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korrah silain
True Illuminate
173
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Posted - 2015.11.24 22:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:I am Caldari, I fight in Caldari suits with Caldari weapons. But there are weapons which are OP to which Caldari weapons and suits seem to have no answer.
One such weapon is the shotgun. It's not a Caldari weapon, so I don't use it, but what do I use to either counter it or emulate it? There's nothing right? Yes, there's the shotgun, if I were happy enough to use one but as I don't, that's not an option.
No doubt people will think it's ridiculous that I don't just train the shotgun and use it. Well, apart from anything else, I don't like the idea of training FOMT which is basicly what the shotty jumpy scout is. I run Caldari Scout myself, and won't stoop to such ridiculous behaviour.
Perhaps I should basicly accept that what I'm simply saying is this game has become ridiculous. Even in the short time I've been playing, I've seen it degenerate. Now it's just painful. But that's probably a discussion for another thread.
So what is a Caldari fighter to do to counter all these ridiculous tactics? Other than leave, that is...
The problem here is that you are using scouts inappropproblem. due to a scouts low armor, and ewar advantages, and speed it lends itself to a quick strike style of play. This only really works if you chose a weapon with high alpha to allow for decisive first strikes. Opening up with any rifle simply doesn't work well within the paradigm because doing so gives the opponent enough time to put you down in two shots. Unfortunately the only weapons with such capabilities are the shotgun, and nova knives.
In other words this isn't a racial weapon problem, its a problem with you trying to run scouts with assault combat doctrine. If you want to counter shotgunners invest in ewar, and an arr on a logi, or assault.
you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
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korrah silain
True Illuminate
173
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Posted - 2015.11.24 22:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:korrah silain wrote:[scouts] and ewar advantages lol. ewar scouts are OP.
If they play smart. Everything has a counter...
you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
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korrah silain
True Illuminate
175
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Posted - 2015.11.25 10:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Honestly, anyone playing exclusively with roleplaying limitations shouldn't take part in balance discussions. I disagree. They can contribute in how their racial weapons perform when fitted to the racial frames. Let's avoid "someone is different from me and therefore wrong" arguments please. I stand behind my strong and admittedly sentiment-awakening statement. At best those people are empty noise. At worst they are distorting the grand community feedback, calling for buffs for things that do not need it. An example following the exact same logic, yes an unlikely one but an extreme one for example's sake: "I claim that Caldari Heavies need a huge +300% EHP buff because they are so weak in point defence and cannot kill masses and suck solo. (I fail to mention in my post I use only forge guns because of faction role play reasons)."Now while cal sent might need some love and FG is a great AI-weapon, having people make those claims for distorted reasons would in turn distort the player feedback. You are right. People that play exclusively with roleplaying limitations obviously lack the mental fortitude to see past their own playstyles and self-interests. It is a well known fact that those fools put their own self-interests before everything else. I frequently see those borderline mentally-handicapped individuals make statements akin to the example you so graciously provided. The intellectual midgets obviously have no idea how their preferred racial gear may be balanced in relation to the other gear. How could they know if their Scrambler Rifle needs balancing, whether it is a buff, a nerf, or some newfangled combination of the two, if they only use it and go up against it frequently? Please, they need to pick up a Rail Rifle to see how the Scrambler Rifle is balanced! There is absolutely no way those moronic neckbeardy invalids could conceivably have anything worthwhile to say pertaining to matters of balance. It's either empty noise or a distortion of the entirety of community feedback. Nothing else. And Rattati&co? Those drooling buffoons are so obviously inept that they are unable to use a single one of their brain cells to filter out all the BS. Nope.
Nice strawman you built there.
you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
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korrah silain
True Illuminate
176
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Posted - 2015.11.25 19:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:postapo wastelander wrote:[quote=Alena Asakura]I am Caldari, I fight in Caldari suits with Caldari weapons. But there are weapons which are OP to which Caldari weapons and suits seem to have no answer.
One such weapon is the shotgun. It's not a Caldari weapon, so I don't use it, but what do I use to either counter it or emulate it? There's nothing right? Yes, there's the shotgun, if I were happy enough to use one but as I don't, that's not an option.
No doubt people will think it's ridiculous that I don't just train the shotgun and use it. Well, apart from anything else, I don't like the idea of training FOMT which is basicly what the shotty jumpy scout is. I run Caldari Scout myself, and won't stoop to such ridiculous behaviour.
Perhaps I should basicly accept that what I'm simply saying is this game has become ridiculous. Even in the short time I've been playing, I've seen it degenerate. Now it's just painful. But that's probably a discussion for another thread.
So what is a Caldari fighter to do to counter all these ridiculous tactics? Other than leave, that is... This is not issue of racial weaponary. Shotgun is OP in close range and it is how it should be. By my observation some tweaking ti range can be fix for this situation.
The point I'm making is, there is no similar Caldari weapon. My guess is CCP thinks if you want to use a weapon that's as OP as the shotgun, use the shotgun. I train exclusively Caldari weaponry because that's the way to get uber good at any given weapon class. If I take time out to train shotguns, I will have to delay being uber good at RR and ARR. I'm not saying I won't train it eventually, just not yet.
But back to my point, there's no light weapon based on railgun technology that's as OP as the shotgun. There's a sidearm that is - the bolt pistol is a railgun, and it's definitely OP for a handgun. But there's no light Caldari weapon that is.
The forge gun, of course, is OP, but you can't use those on a Scout Suit... :)[/qweapon]
XD the fact you are describing the shotgun as op, as well as this belief that you cannot become "uber" good on multiple weapon platforms betrays your scrubbiness.
You are misinterpreting the art of war. Dominance doesn't come from the best weapon, or decline handling of a single weapon, but using the correct wreapon in the correct way. The shotgun, for example, is hardly op, it requires an ability to close distance and employ it on your terms. This is the key to combat-engaging on favorable terms. The thing about the assault class of rifles is they are designed to be very flexible, reaching out to a good distance while remaining somewhat effective in cqc, however weapons that are specialized for aa given situation (like the shitgun) will outclass them in that situation, because they are specialized-not op.
So taking your example of "op" weapons the caldari absolutely have a rival to the shotgun in the standard rail rifle. Long range, heavy damage, and excellent accuracy combine to make for a nasty long range kill machine, the best counter to which is to close distance. Its all situational, and that is why I never specialize.
Basically your entire premise of "op" weapons is flawed, as well as your perspextive of how battles are conducted. Meditate on this young warrior
you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
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korrah silain
True Illuminate
181
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Posted - 2015.11.25 23:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:korrah silain wrote:XD the fact you are describing the shotgun as op, as well as this belief that you cannot become "uber" good on multiple weapon platforms betrays your scrubbiness.
You are misinterpreting the art of war. Dominance doesn't come from the best weapon, or decline handling of a single weapon, but using the correct wreapon in the correct way. The shotgun, for example, is hardly op, it requires an ability to close distance and employ it on your terms. This is the key to combat-engaging on favorable terms. The thing about the assault class of rifles is they are designed to be very flexible, reaching out to a good distance while remaining somewhat effective in cqc, however weapons that are specialized for aa given situation (like the shitgun) will outclass them in that situation, because they are specialized-not op.
So taking your example of "op" weapons the caldari absolutely have a rival to the shotgun in the standard rail rifle. Long range, heavy damage, and excellent accuracy combine to make for a nasty long range kill machine, the best counter to which is to close distance. Its all situational, and that is why I never specialize.
Basically your entire premise of "op" weapons is flawed, as well as your perspextive of how battles are conducted. Meditate on this young warrior Unfortunately, it is you who are misinterpreting. you've completely missed what I'm on about. I'm doing this as almost an intellectual exercise, not an exercise in what weapon to use, or how to use it, or what to train, etc, etc. As for scrubbiness, what exactly does that mean? To me, scrubbiness is using anything in the game that you think will give you an edge, regardless of whether it's appropriate or not. I'm staying as far away from that definition of scrubbiness as I possibly can. Do you have another definition, if so please enlighten me. Throughout this entire thread I've repeated stated that my problem is that I could not see a COUNTER to the shotgun, in up close and personal CQC. There is only one that I am trained in, as far as I can see - the Bolt Pistol. The Rail Rifle simply doesn't cut it because it's a range weapon, where the Bolt Pistol is an up-close high alpha weapon. I'm not talking about range weapons, only extremely close range ones.
Scrubbiness would be whining that something is op without taking into account the fact that it is a weapon specialized for the given situation you are complaining about. As for direct counter to cqc...well why should there even be one? With asset limits being what they are I see no problem with having only one specialized weapon for each broad situation. Another, better answer that I was getting to is that gameplay doesn't boil down to equipment alone. Having trouble with shotgunners? Back peddal while strafing quickly. You will mitigate damage due to range, and the fact that to do real damage most of the spread needs to hit. The bolt pistol is not and never will be a cqc match for the shotgun but that's because it has great range and is a long range weapon. You are again misinterpreting weapon roles. The assault rail rifle is the closest to a hard counter that caldari have, though again that weapon is tuned for range. If you really want a caldari weapon meant for cqc pick up the nova knife. The point I was trying to make is that looking for hard equipment counters is dumb, the way to fight is to look at the situations, figure out how to fight the tactics you want to counter, and fitting equipment for that.
In other words the counter to the shotgun is not getting caught in optimal range...
you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
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