lol. ewar scouts are OP.

I am Caldari, I fight in Caldari suits with Caldari weapons. But there are weapons which are OP to which Caldari weapons and suits seem to have no answer.

One such weapon is the shotgun. It's not a Caldari weapon, so I don't use it, but what do I use to either counter it or emulate it? There's nothing right? Yes, there's the shotgun, if I were happy enough to use one but as I don't, that's not an option.

No doubt people will think it's ridiculous that I don't just train the shotgun and use it. Well, apart from anything else, I don't like the idea of training FOMT which is basicly what the shotty jumpy scout is. I run Caldari Scout myself, and won't stoop to such ridiculous behaviour.

Perhaps I should basicly accept that what I'm simply saying is this game has become ridiculous. Even in the short time I've been playing, I've seen it degenerate. Now it's just painful. But that's probably a discussion for another thread.

So what is a Caldari fighter to do to counter all these ridiculous tactics? Other than leave, that is...

Ccp is simply favoring the gallente scums.

Ar is op. Shotty is op. And they dont get nerfed.

So yeah. Fu ck the ccp gallente alliance.

For the state! Ooorah!

I disagree. They can contribute in how their racial weapons perform when fitted to the racial frames.

Let's avoid "someone is different from me and therefore wrong" arguments please.

I do not see that like issue.
Main issue is there is still some weapons better than other.
And i mean honestly there sould be some global balance.
Without it we will still have here FoTM for example.
But right now i do not see issue here.
.
.
.

I stand behind my strong and admittedly sentiment-awakening statement.


At best those people are empty noise. At worst they are distorting the grand community feedback, calling for buffs for things that do not need it.


An example following the exact same logic, yes an unlikely one but an extreme one for example's sake:
"I claim that Caldari Heavies need a huge +300% EHP buff because they are so weak in point defence and cannot kill masses and suck solo. (I fail to mention in my post I use only forge guns because of faction role play reasons)."


Now while cal sent might need some love and FG is a great AI-weapon, having people make those claims for distorted reasons would in turn distort the player feedback.

I see, I was thinking more about how to counter them in a non-scout suit. Scouts are a bit different.

Have you considered using nova knives? Not good against shotguns, but a very effective piece of Caldari gear for CQC assassination. Very good on a stealthy scout as it's harder to hear than a shotgun and can kill enemies without starting a noisy firefight and alerting nearby enemies, especially if you can hit with double charged knives. Standard knives are bad, advanced are ok, proto are pretty good.

As for dealing with shotguns, you want to make sure you get the drop on them, not the other way around. Shoot them at range, the optimal range of a shotgun is only 4m, you want to engage them from at least 20m. In a scout suit, if a shotgunner sees you and you aren't confident you can kill them I recommend running away and hiding. You always want to be the person to initiate an attack, not the other way around.

I recommend fitting a dampener to reduce the chance of getting scanned either by active or passive scans. Very close range passive scans will likely still pick you up though, so beware of that.

This is not issue of racial weaponary.
Shotgun is OP in close range and it is how it should be.

By my observation some tweaking ti range can be fix for this situation.

Ahoy!

Nothing good comes from willingly limiting yourself in any way, not in life and not in any games, not just DUST 514. Having a role-playing outlook on the game is cool, and being loyal to one faction to the point of only using equipment related to that faction is an interesting way of playing, but you sacrifice being versatile in order to do so. This is your choice, you could train any Skills and use any weapons, unlike some other games where race and bloodline or a character class actually limit your choices in game.

I only fit racial weapons to racial dropsuits because the idea of a CR on an Amarr dropsuit causes my soul to hurt.

That being said, I will skill into a Minmatar dropsuit and fit a CR. Or a Gallente dropsuit to fit an AR.

That should be the way of things, imo.

There is an obvious middle ground solution:
In order to fight best for your chosen faction, use the best and right tools for every situation. Be flexible.
Use the whole spectrum of the gear available.



(practical hint: flaylock is very good against scouts, extremely good vs fast / heavily damped ones)

Wow!
I was just about to post the same!

Using tools manufactured ONLY by corporations originated in on of the four major empires IS a role playing choice.


(and not even a well reasoned one as: 1. Mercs want to win at any cost and are 'international' 2. Hardly any Eve NPC corporation is limited to it's original empire, example: Even Imperial Armaments have factories in Minmatar space)

I stand behind my strong and admittedly sentiment-awakening statement.


At best those people are empty noise. At worst they are distorting the grand community feedback, calling for buffs for things that do not need it.


An example following the exact same logic, yes an unlikely one but an extreme one for example's sake:
"I claim that Caldari Heavies need a huge +300% EHP buff because they are so weak in point defence and cannot kill masses and suck solo. (I fail to mention in my post I use only forge guns because of faction role play reasons)."


Now while cal sent might need some love and FG is a great AI-weapon, having people make those claims for distorted reasons would in turn distort the player feedback.

I disagree. They can contribute in how their racial weapons perform when fitted to the racial frames.

Let's avoid "someone is different from me and therefore wrong" arguments please.

You are right.

People that play exclusively with roleplaying limitations obviously lack the mental fortitude to see past their own playstyles and self-interests. It is a well known fact that those fools put their own self-interests before everything else.

I frequently see those borderline mentally-handicapped individuals make statements akin to the example you so graciously provided.

The intellectual midgets obviously have no idea how their preferred racial gear may be balanced in relation to the other gear. How could they know if their Scrambler Rifle needs balancing, whether it is a buff, a nerf, or some newfangled combination of the two, if they only use it and go up against it frequently? Please, they need to pick up a Rail Rifle to see how the Scrambler Rifle is balanced!

There is absolutely no way those moronic neckbeardy invalids could conceivably have anything worthwhile to say pertaining to matters of balance. It's either empty noise or a distortion of the entirety of community feedback. Nothing else.

And Rattati&co? Those drooling buffoons are so obviously inept that they are unable to use a single one of their brain cells to filter out all the BS. Nope.

Lots of players seem dismissive when folks tell them "This EVE or Dust-514 game? It's weird and different from any of your other stuff---I'm serious, Dude---if you go into it with the same old ideas you have from your other games, you're not going to like EVE---don't try it that way"...
It is hands-down the best advice anyone could give about these two games.
I saw this cool sketch illustrating the OUTRAGEOUSLY high learning curve of an Eve game versus some other MMOs. It was a hilarious picture, that is brutal and funny at the same time... and most hilarious of all was that, it was supposedly drawn by one of CCP's own staff.

The learning curve is steep on this game. If you don't hack the idea and the curve, you won't be "ruined" or anything,... but you will always be blaming some part of the game as being broken, or all wrong, or stupid... usually blaming the guns.
I'm not calling any of you stupid, scrubs or noobs for feeling that way... (that name-calling jazz is just anti-social tweenie rubbish, and a key part of Eve gameplay is effective social interaction between players). But I will say you are still stuck in same mistake about EVE. You're trying to push through this game with the same "gun is the tool" idea about combat. You haven't climbed the learning curve enough yet.

Combat in these two games is not about the weapons, it's about the procedure for tackling the opposition.
Racial in these two games does not mean "the gun shoots from far away". It means we (it's always about WE in Eve gaming) sterilize an area from just outside the enemy's range, and we cover each other extensively as we approach.
If you've ever watched and listened to an Eve-Online battle vid, you HEAR more lethal decisions and actions in the battle than you SEE the exact proto-weapon that's killing things. You realize it's that player's or team's action that just caused them to lose those three super-carriers.

"Racial" isn't a weapon design---it's the attack and defend style of the gang of players agrees to use in the match.

The Caldari "counter" to an opponent armed with a shotgun or similar instantaneously-up-close discharge gun, is to cover your companion at a distance with a standard rail rifle or missile-battery, while your companion walks up to the target in a heavily-tanked suit and relies on your protecting him if a shotgun tries to buck him
The counter is NOT a weapon in New Eden combat---it's an ACTION or co-op strategy.

That seems to be one of the things that make "Caldari" so hard to play successfully in FW... it seems founded way more on overlapping cooperation from your fellow Cald players, than the other races' combat methods (but that's just all open to theory and debate).

And I know... you're probably saying to yourself, "crap on all that co-op, teamplay rubbish you all spout, talking like those hippies from the 60's--- and you all are just boring me with your wacked-out insistence that this game so different from others---it's got the same danged guns as the other games, and I could hack this game easy if the game wasn't so broken--no rocket science at all!"

...And that's alright to think that way. You're thinking is wrong, but it's okay, Dust is cool enough to allow you to play it your way. You're just going to have these episodes of excruciating frustration as a result, that's all.

In all honesty, I don't see the problem staying Faction SUIT loyal, as I myself only use Gallente suits. However, you should probably skill into multi-faction technology (mods/equipment) because it will give you a better chance to counter any situation you come across. Then again, unless you have a good tactical mind to run Caldari at close/mid/long range I'd suggest maybe looking into at least one other faction suit. Not that I'm ragging on Caldari suits, however in CQC there is a stupid high chance that you will just die unless you have a lot of cover to pop behind.

I can get away with only running Gallente suits in ever situation save for tiptoeing through the tulips in an open field (if there are snipers or RR users). But even with the suits I use AR on my Assault, Shotty on Scout (sometimes TacAR), PLC and Burst on Commando (that's as far as I stick to racial guns ( I do it for the bonus' ). My Logi uses ACR and ARR and my Sentinel ofc uses an HMG.

I'd take a charge rail shotgun, similar to the charge Sniper but a shotgun

They always have been but the community was to busy chasing fotm to notice

As awesome as these are, I kind of wish we only had the weapons and suits from beta, and CCP used the extra RAM to make the game work better.

And the extra dev time to make the battles more meaningful in a connected war kind of way. Like choosing districts to attack in FW. Persistent wars in PC involving simultaneous battles on different maps, linked in some way. No attack - wait 24 hours, fight an instanced battle bs. More EVE connection. That kind of thing.

A mass driver makes scouts fly really good.

he3s right. take a look at me. im only skilled into gallente stuff. while you have problems with shotguns, i have problems wit rails at range outside of my ar range. open maps are not good for me, the same way closed maps arent good for you. its all racially balanced tbh to a certain point.

Ive been caldari since caldari caldaried....

Once i broke 60m sp though, i started to dabble in dopples.


I could infight in a caldari..
Or I could bust out the galass.

I can run fast in a caldari..
A minass runs faster.

I try to stand and deliver in my caldari..
But amass actually delivers like Jimmy Johns.


Just like I could fail trying with all those suits to kill people at 70+ meters (barring the lazor and sniper of course)
A mechanic will tell you: use the right tool for the right job.

Start with amarr, as an rp fan it was easy due to alliance. Then I got into the whole 'using enemy tech against the maker' kick.

*holds out a plate of cookies*

The real problem[s] with racial weapons are:

1) Lack of racial variants. No Assault Plasma Cannon. No Tactical Rail Rifle. No Assault Bolt Pistol...
2) Lack of racial weapon types. Were the Amarr AV weapon at? Or the Minmatar Sniper? Oh, that's right, NOWHERE!
3) Lack of consistency. Why the Assault HMG functions like a Breach weapon?
4) Lack of balance. Why the Assault Forge Gun render near-obsolete the other two Forge Gun variants?

The problem here is that you are using scouts inappropproblem. due to a scouts low armor, and ewar advantages, and speed it lends itself to a quick strike style of play. This only really works if you chose a weapon with high alpha to allow for decisive first strikes. Opening up with any rifle simply doesn't work well within the paradigm because doing so gives the opponent enough time to put you down in two shots. Unfortunately the only weapons with such capabilities are the shotgun, and nova knives.

In other words this isn't a racial weapon problem, its a problem with you trying to run scouts with assault combat doctrine. If you want to counter shotgunners invest in ewar, and an arr on a logi, or assault.