So wait, we've moved on from "fix spawn camping" to "make spawn camping easier"?

So wait, we've moved on from "fix spawn camping" to "make spawn camping easier"?

If this game really is supposed to be a sandbox redlines and safe zones have no place. People shouldn't be able to hide in their spawn when they are getting destroyed.

If this game really is supposed to be a sandbox redlines and safe zones have no place. People shouldn't be able to hide in their spawn when they are getting destroyed.

redlining and spawn camping happen because one side is too lazy to properly play the objective.

So what you're saying is "When we've red-lined the other team and are mearely harvesting them for kills to pad our KDR, we should be able to more easily camp their last remaining spawn" is it?

I don't mind spawn-camping, I have way too many suits with uplinks to care - but seriously, your complaint is that you have to sit at a redline and pound them rather than being able to sit on their spawn and kill them close-up?

All the removal of the red-line would do is encourage players to quit matches when they're losing - who'd spawn into a match where the only spawn is camped by the entire opposition team?

If this game really is supposed to be a sandbox redlines and safe zones have no place. People shouldn't be able to hide in their spawn when they are getting destroyed.

spawning will be fixed. in skirmish, players will spawn in one of many possible spawn locations surrounding a control point, instead of just one. the way-back spawn will also shift around if enemies are nearby

@Nobar
Draw Distance is something all game shave so really it won't be removed anytime soon...not even on PS4 or even on PS5.

"explode-y kablow-y 514".

"Draw distance is a computer graphics term, defined as the maximum distance of objects in a three dimensional scene that are drawn by the rendering engine. Polygons that lie behind the draw distance won't be drawn to the screen."

Norbar You here are dividing Draw Distance and Rendering Distance but actually they are one thing.


Sorry if I sound pedantic for this technicality but we will understand each other better....anyway you are right: Draw/Rendering Distance is a problem.
For game that is set on maps of 5km it's depressing and objectively hinders the gameplay and frankly I don't understand why this is still present after so much time and this far in the development!

Proto just asked for the redline to disappear. He didn't say at any point "do I can be a spawn camper". You all read what you want to think, not what's written.
Bitter much?

Just Cause 2 on PS3 proved that PS3 can achieve enormous Draw Distance.
In Just Cause 2 you have 1 player and thousands of things to be processed for him but here map are barren (no trees bushes, rocks, oceans, cars, NPC, no nothing) so the engine have to process very few things.

In Dust 514 for 64 players there ar less things to be processed then for 1 player Just Cause 2: DD can't be this limited.

If this game really is supposed to be a sandbox redlines and safe zones have no place. People shouldn't be able to hide in their spawn when they are getting destroyed.

Protoman, youre getting on my nerves. Its funny you want to remove redlining when you leave the battle whenever a tank starts kicking your ass.

HIs actions are completely understandable. I'm surprised he even plays this game because of all the overpowered tanks. I think I'm right in saying jumpman is a specialist. He specializes in antipersonnel. He is probably the best there is. If there is no one to take out tanks he can't do his job.

And by his own logic, he lost for being such a poor soldier who can't be bothered to support his team in anything other than striclty AP combat. So he then must pay the price and die repeatedly to his aggressor until the match ends. Or...wait...would he not like that?

HIs actions are completely understandable. I'm surprised he even plays this game because of all the overpowered tanks. I think I'm right in saying jumpman is a specialist. He specializes in antipersonnel. He is probably the best there is. If there is no one to take out tanks he can't do his job.

And by his own logic, he lost for being such a poor soldier who can't be bothered to support his team in anything other than striclty AP combat. So he then must pay the price and die repeatedly to his aggressor until the match ends. Or...wait...would he not like that?

That's just unnecessary... This is why we need grouping. Specialist are good in every fps. You need a close quarters guy. An assault rifle person. A sniper, and an anti vehicle person who can also specialize in smgs as well.

You don't ever expect a Sniper to kill a Tank. Your point holds no water. His logic is the same as mine: Play the game, don't chase the kills. The reason these things happen (as I stated earlier) is because no one is PLAYING DUST-514, they're playing "explode-y Kablow-y 514" (Launching Early 2013, BTW) as a CoD clone.

I think that the more this happens the better. Eventually people are going to have to learn the hard way that not dropping mobile uplinks is simply not an option.

Redlines need to go and if people are fighting losing battles rather than getting destroyed or quitting out players should be able to vote to end the match and the losing team should have to forfeit a % of their gear, SP, and ISK to the winning team.

I'm guessing that CCP has prioritized developing their network and networked events (hit detection, lag, comms, connection issues, player database, etc.) and basic game mechanics (physics, collision issues, disappearing asset issues, etc.) over draw distance. The fact that this is a multiplayer game confounds a lot of what would otherwise be simpler.

And CCP has said they hear what players are saying regarding draw distances. I don't recall any firm promises, though.

This is silly. Nobody will ever, ever press the "lose the match and give the spawn camping team slaughtering me some of my stuff" button instead of the power button on their console.

It was kind of a disheartening weekend, seeing high level players I respected parking on the towers, quicktossing REs, and quitting out of matches simply because their team wasn't winning handily.

Yes, the lack of grouping and the constant search for new exploits are very annoying, but if you care that much about your beta KDR, why not just quit while you're ahead and await the final release?

Where is KDR mentioned anywhere in this thread? secondly you'd be surprised how many people would wave a white flag of surrender and minimize their loses by simply forfeiting a match. By surrendering not only would they get a lose, but they would also get some of their SP and ISK. When people PS quit out of games they lose everything, and did nothing but waste their precious time.

This is silly. Nobody will ever, ever press the "lose the match and give the spawn camping team slaughtering me some of my stuff" button instead of the power button on their console.

It was kind of a disheartening weekend, seeing high level players I respected parking on the towers, quicktossing REs, and quitting out of matches simply because their team wasn't winning handily.

Yes, the lack of grouping and the constant search for new exploits are very annoying, but if you care that much about your beta KDR, why not just quit while you're ahead and await the final release?

Where is KDR mentioned anywhere in this thread? secondly you'd be surprised how many people would wave a white flag of surrender and minimize their loses by simply forfeiting a match. By surrendering not only would they get a lose, but they would also get some of their SP and ISK. When people PS quit out of games they lose everything, and did nothing but waste their precious time.

As the game is currently implemented, an anti-vehicle infantry unit can not use a Swarm Launcher to gain a lock on a target that is annihilating you with direct fire from out of visual range.

Two options when totally overrun:

1) Quit Out: Lose whatever equipment you already lost in the match and the current fitting and receive 0 SP and 0 ISK.

2) Surrender: Lose your current fitting, and receive greater than 0 SP and greater than 0 ISK.

Simple logic. If you aren't choosing option 2 you're an idiot. The problem is right now we have:

1) Quit Out: Lose whatever equipment you already lost in the match and the current fitting and receive 0 SP and 0 ISK.

2) Keep dying: Lose your current fitting, and the next one, and the next one, and the next one. And receive greater than 0 SP and greater than 0 ISK.

Players should be able to spawn in a safe zone. Are you seriously trying to run off all the new players. With a game with this much depth there needs to be a safe zone. Your main goal in skirmish is to capture the objective, not spawn camp them. Should be ashamed lol.

This is silly. Nobody will ever, ever press the "lose the match and give the spawn camping team slaughtering me some of my stuff" button instead of the power button on their console.

It was kind of a disheartening weekend, seeing high level players I respected parking on the towers, quicktossing REs, and quitting out of matches simply because their team wasn't winning handily.

Yes, the lack of grouping and the constant search for new exploits are very annoying, but if you care that much about your beta KDR, why not just quit while you're ahead and await the final release?

So people should just waste their time fighting a losing battle?

If this game really is supposed to be a sandbox redlines and safe zones have no place. People shouldn't be able to hide in their spawn when they are getting destroyed.

Yes. This is a game, not real life. Just relish the fact that you pinned them down in there spawn. That itself is a victory. If you had it where you could spawn camp there spawn then EVERYBODY would do it and no novice skill ranged players would stick around. Now in NullSec......I'm game for it but players should know what to expect when they go to NullSec.

I agree. Grouping is necessary and specialization is the name of the game. But...I dunno. I guess I just look at it differently. Instead of constantly spawning in with an AR when faced with an immediate major tank threat, I would expect my team, even the specialists, to change to an alternate fitting. Even a militia fitting, because that extra 500-1000 damage a few times over can make or break a tank. I know - I watched three marauders do down within seconds of each other because the other team got smart and loaded out with swarms and forge guns. Pop pop pop. Only one got called back in, and it went down quickly.

Of course, if we get rid of redlines, maybe I could just sit in the spawn with my tank and the enemy would clip it when they spawn and immediately die without being given the opportunity to even shoot...

Pfft.. People these days. Pansies. The whole lot of them.

The line must drawn here! No farther!

People need to grow a pair.

There is a point of merit in this topic, but I fear it just require a huge reevaluation on how battles are staged. By sheer technical limitation, there has to be an edge to the map and until we have actual hot drops with with viable attacking and defense options, I would rather the redline have a lore reason. For example, the MCC could project a very tight POS style shield on the deployment zone (the red-line). Perhaps with a limitation that it is exit only (so no bouncing in and out of immunity).

Personally, I would love to see the battle open with the attackers coming in by loaded dropships and RDVs with pilots already jacked in. Then leave it up to the attackers and defenders to see if a foothold can be established and where. But CCP is trying to "idiot-proof" some aspects of the game; I doubt an opening that could be stonewalled so brutally will be allowed to go live, even if it is more immersion.

In most games i've found that the people who don't care about spawn camping are the ones who quit out of games when they are being spawn camped. They love doing it to other people but they despise it so much they leave games and are never affected by it.

Proto is not to blame for CCP's epic design failure that is putting spawns in 100m open ground. But don't forget "it's a beta" so we can't mention that.