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Maximus Mobius Fatal Absolution 910	Posted - 2015.08.13 03:29:00 - [1] - Quote Do you know why we double or even triple stack armor hardeners? IT'S BECAUSE ANYTHING LESS AND WE'RE A PILE OF ROLLING SCRAP METAL!! I have been tanking since beta right before uprising and I can tell you this is the weakest tanks have ever been. At least before 1.7 we had complexity and modules and turret variation to help us combat the AV. Now we have only mlt,std,adv & pro turrets with no variation. And no mlt large turret missiles. AVers even have officer weapons and a less margin to miss with forge guns and even AHMGs are capable of destroying tanks. I remember tanking before 1.7 and we had an equal fighting ground. We had powerful active modules & turret variations and even my beloved scattered Ion cannon. Now we have jack sh*t in variation and we have almost no way to combat redline forge gunners besides luck. So shut up your 3 milita AV nades don't instantly blow up a hardened proto maddy. ALL HAIL MAXSON!! Multi-role Tanker Tanks and turrets supplied by Caldari Steel and Ishukone!! For The State!!
Louis Domi Louis Domi's Super Happy Fun Time 1	Posted - 2015.08.13 03:38:00 - [2] - Quote I say Nerf everything. AV HAV ABC TNT CBS. Buff ADS and bring back old vehicle/turret variants Bring back old flying LAVs
Maximus Mobius Fatal Absolution 911	Posted - 2015.08.13 03:40:00 - [3] - Quote Louis Domi wrote: I say Nerf everything. AV HAV ABC TNT CBS. Buff ADS and bring back old vehicle/turret variants I say actually put time into it and make it a level playing field. ALL HAIL MAXSON!! Multi-role Tanker Tanks and turrets supplied by Caldari Steel and Ishukone!! For The State!!
Louis Domi Louis Domi's Super Happy Fun Time 1	Posted - 2015.08.13 03:41:00 - [4] - Quote Maximus Mobius wrote: Louis Domi wrote: I say Nerf everything. AV HAV ABC TNT CBS. Buff ADS and bring back old vehicle/turret variants I say actually put time into it and make it a level playing field. Or....? Bring back old flying LAVs
Maximus Mobius Fatal Absolution 911	Posted - 2015.08.13 03:43:00 - [5] - Quote Louis Domi wrote: Maximus Mobius wrote: Louis Domi wrote: I say Nerf everything. AV HAV ABC TNT CBS. Buff ADS and bring back old vehicle/turret variants I say actually put time into it and make it a level playing field. Or....? Or what? ALL HAIL MAXSON!! Multi-role Tanker Tanks and turrets supplied by Caldari Steel and Ishukone!! For The State!!
Vegetation Monster G0DS AM0NG MEN The Empire of New Eden 330	Posted - 2015.08.13 03:52:00 - [6] - Quote Maximus Mobius wrote: Do you know why we double or even triple stack armor hardeners? IT'S BECAUSE ANYTHING LESS AND WE'RE A PILE OF ROLLING SCRAP METAL!! I have been tanking since beta right before uprising and I can tell you this is the weakest tanks have ever been. At least before 1.7 we had complexity and modules and turret variation to help us combat the AV. Now we have only mlt,std,adv & pro turrets with no variation. And no mlt large turret missiles. AVers even have officer weapons and a less margin to miss with forge guns and even AHMGs are capable of destroying tanks. I remember tanking before 1.7 and we had an equal fighting ground. We had powerful active modules & turret variations and even my beloved scattered Ion cannon. Now we have jack sh*t in variation and we have almost no way to combat redline forge gunners besides luck. So shut up your 3 milita AV nades don't instantly blow up a hardened proto maddy. ADS is already a flying expensive coffin. At least let me keep my Tanks you stupid AVers. B Double O T Y
Louis Domi Louis Domi's Super Happy Fun Time 1	Posted - 2015.08.13 03:56:00 - [7] - Quote Maximus Mobius wrote: Louis Domi wrote: Maximus Mobius wrote: Louis Domi wrote: I say Nerf everything. AV HAV ABC TNT CBS. Buff ADS and bring back old vehicle/turret variants I say actually put time into it and make it a level playing field. Or....? Or what? Idk? Or something else? Throw some ideas at me. I still want the old vehicle/ turret variants though Bring back old flying LAVs
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 20	Posted - 2015.08.13 04:04:00 - [8] - Quote Maximus Mobius wrote: Do you know why we double or even triple stack armor hardeners? IT'S BECAUSE ANYTHING LESS AND WE'RE A PILE OF ROLLING SCRAP METAL!! Exactly and this is the biggest problem with low Raw HP high mitigation tanks. It leads to a behaviour that players have categorized as Redline Tanking. The reality is that it is just plain sensible to wait out your module cool downs in a 0 risk area. Long ago vehicles could passive tank. Long ago Sagari could be seen grazing in majestic herds of three with more 21K total eHP between them. Long ago Heavy Armour Repairers were Active! Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 1	Posted - 2015.08.13 04:06:00 - [9] - Quote Maximus Mobius wrote: Do you know why we double or even triple stack armor hardeners? IT'S BECAUSE ANYTHING LESS AND WE'RE A PILE OF ROLLING SCRAP METAL!! I have been tanking since beta right before uprising and I can tell you this is the weakest tanks have ever been. At least before 1.7 we had complexity and modules and turret variation to help us combat the AV. Now we have only mlt,std,adv & pro turrets with no variation. And no mlt large turret missiles. AVers even have officer weapons and a less margin to miss with forge guns and even AHMGs are capable of destroying tanks. I remember tanking before 1.7 and we had an equal fighting ground. We had powerful active modules & turret variations and even my beloved scattered Ion cannon. Now we have jack sht in variation and we have almost no way to combat redline forge gunners besides luck. So shut up your 3 milita AV nades don't instantly blow up a hardened proto maddy. "I am actively aware there is a certain fit that makes me nigh upon a God, but because there is only one* Godmode fit and I still sometimes die to officer weapons, tanks are hard to pilot." O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
DUST Fiend 17	Posted - 2015.08.13 04:26:00 - [10] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: Maximus Mobius wrote: Do you know why we double or even triple stack armor hardeners? IT'S BECAUSE ANYTHING LESS AND WE'RE A PILE OF ROLLING SCRAP METAL!! I have been tanking since beta right before uprising and I can tell you this is the weakest tanks have ever been. At least before 1.7 we had complexity and modules and turret variation to help us combat the AV. Now we have only mlt,std,adv & pro turrets with no variation. And no mlt large turret missiles. AVers even have officer weapons and a less margin to miss with forge guns and even AHMGs are capable of destroying tanks. I remember tanking before 1.7 and we had an equal fighting ground. We had powerful active modules & turret variations and even my beloved scattered Ion cannon. Now we have jack sht in variation and we have almost no way to combat redline forge gunners besides luck. So shut up your 3 milita AV nades don't instantly blow up a hardened proto maddy. "I am actively aware there is a certain fit that makes me nigh upon a God, but because there is only one* Godmode fit and I still sometimes die to officer weapons, tanks are hard to pilot." And to Proto weapons. And ADV, and STD....and MLT.....oh and if not using the Godmode, you lose 1million ISK....yea. It must be really hard firing swarms from the supply depot you just ran too I am a beautiful space manatee, flying through the sky with the greatest of ease Swarms *everywhere*. So-bittervet

deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.08.13 05:35:00 - [11] - Quote Sometimes I wonder if this game would not be in 10x better condition if they had left out vehicles instead of racial heavy weapons. Seriously look at the incredible amount of time and energy that has been wasted in a couple of years for the same moronic back and forth to still be going on. Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
Leovarian L Lavitz Vader's-Fist 1	Posted - 2015.08.13 05:43:00 - [12] - Quote The tanks are supposed to go to the redline for module cool downs, it's vehicles form of out of play, infantry have the spawn que, vehicles have module cool downs in safe territory. Youtube: Dust 514 - You should Have Worn Proto Dueling is my specialty
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 1	Posted - 2015.08.13 06:32:00 - [13] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Daddrobit wrote: Maximus Mobius wrote: Do you know why we double or even triple stack armor hardeners? IT'S BECAUSE ANYTHING LESS AND WE'RE A PILE OF ROLLING SCRAP METAL!! I have been tanking since beta right before uprising and I can tell you this is the weakest tanks have ever been. At least before 1.7 we had complexity and modules and turret variation to help us combat the AV. Now we have only mlt,std,adv & pro turrets with no variation. And no mlt large turret missiles. AVers even have officer weapons and a less margin to miss with forge guns and even AHMGs are capable of destroying tanks. I remember tanking before 1.7 and we had an equal fighting ground. We had powerful active modules & turret variations and even my beloved scattered Ion cannon. Now we have jack sht in variation and we have almost no way to combat redline forge gunners besides luck. So shut up your 3 milita AV nades don't instantly blow up a hardened proto maddy. "I am actively aware there is a certain fit that makes me nigh upon a God, but because there is only one* Godmode fit and I still sometimes die to officer weapons, tanks are hard to pilot." And to Proto weapons. And ADV, and STD....and MLT.....oh and if not using the Godmode, you lose 1million ISK....yea. It must be really hard firing swarms from the supply depot you just ran too First off, why are you engaging an enemy supply depot without at all without your hardeners? Any time you ever engage an enemy knowing you are going in without support or the ability to self sustain, YOU are entirely at fault for ANY losses you sustain, no matter the isk cost. This holds true for any class in the game and tankers should not be special butterflys in this regard at all. And milita is literally incapable of killing any tank without the tanker actively trying to lose the tank. Even a basic with max proficiency on a maxed commando with 3 proto damage mods, you can not die to a single clip even without hardeners or plates, and you have well over 8 seconds to GTFO before you start getting hit with the second clip. And would you look at that, at 8 seconds, you're 180 meters away and are completely incapable of even being locked on by the swarmers. It must be really hard for you to hold the stick backwards for 8 seconds and or get behind any of the plentiful nearby cover at all and be completely safe outside of a swarmers lock on. Or, you know, wait for your invincibility timer to cool down and -then- engage. Cry Moar. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
Beld Errmon 1	Posted - 2015.08.13 06:37:00 - [14] - Quote heh did you just lose a bunch of prototanks before posting this? Assault Dropship Pilot Semi-Retired Closed Bittervet
Maximus Mobius Fatal Absolution 914	Posted - 2015.08.13 06:44:00 - [15] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: heh did you just lose a bunch of prototanks before posting this? I got proto tanks to burn but no I didn't. I did this since if a tanker doesn't actively have A hardener on, he will get wrecked by 3 packed Lai Dai AV nades. I'm annoyed at the "Tanks are too op" mindset the AV group has. ALL HAIL MAXSON!! Multi-role Tanker Tanks and turrets supplied by Caldari Steel and Ishukone!! For The State!!
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.08.13 06:53:00 - [16] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: And milita is literally incapable of killing any tank without the stares at my militia forge fit. stops listening to Daddrobit Wow... I mean what? I blow them to pieces and you don't? No damage mods either. Ds3 pad, no AA, and I usually practice vs Dropships... Do you not set up your target? Do you not track your shots? Do you just not try aiming? --- seriously a lot of Swarm users don't even bother learning to track a target. Do you only engage at the far end of your AV weapon? Can you not predict the (simplistic and very few) paths that a vehicle MUST take to get between targets? I'm just wondering what the REAL issue is. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
bear90211 Negative-Feedback. 345	Posted - 2015.08.13 07:26:00 - [17] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Daddrobit wrote: And milita is literally incapable of killing any tank without the stares at my militia forge fit. stops listening to Daddrobit Wow... I mean what? I blow them to pieces and you don't? No damage mods either. Ds3 pad, no AA, and I usually practice vs Dropships... Do you not set up your target? Do you not track your shots? Do you just not try aiming? --- seriously a lot of Swarm users don't even bother learning to track a target. Do you only engage at the far end of your AV weapon? Can you not predict the (simplistic and very few) paths that a vehicle MUST take to get between targets? I'm just wondering what the REAL issue is. I can support this, I was a tanker up till the 'rebalance' then I just went ground. I have no problem killing proto tanks if I want to, as long as it doesn't ** me off it's perfectly fine till a blue comes out with AV. though I notice blue (GOOD PLAYERS TOO!) berries engage a tank while it's on its 1x hardener state with everything they have, a quarter way through the attack the tanker pops his second hardener, then kills the AV guy. you have to wait till it runs through that secondary hardener, it's screwed after that. if you have a friend with you, set up near a choke point, hives and lai dai packs and swarms, chuck your nades then if it is still alive somehow, you have at least 6 swarms on him in 4 seconds. is he dead yet? yes. so if you have a problem with a tank and your blues are ******, use a jihad jeep. I do it, if need be.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.13 08:26:00 - [18] - Quote Came for tears and lies. Left with a water truck fleet load. Nice rant post. Madrugars are OP. Suck it. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 1	Posted - 2015.08.13 09:27:00 - [19] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Daddrobit wrote: And milita is literally incapable of killing any tank without the stares at my militia forge fit. stops listening to Daddrobit Wow... I mean what? I blow them to pieces and you don't? No damage mods either. Ds3 pad, no AA, and I usually practice vs Dropships... Do you not set up your target? Do you not track your shots? Do you just not try aiming? --- seriously a lot of Swarm users don't even bother learning to track a target. Do you only engage at the far end of your AV weapon? Can you not predict the (simplistic and very few) paths that a vehicle MUST take to get between targets? I'm just wondering what the REAL issue is. Look kiddo, if you're gonna make a reply to a comment, actually reading the comments you're replying to is generally considered the best practice. But in case it's just a personal comprehension disability, allow me to help you explain what was being covered a la the more simple style of a book by Dr Seuss. The Tanker and the Swarms By:Daddrobit Our fun little story will follow the dear Mr. Feind, self proclaimed Demigod! And though it might not have been true, to cross his logic meant going to his firing squad. But what Mr Fiend hated above all else was AV, and he despised it with such rancor! Yes it was patently obvious, (How could you miss it?) that this man was a self entitled tanker. He cried on the forums, "One Swarm Two Swarm Three Swarm Four" "From Standard to Officer, they hurt me so bad, I just can't take it any more!" "And who can forget Militia, oh such a horrible, devious, terrible beast!" "Yes my hardeners may have been down, but I should still get away at least?" "Who cares about things like balance, fun, or engaging gameplay?" "I'm in a tank for goodness sakes! And I am here to stay!" Oh yes he thought so very highly of himself, and he imagined it in so much blazing Glory, That he never expected, (t'was completely unforeseen) that he was not actually the hero of this story... For here it is that he does enter, the clone who calls himself Daddy Much to the despair of his victims, certainly seeing him makes them very unhappy "But wait," Daddy cried, "Stop yourself and hold long enough to let me speak." "Why would you go and attack someone when you know you yourself are very weak?" "And militia swarms aren't nearly such a beast. Surely there were a million ways to survive" "If you died going against a man using militia swarms, then you must have been taking a dive" "Even basic gives you plenty of time to run away. The first shots are merely a ticklish warning" "Eight seconds later is when you finally get into trouble, and after that is when you can really begin your mourning." "But what were you doing in all of that time? Did you not know that tanks go in reverse?" "If you simply start driving away, the swarms will become impotent, and then you won't have to open up your purse." "it must be hard to think about what I'm saying, so let me make it more simple before you start singing the blues" "Don't engage things when you know you can't win, and don't field what you can not afford to lose. And thus content and satisfied, Daddy sat back, waiting for a reply, reclining in his chair, Hoping that the next response from a tanker wouldn't be one that would make him tug out all of his hair. The End There, is that easier for you to understand? Now do not further antagonize me or I shall be forced to compose a Hynox-esque Novella between yourself, Maximus, Bad Furry, an Ion Cannon, and AV grenades... O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3	Posted - 2015.08.13 10:00:00 - [20] - Quote Its all so funny that the only tankers to ever openly complain on the forums were all so known as some of the worst tankers in the game. In dust balance will never happen but we should remind you to git gud. CBM

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.13 10:13:00 - [21] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Its all so funny that the only tankers to ever openly complain on the forums were all so known as some of the worst tankers in the game. In dust balance will never happen but we should remind you to git gud. Honestly the brazilian tankers that never post on the forum seem to be the nastiest customers. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3	Posted - 2015.08.13 10:24:00 - [22] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Its all so funny that the only tankers to ever openly complain on the forums were all so known as some of the worst tankers in the game. In dust balance will never happen but we should remind you to git gud. Honestly the brazilian tankers that never post on the forum seem to be the nastiest customers. a clear sign of some of the best tankers are the ones who only complain in game. They must be to busy stomping people even in a nerfed tank to waste their time on the forums. CBM
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.13 11:43:00 - [23] - Quote They really didn't have much reason to complain. The one guy I put a buttshot into with a FG did an IMMEDIATE 90 degree turn and proceeded to eat the rest of my shots to the hull like a child in a gummi bear factory. By the time I reloaded he was gone and back to max armor. It was entirely hilarious and enraging all at once. For all the whining about hispanics and south americans people vomit out, some of them absolutely know how to run the tanks for max effect. And the good ones aren't the ones stutter-warping from lag. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
DUST Fiend 17	Posted - 2015.08.13 11:58:00 - [24] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Daddrobit wrote: And milita is literally incapable of killing any tank without the stares at my militia forge fit. stops listening to Daddrobit Wow... I mean what? I blow them to pieces and you don't? No damage mods either. Ds3 pad, no AA, and I usually practice vs Dropships... Do you not set up your target? Do you not track your shots? Do you just not try aiming? --- seriously a lot of Swarm users don't even bother learning to track a target. Do you only engage at the far end of your AV weapon? Can you not predict the (simplistic and very few) paths that a vehicle MUST take to get between targets? I'm just wondering what the REAL issue is. Look kiddo, if you're gonna make a reply to a comment, actually reading the comments you're replying to is generally considered the best practice. But in case it's just a personal comprehension disability, allow me to help you explain what was being covered a la the more simple style of a book by Dr Seuss. The Tanker and the Swarms By:Daddrobit Our fun little story will follow the dear Mr. Feind, self proclaimed Demigod! And though it might not have been true, to cross his logic meant going to his firing squad. But what Mr Fiend hated above all else was AV, and he despised it with such rancor! Yes it was patently obvious, (How could you miss it?) that this man was a self entitled tanker. He cried on the forums, "One Swarm Two Swarm Three Swarm Four" "From Standard to Officer, they hurt me so bad, I just can't take it any more!" "And who can forget Militia, oh such a horrible, devious, terrible beast!" "Yes my hardeners may have been down, but I should still get away at least?" "Who cares about things like balance, fun, or engaging gameplay?" "I'm in a tank for goodness sakes! And I am here to stay!" Oh yes he thought so very highly of himself, and he imagined it in so much blazing Glory, That he never expected, (t'was completely unforeseen) that he was not actually the hero of this story... For here it is that he does enter, the clone who calls himself Daddy Much to the despair of his victims, certainly seeing him makes them very unhappy "But wait," Daddy cried, "Stop yourself and hold long enough to let me speak." "Why would you go and attack someone when you know you yourself are very weak?" "And militia swarms aren't nearly such a beast. Surely there were a million ways to survive" "If you died going against a man using militia swarms, then you must have been taking a dive" "Even basic gives you plenty of time to run away. The first shots are merely a ticklish warning" "Eight seconds later is when you finally get into trouble, and after that is when you can really begin your mourning." "But what were you doing in all of that time? Did you not know that tanks go in reverse?" "If you simply start driving away, the swarms will become impotent, and then you won't have to open up your purse." "it must be hard to think about what I'm saying, so let me make it more simple before you start singing the blues" "Don't engage things when you know you can't win, and don't field what you can not afford to lose. And thus content and satisfied, Daddy sat back, waiting for a reply, reclining in his chair, Hoping that the next response from a tanker wouldn't be one that would make him tug out all of his hair. The End There, is that easier for you to understand? Now do not further antagonize me or I shall be forced to compose a Hynox-esque Novella between yourself, Maximus, Bad Furry, an Ion Cannon, and AV grenades... Someone's pretty mad that they suck at DUST, and it's not me ;). I want to play your version of DUST where vehicles are only ever engaged by a single AV player. No wonder you're so salty. Update your client and enjoy the new and improved vehicle limit which allows AV to forever outnumber vehicles. In the new update they even have commandos so you can still shoot infantry even. Wow, its a brave new world I am a beautiful space manatee, flying through the sky with the greatest of ease Swarms *everywhere*. So-bittervet
Mobius Wyvern Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 6	Posted - 2015.08.13 12:12:00 - [25] - Quote For anyone who saw my thread asking what game mechanics you would be willing to redo from the ground up, most aspects of vehicle interaction would be mine. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Megaman Trigger Ready to Play 431	Posted - 2015.08.13 12:20:00 - [26] - Quote Buff raw HP, tone down Hardeners, move Heavy Reps to Active rather than Passive. Would that balance (or at least start to balance) HAVs so that they're 1. No longer completely vulnerable and squishy without Hardeners and 2. No longer nigh on invincible /godmode with Hardeners.? Purifier. First Class.
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 1	Posted - 2015.08.13 12:38:00 - [27] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Daddrobit wrote: Now do not further antagonize me or I shall be forced to compose a Hynox-esque Novella between yourself, Maximus, Bad Furry, an Ion Cannon, and AV grenades... Someone's pretty mad that they suck at DUST, and it's not me ;). I want to play your version of DUST where vehicles are only ever engaged by a single AV player. No wonder you're so salty. Update your client and enjoy the new and improved vehicle limit which allows AV to forever outnumber vehicles. In the new update they even have commandos so you can still shoot infantry even. Wow, its a brave new world That's it Mr. Fiend. You have crossed the line. Prepare yourself, for the gloves are coming off, and I shall wield my pen to weave you into my creation of such a composition of lust filled literary insanity so unbelievably incredible, you yourself will say: "Wow, that's unbelievably incredible." Please allow 3 to 6 weeks for delivery. Thank you. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
DUST Fiend 17	Posted - 2015.08.13 13:02:00 - [28] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Daddrobit wrote: Now do not further antagonize me or I shall be forced to compose a Hynox-esque Novella between yourself, Maximus, Bad Furry, an Ion Cannon, and AV grenades... Someone's pretty mad that they suck at DUST, and it's not me ;). I want to play your version of DUST where vehicles are only ever engaged by a single AV player. No wonder you're so salty. Update your client and enjoy the new and improved vehicle limit which allows AV to forever outnumber vehicles. In the new update they even have commandos so you can still shoot infantry even. Wow, its a brave new world That's it Mr. Fiend. You have crossed the line. Prepare yourself, for the gloves are coming off, and I shall wield my pen to weave you into my creation of such a composition of lust filled literary insanity so unbelievably incredible, you yourself will say: "Wow, that's unbelievably incredible." Please allow 3 to 6 weeks for delivery. Thank you. I love fan fiction about me. I want rabbit ears like Louise, and a panda named Jim who is my samurai butler. I am a beautiful space manatee, flying through the sky with the greatest of ease Swarms *everywhere*. So-bittervet
Forced Death Corrosive Synergy No Context 1	Posted - 2015.08.13 13:07:00 - [29] - Quote Any tanks that aren't prototype with 3 gardeners die instantly and any tanks with three gardeners never die 19.6m SP... 11/8/15
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 1	Posted - 2015.08.13 13:19:00 - [30] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Daddrobit wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Daddrobit wrote: Now do not further antagonize me or I shall be forced to compose a Hynox-esque Novella between yourself, Maximus, Bad Furry, an Ion Cannon, and AV grenades... Someone's pretty mad that they suck at DUST, and it's not me ;). I want to play your version of DUST where vehicles are only ever engaged by a single AV player. No wonder you're so salty. Update your client and enjoy the new and improved vehicle limit which allows AV to forever outnumber vehicles. In the new update they even have commandos so you can still shoot infantry even. Wow, its a brave new world That's it Mr. Fiend. You have crossed the line. Prepare yourself, for the gloves are coming off, and I shall wield my pen to weave you into my creation of such a composition of lust filled literary insanity so unbelievably incredible, you yourself will say: "Wow, that's unbelievably incredible." Please allow 3 to 6 weeks for delivery. Thank you. I love fan fiction about me. I want rabbit ears like Louise, and a panda named Jim who is my samurai butler. Rabbit ears -and- a panda butler? Oh mah goodness, you and Bad Furry are SO gonna get it on. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny

DUST Fiend 17	Posted - 2015.08.13 13:47:00 - [31] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: Rabbit ears -and- a panda butler? Oh mah goodness, you and Bad Furry are SO gonna get it on. So long as BF is in his scout suit jumping around obliterating infantry with swarms then all is right in the world. I am a beautiful space manatee, flying through the sky with the greatest of ease Swarms *everywhere*. So-bittervet
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution 12	Posted - 2015.08.13 15:54:00 - [32] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Daddrobit wrote: And milita is literally incapable of killing any tank without the stares at my militia forge fit. stops listening to Daddrobit Wow... I mean what? I blow them to pieces and you don't? No damage mods either. Ds3 pad, no AA, and I usually practice vs Dropships... Do you not set up your target? Do you not track your shots? Do you just not try aiming? --- seriously a lot of Swarm users don't even bother learning to track a target. Do you only engage at the far end of your AV weapon? Can you not predict the (simplistic and very few) paths that a vehicle MUST take to get between targets? I'm just wondering what the REAL issue is. Look kiddo, if you're gonna make a reply to a comment, actually reading the comments you're replying to is generally considered the best practice. But in case it's just a personal comprehension disability, allow me to help you explain what was being covered a la the more simple style of a book by Dr Seuss. The Tanker and the Swarms By:Daddrobit Our fun little story will follow the dear Mr. Feind, self proclaimed Demigod! And though it might not have been true, to cross his logic meant going to his firing squad. But what Mr Fiend hated above all else was AV, and he despised it with such rancor! Yes it was patently obvious, (How could you miss it?) that this man was a self entitled tanker. He cried on the forums, "One Swarm Two Swarm Three Swarm Four" "From Standard to Officer, they hurt me so bad, I just can't take it any more!" "And who can forget Militia, oh such a horrible, devious, terrible beast!" "Yes my hardeners may have been down, but I should still get away at least?" "Who cares about things like balance, fun, or engaging gameplay?" "I'm in a tank for goodness sakes! And I am here to stay!" Oh yes he thought so very highly of himself, and he imagined it in so much blazing Glory, That he never expected, (t'was completely unforeseen) that he was not actually the hero of this story... For here it is that he does enter, the clone who calls himself Daddy Much to the despair of his victims, certainly seeing him makes them very unhappy "But wait," Daddy cried, "Stop yourself and hold long enough to let me speak." "Why would you go and attack someone when you know you yourself are very weak?" "And militia swarms aren't nearly such a beast. Surely there were a million ways to survive" "If you died going against a man using militia swarms, then you must have been taking a dive" "Even basic gives you plenty of time to run away. The first shots are merely a ticklish warning" "Eight seconds later is when you finally get into trouble, and after that is when you can really begin your mourning." "But what were you doing in all of that time? Did you not know that tanks go in reverse?" "If you simply start driving away, the swarms will become impotent, and then you won't have to open up your purse." "it must be hard to think about what I'm saying, so let me make it more simple before you start singing the blues" "Don't engage things when you know you can't win, and don't field what you can not afford to lose. And thus content and satisfied, Daddy sat back, waiting for a reply, reclining in his chair, Hoping that the next response from a tanker wouldn't be one that would make him tug out all of his hair. The End There, is that easier for you to understand? Now do not further antagonize me or I shall be forced to compose a Hynox-esque Novella between yourself, Maximus, Bad Furry, an Ion Cannon, and AV grenades... That's actually a pretty decent poem. Currently listening to: Tsukihime OST Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_;
Quasar Storm 0uter.Heaven 647	Posted - 2015.08.13 16:48:00 - [33] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Its all so funny that the only tankers to ever openly complain on the forums were all so known as some of the worst tankers in the game. In dust balance will never happen but we should remind you to git gud. Honestly the brazilian tankers that never post on the forum seem to be the nastiest customers. a clear sign of some of the best tankers are the ones who only complain in game. They must be to busy stomping people even in a nerfed tank to waste their time on the forums. Sicaaa-chuuuuuuu!!!! Recent studies show that staring at a green apple changes the likelihood of all ravens being black.
Maximus Mobius Fatal Absolution 921	Posted - 2015.08.13 17:19:00 - [34] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Its all so funny that the only tankers to ever openly complain on the forums were all so known as some of the worst tankers in the game. In dust balance will never happen but we should remind you to git gud. Honestly the brazilian tankers that never post on the forum seem to be the nastiest customers. a clear sign of some of the best tankers are the ones who only complain in game. They must be to busy stomping people even in a nerfed tank to waste their time on the forums. Causation does not equal correlation ALL HAIL MAXSON!! Multi-role Tanker Tanks and turrets supplied by Caldari Steel and Ishukone!! For The State!!
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 1	Posted - 2015.08.13 20:16:00 - [35] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Daddrobit wrote: Rabbit ears -and- a panda butler? Oh mah goodness, you and Bad Furry are SO gonna get it on. So long as BF is in his scout suit jumping around obliterating infantry with swarms then all is right in the world. Hmmm, I dunno, I always associated him with sitting in a rail tank on top of Manus Peak, (when it was still a peak) and other places it was somewhat difficult to get to. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
DUST Fiend 17	Posted - 2015.08.13 20:17:00 - [36] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Daddrobit wrote: Rabbit ears -and- a panda butler? Oh mah goodness, you and Bad Furry are SO gonna get it on. So long as BF is in his scout suit jumping around obliterating infantry with swarms then all is right in the world. Hmmm, I dunno, I always associated him with sitting in a rail tank on top of Manus Peak, (when it was still a peak) and other places it was somewhat difficult to get to. That's the new BF. I'm talking about the original BF. The jumpy close range swarm scout who hopped around the match slaughtering scores of helpless infantry. I am a beautiful space manatee, flying through the sky with the greatest of ease Swarms *everywhere*. So-bittervet
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 1	Posted - 2015.08.13 20:32:00 - [37] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Daddrobit wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Daddrobit wrote: Rabbit ears -and- a panda butler? Oh mah goodness, you and Bad Furry are SO gonna get it on. So long as BF is in his scout suit jumping around obliterating infantry with swarms then all is right in the world. Hmmm, I dunno, I always associated him with sitting in a rail tank on top of Manus Peak, (when it was still a peak) and other places it was somewhat difficult to get to. That's the new BF. I'm talking about the original BF. The jumpy close range swarm scout who hopped around the match slaughtering scores of helpless infantry. Well I dunno about that really being -his- MO tbqh. Back then that was the standard for probably 50% of the population. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
Tebu Gan 0uter.Heaven 1	Posted - 2015.08.13 20:33:00 - [38] - Quote Maximus Mobius wrote: Do you know why we double or even triple stack armor hardeners? IT'S BECAUSE ANYTHING LESS AND WE'RE A PILE OF ROLLING SCRAP METAL!! I have been tanking since beta right before uprising and I can tell you this is the weakest tanks have ever been. At least before 1.7 we had complexity and modules and turret variation to help us combat the AV. Now we have only mlt,std,adv & pro turrets with no variation. And no mlt large turret missiles. AVers even have officer weapons and a less margin to miss with forge guns and even AHMGs are capable of destroying tanks. I remember tanking before 1.7 and we had an equal fighting ground. We had powerful active modules & turret variations and even my beloved scattered Ion cannon. Now we have jack sh*t in variation and we have almost no way to combat redline forge gunners besides luck. So shut up your 3 milita AV nades don't instantly blow up a hardened proto maddy. Actually I run a double plated, single hardener and rep fit, that is very strong against AV and pretty effective against most tanks.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 20	Posted - 2015.08.13 20:44:00 - [39] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Maximus Mobius wrote: Do you know why we double or even triple stack armor hardeners? IT'S BECAUSE ANYTHING LESS AND WE'RE A PILE OF ROLLING SCRAP METAL!! I have been tanking since beta right before uprising and I can tell you this is the weakest tanks have ever been. At least before 1.7 we had complexity and modules and turret variation to help us combat the AV. Now we have only mlt,std,adv & pro turrets with no variation. And no mlt large turret missiles. AVers even have officer weapons and a less margin to miss with forge guns and even AHMGs are capable of destroying tanks. I remember tanking before 1.7 and we had an equal fighting ground. We had powerful active modules & turret variations and even my beloved scattered Ion cannon. Now we have jack sht in variation and we have almost no way to combat redline forge gunners besides luck. So shut up your 3 milita AV nades don't instantly blow up a hardened proto maddy. Actually I run a double plated, single hardener and rep fit, that is very strong against AV and pretty effective against most tanks. That was something I tried a long time ago..... actually it was a triple plated Hardener fit with the sole purpose of absolute trolling, are there specific kinds of tactics you have to use to pull this kind of HAV off or is this just a public/FW fitting? Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.*
Moguns Ja'Xon The Knights Of NewEden 11	Posted - 2015.08.13 21:22:00 - [40] - Quote Maximus Mobius wrote: Do you know why we double or even triple stack armor hardeners? IT'S BECAUSE ANYTHING LESS AND WE'RE A PILE OF ROLLING SCRAP METAL!! I have been tanking since beta right before uprising and I can tell you this is the weakest tanks have ever been. At least before 1.7 we had complexity and modules and turret variation to help us combat the AV. Now we have only mlt,std,adv & pro turrets with no variation. And no mlt large turret missiles. AVers even have officer weapons and a less margin to miss with forge guns and even AHMGs are capable of destroying tanks. I remember tanking before 1.7 and we had an equal fighting ground. We had powerful active modules & turret variations and even my beloved scattered Ion cannon. Now we have jack sh*t in variation and we have almost no way to combat redline forge gunners besides luck. So shut up your 3 milita AV nades don't instantly blow up a hardened proto maddy. you cant forge from redline anymore. limit is 250-300 meters God of Amarr Sentinels

Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 1	Posted - 2015.08.13 23:33:00 - [41] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Daddrobit wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Daddrobit wrote: Rabbit ears -and- a panda butler? Oh mah goodness, you and Bad Furry are SO gonna get it on. So long as BF is in his scout suit jumping around obliterating infantry with swarms then all is right in the world. Hmmm, I dunno, I always associated him with sitting in a rail tank on top of Manus Peak, (when it was still a peak) and other places it was somewhat difficult to get to. That's the new BF. I'm talking about the original BF. The jumpy close range swarm scout who hopped around the match slaughtering scores of helpless infantry. Hmmm, though I don't actually know what he considers himself, the jumpy bit makes me think lagomorph... O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 495	Posted - 2015.08.14 04:30:00 - [42] - Quote Maximus Mobius wrote: Beld Errmon wrote: heh did you just lose a bunch of prototanks before posting this? I got proto tanks to burn but no I didn't. I did this since if a tanker doesn't actively have A hardener on, he will get wrecked by 3 packed Lai Dai AV nades. I'm annoyed at the "Tanks are too op" mindset the AV group has. LOL funny because all i see are tankers complain that AV is OP , LOL 3 Lai Dais ive been in tanks that laugh at that hell ive been against tanks that let me get 12 swarm vollies and it acted like CCP adding full racial variants " meh We will get to it soon(TM)" Have garbage gun game? Throw a Core.
Maximus Mobius Fatal Absolution 926	Posted - 2015.08.14 06:41:00 - [43] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Maximus Mobius wrote: Beld Errmon wrote: heh did you just lose a bunch of prototanks before posting this? I got proto tanks to burn but no I didn't. I did this since if a tanker doesn't actively have A hardener on, he will get wrecked by 3 packed Lai Dai AV nades. I'm annoyed at the "Tanks are too op" mindset the AV group has. LOL funny because all i see are tankers complain that AV is OP , LOL 3 Lai Dais ive been in tanks that laugh at that hell ive been against tanks that let me get 12 swarm vollies and it acted like CCP adding full racial variants " meh We will get to it soon(TM)" With the hardeners on or off? And who was that tanker and how much SP was sunk into vehicles and what was his fit? ALL HAIL MAXSON!! Multi-role Tanker Tanks and turrets supplied by Caldari Steel and Ishukone!! For The State!!
Nirwanda Vaughns 1	Posted - 2015.08.14 08:51:00 - [44] - Quote AV and Vehicles will never truly be balanced til we have some decent heavy shield AV so til then every arguement is moot because there simply isn't enough balance. Please fix my C-II hitpoints!!
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 282	Posted - 2015.08.14 13:46:00 - [45] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: AV and Vehicles will never truly be balanced til we have some decent heavy shield AV so til then every arguement is moot because there simply isn't enough balance. Considering shield tanks don't really exist right now exceptt for idiots who think a gank fit gunloggi works, Shield AV is a very low priority. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 282	Posted - 2015.08.14 13:47:00 - [46] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Maximus Mobius wrote: Beld Errmon wrote: heh did you just lose a bunch of prototanks before posting this? I got proto tanks to burn but no I didn't. I did this since if a tanker doesn't actively have A hardener on, he will get wrecked by 3 packed Lai Dai AV nades. I'm annoyed at the "Tanks are too op" mindset the AV group has. LOL funny because all i see are tankers complain that AV is OP , LOL 3 Lai Dais ive been in tanks that laugh at that hell ive been against tanks that let me get 12 swarm vollies and it acted like CCP adding full racial variants " meh We will get to it soon(TM)" You didn't read his post. He said a tank without its hardeners on will get wrecked by lai dais. Which, if it doesn't have a plate on is true. Maybe you should spend less time hurling swarms at dual rep maddies and actually try and get close for once. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 551	Posted - 2015.08.14 17:05:00 - [47] - Quote No matter the build, a tank with no hardeners is dead. We have little choice but to be OP. Zero variety. Gunni can't hang ATM. Running any fit other than dual or better hardened maddy is asking to lose isk. XT trip damage missiles do squat against a trip hardened maddy. I don't rail so idk. The majesty here is the fact that infantry complaints brought us to this era. Stripped of all our wonderful mods and turrets, hulls, and other vehicles; its no wonder we run as powerful as we can and punish infantry any chance we get. With the bumper physics fix, LLAV could make a comeback. But no, its a murder taxi LDS could make a comeback with all the pythons and officer forges/swarms out there. But no, they are unkillable. SLAV was overlooked but one of my faves. Honestly nobody has ever cried about them for any reason lol. (except me, about getting gta style air then instapopping upon landing) ADS could still be a tank hunter, but n.... Actually, I think us tankers cried on that one. But with max skills on pilot and gunner they could eviscerate a maxed HAV with a MLT turret. Just CCP overdid it with that "balance pass"... We used to run in packs and graze majestically upon each other. Ran into a rail maddy with my gunni recently, and had to actually blink the crust away for a true battle against True lol. He was using driving skill, and tactics on me. I wasn't sure if I had fallen asleep playing and dreamt it or not. Long story is long. Pretty sure I speak for all true operators when I say that the current vehicle meta is BORING! "Who's epeen is harder?..." RUNAWAYRUNAWAYRUNAWAY Fun... Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
DUST Fiend 17	Posted - 2015.08.14 17:08:00 - [48] - Quote Devadander wrote: ADS could still be a tank hunter, but n.... Actually, I think us tankers cried on that one. But with max skills on pilot and gunner they could eviscerate a maxed HAV with a MLT turret. Just CCP overdid it with that "balance pass".... The sad truth on this one is that CCP was unable to fix the bug, so in order to address it they nerfed the hell out of our RoF so when you pilot stack it's not as OP. Pilot stacking still exists, it's just less appealing since they neutered our offense. I am a beautiful space manatee, flying through the sky with the greatest of ease Swarms *everywhere*. So-bittervet
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 551	Posted - 2015.08.14 17:16:00 - [49] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Devadander wrote: ADS could still be a tank hunter, but n.... Actually, I think us tankers cried on that one. But with max skills on pilot and gunner they could eviscerate a maxed HAV with a MLT turret. Just CCP overdid it with that "balance pass".... The sad truth on this one is that CCP was unable to fix the bug, so in order to address it they nerfed the hell out of our RoF so when you pilot stack it's not as OP. Pilot stacking still exists, it's just less appealing since they neutered our offense. Was foggy on that one, haven't DS since they removed ole Prometheus Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
DUST Fiend 17	Posted - 2015.08.14 17:17:00 - [50] - Quote Devadander wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Devadander wrote: ADS could still be a tank hunter, but n.... Actually, I think us tankers cried on that one. But with max skills on pilot and gunner they could eviscerate a maxed HAV with a MLT turret. Just CCP overdid it with that "balance pass".... The sad truth on this one is that CCP was unable to fix the bug, so in order to address it they nerfed the hell out of our RoF so when you pilot stack it's not as OP. Pilot stacking still exists, it's just less appealing since they neutered our offense. Was foggy on that one, haven't DS since they removed ole Prometheus I was one of the only original people to go balls deep into Prometheus the moment it was released. That was.....a very...bad decision. To this day I've never raged as hard as I did as Prometheus pilot. My very first taste at just how bad CCP is at balancing things. I am a beautiful space manatee, flying through the sky with the greatest of ease Swarms *everywhere*. So-bittervet

Alcina Nektaria KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 145	Posted - 2015.08.14 17:32:00 - [51] - Quote If I am not mistaken, wasn't a buff given to AV nades not long after the buff to tanks, or around the same time at least? I want to say it was after. The problem (in my opinion) because no one has any GOOD ideas for vehicles is that AV nades were buffed to combat the stupid double hardners that people were running to be assholes in the first place. There's no good way to run a vehicle anymore. I used to actually enjoy watching tankers go at it with each other well before things started getting out of hand with releases and updates. Idk it's just my opinion, we have issues in this community of exploiting mods and machinery and then we complain when things get buffed and nerfed when 85% of the time the stuff was fine to begin with. A good solution would be for AV to be nerfed to a point but then release prefitted vehicles to choose from. Maybe ask the community for actual GOOD fitting ideas instead of the stupid ** they have to run to combat the mess they made in the first place. I hate to say it, but someone the other day just said the game would have possibly been better without vehicles and with this as an example I can't help but think they're right. Even AV guns have a problem. In a game where there are 16 or less people on each team, it shouldn't take more than 2 people to successfully take out a vehicle with AV. All around the entire mechanics revolving Vehicles and AV is so off it's not even funny. Maybe I'm just reaching, but that's my honest opinion on the matter. KEQ Diplomat** Gallente Loyalist ... Come at me bro. A grenade to the head will most certainly get you dead.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 283	Posted - 2015.08.14 18:19:00 - [52] - Quote Alcina Nektaria wrote: The problem (in my opinion) because no one has any GOOD ideas for vehicles is that AV nades were buffed to combat the stupid double hardners that people were running to be assholes in the first place. There's no good way to run a vehicle anymore. Tankers fitting to survive are *****. Glad to know you are not biased. Alcina Nektaria wrote: A good solution would be for AV to be nerfed to a point but then release prefitted vehicles to choose from. Maybe ask the community for actual GOOD fitting ideas instead of the stupid they have to run to combat the mess they made in the first place. What? Alcina Nektaria wrote:** Even AV guns have a problem. In a game where there are 16 or less people on each team, it shouldn't take more than 2 people to successfully take out a vehicle with AV. It doesn't. No matter the fit(aside from a joke dual plated dual hardened maddy with a basic turret) EVERY tank you can put on field dies to 6 lai dais. No other av needed. If you can't take out a tank with a buddy in a LAV, then you are the problem, not the AV gear. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Alcina Nektaria KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 146	Posted - 2015.08.14 18:34:00 - [53] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Alcina Nektaria wrote: The problem (in my opinion) because no one has any GOOD ideas for vehicles is that AV nades were buffed to combat the stupid double hardners that people were running to be assholes in the first place. There's no good way to run a vehicle anymore. Tankers fitting to survive are *****. Glad to know you are not biased. Alcina Nektaria wrote: A good solution would be for AV to be nerfed to a point but then release prefitted vehicles to choose from. Maybe ask the community for actual GOOD fitting ideas instead of the stupid they have to run to combat the mess they made in the first place. What? Alcina Nektaria wrote: Even AV guns have a problem. In a game where there are 16 or less people on each team, it shouldn't take more than 2 people to successfully take out a vehicle with AV. It doesn't. No matter the fit(aside from a joke dual plated dual hardened maddy with a basic turret) EVERY tank you can put on field dies to 6 lai dais. No other av needed. If you can't take out a tank with a buddy in a LAV, then you are the problem, not the AV gear. If you read anything I said, you'd see that I was saying it all needs to fixed. You are formatting my words conditionally to specific scenarios. I'm saying in general, as a whole. Vehicles suck, av sucks because there is no balance. Lets see you come up with a suggested solution instead of criticizing an idea. KEQ Diplomat** Gallente Loyalist ... Come at me bro. A grenade to the head will most certainly get you dead.
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3	Posted - 2015.08.14 18:48:00 - [54] - Quote Forced Death wrote: Any tanks that aren't prototype with 3 gardeners die instantly and any tanks with three gardeners never die ok well nerf the gardeners then cause those little shovels they carry are OP on a side note for tank balance why don't they buff raw HP and nerf useing more then 1 hardener. CBM
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 283	Posted - 2015.08.14 18:56:00 - [55] - Quote Alcina Nektaria wrote: If you read anything I said, you'd see that I was saying it all needs to fixed. You are formatting my words conditionally to specific scenarios. I'm saying in general, as a whole. Vehicles suck, av sucks because there is no balance. Lets see you come up with a suggested solution instead of criticizing an idea. Just like the muppet in the other thread, a complete rework isn't going to happen, and people suggesting it needs to be told that point blank. It might be possible to get enough dev effort to tweak some numbers here and there, but a total redo isn't going to happen. Your idea isn't one, it is just being even more critical than I am, by saying it all sucks, start over like a little kid. I don't think vehicles suck, and I don't think AV sucks. I enjoy driving my tanks around, and I have used enough AV to know how brutally effective it is. I didn't "format" your words to fit a specific scenario. You called all tankers assholes just for trying to not die. That shows exactly how you think about the situation. The third quoted portion was me disputing your baseless claim that you need more than 2 people to take out a hardened tank. I don't need to come up with a solution to a crybabies problem. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Alcina Nektaria KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 146	Posted - 2015.08.14 19:05:00 - [56] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Alcina Nektaria wrote: If you read anything I said, you'd see that I was saying it all needs to fixed. You are formatting my words conditionally to specific scenarios. I'm saying in general, as a whole. Vehicles suck, av sucks because there is no balance. Lets see you come up with a suggested solution instead of criticizing an idea. Just like the muppet in the other thread, a complete rework isn't going to happen, and people suggesting it needs to be told that point blank. It might be possible to get enough dev effort to tweak some numbers here and there, but a total redo isn't going to happen. Your idea isn't one, it is just being even more critical than I am, by saying it all sucks, start over like a little kid. I don't think vehicles suck, and I don't think AV sucks. I enjoy driving my tanks around, and I have used enough AV to know how brutally effective it is. I didn't "format" your words to fit a specific scenario. You called all tankers assholes just for trying to not die. That shows exactly how you think about the situation. The third quoted portion was me disputing your baseless claim that you need more than 2 people to take out a hardened tank. I don't need to come up with a solution to a crybabies problem. In terms of how they work, yeah they suck. No sugar coating, no reason to remake all the points that were made on them. So what if I want to voice my opinion on the matter. Yes, some tankers are assholes with ***** fits BECAUSE of unbalanced game mechanics. I don't think it's so wrong to hope for some sort of revamping of the system in which they operate. No need for you to wet yourself over it KEQ Diplomat** Gallente Loyalist ... Come at me bro. A grenade to the head will most certainly get you dead.
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3	Posted - 2015.08.14 19:08:00 - [57] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Alcina Nektaria wrote: If you read anything I said, you'd see that I was saying it all needs to fixed. You are formatting my words conditionally to specific scenarios. I'm saying in general, as a whole. Vehicles suck, av sucks because there is no balance. Lets see you come up with a suggested solution instead of criticizing an idea. Just like the muppet in the other thread, a complete rework isn't going to happen, and people suggesting it needs to be told that point blank. It might be possible to get enough dev effort to tweak some numbers here and there, but a total redo isn't going to happen. Your idea isn't one, it is just being even more critical than I am, by saying it all sucks, start over like a little kid. I don't think vehicles suck, and I don't think AV sucks. I enjoy driving my tanks around, and I have used enough AV to know how brutally effective it is. I didn't "format" your words to fit a specific scenario. You called all tankers assholes just for trying to not die. That shows exactly how you think about the situation. The third quoted portion was me disputing your baseless claim that you need more than 2 people to take out a hardened tank. I don't need to come up with a solution to a crybabies problem. yes because standing next to a tank throwing 3 AV nades then putting down a nanohive restocking the nades and throwing 3 more all while the tank sits there is a great tactic that never result in the infantry dieing. This whole game needed to be remade from the ground up a long time ago. Just because the devs are nose pickers does not mean we accept flawed mechanics. CBM
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 500	Posted - 2015.08.14 19:25:00 - [58] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Maximus Mobius wrote: Beld Errmon wrote: heh did you just lose a bunch of prototanks before posting this? I got proto tanks to burn but no I didn't. I did this since if a tanker doesn't actively have A hardener on, he will get wrecked by 3 packed Lai Dai AV nades. I'm annoyed at the "Tanks are too op" mindset the AV group has. LOL funny because all i see are tankers complain that AV is OP , LOL 3 Lai Dais ive been in tanks that laugh at that hell ive been against tanks that let me get 12 swarm vollies and it acted like CCP adding full racial variants " meh We will get to it soon(TM)" You didn't read his post. He said a tank without its hardeners on will get wrecked by lai dais. Which, if it doesn't have a plate on is true. Maybe you should spend less time hurling swarms at dual rep maddies and actually try and get close for once. so just becasue i was in a tank that surivied 3 lais makes what i said null? sure why not. just because i misread something some one typed (because booze and lack of reading glasses) does not mean that i sit at the 170m lockon range of swarms but you know my play style though right? but then again im just a noob that has been playing this game since closed beta so what do i know. Have garbage gun game? Throw a Core.
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3	Posted - 2015.08.14 19:25:00 - [59] - Quote Ok now that im done trolling the tankers i will put my two cents in. The current status in dust is tanks are fragile and invincible when they nerfed raw HP and made useing multiple harders effective. If you look at the great tank AV balance in bf4 and planet side you will see that haveing strong AV and hight HP tanks leads to longer battles given a smart tanker the ability to move to cover. You should never make tanks invincible or fragile on and off. CBM
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 283	Posted - 2015.08.14 19:34:00 - [60] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: yes because standing next to a tank throwing 3 AV nades then putting down a nanohive restocking the nades and throwing 3 more all while the tank sits there is a great tactic that never result in the infantry dieing. Funny thing about AV nades ( and swarms to a lesser degree) is that you don't need to even be in gun view of the tank to mess it up. Tons of safety around almost every flag in the game to properly administer AV glory, provided the tank sits around. Of course the far more successful ram an LAV into him, hop out and administer AV justice has no real counter and puts the operators of the lav at virtually no risk provided they don't lag out and ride the fireball. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu

Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 500	Posted - 2015.08.14 19:38:00 - [61] - Quote Maximus Mobius wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Maximus Mobius wrote: Beld Errmon wrote: heh did you just lose a bunch of prototanks before posting this? I got proto tanks to burn but no I didn't. I did this since if a tanker doesn't actively have A hardener on, he will get wrecked by 3 packed Lai Dai AV nades. I'm annoyed at the "Tanks are too op" mindset the AV group has. LOL funny because all i see are tankers complain that AV is OP , LOL 3 Lai Dais ive been in tanks that laugh at that hell ive been against tanks that let me get 12 swarm vollies and it acted like CCP adding full racial variants " meh We will get to it soon(TM)" With the hardeners on or off? And who was that tanker and how much SP was sunk into vehicles and what was his fit? assuming you are taking about the lai dais A. after the first 2 the hardener came on ( stupid delay) B. there have been several tanks i have ridden C. i dont know how much SP D. i assume harders repps if anything CCP should bring back the old modules and should seperate tanks and DS instead of buffing or nurfing them as one Have garbage gun game? Throw a Core.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 283	Posted - 2015.08.14 19:39:00 - [62] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: so just becasue i was in a tank that surivied 3 lais makes what i said null? sure why not. just because i misread something some one typed (because booze and lack of reading glasses) does not mean that i sit at the 170m lockon range of swarms but you know my play style though right? but then again im just a noob that has been playing this game since closed beta so what do i know. First line is mush. Should try that one again. Second part is pretty funny. You yourself said you flung 12 volleys of swarms at a tank. As for the last line, time spent playing doesn't equal skill. You clearly don't know much about tanks, so it is rather likely that you don't know anything about how to fight them either. 12 volleys of swarms backs that up. Please tell me how pro you are for being in closed beta, I was there too, and I learned how to AV before uprising 1.0 hit. Why haven't you learned in the extra year since then? The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Tebu Gan 0uter.Heaven 1	Posted - 2015.08.14 19:40:00 - [63] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: Maximus Mobius wrote: Do you know why we double or even triple stack armor hardeners? IT'S BECAUSE ANYTHING LESS AND WE'RE A PILE OF ROLLING SCRAP METAL!! I have been tanking since beta right before uprising and I can tell you this is the weakest tanks have ever been. At least before 1.7 we had complexity and modules and turret variation to help us combat the AV. Now we have only mlt,std,adv & pro turrets with no variation. And no mlt large turret missiles. AVers even have officer weapons and a less margin to miss with forge guns and even AHMGs are capable of destroying tanks. I remember tanking before 1.7 and we had an equal fighting ground. We had powerful active modules & turret variations and even my beloved scattered Ion cannon. Now we have jack sh*t in variation and we have almost no way to combat redline forge gunners besides luck. So shut up your 3 milita AV nades don't instantly blow up a hardened proto maddy. Actually I run a double plated, single hardener and rep fit, that is very strong against AV and pretty effective against most tanks. That was something I tried a long time ago..... actually it was a triple plated Hardener fit with the sole purpose of absolute trolling, are there specific kinds of tactics you have to use to pull this kind of HAV off or is this just a public/FW fitting? Nothing special, I used it in PC to a bit of success for a while but have dropped it for a more OP fit. Good fit for when you are feeling lazy as it doesn't require as much attention as multiple hardener fits do.
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 500	Posted - 2015.08.14 19:43:00 - [64] - Quote Devadander wrote: No matter the build, a tank with no hardeners is dead. We have little choice but to be OP. Zero variety. Gunni can't hang ATM. Running any fit other than dual or better hardened maddy is asking to lose isk. XT trip damage missiles do squat against a trip hardened maddy. I don't rail so idk. The majesty here is the fact that infantry complaints brought us to this era. Stripped of all our wonderful mods and turrets, hulls, and other vehicles; its no wonder we run as powerful as we can and punish infantry any chance we get. With the bumper physics fix, LLAV could make a comeback. But no, its a murder taxi LDS could make a comeback with all the pythons and officer forges/swarms out there. But no, they are unkillable. SLAV was overlooked but one of my faves. Honestly nobody has ever cried about them for any reason lol. (except me, about getting gta style air then instapopping upon landing) ADS could still be a tank hunter, but n.... Actually, I think us tankers cried on that one. But with max skills on pilot and gunner they could eviscerate a maxed HAV with a MLT turret. Just CCP overdid it with that "balance pass"... We used to run in packs and graze majestically upon each other. Ran into a rail maddy with my gunni recently, and had to actually blink the crust away for a true battle against True lol. He was using driving skill, and tactics on me. I wasn't sure if I had fallen asleep playing and dreamt it or not. Long story is long. Pretty sure I speak for all true operators when I say that the current vehicle meta is BORING! "Who's epeen is harder?..." RUNAWAYRUNAWAYRUNAWAY Fun... I read to about the LDS and i agree they need top bring back the old modules and vehicles also CCP should tweek tanks and DS separately Have garbage gun game? Throw a Core.
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet RUST415 329	Posted - 2015.08.14 20:16:00 - [65] - Quote Maximus Mobius wrote: Louis Domi wrote: I say Nerf everything. AV HAV ABC TNT CBS. Buff ADS and bring back old vehicle/turret variants I say actually put time into it and make it a level playing field. Tanks can shoot BBs and infantry can throw rocks and use sticks!!
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 501	Posted - 2015.08.14 20:18:00 - [66] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: so just becasue i was in a tank that surivied 3 lais makes what i said null? sure why not. just because i misread something some one typed (because booze and lack of reading glasses) does not mean that i sit at the 170m lockon range of swarms but you know my play style though right? but then again im just a noob that has been playing this game since closed beta so what do i know. First line is mush. Should try that one again. Second part is pretty funny. You yourself said you flung 12 volleys of swarms at a tank. As for the last line, time spent playing doesn't equal skill. You clearly don't know much about tanks, so it is rather likely that you don't know anything about how to fight them either. 12 volleys of swarms backs that up. Please tell me how pro you are for being in closed beta, I was there too, and I learned how to AV before uprising 1.0 hit. Why haven't you learned in the extra year since then? LOL thats funny the first line is refering to your reponce of "You didn't read his post. He said a tank without its hardeners on will get wrecked by lai dais. Which, if it doesn't have a plate on is true. Maybe you should spend less time hurling swarms at dual rep maddies and actually try and get close for once." but you know what lets ignore that. and as for the rest its just so LOLZ worthy itf thats the best you can do ASSUMING you know how i play then sure why not keep telling your self that your better. Have garbage gun game? Throw a Core.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 283	Posted - 2015.08.14 20:36:00 - [67] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: LOL thats funny the first line is refering to your reponce of "You didn't read his post. He said a tank without its hardeners on will get wrecked by lai dais. Which, if it doesn't have a plate on is true. Maybe you should spend less time hurling swarms at dual rep maddies and actually try and get close for once." but you know what lets ignore that. and as for the rest its just so LOLZ worthy itf thats the best you can do ASSUMING you know how i play then sure why not keep telling your self that your better. Wow, between the spelling and the lack of understanding of what words mean, no wonder you can't kill tanks. How exactly does you surviving 3 av nades while sitting in a tank invalidate your claim that it can survive such? Since you decided to go all caps on about your playstyle, let me help you out once again. http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/assumption I didn't assume anything. You said you fired twelve volleys of swarms at a tank. Since you didn't make any mention of using av nades, you weren't close. You shouldn't all caps a word when you don't know what it means. I can kill tanks with just proxies. I can also kill them with AV nades and a PLC. So yes, I am better than you. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Megaman Trigger Ready to Play 436	Posted - 2015.08.14 20:44:00 - [68] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: I didn't assume anything. You said you fired twelve volleys of swarms at a tank. Since you didn't make any mention of using av nades, you weren't close. Or was running a Commando. Just sayin' Purifier. First Class.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 283	Posted - 2015.08.14 20:45:00 - [69] - Quote Megaman Trigger wrote: General Mosquito wrote: I didn't assume anything. You said you fired twelve volleys of swarms at a tank. Since you didn't make any mention of using av nades, you weren't close. Or was running a Commando. Just sayin' Minmando eats tanks, and it doesn't take 12 volleys. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 502	Posted - 2015.08.14 20:52:00 - [70] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: LOL thats funny the first line is refering to your reponce of "You didn't read his post. He said a tank without its hardeners on will get wrecked by lai dais. Which, if it doesn't have a plate on is true. Maybe you should spend less time hurling swarms at dual rep maddies and actually try and get close for once." but you know what lets ignore that. and as for the rest its just so LOLZ worthy itf thats the best you can do ASSUMING you know how i play then sure why not keep telling your self that your better. Wow, between the spelling and the lack of understanding of what words mean, no wonder you can't kill tanks. How exactly does you surviving 3 av nades while sitting in a tank invalidate your claim that it can survive such? Since you decided to go all caps on about your playstyle, let me help you out once again. http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/assumption I didn't assume anything. You said you fired twelve volleys of swarms at a tank. Since you didn't make any mention of using av nades, you weren't close. Assumes i had a suit with a grenade slot. nope no slot for grenades. pleast tell me know close i was again Quote: You shouldn't all caps a word when you don't know what it means. maybe you shoud type in the correct word here let me help you Assumption =/= Assuming Quote: I can kill tanks with just proxies. I can also kill them with AV nades and a PLC. So yes, I am better than you. puts hands under chin please tell me how leetz you are in proto gear. Have garbage gun game? Throw a Core.

Megaman Trigger Ready to Play 437	Posted - 2015.08.14 20:53:00 - [71] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: General Mosquito wrote: I didn't assume anything. You said you fired twelve volleys of swarms at a tank. Since you didn't make any mention of using av nades, you weren't close. Or was running a Commando. Just sayin' Minmando eats tanks, and it doesn't take 12 volleys. Agreed that Minmanndo made a mess of vehicles, and soon the Calmanndo will take over. That said, I don't think the Galmanndo and Ammanndo can do the DPS with Swarms to drop a hardened HAV before the Hardeners give out, which I think is shorter than 12 volleys. Did PRG even specify if Proto Swarms were used or did she just say swarms and leave it ambiguous? EDIT: we're assuming race and, possibly, tier (tho that might be me) Purifier. First Class.
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 502	Posted - 2015.08.14 20:56:00 - [72] - Quote Megaman Trigger wrote: General Mosquito wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: General Mosquito wrote: I didn't assume anything. You said you fired twelve volleys of swarms at a tank. Since you didn't make any mention of using av nades, you weren't close. Or was running a Commando. Just sayin' Minmando eats tanks, and it doesn't take 12 volleys. Agreed that Minmanndo made a mess of vehicles, and soon the Calmanndo will take over. That said, I don't think the Galmanndo and Ammanndo can do the DPS with Swarms to drop a hardened HAV before the Hardeners give out, which I think is shorter than 12 volleys. Did PRG even specify if Proto Swarms were used or did she just say swarms and leave it ambiguous? no i didnt say but he is under that assumption ( correct word usage) that i was. Have garbage gun game? Throw a Core.
Megaman Trigger Ready to Play 437	Posted - 2015.08.14 20:57:00 - [73] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: General Mosquito wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: General Mosquito wrote: I didn't assume anything. You said you fired twelve volleys of swarms at a tank. Since you didn't make any mention of using av nades, you weren't close. Or was running a Commando. Just sayin' Minmando eats tanks, and it doesn't take 12 volleys. Agreed that Minmanndo made a mess of vehicles, and soon the Calmanndo will take over. That said, I don't think the Galmanndo and Ammanndo can do the DPS with Swarms to drop a hardened HAV before the Hardeners give out, which I think is shorter than 12 volleys. Did PRG even specify if Proto Swarms were used or did she just say swarms and leave it ambiguous? no i didnt say but he is under that assumption ( correct word usage) that i was. So you could have been using basic swarms on a Galmanndo, right? Purifier. First Class.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 283	Posted - 2015.08.14 20:59:00 - [74] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: no i didnt say but he is under that assumption ( correct word usage) that i was. I made no statement about the grade of the swarms, so there was no assumption in that regard. Keep trying sparky. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 283	Posted - 2015.08.14 21:00:00 - [75] - Quote Megaman Trigger wrote: So you could have been using basic swarms on a Galmanndo, right? Is that the metric we are going to use now? If someone can destroy a tank with an unbonused milita weapon then tanks are balanced? The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Megaman Trigger Ready to Play 437	Posted - 2015.08.14 21:13:00 - [76] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: So you could have been using basic swarms on a Galmanndo, right? Is that the metric we are going to use now? If someone can destroy a tank with an unbonused milita weapon then tanks are balanced? Never said that, just figuring out whar PRG used. Purifier. First Class.
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 502	Posted - 2015.08.14 21:26:00 - [77] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: So you could have been using basic swarms on a Galmanndo, right? Is that the metric we are going to use now? If someone can destroy a tank with an unbonused milita weapon then tanks are balanced? if its a mlt tank then yes. Next question. Have garbage gun game? Throw a Core.
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 502	Posted - 2015.08.14 21:31:00 - [78] - Quote Megaman Trigger wrote: General Mosquito wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: So you could have been using basic swarms on a Galmanndo, right? Is that the metric we are going to use now? If someone can destroy a tank with an unbonused milita weapon then tanks are balanced? Never said that, just figuring out whar PRG used. depends on map and who im playing with. when im alone its purple swarms on mando with a good vantage point usally engaging around 20-40m so the swarms dont do the circles around the tank or even closer if i can get a direct hit as teh swarms come out of the tube but 90% of the time its the 20-40m Have garbage gun game? Throw a Core.
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 3	Posted - 2015.08.14 21:37:00 - [79] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Maximus Mobius wrote: Do you know why we double or even triple stack armor hardeners? IT'S BECAUSE ANYTHING LESS AND WE'RE A PILE OF ROLLING SCRAP METAL!! Exactly and this is the biggest problem with low Raw HP high mitigation tanks. It leads to a behaviour that players have categorized as Redline Tanking. The reality is that it is just plain sensible to wait out your module cool downs in a 0 risk area. Long ago vehicles could passive tank. Long ago Sagari could be seen grazing in majestic herds of three with more 21K total eHP between them. Long ago Heavy Armour Repairers were Active! Those were the days now the millions of SP I have in tanks just collects DUST.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 283	Posted - 2015.08.14 21:39:00 - [80] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: depends on map and who im playing with. when im alone its purple swarms on mando with a good vantage point usally engaging around 20-40m so the swarms dont do the circles around the tank or even closer if i can get a direct hit as teh swarms come out of the tube but 90% of the time its the 20-40m "Good vantage point" = rooftop 20-40m = bullshit. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu

Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 502	Posted - 2015.08.14 21:44:00 - [81] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: depends on map and who im playing with. when im alone its purple swarms on mando with a good vantage point usally engaging around 20-40m so the swarms dont do the circles around the tank or even closer if i can get a direct hit as teh swarms come out of the tube but 90% of the time its the 20-40m "Good vantage point" = rooftop 20-40m = bullshit. Wrong on the roof top part ( although ill forge from the tops when im bored) Bullshit too i know you are a expert at it but sorry i do get 20-40m some times even closer once again please tell me more about how i play the game Have garbage gun game? Throw a Core.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 283	Posted - 2015.08.14 22:41:00 - [82] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Wrong on the roof top part ( although ill forge from the tops when im bored) Bullshit too i know you are a expert at it but sorry i do get 20-40m some times even closer once again please tell me more about how i play the game Why don't you q up a factional against me and show me your av. I need a good laugh. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 502	Posted - 2015.08.14 22:55:00 - [83] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Wrong on the roof top part ( although ill forge from the tops when im bored) Bullshit too i know you are a expert at it but sorry i do get 20-40m some times even closer once again please tell me more about how i play the game Why don't you q up a factional against me and show me your av. I need a good laugh. sure Have garbage gun game? Throw a Core.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 283	Posted - 2015.08.14 23:22:00 - [84] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: sure Send The Attorney General a mail with your faction of choice. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Symphony Soulsong Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd. 1	Posted - 2015.08.15 01:37:00 - [85] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Daddrobit wrote: And milita is literally incapable of killing any tank without the stares at my militia forge fit. stops listening to Daddrobit Wow... I mean what? I blow them to pieces and you don't? No damage mods either. Ds3 pad, no AA, and I usually practice vs Dropships... Do you not set up your target? Do you not track your shots? Do you just not try aiming? --- seriously a lot of Swarm users don't even bother learning to track a target. Do you only engage at the far end of your AV weapon? Can you not predict the (simplistic and very few) paths that a vehicle MUST take to get between targets? I'm just wondering what the REAL issue is. Look kiddo, if you're gonna make a reply to a comment, actually reading the comments you're replying to is generally considered the best practice. But in case it's just a personal comprehension disability, allow me to help you explain what was being covered a la the more simple style of a book by Dr Seuss. The Tanker and the Swarms By:Daddrobit Our fun little story will follow the dear Mr. Feind, self proclaimed Demigod! And though it might not have been true, to cross his logic meant going to his firing squad. But what Mr Fiend hated above all else was AV, and he despised it with such rancor! Yes it was patently obvious, (How could you miss it?) that this man was a self entitled tanker. He cried on the forums, "One Swarm Two Swarm Three Swarm Four" "From Standard to Officer, they hurt me so bad, I just can't take it any more!" "And who can forget Militia, oh such a horrible, devious, terrible beast!" "Yes my hardeners may have been down, but I should still get away at least?" "Who cares about things like balance, fun, or engaging gameplay?" "I'm in a tank for goodness sakes! And I am here to stay!" Oh yes he thought so very highly of himself, and he imagined it in so much blazing Glory, That he never expected, (t'was completely unforeseen) that he was not actually the hero of this story... For here it is that he does enter, the clone who calls himself Daddy Much to the despair of his victims, certainly seeing him makes them very unhappy "But wait," Daddy cried, "Stop yourself and hold long enough to let me speak." "Why would you go and attack someone when you know you yourself are very weak?" "And militia swarms aren't nearly such a beast. Surely there were a million ways to survive" "If you died going against a man using militia swarms, then you must have been taking a dive" "Even basic gives you plenty of time to run away. The first shots are merely a ticklish warning" "Eight seconds later is when you finally get into trouble, and after that is when you can really begin your mourning." "But what were you doing in all of that time? Did you not know that tanks go in reverse?" "If you simply start driving away, the swarms will become impotent, and then you won't have to open up your purse." "it must be hard to think about what I'm saying, so let me make it more simple before you start singing the blues" "Don't engage things when you know you can't win, and don't field what you can not afford to lose. And thus content and satisfied, Daddy sat back, waiting for a reply, reclining in his chair, Hoping that the next response from a tanker wouldn't be one that would make him tug out all of his hair. The End There, is that easier for you to understand? Now do not further antagonize me or I shall be forced to compose a Hynox-esque Novella between yourself, Maximus, Bad Furry, an Ion Cannon, and AV grenades... Wow, Never thought I'd see Seuss being used as a Dust reference. Intelligent and creative. I tip my hat to you Sir! :} Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd. Honour Loyalty Respect
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1	Posted - 2015.08.15 05:46:00 - [86] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Daddrobit wrote: Maximus Mobius wrote: Do you know why we double or even triple stack armor hardeners? IT'S BECAUSE ANYTHING LESS AND WE'RE A PILE OF ROLLING SCRAP METAL!! I have been tanking since beta right before uprising and I can tell you this is the weakest tanks have ever been. At least before 1.7 we had complexity and modules and turret variation to help us combat the AV. Now we have only mlt,std,adv & pro turrets with no variation. And no mlt large turret missiles. AVers even have officer weapons and a less margin to miss with forge guns and even AHMGs are capable of destroying tanks. I remember tanking before 1.7 and we had an equal fighting ground. We had powerful active modules & turret variations and even my beloved scattered Ion cannon. Now we have jack sht in variation and we have almost no way to combat redline forge gunners besides luck. So shut up your 3 milita AV nades don't instantly blow up a hardened proto maddy. "I am actively aware there is a certain fit that makes me nigh upon a God, but because there is only one* Godmode fit and I still sometimes die to officer weapons, tanks are hard to pilot." And to Proto weapons. And ADV, and STD....and MLT.....oh and if not using the Godmode, you lose 1million ISK....yea. It must be really hard firing swarms from the supply depot you just ran too I've argued that a good way to balance tanks/AV is to remove the ability to switch suits at Supply Depots. Because, that's why.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.15 08:01:00 - [87] - Quote Because forcing someone to die and lose a full fit so they can engage you, or have to trundle about in an inferior vs infantry fit on the offchance you drop a vehicle is fair. And no, commandos aren't the only AV fits worth talking about. Every obsessive tanker fanboy b*tching about commandos. Or laidais Or both, as if you could combine the two somehow. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
DUST Fiend 17	Posted - 2015.08.15 14:11:00 - [88] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Because forcing someone to die and lose a full fit so they can engage you, or have to trundle about in an inferior vs infantry fit on the offchance you drop a vehicle is fair. And no, commandos aren't the only AV fits worth talking about. Every obsessive tanker fanboy btching about commandos. Or laidais Or both, as if you could combine the two somehow. Because they can't both exist in the same match at once. I forgot as soon as a commando is deployed, all fits with lai dais become invalid. I am a beautiful space manatee, flying through the sky with the greatest of ease Swarms everywhere. WoD 514*
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.15 14:20:00 - [89] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Because forcing someone to die and lose a full fit so they can engage you, or have to trundle about in an inferior vs infantry fit on the offchance you drop a vehicle is fair. And no, commandos aren't the only AV fits worth talking about. Every obsessive tanker fanboy b*tching about commandos. Or laidais Or both, as if you could combine the two somehow. Because they can't both exist in the same match at once. I forgot as soon as a commando is deployed, all fits with lai dais become invalid. So... Teamwork is unfair, somehow? I consider that a nonfactor and automatically dismiss any complaints about vehicles exploding when dogpiled. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 284	Posted - 2015.08.15 14:31:00 - [90] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Because forcing someone to die and lose a full fit so they can engage you, or have to trundle about in an inferior vs infantry fit on the offchance you drop a vehicle is fair. And no, commandos aren't the only AV fits worth talking about. Every obsessive tanker fanboy btching about commandos. Or laidais Or both, as if you could combine the two somehow. On "fairness" : Are you just being dense, or do you think that fairness only applies for you? I doubt you would find any rational person who would say it is fair that a single minmando can deny ALL vehicles the flag area in a domination. Nonetheless, it is what we have. Hope your tanker has a sniper buddy, or infantry to go and clear that rooftop, or you might as well recall. It isn't "fair" but it is balanced. My tank versus a minmando is a losing proposition, but that minmando versus my squaddies in combat suits get rolled like a proper fatty. You running into infantry in your AV suit isn't the tankers fault, and if the tanker has infantry with him, you better bring more people. Unless your definition of fair is "I win, they lose, and I don't put myself at risk when I do it" No one forces you to spawn in an AV fit before a vehicle is on the field. That is your own foolishness, and is not an excuse for anything other than you needing some help. Breakin Stuff wrote:* Because forcing someone to die and lose a full fit so they can engage you This is the big issue. Absolutely, 100% an AV player should have to put themselves at risk to take a run at the tank to kill it. If you want single suits to be able to solo tanks, then they MUST be engageable. Allowing a single suit to dominate from long range(not swarms range, but forge) completely screws that balance. Allowing a single suit on a roof to shut down huge swaths of the map, especially given the rendering problems in this game is horrible gameplay for everyone except the forger. I know you want to be that guy, striking out from heaven in a 1400 hp fat suit, but it isn't good gameplay. Why do you think that you should have to put in no risk to kill someone who is putting ISK and their ass on the line? The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu

Megaman Trigger Ready to Play 442	Posted - 2015.08.15 15:57:00 - [91] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Because forcing someone to die and lose a full fit so they can engage you This is the big issue. Absolutely, 100% an AV player should have to put themselves at risk to take a run at the tank to kill it. If you want single suits to be able to solo tanks, then they MUST be engageable. Allowing a single suit to dominate from long range(not swarms range, but forge) completely screws that balance. Allowing a single suit on a roof to shut down huge swaths of the map, especially given the rendering problems in this game is horrible gameplay for everyone except the forger. I know you want to be that guy, striking out from heaven in a 1400 hp fat suit, but it isn't good gameplay. Why do you think that you should have to put in no risk to kill someone who is putting ISK and their ass on the line? In reference Breakin's post, he was referring to an earlier post about removing the ability for infantry to change fits a depot, which would essentially mean having to waste a fit just to be able to swap in to an AV fit, from AV to AI or even swap between AI fits. Purifier. First Class.
DUST Fiend 17	Posted - 2015.08.15 15:59:00 - [92] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Because forcing someone to die and lose a full fit so they can engage you, or have to trundle about in an inferior vs infantry fit on the offchance you drop a vehicle is fair. And no, commandos aren't the only AV fits worth talking about. Every obsessive tanker fanboy btching about commandos. Or laidais Or both, as if you could combine the two somehow. Because they can't both exist in the same match at once. I forgot as soon as a commando is deployed, all fits with lai dais become invalid. So... Teamwork is unfair, somehow? I consider that a nonfactor and automatically dismiss any complaints about vehicles exploding when dogpiled. But you act like people can't complain about one or the other simply because a single suit can't wield them both. Which is stupid. I am a beautiful space manatee, flying through the sky with the greatest of ease Swarms everywhere. WoD 514*
MrCriminal High Power Art.of.Death 186	Posted - 2015.08.15 16:43:00 - [93] - Quote Louis Domi wrote: bring back old vehicle/turret variants This. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ¤.°n+ín+ƒGÿåGùÅ°.LASERS BTCH!!!!!! Click for free stuff
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.15 18:13:00 - [94] - Quote Megaman Trigger wrote: General Mosquito wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Because forcing someone to die and lose a full fit so they can engage you This is the big issue. Absolutely, 100% an AV player should have to put themselves at risk to take a run at the tank to kill it. If you want single suits to be able to solo tanks, then they MUST be engageable. Allowing a single suit to dominate from long range(not swarms range, but forge) completely screws that balance. Allowing a single suit on a roof to shut down huge swaths of the map, especially given the rendering problems in this game is horrible gameplay for everyone except the forger. I know you want to be that guy, striking out from heaven in a 1400 hp fat suit, but it isn't good gameplay. Why do you think that you should have to put in no risk to kill someone who is putting ISK and their ass on the line? In reference Breakin's post, he was referring to an earlier post about removing the ability for infantry to change fits a depot, which would essentially mean having to waste a fit just to be able to swap in to an AV fit, from AV to AI or even swap between AI fits. Don't tell him that. He was on a roll and I was laughing my ass off as the point flew right over his head. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.15 18:26:00 - [95] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: But you act like people can't complain about one or the other simply because a single suit can't wield them both. Which is stupid. No, people tend to complain about them concurrently. Ahem... allow me to sing the many songs of the vehicle driver... "It's not fair if a single infantryman can destroy my (insert vehicle here) solo. It should require teamwork." "AV is overpowered because I die instantly if three people launch swarms/forge shot/angry kindergarteners simultaneously." One demanding teamwork. And by and large you got your fecking wish. Then claiming AV is overpowered because ganging up and butchering you is somehow unfair. Complaining that AV can deny you access to a whole sector of the map they are in. Last I checked, that's kinda why it exists. AV is too easy to get, everyone on the battlefield can use it! I really don't know how to respond to that much stupid in one sentence. I dunno how you all say it's hard I use AV and it's easy to destroy any vehicle. It's trivial with my militia forge... This is a bald-faced lie from someone who apparently can't even cook up a good bullsh*t story. Vehicles aren't the problem in my opinion. Vehicles can be balanced and made fair. However, the drivers can't be, and the instant a vehicle can be killed the cries go out about how useless it now is. Whenever vehicles are clearly OP and allow even mediocre and crapass pilots to go 30/1 the claim is "nope that's totally fair" go out. Vehicles aren't the obstacle of balance. The drivers are. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 285	Posted - 2015.08.15 18:46:00 - [96] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Don't tell him that. He was on a roll and I was laughing my ass off as the point flew right over his head. So you were laughing your ass off because you didn't quote your reference? Damn, you must be having a blast when you are out not killing tanks. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 285	Posted - 2015.08.15 18:47:00 - [97] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Whenever vehicles are clearly OP and allow even mediocre and crapass pilots to go 30/1 the claim is "nope that's totally fair" go out. Vehicles aren't the obstacle of balance. The drivers are. OK, well since I know you are craptastic at AV, are you willing to but your rear in a tank that I give you and go 30/1? The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.15 18:49:00 - [98] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Whenever vehicles are clearly OP and allow even mediocre and crapass pilots to go 30/1 the claim is "nope that's totally fair" go out. Vehicles aren't the obstacle of balance. The drivers are. OK, well since I know you are craptastic at AV, are you willing to but your rear in a tank that I give you and go 30/1? You seem to be under the delusion that I don't actually drive tanks. I don't drive them on this, my infantry-focused character. But sure, you keep thinking that I don't know what I'm talking about,chuckles. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 285	Posted - 2015.08.15 18:51:00 - [99] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Vehicles aren't the problem in my opinion. Vehicles can be balanced and made fair. However, the drivers can't be, and the instant a vehicle can be killed the cries go out about how useless it now is. Vehicles can be killed now, and I'm arguing for AV buffs. Please tell me again how all drivers are the problem. Maybe the scrubs who drive lavs into a horde of tanks and infantry and then complain about unstoppable tanks might be part of the problem as well? No, of course not. But as everyone here will not, Breakin will refuse to prove how easy it is for a scrub to dominate in a tank, because it would completely invalidate his thesis when he loses 6 or 7 tanks a match. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1	Posted - 2015.08.15 18:52:00 - [100] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Because forcing someone to die and lose a full fit so they can engage you, or have to trundle about in an inferior vs infantry fit on the offchance you drop a vehicle is fair. And no, commandos aren't the only AV fits worth talking about. Every obsessive tanker fanboy b*tching about commandos. Or laidais Or both, as if you could combine the two somehow. Yes, I think it is really fair. It is part of the strategy of a team just like choosing whether to be logi, scout, heavy, assault. They all have their uses and the choices we make should be a big factor in what happens, we shouldn't be able to just change thise choices on a whim. Because, that's why.

General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 285	Posted - 2015.08.15 18:53:00 - [101] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: You seem to be under the delusion that I don't actually drive tanks. I don't drive them on this, my infantry-focused character. But sure, you keep thinking that I don't know what I'm talking about,chuckles. Name your tanking alt. We can check the stats. But of course better proof is you getting in a squad with me and showing me. Otherwise you are just talking sh*t to deflect from your lack of an actual argument. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 19:27:00 - [102] - Quote Maximus Mobius wrote: Louis Domi wrote: I say Nerf everything. AV HAV ABC TNT CBS. Buff ADS and bring back old vehicle/turret variants I say actually put time into it and make it a level playing field. They don't want a level playing field, they need the handheld asteroids and gamma ray blasts to destroy vehicles. PS3 is back in its box.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.15 19:29:00 - [103] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Name your tanking alt. We can check the stats. But of course better proof is you getting in a squad with me and showing me. Otherwise you are just talking sht to deflect from your lack of an actual argument. I've made all my arguments over the last two years, sorry you're a latecomer to the game, mosquito. Bluntly I don't feel a particular need to justify myself to you. Tank driving is fcking boring. It puts me to fcking sleep, because it's not compelling gameplay. it hasn't BEEN compelling gameplay since chromosome when I had active reps and passive hardeners, overdrives and other fun crap. Also I don't use swarms, ever. I use a forge gun. and the only tank drivers who die to a forge gun nowadays are the most stone-cold, STUPID people who ever tried to roll an HAV. Anyone with a modicum of common sense, and a willingness to bug out when they feel the first impact from an unknown angle can be literally unkillable. If you run double hardeners, double reps, and they are running it is mathematically impossible to kill them while the hardeners are up except in one singular edge case which requires a clean backshot in close with three laidais and a PLC directly into the weakspot. One edge-case fitting is not indicative of balance. Further, the gunnlogi shield nerf shouldn't have happened concurrently with the madrugar buff. It also had unforseen (except to the dropship pilots) consequences to the python, and standard dropships, resulting in a mass-evacuation to Incubus Master Race. Dropships are the only vehicle I can't use with any reasonable level of competence. I just suck with them. Doesn't really bother me that they're hard to hit when the pilot goes evasive, I figure I'll get 'em eventually. The madrugar is currently the poster child for being out of balance whack. The gunnlogi is entirely too vulnerable to armor striking weapons and the overall balance point should be somewhere between the two. Currently my weapon of choice is the forge gun, with a side order of PLC. Swarms *** me off intensely because they're one of those weapons where there is a razor edge of balance, and I don't believe they can reasonably be fixed without a total mechanical overhaul. Forge gun RoF is too low to significantly threaten many HAVs solo. PLC is too short ranged, and the combination of myofibs with AV just creates issues that fundamentally annoy me. I fight tanks on the ground, and rarely bother high perching for longer than three minutes, because rather like driving tanks, it's boring and puts me to sleep. I chuckle whenever someone claims that a militia forge is an easy way to kill tanks. Sure it is, in groups of four. I've done the tank hunting thing with a standard forge gun before. Anyone who claims it's trivial is lying, and not creatively. I've done the math for madrugars, gunnlogis, and every AV weapon and concieved AV weapon you can care to name, including projected time to kill when the hardeners are up. Currently the minimum engagement time for a single-hardened Madrugar Gv.0 at 30% hardener with an IAFG solo is somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 shots, assuming no backshots and the forge gunner does not miss a single shot. If the rate of fire of the IAFG drops to 2.5 base, that number drops to seven. Minimum TTK against a driver whom denies weakpoint spots is in excess of 35 seconds. Any driver who dies in that timeframe is a fcking idiot. Swarms are sht. A double-hardened, double repped madrugar is 100% immune to death from a single IAFG gunner with maximum skill. While yes, the IAFG will get the madrugar below 50%, as soon as the reload time hits, even maxed, the madrugar will recover to 100% armor before the reload cycle ends. If the forge gun continues to engage, the madrugar will drop below 20%, and again recover to full armor by the time the next reload cycle ends. All of the most recent complaints by tank driver is that Infantry are ganging up and bombarding them with multiple AV. Well, this is what you said you wanted since Closed Beta. You wanted it to take more than one guy to kill you. In 1.7 you got your wish. Currently you still have your granted wish. And because of it, everyone and their brother feels that unless they have a proto AV weapon to focus fire on you in their inventory, they have to relive chrome marauders, or 1.7 with vehicle drivers claiming that yes, it is fair that I am unkillable by you, and yes, it is fair for me to slaughter you like a god-possessed combine harvester in a wheat field. Let me be blunt. The only way my madrugars die is if I get ganged up on or I get clipped by another tank. Don't try to impress me with how hard it is. There is no solo enemy who can kill my HAVs, I know how to escape/corner/kill them. All I gotta ask myself is "How would I kill me?" and the solution usually presents itself in seconds. there are a few simple truths in the eternal question of AV/V: 1: The lack of full racial parity in both vehicles and the AV weapons means balance is nothing more than a sweet fever dream. 2: No, HAVs do not need teamwork to kill in order to be fair. a single skilled tank driver should be roughly equaled by a single skilled AV gunner. 3: All vehicles cost somewhere between 4 and 6 times what they should cost if they get properly balanced. The ISK cost is not a balance metric, but it should reflect the utility of the target. 4: I am not some idiot newbie who's taking his first walk around the park. I have seen every idiotic iteration of AV/V since just before the chrome release. Every one of them has been idiotic. Rattati has been the first dev interested in firing for some level of balance, and the drivers hate him for it. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 19:29:00 - [104] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Sometimes I wonder if this game would not be in 10x better condition if they had left out vehicles instead of racial heavy weapons. Seriously look at the incredible amount of time and energy that has been wasted in a couple of years for the same moronic back and forth to still be going on. It's because infantry incessantly cried about vehicles, and how they couldn't nuke them with one volley from MLT swarms, thus the reason vehicles have been dragged through the mud for so long, and pilots being treated like second class citizens. PS3 is back in its box.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 19:31:00 - [105] - Quote Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: The tanks are supposed to go to the redline for module cool downs, it's vehicles form of out of play, infantry have the spawn que, vehicles have module cool downs in safe territory. Vehicles =/= infantry PS3 is back in its box.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 19:32:00 - [106] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Daddrobit wrote: Maximus Mobius wrote: Do you know why we double or even triple stack armor hardeners? IT'S BECAUSE ANYTHING LESS AND WE'RE A PILE OF ROLLING SCRAP METAL!! I have been tanking since beta right before uprising and I can tell you this is the weakest tanks have ever been. At least before 1.7 we had complexity and modules and turret variation to help us combat the AV. Now we have only mlt,std,adv & pro turrets with no variation. And no mlt large turret missiles. AVers even have officer weapons and a less margin to miss with forge guns and even AHMGs are capable of destroying tanks. I remember tanking before 1.7 and we had an equal fighting ground. We had powerful active modules & turret variations and even my beloved scattered Ion cannon. Now we have jack sht in variation and we have almost no way to combat redline forge gunners besides luck. So shut up your 3 milita AV nades don't instantly blow up a hardened proto maddy. "I am actively aware there is a certain fit that makes me nigh upon a God, but because there is only one* Godmode fit and I still sometimes die to officer weapons, tanks are hard to pilot." And to Proto weapons. And ADV, and STD....and MLT.....oh and if not using the Godmode, you lose 1million ISK....yea. It must be really hard firing swarms from the supply depot you just ran too First off, why are you engaging an enemy supply depot without at all without your hardeners? Any time you ever engage an enemy knowing you are going in without support or the ability to self sustain, YOU are entirely at fault for ANY losses you sustain, no matter the isk cost. This holds true for any class in the game and tankers should not be special butterflys in this regard at all. And milita is literally incapable of killing any tank without the tanker actively trying to lose the tank. Even a basic with max proficiency on a maxed commando with 3 proto damage mods, you can not die to a single clip even without hardeners or plates, and you have well over 8 seconds to GTFO before you start getting hit with the second clip. And would you look at that, at 8 seconds, you're 180 meters away and are completely incapable of even being locked on by the swarmers. It must be really hard for you to hold the stick backwards for 8 seconds and or get behind any of the plentiful nearby cover at all and be completely safe outside of a swarmers lock on. Or, you know, wait for your invincibility timer to cool down and -then- engage. Cry Moar. I guess you forgot about the 175 meter lock on range. The reason pilots destroy depots is so infantry can't simply run to them to switch suits; they have to die to be able to switch suits. PS3 is back in its box.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 19:33:00 - [107] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Do you not set up your target? - too hard Do you not track your shots? - too hard Do you just not try aiming? - too hard Do you only engage at the far end of your AV weapon? - too stupid Can you not predict the (simplistic and very few) paths that a vehicle MUST take to get between targets? - too hard I'm just wondering what the REAL issue is. PS3 is back in its box.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 19:35:00 - [108] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Came for tears and lies. Left with a water truck fleet load. Nice rant post. Madrugars are OP. Suck it. Predictably, there's the spreadsheet warrior who doesn't play, and who can't explain his statements. PS3 is back in its box.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 19:36:00 - [109] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Its all so funny that the only tankers to ever openly complain on the forums were all so known as some of the worst tankers in the game. In dust balance will never happen but we should remind you to git gud. We all did. And where does this "worst tankers in the game" come from? Half rarely played. They literally have no experience to back up their claims as to who's bad and who isn't. PS3 is back in its box.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 285	Posted - 2015.08.15 19:37:00 - [110] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Whole bunch of fluff to avoid the requested proof. If tanks are as OP as you say, then provide your tanker alts name, surely he has a 20:1 K:D ratio. Now a good K:d isn't everything, but as you said, you don't die unless you get a tank interfering with your business. Of course you won't though, because your stats won't match your claims. Or you could demonstrate to me personally, but you won't, because you can't take getting laughed at when you muppet the whip. I appreciate that you took the trouble to type that out, but it doesn't mitigate you dodging a simple question. That says so much more than that wall of text. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.15 19:37:00 - [111] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Came for tears and lies. Left with a water truck fleet load. Nice rant post. Madrugars are OP. Suck it. Predictably, there's the spreadsheet warrior who doesn't play, and who can't explain his statements. Predictably, the broken record returns to regale us all with empty posts, haughty statements and meaningless talking points. Welcome back spkr. Feel free to go crawl into the box with your PS3. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 19:38:00 - [112] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Its all so funny that the only tankers to ever openly complain on the forums were all so known as some of the worst tankers in the game. In dust balance will never happen but we should remind you to git gud. Honestly the brazilian tankers that never post on the forum seem to be the nastiest customers. They probably post on their own forums. Can you understand Portuguese? When I used to play, their whole squad would go AV. It was never just one, it was all of them. They had no qualms about doing everything possible to destroy vehicles. Dunno why English-speaking players have such a huge problem destroying vehicles, and fully believe they should be able to lone wolf a pilot with two years' worth of experience. PS3 is back in its box.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.15 19:39:00 - [113] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Whole bunch of fluff to avoid the requested proof. If tanks are as OP as you say, then provide your tanker alts name, surely he has a 20:1 K:D ratio. Now a good K:d isn't everything, but as you said, you don't die unless you get a tank interfering with your business. Of course you won't though, because your stats won't match your claims. Or you could demonstrate to me personally, but you won't, because you can't take getting laughed at when you muppet the whip. I appreciate that you took the trouble to type that out, but it doesn't mitigate you dodging a simple question. That says so much more than that wall of text. best you bring to the table is "this is what happens with me, therefore your points are irrelevant." Why should I put more effort into refuting you than you put into proving a point? So far you haven't put out a single point of testable evidence to back your claim, nor have you answered any point I have ever made. As far as evasiveness, your glass house is cracking from all the rocks you're throwing. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 288	Posted - 2015.08.15 19:39:00 - [114] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Sometimes I wonder if this game would not be in 10x better condition if they had left out vehicles instead of racial heavy weapons. Seriously look at the incredible amount of time and energy that has been wasted in a couple of years for the same moronic back and forth to still be going on. It's because infantry incessantly cried about vehicles, and how they couldn't nuke them with one volley from MLT swarms, thus the reason vehicles have been dragged through the mud for so long, and pilots being treated like second class citizens. And you certainly didn't help. because even when tanks were OP as all get out, you were acting like they were fine. There is a place for rational discussion about balance matters, and you are not a person who should be included, because you refuse under any circumstances to be objective. You are just as bad, if not worse than the people who cry and whine about tanks being OP. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 19:39:00 - [115] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: They really didn't have much reason to complain. The one guy I put a buttshot into with a FG did an IMMEDIATE 90 degree turn and proceeded to eat the rest of my shots to the hull like a child in a gummi bear factory. By the time I reloaded he was gone and back to max armor. Should've used a breach forge instead of a MLT forge. It was entirely hilarious and enraging all at once. For all the whining about hispanics and south americans people vomit out, some of them absolutely know how to run the tanks for max effect. And the good ones aren't the ones stutter-warping from lag. Because they use teamwork and anything and everything necessary to wipe out enemy vehicles. English-speakers just cry that they can't destroy vehicles easily with MLT AV. PS3 is back in its box.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 19:41:00 - [116] - Quote Megaman Trigger wrote: Buff raw HP, tone down Hardeners, move Heavy Reps to Active rather than Passive. Would that balance (or at least start to balance) HAVs so that they're 1. No longer completely vulnerable and squishy without Hardeners and 2. No longer nigh on invincible /godmode with Hardeners.? All CCP ever did was nerf hardeners due to the incessant whining from infantry. The first time they were ever buffed was when Rattati did the big vehicle sweep. PS3 is back in its box.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 19:43:00 - [117] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Maximus Mobius wrote: Beld Errmon wrote: heh did you just lose a bunch of prototanks before posting this? I got proto tanks to burn but no I didn't. I did this since if a tanker doesn't actively have A hardener on, he will get wrecked by 3 packed Lai Dai AV nades. I'm annoyed at the "Tanks are too op" mindset the AV group has. LOL funny because all i see are tankers complain that AV is OP , LOL 3 Lai Dais ive been in tanks that laugh at that hell ive been against tanks that let me get 12 swarm vollies and it acted like CCP adding full racial variants " meh We will get to it soon(TM)" Those were probably STD AV grenades. PS3 is back in its box.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 19:46:00 - [118] - Quote Devadander wrote: No matter the build, a tank with no hardeners is dead. We have little choice but to be OP. Zero variety. Gunni can't hang ATM. Running any fit other than dual or better hardened maddy is asking to lose isk. XT trip damage missiles do squat against a trip hardened maddy. I don't rail so idk. The majesty here is the fact that infantry complaints brought us to this era. Stripped of all our wonderful mods and turrets, hulls, and other vehicles; its no wonder we run as powerful as we can and punish infantry any chance we get. With the bumper physics fix, LLAV could make a comeback. But no, its a murder taxi LDS could make a comeback with all the pythons and officer forges/swarms out there. But no, they are unkillable. SLAV was overlooked but one of my faves. Honestly nobody has ever cried about them for any reason lol. (except me, about getting gta style air then instapopping upon landing) ADS could still be a tank hunter, but n.... Actually, I think us tankers cried on that one. But with max skills on pilot and gunner they could eviscerate a maxed HAV with a MLT turret. Just CCP overdid it with that "balance pass"... We used to run in packs and graze majestically upon each other. Ran into a rail maddy with my gunni recently, and had to actually blink the crust away for a true battle against True lol. He was using driving skill, and tactics on me. I wasn't sure if I had fallen asleep playing and dreamt it or not. Long story is long. Pretty sure I speak for all true operators when I say that the current vehicle meta is BORING! "Who's epeen is harder?..." RUNAWAYRUNAWAYRUNAWAY Fun... Adamance actually played the game? And just when I stopped playing too... He has driving skill? I find that hard to believe. He's half against vehicles, makes me believe has little experience in vehicles. PS3 is back in its box.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 293	Posted - 2015.08.15 19:52:00 - [119] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: best you bring to the table is "this is what happens with me, therefore your points are irrelevant." Why should I put more effort into refuting you than you put into proving a point? So far you haven't put out a single point of testable evidence to back your claim, nor have you answered any point I have ever made. As far as evasiveness, your glass house is cracking from all the rocks you're throwing. Your the person making claims about tanks being unstoppable. Your the person saying you never die in your tank to AV. All you have to do is provide a toon name for your tanker to back that up. That you won't suggests that you don't have the numbers to back up your claims. Not that numbers alone tell the whole story, but it would at least give us a statistical basis to work from. You say that I am dismissive of other people points, when in this very thread I acknowledge that the FG needs a buff to either ROF or alpha, and that AV grenades might even use a slight buff, but I am the one being obtuse? Bluntly, either put up or shut up. You say you tank, give us the name. You say you don't die, lets see you do it. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.15 19:54:00 - [120] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: best you bring to the table is "this is what happens with me, therefore your points are irrelevant." Why should I put more effort into refuting you than you put into proving a point? So far you haven't put out a single point of testable evidence to back your claim, nor have you answered any point I have ever made. As far as evasiveness, your glass house is cracking from all the rocks you're throwing. Your the person making claims about tanks being unstoppable. Your the person saying you never die in your tank to AV. All you have to do is provide a toon name for your tanker to back that up. That you won't suggests that you don't have the numbers to back up your claims. Not that numbers alone tell the whole story, but it would at least give us a statistical basis to work from. You say that I am dismissive of other people points, when in this very thread I acknowledge that the FG needs a buff to either ROF or alpha, and that AV grenades might even use a slight buff, but I am the one being obtuse? Bluntly, either put up or shut up. You say you tank, give us the name. You say you don't die, lets see you do it. I never said I don't die, I said I don't die to solo Av. Gang ups are working as intended. Nice to see you can read what's actually written. Or... am i wrong and getting hit by five swarms, a forge and a plasma cannon simultaneously and pretty much instapopping is... unfair? I thought it was good coordination. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.

Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 19:55:00 - [121] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Because forcing someone to die and lose a full fit so they can engage you, or have to trundle about in an inferior vs infantry fit on the offchance you drop a vehicle is fair. Might as well make it so vehicles can't destroy turret installations. One bad idea after another from you. PS3 is back in its box.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 19:57:00 - [122] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Because forcing someone to die and lose a full fit so they can engage you, or have to trundle about in an inferior vs infantry fit on the offchance you drop a vehicle is fair. And no, commandos aren't the only AV fits worth talking about. Every obsessive tanker fanboy b*tching about commandos. Or laidais Or both, as if you could combine the two somehow. Because they can't both exist in the same match at once. I forgot as soon as a commando is deployed, all fits with lai dais become invalid. So... Teamwork is unfair, somehow? I consider that a nonfactor and automatically dismiss any complaints about vehicles exploding when dogpiled. Infantry have been crying for years that it shouldn't take teamwork to destroy a vehicle. Pilots don't complain when infantry uses teamwork against them. They say 'well played' and take out another one. PS3 is back in its box.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 19:59:00 - [123] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: General Mosquito wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Because forcing someone to die and lose a full fit so they can engage you This is the big issue. Absolutely, 100% an AV player should have to put themselves at risk to take a run at the tank to kill it. If you want single suits to be able to solo tanks, then they MUST be engageable. Allowing a single suit to dominate from long range(not swarms range, but forge) completely screws that balance. Allowing a single suit on a roof to shut down huge swaths of the map, especially given the rendering problems in this game is horrible gameplay for everyone except the forger. I know you want to be that guy, striking out from heaven in a 1400 hp fat suit, but it isn't good gameplay. Why do you think that you should have to put in no risk to kill someone who is putting ISK and their ass on the line? In reference Breakin's post, he was referring to an earlier post about removing the ability for infantry to change fits a depot, which would essentially mean having to waste a fit just to be able to swap in to an AV fit, from AV to AI or even swap between AI fits. Don't tell him that. He was on a roll and I was laughing my ass off as the point flew right over his head. Your lackadaisical point didn't fly over his head, you just choose to ignore points that counter yours. PS3 is back in its box.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:00:00 - [124] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Don't tell him that. He was on a roll and I was laughing my ass off as the point flew right over his head. So you were laughing your ass off because you didn't quote your reference? Damn, you must be having a blast when you are out not killing tanks. He has to play the game to destroy tanks, not point out how spreadsheets should be the only factor in determining numbers for vehicles and AV. PS3 is back in its box.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 294	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:02:00 - [125] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I've made all my arguments over the last two years, sorry you're a latecomer to the game, mosquito. Bluntly I don't feel a particular need to justify myself to you. umm, I've been playing since closed beta, and tanking since just before release. There are few tankers left in this game with as much experience as me in both tanking and AV. My stats back up my excellence in tanking, my performance in PC attests to my skills. When you were bumming around in pubs I was fighting against Imperfects and their tankers, and coming out ahead. When you were telling tankers to HTFU during the LLAV AV nades spikefest, I was tanking in PC's breaking my wallet, and doing the damn thing. When tankers had legitimate complaints about swarms and FG users on rooftops not rendering, you were talking that HTFU crap because it was in your interest to not have a balanced game. When tanks were massively OP, I was posting about recommended nerfs. So yes, you do need to justify your position, especially if you want to be taken seriously. But I don't think you do. You are just a crybaby scrub who wants to pretend he knows something. You can very easily change that, just give us your tanker alts name, or log him in and squad with me and show me how you dominate and never die. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:05:00 - [126] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: General Mosquito wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Don't tell him that. He was on a roll and I was laughing my ass off as the point flew right over his head. So you were laughing your ass off because you didn't quote your reference? Damn, you must be having a blast when you are out not killing tanks. He has to play the game to destroy tanks, not point out how spreadsheets should be the only factor in determining numbers for vehicles and AV. Goddamn, I just realized how boring reading your posts is. Like a skipped record. Same post, over and over and over and over... Trying to figure out how the f*ck I never realized it before. In any case, welcome back, I look forward to your empty posting at all points in the future. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 294	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:06:00 - [127] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: He has to play the game to destroy tanks, not point out how spreadsheets should be the only factor in determining numbers for vehicles and AV. I saw him in game a few weeks back. He drove an untanked LAV into 2 tanks and a balster turret, while I was on his flank with a rail. I felt sorry for the blueberry that was riding with him, but he was going to die when he went around the corner anyway. That is his elite level AV at work. I would love to see his tanking lol. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 294	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:07:00 - [128] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: In any case, welcome back, I look forward to your empty posting at all points in the future. And yours have substance? You won't even post your tanker alt to back up your claims of being nigh unkillable and dominating matches. Pot, meet kettle. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:07:00 - [129] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: He has to play the game to destroy tanks, not point out how spreadsheets should be the only factor in determining numbers for vehicles and AV. I saw him in game a few weeks back. He drove an untanked LAV into 2 tanks and a balster turret, while I was on his flank with a rail. I felt sorry for the blueberry that was riding with him, but he was going to die when he went around the corner anyway. That is his elite level AV at work. I would love to see his tanking lol. I rammed the tank BECAUSE the blueberry was in the LAV with me. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 295	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:10:00 - [130] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I rammed the tank BECAUSE the blueberry was in the LAV with me. You didn't even make it to the corner before I one shot you. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu

Megaman Trigger Ready to Play 443	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:11:00 - [131] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: Buff raw HP, tone down Hardeners, move Heavy Reps to Active rather than Passive. Would that balance (or at least start to balance) HAVs so that they're 1. No longer completely vulnerable and squishy without Hardeners and 2. No longer nigh on invincible /godmode with Hardeners.? All CCP ever did was nerf hardeners due to the incessant whining from infantry. The first time they were ever buffed was when Rattati did the big vehicle sweep. So Hardeners were UP for a long while before Ratatti gave them a look over. Toning them down (lower resistance, higher fitting costs or hard cap, one of the three), adding a passive resistance, higher raw HP, Active Heavy Reps. Would that be balanced? Not fragile without Hardeners, not invincible with. Purifier. First Class.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:12:00 - [132] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: In any case, welcome back, I look forward to your empty posting at all points in the future. And yours have substance? You won't even post your tanker alt to back up your claims of being nigh unkillable and dominating matches. Pot, meet kettle. Been playing since beta? On what character? Sorry, but if you're going to claim you're a badass post on your main, or a character I've at least seen before. Or posted on. Or I give a crap about how you fought the imps, everyone fought the imps, and some people whined about it harder than others. Tell ya what, pubbie. You put a little more effort into proving your points, and I'll give you the time of day, ok? Until then, you're a newcomer with a loud mouth who has put zero work into helping the discussion about HAV balance, instead trying to refute any point that says, Madrugars are unbalanced. You want me to take you seriously enough to care? What, if anything do you think it will take for AV/V balance? Skip swarms. The goddamn things can't be balanced without making them OP or useless trash. They aren't worth discussing unless that discussion involves a dev uttering the words "So we're going to completely rebuild swarm launchers from the ground up..." WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 295	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:13:00 - [133] - Quote Honestly, I am just glad we have firmly established Breakin as someone who refuses to answer straight up questions. Anyone want to take a bet that his "tanker" alt has a K:D under two? The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:14:00 - [134] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I rammed the tank BECAUSE the blueberry was in the LAV with me. You didn't even make it to the corner before I one shot you. because blowing up an LAV is... Hard? You skilled monster you. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:15:00 - [135] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Honestly, I am just glad we have firmly established Breakin as someone who refuses to answer straight up questions. Anyone want to take a bet that his "tanker" alt has a K:D under two? If you'd actually been on the forums longer than the last what, two, three months? You'd know the answer. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 295	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:15:00 - [136] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Been playing since beta? On what character? Sorry, but if you're going to claim you're a badass post on your main, or a character I've at least seen before. Or posted on. Or I give a crap about how you fought the imps, everyone fought the imps, and some people whined about it harder than others. Tell ya what, pubbie. You put a little more effort into proving your points, and I'll give you the time of day, ok? Until then, you're a newcomer with a loud mouth who has put zero work into helping the discussion about HAV balance, instead trying to refute any point that says, Madrugars are unbalanced. You want me to take you seriously enough to care? What, if anything do you think it will take for AV/V balance? Skip swarms. The goddamn things can't be balanced without making them OP or useless trash. They aren't worth discussing unless that discussion involves a dev uttering the words "So we're going to completely rebuild swarm launchers from the ground up..." The Attorney General - Tanker GeneralButtNaked - Prof 5 FG heavy, biomassed awhile back to be remade in eve. Turn on signatures bro. I don't hide who I am. I'm proud of my tanking endeavours. Now tell us who your tanker is, and I'll give you a detailed post about what to do with tanks and AV, beyond the myriad suggestions I have made elsewhere, and even in this very thread. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:17:00 - [137] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: "It's not fair if a single infantryman can destroy my (insert vehicle here) solo. It should require teamwork." Why should a suit with a few million SP be able to easily destroy a vehicle with 60 million SP and over 1 million ISK sunk into it? That's the pilot community's gripe, which you have always countered with no logical reason. "AV is overpowered because I die instantly if three people launch swarms/forge shot/angry kindergarteners simultaneously." Pilots don't complain about infantry using teamwork. One demanding teamwork. And by and large you got your fecking wish. Then claiming AV is overpowered because ganging up and butchering you is somehow unfair. See above Complaining that AV can deny you access to a whole sector of the map they are in. Last I checked, that's kinda why it exists. Infantry were crying bloody murder and declaring the end of Dust when CCP nerfed the lockon range from 400m to 175m. AV is too easy to get, everyone on the battlefield can use it! See above about differences in SP required to run an AV suit vs a vehicle to withstand AV. I really don't know how to respond to that much stupid in one sentence. Pilots don't talk stupid, infantry does. I dunno how you all say it's hard I use AV and it's easy to destroy any vehicle. It's trivial with my militia forge... You say you're able to destroy vehicles with MLT forge guns; probably LAVs. Then you cry that a MLT forge can't destroy a tank with 60mil SP and 1mil ISK sunk into it. This is a bald-faced lie from someone who apparently can't even cook up a good bullsht story. It's not a story, it's critical thinking.* Vehicles aren't the problem in my opinion. Vehicles are all paper and no tiger. Vehicles can be balanced and made fair. Fair to you is "armor tanks should have 1500 base armor and no blaster turrets at all, barring that they should be removed;" "LAVs should have 500 total HP, barring that they should be removed;" "ADS should have 1500 total HP and terrible aim, barring that they should be removed." That, from what I've seen of your nonsensical posts and never factoring in experience and demanding that vehicles and AV be balanced around the lowest common denominator, which is infantry with less than 3 mil SP and STD level AV. However, the drivers can't be, The ones with actual experience have the complaint that merely one person shouldn't have the power of an asteroid in their pocket in the form of AV grenades. and the instant a vehicle can be killed the cries go out about how useless it now is. Vehicles are paper. Whenever vehicles are clearly OP Vehicles never have been and never will be OP. They were their own best counter during Chromosome, and if there wasn't a pilot on either team, but 2 or more on one side, that's the way the dice were rolled as far as matchmaking went. Vehicles and AV shouldn't be balanced on the hypothetical that one side has a total of 10 pilots with 40mil or more SP into vehicles for each one, and the other has no pilots at all. That goes further than lack of balance, and is more towards an irrational hatred of vehicles. and allow even mediocre and crapass pilots to go 30/1 the claim is "nope that's totally fair" go out. All while completely ignoring any and all pilots with a year or more of experience. It's always "this noob tanker shouldn't be able to survive my MLT AV." It's never "this experienced tanker with 50mil SP is able to brush off my MLT, so maybe I should skill into PRO AV to take out that pilot." Vehicles aren't the obstacle of balance. The drivers are. [i]It always has been and always will be infantry crying about vehicles being able to shrug off MLT AV. If not that, then it's a pilot with 50mil SP into vehicles and years of experience not being allowed to escape danger due to, again, experience and fast enough reflexes with a broken wheel of doom system. PS3 is back in its box.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 295	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:18:00 - [138] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: because blowing up an LAV is... Hard? You skilled monster you. The point of that anecdote is that you are such an idiot you drove an untanked LAV around on a map where there had already been both an 80gj Particle Cannon and 2 Ion Cannons in the killfeed. It was more in mockery of your foolishness than a statement of my skill. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:19:00 - [139] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: General Mosquito wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Whenever vehicles are clearly OP and allow even mediocre and crapass pilots to go 30/1 the claim is "nope that's totally fair" go out. Vehicles aren't the obstacle of balance. The drivers are. OK, well since I know you are craptastic at AV, are you willing to but your rear in a tank that I give you and go 30/1? You seem to be under the delusion that I don't actually drive tanks. I don't drive them on this, my infantry-focused character. But sure, you keep thinking that I don't know what I'm talking about,chuckles. Everything I've been seeing you type for ~2 years shows me that you have no idea as to what you're talking about when it comes to actually piloting a vehicle. PS3 is back in its box.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:21:00 - [140] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Been playing since beta? On what character? Sorry, but if you're going to claim you're a badass post on your main, or a character I've at least seen before. Or posted on. Or I give a crap about how you fought the imps, everyone fought the imps, and some people whined about it harder than others. Tell ya what, pubbie. You put a little more effort into proving your points, and I'll give you the time of day, ok? Until then, you're a newcomer with a loud mouth who has put zero work into helping the discussion about HAV balance, instead trying to refute any point that says, Madrugars are unbalanced. You want me to take you seriously enough to care? What, if anything do you think it will take for AV/V balance? Skip swarms. The goddamn things can't be balanced without making them OP or useless trash. They aren't worth discussing unless that discussion involves a dev uttering the words "So we're going to completely rebuild swarm launchers from the ground up..." The Attorney General - Tanker GeneralButtNaked - Prof 5 FG heavy, biomassed awhile back to be remade in eve. Turn on signatures bro. I don't hide who I am. I'm proud of my tanking endeavours. Now tell us who your tanker is, and I'll give you a detailed post about what to do with tanks and AV, beyond the myriad suggestions I have made elsewhere, and even in this very thread. Nah, I'd rather just string you along and let you think I'm lying. If you had a detailed idea how to balance the two, you'd have posted it at some point. But for the funzies, because I want to watch spkr4thedead foam at the mouth: Some reading materiel. I imagine it'll make most drivers mad. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.

General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 298	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:22:00 - [141] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Everything I've been seeing you type for ~2 years shows me that you have no idea as to what you're talking about when it comes to actually piloting a vehicle. Of course not, if he even has a tanker alt, it has an empty wallet and a shoddy K:D and W/L ratio. He won't ever back up his claims of his tanking dominance, because it is a myth he needs to tell to pretend like he is objective. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Megaman Trigger Ready to Play 443	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:22:00 - [142] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: [i]"It's not fair if a single infantryman can destroy my (insert vehicle here) solo. It should require teamwork." Why should a suit with a few million SP be able to easily destroy a vehicle with 60 million SP and over 1 million ISK sunk into it? That's the pilot community's gripe, which you have always countered with no logical reason. Actually Spkr, Breakin has said, multiple times in other threads, that vehicles need either a drop in ISK cost or SP investment, depending on if they're supposed to be a dedicated role just like Assault, Logi, Sentinel are roles (drop the ISK costs) or a freely available temporary power-up (drop the SP cost) Purifier. First Class.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:24:00 - [143] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Came for tears and lies. Left with a water truck fleet load. Nice rant post. Madrugars are OP. Suck it. Predictably, there's the spreadsheet warrior who doesn't play, and who can't explain his statements. Predictably, the broken record returns to regale us all with empty posts, haughty statements and meaningless talking points. Welcome back spkr. Feel free to go crawl into the box with your PS3. "Broken record" So continuing to cite my experience vs AV is being a broken record? Actually telling infantry how to destroy vehicles is being a broken record - and I was nowhere near the only one. Quite a few pilots have told infantry how to destroy vehicles, but literally every single time they countered with "well I shouldn't have to do that because of x reason." It's always been nonsensical and never backed up with any reasoning. PS3 is back in its box.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 298	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:27:00 - [144] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Nah, I'd rather just string you along and let you think I'm lying. If you had a detailed idea how to balance the two, you'd have posted it at some point. But for the funzies, because I want to watch spkr4thedead foam at the mouth: Some reading materiel. I imagine it'll make most drivers mad. See the funny thing is, I couldn't care if you are lying. It is more for the spectators who might consider your opinion as valid to see that you won't post the name because you don't have the stats to back it up. That reluctance paints a much better picture of your intentions than anything else. You discredit yourself and your arguments, and that is to my advantage. You want to find my detailed post on how to fix tanks, I made it on Attorney not too long ago. Seek and you shall find. I won't repost it here to satisfy you, especially since you are so reluctant to have your own record examined. Since you refuse to debate in good faith, and instead want to try to hand wave away any critical arguments, then why should I do your work for you? As long as you refuse to post your alleged tanker alt, all you are doing is making yourself look foolish. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:28:00 - [145] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: General Mosquito wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Whole bunch of fluff to avoid the requested proof. If tanks are as OP as you say, then provide your tanker alts name, surely he has a 20:1 K:D ratio. Now a good K:d isn't everything, but as you said, you don't die unless you get a tank interfering with your business. Of course you won't though, because your stats won't match your claims. Or you could demonstrate to me personally, but you won't, because you can't take getting laughed at when you muppet the whip. I appreciate that you took the trouble to type that out, but it doesn't mitigate you dodging a simple question. That says so much more than that wall of text. best you bring to the table is "this is what happens with me, therefore your points are irrelevant." Why should I put more effort into refuting you than you put into proving a point? So far you haven't put out a single point of testable evidence to back your claim, nor have you answered any point I have ever made. As far as evasiveness, your glass house is cracking from all the rocks you're throwing. The "testable evidence" you want to see could've been done on CCP's test server. Also, not everybody has, nor cares to purchase a video capture device. So, you shouldn't ask just one person to "provide video evidence." How about you post some video of you using your preferred MLT forge gun to "easily" destroy vehicles? PS3 is back in its box.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 298	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:28:00 - [146] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: "Broken record" So continuing to cite my experience vs AV is being a broken record? Actually telling infantry how to destroy vehicles is being a broken record - and I was nowhere near the only one. Quite a few pilots have told infantry how to destroy vehicles, but literally every single time they countered with "well I shouldn't have to do that because of x reason." It's always been nonsensical and never backed up with any reasoning. Oh my god, so much this. When tankers have to break down to AV how simple it is to kill tanks, it makes me wonder what game they have been playing all this time. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:29:00 - [147] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Sometimes I wonder if this game would not be in 10x better condition if they had left out vehicles instead of racial heavy weapons. Seriously look at the incredible amount of time and energy that has been wasted in a couple of years for the same moronic back and forth to still be going on. It's because infantry incessantly cried about vehicles, and how they couldn't nuke them with one volley from MLT swarms, thus the reason vehicles have been dragged through the mud for so long, and pilots being treated like second class citizens. And you certainly didn't help. because even when tanks were OP as all get out, you were acting like they were fine. There is a place for rational discussion about balance matters, and you are not a person who should be included, because you refuse under any circumstances to be objective. You are just as bad, if not worse than the people who cry and whine about tanks being OP. Vehicles were never OP. I never compromised because infantry's statement is "we're the majority of the community, so you have no say in it." PS3 is back in its box.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 302	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:32:00 - [148] - Quote Megaman Trigger wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: [i]"It's not fair if a single infantryman can destroy my (insert vehicle here) solo. It should require teamwork." Why should a suit with a few million SP be able to easily destroy a vehicle with 60 million SP and over 1 million ISK sunk into it? That's the pilot community's gripe, which you have always countered with no logical reason. Actually Spkr, Breakin has said, multiple times in other threads, that vehicles need either a drop in ISK cost or SP investment, depending on if they're supposed to be a dedicated role just like Assault, Logi, Sentinel are roles (drop the ISK costs) or a freely available temporary power-up (drop the SP cost) And just to reiterate, Spkr is dead wrong that a single dropsuit shouldn't be able to take out a tank. The real question is how long should it take, and at what ranges can that kill be performed. I personally think that any suit that isn't a minmando shouldn't be able to kill a tank with JUST swarms. I'm not sure where I stand on the forge gun, because if it is strong enough to destroy a tank by itself we just return to FGs up high, which is kind of crap for gameplay. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:32:00 - [149] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: General Mosquito wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Don't tell him that. He was on a roll and I was laughing my ass off as the point flew right over his head. So you were laughing your ass off because you didn't quote your reference? Damn, you must be having a blast when you are out not killing tanks. He has to play the game to destroy tanks, not point out how spreadsheets should be the only factor in determining numbers for vehicles and AV. Goddamn, I just realized how boring reading your posts is. Like a skipped record. Same post, over and over and over and over... Trying to figure out how the f*ck I never realized it before. In any case, welcome back, I look forward to your empty posting at all points in the future. Refusing to refute claims with evidence and critical thinking, preferring to go strictly by numbers is not my fault. From what I've seen of you post, you have no idea how to drive. That's not my fault, it's entirely on your shoulders. PS3 is back in its box.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 302	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:33:00 - [150] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Vehicles were never OP. I never compromised because infantry's statement is "we're the majority of the community, so you have no say in it." That is complete crap. There was a phase where tanks were too strong. That infantry only had two AV nades that had just been nerfed really made it worse than it should have been. That you refuse to admit that makes you really easy to ignore as a voice for balance. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu

Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:35:00 - [151] - Quote Megaman Trigger wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: Buff raw HP, tone down Hardeners, move Heavy Reps to Active rather than Passive. Would that balance (or at least start to balance) HAVs so that they're 1. No longer completely vulnerable and squishy without Hardeners and 2. No longer nigh on invincible /godmode with Hardeners.? All CCP ever did was nerf hardeners due to the incessant whining from infantry. The first time they were ever buffed was when Rattati did the big vehicle sweep. So Hardeners were UP for a long while before Ratatti gave them a look over. Toning them down (lower resistance, higher fitting costs or hard cap, one of the three), adding a passive resistance, higher raw HP, Active Heavy Reps. Would that be balanced? Not fragile without Hardeners, not invincible with. He finally buffed hardeners after them being next to useless at 25% for a long time. Not a month later, probably more like a week and a half, infantry were crying that their fitting cost should be increased, and/or their cooldown increased, and/or their up-time decreased, and/or their damage attenuation decreased. That's not a balancing act, that's taking a chainsaw to months of work. That's literally telling Rattati that all the hard work he did needed to be erased and done over again. PS3 is back in its box.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:36:00 - [152] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: General Mosquito wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: In any case, welcome back, I look forward to your empty posting at all points in the future. And yours have substance? You won't even post your tanker alt to back up your claims of being nigh unkillable and dominating matches. Pot, meet kettle. Been playing since beta? On what character? Sorry, but if you're going to claim you're a badass post on your main, or a character I've at least seen before. Or posted on. Or I give a crap about how you fought the imps, everyone fought the imps, and some people whined about it harder than others. Tell ya what, pubbie. You put a little more effort into proving your points, and I'll give you the time of day, ok? Until then, you're a newcomer with a loud mouth who has put zero work into helping the discussion about HAV balance, instead trying to refute any point that says, Madrugars are unbalanced. You want me to take you seriously enough to care? What, if anything do you think it will take for AV/V balance? Skip swarms. The goddamn things can't be balanced without making them OP or useless trash. They aren't worth discussing unless that discussion involves a dev uttering the words "So we're going to completely rebuild swarm launchers from the ground up..." Figured you'd reply like that. Predictable lol PS3 is back in its box.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:37:00 - [153] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: I personally think that any suit that isn't a minmando shouldn't be able to kill a tank with JUST swarms. I'm not sure where I stand on the forge gun, because if it is strong enough to destroy a tank by itself we just return to FGs up high, which is kind of crap for gameplay. Mostly I'm not giving my tank alt name because of spkr4thedead being in the thread. I'd like to have one character that I use on occasion and post with that doesn't have to deal with stalkerish, ex-girlfriend-like harassing sh*tposts whenever I talk. On swarms: I cannot stress how much I hate them. High point forge sniping: There needs to be a counter that isn't dependent upon using a dropship to get up there with him. Every play needs counterplay. And that counterplay needs to not just be the sniper with the thale. Honestly I'd prefer if HAVs could elevate the guns more. Serious discussions about balance will always be entertained. Just about every balance scenario should come with a price reduction allowing HAV and ADS/Dropship play to be as sustainable as my Forge Gun habit. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:40:00 - [154] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: General Mosquito wrote: Honestly, I am just glad we have firmly established Breakin as someone who refuses to answer straight up questions. Anyone want to take a bet that his "tanker" alt has a K:D under two? If you'd actually been on the forums longer than the last what, two, three months? You'd know the answer. Seems he's not a spreadsheet and forum warrior like you are. PS3 is back in its box.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:42:00 - [155] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Vehicles were never OP. I never compromised because infantry's statement is "we're the majority of the community, so you have no say in it." That is complete crap. There was a phase where tanks were too strong. That infantry only had two AV nades that had just been nerfed really made it worse than it should have been. That you refuse to admit that makes you really easy to ignore as a voice for balance. Oh goddammit quit draining my assumption that you don't care about balance. You're taking all of the fun out of baiting you, dammit... In any case, The proposal laid out there is intended to balance AV/V on a 1:1 basis. With the intent that you can use STD guns to kill STD tanks, ADV guns to kill ADV tanks, and so on. the base premise is one I'm not necessarily HAPPY with, but unless reps get completely swapped to active, and we get some of the old modules back, for variety? It's pretty much it. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:43:00 - [156] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: General Mosquito wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Been playing since beta? On what character? Sorry, but if you're going to claim you're a badass post on your main, or a character I've at least seen before. Or posted on. Or I give a crap about how you fought the imps, everyone fought the imps, and some people whined about it harder than others. Tell ya what, pubbie. You put a little more effort into proving your points, and I'll give you the time of day, ok? Until then, you're a newcomer with a loud mouth who has put zero work into helping the discussion about HAV balance, instead trying to refute any point that says, Madrugars are unbalanced. You want me to take you seriously enough to care? What, if anything do you think it will take for AV/V balance? Skip swarms. The goddamn things can't be balanced without making them OP or useless trash. They aren't worth discussing unless that discussion involves a dev uttering the words "So we're going to completely rebuild swarm launchers from the ground up..." The Attorney General - Tanker GeneralButtNaked - Prof 5 FG heavy, biomassed awhile back to be remade in eve. Turn on signatures bro. I don't hide who I am. I'm proud of my tanking endeavours. Now tell us who your tanker is, and I'll give you a detailed post about what to do with tanks and AV, beyond the myriad suggestions I have made elsewhere, and even in this very thread. Nah, I'd rather just string you along and let you think I'm lying. If you had a detailed idea how to balance the two, you'd have posted it at some point. But for the funzies, because I want to watch spkr4thedead foam at the mouth: Some reading materiel. I imagine it'll make most drivers mad. Look at that, another spreadsheet. Consider me not surprised. Pathetically predictable, really. PS3 is back in its box.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 308	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:44:00 - [157] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Mostly I'm not giving my tank alt name because of spkr4thedead being in the thread. I'd like to have one character that I use on occasion and post with that doesn't have to deal with stalkerish, ex-girlfriend-like harassing sh*tposts whenever I talk. On swarms: I cannot stress how much I hate them. High point forge sniping: There needs to be a counter that isn't dependent upon using a dropship to get up there with him. Every play needs counterplay. And that counterplay needs to not just be the sniper with the thale. Honestly I'd prefer if HAVs could elevate the guns more. So then send it to The Attorney General in a mail. You have my word I won't post the name. I will discuss the stats, as they are relevant to the discussion. Swarms are trash because they can't be balanced properly, especially now that the minmando is a thing. The minmando is extremely potent as a swarm carrier, but in an unbonused suit swarms are not even an annoyance unless they are massed. I don't have a problem with that because I don't think that people should be delivering knockout blows with a auto aiming, fire from cover weapon. AV nades being strong is important, because it keeps tankers honest. Knowing that driving into a pair of infantry could end with your explosion needs to remain a viable threat. Most infantry still won't carry them, but that is on them. Totally agree on the rooftop forge. It becomes a serious gameplay challenge to make the FG effective without severely limiting the counter. I would prefer if they just put railings on the worst roofs, so that a FG can't get into a position where they have a lethal field of fire and can only be sniped at. Very treacherous area honestly for the devs, too much one way or the other and they go from dominating to unused. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:46:00 - [158] - Quote Megaman Trigger wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: [i]"It's not fair if a single infantryman can destroy my (insert vehicle here) solo. It should require teamwork." Why should a suit with a few million SP be able to easily destroy a vehicle with 60 million SP and over 1 million ISK sunk into it? That's the pilot community's gripe, which you have always countered with no logical reason. Actually Spkr, Breakin has said, multiple times in other threads, that vehicles need either a drop in ISK cost or SP investment, depending on if they're supposed to be a dedicated role just like Assault, Logi, Sentinel are roles (drop the ISK costs) or a freely available temporary power-up (drop the SP cost) That's not an acknowledgment that infantry on here refuses to use teamwork, or that experienced pilots know when to and when not to engage, and know the maps well to know where cover is and isn't, and that they're able to use the wheel of doom well enough to turn on the right module at the right time. Saying the costs in ISK and SP should be reduced doesn't acknowledge the problem I stated above in my first sentence. PS3 is back in its box.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:47:00 - [159] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Look at that, another spreadsheet. Consider me not surprised. Pathetically predictable, really. Actually that's what we call a "Document file" with words and logic. ATTACHED to that document are not one, but TEN linked spreadsheets that actually cover pretty much everything I have ever discussed and every point I have ever made, based roughly around the survivability of the Sagaris versus a single IAFG gunner from Chromosome. I know that math, logic and words are intimidating, but I'm sure you can eventually get over it. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:48:00 - [160] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: [i]"It's not fair if a single infantryman can destroy my (insert vehicle here) solo. It should require teamwork." Why should a suit with a few million SP be able to easily destroy a vehicle with 60 million SP and over 1 million ISK sunk into it? That's the pilot community's gripe, which you have always countered with no logical reason. Actually Spkr, Breakin has said, multiple times in other threads, that vehicles need either a drop in ISK cost or SP investment, depending on if they're supposed to be a dedicated role just like Assault, Logi, Sentinel are roles (drop the ISK costs) or a freely available temporary power-up (drop the SP cost) And just to reiterate, Spkr is dead wrong that a single dropsuit shouldn't be able to take out a tank. The real question is how long should it take, and at what ranges can that kill be performed. I personally think that any suit that isn't a minmando shouldn't be able to kill a tank with JUST swarms. I'm not sure where I stand on the forge gun, because if it is strong enough to destroy a tank by itself we just return to FGs up high, which is kind of crap for gameplay. The problem goes further in that they won't bother to use proxies, AV grenades and swarms together to destroy a vehicle. It's always "one thing should take care of it" that I take issue with as well. PS3 is back in its box.

Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:49:00 - [161] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Vehicles were never OP. I never compromised because infantry's statement is "we're the majority of the community, so you have no say in it." That is complete crap. There was a phase where tanks were too strong. That infantry only had two AV nades that had just been nerfed really made it worse than it should have been. That you refuse to admit that makes you really easy to ignore as a voice for balance. Vehicles countered each other during Chromosome, and during Uprising 1.6. I don't see how that was a problem for infantry when you had pilots whacking the hell out of each other, with millions of ISK being lost between vehicles alone. PS3 is back in its box.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:50:00 - [162] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: So then send it to The Attorney General in a mail. Hit me up in skype. Ask Kane for contact data, and we can hash things. If you're interested in serious discussions and going over actual balance issues I'm more than happy to suspend the silly Forum E-Peen waving and just get to brass tacks. Having constructive criticism of my concept work is deeply of value to me, especially from someone who is not going to simply be prone to saying "Breakin Knows what he's talking about... What he says." Keep in mind: Constructive. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:52:00 - [163] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: General Mosquito wrote: I personally think that any suit that isn't a minmando shouldn't be able to kill a tank with JUST swarms. I'm not sure where I stand on the forge gun, because if it is strong enough to destroy a tank by itself we just return to FGs up high, which is kind of crap for gameplay. Mostly I'm not giving my tank alt name because of spkr4thedead being in the thread. I'd like to have one character that I use on occasion and post with that doesn't have to deal with stalkerish, ex-girlfriend-like harassing sh*tposts whenever I talk. On swarms: I cannot stress how much I hate them. High point forge sniping: There needs to be a counter that isn't dependent upon using a dropship to get up there with him. Every play needs counterplay. And that counterplay needs to not just be the sniper with the thale. Honestly I'd prefer if HAVs could elevate the guns more. Serious discussions about balance will always be entertained. Just about every balance scenario should come with a price reduction allowing HAV and ADS/Dropship play to be as sustainable as my Forge Gun habit. Stalker-ish? Wow, I'm definitely not the problem here. Again, you refuse to show your tanker alt, probably because you play on it even less than your main that you post here with. I haven't played in 6 months, because the game is terrible and I don't care about it anymore. I prefer Warframe now; rather than waiting however many weeks to get enough SP to increase something by one level, I could grind out various missions to get what I want, then modify it to get the most out of that weapon. Yeah, there aren't any vehicles in it, but there's Planetside 2 for that. PS3 is back in its box.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:54:00 - [164] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: I prefer Warframe now; rather than waiting however many weeks to get enough SP to increase something by one level, I could grind out various missions to get what I want, then modify it to get the most out of that weapon. Yeah, there aren't any vehicles in it, but there's Planetside 2 for that. I don't care spkr. Have fun with warframe and planetside 2. I wish you the best of luck and hope you drive over many squishy nerds. Now run along and be useless somewhere else. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:55:00 - [165] - Quote Alternately, Mosquito, if you log into google, there's a chat function built into google docs for people who actually log in. Probably the fastest way. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:55:00 - [166] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Look at that, another spreadsheet. Consider me not surprised. Pathetically predictable, really. Actually that's what we call a "Document file" with words and logic. ATTACHED to that document are not one, but TEN linked spreadsheets that actually cover pretty much everything I have ever discussed and every point I have ever made, based roughly around the survivability of the Sagaris versus a single IAFG gunner from Chromosome. I know that math, logic and words are intimidating, but I'm sure you can eventually get over it. Numbers on paper =/= gameplay conditions. I don't know how many times I've said the above. A military commander once said "the best laid plans never survive first contact with the enemy." That translates into you believing with all your heart that numbers should be the only deciding factor in how AV and vehicles behave. PS3 is back in its box.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:56:00 - [167] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: I prefer Warframe now; rather than waiting however many weeks to get enough SP to increase something by one level, I could grind out various missions to get what I want, then modify it to get the most out of that weapon. Yeah, there aren't any vehicles in it, but there's Planetside 2 for that. I don't care spkr. Have fun with warframe and planetside 2. I wish you the best of luck and hope you drive over many squishy nerds. Now run along and be useless somewhere else. Lol dismissive insults. How very "logical" of you. PS3 is back in its box.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:58:00 - [168] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: I prefer Warframe now; rather than waiting however many weeks to get enough SP to increase something by one level, I could grind out various missions to get what I want, then modify it to get the most out of that weapon. Yeah, there aren't any vehicles in it, but there's Planetside 2 for that. I don't care spkr. Have fun with warframe and planetside 2. I wish you the best of luck and hope you drive over many squishy nerds. Now run along and be useless somewhere else. Lol dismissive insults. How very "logical" of you. Say something worth the effort someday. To date, you haven't. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 308	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:59:00 - [169] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Look at that, another spreadsheet. Consider me not surprised. Pathetically predictable, really. Actually that's what we call a "Document file" with words and logic. ATTACHED to that document are not one, but TEN linked spreadsheets that actually cover pretty much everything I have ever discussed and every point I have ever made, based roughly around the survivability of the Sagaris versus a single IAFG gunner from Chromosome. I know that math, logic and words are intimidating, but I'm sure you can eventually get over it. I'm really baked right now, but where are the spreadsheets? I have no problem with going back to active reps, but I would prefer to not have arbitrary limits on fitting. If someone wants to resist tank, it should be an option, although how effective it is can always be adjusted. However, I do dispute your statement in the TL:DR portion that a dual rep, dual hardener fit is impossible to crack with any infantry AV and difficult with heavy turrets. Advanced proxies have enough alpha to cut through a double hardened tank. Sure they are not a primary weapon, but they are extremely effective at nuking dual rep fits. With turrets, double basic damage modded XTs will cut right through a dual rep fit, as will a double damage modded Particle Cannon. Hook me up with those spreadsheets though, or tell me how to get at them. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 308	Posted - 2015.08.15 21:01:00 - [170] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Numbers on paper =/= gameplay conditions. I don't know how many times I've said the above. A military commander once said "the best laid plans never survive first contact with the enemy." That translates into you believing with all your heart that numbers should be the only deciding factor in how AV and vehicles behave. If the only metric for balance was how things went in game, this game would be even more of a mess than it is. Do you use a special ed tanker to balance by, or a pro? Muppet AV or gangster Alldin Kan with a Gastuns level? Too many variables to take into account, and at some point you have to be able to point to a flat set of data that can be used for comparison if nothing else. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu

General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 308	Posted - 2015.08.15 21:03:00 - [171] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Vehicles countered each other during Chromosome, and during Uprising 1.6. I don't see how that was a problem for infantry when you had pilots whacking the hell out of each other, with millions of ISK being lost between vehicles alone. Because this is a lobby shooter with a broken matchmaker that can't assure each side of a tanker in each match. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Megaman Trigger Ready to Play 443	Posted - 2015.08.15 21:05:00 - [172] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Look at that, another spreadsheet. Consider me not surprised. Pathetically predictable, really. Actually that's what we call a "Document file" with words and logic. ATTACHED to that document are not one, but TEN linked spreadsheets that actually cover pretty much everything I have ever discussed and every point I have ever made, based roughly around the survivability of the Sagaris versus a single IAFG gunner from Chromosome. I know that math, logic and words are intimidating, but I'm sure you can eventually get over it. I'm really baked right now, but where are the spreadsheets? I have no problem with going back to active reps, but I would prefer to not have arbitrary limits on fitting. If someone wants to resist tank, it should be an option, although how effective it is can always be adjusted. However, I do dispute your statement in the TL:DR portion that a dual rep, dual hardener fit is impossible to crack with any infantry AV and difficult with heavy turrets. Advanced proxies have enough alpha to cut through a double hardened tank. Sure they are not a primary weapon, but they are extremely effective at nuking dual rep fits. With turrets, double basic damage modded XTs will cut right through a dual rep fit, as will a double damage modded Particle Cannon. Hook me up with those spreadsheets though, or tell me how to get at them. Each weapon header under "reasoning" is a link to the spreadsheet for that weapon. Purifier. First Class.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 21:28:00 - [173] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: I prefer Warframe now; rather than waiting however many weeks to get enough SP to increase something by one level, I could grind out various missions to get what I want, then modify it to get the most out of that weapon. Yeah, there aren't any vehicles in it, but there's Planetside 2 for that. I don't care spkr. Have fun with warframe and planetside 2. I wish you the best of luck and hope you drive over many squishy nerds. Now run along and be useless somewhere else. Lol dismissive insults. How very "logical" of you. Say something worth the effort someday. To date, you haven't. Another dismissive insult. PS3 is back in its box.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 21:41:00 - [174] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Numbers on paper =/= gameplay conditions. I don't know how many times I've said the above. A military commander once said "the best laid plans never survive first contact with the enemy." That translates into you believing with all your heart that numbers should be the only deciding factor in how AV and vehicles behave. If the only metric for balance was how things went in game, this game would be even more of a mess than it is. Do you use a special ed tanker to balance by, or a pro? Muppet AV or gangster Alldin Kan with a Gastuns level? Too many variables to take into account, and at some point you have to be able to point to a flat set of data that can be used for comparison if nothing else. My gripe with his is that he believes the only metric in deciding how AV and vehicles operate is by numbers alone. I've long advocated that CCP test everything on their test server, including somehow opening it up for players to test things out, but they never let us access that server, thus we received changes that felt like they were untested. I never said that gameplay conditions should the only factor in balancing; I've said all along that numbers don't translate into gameplay. It's like for example someone releases an app for Android, and doesn't test any of it. That person or small company would be skinned alive at releasing an untested app, especially so if it costs money. PS3 is back in its box.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 21:43:00 - [175] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Vehicles countered each other during Chromosome, and during Uprising 1.6. I don't see how that was a problem for infantry when you had pilots whacking the hell out of each other, with millions of ISK being lost between vehicles alone. Because this is a lobby shooter with a broken matchmaker that can't assure each side of a tanker in each match. Exactly so, which seems to also be a factor infantry believes should be taken into account when it comes to balancing. I'm not an idiot, I just don't believe in compromising, a give and take when all that was ever done to vehicle and the pilots that like them was take the entire time. It tends to make you raw and a little angry with how things are done, so why should pilots feel obligated to compromise with people that don't believe they should give anything up, and that treat you like a second class citizen? PS3 is back in its box.
byte modal 239	Posted - 2015.08.15 22:25:00 - [176] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: [quote=General Mosquito][quote=Spkr4theDead] I'm not an idiot, I just don't believe in compromising, a give and take when all that was ever done to vehicle and the pilots that like them was take the entire time. It tends to make you raw and a little angry with how things are done, so why should pilots feel obligated to compromise with people that don't believe they should give anything up, and that treat you like a second class citizen? Emphasis mine. First, i know jack about tanks and av balance. Im just reading for the entertainment factor alone as posters post full on fingers in the ear to any view other than their own, all while calling out the other guy for doing eactly than. 9 pages in.... Awesome stuff of endurance. Second, make an effort to read the entire thread before babbling already resolved posts from page 1-2. Third, and finally, it's jacked up logic like what's quoted that make people laugh and troll your self-absorbed rhetoric on tanks. Please though, continue your crusade of complaining infantry won't compromise while doing exactly what you're bemoaning others of. My heads hurts, but it's all just so awesomely silly to stop reading. I say, repeal all vehicular helmet and seatbelt laws. Let darwinism do it's job again by thinning the heard. Just IMHO. kitten bacon taco (nom)
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 12	Posted - 2015.08.15 22:28:00 - [177] - Quote ^ Lol. What that guy said. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 308	Posted - 2015.08.15 22:36:00 - [178] - Quote byte modal wrote: all while calling out the other guy for doing eactly that. 9 pages in.... Awesome stuff of endurance. What hilarious is that I would normally agree with you. Except Breakin and I just had a very productive discussion about tank balance. He may still be an *******, but so am I and we can work together. Progress, it can happen. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
byte modal 240	Posted - 2015.08.15 22:40:00 - [179] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: byte modal wrote: all while calling out the other guy for doing eactly that. 9 pages in.... Awesome stuff of endurance. What hilarious is that I would normally agree with you. Except Breakin and I just had a very productive discussion about tank balance. He may still be an *******, but so am I and we can work together. Progress, it can happen. Ya, i meant to compliment you both on finding middle ground in a way, but forgot. Typing thumbs in on a mobile kept me from coming back. You called me out though so here it is. Glad to see it evolving. kitten bacon taco (nom)
Megaman Trigger Ready to Play 444	Posted - 2015.08.15 22:56:00 - [180] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: byte modal wrote: all while calling out the other guy for doing eactly that. 9 pages in.... Awesome stuff of endurance. What hilarious is that I would normally agree with you. Except Breakin and I just had a very productive discussion about tank balance. He may still be an *******, but so am I and we can work together. Progress, it can happen. Glad to hear you both getting there in the end. Purifier. First Class.

Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 23:02:00 - [181] - Quote byte modal wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: [quote=General Mosquito][quote=Spkr4theDead] I'm not an idiot, I just don't believe in compromising, a give and take when all that was ever done to vehicle and the pilots that like them was take the entire time. It tends to make you raw and a little angry with how things are done, so why should pilots feel obligated to compromise with people that don't believe they should give anything up, and that treat you like a second class citizen? Emphasis mine. First, i know jack about tanks and av balance. Im just reading for the entertainment factor alone as posters post full on fingers in the ear to any view other than their own, all while calling out the other guy for doing eactly that. 9 pages in.... Awesome stuff of endurance. Second, make an effort to read the entire thread before babbling already resolved posts from page 1-2. Third, and finally, it's jacked up logic like what's quoted that make people laugh and troll your self-absorbed rhetoric on tanks. Please though, continue your crusade of complaining infantry won't compromise while doing exactly what you're bemoaning others of. My heads hurts, but it's all just so awesomely silly to stop reading. I say, repeal all vehicular helmet and seatbelt laws. Let darwinism do it's job again by thinning the heard. Just IMHO. Thing is, infantry demands we compromise while they won't give anything up regarding AV. I said before that infantry were screaming bloody murder when CCP was nerfing swarm lock on range, proclaiming the end to the game. That didn't happen, and CCP still kept a consistent player base. PS3 is back in its box.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.15 23:04:00 - [182] - Quote Mutual hatred of stupidity brought us together. Seriously though. Peer review. If you can parse numbers and you give a crap about AV/V balance Go Here and then come back and comment. WARNING! Link may or may not lead to actual proposal. Link may or may not actually lead to the loudest midget **** website in existence. Link may or may not be safe for work. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 23:29:00 - [183] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Mutual hatred of stupidity brought us together. Seriously though. Peer review. If you can parse numbers and you give a crap about AV/V balance Go Here and then come back and comment. WARNING! Link may or may not lead to actual proposal. Link may or may not actually lead to the loudest midget **** website in existence. Link may or may not be safe for work. Numbers =/= battlefield PS3 is back in its box.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 12	Posted - 2015.08.15 23:41:00 - [184] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Numbers =/= battlefield When exactly was the last time you saw a Dust battlefield? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.16 00:08:00 - [185] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Numbers =/= battlefield When exactly was the last time you saw a Dust battlefield? About six months ago. I'm done with it. PS3 is back in its box.
byte modal 241	Posted - 2015.08.16 00:21:00 - [186] - Quote Troll, or oblivious? Honest question =/ kitten bacon taco (nom)
DUST Fiend 17	Posted - 2015.08.16 00:23:00 - [187] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Numbers =/= battlefield When exactly was the last time you saw a Dust battlefield? About six months ago. I'm done with it. Ultimately things haven't changed much, aside from swarms hitting harder and most AV coming from airborne commandos Not that I've played much either, but I have in the past few days and months here and there. It doesn't take more than a match or two to get a feel for everything again though. I am a beautiful space manatee, flying through the sky with the greatest of ease Swarms *everywhere. WoD 514*
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.16 00:47:00 - [188] - Quote byte modal wrote: Troll, or oblivious? Honest question =/ Troll? Oblivious? I was here before Replication. I know what I'm talking about. PS3 is back in its box.
byte modal 241	Posted - 2015.08.16 18:57:00 - [189] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: byte modal wrote: Troll, or oblivious? Honest question =/ Troll? Oblivious? I was here before Replication. I know what I'm talking about. I know who you are and how long you've been here. I thought your thoughts on balance were just as special then as they are today. I asked if you were trolling or oblivious because of how you are handling this thread. You jump into a conversation, then 9-pages long, already abandoned by all but 2 or 3 hold outs that collectively have neared mutual understanding of each other's view. But instead of reading to see if anything came of it, you enter from the beginning like a pitcher showing up to the game in the 9th inning shouting, "lets DO this!" Even in this discussion, you admit you're unwilling to compromise and appear to ignore any view that's not aligned with your own. Right or wrong, discussion provides perspective; perspective leads to understanding; and understanding can lead to growth. Even those that may agree with you on points call you out on your self-serving ideology. Add to that being out of game for 6 months, i am genuinely curious of not just why you're posting, but doing so in a vacuum of awareness to the lengthy conversation already in progress, and arguing against two people that are already arguing against each other where one might have helped your cause if not for your rhetoric. It's odd to me, hence the question of motive. Growth or understanding are neither a goal. So what is motive at this point? None of this is meant as a flame btw. I'm just honestly curious how you tick. On a positive note, i always thought your name was pretty cool. kitten bacon taco (nom)


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