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testguy242
44
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Posted - 2012.08.09 22:09:00 -
[121] - Quote
sundown d'kay wrote:Also as mention above, learning curve, again this is rooted in all the EVE players that wont adapt.. because most console players already know how to use the DS3... which again proves that this game should have been PC instead of PS3.
Can we stop acting like EVE players are not console players? If they're playing DUST, then they are necessarily console players also because it means that they own a PS3 and are playing a game on it.
If you want to make it "us vs them" then make it "EVE players vs non-EVE players", not "EVE players vs console players".
And when I said a mouse was superior, I meant for aiming in a FPS. In fact, that's one of the very few applications where I think the mouse is the best available option. For pretty much everything else, there is a better control method. |
Super Cargo
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
428
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 22:13:00 -
[122] - Quote
testguy242 wrote:
It just seems like that if people care enough to come on the forums and complain about it, they would buy a cheap mouse and keyboard and use the "unfair" advantage for themselves.
I'm not saying everyone should use one control method or the other--just that both are open to all players.
I would agree with you, except that the DS3 is the native control method for the ps3. It's not fair to make console games buy extra peripherals for a game that shouldn't need it.
Why would a company make a pc game where, to compete effectively, players had to purchase a gamepad? It's the same concept.
But I digress... |
Ad ski
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
209
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 22:14:00 -
[123] - Quote
Simple thing is, if you want to tap into a certain market, making that market second best isn't going to do you any favours. If they don't balance this correctly then the game will be dead before it's even released. Console players will not hang around for months waiting for it to be balanced. I want this to succeed I really do. The fact of that matter is this, if PS3 players can't experience the full game because of being at a disadvantage then they won't even entertain the matchmaking section.
As for the comment of "It just seems like that if people care enough to come on the forums and complain about it, they would buy a cheap mouse and keyboard and use the "unfair" advantage for themselves." We are console players. Why should we have to adapt to something that isn't native to our system? "Hey the game is on your console but to fully experience it and not be at a disadvantage you have to use a KB+M" See how stupid that sounds? I know for a fact that if this was made on PC and somehow the DS3 users had an advantage, EVE players would kick up as much of a fuss as we have, if not more. |
testguy242
44
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Posted - 2012.08.09 22:22:00 -
[124] - Quote
Super Cargo wrote:Why would a company make a pc game where to compete on the highest level, players had to purchase a gamepad? It's the same concept.
This is actually fairly common, many console-to-PC ports work far better with a controller than a mouse and keyboard. Even some console-style games native to PC work better with a controller. That's actually one of my pet peeves, when a game comes out on console and PC and the interface is the same as the console version with mouse support tacked on. Bethesda games since Oblivion, I'm looking at you.
Fighting games are an example where people often buy a special controller (an arcade stick) so they'll have the same control scheme whether they're playing on PS3, Xbox, PC, or arcade.
Also, to play a team game at the highest level, you need a mic headset. That's extra hardware you have to buy, and some of them are rather pricy. |
Surtur Reaperson
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
49
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Posted - 2012.08.09 22:23:00 -
[125] - Quote
Kev Crow wrote:
Vocal minority - a phenomena well known on all forums and especially prevalent and nasty on the EVE arena.
Why don't you look around and talk to those EVE players who are trying to present their views in a respectful manner, there are quite a few. And while you are at it why don't you start with yourself - In your rush to generalize all EVE players and condemn this game you take out your frustrations on a post of an EVE player who thinks that the opinions of FPS people should have more weight... Honestly, I am not sure if I understand you correctly and I don't want to judge your intentions but you are the one who used the word: hypocrisy...
Lets talk about vocal minorioties, like the group you described, the "respectful" EVE players, using the term loosely, seems to be the minority of the minority. That on itself would scrap your own argument. Im not rushing or being generalizing, im calling it like it is, by the numbers. Im not frustrated at all, for starters I could care less of the EVE lore or whatever they try to impose on top of key game mechanics, and really havent invested myself onto it that much. And no, Im not taking a hit on the guy, actually I whoheartedly agree with him, but I let him know that unfortunately, most of the testers are not like him.
And yes I call them hypocrite by the mere e-peen bullcrap they had said since the begining hurr durr "adapt or die"... but cant adapt to a ps3 controller....really?
And that its what its gonna drive this into the ground, another thing for the OTHER EVE players, the selfrighteous ones, just cause KB/M was included at the begining doesnt make it right. Its like saying its ok that street fighter to have disk lock content or resell the same game with the extra stuff, just cause they have been doing it since the 90s.... oh **** they do think its right... |
Knarf Black
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
397
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Posted - 2012.08.09 22:30:00 -
[126] - Quote
I'm not crazy about having to buy a M&K setup, but I'm comfortable with the idea of basically needing one to compete in nullsec infantry combat.
Plus, let us not forget that there are plenty of roles in which having super accuracy is not essential. (Vehicles, support roles, Swarm Launching, etc.) |
testguy242
44
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Posted - 2012.08.09 22:35:00 -
[127] - Quote
Ad ski wrote:I know for a fact that if this was made on PC and somehow the DS3 users had an advantage, EVE players would kick up as much of a fuss as we have, if not more.
Fighting games come out on PC and the keyboard is a terrible controller for them. I've never heard a PC fighting game player (and yes, they do exist) complain, they just buy a controller better suited for the game.
The FPS as we know it was created for the mouse just like fighting games were created for joystick. It honestly kind of blows my mind that FPSes are so popular on a platform with a controller that's so ill-suited to the genre. For a long time FPSes were pretty much only a PC genre. I'm guessing a lot of current FPS players are too young to remember that, but if you told me back in the 90s that FPSes would be the most popular genre on console, I wouldn't have believed you.
BTW, I'm not saying they should add mouse support or not, I honestly don't care.
Look at it another way: what if they improved Move support so that it was by far the superior control scheme? Would you still complain then? |
Super Cargo
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
428
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 22:37:00 -
[128] - Quote
Knarf Black wrote:I'm not crazy about having to buy a M&K setup, but I'm comfortable with the idea of basically needing one to compete in nullsec infantry combat.
Plus, let us not forget that there are plenty of roles in which having super accuracy is not essential. (Vehicles, support roles, Swarm Launching, etc.)
Wait, so because I play with a gamepad I can't compete effectively in nullsec AND the only roles I can serve are vehicles and support? That just means it is a bad game if 50% or more of the user base can only play a few of the roles needed in DUST.
As I said before, CCP should either not support KBM or they need to do a really good job balancing it. An apathetic attitude like yours Knarf Black will drive this game into the ground. |
Surtur Reaperson
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
49
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Posted - 2012.08.09 22:37:00 -
[129] - Quote
So lets limit the natives playstyle just cause pc players think ds3 its too hard? Is that how it is? Yep this should had been a pc game to cater you people I think they could still have time for it its not that late. Not taking hits just being honest. |
V Shadow
DUST University
Ivy League
34
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Posted - 2012.08.09 22:44:00 -
[130] - Quote
I personally think that its a good idea to test this out while in beta just to check if its unbalanced.
But I strongly feel that is kb/m is too much better they should remove it completely (except for chat and possibly any map section for deployable items) and I'm someone who would prefer to use kb/m!
After playing the beta for the amount of time I have, I have slowly got back into the swing of using the playstaion controller, as I got a ps3 for dust (and mgs4) and had not used the controllers since using my ps2. so will now not mind of the kb/m was never put in.
when I use pc shooters I actually use a tracker ball mouse, and its the tracker ball feel which is what I miss the most! just wish someone will bring out a controller which has a tracker ball instead of the right stick!
testguy242 wrote:Super Cargo wrote:Why would a company make a pc game where to compete on the highest level, players had to purchase a gamepad? It's the same concept. This is actually fairly common, many console-to-PC ports work far better with a controller than a mouse and keyboard. Even some console-style games native to PC work better with a controller. That's actually one of my pet peeves, when a game comes out on console and PC and the interface is the same as the console version with mouse support tacked on. Bethesda games since Oblivion, I'm looking at you. Fighting games are an example where people often buy a special controller (an arcade stick) so they'll have the same control scheme whether they're playing on PS3, Xbox, PC, or arcade. Also, to play a team game at the highest level, you need a mic headset. That's extra hardware you have to buy, and some of them are rather pricy.
would just like to say that is true, had to buy a xbox controller for the pc to get the most out of some games.
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Kev Crow
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
24
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Posted - 2012.08.10 13:04:00 -
[131] - Quote
Surtur Reaperson wrote:
Lets talk about vocal minorioties, like the group you described, the "respectful" EVE players, using the term loosely, seems to be the minority of the minority.
But that's the point here, vocal minority means that most of the "respectful" EVE players do not engage in forum squabbles at all.
At least now I know were you're coming from. It seems to me that the only thing you seem to be wholeheartedly agreeing with is your own conviction that this game will fail because of a rather small number of EVE players, ( no matter how carefully you look "by the numbers" its still a tiny group ).
Well, in any case I do not agree with you for the following reasons:
- I have seen this kind of self righteous raging on EVE forums for years and in spite of it that game is doing better and better every year.
- I am a PC payer and I will learn how to play DS3. I couldn't care less if they ad KBM as long as it is balanced.
- For every EVE player that shouts *adapt or die* I know at least two who have no problem playing FPS with DS3.
- I also know that this game is not supposed to be exactly like other console FPS games, so what some people will see as game damaging nerfs others will simply see as change and will embrace it.
Since the DS3 controller is completely new to me I will learn to use it with DUST 514. I have no comparison to other FPS console games and therefore I am open to any solution that works for me. You on the other hand seem to be an experienced console player, with well ingrained habits and convictions about what is right and wrong in a FPS console game.
Are you open to any changes at all or is it just like with the EVE "wanna be gods" - adapt or die? |
tribal wyvern
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
673
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 13:23:00 -
[132] - Quote
jus nukem wrote:Cuz if it is... then alot of DS3 ONLY players are going to be turned off by the game. M&KB v DS3= Bringing a knife (ds3) to a gunfight (m&kb) ending in rage quitting for ds3 players ALL DAY! Ultimately resulting in the demise of DUST 514 on the ps3! Hopefully that doesn't happen. What do you guys think about it?
No its not really coming, that's why it says it is in the precursor patch notes. ;) |
zerkin gerend
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
67
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Posted - 2012.08.10 14:10:00 -
[133] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:jus nukem wrote:Cuz if it is... then alot of DS3 ONLY players are going to be turned off by the game. M&KB v DS3= Bringing a knife (ds3) to a gunfight (m&kb) ending in rage quitting for ds3 players ALL DAY! Ultimately resulting in the demise of DUST 514 on the ps3! Hopefully that doesn't happen. What do you guys think about it? I think that as an Eve Online player - you're coming into my world at the expense of most of my companions not being able to partake in their fate. As such, being as I'm not as skilled with a DS3, while a mouse and keyboard may be more advantageous it's something that I'm used to. When this game was announced to be console only a lot of Eve players were discouraged - I went out and bought a PS3 specifically for this opportunity. Having a keyboard and mouse as my combat format just seems to lighten the blow a little bit.
you are comeing onto our world *ps3* Adapt or die
but i see were you are comeing from
as of now i have a new gameing kb/m on my bed waiting to be used |
PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
781
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 14:18:00 -
[134] - Quote
Can't wait to test it.
I just hope that if it does create an imbalance in the game, people are level headed enough to realize that it is not good for the health of the game going forward. |
TVDB Fr057y88
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2012.08.10 17:42:00 -
[135] - Quote
Honestly, a lot of you are complaining for no reason at all. The thing that nobody realizes is that there are special gaming mice out there that are designed specifically for PS3, and players have been using them in COD/BF/etc for a long time. The only thing that CCP is doing is providing unanimous mkb support so that players can plug in their optical logitech or w/e and not have to worry about spending 2 weeks configuring their mouse.
Also, there always begs the question, is there really that big of a difference when it comes down to mkb vs. controller? I'm not exactly a pro player, but I'm half decent with kbm, and I've got friends on PC who will rock me in BF with a controller.
TL;DR -
nextgengamingblog.com/blog/hori-reveal-new-control-method-for-mw3/
http://www.penguinunited.com/
Why cry when a company supports it when it's been supported by 3rd party companies for years now? |
sundown d'kay
DETHDEALERS
12
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Posted - 2012.08.10 18:13:00 -
[136] - Quote
TVDB Fr057y88 wrote:Honestly, a lot of you are complaining for no reason at all. The thing that nobody realizes is that there are special gaming mice out there that are designed specifically for PS3, and players have been using them in COD/BF/etc for a long time. The only thing that CCP is doing is providing unanimous mkb support so that players can plug in their optical logitech or w/e and not have to worry about spending 2 weeks configuring their mouse. Also, there always begs the question, is there really that big of a difference when it comes down to mkb vs. controller? I'm not exactly a pro player, but I'm half decent with kbm, and I've got friends on PC who will rock me in BF with a controller. TL;DR - nextgengamingblog.com/blog/hori-reveal-new-control-method-for-mw3/http://www.penguinunited.com/Why cry when a company supports it when it's been supported by 3rd party companies for years now?
The third party Rube Goldberg contraptions that you link to has nothing to do with real mouse support. It translates the mouse movements to the DS3, and maps the keys to the keyboard. It might give a slight advantage over regular DS3 players, but honestly I doubt it very much.
But giving a player access to a fully supported M/K that will own DS3 all day long, that I'm very sure of.
One other thing, if CCP filters M/K / DS3 players so they cant play in the same match, how can we ever test if M/K creates an unbalanced gameplay ? And how will they do that filtering when Corp battles become available ? |
Flame Highsea
Doomheim
28
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Posted - 2012.08.10 18:46:00 -
[137] - Quote
discomfort =
My Ps3 is in livingroom with 46" 3d Led tv and I sit on couch and often a glass of Ardberg with me..
Now to change that to my 23" PC to get place and ergonomy for Kb+mouse ;-(
Not good.. and I could not use Move with Kz3 from that place.. Blah..
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Lonewolf514
79
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Posted - 2012.08.10 19:28:00 -
[138] - Quote
PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE wrote:Can't wait to test it.
I just hope that if it does create an imbalance in the game, people are level headed enough to realize that it is not good for the health of the game going forward.
really, yuor so short minded imo.
ill honour the guarantee. :)
like a ferral alley cat. |
PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
781
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 19:29:00 -
[139] - Quote
Lonewolf514 wrote:PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE wrote:Can't wait to test it.
I just hope that if it does create an imbalance in the game, people are level headed enough to realize that it is not good for the health of the game going forward. really, yuor so short minded imo. ill honour the guarantee. :)
wut? |
Super Cargo
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
428
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 20:44:00 -
[140] - Quote
Lonewolf514 wrote:PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE wrote:Can't wait to test it.
I just hope that if it does create an imbalance in the game, people are level headed enough to realize that it is not good for the health of the game going forward. really, yuor so short minded imo. ill honour the guarantee. :) like a ferral alley cat.
Just like a tarzan in the jungles of russia =)
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Dreamion08
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.08.10 21:58:00 -
[141] - Quote
Just implement the precursor patch already, and also, fully support M/KB so I don't need to wait for a PC release, really. I'll never play a FPS on a console with a controller, any other genre is fine, no problem, but just not an FPS. |
Super Cargo
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
428
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 22:14:00 -
[142] - Quote
Dreamion08 wrote:Just implement the precursor patch already, and also, fully support M/KB so I don't need to wait for a PC release, really. I'll never play a FPS on a console with a controller, any other genre is fine, no problem, but just not an FPS.
adapt or die b!tch |
Ryjmont
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2012.08.12 12:51:00 -
[143] - Quote
I am a console player, not a hard core but I've spent some time with CoD, Battlefield 3 and others.
Ussualy when playing CoD I am in top 5 so I am not bad with controllers at all.
I came to this beta thru Mercenary Pack simply because I liked the idea of the game, always been dreaming of a MMORPGFPS  something with economy like WoW, quests etc. But in First person shooter format, so Dust 514 scratch my itch, and the fact its also Sci-Fi made my day, never been interested in EvE before.
So when I found out there is beta of the game I jumped straight in, I bought mercenary pack, and joined the community.
First I noticed is the bad controlls, and I felt like the game is in Alpha stage, I felt cheated by how it was advertised, but gave it a chance. It's been like a month or so since I started playing it and the main issues haven't been resolved yet, force feedback being the biggest one for me. So I noticed this should be PC game (or made by people who aren't familiar with PS3)
Back to the topic:
I think KB+M could actualy work well for Dust simply because it is F2P, its revenue doesn't come from the sales of the game just from the supporters who are willing to pay to improve their characters. So if they are ready to pay for in-game benefits they would definitely be willing to pay for a IMHO a superior and more acurate way to controll the game.
This could create a niche in PS3 gaming community, who are fed up with FPS on a controller and would like to get back to how it was before, it is cheaper to buy a mouse and keyboard than gaming PC (and then maintaining high spec so you can play games on it). I hate that PS3 became mainly FPS oriented platform where it was the opposite in the past, I rarely find a two player game on console any more and most of the games released are FPS, this is crazy, and yet ps3 supports KB+M so it is obvious to give players a choice.
It will create a balance issue, for sure, but looking from the bussiness perspective... they don't need causal gamers in Dust, they need people who are willing to improve their gameplay, and KB+M is the way to improve it.
Giving a chance to try a game without a KB+M is a great feature but if you want to stay, you probably would appreciate the effort made to allow you using a more comftable way of playing FPS.
One request if I may, since force feedback is lacking, could you please at least make the screen shake or whatever when you are in scope mode? or something to tell you you are shoot at.
If you want to play on the sofa get a computer tray table or whatever... pice of board or something and put it on your lap, or sit in a armchair with a board on top, there is pleanty of things like that.
computer tray desks- google search
Do not nerf KB+M to balance to controller, just improve aiming aid for controllers slightly and everybody will be happy.
PS. I haven't got a KB+M yet. so my opinion is not biased. |
Darkz azurr
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
105
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Posted - 2012.08.12 13:09:00 -
[144] - Quote
Do not nerf KB+M to balance to controller, just improve aiming aid for controllers slightly
you do realize that most fps players on ps3 will turn off any kind of aim assist right? . having an aim assist for controller balance a mouse is not gonna work at all. |
Radi Jeager
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.08.12 13:34:00 -
[145] - Quote
tbh, I know people who pwn with controllers over keyboards, and use programs to map controllers to keyboard functions to use them in thier regular games.
I dont see why people complain about this. If you turn the sensitivity of the controller up, it'll match a keyboard and mouse. PS3 controlers and thier sixaxis are very sensitive, compared ot their old PS counterparts.
TBH I cant game for **** on a controller. I'd consider the move thing but I still cant game for **** with that either. I need a keyboard. But, thats me. |
Ryjmont
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 13:57:00 -
[146] - Quote
@Darkz Azurr
Aim assist is not an option on a consoles it's given, maybe you don't even know it's there, but without it you wouldn't be able to aim at anything with a controller. If you want to check it out yourself play any console FPS, ask a friend to join a match, tell him to stand in some distance from you, aim at him, and tell him to move slightly, you will see that the reticule will move in the direction he's moving - this is also called aim stick. I think the only game on console that allows you to switch it of is CoD: back ops, so play this one and turn it off, you will see how hard it is to play that way.
In CoD that's almost the only reason why to take holographic sight over red dot, because you can see a @#%*# thru holo, but it's got better aim assist
Its not a cheat, it's there so you can play FPS on consoles, your reticule is like a magnet, the better aim assist the better it is drawn to a target.
This is not the best vid but the only reasonable I found.
aim aid |
Kazuul Ironfist
3
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Posted - 2012.08.12 21:02:00 -
[147] - Quote
I am definitely looking forward to keyboard and mouse support, is there any word on when this will be implemented? |
Ryjmont
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2012.08.13 01:25:00 -
[148] - Quote
August 14th - 21st. with Precursor patch
Precursor patch notes
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Denzin Hast
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2012.08.13 04:09:00 -
[149] - Quote
Wow. Took me a while to read through all of that. Anyway, people are neglecting to mention something very important, and that is market saturation. There are PLENTY of fps games on ps3. While I'll admit they aren't quite like this game they still serve that general purpose. Ccp NEEDS to balance the Ds3 with the m/kb if they want this game to be any sort of successful. If people have to learn a whole new way to play a game they're just gonna be like "screw it" and play something else. Ccp and Dust aren't very know and they have to go up against juggernauts like cod or battlefield, something like having necessary kb/m to be successful to buy will kill the game. And with it f2p there isn't any sunk cost keeping you from doing something else. |
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