I say actually put time into it and make it a level playing field.

Sometimes I wonder if this game would not be in 10x better condition if they had left out vehicles instead of racial heavy weapons.

Seriously look at the incredible amount of time and energy that has been wasted in a couple of years for the same moronic back and forth to still be going on.

The tanks are supposed to go to the redline for module cool downs, it's vehicles form of out of play, infantry have the spawn que, vehicles have module cool downs in safe territory.

First off, why are you engaging an enemy supply depot without at all without your hardeners? Any time you ever engage an enemy knowing you are going in without support or the ability to self sustain, YOU are entirely at fault for ANY losses you sustain, no matter the isk cost. This holds true for any class in the game and tankers should not be special butterflys in this regard at all.

And milita is literally incapable of killing any tank without the tanker actively trying to lose the tank. Even a basic with max proficiency on a maxed commando with 3 proto damage mods, you can not die to a single clip even without hardeners or plates, and you have well over 8 seconds to GTFO before you start getting hit with the second clip.

And would you look at that, at 8 seconds, you're 180 meters away and are completely incapable of even being locked on by the swarmers.

It must be really hard for you to hold the stick backwards for 8 seconds and or get behind any of the plentiful nearby cover at all and be completely safe outside of a swarmers lock on.

Or, you know, wait for your invincibility timer to cool down and -then- engage.

Cry Moar.

Do you not set up your target? - too hard
Do you not track your shots? - too hard
Do you just not try aiming? - too hard
Do you only engage at the far end of your AV weapon? - too stupid
Can you not predict the (simplistic and very few) paths that a vehicle MUST take to get between targets? - too hard

I'm just wondering what the REAL issue is.

Came for tears and lies.

Left with a water truck fleet load.

Nice rant post.

Madrugars are OP.

Suck it.

Its all so funny that the only tankers to ever openly complain on the forums were all so known as some of the worst tankers in the game. In dust balance will never happen but we should remind you to git gud.

Honestly the brazilian tankers that never post on the forum seem to be the nastiest customers.

They really didn't have much reason to complain.

The one guy I put a buttshot into with a FG did an IMMEDIATE 90 degree turn and proceeded to eat the rest of my shots to the hull like a child in a gummi bear factory. By the time I reloaded he was gone and back to max armor.

Should've used a breach forge instead of a MLT forge.

It was entirely hilarious and enraging all at once.

For all the whining about hispanics and south americans people vomit out, some of them absolutely know how to run the tanks for max effect. And the good ones aren't the ones stutter-warping from lag.

Because they use teamwork and anything and everything necessary to wipe out enemy vehicles. English-speakers just cry that they can't destroy vehicles easily with MLT AV.

Buff raw HP, tone down Hardeners, move Heavy Reps to Active rather than Passive.

Would that balance (or at least start to balance) HAVs so that they're 1. No longer completely vulnerable and squishy without Hardeners and 2. No longer nigh on invincible /godmode with Hardeners.?

LOL funny because all i see are tankers complain that AV is OP , LOL 3 Lai Dais ive been in tanks that laugh at that hell ive been against tanks that let me get 12 swarm vollies and it acted like CCP adding full racial variants " meh We will get to it soon(TM)"

No matter the build, a tank with no hardeners is dead.



We have little choice but to be OP. Zero variety. Gunni can't hang ATM.
Running any fit other than dual or better hardened maddy is asking to lose isk.

XT trip damage missiles do squat against a trip hardened maddy.

I don't rail so idk.

The majesty here is the fact that infantry complaints brought us to this era. Stripped of all our wonderful mods and turrets, hulls, and other vehicles; its no wonder we run as powerful as we can and punish infantry any chance we get.

With the bumper physics fix, LLAV could make a comeback. But no, its a murder taxi

LDS could make a comeback with all the pythons and officer forges/swarms out there. But no, they are unkillable.

SLAV was overlooked but one of my faves. Honestly nobody has ever cried about them for any reason lol.
(except me, about getting gta style air then instapopping upon landing)

ADS could still be a tank hunter, but n.... Actually, I think us tankers cried on that one. But with max skills on pilot and gunner they could eviscerate a maxed HAV with a MLT turret.
Just CCP overdid it with that "balance pass"...

We used to run in packs and graze majestically upon each other.
Ran into a rail maddy with my gunni recently, and had to actually blink the crust away for a true battle against True lol. He was using driving skill, and tactics on me. I wasn't sure if I had fallen asleep playing and dreamt it or not.

Long story is long.
Pretty sure I speak for all true operators when I say that the current vehicle meta is BORING!
"Who's epeen is harder?..." RUNAWAYRUNAWAYRUNAWAY

Fun...

Because forcing someone to die and lose a full fit so they can engage you, or have to trundle about in an inferior vs infantry fit on the offchance you drop a vehicle is fair.

Might as well make it so vehicles can't destroy turret installations. One bad idea after another from you.

So...

Teamwork is unfair, somehow?

I consider that a nonfactor and automatically dismiss any complaints about vehicles exploding when dogpiled.

Don't tell him that. He was on a roll and I was laughing my ass off as the point flew right over his head.

So you were laughing your ass off because you didn't quote your reference?

Damn, you must be having a blast when you are out not killing tanks.

You seem to be under the delusion that I don't actually drive tanks.

I don't drive them on this, my infantry-focused character.

But sure, you keep thinking that I don't know what I'm talking about,chuckles.

Predictably, the broken record returns to regale us all with empty posts, haughty statements and meaningless talking points.

Welcome back spkr. Feel free to go crawl into the box with your PS3.

best you bring to the table is "this is what happens with me, therefore your points are irrelevant."

Why should I put more effort into refuting you than you put into proving a point?

So far you haven't put out a single point of testable evidence to back your claim, nor have you answered any point I have ever made.

As far as evasiveness, your glass house is cracking from all the rocks you're throwing.

And you certainly didn't help. because even when tanks were OP as all get out, you were acting like they were fine.

There is a place for rational discussion about balance matters, and you are not a person who should be included, because you refuse under any circumstances to be objective.

You are just as bad, if not worse than the people who cry and whine about tanks being OP.

Goddamn, I just realized how boring reading your posts is.

Like a skipped record. Same post, over and over and over and over...

Trying to figure out how the f*ck I never realized it before.

In any case, welcome back, I look forward to your empty posting at all points in the future.

So Hardeners were UP for a long while before Ratatti gave them a look over. Toning them down (lower resistance, higher fitting costs or hard cap, one of the three), adding a passive resistance, higher raw HP, Active Heavy Reps. Would that be balanced? Not fragile without Hardeners, not invincible with.

Been playing since beta?

On what character?

Sorry, but if you're going to claim you're a badass post on your main, or a character I've at least seen before.

Or posted on.

Or I give a crap about how you fought the imps, everyone fought the imps, and some people whined about it harder than others.

Tell ya what, pubbie. You put a little more effort into proving your points, and I'll give you the time of day, ok?

Until then, you're a newcomer with a loud mouth who has put zero work into helping the discussion about HAV balance, instead trying to refute any point that says, Madrugars are unbalanced.

You want me to take you seriously enough to care? What, if anything do you think it will take for AV/V balance?

Skip swarms. The goddamn things can't be balanced without making them OP or useless trash. They aren't worth discussing unless that discussion involves a dev uttering the words "So we're going to completely rebuild swarm launchers from the ground up..."

If you'd actually been on the forums longer than the last what, two, three months?

You'd know the answer.

Nah, I'd rather just string you along and let you think I'm lying.

If you had a detailed idea how to balance the two, you'd have posted it at some point.

But for the funzies, because I want to watch spkr4thedead foam at the mouth:

Some reading materiel. I imagine it'll make most drivers mad.

Actually Spkr, Breakin has said, multiple times in other threads, that vehicles need either a drop in ISK cost or SP investment, depending on if they're supposed to be a dedicated role just like Assault, Logi, Sentinel are roles (drop the ISK costs) or a freely available temporary power-up (drop the SP cost)

And just to reiterate, Spkr is dead wrong that a single dropsuit shouldn't be able to take out a tank.

The real question is how long should it take, and at what ranges can that kill be performed.

I personally think that any suit that isn't a minmando shouldn't be able to kill a tank with JUST swarms. I'm not sure where I stand on the forge gun, because if it is strong enough to destroy a tank by itself we just return to FGs up high, which is kind of crap for gameplay.

That is complete crap.

There was a phase where tanks were too strong. That infantry only had two AV nades that had just been nerfed really made it worse than it should have been.

That you refuse to admit that makes you really easy to ignore as a voice for balance.

Mostly I'm not giving my tank alt name because of spkr4thedead being in the thread. I'd like to have one character that I use on occasion and post with that doesn't have to deal with stalkerish, ex-girlfriend-like harassing sh*tposts whenever I talk.

On swarms: I cannot stress how much I hate them.

High point forge sniping: There needs to be a counter that isn't dependent upon using a dropship to get up there with him. Every play needs counterplay. And that counterplay needs to not just be the sniper with the thale. Honestly I'd prefer if HAVs could elevate the guns more.

Serious discussions about balance will always be entertained.

Just about every balance scenario should come with a price reduction allowing HAV and ADS/Dropship play to be as sustainable as my Forge Gun habit.

Actually that's what we call a "Document file" with words and logic.

ATTACHED to that document are not one, but TEN linked spreadsheets that actually cover pretty much everything I have ever discussed and every point I have ever made, based roughly around the survivability of the Sagaris versus a single IAFG gunner from Chromosome.

I know that math, logic and words are intimidating, but I'm sure you can eventually get over it.

I don't care spkr.

Have fun with warframe and planetside 2.

I wish you the best of luck and hope you drive over many squishy nerds.

Now run along and be useless somewhere else.

Say something worth the effort someday. To date, you haven't.

If the only metric for balance was how things went in game, this game would be even more of a mess than it is.

Do you use a special ed tanker to balance by, or a pro?

Muppet AV or gangster Alldin Kan with a Gastuns level?

Too many variables to take into account, and at some point you have to be able to point to a flat set of data that can be used for comparison if nothing else.

Because this is a lobby shooter with a broken matchmaker that can't assure each side of a tanker in each match.

Emphasis mine.

First, i know jack about tanks and av balance. Im just reading for the entertainment factor alone as posters post full on fingers in the ear to any view other than their own, all while calling out the other guy for doing eactly that. 9 pages in.... Awesome stuff of endurance.

Second, make an effort to read the entire thread before babbling already resolved posts from page 1-2.

Third, and finally, it's jacked up logic like what's quoted that make people laugh and troll your self-absorbed rhetoric on tanks. Please though, continue your crusade of complaining infantry won't compromise while doing exactly what you're bemoaning others of.

My heads hurts, but it's all just so awesomely silly to stop reading.

I say, repeal all vehicular helmet and seatbelt laws. Let darwinism do it's job again by thinning the heard.

Just IMHO.

Mutual hatred of stupidity brought us together.

Seriously though. Peer review.

If you can parse numbers and you give a crap about AV/V balance


Go Here and then come back and comment.

WARNING!

Link may or may not lead to actual proposal.

Link may or may not actually lead to the loudest midget **** website in existence.

Link may or may not be safe for work.

When exactly was the last time you saw a Dust battlefield?

Troll, or oblivious?

Honest question =/