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Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 137	Posted - 2015.11.24 10:49:00 - [1] - Quote I am Caldari, I fight in Caldari suits with Caldari weapons. But there are weapons which are OP to which Caldari weapons and suits seem to have no answer. One such weapon is the shotgun. It's not a Caldari weapon, so I don't use it, but what do I use to either counter it or emulate it? There's nothing right? Yes, there's the shotgun, if I were happy enough to use one but as I don't, that's not an option. No doubt people will think it's ridiculous that I don't just train the shotgun and use it. Well, apart from anything else, I don't like the idea of training FOMT which is basicly what the shotty jumpy scout is. I run Caldari Scout myself, and won't stoop to such ridiculous behaviour. Perhaps I should basicly accept that what I'm simply saying is this game has become ridiculous. Even in the short time I've been playing, I've seen it degenerate. Now it's just painful. But that's probably a discussion for another thread. So what is a Caldari fighter to do to counter all these ridiculous tactics? Other than leave, that is...
Krixus Flux Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 999	Posted - 2015.11.24 11:01:00 - [2] - Quote Not trying to be an ahole but no one cares. Caldari is the step child around here, I know that much. I remember CalLogi reigning. Forums moaned, CCP listened, and CalLogi were no more. I remember CalAss being dominant, rinse and repeat. Rail Rifles; rinse and repeat. CalSen; rinse and repeat. Somebody will tell you some garbage about Cal being long range fighters, which is hilariously stupid when a RR's stability is terrible and the charge up time is long. Everyone here is primarily Amarr or Gallente. Don't know about EVE but Caldari suck in Dust Saying what's on people's minds
Ahkhomi Cypher Opus Arcana 1	Posted - 2015.11.24 11:03:00 - [3] - Quote So we gonna act like assault rail rifle and bolt pistol on a Calass not strong as **** right now? Tyrant King, Opus Arcana
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 137	Posted - 2015.11.24 11:05:00 - [4] - Quote Krixus Flux wrote: Not trying to be an ahole but no one cares. Caldari is the step child around here, I know that much. I remember CalLogi reigning. Forums moaned, CCP listened, and CalLogi were no more. I remember CalAss being dominant, rinse and repeat. Rail Rifles; rinse and repeat. CalSen; rinse and repeat. Somebody will tell you some garbage about Cal being long range fighters, which is hilariously stupid when a RR's stability is terrible and the charge up time is long. Everyone here is primarily Amarr or Gallente. Don't know about EVE but Caldari suck in Dust Yes, I'm getting the same impression. The problem, as in EvE, is that CCP keeps nerfing everything that's good, and for Caldari, that's really a bad thing. A lot of what Caldari has (ships/suits and/or weapons) has been very good in the past, but they keep nerfing them because they became FOTM. So now everyone uses other stuff. Except for people like me, who only use Caldari. What are we supposed to do? I know the answer, actually, change or leave. I won't change, so I guess that means my only other option will be to leave if I can't find my way around this.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 137	Posted - 2015.11.24 11:13:00 - [5] - Quote Ahkhomi Cypher wrote: So we gonna act like assault rail rifle and bolt pistol on a Calass not strong as **** right now? No, I'm not saying that, although there would be others who disagree with you. I'm saying that as Caldari, I have no counter to something like the jumpy cloaky shotty scout. That's not a Caldari setup, so I don't use it. Others would probably have the same complaint about your Calass with ARR and BP. But most would then just train them and use them. FOTM. I hate it. There is nothing Caldari can do to fight with the same sort of abandon as a shotty scout, firing shots left right and centre, knowing that every third or fourth shot is going to hit, and I'll be toast. And the only weapon Caldari use that has anything like the stopping power of a shotgun is the bolt pistol - a handgun... Yeah, that makes sense. So I try to stay out of the way of shotty scouts and stick to Caldari fighting styles, trying to make the best of them.
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix Damage LLC 1	Posted - 2015.11.24 11:29:00 - [6] - Quote No one has a counter to the shotgun scout. If it gets the drop on you, 9/10 times you will die. Don't make this an argument that caldari have no way to stop them when the truth is it is hard for everyone to do. Wanna play eve?
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.11.24 11:44:00 - [7] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: I am Caldari, I fight in Caldari suits with Caldari weapons. But there are weapons which are OP to which Caldari weapons and suits seem to have no answer. One such weapon is the shotgun. It's not a Caldari weapon, so I don't use it, but what do I use to either counter it or emulate it? There's nothing right? Yes, there's the shotgun, if I were happy enough to use one but as I don't, that's not an option. No doubt people will think it's ridiculous that I don't just train the shotgun and use it. Well, apart from anything else, I don't like the idea of training FOMT which is basicly what the shotty jumpy scout is. I run Caldari Scout myself, and won't stoop to such ridiculous behaviour. Perhaps I should basicly accept that what I'm simply saying is this game has become ridiculous. Even in the short time I've been playing, I've seen it degenerate. Now it's just painful. But that's probably a discussion for another thread. So what is a Caldari fighter to do to counter all these ridiculous tactics? Other than leave, that is... A pure Caldari suit is perfectly capable of dealing with shotguns. Sounds like you need some advice. Firstly, the Caldari fighting style emphasises range. Therefore it is usually best to try to stay to reasonably open areas or high ground where you can best make use of your range advantage. You may need to accept that other racial gear will have an advantage in CQC combat. That's not to say Caldari can't fight at close range however, both ARRs and BPs are perfectly capable at close range combat. Tips for dealing with shotgun scouts: Keep an eye on flanks and rear. Try to stay in more open areas. Watch for the blue cloak shimmer. Stay close to teammates. Listen for the sound of a shotgun. As soon as you hear one being fired at a teammate retreat and turn around immediately (very important). In many cases you will be able to kill the scout before they escape or before they get any kills. Carry a nanite injector (Caldari tech) and revive anyone who was victim to the scout attack, effectively nullifying their attempt. Bolt pistols can often one shot scouts, or certainly two shot them. Tips for dealing with Myo-jumping: Most myo users are actually assaults. Myo scouts tend to have very low hp. Most shotgun assaults can be scanned. Have someone in your team with a scanner and use the intel to intercept the assault before they get into shotgun range. Again, Myo jumpers are much easier to hit at range, making Caldari gear great for dealing with them. Try to play as a team and defend each other against jumpers from range.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.11.24 11:47:00 - [8] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: No one has a counter to the shotgun scout. If it gets the drop on you, 9/10 times you will die. Don't make this an argument that caldari have no way to stop them when the truth is it is hard for everyone to do. If a shotgun scout kills a teammate I can usually kill the scout and revive my teammate. That's if they get the drop on someone.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 138	Posted - 2015.11.24 11:56:00 - [9] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: I am Caldari, I fight in Caldari suits with Caldari weapons. But there are weapons which are OP to which Caldari weapons and suits seem to have no answer. One such weapon is the shotgun. It's not a Caldari weapon, so I don't use it, but what do I use to either counter it or emulate it? There's nothing right? Yes, there's the shotgun, if I were happy enough to use one but as I don't, that's not an option. No doubt people will think it's ridiculous that I don't just train the shotgun and use it. Well, apart from anything else, I don't like the idea of training FOMT which is basicly what the shotty jumpy scout is. I run Caldari Scout myself, and won't stoop to such ridiculous behaviour. Perhaps I should basicly accept that what I'm simply saying is this game has become ridiculous. Even in the short time I've been playing, I've seen it degenerate. Now it's just painful. But that's probably a discussion for another thread. So what is a Caldari fighter to do to counter all these ridiculous tactics? Other than leave, that is... A pure Caldari suit is perfectly capable of dealing with shotguns. Sounds like you need some advice. Firstly, the Caldari fighting style emphasises range. Therefore it is usually best to try to stay to reasonably open areas or high ground where you can best make use of your range advantage. You may need to accept that other racial gear will have an advantage in CQC combat. That's not to say Caldari can't fight at close range however, both ARRs and BPs are perfectly capable at close range combat. Tips for dealing with shotgun scouts: Keep an eye on flanks and rear. Try to stay in more open areas. Watch for the blue cloak shimmer. Stay close to teammates. Listen for the sound of a shotgun. As soon as you hear one being fired at a teammate retreat and turn around immediately (very important). In many cases you will be able to kill the scout before they escape or before they get any kills. Carry a nanite injector (Caldari tech) and revive anyone who was victim to the scout attack, effectively nullifying their attempt. Bolt pistols can often one shot scouts, or certainly two shot them. Tips for dealing with Myo-jumping: Most myo users are actually assaults. Myo scouts tend to have very low hp. Most shotgun assaults can be scanned. Have someone in your team with a scanner and use the intel to intercept the assault before they get into shotgun range. Again, Myo jumpers are much easier to hit at range, making Caldari gear great for dealing with them. Try to play as a team and defend each other against jumpers from range. Thanks for that. Yes some good points here. I do listen to shotgun sounds nearby, and have learnt to be wary of them. Yes, more open areas are good for Caldari - I function best at range, ADS on either a RR or SR. Even the ARR sometimes, although that's not so hot with iron sights. I've just been thinking about counters to shotgun scout and yes, the BP would seem to be that counter. Very high damage for a handgun, and I've used it often on uncloaking next to some hapless person hacking an installation, or better yet, at point blank range on a sniper who doesn't even know I'm there. I run Caldari scout most of the time, so this is par for the course for me. I'm wondering if it's possible to hit a jumping scout in mid air with the BP. It should be possible to figure out the trajectory and hit them mid flight. I'll just have to practice... :) As for teams, I don't get to play in squads most of the time, and as a scout I don't get to at all, even if I start the match in a squad. I do believe that fighting as squads in this game is the most effective, but I don't get to do that much. So for me, it's a matter of trying to find counters as a solo fighter.
Stormblade Green KnightKiller's inc. 162	Posted - 2015.11.24 12:13:00 - [10] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: No one has a counter to the shotgun scout. If it gets the drop on you, 9/10 times you will die. Don't make this an argument that caldari have no way to stop them when the truth is it is hard for everyone to do. The voice of reason!!!! The day has arrived... I have surpassed the one. Now onto the alpha.

jordy mack WarRavens Imperium Eden 920	Posted - 2015.11.24 12:15:00 - [11] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: I am Caldari, I fight in Caldari suits with Caldari weapons. But there are weapons which are OP to which Caldari weapons and suits seem to have no answer. One such weapon is the shotgun. It's not a Caldari weapon, so I don't use it, but what do I use to either counter it or emulate it? There's nothing right? Yes, there's the shotgun, if I were happy enough to use one but as I don't, that's not an option. No doubt people will think it's ridiculous that I don't just train the shotgun and use it. Well, apart from anything else, I don't like the idea of training FOMT which is basicly what the shotty jumpy scout is. I run Caldari Scout myself, and won't stoop to such ridiculous behaviour. Perhaps I should basicly accept that what I'm simply saying is this game has become ridiculous. Even in the short time I've been playing, I've seen it degenerate. Now it's just painful. But that's probably a discussion for another thread. So what is a Caldari fighter to do to counter all these ridiculous tactics? Other than leave, that is... A pure Caldari suit is perfectly capable of dealing with shotguns. Sounds like you need some advice. Firstly, the Caldari fighting style emphasises range. Therefore it is usually best to try to stay to reasonably open areas or high ground where you can best make use of your range advantage. You may need to accept that other racial gear will have an advantage in CQC combat. That's not to say Caldari can't fight at close range however, both ARRs and BPs are perfectly capable at close range combat. Tips for dealing with shotgun scouts: Keep an eye on flanks and rear. Try to stay in more open areas. Watch for the blue cloak shimmer. Stay close to teammates. Listen for the sound of a shotgun. As soon as you hear one being fired at a teammate retreat and turn around immediately (very important). In many cases you will be able to kill the scout before they escape or before they get any kills. Carry a nanite injector (Caldari tech) and revive anyone who was victim to the scout attack, effectively nullifying their attempt. Bolt pistols can often one shot scouts, or certainly two shot them. Tips for dealing with Myo-jumping: Most myo users are actually assaults. Myo scouts tend to have very low hp. Most shotgun assaults can be scanned. Have someone in your team with a scanner and use the intel to intercept the assault before they get into shotgun range. Again, Myo jumpers are much easier to hit at range, making Caldari gear great for dealing with them. Try to play as a team and defend each other against jumpers from range. Thanks for that. Yes some good points here. I do listen to shotgun sounds nearby, and have learnt to be wary of them. Yes, more open areas are good for Caldari - I function best at range, ADS on either a RR or SR. Even the ARR sometimes, although that's not so hot with iron sights. I've just been thinking about counters to shotgun scout and yes, the BP would seem to be that counter. Very high damage for a handgun, and I've used it often on uncloaking next to some hapless person hacking an installation, or better yet, at point blank range on a sniper who doesn't even know I'm there. I run Caldari scout most of the time, so this is par for the course for me. I'm wondering if it's possible to hit a jumping scout in mid air with the BP. It should be possible to figure out the trajectory and hit them mid flight. I'll just have to practice... :) As for teams, I don't get to play in squads most of the time, and as a scout I don't get to at all, even if I start the match in a squad. I do believe that fighting as squads in this game is the most effective, but I don't get to do that much. So for me, it's a matter of trying to find counters as a solo fighter. the thing about shotgun scouts is they always try to ram the shotgun down your throat to kill you. but if u can spin fast enuff the scouts head will be half the size of your screen, making for a relatively easy OHK. the aim assist (or watever) and hipfiring are a great way to deal with low hp suits. hitting them mid air is very possible... and satisfying Less QQ more PewPew
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 9	Posted - 2015.11.24 12:26:00 - [12] - Quote Bolt Pistol = Caldari Long Range Shotgun Sniper Sidearm *Scouts United* Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.11.24 12:34:00 - [13] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Thanks for that. Yes some good points here. I do listen to shotgun sounds nearby, and have learnt to be wary of them. Yes, more open areas are good for Caldari - I function best at range, ADS on either a RR or SR. Even the ARR sometimes, although that's not so hot with iron sights. I've just been thinking about counters to shotgun scout and yes, the BP would seem to be that counter. Very high damage for a handgun, and I've used it often on uncloaking next to some hapless person hacking an installation, or better yet, at point blank range on a sniper who doesn't even know I'm there. I run Caldari scout most of the time, so this is par for the course for me. I'm wondering if it's possible to hit a jumping scout in mid air with the BP. It should be possible to figure out the trajectory and hit them mid flight. I'll just have to practice... :) As for teams, I don't get to play in squads most of the time, and as a scout I don't get to at all, even if I start the match in a squad. I do believe that fighting as squads in this game is the most effective, but I don't get to do that much. So for me, it's a matter of trying to find counters as a solo fighter. I see, I was thinking more about how to counter them in a non-scout suit. Scouts are a bit different. Have you considered using nova knives? Not good against shotguns, but a very effective piece of Caldari gear for CQC assassination. Very good on a stealthy scout as it's harder to hear than a shotgun and can kill enemies without starting a noisy firefight and alerting nearby enemies, especially if you can hit with double charged knives. Standard knives are bad, advanced are ok, proto are pretty good. As for dealing with shotguns, you want to make sure you get the drop on them, not the other way around. Shoot them at range, the optimal range of a shotgun is only 4m, you want to engage them from at least 20m. In a scout suit, if a shotgunner sees you and you aren't confident you can kill them I recommend running away and hiding. You always want to be the person to initiate an attack, not the other way around. I recommend fitting a dampener to reduce the chance of getting scanned either by active or passive scans. Very close range passive scans will likely still pick you up though, so beware of that.
postapo wastelander Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.11.24 12:52:00 - [14] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: I am Caldari, I fight in Caldari suits with Caldari weapons. But there are weapons which are OP to which Caldari weapons and suits seem to have no answer. One such weapon is the shotgun. It's not a Caldari weapon, so I don't use it, but what do I use to either counter it or emulate it? There's nothing right? Yes, there's the shotgun, if I were happy enough to use one but as I don't, that's not an option. No doubt people will think it's ridiculous that I don't just train the shotgun and use it. Well, apart from anything else, I don't like the idea of training FOMT which is basicly what the shotty jumpy scout is. I run Caldari Scout myself, and won't stoop to such ridiculous behaviour. Perhaps I should basicly accept that what I'm simply saying is this game has become ridiculous. Even in the short time I've been playing, I've seen it degenerate. Now it's just painful. But that's probably a discussion for another thread. So what is a Caldari fighter to do to counter all these ridiculous tactics? Other than leave, that is... This is not issue of racial weaponary. Shotgun is OP in close range and it is how it should be. By my observation some tweaking ti range can be fix for this situation. *"Dear Santa i want jackknife pick."* `One Scavenging Survivalist`
maybe deadcatz Serris Inc 1	Posted - 2015.11.24 13:54:00 - [15] - Quote I can't laugh at you for being loyal to one faction,but I can shake my head. Loyalty to one faction just gets you the strength of whatever they happen to be good at,but the fatal weakness to the counter from another faction. So your weaknesses are: Flux grenades Gallente tech Amarr tech Sneaky shotgun scouts WUB wub am assaults. Assult rail rifles My personal blend of am scout Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
DogeGode Master 217	Posted - 2015.11.24 14:01:00 - [16] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: No one has a counter to the shotgun scout. If it gets the drop on you, 9/10 times you will die, if you have no gun game or situational awareness. Don't make this an argument that caldari have no way to stop them when the truth is it is hard for every scrub to do. FTFY My basic cal assault tears up anything that tries to sneak up on it with it's ARR lol. Totally not an alt.
Sini Cetha Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 5	Posted - 2015.11.24 14:05:00 - [17] - Quote I usually just shoot them with my tank...

GM Archduke Game Masters C C P Alliance 3	Posted - 2015.11.24 14:11:00 - [18] - Quote Ahoy! Nothing good comes from willingly limiting yourself in any way, not in life and not in any games, not just DUST 514. Having a role-playing outlook on the game is cool, and being loyal to one faction to the point of only using equipment related to that faction is an interesting way of playing, but you sacrifice being versatile in order to do so. This is your choice, you could train any Skills and use any weapons, unlike some other games where race and bloodline or a character class actually limit your choices in game. GM Archduke CCP Customer Support \| EVE Online \| DUST 514

Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 12	Posted - 2015.11.24 14:16:00 - [19] - Quote I only fit racial weapons to racial dropsuits because the idea of a CR on an Amarr dropsuit causes my soul to hurt. That being said, I will skill into a Minmatar dropsuit and fit a CR. Or a Gallente dropsuit to fit an AR. That should be the way of things, imo. Become the phoenix, rise again
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.11.24 14:20:00 - [20] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: So what is a Caldari fighter to do to counter all these ridiculous tactics? Other than leave, that is... There is an obvious middle ground solution: In order to fight best for your chosen faction, use the best and right tools for every situation. Be flexible. Use the whole spectrum of the gear available. (practical hint: flaylock is very good against scouts, extremely good vs fast / heavily damped ones) KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading. Search "KEROSKIN" for list of skins for sale!

postapo wastelander Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.11.24 14:21:00 - [21] - Quote GM Archduke wrote: Ahoy! Nothing good comes from willingly limiting yourself in any way, not in life and not in any games, not just DUST 514. Having a role-playing outlook on the game is cool, and being loyal to one faction to the point of only using equipment related to that faction is an interesting way of playing, but you sacrifice being versatile in order to do so. This is your choice, you could train any Skills and use any weapons, unlike some other games where race and bloodline or a character class actually limit your choices in game. To be honest i was same in my matari costume XD Right now i burning my fingers on ASCR it is funny to use their "saint" technology against them *"Dear Santa i want jackknife pick."* `One Scavenging Survivalist`
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.11.24 14:24:00 - [22] - Quote GM Archduke wrote: Ahoy! Nothing good comes from willingly limiting yourself in any way, not in life and not in any games, not just DUST 514. Having a role-playing outlook on the game is cool, and being loyal to one faction to the point of only using equipment related to that faction is an interesting way of playing, but you sacrifice being versatile in order to do so. This is your choice, you could train any Skills and use any weapons, unlike some other games where race and bloodline or a character class actually limit your choices in game. Wow! I was just about to post the same! Using tools manufactured ONLY by corporations originated in on of the four major empires IS a role playing choice. (and not even a well reasoned one as: 1. Mercs want to win at any cost and are 'international' 2. Hardly any Eve NPC corporation is limited to it's original empire, example: Even Imperial Armaments have factories in Minmatar space) KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading. Search "KEROSKIN" for list of skins for sale!
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.11.24 14:25:00 - [23] - Quote Honestly, anyone playing exclusively with roleplaying limitations shouldn't take part in balance discussions. KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading. Search "KEROSKIN" for list of skins for sale!
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 12	Posted - 2015.11.24 14:30:00 - [24] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Honestly, anyone playing exclusively with roleplaying limitations shouldn't take part in balance discussions. I disagree. They can contribute in how their racial weapons perform when fitted to the racial frames. Let's avoid "someone is different from me and therefore wrong" arguments please. Become the phoenix, rise again
postapo wastelander Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.11.24 14:35:00 - [25] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Honestly, anyone playing exclusively with roleplaying limitations shouldn't take part in balance discussions. I do not see that like issue. Main issue is there is still some weapons better than other. And i mean honestly there sould be some global balance. Without it we will still have here FoTM for example. But right now i do not see issue here. Yes i know shotie is little stronger and i do mean CQC i mean shot from medium range what takes dont half of HP. Range hould be little more shorter from my side of view. But overal trying to make something like counter mean basicaly make new weapon. Because even breach smg have longer TTK than fully speced shotie. Overal i do not have issue with this weapon, maybe the combo with damps is in question. What about do something with that? Just question, you know. *"Dear Santa i want jackknife pick."* `One Scavenging Survivalist`
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 727	Posted - 2015.11.24 14:48:00 - [26] - Quote Lots of players seem dismissive when folks tell them "This EVE or Dust-514 game? It's weird and different from any of your other stuff---I'm serious, Dude---if you go into it with the same old ideas you have from your other games, you're not going to like EVE---don't try it that way"... It is hands-down the best advice anyone could give about these two games. I saw this cool sketch illustrating the OUTRAGEOUSLY high learning curve of an Eve game versus some other MMOs. It was a hilarious picture, that is brutal and funny at the same time... and most hilarious of all was that, it was supposedly drawn by one of CCP's own staff. The learning curve is steep on this game. If you don't hack the idea and the curve, you won't be "ruined" or anything,... but you will always be blaming some part of the game as being broken, or all wrong, or stupid... usually blaming the guns. I'm not calling any of you stupid, scrubs or noobs for feeling that way... (that name-calling jazz is just anti-social tweenie rubbish, and a key part of Eve gameplay is effective social interaction between players). But I will say you are still stuck in same mistake about EVE. You're trying to push through this game with the same "gun is the tool" idea about combat. You haven't climbed the learning curve enough yet. Combat in these two games is not about the weapons, it's about the procedure for tackling the opposition. Racial in these two games does not mean "the gun shoots from far away". It means we (it's always about WE in Eve gaming) sterilize an area from just outside the enemy's range, and we cover each other extensively as we approach. If you've ever watched and listened to an Eve-Online battle vid, you HEAR more lethal decisions and actions in the battle than you SEE the exact proto-weapon that's killing things. You realize it's that player's or team's action that just caused them to lose those three super-carriers. "Racial" isn't a weapon design---it's the agreed-to attack and defend style of the gang of players involved. The Caldari "counter" to an opponent armed with a shotgun or similar instantaneously-up-close discharge, is to cover your companion at a distance with a standard rail rifle or missile-battery, while your companion walks up to the target in a heavily-tanked suit relying on your protection. The counter is NOT a weapon in New Eden combat---it's an ACTION or co-op strategy. That seems to be one of the things that make "Caldari" so hard to be victorious in FW... it seems founded way more on overlapping cooperation from your fellow Cald players, than the other racial combat methods (but that's just open to theory and debate). And I know... you're probably saying to yourself, "crap on all that co-op, teamplay rubbish you all spout, talking like those hippies from the 60's--- and you all are just boring me with your wacked-out insistence that this game so different from others---it's got the same danged guns as the other games, an I could hack this game easy if the game wasn't so broken--no rocket science at all!" ...And that's alright to think that way. You're thinking is wrong, but it's okay, Dust is cool enough to allow you to play it your way. You're just going to have these episodes of excruciating frustration as a result, that's all. Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne... No story can have life without writers and publishers.
maybe deadcatz Serris Inc 1	Posted - 2015.11.24 15:02:00 - [27] - Quote GM Archduke wrote: Ahoy! Nothing good comes from willingly limiting yourself in any way, not in life and not in any games, not just DUST 514. Having a role-playing outlook on the game is cool, and being loyal to one faction to the point of only using equipment related to that faction is an interesting way of playing, but you sacrifice being versatile in order to do so. This is your choice, you could train any Skills and use any weapons, unlike some other games where race and bloodline or a character class actually limit your choices in game. Even he said it. Well he said it with that magic red tag of absolute authority but he said it. Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
Alcina Nektaria KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 440	Posted - 2015.11.24 15:13:00 - [28] - Quote In all honesty, I don't see the problem staying Faction SUIT loyal, as I myself only use Gallente suits. However, you should probably skill into multi-faction technology (mods/equipment) because it will give you a better chance to counter any situation you come across. Then again, unless you have a good tactical mind to run Caldari at close/mid/long range I'd suggest maybe looking into at least one other faction suit. Not that I'm ragging on Caldari suits, however in CQC there is a stupid high chance that you will just die unless you have a lot of cover to pop behind. I can get away with only running Gallente suits in ever situation save for tiptoeing through the tulips in an open field (if there are snipers or RR users). But even with the suits I use AR on my Assault, Shotty on Scout (sometimes TacAR), PLC and Burst on Commando (that's as far as I stick to racial guns ( I do it for the bonus' ). My Logi uses ACR and ARR and my Sentinel ofc uses an HMG. D4GG3R is my mom. I have reason to suspect Archduke is a Sassy Pirate.
DozersMouse XIII Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 1	Posted - 2015.11.24 15:17:00 - [29] - Quote Try using a scanner on your suits addicted to the Kubo's GMK-16 banana cannon
Mortedeamor The Black Masquerade 2	Posted - 2015.11.24 15:39:00 - [30] - Quote Ahkhomi Cypher wrote: So we gonna act like assault rail rifle and bolt pistol on a Calass not strong as ** right now? i disagree i feel rather that the cal suits hard counter amar suits have fallen off and made them seem op when in reality they are not. in fact amar still outshine caldari when it comes to ranged performance due to the rr kick ccp over nerfed the rr..not the arr...the rr its cqc strength is what needed a nerf kinda like how the scr's cqc strength needed a nerf... and with both ccp has over done it to say the least...lr out shines rr in every way...but it not really op..because its prime weakness is cqc...thats how the rr should be but ccp ** it up just like they **** up the scr i never was a big scr use or ascr user...thus i haven't noticed the caldari anything becoming op or the minmatar for that matter ... now bar galass...thats a whole nother matter but i digress pc master race PORT IT CCP

Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.11.24 15:48:00 - [31] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: Ahkhomi Cypher wrote: So we gonna act like assault rail rifle and bolt pistol on a Calass not strong as ** right now? i disagree i feel rather that the cal suits hard counter amar suits have fallen off and made them seem op when in reality they are not. in fact amar still outshine caldari when it comes to ranged performance due to the rr kick ccp over nerfed the rr..not the arr...the rr its cqc strength is what needed a nerf kinda like how the scr's cqc strength needed a nerf... and with both ccp has over done it to say the least...lr out shines rr in every way...but it not really op..because its prime weakness is cqc...thats how the rr should be but ccp ** it up just like they **** up the scr i never was a big scr use or ascr user...thus i haven't noticed the caldari anything becoming op or the minmatar for that matter ... now bar galass...thats a whole nother matter but i digress The RR has almost no kick in ads. It was it's hip fire kick that was nerfed quite a long time ago. I find the laser and RR reasonably balanced at range. Laser is more powerful, but must be preheated and spends a lot of time reloading. I'd rather have a RR in close combat than a laser rifle. RRs are better than ScRs at range due to the ScRs kick and overheat. ScRs are good at close range however.
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix Damage LLC 1	Posted - 2015.11.24 15:49:00 - [32] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: Ahkhomi Cypher wrote: So we gonna act like assault rail rifle and bolt pistol on a Calass not strong as ** right now? i disagree i feel rather that the cal suits hard counter amar suits have fallen off and made them seem op when in reality they are not. in fact amar still outshine caldari when it comes to ranged performance due to the rr kick ccp over nerfed the rr..not the arr...the rr its cqc strength is what needed a nerf kinda like how the scr's cqc strength needed a nerf... and with both ccp has over done it to say the least...lr out shines rr in every way...but it not really op..because its prime weakness is cqc...thats how the rr should be but ccp ** it up just like they **** up the scr i never was a big scr use or ascr user...thus i haven't noticed the caldari anything becoming op or the minmatar for that matter ... now bar galass...thats a whole nother matter but i digress How is kick a problem when you ads, and it gets reduced by 25%? Also don't compare a laser rifle to a RR, they operate completely different and have different ranges. Wanna play eve?
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 1	Posted - 2015.11.24 15:52:00 - [33] - Quote A caldari shotgun would be amazing though. Js Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix Damage LLC 1	Posted - 2015.11.24 15:54:00 - [34] - Quote Devadander wrote: A caldari shotgun would be amazing though. Js I'd take a charge rail shotgun, similar to the charge Sniper but a shotgun Wanna play eve?
DEATH THE KlD Imperfect - Bastards 886	Posted - 2015.11.24 16:07:00 - [35] - Quote Ahkhomi Cypher wrote: So we gonna act like assault rail rifle and bolt pistol on a Calass not strong as **** right now? They always have been but the community was to busy chasing fotm to notice CEO of Imperfect Bastards and NF -Heimdallr69 Steam - Heimpai
Tebu Gan Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.11.24 16:28:00 - [36] - Quote GM Archduke wrote: Ahoy! Nothing good comes from willingly limiting yourself in any way, not in life and not in any games, not just DUST 514. Having a role-playing outlook on the game is cool, and being loyal to one faction to the point of only using equipment related to that faction is an interesting way of playing, but you sacrifice being versatile in order to do so. This is your choice, you could train any Skills and use any weapons, unlike some other games where race and bloodline or a character class actually limit your choices in game. You know, Rattati made posts much like these before he got his own blue tag...
Garcon lyfe G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 114	Posted - 2015.11.24 16:43:00 - [37] - Quote Krixus Flux wrote: Not trying to be an ahole but no one cares. Caldari is the step child around here, I know that much. I remember CalLogi reigning. Forums moaned, CCP listened, and CalLogi were no more. I remember CalAss being dominant, rinse and repeat. Rail Rifles; rinse and repeat. CalSen; rinse and repeat. Somebody will tell you some garbage about Cal being long range fighters, which is hilariously stupid when a RR's stability is terrible and the charge up time is long. Everyone here is primarily Amarr or Gallente. Don't know about EVE but Caldari suck in Dust Yea got to ruin your 999 likes! Im a winner! GTC (Galactic Trade Center) The last trading site you will need! http://www.dust514gtc.enjin.com
postapo wastelander Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.11.24 16:51:00 - [38] - Quote Devadander wrote: A caldari shotgun would be amazing though. Js Something what shooting magnetized slugs XD Yup sadly CCP cannot implement any of racial models :( One minutes for MIA technology :-¦( Vehicles 1.)weapons 2.)weapons 1.)vehicles 2.)vehicles Jeez how i want these in game too :(( Three honorary shots to air "Dear Santa i want jackknife pick."* `One Scavenging Survivalist`
Garcon lyfe G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 114	Posted - 2015.11.24 16:55:00 - [39] - Quote postapo wastelander wrote: Devadander wrote: A caldari shotgun would be amazing though. Js Something what shooting magnetized slugs XD Yup sadly CCP cannot implement any of racial models :( One minutes for MIA technology :-¦( Vehicles 1.)weapons 2.)weapons 1.)vehicles 2.)vehicles Jeez how i want these in game too :(( *Three honorary shots to air Why do you do this! What dust should have been.....im going to go QQ on the forums about this now GTC (Galactic Trade Center) The last trading site you will need! http://www.dust514gtc.enjin.com
postapo wastelander Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.11.24 16:59:00 - [40] - Quote Garcon lyfe wrote: postapo wastelander wrote: Devadander wrote: A caldari shotgun would be amazing though. Js Something what shooting magnetized slugs XD Yup sadly CCP cannot implement any of racial models :( One minutes for MIA technology :-¦( Vehicles 1.)weapons 2.)weapons 1.)vehicles 2.)vehicles Jeez how i want these in game too :(( Three honorary shots to air Why do you do this! What dust should have been.....im going to go QQ on the forums about this now Why? Because i still have in mind how i was exited about new models and how im sad because they do not make it to our release. Yup im actually pretty sad, but maybe Ratatamans idea about recoloring will be small bandage. "Dear Santa i want jackknife pick."* `One Scavenging Survivalist`

Mortedeamor The Black Masquerade 2	Posted - 2015.11.24 17:17:00 - [41] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: Ahkhomi Cypher wrote: So we gonna act like assault rail rifle and bolt pistol on a Calass not strong as ** right now? i disagree i feel rather that the cal suits hard counter amar suits have fallen off and made them seem op when in reality they are not. in fact amar still outshine caldari when it comes to ranged performance due to the rr kick ccp over nerfed the rr..not the arr...the rr its cqc strength is what needed a nerf kinda like how the scr's cqc strength needed a nerf... and with both ccp has over done it to say the least...lr out shines rr in every way...but it not really op..because its prime weakness is cqc...thats how the rr should be but ccp ** it up just like they **** up the scr i never was a big scr use or ascr user...thus i haven't noticed the caldari anything becoming op or the minmatar for that matter ... now bar galass...thats a whole nother matter but i digress The RR has almost no kick in ads. It was it's hip fire kick that was nerfed quite a long time ago. I find the laser and RR reasonably balanced at range. Laser is more powerful, but must be preheated and spends a lot of time reloading. I'd rather have a RR in close combat than a laser rifle. RRs are better than ScRs at range due to the ScRs kick and overheat. ScRs are good at close range however. it does not have to be preheated,,,,its far stronger than rr ONE UNIVERSE ONE WAR ONE MOTHER kitten GOD kitten SYSTEM PORTDUST514
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.11.24 17:17:00 - [42] - Quote postapo wastelander wrote: Devadander wrote: A caldari shotgun would be amazing though. Js Something what shooting magnetized slugs XD Yup sadly CCP cannot implement any of racial models :( One minutes for MIA technology :-¦( Vehicles 1.)weapons 2.)weapons 1.)vehicles 2.)vehicles Jeez how i want these in game too :(( *Three honorary shots to air As awesome as these are, I kind of wish we only had the weapons and suits from beta, and CCP used the extra RAM to make the game work better.
Mortedeamor The Black Masquerade 2	Posted - 2015.11.24 17:18:00 - [43] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: Ahkhomi Cypher wrote: So we gonna act like assault rail rifle and bolt pistol on a Calass not strong as ** right now? i disagree i feel rather that the cal suits hard counter amar suits have fallen off and made them seem op when in reality they are not. in fact amar still outshine caldari when it comes to ranged performance due to the rr kick ccp over nerfed the rr..not the arr...the rr its cqc strength is what needed a nerf kinda like how the scr's cqc strength needed a nerf... and with both ccp has over done it to say the least...lr out shines rr in every way...but it not really op..because its prime weakness is cqc...thats how the rr should be but ccp ** it up just like they ** up the scr i never was a big scr use or ascr user...thus i haven't noticed the caldari anything becoming op or the minmatar for that matter ... now bar galass...thats a whole nother matter but i digress How is kick a problem when you ads, and it gets reduced by 25%? Also don't compare a laser rifle to a RR, they operate completely different and have different ranges. rr seem completely ****** to lr...most rr users fail to even challenge me and then when i try it out i see why its so bad at range lol ONE UNIVERSE ONE WAR ONE MOTHER kitten GOD kitten SYSTEM PORTDUST514
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.11.24 17:27:00 - [44] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: it does not have to be preheated,,,,its far stronger than rr Laser rifle base dps = 212.5 Rail rifle base dps = 361.5 I'm not saying the laser is bad, but both the rail rifle and the laser rifle are excellent ranged weapons.
Garcon lyfe G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 115	Posted - 2015.11.24 17:29:00 - [45] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: it does not have to be preheated,,,,its far stronger than rr Laser rifle base dps = 212.5 Rail rifle base dps = 361.5 I'm not saying the laser is bad, but both the rail rifle and the laser rifle are excellent ranged weapons. Lr can kill multiple targets to ^^ But RR is awesome Praise them both! GTC (Galactic Trade Center) The last trading site you will need! http://www.dust514gtc.enjin.com
Summa Militum Abstract Requiem 1	Posted - 2015.11.24 17:48:00 - [46] - Quote Use Precision Enhancer Modules and pay close attention to your tacnet.
Her Nibs G0DS AM0NG MEN 214	Posted - 2015.11.24 18:08:00 - [47] - Quote A mass driver makes scouts fly really good. Fear can only leads to curiosity
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 1	Posted - 2015.11.24 18:12:00 - [48] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Devadander wrote: A caldari shotgun would be amazing though. Js I'd take a charge rail shotgun, similar to the charge Sniper but a shotgun I had thought about a long spool with a hard hit. But yours is better xD Caldari shotgun would have to perform like a slug shooter though. Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Lightning35 Delta514 The Warlords Legion 2	Posted - 2015.11.24 18:16:00 - [49] - Quote GM Archduke wrote: Ahoy! Nothing good comes from willingly limiting yourself in any way, not in life and not in any games, not just DUST 514. Having a role-playing outlook on the game is cool, and being loyal to one faction to the point of only using equipment related to that faction is an interesting way of playing, but you sacrifice being versatile in order to do so. This is your choice, you could train any Skills and use any weapons, unlike some other games where race and bloodline or a character class actually limit your choices in game. he3s right. take a look at me. im only skilled into gallente stuff. while you have problems with shotguns, i have problems wit rails at range outside of my ar range. open maps are not good for me, the same way closed maps arent good for you. its all racially balanced tbh to a certain point. CEO of T-W-L Gallente Loyalist GALLENTE!!! FREEDOM!!! QUAFE!!!
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 730	Posted - 2015.11.24 18:21:00 - [50] - Quote LOL!! My point has been proven with all this posting after mine. ....Still stuck on "your gun" "Gun-DPS" "Gun-Derp" as the solution. MUST be the solution...." ....Oh, well.... Happy Thanksgiving. Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne... No story can have life without writers and publishers.

Devadander Woodgrain Atari 1	Posted - 2015.11.24 18:27:00 - [51] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: GM Archduke wrote: Ahoy! Nothing good comes from willingly limiting yourself in any way, not in life and not in any games, not just DUST 514. Having a role-playing outlook on the game is cool, and being loyal to one faction to the point of only using equipment related to that faction is an interesting way of playing, but you sacrifice being versatile in order to do so. This is your choice, you could train any Skills and use any weapons, unlike some other games where race and bloodline or a character class actually limit your choices in game. he3s right. take a look at me. im only skilled into gallente stuff. while you have problems with shotguns, i have problems wit rails at range outside of my ar range. open maps are not good for me, the same way closed maps arent good for you. its all racially balanced tbh to a certain point. Ive been caldari since caldari caldaried.... Once i broke 60m sp though, i started to dabble in dopples. I could infight in a caldari.. Or I could bust out the galass. I can run fast in a caldari.. A minass runs faster. I try to stand and deliver in my caldari.. But amass actually delivers like Jimmy Johns. Just like I could fail trying with all those suits to kill people at 70+ meters (barring the lazor and sniper of course) A mechanic will tell you: use the right tool for the right job. Start with amarr, as an rp fan it was easy due to alliance. Then I got into the whole 'using enemy tech against the maker' kick. holds out a plate of cookies Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Vicious Minotaur 3	Posted - 2015.11.24 18:44:00 - [52] - Quote The real problem[s] with racial weapons are: 1) Lack of racial variants. No Assault Plasma Cannon. No Tactical Rail Rifle. No Assault Bolt Pistol... 2) Lack of racial weapon types. Were the Amarr AV weapon at? Or the Minmatar Sniper? Oh, that's right, NOWHERE! 3) Lack of consistency. Why the Assault HMG functions like a Breach weapon? 4) Lack of balance. Why the Assault Forge Gun render near-obsolete the other two Forge Gun variants? Minotaur Master Race Violently penetrating you since ca 84 BCE. ( -í° -£-û -í°)
Cesar Geronimo DUST University Ivy League 167	Posted - 2015.11.24 19:45:00 - [53] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: I am Caldari, I fight in Caldari suits with Caldari weapons. But there are weapons which are OP to which Caldari weapons and suits seem to have no answer. One such weapon is the shotgun. It's not a Caldari weapon, so I don't use it, but what do I use to either counter it or emulate it? There's nothing right? Yes, there's the shotgun, if I were happy enough to use one but as I don't, that's not an option. No doubt people will think it's ridiculous that I don't just train the shotgun and use it. Well, apart from anything else, I don't like the idea of training FOMT which is basicly what the shotty jumpy scout is. I run Caldari Scout myself, and won't stoop to such ridiculous behaviour. Perhaps I should basicly accept that what I'm simply saying is this game has become ridiculous. Even in the short time I've been playing, I've seen it degenerate. Now it's just painful. But that's probably a discussion for another thread. So what is a Caldari fighter to do to counter all these ridiculous tactics? Other than leave, that is... Even though you're Caldari scum I'll give you eight points out of a possible ten for the trolling
DeathwindRising Th3.Immortals 1	Posted - 2015.11.24 20:27:00 - [54] - Quote Stormblade Green wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: No one has a counter to the shotgun scout. If it gets the drop on you, 9/10 times you will die. Don't make this an argument that caldari have no way to stop them when the truth is it is hard for everyone to do. The voice of reason!!!! theres a counter. open terrain. scouts hate open terrain with limited cover. you can spot them cloaked fairly easily. use a LAV for mobile cover and you good to go as long as you keep checking your surroundings. scouts WILL attempt to come after you
DeathwindRising Th3.Immortals 1	Posted - 2015.11.24 20:29:00 - [55] - Quote can we get the rest of the weapon variants? i want a tactical rail rifle
Radiant Pancake3 2	Posted - 2015.11.24 20:35:00 - [56] - Quote Sini Cetha wrote: I usually just shoot them with my tank... Well aren't you just dandy? "Pancake is a corp hopping forum troll, that's his excuse." - bane sieg Min Loyalist
korrah silain True Illuminate 173	Posted - 2015.11.24 22:16:00 - [57] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: I am Caldari, I fight in Caldari suits with Caldari weapons. But there are weapons which are OP to which Caldari weapons and suits seem to have no answer. One such weapon is the shotgun. It's not a Caldari weapon, so I don't use it, but what do I use to either counter it or emulate it? There's nothing right? Yes, there's the shotgun, if I were happy enough to use one but as I don't, that's not an option. No doubt people will think it's ridiculous that I don't just train the shotgun and use it. Well, apart from anything else, I don't like the idea of training FOMT which is basicly what the shotty jumpy scout is. I run Caldari Scout myself, and won't stoop to such ridiculous behaviour. Perhaps I should basicly accept that what I'm simply saying is this game has become ridiculous. Even in the short time I've been playing, I've seen it degenerate. Now it's just painful. But that's probably a discussion for another thread. So what is a Caldari fighter to do to counter all these ridiculous tactics? Other than leave, that is... The problem here is that you are using scouts inappropproblem. due to a scouts low armor, and ewar advantages, and speed it lends itself to a quick strike style of play. This only really works if you chose a weapon with high alpha to allow for decisive first strikes. Opening up with any rifle simply doesn't work well within the paradigm because doing so gives the opponent enough time to put you down in two shots. Unfortunately the only weapons with such capabilities are the shotgun, and nova knives. In other words this isn't a racial weapon problem, its a problem with you trying to run scouts with assault combat doctrine. If you want to counter shotgunners invest in ewar, and an arr on a logi, or assault. you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
Union118 TH3 STRUGGL3 989	Posted - 2015.11.24 22:20:00 - [58] - Quote GM Archduke wrote: Ahoy! Nothing good comes from willingly limiting yourself in any way, not in life and not in any games, not just DUST 514. Having a role-playing outlook on the game is cool, and being loyal to one faction to the point of only using equipment related to that faction is an interesting way of playing, but you sacrifice being versatile in order to do so. This is your choice, you could train any Skills and use any weapons, unlike some other games where race and bloodline or a character class actually limit your choices in game. Counseling sessions with Duke. Starter Fit Suits are OP :-)
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2015.11.24 22:28:00 - [59] - Quote GM Archduke wrote: Nothing good comes from willingly limiting yourself in any way, not in life and not in any games, not just DUST 514. Monogamy's for the birds. Dropsuit Usage Rates
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2015.11.24 22:29:00 - [60] - Quote korrah silain wrote: [scouts] and ewar advantages lol. ewar scouts are OP. Dropsuit Usage Rates

korrah silain True Illuminate 173	Posted - 2015.11.24 22:43:00 - [61] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: korrah silain wrote: [scouts] and ewar advantages lol. ewar scouts are OP. If they play smart. Everything has a counter... you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 13	Posted - 2015.11.24 22:56:00 - [62] - Quote What is this? 1.8 where Scouts with 1000 HP could shoot from cloak, which had such a high profile reduction they could hide from all scans without hardly any actual dampening mods? Shotgun scouts aren't a problem any longer. And for the record, I have been a knifer since 1.4, so Shotgun Scouts have been my nemesis ever since. Here are the counters: HP ---- Even Pro Shotguns can't OHK high HP enemies. Frankly, if a Scout gets the drop on you, you should in all likelyhood be dead. However, if you stack that HP, they can sacrifice their whole fitting for stealth and speed, get the drop, and if you tank that shot, you now are in position to counter. Myos ----- After tanking that shot, you can jump and turn and shoot. It is not terribly difficult. Practically any weapon (other than knives) ----- If they snuck up on you, then they probably were dampened (and frankly by this point, if you don't expect the occasional dampened scout, particularly playing one yourself, and aren't checking your flanks and back on occasion, you are doing something wrong), and as a result, have sacrificed HP. They are fragile. You can kill them in a fraction of a second. Sounds like a reasonable trade off. Scanners ---- Force them to dampen. Again, you are making them easier to kill, or easier to spot. Frankly, as a scout that has been playing for almost 3 years now (though much of the past several months or more have been inactive), Shotgun Scouts are much MUCH less of a problem. Hell, even on my knifing fits, I threw on Flaylocks, and they helped tremendously. Its the Assaults you need to worry about. They can dampen enough to get under most radar, tank more shots with higher HP, and you, as a scout, are at an extreme disadvantage. Because without a high Alpha weapon, you are going to be at a disadvantage regardless of whether or not you get the drop. At that point, you are playing on the periphery, with extreme hit and run tactics, and just trying to do damage, and getting out before you can be quickly killed. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
2Berries Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 1	Posted - 2015.11.24 23:17:00 - [63] - Quote If your a cal scout worrying about shotgun scouts, more than likely gal, all you really need is a good scanner. You won't scan them directly but you'll get a margin of error, that should spur your situational awarness enough to look around and watch your back. Cal scouts work best from the margins moving in. If your getting hit from behind you may be moving too close. Only go for hacks when it is painfully obvious it's clear or theres enough blueberries around that you can fool yourself into thinking your safe. Evening Boys, Hows the water?
Russel Mendoza Klandatu 329	Posted - 2015.11.24 23:31:00 - [64] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: I am Caldari, I fight in Caldari suits with Caldari weapons. But there are weapons which are OP to which Caldari weapons and suits seem to have no answer. One such weapon is the shotgun. It's not a Caldari weapon, so I don't use it, but what do I use to either counter it or emulate it? There's nothing right? Yes, there's the shotgun, if I were happy enough to use one but as I don't, that's not an option. No doubt people will think it's ridiculous that I don't just train the shotgun and use it. Well, apart from anything else, I don't like the idea of training FOMT which is basicly what the shotty jumpy scout is. I run Caldari Scout myself, and won't stoop to such ridiculous behaviour. Perhaps I should basicly accept that what I'm simply saying is this game has become ridiculous. Even in the short time I've been playing, I've seen it degenerate. Now it's just painful. But that's probably a discussion for another thread. So what is a Caldari fighter to do to counter all these ridiculous tactics? Other than leave, that is... Ccp is simply favoring the gallente scums. Ar is op. Shotty is op. And they dont get nerfed. So yeah. Fu ck the ccp gallente alliance. For the state! Ooorah! I'm the biggest Dustard in the universe!!! Summoning technique "Gorgon no jutsu" Vehicle request accepted.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.11.24 23:41:00 - [65] - Quote I think a rail rifle scout could work. Use the cloak along with low profile and mobility to perform a wide flank. Hit the enemy in the back from range. If they shoot back, move. You will have distracted them, which is very helpful for your team pushing from the front. Cloak up and escape when they come for you. Carry knives as a sidearm for stealth CQC. I've done this with a Gal scout on the bridge map in domination. Was pretty effective.
P14GU3 WarRavens 1	Posted - 2015.11.24 23:50:00 - [66] - Quote Russel Mendoza wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: I am Caldari, I fight in Caldari suits with Caldari weapons. But there are weapons which are OP to which Caldari weapons and suits seem to have no answer. One such weapon is the shotgun. It's not a Caldari weapon, so I don't use it, but what do I use to either counter it or emulate it? There's nothing right? Yes, there's the shotgun, if I were happy enough to use one but as I don't, that's not an option. No doubt people will think it's ridiculous that I don't just train the shotgun and use it. Well, apart from anything else, I don't like the idea of training FOMT which is basicly what the shotty jumpy scout is. I run Caldari Scout myself, and won't stoop to such ridiculous behaviour. Perhaps I should basicly accept that what I'm simply saying is this game has become ridiculous. Even in the short time I've been playing, I've seen it degenerate. Now it's just painful. But that's probably a discussion for another thread. So what is a Caldari fighter to do to counter all these ridiculous tactics? Other than leave, that is... Ccp is simply favoring the gallente scums. Ar is op. Shotty is op. And they dont get nerfed. So yeah. Fu ck the ccp gallente alliance. For the state! Ooorah! ROFL. The ar got nerfed with uprising and has been garbage since, until recently, and is still garbage on anything but the galass. The shotty has been nerfed down to the point that it pretty much can't be nerfed anymore without becoming a fool's weapon. Remember, gallente light/assault tech is some of the oldest in the game, and probably has had more nerf/buff cycles than any other gear in the game. Truth is, Caldari have always been the most OP, in eve and dust. The other races are just now catching up, and the caldari are screaming OP, when the other races have dealt with it for years. Congrats caldari, you now have a counter like the rest of us. 'Sault AK.0 - Logi AK.0 - 'Sault GK.0 - Logi GK.0 - Scout GK.0 - 'Mando MK.0 - Sentinal MK.0
Stormblade Green KnightKiller's inc. 162	Posted - 2015.11.24 23:58:00 - [67] - Quote This is my personal experience with rails....Distance equals kills.... as for assault rifles....the buff only help make my life even easier.... learn your weapons and stats go out the window.... Which is why we have FOTM people spam and CCP listens. It gets annoying real fast when decent weapons, suits, etc. get nerfed and the wrong weapons buffed. The day has arrived... I have surpassed the one. Now onto the alpha.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.11.25 00:17:00 - [68] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Honestly, anyone playing exclusively with roleplaying limitations shouldn't take part in balance discussions. I disagree. They can contribute in how their racial weapons perform when fitted to the racial frames. Let's avoid "someone is different from me and therefore wrong" arguments please. I stand behind my strong and admittedly sentiment-awakening statement. At best those people are empty noise. At worst they are distorting the grand community feedback, calling for buffs for things that do not need it. An example following the exact same logic, yes an unlikely one but an extreme one for example's sake: "I claim that Caldari Heavies need a huge +300% EHP buff because they are so weak in point defence and cannot kill masses and suck solo. (I fail to mention in my post I use only forge guns because of faction role play reasons)." Now while cal sent might need some love and FG is a great AI-weapon, having people make those claims for distorted reasons would in turn distort the player feedback. KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading. Search "KEROSKIN" for list of skins for sale!
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.11.25 00:20:00 - [69] - Quote postapo wastelander wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Honestly, anyone playing exclusively with roleplaying limitations shouldn't take part in balance discussions. I do not see that like issue. Main issue is there is still some weapons better than other. And i mean honestly there sould be some global balance. Without it we will still have here FoTM for example. But right now i do not see issue here. . . . For the devs, it is hard enough to reach a grand game wide balance. Adding subgame meta balance fully into consideration, would complicate the big balance tremendously. KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading. Search "KEROSKIN" for list of skins for sale!
Stormblade Green KnightKiller's inc. 162	Posted - 2015.11.25 00:25:00 - [70] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Honestly, anyone playing exclusively with roleplaying limitations shouldn't take part in balance discussions. I disagree. They can contribute in how their racial weapons perform when fitted to the racial frames. Let's avoid "someone is different from me and therefore wrong" arguments please. I stand behind my strong and admittedly sentiment-awakening statement. At best those people are empty noise. At worst they are distorting the grand community feedback, calling for buffs for things that do not need it. An example following the exact same logic, yes an unlikely one but an extreme one for example's sake: "I claim that Caldari Heavies need a huge +300% EHP buff because they are so weak in point defence and cannot kill masses and suck solo. (I fail to mention in my post I use only forge guns because of faction role play reasons)." Now while cal sent might need some love and FG is a great AI-weapon, having people make those claims for distorted reasons would in turn distort the player feedback. Probably not my place to say but.... I'd say scrubs shouldn't have a say in anything..... a can take A fg and clear points off as well as keep any unlucky red off it... So racial fitting can be really powerful if you can actually use the style correctly. The day has arrived... I have surpassed the one. Now onto the alpha.

Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 144	Posted - 2015.11.25 09:30:00 - [71] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Thanks for that. Yes some good points here. I do listen to shotgun sounds nearby, and have learnt to be wary of them. Yes, more open areas are good for Caldari - I function best at range, ADS on either a RR or SR. Even the ARR sometimes, although that's not so hot with iron sights. I've just been thinking about counters to shotgun scout and yes, the BP would seem to be that counter. Very high damage for a handgun, and I've used it often on uncloaking next to some hapless person hacking an installation, or better yet, at point blank range on a sniper who doesn't even know I'm there. I run Caldari scout most of the time, so this is par for the course for me. I'm wondering if it's possible to hit a jumping scout in mid air with the BP. It should be possible to figure out the trajectory and hit them mid flight. I'll just have to practice... :) As for teams, I don't get to play in squads most of the time, and as a scout I don't get to at all, even if I start the match in a squad. I do believe that fighting as squads in this game is the most effective, but I don't get to do that much. So for me, it's a matter of trying to find counters as a solo fighter. I see, I was thinking more about how to counter them in a non-scout suit. Scouts are a bit different. Have you considered using nova knives? Not good against shotguns, but a very effective piece of Caldari gear for CQC assassination. Very good on a stealthy scout as it's harder to hear than a shotgun and can kill enemies without starting a noisy firefight and alerting nearby enemies, especially if you can hit with double charged knives. Standard knives are bad, advanced are ok, proto are pretty good. As for dealing with shotguns, you want to make sure you get the drop on them, not the other way around. Shoot them at range, the optimal range of a shotgun is only 4m, you want to engage them from at least 20m. In a scout suit, if a shotgunner sees you and you aren't confident you can kill them I recommend running away and hiding. You always want to be the person to initiate an attack, not the other way around. I recommend fitting a dampener to reduce the chance of getting scanned either by active or passive scans. Very close range passive scans will likely still pick you up though, so beware of that. Where did you get that Nova Knives are Caldari??? I've never heard of that, and there are no Caldari specific suits which use them. There's the Recon - CA suit, of course, but it's the same as everyone else's - shotgun and nova knives. Caldari gear is fundamentally railguns and missiles, hence rail rifles and swarm launchers. I have no issue with attacking another scout. I have no problem with using either a rail rifle or a bolt pistol or even a magsec, although they're not too good for surprise attacks. Again, this isn't about getting the drop on shotguns, this is about defending against them, and there's apparently no way to do that. I find that very strange, because CCP never releases anything in EvE without some sort of counter. But there apparently is no counter to a shotgun. Probably the only real counter is seeing them coming in the first place, on the minimap, using complex precision enhancers. But there are only 4 high slots on a Caldari Scout suit, and using them all for precision enhancers would seem a little bit overkill. I run away a lot! There are plenty of occasions where I find myself for instance, hacking an installation under the noses of the enemy, and I can see one of them nearby, and then the installation icon turns blue and you can almost hear them thinking where's that scout? I don't run immediately. Sometimes I have to wait for my cloak to cycle, and then I hit it and run, but sometimes I have no choice and just have to hightail it out of there. Quite a few times today, actually. I don't run shield extenders on my fast scout suit because I need all the high slots for myofibs and precision enhancers. In fact, that suit is paper thin, fast but practically no damage protection. There are only two low slots on a Caldari Scout suit. I use both of them for damps on my stealthy suit. I still get scanned on occasion but much less than in my fast suit. Thanks for the tips. They've helped either by giving me some new ideas or validating what I'm already doing.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 144	Posted - 2015.11.25 09:41:00 - [72] - Quote postapo wastelander wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: I am Caldari, I fight in Caldari suits with Caldari weapons. But there are weapons which are OP to which Caldari weapons and suits seem to have no answer. One such weapon is the shotgun. It's not a Caldari weapon, so I don't use it, but what do I use to either counter it or emulate it? There's nothing right? Yes, there's the shotgun, if I were happy enough to use one but as I don't, that's not an option. No doubt people will think it's ridiculous that I don't just train the shotgun and use it. Well, apart from anything else, I don't like the idea of training FOMT which is basicly what the shotty jumpy scout is. I run Caldari Scout myself, and won't stoop to such ridiculous behaviour. Perhaps I should basicly accept that what I'm simply saying is this game has become ridiculous. Even in the short time I've been playing, I've seen it degenerate. Now it's just painful. But that's probably a discussion for another thread. So what is a Caldari fighter to do to counter all these ridiculous tactics? Other than leave, that is... This is not issue of racial weaponary. Shotgun is OP in close range and it is how it should be. By my observation some tweaking ti range can be fix for this situation. The point I'm making is, there is no similar Caldari weapon. My guess is CCP thinks if you want to use a weapon that's as OP as the shotgun, use the shotgun. I train exclusively Caldari weaponry because that's the way to get uber good at any given weapon class. If I take time out to train shotguns, I will have to delay being uber good at RR and ARR. I'm not saying I won't train it eventually, just not yet. But back to my point, there's no light weapon based on railgun technology that's as OP as the shotgun. There's a sidearm that is - the bolt pistol is a railgun, and it's definitely OP for a handgun. But there's no light Caldari weapon that is. The forge gun, of course, is OP, but you can't use those on a Scout Suit... :)
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 144	Posted - 2015.11.25 10:01:00 - [73] - Quote GM Archduke wrote: Ahoy! Nothing good comes from willingly limiting yourself in any way, not in life and not in any games, not just DUST 514. Having a role-playing outlook on the game is cool, and being loyal to one faction to the point of only using equipment related to that faction is an interesting way of playing, but you sacrifice being versatile in order to do so. This is your choice, you could train any Skills and use any weapons, unlike some other games where race and bloodline or a character class actually limit your choices in game. Sorry, Archduke. I disagree. In EvE I am a Caldari only pilot and here in Dust I'm a Caldari only merc. It's not necessarily a loyalty thing. It's a choice to focus my training on only Caldari suits and weapons (ships and weapons in EvE). My EvE main is Nalianna. I'm sure you can get access to see how uber-Caldari she is. Eventually I might train something other than Caldari, but that day is not yet. It's also not reasonable to think that Caldari would not have produced a Caldari based counter to every weapon that the other races have developed. Are you telling me that Kaalakiota or Ishukone can't do that? Well, I note that Ishukone does in fact produce its own version of virtually every other race's weapons. But that's just typically Japanese, as far as I'm concerned. Ishukone simply copies everything. This is not a sacrifice. I'm simply not playing the game the way you think I should. I fundamentally disagree with your tenets. Yes, I have to put up with "self-imposed" difficulties, but the long term benefit is that I will have superior Caldari skills to everyone else but the longliner vets. I figure they only have a few years drop on me, and there are four basic factions in Dust, so I should be able to get to lvl 5 of everything Caldari in a quarter of the time of people who are training everything, or FOTM. What I'm basicly saying, Archduke is that I believe the approach you are advocating is wrong. Yes, that's a choice, but it most certainly is not a sacrifice. For the record where you state that being able to train anything as opposed to other games which don't allow you to, I believe this is a singular failure of Dust, in that you have not made the skills racially dependent enough. Yes, you can train anything you like, but it should be first required that you train some decent racial skills. In EvE you have to train racial weaponry, ship types, etc. In Dust you can use any weapon on any suit with what I consider to be laughable penalty. It's the singularly most unbelievable and unlikeable part of Dust for me. You say it's "interesting" to learn to use all the weapons. I would counter that with the statement that it's more interesting and rewarding to focus training on a single race and its suits, ships and weapons, and try to find ways to use them against all the others. I didn't ask whether I should use other races' gear. I asked how I can use Caldari gear against other races. I believe what you're telling me is that there is no way to do this. You just can't say it outright. :)
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 145	Posted - 2015.11.25 10:09:00 - [74] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: I only fit racial weapons to racial dropsuits because the idea of a CR on an Amarr dropsuit causes my soul to hurt. That being said, I will skill into a Minmatar dropsuit and fit a CR. Or a Gallente dropsuit to fit an AR. That should be the way of things, imo. I will skill into the other races eventually also. I just don't want to delay my Caldari training to do so. It bothers me to see something like a RR on an Amarr suit also. Or a Mini with a sniper rifle... But it bothers me far less than the fact that CCP makes it so easy to do this. It's actually ridiculous from a racial point of view. The suits are the power and processing source for these weapons and it's completely unreasonable to think that each race would not have optimised those systems exclusively for their own weapons. It should be a LOT harder to use the wrong weapons on the wrong suit, not just irksome. And yes, I think your approach to skilling the appropriate suits to fit the appropriate weapons is correct. It just really bothers me that CCP doesn't make this much more desirable.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 145	Posted - 2015.11.25 10:12:00 - [75] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: So what is a Caldari fighter to do to counter all these ridiculous tactics? Other than leave, that is... There is an obvious middle ground solution: In order to fight best for your chosen faction, use the best and right tools for every situation. Be flexible. Use the whole spectrum of the gear available. (practical hint: flaylock is very good against scouts, extremely good vs fast / heavily damped ones) Again, you've missed the central point of my post. I'm trying to find the best ways to use CALDARI weapons against the other races. It appears that even from CCP, there is no answer to this.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 145	Posted - 2015.11.25 10:15:00 - [76] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: GM Archduke wrote: Ahoy! Nothing good comes from willingly limiting yourself in any way, not in life and not in any games, not just DUST 514. Having a role-playing outlook on the game is cool, and being loyal to one faction to the point of only using equipment related to that faction is an interesting way of playing, but you sacrifice being versatile in order to do so. This is your choice, you could train any Skills and use any weapons, unlike some other games where race and bloodline or a character class actually limit your choices in game. Wow! I was just about to post the same! Using tools manufactured ONLY by corporations originated in on of the four major empires IS a role playing choice. (and not even a well reasoned one as: 1. Mercs want to win at any cost and are 'international' 2. Hardly any Eve NPC corporation is limited to it's original empire, example: Even Imperial Armaments have factories in Minmatar space) It's not a role-playing choice. It's an acknowledgement of something that CCP has fundamentally missed. Each race's suits will have been optimised for that race's weaponry. To think otherwise is ridiculous. CCP has dropped the ball in not making this game correct and reasonable.
Vicious Minotaur 3	Posted - 2015.11.25 10:18:00 - [77] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Honestly, anyone playing exclusively with roleplaying limitations shouldn't take part in balance discussions. I disagree. They can contribute in how their racial weapons perform when fitted to the racial frames. Let's avoid "someone is different from me and therefore wrong" arguments please. I stand behind my strong and admittedly sentiment-awakening statement. At best those people are empty noise. At worst they are distorting the grand community feedback, calling for buffs for things that do not need it. An example following the exact same logic, yes an unlikely one but an extreme one for example's sake: "I claim that Caldari Heavies need a huge +300% EHP buff because they are so weak in point defence and cannot kill masses and suck solo. (I fail to mention in my post I use only forge guns because of faction role play reasons)." Now while cal sent might need some love and FG is a great AI-weapon, having people make those claims for distorted reasons would in turn distort the player feedback. You are right. People that play exclusively with roleplaying limitations obviously lack the mental fortitude to see past their own playstyles and self-interests. It is a well known fact that those fools put their own self-interests before everything else. I frequently see those borderline mentally-handicapped individuals make statements akin to the example you so graciously provided. The intellectual midgets obviously have no idea how their preferred racial gear may be balanced in relation to the other gear. How could they know if their Scrambler Rifle needs balancing, whether it is a buff, a nerf, or some newfangled combination of the two, if they only use it and go up against it frequently? Please, they need to pick up a Rail Rifle to see how the Scrambler Rifle is balanced! There is absolutely no way those moronic neckbeardy invalids could conceivably have anything worthwhile to say pertaining to matters of balance. It's either empty noise or a distortion of the entirety of community feedback. Nothing else. And Rattati&co? Those drooling buffoons are so obviously inept that they are unable to use a single one of their brain cells to filter out all the BS. Nope. Minotaur Master Race Violently penetrating you since ca 84 BCE. ( -í° -£-û -í°)
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 145	Posted - 2015.11.25 10:19:00 - [78] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Honestly, anyone playing exclusively with roleplaying limitations shouldn't take part in balance discussions. I disagree. They can contribute in how their racial weapons perform when fitted to the racial frames. Let's avoid "someone is different from me and therefore wrong" arguments please. I agree. I think racial considerations are important. In the "real world" of New Eden, if one race produced something OP, the other races would be breaking their backs to counter it. CCP's contention that everyone should just use anything they want is just CCP taking the easy road.
korrah silain True Illuminate 175	Posted - 2015.11.25 10:29:00 - [79] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Honestly, anyone playing exclusively with roleplaying limitations shouldn't take part in balance discussions. I disagree. They can contribute in how their racial weapons perform when fitted to the racial frames. Let's avoid "someone is different from me and therefore wrong" arguments please. I stand behind my strong and admittedly sentiment-awakening statement. At best those people are empty noise. At worst they are distorting the grand community feedback, calling for buffs for things that do not need it. An example following the exact same logic, yes an unlikely one but an extreme one for example's sake: "I claim that Caldari Heavies need a huge +300% EHP buff because they are so weak in point defence and cannot kill masses and suck solo. (I fail to mention in my post I use only forge guns because of faction role play reasons)." Now while cal sent might need some love and FG is a great AI-weapon, having people make those claims for distorted reasons would in turn distort the player feedback. You are right. People that play exclusively with roleplaying limitations obviously lack the mental fortitude to see past their own playstyles and self-interests. It is a well known fact that those fools put their own self-interests before everything else. I frequently see those borderline mentally-handicapped individuals make statements akin to the example you so graciously provided. The intellectual midgets obviously have no idea how their preferred racial gear may be balanced in relation to the other gear. How could they know if their Scrambler Rifle needs balancing, whether it is a buff, a nerf, or some newfangled combination of the two, if they only use it and go up against it frequently? Please, they need to pick up a Rail Rifle to see how the Scrambler Rifle is balanced! There is absolutely no way those moronic neckbeardy invalids could conceivably have anything worthwhile to say pertaining to matters of balance. It's either empty noise or a distortion of the entirety of community feedback. Nothing else. And Rattati&co? Those drooling buffoons are so obviously inept that they are unable to use a single one of their brain cells to filter out all the BS. Nope. Nice strawman you built there. you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 145	Posted - 2015.11.25 10:35:00 - [80] - Quote CELESTA AUNGM wrote: Lots of players seem dismissive when folks tell them "This EVE or Dust-514 game? It's weird and different from any of your other stuff---I'm serious, Dude---if you go into it with the same old ideas you have from your other games, you're not going to like EVE---don't try it that way"... It is hands-down the best advice anyone could give about these two games. I saw this cool sketch illustrating the OUTRAGEOUSLY high learning curve of an Eve game versus some other MMOs. It was a hilarious picture, that is brutal and funny at the same time... and most hilarious of all was that, it was supposedly drawn by one of CCP's own staff. The learning curve is steep on this game. If you don't hack the idea and the curve, you won't be "ruined" or anything,... but you will always be blaming some part of the game as being broken, or all wrong, or stupid... usually blaming the guns. I'm not calling any of you stupid, scrubs or noobs for feeling that way... (that name-calling jazz is just anti-social tweenie rubbish, and a key part of Eve gameplay is effective social interaction between players). But I will say you are still stuck in same mistake about EVE. You're trying to push through this game with the same "gun is the tool" idea about combat. You haven't climbed the learning curve enough yet. Combat in these two games is not about the weapons, it's about the procedure for tackling the opposition. Racial in these two games does not mean "the gun shoots from far away". It means we (it's always about WE in Eve gaming) sterilize an area from just outside the enemy's range, and we cover each other extensively as we approach. If you've ever watched and listened to an Eve-Online battle vid, you HEAR more lethal decisions and actions in the battle than you SEE the exact proto-weapon that's killing things. You realize it's that player's or team's action that just caused them to lose those three super-carriers. "Racial" isn't a weapon design---it's the attack and defend style of the gang of players agrees to use in the match. The Caldari "counter" to an opponent armed with a shotgun or similar instantaneously-up-close discharge gun, is to cover your companion at a distance with a standard rail rifle or missile-battery, while your companion walks up to the target in a heavily-tanked suit and relies on your protecting him if a shotgun tries to buck him The counter is NOT a weapon in New Eden combat---it's an ACTION or co-op strategy. That seems to be one of the things that make "Caldari" so hard to play successfully in FW... it seems founded way more on overlapping cooperation from your fellow Cald players, than the other races' combat methods (but that's just all open to theory and debate). And I know... you're probably saying to yourself, "crap on all that co-op, teamplay rubbish you all spout, talking like those hippies from the 60's--- and you all are just boring me with your wacked-out insistence that this game so different from others---it's got the same danged guns as the other games, and I could hack this game easy if the game wasn't so broken--no rocket science at all!" ...And that's alright to think that way. You're thinking is wrong, but it's okay, Dust is cool enough to allow you to play it your way. You're just going to have these episodes of excruciating frustration as a result, that's all. Wow! So much good oil here! You're right about the team tactics thing. In EvE, I'm a vet from the Providence Defense Fleet, which recently dealt with incursions that were meant to hobble us shamefully. We basicly sent them packing. It was good. And it was all about team work. The fleet action was swift and decisive and basicly never stopped until the incursions stopped. There is a problem for me with teamwork in Dust. I'm used to ongoing conflict over days or weeks but we have teams in half-hour battles. So far I haven't figured out to run in a squad without being killed constantly. But that's something I have to learn to deal with...

Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 145	Posted - 2015.11.25 10:39:00 - [81] - Quote Alcina Nektaria wrote: In all honesty, I don't see the problem staying Faction SUIT loyal, as I myself only use Gallente suits. However, you should probably skill into multi-faction technology (mods/equipment) because it will give you a better chance to counter any situation you come across. Then again, unless you have a good tactical mind to run Caldari at close/mid/long range I'd suggest maybe looking into at least one other faction suit. Not that I'm ragging on Caldari suits, however in CQC there is a stupid high chance that you will just die unless you have a lot of cover to pop behind. I can get away with only running Gallente suits in ever situation save for tiptoeing through the tulips in an open field (if there are snipers or RR users). But even with the suits I use AR on my Assault, Shotty on Scout (sometimes TacAR), PLC and Burst on Commando (that's as far as I stick to racial guns ( I do it for the bonus' ). My Logi uses ACR and ARR and my Sentinel ofc uses an HMG. Oh, I plan (eventually) to train into other races both here and in EvE. That's of course, as long as Dust still exists by then. But no, I won't be training other technologies to use with Caldari suits. You know those bonuses? I know they're laughable, but they are meant to indicate which suits match which technologies. About the only bonus that actually looks reasonable to me is the damage bonus for hubrid railguns on Caldari Commando suits. I mean, that would be the START of the bonuses if this were EvE.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.11.25 10:43:00 - [82] - Quote What you're missing is that the shotgun isn't OP. A rail rifle has 19 times the optimal range of a shotgun. What do you think happens when you shoot a shotgun scout with a rail rifle outside of 15m? Either it takes cover immediately (assuming there's cover there) or it dies. Simple as that. What is the counter to a rail rifle 75m away if you are using a shotgun? If we are talking about racial gear, what is the Gallente counter to a sniper 350m away? Sniper rifles are Caldari weapons. It would be just as easy to claim the rail rifle's range is OP as it is to claim the shotgun's damage is. But that's missing the point. There doesn't need to be direct parallel racial weapons, as different races are meant to use different strategies to fight each other. You don't need a Caldari shotgun, as Caldari are supposed to kill the shotgunner from outside shotgun range. Also, nova knives are Caldari. Read the description, look at the design. Proto knives are developed by Ishikone.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 145	Posted - 2015.11.25 10:45:00 - [83] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Devadander wrote: A caldari shotgun would be amazing though. Js I'd take a charge rail shotgun, similar to the charge Sniper but a shotgun Yep, something like this, or like a mini-forge-gun would be good.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 145	Posted - 2015.11.25 10:48:00 - [84] - Quote DEATH THE KlD wrote: Ahkhomi Cypher wrote: So we gonna act like assault rail rifle and bolt pistol on a Calass not strong as **** right now? They always have been but the community was to busy chasing fotm to notice Agreed. But that's the problem with FOTM. Noone notices anything else.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 145	Posted - 2015.11.25 10:56:00 - [85] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: postapo wastelander wrote: Devadander wrote: A caldari shotgun would be amazing though. Js Something what shooting magnetized slugs XD Yup sadly CCP cannot implement any of racial models :( One minutes for MIA technology :-¦( Vehicles 1.)weapons 2.)weapons 1.)vehicles 2.)vehicles Jeez how i want these in game too :(( *Three honorary shots to air As awesome as these are, I kind of wish we only had the weapons and suits from beta, and CCP used the extra RAM to make the game work better. And the extra dev time to make the battles more meaningful in a connected war kind of way. Like choosing districts to attack in FW. Persistent wars in PC involving simultaneous battles on different maps, linked in some way. No attack - wait 24 hours, fight an instanced battle bs. More EVE connection. That kind of thing. Yep. Put me in the same category. I was really excited when we were going to get Walking In Stations which was going to be part of the connection between Dust and EvE. Instead we got Captain's Quarters, which basicly add exactly nothing to the game that wasn't already there. In fact, many people can't even go to Captain's Quarters because it's so heavy on graphics processing. And then the connection never happened. Yes, there were orbital strikes. But where were the options to transport mercs around New Eden from conflict to conflict? Instead we get these stylised unrealistic battles. I had no idea what I was getting myself into when I started playing during the Beta, and then I stopped, which I now think was a really bad move. From what I can see I would have enjoyed it a lot more than Dust as it is now!
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 145	Posted - 2015.11.25 10:58:00 - [86] - Quote Her Nibs wrote: A mass driver makes scouts fly really good. It's also not Caldari and therefore not an option for me at this point. But yes, they do! :)
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 145	Posted - 2015.11.25 11:00:00 - [87] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: GM Archduke wrote: Ahoy! Nothing good comes from willingly limiting yourself in any way, not in life and not in any games, not just DUST 514. Having a role-playing outlook on the game is cool, and being loyal to one faction to the point of only using equipment related to that faction is an interesting way of playing, but you sacrifice being versatile in order to do so. This is your choice, you could train any Skills and use any weapons, unlike some other games where race and bloodline or a character class actually limit your choices in game. he3s right. take a look at me. im only skilled into gallente stuff. while you have problems with shotguns, i have problems wit rails at range outside of my ar range. open maps are not good for me, the same way closed maps arent good for you. its all racially balanced tbh to a certain point. But the Gallente have Burst ARs. They have a scope do they not? Aren't they effectively a long-range AR?
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 145	Posted - 2015.11.25 11:04:00 - [88] - Quote Devadander wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: GM Archduke wrote: Ahoy! Nothing good comes from willingly limiting yourself in any way, not in life and not in any games, not just DUST 514. Having a role-playing outlook on the game is cool, and being loyal to one faction to the point of only using equipment related to that faction is an interesting way of playing, but you sacrifice being versatile in order to do so. This is your choice, you could train any Skills and use any weapons, unlike some other games where race and bloodline or a character class actually limit your choices in game. he3s right. take a look at me. im only skilled into gallente stuff. while you have problems with shotguns, i have problems wit rails at range outside of my ar range. open maps are not good for me, the same way closed maps arent good for you. its all racially balanced tbh to a certain point. Ive been caldari since caldari caldaried.... Once i broke 60m sp though, i started to dabble in dopples. I could infight in a caldari.. Or I could bust out the galass. I can run fast in a caldari.. A minass runs faster. I try to stand and deliver in my caldari.. But amass actually delivers like Jimmy Johns. Just like I could fail trying with all those suits to kill people at 70+ meters (barring the lazor and sniper of course) A mechanic will tell you: use the right tool for the right job. Start with amarr, as an rp fan it was easy due to alliance. Then I got into the whole 'using enemy tech against the maker' kick. holds out a plate of cookies Once I get to 60m SP on pure Caldari, I'll probably be looking for something else to train, as well! I'm not saying I won't train anything else, just that right now, I'm training Caldari and trying to find the best ways to use Caldari weapons against everything else (including Caldari for that matter). This is more of an exploration than a sacrifice....
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 145	Posted - 2015.11.25 11:12:00 - [89] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: The real problem[s] with racial weapons are: 1) Lack of racial variants. No Assault Plasma Cannon. No Tactical Rail Rifle. No Assault Bolt Pistol... 2) Lack of racial weapon types. Were the Amarr AV weapon at? Or the Minmatar Sniper? Oh, that's right, NOWHERE! 3) Lack of consistency. Why the Assault HMG functions like a Breach weapon? 4) Lack of balance. Why the Assault Forge Gun render near-obsolete the other two Forge Gun variants? Clearly there's no point in some of these. I agree there should be a Mini sniper. The sniper rifle started off as a projectile weapon. In its simplest form there should still be a variant of this. I think the idea of a sniper AR is ridiculous. ARs are blasters - ultra short range weapons. But I'm also not saying people shouldn't be able to train anything and everything. Just that there should be more racial bonuses and/or penalties for using a weapon on the "right" or "wrong" suit. Using a laser gun on a Caldari ship, for instance, would be ridiculous. Noone would do it. But here in Dust, with suits which no doubt would have been optimised for the correct weapons, we use anything and everything on them.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 145	Posted - 2015.11.25 11:16:00 - [90] - Quote korrah silain wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: I am Caldari, I fight in Caldari suits with Caldari weapons. But there are weapons which are OP to which Caldari weapons and suits seem to have no answer. One such weapon is the shotgun. It's not a Caldari weapon, so I don't use it, but what do I use to either counter it or emulate it? There's nothing right? Yes, there's the shotgun, if I were happy enough to use one but as I don't, that's not an option. No doubt people will think it's ridiculous that I don't just train the shotgun and use it. Well, apart from anything else, I don't like the idea of training FOMT which is basicly what the shotty jumpy scout is. I run Caldari Scout myself, and won't stoop to such ridiculous behaviour. Perhaps I should basicly accept that what I'm simply saying is this game has become ridiculous. Even in the short time I've been playing, I've seen it degenerate. Now it's just painful. But that's probably a discussion for another thread. So what is a Caldari fighter to do to counter all these ridiculous tactics? Other than leave, that is... The problem here is that you are using scouts inappropproblem. due to a scouts low armor, and ewar advantages, and speed it lends itself to a quick strike style of play. This only really works if you chose a weapon with high alpha to allow for decisive first strikes. Opening up with any rifle simply doesn't work well within the paradigm because doing so gives the opponent enough time to put you down in two shots. Unfortunately the only weapons with such capabilities are the shotgun, and nova knives. In other words this isn't a racial weapon problem, its a problem with you trying to run scouts with assault combat doctrine. If you want to counter shotgunners invest in ewar, and an arr on a logi, or assault. I was with you all the way to the point where you mentioned shotgun and nova knives. Yes, they are the high-alpha weapons. But because they aren't Caldari I don't train them and therefore don't use them. The highest alpha weapon I have is the bolt pistol. That will have to be it for me.

Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 146	Posted - 2015.11.25 11:26:00 - [91] - Quote 2Berries wrote: If your a cal scout worrying about shotgun scouts, more than likely gal, all you really need is a good scanner. You won't scan them directly but you'll get a margin of error, that should spur your situational awarness enough to look around and watch your back. Cal scouts work best from the margins moving in. If your getting hit from behind you may be moving too close. Only go for hacks when it is painfully obvious it's clear or theres enough blueberries around that you can fool yourself into thinking your safe. lol yeah, good advice here. I tend to take too many risks with hacks. Most of my WPs come from hacks, not kills. But those hacks are often right under the noses of the enemy. And I mean right there, with the enemy on the other side of the installation. Yeah, that's risky. About the only kills I make are when I come up to someone on someone hacking or using an installation, and try to OHS them with the bolt pistol. But it doesn't always work and sometimes needs more than one shot. Sometimes, though, they "wake up" to the fact they're being hit and then I'm done.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 146	Posted - 2015.11.25 11:28:00 - [92] - Quote Russel Mendoza wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: I am Caldari, I fight in Caldari suits with Caldari weapons. But there are weapons which are OP to which Caldari weapons and suits seem to have no answer. One such weapon is the shotgun. It's not a Caldari weapon, so I don't use it, but what do I use to either counter it or emulate it? There's nothing right? Yes, there's the shotgun, if I were happy enough to use one but as I don't, that's not an option. No doubt people will think it's ridiculous that I don't just train the shotgun and use it. Well, apart from anything else, I don't like the idea of training FOMT which is basicly what the shotty jumpy scout is. I run Caldari Scout myself, and won't stoop to such ridiculous behaviour. Perhaps I should basicly accept that what I'm simply saying is this game has become ridiculous. Even in the short time I've been playing, I've seen it degenerate. Now it's just painful. But that's probably a discussion for another thread. So what is a Caldari fighter to do to counter all these ridiculous tactics? Other than leave, that is... Ccp is simply favoring the gallente scums. Ar is op. Shotty is op. And they dont get nerfed. So yeah. Fu ck the ccp gallente alliance. For the state! Ooorah! Well, I've said elsewhere what I think of the way CCP favours certain races and technologies. They never nerf anything they like themselves. Ridiculous.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 146	Posted - 2015.11.25 11:34:00 - [93] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: I think a rail rifle scout could work. Use the cloak along with low profile and mobility to perform a wide flank. Hit the enemy in the back from range. If they shoot back, move. You will have distracted them, which is very helpful for your team pushing from the front. Cloak up and escape when they come for you. Carry knives as a sidearm for stealth CQC. I've done this with a Gal scout on the bridge map in domination. Was pretty effective. The Caldari scout IS a rail rifle scout! That's the primary weapon on a Hawk Scout BPO. And the bolt pistol is the secondary weapon, but from what I can see, it's actually more the primary because of the two it's the high-alpha weapon. For those that don't know the layout of a Caldari Hawk Scout, it's RR, BP, APEX cloak, scanner, locus grenade, two basic shield extenders, two precision enhancers, a profile dampener and a range enhancer. I usually swap out the range enhancer for a profile dampener and beef up everything except the actual weapons which are fine for my needs. From what I see both the RR and BP are primarily range weapons, but the BP works best for me at point blank range in a stealth attack. I like your ideas of using distraction from range. I will try that. Thanks.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.11.25 11:36:00 - [94] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: GM Archduke wrote: Ahoy! Nothing good comes from willingly limiting yourself in any way, not in life and not in any games, not just DUST 514. Having a role-playing outlook on the game is cool, and being loyal to one faction to the point of only using equipment related to that faction is an interesting way of playing, but you sacrifice being versatile in order to do so. This is your choice, you could train any Skills and use any weapons, unlike some other games where race and bloodline or a character class actually limit your choices in game. he3s right. take a look at me. im only skilled into gallente stuff. while you have problems with shotguns, i have problems wit rails at range outside of my ar range. open maps are not good for me, the same way closed maps arent good for you. its all racially balanced tbh to a certain point. But the Gallente have Burst ARs. They have a scope do they not? Aren't they effectively a long-range AR? Burst AR optimal range = 50m. RR optimal range = 75m. So not really. A burst AR is still relatively short range. Even a tactical AR, which is meant to be the long range AR, only has an optimal range of 61m. But the rifles are deliberately quite similar, as they are all battle rifles.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 146	Posted - 2015.11.25 11:37:00 - [95] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Russel Mendoza wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: I am Caldari, I fight in Caldari suits with Caldari weapons. But there are weapons which are OP to which Caldari weapons and suits seem to have no answer. One such weapon is the shotgun. It's not a Caldari weapon, so I don't use it, but what do I use to either counter it or emulate it? There's nothing right? Yes, there's the shotgun, if I were happy enough to use one but as I don't, that's not an option. No doubt people will think it's ridiculous that I don't just train the shotgun and use it. Well, apart from anything else, I don't like the idea of training FOMT which is basicly what the shotty jumpy scout is. I run Caldari Scout myself, and won't stoop to such ridiculous behaviour. Perhaps I should basicly accept that what I'm simply saying is this game has become ridiculous. Even in the short time I've been playing, I've seen it degenerate. Now it's just painful. But that's probably a discussion for another thread. So what is a Caldari fighter to do to counter all these ridiculous tactics? Other than leave, that is... Ccp is simply favoring the gallente scums. Ar is op. Shotty is op. And they dont get nerfed. So yeah. Fu ck the ccp gallente alliance. For the state! Ooorah! ROFL. The ar got nerfed with uprising and has been garbage since, until recently, and is still garbage on anything but the galass. The shotty has been nerfed down to the point that it pretty much can't be nerfed anymore without becoming a fool's weapon. Remember, gallente light/assault tech is some of the oldest in the game, and probably has had more nerf/buff cycles than any other gear in the game. Truth is, Caldari have always been the most OP, in eve and dust. The other races are just now catching up, and the caldari are screaming OP, when the other races have dealt with it for years. Congrats caldari, you now have a counter like the rest of us. Strange. From the Caldari perspective, everyone else is OP. :)
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 147	Posted - 2015.11.25 11:47:00 - [96] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: What you're missing is that the shotgun isn't OP. A rail rifle has 19 times the optimal range of a shotgun. What do you think happens when you shoot a shotgun scout with a rail rifle outside of 15m? Either it takes cover immediately (assuming there's cover there) or it dies. Simple as that. What is the counter to a rail rifle 75m away if you are using a shotgun? If we are talking about racial gear, what is the Gallente counter to a sniper 350m away? Sniper rifles are Caldari weapons. It would be just as easy to claim the rail rifle's range is OP as it is to claim the shotgun's damage is. But that's missing the point. There doesn't need to be direct parallel racial weapons, as different races are meant to use different strategies to fight each other. You don't need a Caldari shotgun, as Caldari are supposed to kill the shotgunner from outside shotgun range. Also, nova knives are Caldari. Read the description, look at the design. Proto knives are developed by Ishikone. This thread was principally about how to deal with shotguns which ARE OP at extreme short range. Rail rifles can't do anything about a shotgun when they're right on you. The only weapon I run that can counter a shotty scout appears to be the bolt pistol.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.11.25 12:31:00 - [97] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: This thread was principally about how to deal with shotguns which ARE OP at extreme short range. Rail rifles can't do anything about a shotgun when they're right on you. The only weapon I run that can counter a shotty scout appears to be the bolt pistol. Ishukone developing the nova knives means nothing - they copy everything in sight! :) But seriously, if nova knives were Caldari tech, where are the suits with bonuses for them? Yes, and I'm saying Gallente weapons can't do anything about a rail rifle at optimal range. So there isn't a problem.
postapo wastelander Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.11.25 12:55:00 - [98] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: postapo wastelander wrote: Devadander wrote: A caldari shotgun would be amazing though. Js Something what shooting magnetized slugs XD Yup sadly CCP cannot implement any of racial models :( One minutes for MIA technology :-¦( Vehicles 1.)weapons 2.)weapons 1.)vehicles 2.)vehicles Jeez how i want these in game too :(( Three honorary shots to air As awesome as these are, I kind of wish we only had the weapons and suits from beta, and CCP used the extra RAM to make the game work better. And the extra dev time to make the battles more meaningful in a connected war kind of way. Like choosing districts to attack in FW. Persistent wars in PC involving simultaneous battles on different maps, linked in some way. No attack - wait 24 hours, fight an instanced battle bs. More EVE connection. That kind of thing. Yep. Put me in the same category. I was really excited when we were going to get Walking In Stations which was going to be part of the connection between Dust and EvE. Instead we got Captain's Quarters, which basicly add exactly nothing to the game that wasn't already there. In fact, many people can't even go to Captain's Quarters because it's so heavy on graphics processing. And then the connection never happened. Yes, there were orbital strikes. But where were the options to transport mercs around New Eden from conflict to conflict? Instead we get these stylised unrealistic battles. I had no idea what I was getting myself into when I started playing during the Beta, and then I stopped, which I now think was a really bad move. From what I can see I would have enjoyed it a lot more than Dust as it is now! Merc quarters yup, i honestly agree why we need something like 10x10x4 flat. That space can be used for something else. "Im the Eater of the Fish and Mushroom."*
postapo wastelander Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.11.25 12:57:00 - [99] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: What you're missing is that the shotgun isn't OP. A rail rifle has 19 times the optimal range of a shotgun. What do you think happens when you shoot a shotgun scout with a rail rifle outside of 15m? Either it takes cover immediately (assuming there's cover there) or it dies. Simple as that. What is the counter to a rail rifle 75m away if you are using a shotgun? If we are talking about racial gear, what is the Gallente counter to a sniper 350m away? Sniper rifles are Caldari weapons. It would be just as easy to claim the rail rifle's range is OP as it is to claim the shotgun's damage is. But that's missing the point. There doesn't need to be direct parallel racial weapons, as different races are meant to use different strategies to fight each other. You don't need a Caldari shotgun, as Caldari are supposed to kill the shotgunner from outside shotgun range. Also, nova knives are Caldari. Read the description, look at the design. Proto knives are developed by Ishikone. This thread was principally about how to deal with shotguns which ARE OP at extreme short range. Rail rifles can't do anything about a shotgun when they're right on you. The only weapon I run that can counter a shotty scout appears to be the bolt pistol. Ishukone developing the nova knives means nothing - they copy everything in sight! :) But seriously, if nova knives were Caldari tech, where are the suits with bonuses for them? By design they are caldari, but need to say every race had planed they version long time ago. Sadly again, no ram. *"Im the Eater of the Fish and Mushroom."*
Radiant Pancake3 2	Posted - 2015.11.25 14:05:00 - [100] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Ishukone developing the nova knives means nothing - they copy everything in sight! :) But seriously, if nova knives were Caldari tech, where are the suits with bonuses for them? Min scout, yeah that's right we took your butter forks and used them for our own! "Pancake is a corp hopping forum troll, that's his excuse." - bane sieg Min Loyalist

Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 148	Posted - 2015.11.25 14:09:00 - [101] - Quote Radiant Pancake3 wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Ishukone developing the nova knives means nothing - they copy everything in sight! :) But seriously, if nova knives were Caldari tech, where are the suits with bonuses for them? Min scout, yeah that's right we took your butter forks and used them for our own! Don't Mini scouts use butter forks as weapons? ;) That's right, steal our butter forks and fight us with them! ;)
Radiant Pancake3 2	Posted - 2015.11.25 14:11:00 - [102] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: For those that don't know the layout of a Caldari Hawk Scout, it's RR, BP, APEX cloak, scanner, locus grenade, two basic shield extenders, two precision enhancers, a profile dampener and a range enhancer. I usually swap out the range enhancer for a profile dampener and beef up everything except the actual weapons which are fine for my needs. That Scanner is gallente tech. Just sayin'. "Pancake is a corp hopping forum troll, that's his excuse." - bane sieg Min Loyalist
Radiant Pancake3 2	Posted - 2015.11.25 14:14:00 - [103] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Radiant Pancake3 wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Ishukone developing the nova knives means nothing - they copy everything in sight! :) But seriously, if nova knives were Caldari tech, where are the suits with bonuses for them? Min scout, yeah that's right we took your butter forks and used them for our own! Don't Mini scouts use butter forks as weapons? ;) That's right, steal our butter forks and fight us with them! ;) Yep... Will do... I'll stab you later today mmmkay? I promise, you'll make a great supper. "Pancake is a corp hopping forum troll, that's his excuse." - bane sieg Min Loyalist
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 148	Posted - 2015.11.25 14:16:00 - [104] - Quote Radiant Pancake3 wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: For those that don't know the layout of a Caldari Hawk Scout, it's RR, BP, APEX cloak, scanner, locus grenade, two basic shield extenders, two precision enhancers, a profile dampener and a range enhancer. I usually swap out the range enhancer for a profile dampener and beef up everything except the actual weapons which are fine for my needs. That Scanner is gallente tech. Just sayin'. Lol. I don't actually use them. There's one on the Hawk Scout suit, so I have to swap it out for a drop uplink most of the time, but every so often I use it for a bit of a lark. Its scan precision is like 45 or something. I'd prolly detect things faster by running into them. :)
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 148	Posted - 2015.11.25 14:16:00 - [105] - Quote Radiant Pancake3 wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Radiant Pancake3 wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Ishukone developing the nova knives means nothing - they copy everything in sight! :) But seriously, if nova knives were Caldari tech, where are the suits with bonuses for them? Min scout, yeah that's right we took your butter forks and used them for our own! Don't Mini scouts use butter forks as weapons? ;) That's right, steal our butter forks and fight us with them! ;) Yep... Will do... I'll stab you later today mmmkay? I promise, you'll make a great supper. Damn, you're inviting me to dinner. As the dinner... :)
Radiant Pancake3 2	Posted - 2015.11.25 14:18:00 - [106] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Radiant Pancake3 wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: For those that don't know the layout of a Caldari Hawk Scout, it's RR, BP, APEX cloak, scanner, locus grenade, two basic shield extenders, two precision enhancers, a profile dampener and a range enhancer. I usually swap out the range enhancer for a profile dampener and beef up everything except the actual weapons which are fine for my needs. That Scanner is gallente tech. Just sayin'. Lol. I don't actually use them. There's one on the Hawk Scout suit, so I have to swap it out for a drop uplink most of the time, but every so often I use it for a bit of a lark. Its scan precision is like 45 or something. I'd prolly detect things faster by running into them. :) Prolly undamped assaults and stuff... also uplinks are amarrian tech... you could put a nanohive or a needle on it those are cow dairy tech... That is if you're going to be a Caldari Elitist... "Pancake is a corp hopping forum troll, that's his excuse." - bane sieg Min Loyalist
Radiant Pancake3 2	Posted - 2015.11.25 14:19:00 - [107] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Radiant Pancake3 wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Radiant Pancake3 wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Ishukone developing the nova knives means nothing - they copy everything in sight! :) But seriously, if nova knives were Caldari tech, where are the suits with bonuses for them? Min scout, yeah that's right we took your butter forks and used them for our own! Don't Mini scouts use butter forks as weapons? ;) That's right, steal our butter forks and fight us with them! ;) Yep... Will do... I'll stab you later today mmmkay? I promise, you'll make a great supper. Damn, you're inviting me to dinner. As the dinner... :) Of course, Dinner first, necrophilia later. Always, just for you baby. :) "Pancake is a corp hopping forum troll, that's his excuse." - bane sieg Min Loyalist
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 148	Posted - 2015.11.25 14:25:00 - [108] - Quote Radiant Pancake3 wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Radiant Pancake3 wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: For those that don't know the layout of a Caldari Hawk Scout, it's RR, BP, APEX cloak, scanner, locus grenade, two basic shield extenders, two precision enhancers, a profile dampener and a range enhancer. I usually swap out the range enhancer for a profile dampener and beef up everything except the actual weapons which are fine for my needs. That Scanner is gallente tech. Just sayin'. Lol. I don't actually use them. There's one on the Hawk Scout suit, so I have to swap it out for a drop uplink most of the time, but every so often I use it for a bit of a lark. Its scan precision is like 45 or something. I'd prolly detect things faster by running into them. :) Prolly undamped assaults and stuff... also uplinks are amarrian tech... you could put a nanohive or a needle on it those are cow dairy tech... That is if you're going to be a Caldari Elitist... There are some technologies that have spread between the races - jump gates for instance. I have no problem with the fact that scanners and uplinks are other races' tech, and Caldari are using them. That sort of technology is fundamental to getting around and doing things in EvE. Everyone uses scanner technology in EvE as well, regardless of race. Again, it's fundamental to doing stuff in EvE.
Radiant Pancake3 2	Posted - 2015.11.25 14:26:00 - [109] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Radiant Pancake3 wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Radiant Pancake3 wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: For those that don't know the layout of a Caldari Hawk Scout, it's RR, BP, APEX cloak, scanner, locus grenade, two basic shield extenders, two precision enhancers, a profile dampener and a range enhancer. I usually swap out the range enhancer for a profile dampener and beef up everything except the actual weapons which are fine for my needs. That Scanner is gallente tech. Just sayin'. Lol. I don't actually use them. There's one on the Hawk Scout suit, so I have to swap it out for a drop uplink most of the time, but every so often I use it for a bit of a lark. Its scan precision is like 45 or something. I'd prolly detect things faster by running into them. :) Prolly undamped assaults and stuff... also uplinks are amarrian tech... you could put a nanohive or a needle on it those are cow dairy tech... That is if you're going to be a Caldari Elitist... There are some technologies that have spread between the races - jump gates for instance. I have no problem with the fact that scanners and uplinks are other races' tech, and Caldari are using them. That sort of technology is fundamental to getting around and doing things in EvE. Everyone uses scanner technology in EvE as well, regardless of race. Again, it's fundamental to doing stuff in EvE. Oh, baby, you're still here I thought I scared you off with necrophilia... :) Meh, To each their own... "Pancake is a corp hopping forum troll, that's his excuse." - bane sieg Min Loyalist
Alcina Nektaria KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 441	Posted - 2015.11.25 15:02:00 - [110] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Alcina Nektaria wrote: In all honesty, I don't see the problem staying Faction SUIT loyal, as I myself only use Gallente suits. However, you should probably skill into multi-faction technology (mods/equipment) because it will give you a better chance to counter any situation you come across. Then again, unless you have a good tactical mind to run Caldari at close/mid/long range I'd suggest maybe looking into at least one other faction suit. Not that I'm ragging on Caldari suits, however in CQC there is a stupid high chance that you will just die unless you have a lot of cover to pop behind. I can get away with only running Gallente suits in ever situation save for tiptoeing through the tulips in an open field (if there are snipers or RR users). But even with the suits I use AR on my Assault, Shotty on Scout (sometimes TacAR), PLC and Burst on Commando (that's as far as I stick to racial guns ( I do it for the bonus' ). My Logi uses ACR and ARR and my Sentinel ofc uses an HMG. Oh, I plan (eventually) to train into other races both here and in EvE. That's of course, as long as Dust still exists by then. But no, I won't be training other technologies to use with Caldari suits. You know those bonuses? I know they're laughable, but they are meant to indicate which suits match which technologies. About the only bonus that actually looks reasonable to me is the damage bonus for hybrid railguns on Caldari Commando suits. I mean, that would be the START of the bonuses if this were EvE. You get a like for wanting to train all suits and ships (good luck in EVE with that I can't even fathom how long it will take considering I've been training for almost two years to master the specific ships. While I do believe not all mods are for all suits (specifically shields don't belong on a gallente suit imho) it is still a good idea to look into other mods being usable on your cal suit that maybe belong to another race just to give you the best chance of survivablity. D4GG3R is my mom. I have reason to suspect Archduke is a Sassy Pirate.

korrah silain True Illuminate 176	Posted - 2015.11.25 19:59:00 - [111] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: postapo wastelander wrote: [quote=Alena Asakura]I am Caldari, I fight in Caldari suits with Caldari weapons. But there are weapons which are OP to which Caldari weapons and suits seem to have no answer. One such weapon is the shotgun. It's not a Caldari weapon, so I don't use it, but what do I use to either counter it or emulate it? There's nothing right? Yes, there's the shotgun, if I were happy enough to use one but as I don't, that's not an option. No doubt people will think it's ridiculous that I don't just train the shotgun and use it. Well, apart from anything else, I don't like the idea of training FOMT which is basicly what the shotty jumpy scout is. I run Caldari Scout myself, and won't stoop to such ridiculous behaviour. Perhaps I should basicly accept that what I'm simply saying is this game has become ridiculous. Even in the short time I've been playing, I've seen it degenerate. Now it's just painful. But that's probably a discussion for another thread. So what is a Caldari fighter to do to counter all these ridiculous tactics? Other than leave, that is... This is not issue of racial weaponary. Shotgun is OP in close range and it is how it should be. By my observation some tweaking ti range can be fix for this situation. The point I'm making is, there is no similar Caldari weapon. My guess is CCP thinks if you want to use a weapon that's as OP as the shotgun, use the shotgun. I train exclusively Caldari weaponry because that's the way to get uber good at any given weapon class. If I take time out to train shotguns, I will have to delay being uber good at RR and ARR. I'm not saying I won't train it eventually, just not yet. But back to my point, there's no light weapon based on railgun technology that's as OP as the shotgun. There's a sidearm that is - the bolt pistol is a railgun, and it's definitely OP for a handgun. But there's no light Caldari weapon that is. The forge gun, of course, is OP, but you can't use those on a Scout Suit... :)[/qweapon] XD the fact you are describing the shotgun as op, as well as this belief that you cannot become "uber" good on multiple weapon platforms betrays your scrubbiness. You are misinterpreting the art of war. Dominance doesn't come from the best weapon, or decline handling of a single weapon, but using the correct wreapon in the correct way. The shotgun, for example, is hardly op, it requires an ability to close distance and employ it on your terms. This is the key to combat-engaging on favorable terms. The thing about the assault class of rifles is they are designed to be very flexible, reaching out to a good distance while remaining somewhat effective in cqc, however weapons that are specialized for aa given situation (like the shitgun) will outclass them in that situation, because they are specialized-not op. So taking your example of "op" weapons the caldari absolutely have a rival to the shotgun in the standard rail rifle. Long range, heavy damage, and excellent accuracy combine to make for a nasty long range kill machine, the best counter to which is to close distance. Its all situational, and that is why I never specialize. Basically your entire premise of "op" weapons is flawed, as well as your perspextive of how battles are conducted. Meditate on this young warrior you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 148	Posted - 2015.11.25 22:46:00 - [112] - Quote Alcina Nektaria wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Alcina Nektaria wrote: In all honesty, I don't see the problem staying Faction SUIT loyal, as I myself only use Gallente suits. However, you should probably skill into multi-faction technology (mods/equipment) because it will give you a better chance to counter any situation you come across. Then again, unless you have a good tactical mind to run Caldari at close/mid/long range I'd suggest maybe looking into at least one other faction suit. Not that I'm ragging on Caldari suits, however in CQC there is a stupid high chance that you will just die unless you have a lot of cover to pop behind. I can get away with only running Gallente suits in ever situation save for tiptoeing through the tulips in an open field (if there are snipers or RR users). But even with the suits I use AR on my Assault, Shotty on Scout (sometimes TacAR), PLC and Burst on Commando (that's as far as I stick to racial guns ( I do it for the bonus' ). My Logi uses ACR and ARR and my Sentinel ofc uses an HMG. Oh, I plan (eventually) to train into other races both here and in EvE. That's of course, as long as Dust still exists by then. But no, I won't be training other technologies to use with Caldari suits. You know those bonuses? I know they're laughable, but they are meant to indicate which suits match which technologies. About the only bonus that actually looks reasonable to me is the damage bonus for hybrid railguns on Caldari Commando suits. I mean, that would be the START of the bonuses if this were EvE. You get a like for wanting to train all suits and ships (good luck in EVE with that I can't even fathom how long it will take considering I've been training for almost two years to master the specific ships i want to use) While I do believe not all mods are for all suits (specifically shields don't belong on a gallente suit imho) it is still a good idea to look into other mods being usable on your cal suit that maybe belong to another race just to give you the best chance of survivablity. Nalianna, my EvE main, has been around since Dec 2010. She's largely finished training all the ships, except for Caldari Titans, the Leviathan. There's still some training to do, but most of the combat ships she will ever fly and all the gear is at level 5. Yes, it's taken that long, five years basicly, all Caldari or Caldari related. She has some pretty mean ships at level 5 mastery - the Rattlesnake is probably the meanest - a combination of Caldari and Gallente tech, courtesy of a pirate faction the Guristas. And she's level 5 on the Widow, too, which is a nasty piece of work. I've yet to use that one. It's a bit too specialised for normal operations. Yes, survivability is an important consideration, but for the moment I just want to see how well a Caldari can do, sticking with their own tech. I know it will take longer, noone needs to tell me that. What I want to discover is how will a lvl 5 everything Caldari does against everyone else. I expect that will take some time, too. Some things I've read just in the last day indicate that Dust may indeed be around longer than I anticipated, so I may get my wish, but even if I don't, it's an interesting exercise.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 148	Posted - 2015.11.25 22:54:00 - [113] - Quote korrah silain wrote: XD the fact you are describing the shotgun as op, as well as this belief that you cannot become "uber" good on multiple weapon platforms betrays your scrubbiness. You are misinterpreting the art of war. Dominance doesn't come from the best weapon, or decline handling of a single weapon, but using the correct wreapon in the correct way. The shotgun, for example, is hardly op, it requires an ability to close distance and employ it on your terms. This is the key to combat-engaging on favorable terms. The thing about the assault class of rifles is they are designed to be very flexible, reaching out to a good distance while remaining somewhat effective in cqc, however weapons that are specialized for aa given situation (like the shitgun) will outclass them in that situation, because they are specialized-not op. So taking your example of "op" weapons the caldari absolutely have a rival to the shotgun in the standard rail rifle. Long range, heavy damage, and excellent accuracy combine to make for a nasty long range kill machine, the best counter to which is to close distance. Its all situational, and that is why I never specialize. Basically your entire premise of "op" weapons is flawed, as well as your perspextive of how battles are conducted. Meditate on this young warrior Unfortunately, it is you who are misinterpreting. you've completely missed what I'm on about. I'm doing this as almost an intellectual exercise, not an exercise in what weapon to use, or how to use it, or what to train, etc, etc. As for scrubbiness, what exactly does that mean? To me, scrubbiness is using anything in the game that you think will give you an edge, regardless of whether it's appropriate or not. I'm staying as far away from that definition of scrubbiness as I possibly can. Do you have another definition, if so please enlighten me. Throughout this entire thread I've repeated stated that my problem is that I could not see a COUNTER to the shotgun, in up close and personal CQC. There is only one that I am trained in, as far as I can see - the Bolt Pistol. The Rail Rifle simply doesn't cut it because it's a range weapon, where the Bolt Pistol is an up-close high alpha weapon. I'm not talking about range weapons, only extremely close range ones.
korrah silain True Illuminate 181	Posted - 2015.11.25 23:16:00 - [114] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: korrah silain wrote: XD the fact you are describing the shotgun as op, as well as this belief that you cannot become "uber" good on multiple weapon platforms betrays your scrubbiness. You are misinterpreting the art of war. Dominance doesn't come from the best weapon, or decline handling of a single weapon, but using the correct wreapon in the correct way. The shotgun, for example, is hardly op, it requires an ability to close distance and employ it on your terms. This is the key to combat-engaging on favorable terms. The thing about the assault class of rifles is they are designed to be very flexible, reaching out to a good distance while remaining somewhat effective in cqc, however weapons that are specialized for aa given situation (like the shitgun) will outclass them in that situation, because they are specialized-not op. So taking your example of "op" weapons the caldari absolutely have a rival to the shotgun in the standard rail rifle. Long range, heavy damage, and excellent accuracy combine to make for a nasty long range kill machine, the best counter to which is to close distance. Its all situational, and that is why I never specialize. Basically your entire premise of "op" weapons is flawed, as well as your perspextive of how battles are conducted. Meditate on this young warrior Unfortunately, it is you who are misinterpreting. you've completely missed what I'm on about. I'm doing this as almost an intellectual exercise, not an exercise in what weapon to use, or how to use it, or what to train, etc, etc. As for scrubbiness, what exactly does that mean? To me, scrubbiness is using anything in the game that you think will give you an edge, regardless of whether it's appropriate or not. I'm staying as far away from that definition of scrubbiness as I possibly can. Do you have another definition, if so please enlighten me. Throughout this entire thread I've repeated stated that my problem is that I could not see a COUNTER to the shotgun, in up close and personal CQC. There is only one that I am trained in, as far as I can see - the Bolt Pistol. The Rail Rifle simply doesn't cut it because it's a range weapon, where the Bolt Pistol is an up-close high alpha weapon. I'm not talking about range weapons, only extremely close range ones. Scrubbiness would be whining that something is op without taking into account the fact that it is a weapon specialized for the given situation you are complaining about. As for direct counter to cqc...well why should there even be one? With asset limits being what they are I see no problem with having only one specialized weapon for each broad situation. Another, better answer that I was getting to is that gameplay doesn't boil down to equipment alone. Having trouble with shotgunners? Back peddal while strafing quickly. You will mitigate damage due to range, and the fact that to do real damage most of the spread needs to hit. The bolt pistol is not and never will be a cqc match for the shotgun but that's because it has great range and is a long range weapon. You are again misinterpreting weapon roles. The assault rail rifle is the closest to a hard counter that caldari have, though again that weapon is tuned for range. If you really want a caldari weapon meant for cqc pick up the nova knife. The point I was trying to make is that looking for hard equipment counters is dumb, the way to fight is to look at the situations, figure out how to fight the tactics you want to counter, and fitting equipment for that. In other words the counter to the shotgun is not getting caught in optimal range... you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.11.26 00:25:00 - [115] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: So what is a Caldari fighter to do to counter all these ridiculous tactics? Other than leave, that is... There is an obvious middle ground solution: In order to fight best for your chosen faction, use the best and right tools for every situation. Be flexible. Use the whole spectrum of the gear available. (practical hint: flaylock is very good against scouts, extremely good vs fast / heavily damped ones) Again, you've missed the central point of my post. I'm trying to find the best ways to use CALDARI weapons against the other races. It appears that even from CCP, there is no answer to this. Because you are asking the wrong question. But I'm gonna answer it anyways: Use flaylock to counter the mentioned shotgun scouts. It is a rocket, a sort of missile. In space Caldaris are one of those who specialise in them. KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading. Search "KEROSKIN" for list of skins for sale!
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.11.26 00:29:00 - [116] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Using tools manufactured ONLY by corporations originated in on of the four major empires IS a role playing choice. (and not even a well reasoned one as: 1. Mercs want to win at any cost and are 'international' 2. Hardly any Eve NPC corporation is limited to it's original empire, example: Even Imperial Armaments have factories in Minmatar space) It's not a role-playing choice. It's an acknowledgement of something that CCP has fundamentally missed. Each race's suits will have been optimised for that race's weaponry. To think otherwise is ridiculous. CCP has dropped the ball in not making this game correct and reasonable. From the underlined part of your post, we entered the world of imagination, speculating in background lore. Therefore, role-play. In that world, I can't prove you wrong and you can't prove me wrong. It is no use to argue, for either of us. KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading. Search "KEROSKIN" for list of skins for sale!
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 21	Posted - 2015.11.26 00:39:00 - [117] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Using tools manufactured ONLY by corporations originated in on of the four major empires IS a role playing choice. (and not even a well reasoned one as: 1. Mercs want to win at any cost and are 'international' 2. Hardly any Eve NPC corporation is limited to it's original empire, example: Even Imperial Armaments have factories in Minmatar space) It's not a role-playing choice. It's an acknowledgement of something that CCP has fundamentally missed. Each race's suits will have been optimised for that race's weaponry. To think otherwise is ridiculous. CCP has dropped the ball in not making this game correct and reasonable. From the underlined part of your post, we entered the world of imagination, speculating in background lore. Therefore, role-play. In that world, I can't prove you wrong and you can't prove me wrong. It is no use to argue, for either of us. That's not strictly true Alena. It is a choice and it is a choice my Dust 514 corporation the Praetoriani Classiarii Templares as well as the greater alliance PIE Inc chooses to make. That choice being that we only make of Amarrian dropsuits and weapons except when no such other examples of that dropsuit or weapon exist. Moreover we do not wear any SKIN that represent a faction other that the Amarr Empire or one of its Heir Houses. This extends to and is especially important when considering the inclusion of Blood Raider suits in Dust 514 being available to Amarr Dropsuits. For example- PCLAS players are not allowed to wear Caldari, Minmatar, or Gallentean Dropsuits. They are encouraged to use Scrambler Rifles and Laser Rifles as primary weapons and Scrambler Pistols as secondary weapons though they are allowed to use the following: Swarm Launchers, Heavy Machineguns, Magsec SMG, and other weapon examples that are not present in the Amarrian line up that confer a tactical edge. We also employ both Shield and Armour Vehicles because that present no such Amarr vehicles exist. While this may seem like unnecessary handicaps I find them to be the opposite. In doing so we've proved in FW over the past 2.5 years that we are very capable of being overwhelmingly dominant and competitive using a small assortment of assets. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Taskanoss Abstract Requiem 113	Posted - 2015.11.26 01:03:00 - [118] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Ahkhomi Cypher wrote: So we gonna act like assault rail rifle and bolt pistol on a Calass not strong as **** right now? No, I'm not saying that, although there would be others who disagree with you. I'm saying that as Caldari, I have no counter to something like the jumpy cloaky shotty scout. That's not a Caldari setup, so I don't use it. Others would probably have the same complaint about your Calass with ARR and BP. But most would then just train them and use them. FOTM. I hate it. There is nothing Caldari can do to fight with the same sort of abandon as a shotty scout, firing shots left right and centre, knowing that every third or fourth shot is going to hit, and I'll be toast. And the only weapon Caldari use that has anything like the stopping power of a shotgun is the bolt pistol - a handgun... Yeah, that makes sense. So I try to stay out of the way of shotty scouts and stick to Caldari fighting styles, trying to make the best of them. Your counter is called a squad. GÇ£Nothing external to you has any power over you.GÇ¥
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution 14	Posted - 2015.11.26 01:23:00 - [119] - Quote GM Archduke wrote: Ahoy! Nothing good comes from willingly limiting yourself in any way, not in life and not in any games, not just DUST 514. Having a role-playing outlook on the game is cool, and being loyal to one faction to the point of only using equipment related to that faction is an interesting way of playing, but you sacrifice being versatile in order to do so. This is your choice, you could train any Skills and use any weapons, unlike some other games where race and bloodline or a character class actually limit your choices in game. Or you can play nothing but racial minmatar and laugh at your own versatility. Armor, Shields, doesn't matter. Even Cal Assaults drop to a damage modded Six Kin Re-Re-Re-Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_; You never just leave Dust. You story will last forever.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 149	Posted - 2015.11.26 01:57:00 - [120] - Quote korrah silain wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: korrah silain wrote: XD the fact you are describing the shotgun as op, as well as this belief that you cannot become "uber" good on multiple weapon platforms betrays your scrubbiness. You are misinterpreting the art of war. Dominance doesn't come from the best weapon, or decline handling of a single weapon, but using the correct wreapon in the correct way. The shotgun, for example, is hardly op, it requires an ability to close distance and employ it on your terms. This is the key to combat-engaging on favorable terms. The thing about the assault class of rifles is they are designed to be very flexible, reaching out to a good distance while remaining somewhat effective in cqc, however weapons that are specialized for aa given situation (like the shitgun) will outclass them in that situation, because they are specialized-not op. So taking your example of "op" weapons the caldari absolutely have a rival to the shotgun in the standard rail rifle. Long range, heavy damage, and excellent accuracy combine to make for a nasty long range kill machine, the best counter to which is to close distance. Its all situational, and that is why I never specialize. Basically your entire premise of "op" weapons is flawed, as well as your perspextive of how battles are conducted. Meditate on this young warrior Unfortunately, it is you who are misinterpreting. you've completely missed what I'm on about. I'm doing this as almost an intellectual exercise, not an exercise in what weapon to use, or how to use it, or what to train, etc, etc. As for scrubbiness, what exactly does that mean? To me, scrubbiness is using anything in the game that you think will give you an edge, regardless of whether it's appropriate or not. I'm staying as far away from that definition of scrubbiness as I possibly can. Do you have another definition, if so please enlighten me. Throughout this entire thread I've repeated stated that my problem is that I could not see a COUNTER to the shotgun, in up close and personal CQC. There is only one that I am trained in, as far as I can see - the Bolt Pistol. The Rail Rifle simply doesn't cut it because it's a range weapon, where the Bolt Pistol is an up-close high alpha weapon. I'm not talking about range weapons, only extremely close range ones. Scrubbiness would be whining that something is op without taking into account the fact that it is a weapon specialized for the given situation you are complaining about. As for direct counter to cqc...well why should there even be one? With asset limits being what they are I see no problem with having only one specialized weapon for each broad situation. Another, better answer that I was getting to is that gameplay doesn't boil down to equipment alone. Having trouble with shotgunners? Back peddal while strafing quickly. You will mitigate damage due to range, and the fact that to do real damage most of the spread needs to hit. The bolt pistol is not and never will be a cqc match for the shotgun but that's because it has great range and is a long range weapon. You are again misinterpreting weapon roles. The assault rail rifle is the closest to a hard counter that caldari have, though again that weapon is tuned for range. If you really want a caldari weapon meant for cqc pick up the nova knife. The point I was trying to make is that looking for hard equipment counters is dumb, the way to fight is to look at the situations, figure out how to fight the tactics you want to counter, and fitting equipment for that. In other words the counter to the shotgun is not getting caught in optimal range... Who's whining?! I'm asking what the counter is. Not what an equivalent weapon is, or why there has to be a shotgun in the first place. I'm asking what the counter is. And reading what you have to say, there is none. That's fine, it's exactly as I thought. Not getting caught in optimal range is NOT a counter, it's a mitigation, or avoidance.

Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 149	Posted - 2015.11.26 01:59:00 - [121] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: So what is a Caldari fighter to do to counter all these ridiculous tactics? Other than leave, that is... There is an obvious middle ground solution: In order to fight best for your chosen faction, use the best and right tools for every situation. Be flexible. Use the whole spectrum of the gear available. (practical hint: flaylock is very good against scouts, extremely good vs fast / heavily damped ones) Again, you've missed the central point of my post. I'm trying to find the best ways to use CALDARI weapons against the other races. It appears that even from CCP, there is no answer to this. Because you are asking the wrong question. But I'm gonna answer it anyways: Use flaylock to counter the mentioned shotgun scouts. It is a rocket, a sort of missile. In space Caldaris are one of those who specialise in them. Yes, but the flaylock is NOT a Caldari weapon, and I'm not training it. I don't know how many times I have to repeat this. It's OK for you to think that's ridiculous but it's a given, so there's no point in continually saying this weapon or that weapon or whatever equipment, if it's not Caldari.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.11.26 02:01:00 - [122] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: But I'm gonna answer it anyways: Use flaylock to counter the mentioned shotgun scouts. It is a rocket, a sort of missile. In space Caldaris are one of those who specialise in them. Yes, but the flaylock is NOT a Caldari weapon, and I'm not training it. I don't know how many times I have to repeat this. It's OK for you to think that's ridiculous but it's a given, so there's no point in continually saying this weapon or that weapon or whatever equipment, if it's not Caldari. But if we stick to lore, it IS a rocket weapon KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading. Search "KEROSKIN" for list of skins for sale!
Operative 1174 Uuali True Companion Planetary Requisitions 1	Posted - 2015.11.26 02:12:00 - [123] - Quote Yes, every suit is crap against a shotgun; but I have had greater success against them on a cal assault suit because in addition to not being weighted down by armor mods and generally more maneuverable, I use one enhanced myo to get a normal albeit bigger jump to hop side to side and toward and therefore past the scout. Then I can turn around and fire. CCP logic GÇô We fix what doesn't need breaking.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 21	Posted - 2015.11.26 02:14:00 - [124] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: So what is a Caldari fighter to do to counter all these ridiculous tactics? Other than leave, that is... There is an obvious middle ground solution: In order to fight best for your chosen faction, use the best and right tools for every situation. Be flexible. Use the whole spectrum of the gear available. (practical hint: flaylock is very good against scouts, extremely good vs fast / heavily damped ones) Again, you've missed the central point of my post. I'm trying to find the best ways to use CALDARI weapons against the other races. It appears that even from CCP, there is no answer to this. Because you are asking the wrong question. But I'm gonna answer it anyways: Use flaylock to counter the mentioned shotgun scouts. It is a rocket, a sort of missile. In space Caldaris are one of those who specialise in them. Yes, but the flaylock is NOT a Caldari weapon, and I'm not training it. I don't know how many times I have to repeat this. It's OK for you to think that's ridiculous but it's a given, so there's no point in continually saying this weapon or that weapon or whatever equipment, if it's not Caldari. The only advice I can give to you as a long time player and as an HAV pilot who will never get their racial HAV. Get over it because we aren't getting additional content no matter how much we want it. Since you are only using Caldari Gear your only options are to develop a better situational awareness or fit your suits in attempt to catch shotgunners on radar before they can take advantage of their close range. Perhaps practice more with Magsec SMGs. They're supposed to have great RoF and DPS equal to a Rail Rifle. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 149	Posted - 2015.11.26 03:39:00 - [125] - Quote True Adamance wrote: The only advice I can give to you as a long time player and as an HAV pilot who will never get their racial HAV. Get over it because we aren't getting additional content no matter how much we want it. Since you are only using Caldari Gear your only options are to develop a better situational awareness or fit your suits in attempt to catch shotgunners on radar before they can take advantage of their close range. Perhaps practice more with Magsec SMGs. They're supposed to have great RoF and DPS equal to a Rail Rifle. Thanks for that! Yes, I rather like the magsec myself. I've seen it described as a mini ARR, which to my mind is exactly what it is. As a scout I don't carry one because the bolt pistol is the high-alpha weapon I need for surprise attacks, but I have one on all my custom Assault suits, and even on occasion swap out the bolt pistol that comes with the Rasetsu. Regardless, since I initially posted this thread, I have actually used the bolt pistol on a shotgun scout and one-shotted them, so I know that they work. It wasn't even a head shot, so they were clearly paper thin. Thanks for giving me a good answer. I will have to work on the radar to see them but I already run at least two precision enhancers on my scout suit and they usually don't show up on that.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 149	Posted - 2015.11.26 03:43:00 - [126] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: But I'm gonna answer it anyways: Use flaylock to counter the mentioned shotgun scouts. It is a rocket, a sort of missile. In space Caldaris are one of those who specialise in them. Yes, but the flaylock is NOT a Caldari weapon, and I'm not training it. I don't know how many times I have to repeat this. It's OK for you to think that's ridiculous but it's a given, so there's no point in continually saying this weapon or that weapon or whatever equipment, if it's not Caldari. But if we stick to lore, it IS a rocket weapon Yep, clearly that's true, however it's still not a weapon for which there are any Caldari suits with bonuses. In any case, were I to train it, it would delay my other training, which is after all the point of focusing my training on Caldari only in the first place.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 149	Posted - 2015.11.26 03:44:00 - [127] - Quote Operative 1174 Uuali wrote: Yes, every suit is crap against a shotgun; but I have had greater success against them on a cal assault suit because in addition to not being weighted down by armor mods and generally more maneuverable, I use one enhanced myo to get a normal albeit bigger jump to hop side to side and toward and therefore past the scout. Then I can turn around and fire. Ah, that sounds reasonable. Use their own tactics against them! ;)
2Berries Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 1	Posted - 2015.11.26 05:30:00 - [128] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: I think a rail rifle scout could work. Use the cloak along with low profile and mobility to perform a wide flank. Hit the enemy in the back from range. If they shoot back, move. You will have distracted them, which is very helpful for your team pushing from the front. Cloak up and escape when they come for you. Carry knives as a sidearm for stealth CQC. I've done this with a Gal scout on the bridge map in domination. Was pretty effective. The Caldari scout IS a rail rifle scout! That's the primary weapon on a Hawk Scout BPO. And the bolt pistol is the secondary weapon, but from what I can see, it's actually more the primary because of the two it's the high-alpha weapon. For those that don't know the layout of a Caldari Hawk Scout, it's RR, BP, APEX cloak, scanner, locus grenade, two basic shield extenders, two precision enhancers, a profile dampener and a range enhancer. I usually swap out the range enhancer for a profile dampener and beef up everything except the actual weapons which are fine for my needs. From what I see both the RR and BP are primarily range weapons, but the BP works best for me at point blank range in a stealth attack. I like your ideas of using distraction from range. I will try that. Thanks. Switch up the bp for a magsec, it compliments the rr well. Pounding on people from the peripherals is awesome, especially when your team is right in front of them. Evening Boys, Hows the water?
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 150	Posted - 2015.11.26 11:28:00 - [129] - Quote 2Berries wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: I think a rail rifle scout could work. Use the cloak along with low profile and mobility to perform a wide flank. Hit the enemy in the back from range. If they shoot back, move. You will have distracted them, which is very helpful for your team pushing from the front. Cloak up and escape when they come for you. Carry knives as a sidearm for stealth CQC. I've done this with a Gal scout on the bridge map in domination. Was pretty effective. The Caldari scout IS a rail rifle scout! That's the primary weapon on a Hawk Scout BPO. And the bolt pistol is the secondary weapon, but from what I can see, it's actually more the primary because of the two it's the high-alpha weapon. For those that don't know the layout of a Caldari Hawk Scout, it's RR, BP, APEX cloak, scanner, locus grenade, two basic shield extenders, two precision enhancers, a profile dampener and a range enhancer. I usually swap out the range enhancer for a profile dampener and beef up everything except the actual weapons which are fine for my needs. From what I see both the RR and BP are primarily range weapons, but the BP works best for me at point blank range in a stealth attack. I like your ideas of using distraction from range. I will try that. Thanks. Switch up the bp for a magsec, it compliments the rr well. Pounding on people from the peripherals is awesome, especially when your team is right in front of them. I'm liking the magsec more and more all the time! On my Rasetsu, I like to switch up the BP for the ADV magsec and use it as an ARR for short to mid range, keeping the RR for longer ranges. The charge time on the RR is ridiculous and deadly in CQC, but is almost nonexistent with the magsec. Many is the time I've found myself fighting with the magsec as my primary weapon in close combat.
Bradric Banewolf Titans of Phoenix Damage LLC 1	Posted - 2015.11.26 17:11:00 - [130] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: No one has a counter to the shotgun scout. If it gets the drop on you, 9/10 times you will die. Don't make this an argument that caldari have no way to stop them when the truth is it is hard for everyone to do. This If it jumps it's hard to hit/stop/etc. CCP, in their infinite wisdom, decided to make one mod do two things?! It's now the most abused mod in the game?! They didn't test hit detection, since they already had hit detection issues before this. They didn't bother to consider certain limitations to this super jumpy punchy bs?! They just threw it out there like they always do smh?! The fix you ask? Simple! Limit the amount of myos that can be applied! "but they did that?!" I know, to 3 mods on any suit with 3 slots smh?! Instead limit assaults, mandos, logies, and sentinels to one myo! The original idea for this was so scouts can reach areas previously unreachable by ground troops. Before only dropships could place high links, which I had no problem with... Then CCP, looking for another gimmick, decided to let players jump high to reach higher areas. It spun into this garbage we have now?! Assaults taking dmg just leaps into the air knowing console controller players can't track them and hit detection is broken smh?! Scouts, already hard to hit, can now just leap off in any direction to get in a good shotgun position. Heavies(cmdos and sents) ...... lmao hahahahaha.... oooh I can't breath lol! It makes so little sense lmao! They're jumping lol o.0 smh?! Only scouts, who need the mobility and versatility to be scouts and do scout sh*t, should be allowed to use more than one myo. For your issue I suggest.... well hell idk what to suggest lol! Hell I can't hit most of the speedy, jumpy, female suits either lol! Hit detection on these types of fits is non existant?! Add KB/M and lag, and they become invincible. CCP has alot of fixing to do to this game, yet they waste their resources on events and gimmicks?! Instead of just fixing the issues smh?! They think the playerbase wants events and gimmicks, bpos and FOTM. Really we just want the game to 1st work properly. 2nd NO LAG! 3rd if you can't do this on PS3 port the game to a system where you can! "Anybody order chaos?"

Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 151	Posted - 2015.11.27 22:13:00 - [131] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: No one has a counter to the shotgun scout. If it gets the drop on you, 9/10 times you will die. Don't make this an argument that caldari have no way to stop them when the truth is it is hard for everyone to do. This If it jumps it's hard to hit/stop/etc. CCP, in their infinite wisdom, decided to make one mod do two things?! It's now the most abused mod in the game?! They didn't test hit detection, since they already had hit detection issues before this. They didn't bother to consider certain limitations to this super jumpy punchy bs?! They just threw it out there like they always do smh?! The fix you ask? Simple! Limit the amount of myos that can be applied! "but they did that?!" I know, to 3 mods on any suit with 3 slots smh?! Instead limit assaults, mandos, logies, and sentinels to one myo! The original idea for this was so scouts can reach areas previously unreachable by ground troops. Before only dropships could place high links, which I had no problem with... Then CCP, looking for another gimmick, decided to let players jump high to reach higher areas. It spun into this garbage we have now?! Assaults taking dmg just leaps into the air knowing console controller players can't track them and hit detection is broken smh?! Scouts, already hard to hit, can now just leap off in any direction to get in a good shotgun position. Heavies(cmdos and sents) ...... lmao hahahahaha.... oooh I can't breath lol! It makes so little sense lmao! They're jumping lol o.0 smh?! Only scouts, who need the mobility and versatility to be scouts and do scout sh*t, should be allowed to use more than one myo. For your issue I suggest.... well hell idk what to suggest lol! Hell I can't hit most of the speedy, jumpy, female suits either lol! Hit detection on these types of fits is non existant?! Add KB/M and lag, and they become invincible. CCP has alot of fixing to do to this game, yet they waste their resources on events and gimmicks?! Instead of just fixing the issues smh?! They think the playerbase wants events and gimmicks, bpos and FOTM. Really we just want the game to 1st work properly. 2nd NO LAG! 3rd if you can't do this on PS3 port the game to a system where you can! I think that CCP itself wants events and gimmick, bpos and FOTM. That's the way they and CPM appear to think. The playerbase? Who are they? It's a free to play, pay to win game. Most of the free to players are not going to matter, as whether or not they're playing won't change CCP's bottom line. The pay to winners are the ones who would make a difference, but as they are represented (apparently) by CPM, presumably the game is already going in the "right" direction. Yes, myos are ridiculous. Jumpy heavies are just ridiculous. CCP has broken their own rule by implementing something so broken - never introduce anything without a counter. There is no counter for what they have done, and I can only think that this is because the representatives of the pay to winners want it that way. They could so easily fix this if they thought it was a problem. They can't be oblivious to how cracked it is, therefore they can't think it's a problem. With regard to lag, I'm afraid you are simply not going to get rid of that. There are people all over the world connected to the EvE universe servers, wherever they are. I for instance have to connect from Australia, and it doesn't really matter which battle server I connect to, there will be lag. The way the mechanics of the game work, the lag for both players in a 1v1 is combined, even if they are playing side-by-side on two consoles, but connecting to a server half a world away. Both players experience the simple physics of connection speeds, lines speeds, etc, limited by speed-of-light. Until we get quantum entangled communications this will always be a problem. I've had to come to grips with the fact that in many instances, if someone gets the drop on me, I will be dead, without a hope of a fight. I've seen people firing at where I was a second ago not where I am now, and they hit and kill me as if I was still back there. In many ways, it's quite ridiculous, but we're stuck with it. It probably works really well if you're both reasonably close to the battle server, but if you're half a world away, it's just impossible. So I choose playing styles which somewhat eliminate the effect of lag, scouting, sniping, hacking. Even the scouting where I actually kill someone is usually a surprise attack with them relatively stationary. There's just no point in trying to deal with the lag so I don't. There are some fundamental things which can't be immediately fixed and it's not reasonable to be wanting CCP to fix them, but there are plenty that they could fix if they wanted to...
dzizur Nos Nothi 1	Posted - 2016.01.15 08:31:00 - [132] - Quote need a squid shotgun?


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