward to seeing how much of a advantage M/K will have over DS3. I hope my assumptions about M/K are wrong, and it wont give an unfair advantage, but since Unreal T had segregation of M/K and DS3 players it must have been their for a reason.

It will give you an advantage, mostly in reaction time.
Aiming ability will still boil down to the individual.

Just having a mouse and keyboard does not instantly make you a god, I think people are overreacting.

I am certainly against the segregation of anything. Should people want to do things a certain way, LET THEM DO IT.

quote from ccp "We are also working to add controller-based filters into Instant Battle/Matchmaking for a following update"
sounds good for highsec console gamers.

What about nullsec console gamers? I guess they are just screwed.

Whoah whoah whoah, just because it isn't forbidden doesn't mean it isn't unfair. A mouse is more accurate than a thumbstick when shooting. That's the whole point. It is unfair, because a mouse is loads better.

I'm glad you don't complain, but just because you don't care doesn't mean it isn't an issue either. This stuff matters when you get to high level gameplay. When giant contracts are on the line and I'm fighting good players, I don't want to be at a disadvantage simply because I use a gamepad to play.

Of course you can get things to use KBM on ps3. What I'm saying is that CCP shouldn't support it themselves. If a player wants to use KBM on a ps3 so badly, let them get the extra stuff required for them to do so. The barrier to using KBM should be higher, not lower. Why? Because a mouse makes a player more deadly than their thumbstick counterpart.

Correct that would screw console players, and its like telling us that we are second-rank players, that cant survive in null-sec. I foresee this M/K issue to be a permanent problem for Dust.

If CCP manages to balance KBM with the DS3, then I am perfectly fine with it.

However, if at any point it even SEEMS like the mouse is giving an unfair advantage (however slight) to KBM users, CCP should do away with their direct support of it.

There is absolutely NO reason that a player using the native input device for the ps3 should be at a disadvantage just because others choose to use KBM.

CCP better balance the KBM well and balance it soon.

Why are people acting like this is new?

CCP said it would be KMB compatible from before anyone other than eve players, and the most hardcore dust followers had even heard of the game.

Its something that eve players asked be done while the game was in development, and ccp (the great company that they are) obliged.

USB KBM are cheap. You can easily go and pick up both for <$40. The game is F2P anyways, so why complain?

If you think its an unfair advantage, then go get a KBM. If you prefer the DS3, use that instead.

You know, I'm not sure I understand why people would consciously choose to stay with a control method that they freely acknowledge to be inferior.

lol, I often ask that question of myself. I really want to get a gaming rig, but I just can't afford it right now. Almost all the games I want to play anymore are on PC and they look so much better. I'm jealous.

In theory, people should switch over to the superior control inputs, but the fact is that nearly everyone on console uses a gamepad. Given that fact, CCP should be very careful how they balance the KBM. I for one, want this game to survive and thrive. Can't do that without the gamepad-using lower-class.

Also as mention above, learning curve, again this is rooted in all the EVE players that wont adapt.. because most console players already know how to use the DS3... which again proves that this game should have been PC instead of PS3.

It just seems like that if people care enough to come on the forums and complain about it, they would buy a cheap mouse and keyboard and use the "unfair" advantage for themselves.

I'm not saying everyone should use one control method or the other--just that both are open to all players.

Why would a company make a pc game where to compete on the highest level, players had to purchase a gamepad? It's the same concept.

Vocal minority - a phenomena well known on all forums and especially prevalent and nasty on the EVE arena.

Why don't you look around and talk to those EVE players who are trying to present their views in a respectful manner, there are quite a few. And while you are at it why don't you start with yourself - In your rush to generalize all EVE players and condemn this game you take out your frustrations on a post of an EVE player who thinks that the opinions of FPS people should have more weight... Honestly, I am not sure if I understand you correctly and I don't want to judge your intentions but you are the one who used the word: hypocrisy...

I know for a fact that if this was made on PC and somehow the DS3 users had an advantage, EVE players would kick up as much of a fuss as we have, if not more.

I'm not crazy about having to buy a M&K setup, but I'm comfortable with the idea of basically needing one to compete in nullsec infantry combat.

Plus, let us not forget that there are plenty of roles in which having super accuracy is not essential. (Vehicles, support roles, Swarm Launching, etc.)

This is actually fairly common, many console-to-PC ports work far better with a controller than a mouse and keyboard. Even some console-style games native to PC work better with a controller. That's actually one of my pet peeves, when a game comes out on console and PC and the interface is the same as the console version with mouse support tacked on. Bethesda games since Oblivion, I'm looking at you.

Fighting games are an example where people often buy a special controller (an arcade stick) so they'll have the same control scheme whether they're playing on PS3, Xbox, PC, or arcade.

Also, to play a team game at the highest level, you need a mic headset. That's extra hardware you have to buy, and some of them are rather pricy.

Lets talk about vocal minorioties, like the group you described, the "respectful" EVE players, using the term loosely, seems to be the minority of the minority.

Cuz if it is... then alot of DS3 ONLY players are going to be turned off by the game. M&KB v DS3= Bringing a knife (ds3) to a gunfight (m&kb) ending in rage quitting for ds3 players ALL DAY! Ultimately resulting in the demise of DUST 514 on the ps3! Hopefully that doesn't happen. What do you guys think about it?

I think that as an Eve Online player - you're coming into my world at the expense of most of my companions not being able to partake in their fate. As such, being as I'm not as skilled with a DS3, while a mouse and keyboard may be more advantageous it's something that I'm used to. When this game was announced to be console only a lot of Eve players were discouraged - I went out and bought a PS3 specifically for this opportunity. Having a keyboard and mouse as my combat format just seems to lighten the blow a little bit.

Honestly, a lot of you are complaining for no reason at all. The thing that nobody realizes is that there are special gaming mice out there that are designed specifically for PS3, and players have been using them in COD/BF/etc for a long time. The only thing that CCP is doing is providing unanimous mkb support so that players can plug in their optical logitech or w/e and not have to worry about spending 2 weeks configuring their mouse.

Also, there always begs the question, is there really that big of a difference when it comes down to mkb vs. controller? I'm not exactly a pro player, but I'm half decent with kbm, and I've got friends on PC who will rock me in BF with a controller.

TL;DR -

nextgengamingblog.com/blog/hori-reveal-new-control-method-for-mw3/

http://www.penguinunited.com/

Why cry when a company supports it when it's been supported by 3rd party companies for years now?

Can't wait to test it.

I just hope that if it does create an imbalance in the game, people are level headed enough to realize that it is not good for the health of the game going forward.

really, yuor so short minded imo.

ill honour the guarantee. :)

really, yuor so short minded imo.

ill honour the guarantee. :)

like a ferral alley cat.

Just implement the precursor patch already, and also, fully support M/KB so I don't need to wait for a PC release, really. I'll never play a FPS on a console with a controller, any other genre is fine, no problem, but just not an FPS.