Not trying to be an ahole but no one cares. Caldari is the step child around here, I know that much. I remember CalLogi reigning. Forums moaned, CCP listened, and CalLogi were no more. I remember CalAss being dominant, rinse and repeat. Rail Rifles; rinse and repeat. CalSen; rinse and repeat.

Somebody will tell you some garbage about Cal being long range fighters, which is hilariously stupid when a RR's stability is terrible and the charge up time is long.

Everyone here is primarily Amarr or Gallente.

Don't know about EVE but Caldari suck in Dust

So we gonna act like assault rail rifle and bolt pistol on a Calass not strong as **** right now?

A pure Caldari suit is perfectly capable of dealing with shotguns. Sounds like you need some advice.

Firstly, the Caldari fighting style emphasises range. Therefore it is usually best to try to stay to reasonably open areas or high ground where you can best make use of your range advantage. You may need to accept that other racial gear will have an advantage in CQC combat. That's not to say Caldari can't fight at close range however, both ARRs and BPs are perfectly capable at close range combat.

Tips for dealing with shotgun scouts:
Keep an eye on flanks and rear.
Try to stay in more open areas.
Watch for the blue cloak shimmer.
Stay close to teammates.
Listen for the sound of a shotgun. As soon as you hear one being fired at a teammate retreat and turn around immediately (very important). In many cases you will be able to kill the scout before they escape or before they get any kills.
Carry a nanite injector (Caldari tech) and revive anyone who was victim to the scout attack, effectively nullifying their attempt.
Bolt pistols can often one shot scouts, or certainly two shot them.

Tips for dealing with Myo-jumping:
Most myo users are actually assaults. Myo scouts tend to have very low hp.
Most shotgun assaults can be scanned. Have someone in your team with a scanner and use the intel to intercept the assault before they get into shotgun range.
Again, Myo jumpers are much easier to hit at range, making Caldari gear great for dealing with them. Try to play as a team and defend each other against jumpers from range.

I see, I was thinking more about how to counter them in a non-scout suit. Scouts are a bit different.

Have you considered using nova knives? Not good against shotguns, but a very effective piece of Caldari gear for CQC assassination. Very good on a stealthy scout as it's harder to hear than a shotgun and can kill enemies without starting a noisy firefight and alerting nearby enemies, especially if you can hit with double charged knives. Standard knives are bad, advanced are ok, proto are pretty good.

As for dealing with shotguns, you want to make sure you get the drop on them, not the other way around. Shoot them at range, the optimal range of a shotgun is only 4m, you want to engage them from at least 20m. In a scout suit, if a shotgunner sees you and you aren't confident you can kill them I recommend running away and hiding. You always want to be the person to initiate an attack, not the other way around.

I recommend fitting a dampener to reduce the chance of getting scanned either by active or passive scans. Very close range passive scans will likely still pick you up though, so beware of that.

This is not issue of racial weaponary.
Shotgun is OP in close range and it is how it should be.

By my observation some tweaking ti range can be fix for this situation.

Ahoy!

Nothing good comes from willingly limiting yourself in any way, not in life and not in any games, not just DUST 514. Having a role-playing outlook on the game is cool, and being loyal to one faction to the point of only using equipment related to that faction is an interesting way of playing, but you sacrifice being versatile in order to do so. This is your choice, you could train any Skills and use any weapons, unlike some other games where race and bloodline or a character class actually limit your choices in game.

I only fit racial weapons to racial dropsuits because the idea of a CR on an Amarr dropsuit causes my soul to hurt.

That being said, I will skill into a Minmatar dropsuit and fit a CR. Or a Gallente dropsuit to fit an AR.

That should be the way of things, imo.

There is an obvious middle ground solution:
In order to fight best for your chosen faction, use the best and right tools for every situation. Be flexible.
Use the whole spectrum of the gear available.



(practical hint: flaylock is very good against scouts, extremely good vs fast / heavily damped ones)

Wow!
I was just about to post the same!

Using tools manufactured ONLY by corporations originated in on of the four major empires IS a role playing choice.


(and not even a well reasoned one as: 1. Mercs want to win at any cost and are 'international' 2. Hardly any Eve NPC corporation is limited to it's original empire, example: Even Imperial Armaments have factories in Minmatar space)

I disagree. They can contribute in how their racial weapons perform when fitted to the racial frames.

Let's avoid "someone is different from me and therefore wrong" arguments please.

Lots of players seem dismissive when folks tell them "This EVE or Dust-514 game? It's weird and different from any of your other stuff---I'm serious, Dude---if you go into it with the same old ideas you have from your other games, you're not going to like EVE---don't try it that way"...
It is hands-down the best advice anyone could give about these two games.
I saw this cool sketch illustrating the OUTRAGEOUSLY high learning curve of an Eve game versus some other MMOs. It was a hilarious picture, that is brutal and funny at the same time... and most hilarious of all was that, it was supposedly drawn by one of CCP's own staff.

The learning curve is steep on this game. If you don't hack the idea and the curve, you won't be "ruined" or anything,... but you will always be blaming some part of the game as being broken, or all wrong, or stupid... usually blaming the guns.
I'm not calling any of you stupid, scrubs or noobs for feeling that way... (that name-calling jazz is just anti-social tweenie rubbish, and a key part of Eve gameplay is effective social interaction between players). But I will say you are still stuck in same mistake about EVE. You're trying to push through this game with the same "gun is the tool" idea about combat. You haven't climbed the learning curve enough yet.

Combat in these two games is not about the weapons, it's about the procedure for tackling the opposition.
Racial in these two games does not mean "the gun shoots from far away". It means we (it's always about WE in Eve gaming) sterilize an area from just outside the enemy's range, and we cover each other extensively as we approach.
If you've ever watched and listened to an Eve-Online battle vid, you HEAR more lethal decisions and actions in the battle than you SEE the exact proto-weapon that's killing things. You realize it's that player's or team's action that just caused them to lose those three super-carriers.

"Racial" isn't a weapon design---it's the attack and defend style of the gang of players agrees to use in the match.

The Caldari "counter" to an opponent armed with a shotgun or similar instantaneously-up-close discharge gun, is to cover your companion at a distance with a standard rail rifle or missile-battery, while your companion walks up to the target in a heavily-tanked suit and relies on your protecting him if a shotgun tries to buck him
The counter is NOT a weapon in New Eden combat---it's an ACTION or co-op strategy.

That seems to be one of the things that make "Caldari" so hard to play successfully in FW... it seems founded way more on overlapping cooperation from your fellow Cald players, than the other races' combat methods (but that's just all open to theory and debate).

And I know... you're probably saying to yourself, "crap on all that co-op, teamplay rubbish you all spout, talking like those hippies from the 60's--- and you all are just boring me with your wacked-out insistence that this game so different from others---it's got the same danged guns as the other games, and I could hack this game easy if the game wasn't so broken--no rocket science at all!"

...And that's alright to think that way. You're thinking is wrong, but it's okay, Dust is cool enough to allow you to play it your way. You're just going to have these episodes of excruciating frustration as a result, that's all.

In all honesty, I don't see the problem staying Faction SUIT loyal, as I myself only use Gallente suits. However, you should probably skill into multi-faction technology (mods/equipment) because it will give you a better chance to counter any situation you come across. Then again, unless you have a good tactical mind to run Caldari at close/mid/long range I'd suggest maybe looking into at least one other faction suit. Not that I'm ragging on Caldari suits, however in CQC there is a stupid high chance that you will just die unless you have a lot of cover to pop behind.

I can get away with only running Gallente suits in ever situation save for tiptoeing through the tulips in an open field (if there are snipers or RR users). But even with the suits I use AR on my Assault, Shotty on Scout (sometimes TacAR), PLC and Burst on Commando (that's as far as I stick to racial guns ( I do it for the bonus' ). My Logi uses ACR and ARR and my Sentinel ofc uses an HMG.

I'd take a charge rail shotgun, similar to the charge Sniper but a shotgun

They always have been but the community was to busy chasing fotm to notice

As awesome as these are, I kind of wish we only had the weapons and suits from beta, and CCP used the extra RAM to make the game work better.

And the extra dev time to make the battles more meaningful in a connected war kind of way. Like choosing districts to attack in FW. Persistent wars in PC involving simultaneous battles on different maps, linked in some way. No attack - wait 24 hours, fight an instanced battle bs. More EVE connection. That kind of thing.

A mass driver makes scouts fly really good.

he3s right. take a look at me. im only skilled into gallente stuff. while you have problems with shotguns, i have problems wit rails at range outside of my ar range. open maps are not good for me, the same way closed maps arent good for you. its all racially balanced tbh to a certain point.

Ive been caldari since caldari caldaried....

Once i broke 60m sp though, i started to dabble in dopples.


I could infight in a caldari..
Or I could bust out the galass.

I can run fast in a caldari..
A minass runs faster.

I try to stand and deliver in my caldari..
But amass actually delivers like Jimmy Johns.


Just like I could fail trying with all those suits to kill people at 70+ meters (barring the lazor and sniper of course)
A mechanic will tell you: use the right tool for the right job.

Start with amarr, as an rp fan it was easy due to alliance. Then I got into the whole 'using enemy tech against the maker' kick.

*holds out a plate of cookies*

The real problem[s] with racial weapons are:

1) Lack of racial variants. No Assault Plasma Cannon. No Tactical Rail Rifle. No Assault Bolt Pistol...
2) Lack of racial weapon types. Were the Amarr AV weapon at? Or the Minmatar Sniper? Oh, that's right, NOWHERE!
3) Lack of consistency. Why the Assault HMG functions like a Breach weapon?
4) Lack of balance. Why the Assault Forge Gun render near-obsolete the other two Forge Gun variants?

The problem here is that you are using scouts inappropproblem. due to a scouts low armor, and ewar advantages, and speed it lends itself to a quick strike style of play. This only really works if you chose a weapon with high alpha to allow for decisive first strikes. Opening up with any rifle simply doesn't work well within the paradigm because doing so gives the opponent enough time to put you down in two shots. Unfortunately the only weapons with such capabilities are the shotgun, and nova knives.

In other words this isn't a racial weapon problem, its a problem with you trying to run scouts with assault combat doctrine. If you want to counter shotgunners invest in ewar, and an arr on a logi, or assault.

If your a cal scout worrying about shotgun scouts, more than likely gal, all you really need is a good scanner. You won't scan them directly but you'll get a margin of error, that should spur your situational awarness enough to look around and watch your back. Cal scouts work best from the margins moving in. If your getting hit from behind you may be moving too close. Only go for hacks when it is painfully obvious it's clear or theres enough blueberries around that you can fool yourself into thinking your safe.

Ccp is simply favoring the gallente scums.

Ar is op. Shotty is op. And they dont get nerfed.

So yeah. Fu ck the ccp gallente alliance.

For the state! Ooorah!

I think a rail rifle scout could work. Use the cloak along with low profile and mobility to perform a wide flank. Hit the enemy in the back from range. If they shoot back, move. You will have distracted them, which is very helpful for your team pushing from the front. Cloak up and escape when they come for you. Carry knives as a sidearm for stealth CQC.

I've done this with a Gal scout on the bridge map in domination. Was pretty effective.

ROFL. The ar got nerfed with uprising and has been garbage since, until recently, and is still garbage on anything but the galass.
The shotty has been nerfed down to the point that it pretty much can't be nerfed anymore without becoming a fool's weapon.

Remember, gallente light/assault tech is some of the oldest in the game, and probably has had more nerf/buff cycles than any other gear in the game.

Truth is, Caldari have always been the most OP, in eve and dust. The other races are just now catching up, and the caldari are screaming OP, when the other races have dealt with it for years. Congrats caldari, you now have a counter like the rest of us.

What you're missing is that the shotgun isn't OP.

A rail rifle has 19 times the optimal range of a shotgun. What do you think happens when you shoot a shotgun scout with a rail rifle outside of 15m? Either it takes cover immediately (assuming there's cover there) or it dies. Simple as that. What is the counter to a rail rifle 75m away if you are using a shotgun?

If we are talking about racial gear, what is the Gallente counter to a sniper 350m away? Sniper rifles are Caldari weapons.

It would be just as easy to claim the rail rifle's range is OP as it is to claim the shotgun's damage is. But that's missing the point.

There doesn't need to be direct parallel racial weapons, as different races are meant to use different strategies to fight each other. You don't need a Caldari shotgun, as Caldari are supposed to kill the shotgunner from outside shotgun range.

Also, nova knives are Caldari. Read the description, look at the design. Proto knives are developed by Ishikone.

Min scout, yeah that's right we took your butter forks and used them for our own!

That Scanner is gallente tech. Just sayin'.

Yep... Will do... I'll stab you later today mmmkay? I promise, you'll make a great supper.

Prolly undamped assaults and stuff... also uplinks are amarrian tech... you could put a nanohive or a needle on it those are cow dairy tech... That is if you're going to be a Caldari Elitist...

You get a like for wanting to train all suits and ships (good luck in EVE with that I can't even fathom how long it will take considering I've been training for almost two years to master the specific ships i want to use)

While I do believe not all mods are for all suits (specifically shields don't belong on a gallente suit imho) it is still a good idea to look into other mods being usable on your cal suit that maybe belong to another race just to give you the best chance of survivablity.

XD the fact you are describing the shotgun as op, as well as this belief that you cannot become "uber" good on multiple weapon platforms betrays your scrubbiness.

You are misinterpreting the art of war. Dominance doesn't come from the best weapon, or decline handling of a single weapon, but using the correct wreapon in the correct way. The shotgun, for example, is hardly op, it requires an ability to close distance and employ it on your terms. This is the key to combat-engaging on favorable terms. The thing about the assault class of rifles is they are designed to be very flexible, reaching out to a good distance while remaining somewhat effective in cqc, however weapons that are specialized for aa given situation (like the shitgun) will outclass them in that situation, because they are specialized-not op.
So taking your example of "op" weapons the caldari absolutely have a rival to the shotgun in the standard rail rifle. Long range, heavy damage, and excellent accuracy combine to make for a nasty long range kill machine, the best counter to which is to close distance. Its all situational, and that is why I never specialize.
Basically your entire premise of "op" weapons is flawed, as well as your perspextive of how battles are conducted. Meditate on this young warrior

Scrubbiness would be whining that something is op without taking into account the fact that it is a weapon specialized for the given situation you are complaining about. As for direct counter to cqc...well why should there even be one? With asset limits being what they are I see no problem with having only one specialized weapon for each broad situation. Another, better answer that I was getting to is that gameplay doesn't boil down to equipment alone. Having trouble with shotgunners? Back peddal while strafing quickly. You will mitigate damage due to range, and the fact that to do real damage most of the spread needs to hit. The bolt pistol is not and never will be a cqc match for the shotgun but that's because it has great range and is a long range weapon. You are again misinterpreting weapon roles. The assault rail rifle is the closest to a hard counter that caldari have, though again that weapon is tuned for range. If you really want a caldari weapon meant for cqc pick up the nova knife. The point I was trying to make is that looking for hard equipment counters is dumb, the way to fight is to look at the situations, figure out how to fight the tactics you want to counter, and fitting equipment for that.
In other words the counter to the shotgun is not getting caught in optimal range...

Because you are asking the wrong question.

But I'm gonna answer it anyways:
Use flaylock to counter the mentioned shotgun scouts. It is a rocket, a sort of missile. In space Caldaris are one of those who specialise in them.

The only advice I can give to you as a long time player and as an HAV pilot who will never get their racial HAV.

Get over it because we aren't getting additional content no matter how much we want it. Since you are only using Caldari Gear your only options are to develop a better situational awareness or fit your suits in attempt to catch shotgunners on radar before they can take advantage of their close range. Perhaps practice more with Magsec SMGs.

They're supposed to have great RoF and DPS equal to a Rail Rifle.

But if we stick to lore, it IS a rocket weapon

Yes, every suit is crap against a shotgun; but I have had greater success against them on a cal assault suit because in addition to not being weighted down by armor mods and generally more maneuverable, I use one enhanced myo to get a normal albeit bigger jump to hop side to side and toward and therefore past the scout. Then I can turn around and fire.

Switch up the bp for a magsec, it compliments the rr well. Pounding on people from the peripherals is awesome, especially when your team is right in front of them.

This

If it jumps it's hard to hit/stop/etc.

CCP, in their infinite wisdom, decided to make one mod do two things?! It's now the most abused mod in the game?! They didn't test hit detection, since they already had hit detection issues before this. They didn't bother to consider certain limitations to this super jumpy punchy bs?! They just threw it out there like they always do smh?!

The fix you ask?

Simple! Limit the amount of myos that can be applied! "but they did that?!" I know, to 3 mods on any suit with 3 slots smh?! Instead limit assaults, mandos, logies, and sentinels to one myo!

The original idea for this was so scouts can reach areas previously unreachable by ground troops. Before only dropships could place high links, which I had no problem with... Then CCP, looking for another gimmick, decided to let players jump high to reach higher areas. It spun into this garbage we have now?!

Assaults taking dmg just leaps into the air knowing console controller players can't track them and hit detection is broken smh?! Scouts, already hard to hit, can now just leap off in any direction to get in a good shotgun position. Heavies(cmdos and sents) ...... lmao hahahahaha.... oooh I can't breath lol! It makes so little sense lmao! They're jumping lol o.0 smh?!

Only scouts, who need the mobility and versatility to be scouts and do scout sh*t, should be allowed to use more than one myo.

For your issue I suggest.... well hell idk what to suggest lol! Hell I can't hit most of the speedy, jumpy, female suits either lol! Hit detection on these types of fits is non existant?! Add KB/M and lag, and they become invincible.

CCP has alot of fixing to do to this game, yet they waste their resources on events and gimmicks?! Instead of just fixing the issues smh?! They think the playerbase wants events and gimmicks, bpos and FOTM. Really we just want the game to 1st work properly. 2nd NO LAG! 3rd if you can't do this on PS3 port the game to a system where you can!