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Megaman Trigger
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Posted - 2015.08.13 12:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Buff raw HP, tone down Hardeners, move Heavy Reps to Active rather than Passive.
Would that balance (or at least start to balance) HAVs so that they're 1. No longer completely vulnerable and squishy without Hardeners and 2. No longer nigh on invincible /godmode with Hardeners.?
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Megaman Trigger
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Posted - 2015.08.14 20:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
General Mosquito wrote:
I didn't assume anything. You said you fired twelve volleys of swarms at a tank. Since you didn't make any mention of using av nades, you weren't close.
Or was running a Commando. Just sayin'
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Posted - 2015.08.14 20:53:00 -
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General Mosquito wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:General Mosquito wrote:
I didn't assume anything. You said you fired twelve volleys of swarms at a tank. Since you didn't make any mention of using av nades, you weren't close.
Or was running a Commando. Just sayin' Minmando eats tanks, and it doesn't take 12 volleys.
Agreed that Minmanndo made a mess of vehicles, and soon the Calmanndo will take over.
That said, I don't think the Galmanndo and Ammanndo can do the DPS with Swarms to drop a hardened HAV before the Hardeners give out, which I think is shorter than 12 volleys.
Did PRG even specify if Proto Swarms were used or did she just say swarms and leave it ambiguous?
EDIT: we're assuming race and, possibly, tier (tho that might be me)
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Posted - 2015.08.14 20:57:00 -
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Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:General Mosquito wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:General Mosquito wrote:
I didn't assume anything. You said you fired twelve volleys of swarms at a tank. Since you didn't make any mention of using av nades, you weren't close.
Or was running a Commando. Just sayin' Minmando eats tanks, and it doesn't take 12 volleys. Agreed that Minmanndo made a mess of vehicles, and soon the Calmanndo will take over. That said, I don't think the Galmanndo and Ammanndo can do the DPS with Swarms to drop a hardened HAV before the Hardeners give out, which I think is shorter than 12 volleys. Did PRG even specify if Proto Swarms were used or did she just say swarms and leave it ambiguous? no i didnt say but he is under that assumption ( correct word usage) that i was.
So you could have been using basic swarms on a Galmanndo, right?
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Posted - 2015.08.14 21:13:00 -
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General Mosquito wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:
So you could have been using basic swarms on a Galmanndo, right?
Is that the metric we are going to use now? If someone can destroy a tank with an unbonused milita weapon then tanks are balanced?
Never said that, just figuring out whar PRG used.
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Posted - 2015.08.15 15:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
General Mosquito wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:
Because forcing someone to die and lose a full fit so they can engage you
This is the big issue. Absolutely, 100% an AV player should have to put themselves at risk to take a run at the tank to kill it. If you want single suits to be able to solo tanks, then they MUST be engageable. Allowing a single suit to dominate from long range(not swarms range, but forge) completely screws that balance. Allowing a single suit on a roof to shut down huge swaths of the map, especially given the rendering problems in this game is horrible gameplay for everyone except the forger. I know you want to be that guy, striking out from heaven in a 1400 hp fat suit, but it isn't good gameplay. Why do you think that you should have to put in no risk to kill someone who is putting ISK and their ass on the line?
In reference Breakin's post, he was referring to an earlier post about removing the ability for infantry to change fits a depot, which would essentially mean having to waste a fit just to be able to swap in to an AV fit, from AV to AI or even swap between AI fits.
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Posted - 2015.08.15 20:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:Buff raw HP, tone down Hardeners, move Heavy Reps to Active rather than Passive.
Would that balance (or at least start to balance) HAVs so that they're 1. No longer completely vulnerable and squishy without Hardeners and 2. No longer nigh on invincible /godmode with Hardeners.? All CCP ever did was nerf hardeners due to the incessant whining from infantry. The first time they were ever buffed was when Rattati did the big vehicle sweep.
So Hardeners were UP for a long while before Ratatti gave them a look over. Toning them down (lower resistance, higher fitting costs or hard cap, one of the three), adding a passive resistance, higher raw HP, Active Heavy Reps. Would that be balanced? Not fragile without Hardeners, not invincible with.
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Posted - 2015.08.15 20:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:
[i]"It's not fair if a single infantryman can destroy my (insert vehicle here) solo. It should require teamwork."
Why should a suit with a few million SP be able to easily destroy a vehicle with 60 million SP and over 1 million ISK sunk into it? That's the pilot community's gripe, which you have always countered with no logical reason.
Actually Spkr, Breakin has said, multiple times in other threads, that vehicles need either a drop in ISK cost or SP investment, depending on if they're supposed to be a dedicated role just like Assault, Logi, Sentinel are roles (drop the ISK costs) or a freely available temporary power-up (drop the SP cost)
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Posted - 2015.08.15 21:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
General Mosquito wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:
Look at that, another spreadsheet. Consider me not surprised. Pathetically predictable, really.
Actually that's what we call a "Document file" with words and logic. ATTACHED to that document are not one, but TEN linked spreadsheets that actually cover pretty much everything I have ever discussed and every point I have ever made, based roughly around the survivability of the Sagaris versus a single IAFG gunner from Chromosome. I know that math, logic and words are intimidating, but I'm sure you can eventually get over it. I'm really baked right now, but where are the spreadsheets? I have no problem with going back to active reps, but I would prefer to not have arbitrary limits on fitting. If someone wants to resist tank, it should be an option, although how effective it is can always be adjusted. However, I do dispute your statement in the TL:DR portion that a dual rep, dual hardener fit is impossible to crack with any infantry AV and difficult with heavy turrets. Advanced proxies have enough alpha to cut through a double hardened tank. Sure they are not a primary weapon, but they are extremely effective at nuking dual rep fits. With turrets, double basic damage modded XTs will cut right through a dual rep fit, as will a double damage modded Particle Cannon. Hook me up with those spreadsheets though, or tell me how to get at them.
Each weapon header under "reasoning" is a link to the spreadsheet for that weapon.
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Megaman Trigger
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Posted - 2015.08.15 22:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
General Mosquito wrote:byte modal wrote:all while calling out the other guy for doing eactly that. 9 pages in.... Awesome stuff of endurance.  What hilarious is that I would normally agree with you. Except Breakin and I just had a very productive discussion about tank balance. He may still be an *******, but so am I and we can work together. Progress, it can happen.
Glad to hear you both getting there in the end.
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