This is the big issue.

Absolutely, 100% an AV player should have to put themselves at risk to take a run at the tank to kill it. If you want single suits to be able to solo tanks, then they MUST be engageable. Allowing a single suit to dominate from long range(not swarms range, but forge) completely screws that balance. Allowing a single suit on a roof to shut down huge swaths of the map, especially given the rendering problems in this game is horrible gameplay for everyone except the forger. I know you want to be that guy, striking out from heaven in a 1400 hp fat suit, but it isn't good gameplay.

Why do you think that you should have to put in no risk to kill someone who is putting ISK and their ass on the line?

So...

Teamwork is unfair, somehow?

I consider that a nonfactor and automatically dismiss any complaints about vehicles exploding when dogpiled.

bring back old vehicle/turret variants

In reference Breakin's post, he was referring to an earlier post about removing the ability for infantry to change fits a depot, which would essentially mean having to waste a fit just to be able to swap in to an AV fit, from AV to AI or even swap between AI fits.

But you act like people can't complain about one or the other simply because a single suit can't wield them both.

Which is stupid.

Don't tell him that. He was on a roll and I was laughing my ass off as the point flew right over his head.

Whenever vehicles are clearly OP and allow even mediocre and crapass pilots to go 30/1 the claim is "nope that's totally fair" go out.

Vehicles aren't the obstacle of balance. The drivers are.

OK, well since I know you are craptastic at AV, are you willing to but your rear in a tank that I give you and go 30/1?

Vehicles aren't the problem in my opinion. Vehicles can be balanced and made fair. However, the drivers can't be, and the instant a vehicle can be killed the cries go out about how useless it now is.

Because forcing someone to die and lose a full fit so they can engage you, or have to trundle about in an inferior vs infantry fit on the offchance you drop a vehicle is fair.

And no, commandos aren't the only AV fits worth talking about.

Every obsessive tanker fanboy b*tching about commandos.

Or laidais

Or both, as if you could combine the two somehow.

You seem to be under the delusion that I don't actually drive tanks.

I don't drive them on this, my infantry-focused character.

But sure, you keep thinking that I don't know what I'm talking about,chuckles.

I say actually put time into it and make it a level playing field.

Name your tanking alt. We can check the stats.

But of course better proof is you getting in a squad with me and showing me. Otherwise you are just talking sh*t to deflect from your lack of an actual argument.

Sometimes I wonder if this game would not be in 10x better condition if they had left out vehicles instead of racial heavy weapons.

Seriously look at the incredible amount of time and energy that has been wasted in a couple of years for the same moronic back and forth to still be going on.

The tanks are supposed to go to the redline for module cool downs, it's vehicles form of out of play, infantry have the spawn que, vehicles have module cool downs in safe territory.

First off, why are you engaging an enemy supply depot without at all without your hardeners? Any time you ever engage an enemy knowing you are going in without support or the ability to self sustain, YOU are entirely at fault for ANY losses you sustain, no matter the isk cost. This holds true for any class in the game and tankers should not be special butterflys in this regard at all.

And milita is literally incapable of killing any tank without the tanker actively trying to lose the tank. Even a basic with max proficiency on a maxed commando with 3 proto damage mods, you can not die to a single clip even without hardeners or plates, and you have well over 8 seconds to GTFO before you start getting hit with the second clip.

And would you look at that, at 8 seconds, you're 180 meters away and are completely incapable of even being locked on by the swarmers.

It must be really hard for you to hold the stick backwards for 8 seconds and or get behind any of the plentiful nearby cover at all and be completely safe outside of a swarmers lock on.

Or, you know, wait for your invincibility timer to cool down and -then- engage.

Cry Moar.

Do you not set up your target? - too hard
Do you not track your shots? - too hard
Do you just not try aiming? - too hard
Do you only engage at the far end of your AV weapon? - too stupid
Can you not predict the (simplistic and very few) paths that a vehicle MUST take to get between targets? - too hard

I'm just wondering what the REAL issue is.

Came for tears and lies.

Left with a water truck fleet load.

Nice rant post.

Madrugars are OP.

Suck it.

Its all so funny that the only tankers to ever openly complain on the forums were all so known as some of the worst tankers in the game. In dust balance will never happen but we should remind you to git gud.

Whole bunch of fluff to avoid the requested proof.

Predictably, there's the spreadsheet warrior who doesn't play, and who can't explain his statements.

Honestly the brazilian tankers that never post on the forum seem to be the nastiest customers.

If tanks are as OP as you say, then provide your tanker alts name, surely he has a 20:1 K:D ratio. Now a good K:d isn't everything, but as you said, you don't die unless you get a tank interfering with your business.

Of course you won't though, because your stats won't match your claims.

Or you could demonstrate to me personally, but you won't, because you can't take getting laughed at when you muppet the whip.

I appreciate that you took the trouble to type that out, but it doesn't mitigate you dodging a simple question. That says so much more than that wall of text.

It's because infantry incessantly cried about vehicles, and how they couldn't nuke them with one volley from MLT swarms, thus the reason vehicles have been dragged through the mud for so long, and pilots being treated like second class citizens.

They really didn't have much reason to complain.

The one guy I put a buttshot into with a FG did an IMMEDIATE 90 degree turn and proceeded to eat the rest of my shots to the hull like a child in a gummi bear factory. By the time I reloaded he was gone and back to max armor.

Should've used a breach forge instead of a MLT forge.

It was entirely hilarious and enraging all at once.

For all the whining about hispanics and south americans people vomit out, some of them absolutely know how to run the tanks for max effect. And the good ones aren't the ones stutter-warping from lag.

Because they use teamwork and anything and everything necessary to wipe out enemy vehicles. English-speakers just cry that they can't destroy vehicles easily with MLT AV.

Buff raw HP, tone down Hardeners, move Heavy Reps to Active rather than Passive.

Would that balance (or at least start to balance) HAVs so that they're 1. No longer completely vulnerable and squishy without Hardeners and 2. No longer nigh on invincible /godmode with Hardeners.?

LOL funny because all i see are tankers complain that AV is OP , LOL 3 Lai Dais ive been in tanks that laugh at that hell ive been against tanks that let me get 12 swarm vollies and it acted like CCP adding full racial variants " meh We will get to it soon(TM)"

No matter the build, a tank with no hardeners is dead.



We have little choice but to be OP. Zero variety. Gunni can't hang ATM.
Running any fit other than dual or better hardened maddy is asking to lose isk.

XT trip damage missiles do squat against a trip hardened maddy.

I don't rail so idk.

The majesty here is the fact that infantry complaints brought us to this era. Stripped of all our wonderful mods and turrets, hulls, and other vehicles; its no wonder we run as powerful as we can and punish infantry any chance we get.

With the bumper physics fix, LLAV could make a comeback. But no, its a murder taxi

LDS could make a comeback with all the pythons and officer forges/swarms out there. But no, they are unkillable.

SLAV was overlooked but one of my faves. Honestly nobody has ever cried about them for any reason lol.
(except me, about getting gta style air then instapopping upon landing)

ADS could still be a tank hunter, but n.... Actually, I think us tankers cried on that one. But with max skills on pilot and gunner they could eviscerate a maxed HAV with a MLT turret.
Just CCP overdid it with that "balance pass"...

We used to run in packs and graze majestically upon each other.
Ran into a rail maddy with my gunni recently, and had to actually blink the crust away for a true battle against True lol. He was using driving skill, and tactics on me. I wasn't sure if I had fallen asleep playing and dreamt it or not.

Long story is long.
Pretty sure I speak for all true operators when I say that the current vehicle meta is BORING!
"Who's epeen is harder?..." RUNAWAYRUNAWAYRUNAWAY

Fun...

best you bring to the table is "this is what happens with me, therefore your points are irrelevant."

Why should I put more effort into refuting you than you put into proving a point?

So far you haven't put out a single point of testable evidence to back your claim, nor have you answered any point I have ever made.

As far as evasiveness, your glass house is cracking from all the rocks you're throwing.

Your the person making claims about tanks being unstoppable.

Your the person saying you never die in your tank to AV. All you have to do is provide a toon name for your tanker to back that up. That you won't suggests that you don't have the numbers to back up your claims. Not that numbers alone tell the whole story, but it would at least give us a statistical basis to work from.

You say that I am dismissive of other people points, when in this very thread I acknowledge that the FG needs a buff to either ROF or alpha, and that AV grenades might even use a slight buff, but I am the one being obtuse?

Bluntly, either put up or shut up. You say you tank, give us the name. You say you don't die, lets see you do it.