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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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Posted - 2015.08.14 13:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Nirwanda Vaughns wrote:AV and Vehicles will never truly be balanced til we have some decent heavy shield AV so til then every arguement is moot because there simply isn't enough balance.
Considering shield tanks don't really exist right now exceptt for idiots who think a gank fit gunloggi works, Shield AV is a very low priority.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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282
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Posted - 2015.08.14 13:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:Maximus Mobius wrote:Beld Errmon wrote:heh did you just lose a bunch of prototanks before posting this?
I got proto tanks to burn but no I didn't. I did this since if a tanker doesn't actively have A hardener on, he will get wrecked by 3 packed Lai Dai AV nades. I'm annoyed at the "Tanks are too op" mindset the AV group has. LOL funny because all i see are tankers complain that AV is OP , LOL 3 Lai Dais ive been in tanks that laugh at that hell ive been against tanks that let me get 12 swarm vollies and it acted like CCP adding full racial variants " meh We will get to it soon(TM)"
You didn't read his post.
He said a tank without its hardeners on will get wrecked by lai dais. Which, if it doesn't have a plate on is true.
Maybe you should spend less time hurling swarms at dual rep maddies and actually try and get close for once.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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283
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Posted - 2015.08.14 18:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alcina Nektaria wrote:
The problem (in my opinion) because no one has any GOOD ideas for vehicles is that AV nades were buffed to combat the stupid double hardners that people were running to be assholes in the first place. There's no good way to run a vehicle anymore.
Tankers fitting to survive are *******. Glad to know you are not biased.
Alcina Nektaria wrote:
A good solution would be for AV to be nerfed to a point but then release prefitted vehicles to choose from. Maybe ask the community for actual GOOD fitting ideas instead of the stupid **** they have to run to combat the mess they made in the first place.
What?
Alcina Nektaria wrote:
Even AV guns have a problem. In a game where there are 16 or less people on each team, it shouldn't take more than 2 people to successfully take out a vehicle with AV.
It doesn't. No matter the fit(aside from a joke dual plated dual hardened maddy with a basic turret) EVERY tank you can put on field dies to 6 lai dais. No other av needed.
If you can't take out a tank with a buddy in a LAV, then you are the problem, not the AV gear.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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283
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Posted - 2015.08.14 18:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alcina Nektaria wrote:
If you read anything I said, you'd see that I was saying it all needs to fixed. You are formatting my words conditionally to specific scenarios. I'm saying in general, as a whole. Vehicles suck, av sucks because there is no balance. Lets see you come up with a suggested solution instead of criticizing an idea.
Just like the muppet in the other thread, a complete rework isn't going to happen, and people suggesting it needs to be told that point blank.
It might be possible to get enough dev effort to tweak some numbers here and there, but a total redo isn't going to happen.
Your idea isn't one, it is just being even more critical than I am, by saying it all sucks, start over like a little kid.
I don't think vehicles suck, and I don't think AV sucks. I enjoy driving my tanks around, and I have used enough AV to know how brutally effective it is.
I didn't "format" your words to fit a specific scenario. You called all tankers assholes just for trying to not die. That shows exactly how you think about the situation. The third quoted portion was me disputing your baseless claim that you need more than 2 people to take out a hardened tank.
I don't need to come up with a solution to a crybabies problem.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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283
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Posted - 2015.08.14 19:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
CUSE TOWN333 wrote:
yes because standing next to a tank throwing 3 AV nades then putting down a nanohive restocking the nades and throwing 3 more all while the tank sits there is a great tactic that never result in the infantry dieing.
Funny thing about AV nades ( and swarms to a lesser degree) is that you don't need to even be in gun view of the tank to mess it up.
Tons of safety around almost every flag in the game to properly administer AV glory, provided the tank sits around.
Of course the far more successful ram an LAV into him, hop out and administer AV justice has no real counter and puts the operators of the lav at virtually no risk provided they don't lag out and ride the fireball.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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283
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Posted - 2015.08.14 19:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:
so just becasue i was in a tank that surivied 3 lais makes what i said null? sure why not.
just because i misread something some one typed (because booze and lack of reading glasses) does not mean that i sit at the 170m lockon range of swarms but you know my play style though right?
but then again im just a noob that has been playing this game since closed beta so what do i know.
First line is mush. Should try that one again.
Second part is pretty funny. You yourself said you flung 12 volleys of swarms at a tank.
As for the last line, time spent playing doesn't equal skill. You clearly don't know much about tanks, so it is rather likely that you don't know anything about how to fight them either. 12 volleys of swarms backs that up.
Please tell me how pro you are for being in closed beta, I was there too, and I learned how to AV before uprising 1.0 hit. Why haven't you learned in the extra year since then?
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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283
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Posted - 2015.08.14 20:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:
LOL thats funny
the first line is refering to your reponce of "You didn't read his post.
He said a tank without its hardeners on will get wrecked by lai dais. Which, if it doesn't have a plate on is true.
Maybe you should spend less time hurling swarms at dual rep maddies and actually try and get close for once."
but you know what lets ignore that.
and as for the rest its just so LOLZ worthy itf thats the best you can do ASSUMING you know how i play then sure why not keep telling your self that your better.
Wow, between the spelling and the lack of understanding of what words mean, no wonder you can't kill tanks.
How exactly does you surviving 3 av nades while sitting in a tank invalidate your claim that it can survive such?
Since you decided to go all caps on about your playstyle, let me help you out once again.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/assumption
I didn't assume anything. You said you fired twelve volleys of swarms at a tank. Since you didn't make any mention of using av nades, you weren't close.
You shouldn't all caps a word when you don't know what it means.
I can kill tanks with just proxies. I can also kill them with AV nades and a PLC. So yes, I am better than you.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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283
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Posted - 2015.08.14 20:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:General Mosquito wrote:
I didn't assume anything. You said you fired twelve volleys of swarms at a tank. Since you didn't make any mention of using av nades, you weren't close.
Or was running a Commando. Just sayin'
Minmando eats tanks, and it doesn't take 12 volleys.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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283
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Posted - 2015.08.14 20:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:
no i didnt say but he is under that assumption ( correct word usage) that i was.
I made no statement about the grade of the swarms, so there was no assumption in that regard.
Keep trying sparky.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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283
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Posted - 2015.08.14 21:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:
So you could have been using basic swarms on a Galmanndo, right?
Is that the metric we are going to use now?
If someone can destroy a tank with an unbonused milita weapon then tanks are balanced?
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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283
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Posted - 2015.08.14 21:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:
depends on map and who im playing with. when im alone its purple swarms on mando with a good vantage point usally engaging around 20-40m so the swarms dont do the circles around the tank or even closer if i can get a direct hit as teh swarms come out of the tube but 90% of the time its the 20-40m
"Good vantage point" = rooftop
20-40m = bullshit.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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283
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Posted - 2015.08.14 22:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:
Wrong on the roof top part ( although ill forge from the tops when im bored)
Bullshit too i know you are a expert at it but sorry i do get 20-40m some times even closer
once again please tell me more about how i play the game
Why don't you q up a factional against me and show me your av.
I need a good laugh.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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283
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Posted - 2015.08.14 23:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:
sure
Send The Attorney General a mail with your faction of choice.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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284
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Posted - 2015.08.15 14:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Because forcing someone to die and lose a full fit so they can engage you, or have to trundle about in an inferior vs infantry fit on the offchance you drop a vehicle is fair.
And no, commandos aren't the only AV fits worth talking about.
Every obsessive tanker fanboy b*tching about commandos.
Or laidais
Or both, as if you could combine the two somehow.
On "fairness" :
Are you just being dense, or do you think that fairness only applies for you? I doubt you would find any rational person who would say it is fair that a single minmando can deny ALL vehicles the flag area in a domination. Nonetheless, it is what we have. Hope your tanker has a sniper buddy, or infantry to go and clear that rooftop, or you might as well recall. It isn't "fair" but it is balanced. My tank versus a minmando is a losing proposition, but that minmando versus my squaddies in combat suits get rolled like a proper fatty.
You running into infantry in your AV suit isn't the tankers fault, and if the tanker has infantry with him, you better bring more people. Unless your definition of fair is "I win, they lose, and I don't put myself at risk when I do it"
No one forces you to spawn in an AV fit before a vehicle is on the field. That is your own foolishness, and is not an excuse for anything other than you needing some help.
Breakin Stuff wrote:
Because forcing someone to die and lose a full fit so they can engage you
This is the big issue.
Absolutely, 100% an AV player should have to put themselves at risk to take a run at the tank to kill it. If you want single suits to be able to solo tanks, then they MUST be engageable. Allowing a single suit to dominate from long range(not swarms range, but forge) completely screws that balance. Allowing a single suit on a roof to shut down huge swaths of the map, especially given the rendering problems in this game is horrible gameplay for everyone except the forger. I know you want to be that guy, striking out from heaven in a 1400 hp fat suit, but it isn't good gameplay.
Why do you think that you should have to put in no risk to kill someone who is putting ISK and their ass on the line?
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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285
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Posted - 2015.08.15 18:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
Don't tell him that. He was on a roll and I was laughing my ass off as the point flew right over his head.
So you were laughing your ass off because you didn't quote your reference?
Damn, you must be having a blast when you are out not killing tanks.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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285
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Posted - 2015.08.15 18:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
Whenever vehicles are clearly OP and allow even mediocre and crapass pilots to go 30/1 the claim is "nope that's totally fair" go out.
Vehicles aren't the obstacle of balance. The drivers are.
OK, well since I know you are craptastic at AV, are you willing to but your rear in a tank that I give you and go 30/1?
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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285
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Posted - 2015.08.15 18:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
Vehicles aren't the problem in my opinion. Vehicles can be balanced and made fair. However, the drivers can't be, and the instant a vehicle can be killed the cries go out about how useless it now is.
Vehicles can be killed now, and I'm arguing for AV buffs.
Please tell me again how all drivers are the problem.
Maybe the scrubs who drive lavs into a horde of tanks and infantry and then complain about unstoppable tanks might be part of the problem as well?
No, of course not.
But as everyone here will not, Breakin will refuse to prove how easy it is for a scrub to dominate in a tank, because it would completely invalidate his thesis when he loses 6 or 7 tanks a match.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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285
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Posted - 2015.08.15 18:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
You seem to be under the delusion that I don't actually drive tanks.
I don't drive them on this, my infantry-focused character.
But sure, you keep thinking that I don't know what I'm talking about,chuckles.
Name your tanking alt. We can check the stats.
But of course better proof is you getting in a squad with me and showing me. Otherwise you are just talking sh*t to deflect from your lack of an actual argument.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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285
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Posted - 2015.08.15 19:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
Whole bunch of fluff to avoid the requested proof.
If tanks are as OP as you say, then provide your tanker alts name, surely he has a 20:1 K:D ratio. Now a good K:d isn't everything, but as you said, you don't die unless you get a tank interfering with your business.
Of course you won't though, because your stats won't match your claims.
Or you could demonstrate to me personally, but you won't, because you can't take getting laughed at when you muppet the whip.
I appreciate that you took the trouble to type that out, but it doesn't mitigate you dodging a simple question. That says so much more than that wall of text.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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288
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Posted - 2015.08.15 19:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:deezy dabest wrote:Sometimes I wonder if this game would not be in 10x better condition if they had left out vehicles instead of racial heavy weapons.
Seriously look at the incredible amount of time and energy that has been wasted in a couple of years for the same moronic back and forth to still be going on. It's because infantry incessantly cried about vehicles, and how they couldn't nuke them with one volley from MLT swarms, thus the reason vehicles have been dragged through the mud for so long, and pilots being treated like second class citizens.
And you certainly didn't help. because even when tanks were OP as all get out, you were acting like they were fine.
There is a place for rational discussion about balance matters, and you are not a person who should be included, because you refuse under any circumstances to be objective.
You are just as bad, if not worse than the people who cry and whine about tanks being OP.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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293
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Posted - 2015.08.15 19:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
best you bring to the table is "this is what happens with me, therefore your points are irrelevant."
Why should I put more effort into refuting you than you put into proving a point?
So far you haven't put out a single point of testable evidence to back your claim, nor have you answered any point I have ever made.
As far as evasiveness, your glass house is cracking from all the rocks you're throwing.
Your the person making claims about tanks being unstoppable.
Your the person saying you never die in your tank to AV. All you have to do is provide a toon name for your tanker to back that up. That you won't suggests that you don't have the numbers to back up your claims. Not that numbers alone tell the whole story, but it would at least give us a statistical basis to work from.
You say that I am dismissive of other people points, when in this very thread I acknowledge that the FG needs a buff to either ROF or alpha, and that AV grenades might even use a slight buff, but I am the one being obtuse?
Bluntly, either put up or shut up. You say you tank, give us the name. You say you don't die, lets see you do it.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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294
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Posted - 2015.08.15 20:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
I've made all my arguments over the last two years, sorry you're a latecomer to the game, mosquito. Bluntly I don't feel a particular need to justify myself to you.
umm, I've been playing since closed beta, and tanking since just before release.
There are few tankers left in this game with as much experience as me in both tanking and AV.
My stats back up my excellence in tanking, my performance in PC attests to my skills.
When you were bumming around in pubs I was fighting against Imperfects and their tankers, and coming out ahead.
When you were telling tankers to HTFU during the LLAV AV nades spikefest, I was tanking in PC's breaking my wallet, and doing the damn thing.
When tankers had legitimate complaints about swarms and FG users on rooftops not rendering, you were talking that HTFU crap because it was in your interest to not have a balanced game.
When tanks were massively OP, I was posting about recommended nerfs.
So yes, you do need to justify your position, especially if you want to be taken seriously. But I don't think you do. You are just a crybaby scrub who wants to pretend he knows something.
You can very easily change that, just give us your tanker alts name, or log him in and squad with me and show me how you dominate and never die.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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294
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Posted - 2015.08.15 20:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:
He has to play the game to destroy tanks, not point out how spreadsheets should be the only factor in determining numbers for vehicles and AV.
I saw him in game a few weeks back.
He drove an untanked LAV into 2 tanks and a balster turret, while I was on his flank with a rail. I felt sorry for the blueberry that was riding with him, but he was going to die when he went around the corner anyway.
That is his elite level AV at work. I would love to see his tanking lol.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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294
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Posted - 2015.08.15 20:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
In any case, welcome back, I look forward to your empty posting at all points in the future.
And yours have substance?
You won't even post your tanker alt to back up your claims of being nigh unkillable and dominating matches.
Pot, meet kettle.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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295
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Posted - 2015.08.15 20:10:00 -
[25] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:I rammed the tank BECAUSE the blueberry was in the LAV with me. 
You didn't even make it to the corner before I one shot you.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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295
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Posted - 2015.08.15 20:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
Honestly, I am just glad we have firmly established Breakin as someone who refuses to answer straight up questions.
Anyone want to take a bet that his "tanker" alt has a K:D under two?
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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295
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Posted - 2015.08.15 20:15:00 -
[27] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
Been playing since beta?
On what character?
Sorry, but if you're going to claim you're a badass post on your main, or a character I've at least seen before.
Or posted on.
Or I give a crap about how you fought the imps, everyone fought the imps, and some people whined about it harder than others.
Tell ya what, pubbie. You put a little more effort into proving your points, and I'll give you the time of day, ok?
Until then, you're a newcomer with a loud mouth who has put zero work into helping the discussion about HAV balance, instead trying to refute any point that says, Madrugars are unbalanced.
You want me to take you seriously enough to care? What, if anything do you think it will take for AV/V balance?
Skip swarms. The goddamn things can't be balanced without making them OP or useless trash. They aren't worth discussing unless that discussion involves a dev uttering the words "So we're going to completely rebuild swarm launchers from the ground up..."
The Attorney General - Tanker
GeneralButtNaked - Prof 5 FG heavy, biomassed awhile back to be remade in eve.
Turn on signatures bro. I don't hide who I am. I'm proud of my tanking endeavours.
Now tell us who your tanker is, and I'll give you a detailed post about what to do with tanks and AV, beyond the myriad suggestions I have made elsewhere, and even in this very thread.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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295
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Posted - 2015.08.15 20:18:00 -
[28] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
because blowing up an LAV is... Hard?
You skilled monster you.
The point of that anecdote is that you are such an idiot you drove an untanked LAV around on a map where there had already been both an 80gj Particle Cannon and 2 Ion Cannons in the killfeed.
It was more in mockery of your foolishness than a statement of my skill.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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298
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Posted - 2015.08.15 20:22:00 -
[29] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:
Everything I've been seeing you type for ~2 years shows me that you have no idea as to what you're talking about when it comes to actually piloting a vehicle.
Of course not, if he even has a tanker alt, it has an empty wallet and a shoddy K:D and W/L ratio.
He won't ever back up his claims of his tanking dominance, because it is a myth he needs to tell to pretend like he is objective.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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298
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Posted - 2015.08.15 20:27:00 -
[30] - Quote
See the funny thing is, I couldn't care if you are lying.
It is more for the spectators who might consider your opinion as valid to see that you won't post the name because you don't have the stats to back it up. That reluctance paints a much better picture of your intentions than anything else.
You discredit yourself and your arguments, and that is to my advantage.
You want to find my detailed post on how to fix tanks, I made it on Attorney not too long ago. Seek and you shall find.
I won't repost it here to satisfy you, especially since you are so reluctant to have your own record examined. Since you refuse to debate in good faith, and instead want to try to hand wave away any critical arguments, then why should I do your work for you?
As long as you refuse to post your alleged tanker alt, all you are doing is making yourself look foolish.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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298
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Posted - 2015.08.15 20:28:00 -
[31] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:
"Broken record"
So continuing to cite my experience vs AV is being a broken record? Actually telling infantry how to destroy vehicles is being a broken record - and I was nowhere near the only one. Quite a few pilots have told infantry how to destroy vehicles, but literally every single time they countered with "well I shouldn't have to do that because of *x* reason." It's always been nonsensical and never backed up with any reasoning.
Oh my god, so much this.
When tankers have to break down to AV how simple it is to kill tanks, it makes me wonder what game they have been playing all this time.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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302
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Posted - 2015.08.15 20:32:00 -
[32] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:
[i]"It's not fair if a single infantryman can destroy my (insert vehicle here) solo. It should require teamwork."
Why should a suit with a few million SP be able to easily destroy a vehicle with 60 million SP and over 1 million ISK sunk into it? That's the pilot community's gripe, which you have always countered with no logical reason.
Actually Spkr, Breakin has said, multiple times in other threads, that vehicles need either a drop in ISK cost or SP investment, depending on if they're supposed to be a dedicated role just like Assault, Logi, Sentinel are roles (drop the ISK costs) or a freely available temporary power-up (drop the SP cost)
And just to reiterate, Spkr is dead wrong that a single dropsuit shouldn't be able to take out a tank.
The real question is how long should it take, and at what ranges can that kill be performed.
I personally think that any suit that isn't a minmando shouldn't be able to kill a tank with JUST swarms. I'm not sure where I stand on the forge gun, because if it is strong enough to destroy a tank by itself we just return to FGs up high, which is kind of crap for gameplay.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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Posted - 2015.08.15 20:33:00 -
[33] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:
Vehicles were never OP.
I never compromised because infantry's statement is "we're the majority of the community, so you have no say in it."
That is complete crap.
There was a phase where tanks were too strong. That infantry only had two AV nades that had just been nerfed really made it worse than it should have been.
That you refuse to admit that makes you really easy to ignore as a voice for balance.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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Posted - 2015.08.15 20:44:00 -
[34] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
Mostly I'm not giving my tank alt name because of spkr4thedead being in the thread. I'd like to have one character that I use on occasion and post with that doesn't have to deal with stalkerish, ex-girlfriend-like harassing sh*tposts whenever I talk.
On swarms: I cannot stress how much I hate them.
High point forge sniping: There needs to be a counter that isn't dependent upon using a dropship to get up there with him. Every play needs counterplay. And that counterplay needs to not just be the sniper with the thale. Honestly I'd prefer if HAVs could elevate the guns more.
So then send it to The Attorney General in a mail.
You have my word I won't post the name. I will discuss the stats, as they are relevant to the discussion.
Swarms are trash because they can't be balanced properly, especially now that the minmando is a thing. The minmando is extremely potent as a swarm carrier, but in an unbonused suit swarms are not even an annoyance unless they are massed.
I don't have a problem with that because I don't think that people should be delivering knockout blows with a auto aiming, fire from cover weapon.
AV nades being strong is important, because it keeps tankers honest. Knowing that driving into a pair of infantry could end with your explosion needs to remain a viable threat. Most infantry still won't carry them, but that is on them.
Totally agree on the rooftop forge. It becomes a serious gameplay challenge to make the FG effective without severely limiting the counter. I would prefer if they just put railings on the worst roofs, so that a FG can't get into a position where they have a lethal field of fire and can only be sniped at. Very treacherous area honestly for the devs, too much one way or the other and they go from dominating to unused.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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Posted - 2015.08.15 20:59:00 -
[35] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:
Look at that, another spreadsheet. Consider me not surprised. Pathetically predictable, really.
Actually that's what we call a "Document file" with words and logic. ATTACHED to that document are not one, but TEN linked spreadsheets that actually cover pretty much everything I have ever discussed and every point I have ever made, based roughly around the survivability of the Sagaris versus a single IAFG gunner from Chromosome. I know that math, logic and words are intimidating, but I'm sure you can eventually get over it.
I'm really baked right now, but where are the spreadsheets?
I have no problem with going back to active reps, but I would prefer to not have arbitrary limits on fitting. If someone wants to resist tank, it should be an option, although how effective it is can always be adjusted.
However, I do dispute your statement in the TL:DR portion that a dual rep, dual hardener fit is impossible to crack with any infantry AV and difficult with heavy turrets.
Advanced proxies have enough alpha to cut through a double hardened tank. Sure they are not a primary weapon, but they are extremely effective at nuking dual rep fits. With turrets, double basic damage modded XTs will cut right through a dual rep fit, as will a double damage modded Particle Cannon.
Hook me up with those spreadsheets though, or tell me how to get at them.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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Posted - 2015.08.15 21:01:00 -
[36] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:
Numbers on paper =/= gameplay conditions.
I don't know how many times I've said the above. A military commander once said "the best laid plans never survive first contact with the enemy." That translates into you believing with all your heart that numbers should be the only deciding factor in how AV and vehicles behave.
If the only metric for balance was how things went in game, this game would be even more of a mess than it is.
Do you use a special ed tanker to balance by, or a pro?
Muppet AV or gangster Alldin Kan with a Gastuns level?
Too many variables to take into account, and at some point you have to be able to point to a flat set of data that can be used for comparison if nothing else.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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Posted - 2015.08.15 21:03:00 -
[37] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:
Vehicles countered each other during Chromosome, and during Uprising 1.6. I don't see how that was a problem for infantry when you had pilots whacking the hell out of each other, with millions of ISK being lost between vehicles alone.
Because this is a lobby shooter with a broken matchmaker that can't assure each side of a tanker in each match.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
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Posted - 2015.08.15 22:36:00 -
[38] - Quote
byte modal wrote:all while calling out the other guy for doing eactly that. 9 pages in.... Awesome stuff of endurance. 
What hilarious is that I would normally agree with you.
Except Breakin and I just had a very productive discussion about tank balance.
He may still be an *******, but so am I and we can work together.
Progress, it can happen.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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