DUST Search - The problem with racial weapons...

Alena Asakura wrote:

Thanks for that. Yes some good points here.

I do listen to shotgun sounds nearby, and have learnt to be wary of them. Yes, more open areas are good for Caldari - I function best at range, ADS on either a RR or SR. Even the ARR sometimes, although that's not so hot with iron sights.

I've just been thinking about counters to shotgun scout and yes, the BP would seem to be that counter. Very high damage for a handgun, and I've used it often on uncloaking next to some hapless person hacking an installation, or better yet, at point blank range on a sniper who doesn't even know I'm there. I run Caldari scout most of the time, so this is par for the course for me.

I'm wondering if it's possible to hit a jumping scout in mid air with the BP. It should be possible to figure out the trajectory and hit them mid flight. I'll just have to practice... :)

As for teams, I don't get to play in squads most of the time, and as a scout I don't get to at all, even if I start the match in a squad. I do believe that fighting as squads in this game is the most effective, but I don't get to do that much. So for me, it's a matter of trying to find counters as a solo fighter.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.11.24 11:44:00 - [1] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: I am Caldari, I fight in Caldari suits with Caldari weapons. But there are weapons which are OP to which Caldari weapons and suits seem to have no answer. One such weapon is the shotgun. It's not a Caldari weapon, so I don't use it, but what do I use to either counter it or emulate it? There's nothing right? Yes, there's the shotgun, if I were happy enough to use one but as I don't, that's not an option. No doubt people will think it's ridiculous that I don't just train the shotgun and use it. Well, apart from anything else, I don't like the idea of training FOMT which is basicly what the shotty jumpy scout is. I run Caldari Scout myself, and won't stoop to such ridiculous behaviour. Perhaps I should basicly accept that what I'm simply saying is this game has become ridiculous. Even in the short time I've been playing, I've seen it degenerate. Now it's just painful. But that's probably a discussion for another thread. So what is a Caldari fighter to do to counter all these ridiculous tactics? Other than leave, that is... A pure Caldari suit is perfectly capable of dealing with shotguns. Sounds like you need some advice. Firstly, the Caldari fighting style emphasises range. Therefore it is usually best to try to stay to reasonably open areas or high ground where you can best make use of your range advantage. You may need to accept that other racial gear will have an advantage in CQC combat. That's not to say Caldari can't fight at close range however, both ARRs and BPs are perfectly capable at close range combat. Tips for dealing with shotgun scouts: Keep an eye on flanks and rear. Try to stay in more open areas. Watch for the blue cloak shimmer. Stay close to teammates. Listen for the sound of a shotgun. As soon as you hear one being fired at a teammate retreat and turn around immediately (very important). In many cases you will be able to kill the scout before they escape or before they get any kills. Carry a nanite injector (Caldari tech) and revive anyone who was victim to the scout attack, effectively nullifying their attempt. Bolt pistols can often one shot scouts, or certainly two shot them. Tips for dealing with Myo-jumping: Most myo users are actually assaults. Myo scouts tend to have very low hp. Most shotgun assaults can be scanned. Have someone in your team with a scanner and use the intel to intercept the assault before they get into shotgun range. Again, Myo jumpers are much easier to hit at range, making Caldari gear great for dealing with them. Try to play as a team and defend each other against jumpers from range.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.11.24 11:47:00 - [2] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: No one has a counter to the shotgun scout. If it gets the drop on you, 9/10 times you will die. Don't make this an argument that caldari have no way to stop them when the truth is it is hard for everyone to do. If a shotgun scout kills a teammate I can usually kill the scout and revive my teammate. That's if they get the drop on someone.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.11.24 12:34:00 - [3] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Thanks for that. Yes some good points here. I do listen to shotgun sounds nearby, and have learnt to be wary of them. Yes, more open areas are good for Caldari - I function best at range, ADS on either a RR or SR. Even the ARR sometimes, although that's not so hot with iron sights. I've just been thinking about counters to shotgun scout and yes, the BP would seem to be that counter. Very high damage for a handgun, and I've used it often on uncloaking next to some hapless person hacking an installation, or better yet, at point blank range on a sniper who doesn't even know I'm there. I run Caldari scout most of the time, so this is par for the course for me. I'm wondering if it's possible to hit a jumping scout in mid air with the BP. It should be possible to figure out the trajectory and hit them mid flight. I'll just have to practice... :) As for teams, I don't get to play in squads most of the time, and as a scout I don't get to at all, even if I start the match in a squad. I do believe that fighting as squads in this game is the most effective, but I don't get to do that much. So for me, it's a matter of trying to find counters as a solo fighter. I see, I was thinking more about how to counter them in a non-scout suit. Scouts are a bit different. Have you considered using nova knives? Not good against shotguns, but a very effective piece of Caldari gear for CQC assassination. Very good on a stealthy scout as it's harder to hear than a shotgun and can kill enemies without starting a noisy firefight and alerting nearby enemies, especially if you can hit with double charged knives. Standard knives are bad, advanced are ok, proto are pretty good. As for dealing with shotguns, you want to make sure you get the drop on them, not the other way around. Shoot them at range, the optimal range of a shotgun is only 4m, you want to engage them from at least 20m. In a scout suit, if a shotgunner sees you and you aren't confident you can kill them I recommend running away and hiding. You always want to be the person to initiate an attack, not the other way around. I recommend fitting a dampener to reduce the chance of getting scanned either by active or passive scans. Very close range passive scans will likely still pick you up though, so beware of that.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.11.24 15:48:00 - [4] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: Ahkhomi Cypher wrote: So we gonna act like assault rail rifle and bolt pistol on a Calass not strong as ** right now? i disagree i feel rather that the cal suits hard counter amar suits have fallen off and made them seem op when in reality they are not. in fact amar still outshine caldari when it comes to ranged performance due to the rr kick ccp over nerfed the rr..not the arr...the rr its cqc strength is what needed a nerf kinda like how the scr's cqc strength needed a nerf... and with both ccp has over done it to say the least...lr out shines rr in every way...but it not really op..because its prime weakness is cqc...thats how the rr should be but ccp ** it up just like they **** up the scr i never was a big scr use or ascr user...thus i haven't noticed the caldari anything becoming op or the minmatar for that matter ... now bar galass...thats a whole nother matter but i digress The RR has almost no kick in ads. It was it's hip fire kick that was nerfed quite a long time ago. I find the laser and RR reasonably balanced at range. Laser is more powerful, but must be preheated and spends a lot of time reloading. I'd rather have a RR in close combat than a laser rifle. RRs are better than ScRs at range due to the ScRs kick and overheat. ScRs are good at close range however.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.11.24 17:17:00 - [5] - Quote postapo wastelander wrote: Devadander wrote: A caldari shotgun would be amazing though. Js Something what shooting magnetized slugs XD Yup sadly CCP cannot implement any of racial models :( One minutes for MIA technology :-¦( Vehicles 1.)weapons 2.)weapons 1.)vehicles 2.)vehicles Jeez how i want these in game too :(( *Three honorary shots to air As awesome as these are, I kind of wish we only had the weapons and suits from beta, and CCP used the extra RAM to make the game work better.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.11.24 17:27:00 - [6] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: it does not have to be preheated,,,,its far stronger than rr Laser rifle base dps = 212.5 Rail rifle base dps = 361.5 I'm not saying the laser is bad, but both the rail rifle and the laser rifle are excellent ranged weapons.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.11.24 23:41:00 - [7] - Quote I think a rail rifle scout could work. Use the cloak along with low profile and mobility to perform a wide flank. Hit the enemy in the back from range. If they shoot back, move. You will have distracted them, which is very helpful for your team pushing from the front. Cloak up and escape when they come for you. Carry knives as a sidearm for stealth CQC. I've done this with a Gal scout on the bridge map in domination. Was pretty effective.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.11.25 10:43:00 - [8] - Quote What you're missing is that the shotgun isn't OP. A rail rifle has 19 times the optimal range of a shotgun. What do you think happens when you shoot a shotgun scout with a rail rifle outside of 15m? Either it takes cover immediately (assuming there's cover there) or it dies. Simple as that. What is the counter to a rail rifle 75m away if you are using a shotgun? If we are talking about racial gear, what is the Gallente counter to a sniper 350m away? Sniper rifles are Caldari weapons. It would be just as easy to claim the rail rifle's range is OP as it is to claim the shotgun's damage is. But that's missing the point. There doesn't need to be direct parallel racial weapons, as different races are meant to use different strategies to fight each other. You don't need a Caldari shotgun, as Caldari are supposed to kill the shotgunner from outside shotgun range. Also, nova knives are Caldari. Read the description, look at the design. Proto knives are developed by Ishikone.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.11.25 11:36:00 - [9] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: GM Archduke wrote: Ahoy! Nothing good comes from willingly limiting yourself in any way, not in life and not in any games, not just DUST 514. Having a role-playing outlook on the game is cool, and being loyal to one faction to the point of only using equipment related to that faction is an interesting way of playing, but you sacrifice being versatile in order to do so. This is your choice, you could train any Skills and use any weapons, unlike some other games where race and bloodline or a character class actually limit your choices in game. he3s right. take a look at me. im only skilled into gallente stuff. while you have problems with shotguns, i have problems wit rails at range outside of my ar range. open maps are not good for me, the same way closed maps arent good for you. its all racially balanced tbh to a certain point. But the Gallente have Burst ARs. They have a scope do they not? Aren't they effectively a long-range AR? Burst AR optimal range = 50m. RR optimal range = 75m. So not really. A burst AR is still relatively short range. Even a tactical AR, which is meant to be the long range AR, only has an optimal range of 61m. But the rifles are deliberately quite similar, as they are all battle rifles.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.11.25 12:31:00 - [10] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: This thread was principally about how to deal with shotguns which ARE OP at extreme short range. Rail rifles can't do anything about a shotgun when they're right on you. The only weapon I run that can counter a shotty scout appears to be the bolt pistol. Ishukone developing the nova knives means nothing - they copy everything in sight! :) But seriously, if nova knives were Caldari tech, where are the suits with bonuses for them? Yes, and I'm saying Gallente weapons can't do anything about a rail rifle at optimal range. So there isn't a problem.