DUST Search - Get rid of the redline

Omnipotent lilmamaj wrote:

Drake Lyons wrote:

Omnipotent lilmamaj wrote:

Icy Tiger wrote:

Protoman, youre getting on my nerves. Its funny you want to remove redlining when you leave the battle whenever a tank starts kicking your ass.

HIs actions are completely understandable. I'm surprised he even plays this game because of all the overpowered tanks. I think I'm right in saying jumpman is a specialist. He specializes in antipersonnel. He is probably the best there is. If there is no one to take out tanks he can't do his job.

And by his own logic, he lost for being such a poor soldier who can't be bothered to support his team in anything other than striclty AP combat. So he then must pay the price and die repeatedly to his aggressor until the match ends. Or...wait...would he not like that?

That's just unnecessary... This is why we need grouping. Specialist are good in every fps. You need a close quarters guy. An assault rifle person. A sniper, and an anti vehicle person who can also specialize in smgs as well.


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Drake Lyons Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 209	Posted - 2012.07.23 08:19:00 - [1] - Quote Well...I think the point of fact is that most of the time a game ends up at redline, maybe 5% of the opposing team "hides" as Pman is suggesting. Instead, they generally try to escape and push back to an objective, either on foot, with LAVs, dropships, or even the occasional surprise marauder. Removing the red line without offering any "surrender" condition for the game essentially serves only one purpose. It allows the winning to get closer to the fixed spawn points of the losing team, making it essentially impossible for the already harangued losing team to do anything other than spawn and die instantly...repeatedly...for the rest of the round. So yes. Unless further mechanics are added or changed, requests for removing the redline amount simply to "I want to be able to get closer to their spawn so I can kill them more effectively. They've already lost, so let me just reap kills endlessly until the match is over." Or in other words - "Help me spawn camp better, CCP!"
Drake Lyons Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 209	Posted - 2012.07.23 16:54:00 - [2] - Quote Templar Two wrote: Just Cause 2 on PS3 proved that PS3 can achieve enormous Draw Distance. In Just Cause 2 you have 1 player and thousands of things to be processed for him but here map are barren (no trees bushes, rocks, oceans, cars, NPC, no nothing) so the engine have to process very few things. In Dust 514 for 64 players there ar less things to be processed then for 1 player Just Cause 2: DD can't be this limited. I'm guessing that CCP has prioritized developing their network and networked events (hit detection, lag, comms, connection issues, player database, etc.) and basic game mechanics (physics, collision issues, disappearing asset issues, etc.) over draw distance. The fact that this is a multiplayer game confounds a lot of what would otherwise be simpler. And CCP has said they hear what players are saying regarding draw distances. I don't recall any firm promises, though.
Drake Lyons Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 209	Posted - 2012.07.23 17:27:00 - [3] - Quote Omnipotent lilmamaj wrote: Icy Tiger wrote: Protoman, youre getting on my nerves. Its funny you want to remove redlining when you leave the battle whenever a tank starts kicking your ass. HIs actions are completely understandable. I'm surprised he even plays this game because of all the overpowered tanks. I think I'm right in saying jumpman is a specialist. He specializes in antipersonnel. He is probably the best there is. If there is no one to take out tanks he can't do his job. And by his own logic, he lost for being such a poor soldier who can't be bothered to support his team in anything other than striclty AP combat. So he then must pay the price and die repeatedly to his aggressor until the match ends. Or...wait...would he not like that?
Drake Lyons Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 209	Posted - 2012.07.23 17:43:00 - [4] - Quote Omnipotent lilmamaj wrote: Drake Lyons wrote: Omnipotent lilmamaj wrote: Icy Tiger wrote: Protoman, youre getting on my nerves. Its funny you want to remove redlining when you leave the battle whenever a tank starts kicking your ass. HIs actions are completely understandable. I'm surprised he even plays this game because of all the overpowered tanks. I think I'm right in saying jumpman is a specialist. He specializes in antipersonnel. He is probably the best there is. If there is no one to take out tanks he can't do his job. And by his own logic, he lost for being such a poor soldier who can't be bothered to support his team in anything other than striclty AP combat. So he then must pay the price and die repeatedly to his aggressor until the match ends. Or...wait...would he not like that? That's just unnecessary... This is why we need grouping. Specialist are good in every fps. You need a close quarters guy. An assault rifle person. A sniper, and an anti vehicle person who can also specialize in smgs as well. I agree. Grouping is necessary and specialization is the name of the game. But...I dunno. I guess I just look at it differently. Instead of constantly spawning in with an AR when faced with an immediate major tank threat, I would expect my team, even the specialists, to change to an alternate fitting. Even a militia fitting, because that extra 500-1000 damage a few times over can make or break a tank. I know - I watched three marauders do down within seconds of each other because the other team got smart and loaded out with swarms and forge guns. Pop pop pop. Only one got called back in, and it went down quickly. Of course, if we get rid of redlines, maybe I could just sit in the spawn with my tank and the enemy would clip it when they spawn and immediately die without being given the opportunity to even shoot...
Drake Lyons Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 209	Posted - 2012.07.23 17:51:00 - [5] - Quote Norbar Recturus wrote: Drake Lyons wrote: And by his own logic, he lost for being such a poor soldier who can't be bothered to support his team in anything other than striclty AP combat. So he then must pay the price and die repeatedly to his aggressor until the match ends. Or...wait...would he not like that? You don't ever expect a Sniper to kill a Tank. Your point holds no water. His logic is the same as mine: Play the game, don't chase the kills. The reason these things happen (as I stated earlier) is because no one is PLAYING DUST-514, they're playing "explode-y Kablow-y 514" (Launching Early 2013, BTW) as a CoD clone. I think that the more this happens the better. Eventually people are going to have to learn the hard way that not dropping mobile uplinks is simply not an option. I agree. It doesn't make a bit of sense. Perhaps you misunderstood... My point is that his suggestion to remove redlines does nothing except punish an already losing team and effectively remove any chance of someone making it out of the spawn and setting up an uplink or capping an objective. In other words, the people who failed should be made to fail harder. My remark followed the same logic - if he keeps dying to tanks because his fitting doesn't work against them, then he should be forced to keep spawning in his inefficient AP fitting for the rest of the game without the option to quit. In other words, the person who failed should be made to fail harder. Now, I'm not actually suggesting the latter. I think it's a terrible idea for the same reason i think the former is a terrible idea - it does nothing but break the game further. Opening up the final spawn more than is already done would essentially give the winning team an infinite number of free kills as long as their ammunition holds out.
Drake Lyons Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 209	Posted - 2012.07.23 17:54:00 - [6] - Quote xprotoman23 wrote: Redlines need to go and if people are fighting losing battles rather than getting destroyed or quitting out players should be able to vote to end the match and the losing team should have to forfeit a % of their gear, SP, and ISK to the winning team. The latter portion of this, I absolutely agree with. Allow for an alternate victory condition. Prevent the pain/annoyance of being camped. Let the clear losers leave with something (some SP, ISK, etc.) which is more than they would get for just quitting out. Give the victors a clear bonus for an unusually decisive victory.
Drake Lyons Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 209	Posted - 2012.07.23 19:04:00 - [7] - Quote Knarf Black wrote: This is silly. Nobody will ever, ever press the "lose the match and give the spawn camping team slaughtering me some of my stuff" button instead of the power button on their console. It was kind of a disheartening weekend, seeing high level players I respected parking on the towers, quicktossing REs, and quitting out of matches simply because their team wasn't winning handily. Yes, the lack of grouping and the constant search for new exploits are very annoying, but if you care that much about your beta KDR, why not just quit while you're ahead and await the final release? Two options when totally overrun: 1) Quit Out: Lose whatever equipment you already lost in the match and the current fitting and receive 0 SP and 0 ISK. 2) Surrender: Lose your current fitting, and receive greater than 0 SP and greater than 0 ISK. Simple logic. If you aren't choosing option 2 you're an idiot. The problem is right now we have: 1) Quit Out: Lose whatever equipment you already lost in the match and the current fitting and receive 0 SP and 0 ISK. 2) Keep dying: Lose your current fitting, and the next one, and the next one, and the next one. And receive greater than 0 SP and greater than 0 ISK.