DUST Search - Sticky:[Update] Planetary Conquest Updated Designs

Archduke Ferd1nand wrote:

One question/comment/concern: So you stated that DK (which as I see it determines your ISK reward from sale of clones, and is a lot like "stock" in a corporation, in a way) is received from doing corporate missions for command points. This makes logical sense, but what about players who actively participate in PC, and have little time to do said missions?

When Corps become very large, FC's and slayers alike will be in very high demand for PC's because you need to field good, clutch players. Because of this, if there are a lot of attacks going on at once, you will have very little time to do pubs, and need to focus all of your energy on running PC's.

How do these players get compensated for this? These players are the ones making more of a sacrifice financially, in my opinion. In a pub, its fairly easy to go 30/0 in a free suit, but in PC, 25/8 in full proto is a very respectable score, and is also quite a bit more costly (~200k per death). While the players are getting payed from the battle for winning, what about losses? How are they compensated for putting time into battles when they lose? The system makes it more financially advisable to be a poor player who can't PC, but is active enough to do missions and essentially leech from the players who are going through a meat grinder in full proto.

Please implement a DK reward system that reflects on PC activity, and if possible, performance.

Please also correct me if I am viewing this entirely incorrectly, and need to reread the OP Big smile

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 14 post(s)
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2015.05.26 08:00:00 - [121] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: Has there been discussion in the Think Tank on the kinds of items can be purchased with District Kredits? Just that they cannot be more powerful than normal items. They need to be exclusive, and different. SKINs are an obvious first step, and I am open to suggestions. Run the risk of reduced interest in that case though. Why use DK when I can just ISK, which is more reliable; Aurum, which opens up options earlier on; or LP, which in the case of Specialist gear is a marked improvement? Honestly, the SKINs might be interesting, but if DKs don't get me access to any 'black market' goods that give me a competitive edge (like Specialist, Officer, or Experimental gear) then I don't really see a point in even using them for any reason other than to trade for ISK. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 318	Posted - 2015.05.26 08:20:00 - [122] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: Has there been discussion in the Think Tank on the kinds of items can be purchased with District Kredits? Just that they cannot be more powerful than normal items. They need to be exclusive, and different. SKINs are an obvious first step, and I am open to suggestions. Run the risk of reduced interest in that case though. Why use DK when I can just ISK, which is more reliable; Aurum, which opens up options earlier on; or LP, which in the case of Specialist gear is a marked improvement? Honestly, the SKINs might be interesting, but if DKs don't get me access to any 'black market' goods that give me a competitive edge (like Specialist, Officer, or Experimental gear) then I don't really see a point in even using them for any reason other than to trade for ISK. Exactly, the stuff will need to be awesome to get PC going again. It'll have to be awesome in order to get derp corps interested enough to even use their CP. Thor's Emporium
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2015.05.26 08:31:00 - [123] - Quote thor424 wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: Has there been discussion in the Think Tank on the kinds of items can be purchased with District Kredits? Just that they cannot be more powerful than normal items. They need to be exclusive, and different. SKINs are an obvious first step, and I am open to suggestions. Run the risk of reduced interest in that case though. Why use DK when I can just ISK, which is more reliable; Aurum, which opens up options earlier on; or LP, which in the case of Specialist gear is a marked improvement? Honestly, the SKINs might be interesting, but if DKs don't get me access to any 'black market' goods that give me a competitive edge (like Specialist, Officer, or Experimental gear) then I don't really see a point in even using them for any reason other than to trade for ISK. Exactly, the stuff will need to be awesome to get PC going again. It'll have to be awesome in order to get derp corps interested enough to even use their CP. I mean hell, if you gave me a grenade that acted as a 'laser designator' for an orbital scan without requiring a squad lead role, I'd spend DKs on that. If you allowed me to purchase Turrets that were automatically hacked for my team at the start of the battle, I'd spend DKs on that. But normal gear, I'll never do it just because of the amount of effort involved in getting DKs and the bullshit I have to go through in the fitting screen to actually get the gear -on my suit-. Having a suit with hybrid currency items is a nightmare to deal with. Want to restock to 10? TOO BAD, YOU GOT PLENTY OF ISK BUT NOT ENOUGH DKS Make another fit with just ISK items. Next thing you know you have like, 16 different variations of the same suit just because of the currency bumbling. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.26 10:10:00 - [124] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: I completely disagree with the premise of equal distribution DK's for active involvement in building up command points. There is a clear difference between a member completing daily mission's and active A-team player in PC. The idea that selling clones for DK's is evenly distributed, is again absolutely absurd. It should be in the CEO's authority to distribute the DK's just like ISK and the taxing system. Incentive for higher rewards should be an option just like equal rewards. Maybe read the design again? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Bright Steel Horizons' Edge No Context 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 10:25:00 - [125] - Quote thor424 wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: I completely disagree with the premise of equal distribution DK's for active involvement in building up command points. There is a clear difference between a member completing daily mission's and active A-team player in PC. The idea that selling clones for DK's is evenly distributed, is again absolutely absurd. It should be in the CEO's authority to distribute the DK's just like ISK and the taxing system. Incentive for higher rewards should be an option just like equal rewards. As long as PC players receive DKs for winning matches in the EOM screen I don't think it's that big of a deal. To be honest this is really the first tangible benefit of even being in a corp in Dust. Besides the tag and being able to enter corporate PC battles (with roles) directly you could accomplish the same thing with just a chat channel. Also lets ones not on the A-team rooster to have some part in the corps PC efforts and rewards weather they are casual vets or new up and coming mercs. Dust 514, the BEST WORST game you can't stop playing.
Bright Steel Horizons' Edge No Context 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 10:31:00 - [126] - Quote And as far as the DK, it was mentioned to allow it to be used universally in the loyalty market, meaning I can be loyal to the minmatar but still buy imperial uplinks without betraying my faction. This allows use of the current specialty items in the loyalty market and if we couple that with additional "specialty" items added it would serve a duel purpose to also help encourage FW to a degree. I do think it should allow access to more then just the loyalty market though.... Dust 514, the BEST WORST game you can't stop playing.
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 10:33:00 - [127] - Quote ^ That I didn't know. Cool. Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
Bright Steel Horizons' Edge No Context 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 10:40:00 - [128] - Quote Here's a thought, what if we give DK access to loyalty market as I said ^ as a place holder for future use as private currency for the pirate "specialty/hybrid" suits we have been wanting. and not just suits, we could have modules as well. since these would be the easiest on dev time and system memory we could start here. They could be hybrid models. Ex. Complex Damage mod armor plate 50 armor 1% movement penalty 4% damage mod Sheild regulator and energizes in one Kincat and microfibes in one Really all sorts of hybrid modeuls that aren't OP but unique and nichey Edit: Many people have asked for low slot damage mods, high slot code breakers and such, I would think it would be fairly easy to make that happen here right? Dust 514, the BEST WORST game you can't stop playing.
BRUTAL TRON Eternal Beings 25	Posted - 2015.05.26 12:08:00 - [129] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: I may have missed the point in the thread somewhere, I just woke up, but if I'm understanding right you can no longer get ISK directly from PC right (aside from battles) ? You have to use the DK credit that you earn during battles just to make an ISK profit from PC? Yeah, you keep the ISK value of what you kill in PC battles. The logistics role will be the ones suffering the most since they dont often kill enemies in PC. There must be a way to help the logi earn some isk because he needs to deal with most enemies with a reptool or any other equipment in his hand.. Correct me if i misunderstood something here. Logi mk.0/\ Assault ak.0 & mk.0 /\Scout mk.0 & gk.0
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 12:25:00 - [130] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: I completely disagree with the premise of equal distribution DK's for active involvement in building up command points. There is a clear difference between a member completing daily mission's and active A-team player in PC. The idea that selling clones for DK's is evenly distributed, is again absolutely absurd. It should be in the CEO's authority to distribute the DK's just like ISK and the taxing system. Incentive for higher rewards should be an option just like equal rewards. Maybe read the design again? is there going to be a tool or mechanic implemented for distributing DK's isk and items amoung corp members or will we still be doing this manually like cavemen in this very modern age of science and technology? will there finally be corp assets?

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9	Posted - 2015.05.26 12:27:00 - [131] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: Bright Steel wrote: And as far as the DK, it was mentioned to allow it to be used universally in the loyalty market, meaning I can be loyal to the minmatar but still buy imperial uplinks without betraying my faction. This allows use of the current specialty items in the loyalty market and if we couple that with additional "specialty" items added it would serve a duel purpose to also help encourage FW to a degree. I do think it should allow access to more then just the loyalty market though.... ^ That I didn't know. Cool. This (good idea) was suggested by a player, not by Rattati. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9	Posted - 2015.05.26 13:12:00 - [132] - Quote BRUTAL TRON wrote: The logistics role will be the ones suffering the most since they dont often kill enemies in PC. There must be a way to help the logi earn some isk because he needs to deal with most enemies with a reptool or any other equipment in his hand.. Correct me if i misunderstood something here. The new pay structure went live today with 1.1.2. My understanding is that kill "values" are pooled per side, and payouts dispensed by WP ranking, in which case the relative earning potential of Logis would remain unchanged. You should be able to test the new pay structure today by queueing for FW. CCP Rattati wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: , the 'Keep what you kill...' Is this based on the individual or is it the team as a whole, and the total isk value of destroyed gear divided up evenly? If its by individual, what payout method is in place for Logis to earn thier fair share of ISK? It's not by individual and it's already turned on in PC. Team A splits the losses of Team B equally and vice versa. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Mobius Wyvern Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 13:22:00 - [133] - Quote Would it be possible to call the new currency Inter-Planetary or just Planetary Credits? Also: CCP Rattati wrote: for the greater good CCP Rattati confirmed for Tau. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Archduke Ferd1nand Nos Nothi 482	Posted - 2015.05.26 13:45:00 - [134] - Quote One question/comment/concern: So you stated that DK (which as I see it determines your ISK reward from sale of clones, and is a lot like "stock" in a corporation, in a way) is received from doing corporate missions for command points. This makes logical sense, but what about players who actively participate in PC, and have little time to do said missions? When Corps become very large, FC's and slayers alike will be in very high demand for PC's because you need to field good, clutch players. Because of this, if there are a lot of attacks going on at once, you will have very little time to do pubs, and need to focus all of your energy on running PC's. How do these players get compensated for this? These players are the ones making more of a sacrifice financially, in my opinion. In a pub, its fairly easy to go 30/0 in a free suit, but in PC, 25/8 in full proto is a very respectable score, and is also quite a bit more costly (~200k per death). While the players are getting payed from the battle for winning, what about losses? How are they compensated for putting time into battles when they lose? The system makes it more financially advisable to be a poor player who can't PC, but is active enough to do missions and essentially leech from the players who are going through a meat grinder in full proto. Please implement a DK reward system that reflects on PC activity, and if possible, performance. Please also correct me if I am viewing this entirely incorrectly, and need to reread the OP BRB, looking for socks PSN: tommygunboy2080 I shit shotgun shells and piss Remote Explosives
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2015.05.26 14:03:00 - [135] - Quote Nice work. It's a good enough design, with enough thought put into it, that at this point we pretty much need to playtest the hell out of it. A bit of feedback: Currency/Stores bloat is awkward and immersion breaking. But given current resources, forgivable. In the long term, however, motivating/driving PC is best done with in-game strategic resources - they naturally create immersive dynamics and player investment without the need for designing and balancing a double handful of ad-hoc rules. DKs must not drive power creep. Asymmetric playing field is a beautiful thing, but with gobs of peeps running around in officer gear we're pretty much at the playable limit, imo. DK farming. How will the game calculate DKs for players who join/quit multiple matches? Ringers. There is no current anti-ringer mechanic. An automatic DK cost for bringing a non-corp merc into a PC battle would help. Alliances. We could prolly achieve something with one small mechanic: a simple flag that indicates a merc's alliance membership would allow reduced()by maybe 25%) DK cost for fielding ringers who were alliance members. PSN: RationalSpark
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2015.05.26 14:04:00 - [136] - Quote Archduke Ferd1nand wrote: One question/comment/concern: So you stated that DK (which as I see it determines your ISK reward from sale of clones, and is a lot like "stock" in a corporation, in a way) is received from doing corporate missions for command points. This makes logical sense, but what about players who actively participate in PC, and have little time to do said missions? When Corps become very large, FC's and slayers alike will be in very high demand for PC's because you need to field good, clutch players. Because of this, if there are a lot of attacks going on at once, you will have very little time to do pubs, and need to focus all of your energy on running PC's. How do these players get compensated for this? These players are the ones making more of a sacrifice financially, in my opinion. In a pub, its fairly easy to go 30/0 in a free suit, but in PC, 25/8 in full proto is a very respectable score, and is also quite a bit more costly (~200k per death). While the players are getting payed from the battle for winning, what about losses? How are they compensated for putting time into battles when they lose? The system makes it more financially advisable to be a poor player who can't PC, but is active enough to do missions and essentially leech from the players who are going through a meat grinder in full proto. Please implement a DK reward system that reflects on PC activity, and if possible, performance. Please also correct me if I am viewing this entirely incorrectly, and need to reread the OP DKs can be given directly to players, according to the OP. PSN: RationalSpark
Haerr The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 2	Posted - 2015.05.26 17:14:00 - [137] - Quote DK Items Assault Rifle (Scoped) Breach Assault Rifle (Scoped) Burst Assault Rifle (Ironsight) Tactical Assault Rifle (Ironsight) Assault Rail Rifle (Scoped) Rail Rifle (Ironsight) Proto Breach ScP Various Missing Variants of weapons and equipments. BPC Corp SKINs?
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9	Posted - 2015.05.26 17:48:00 - [138] - Quote Haerr wrote: DK Items: BPC Corp SKINs? \o/ Derive Corp SKIN palette from colors used in Corp Logo? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Balistyc Farshot OUTCAST MERCS General Tso's Alliance 191	Posted - 2015.05.26 18:01:00 - [139] - Quote If you are looking for things to sell us for DK. My thoughts: Items to change the thresholds of payouts - Salvage module 10% bonus to all isk values Items to change the thresholds of OBs - Drops the cost for all OBs by 15% Neural interface upgrade - Faster spawning down to the minimum - Turns junk uplinks into decent ones Environmental controls - Let a team spend DK to control the environmental effect Side choice - Spend DK to choose your side of the fight PC Vehicle spawn tokens - You need to spend DK to bring vehicles into PCs - I know (bring in the vehicle hate squad, but most corps reimburse for the pilots so just a few tears) 10 second head start - Make a huge amount of DK able to be spent on getting a head start by 10 seconds Radio silence - Spend a set amount of DK and stop each item in turn from being called, OBs, LAVs, HAV, DS Super virus - After completing a hack and spending the points - this point can not be counter hacked, you have to wait it out and turn it These are all ideas that do not involve new items. With the team chat gone, we need to really start leveraging the squad finder!
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 18:14:00 - [140] - Quote I suggested DKs being applied to the LP store as a placeholder since thus far, despite the current and proposed changes to PC payouts, there's been zero info released as to the specifics of what DKs are for. As a placeholder the LP store access works but is entirely intended as a temporary, short term, solution so that DKs can be introduced as more than something that equals nothing. Anyone curious about the current PC payout structure and its rewards is encouraged to go to Dust Charts and scroll back a few weeks to when the payouts were changed. The utter cliff that PC activity dropped off of is the payout structure and what it has inspired. ****** up part is that the structure was changed to stop farmers from wantonly farming isk off districts to pubstomp while never actually being PC active. Instead, farmers now just farm differently and the previously PC active individuals /corps have little to no reason to PC payout-wise since payout-wise whatever the new scheme is supposed to be it isn't ready yet BUT the nerf part is done. See you all in the lag! o7 Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 18:28:00 - [141] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: The real core question insofar as DKs go as currency is where exactly are they to be relative to the other existing currencies? Is our economy 1/3 isk 1/3 LP 1/3 DKs? Or is it to be 1/2 isk, 1/25 LP 1/25 DK? Or is it to be 3/4 DK, 1/50 isk, 1/50 LP? What exactly is that balance being geared towards? Once that question is answered, then we can look to those individual currencies and see how their relative "buying power" works in alignment with their proposed position in the ratio. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 18:34:00 - [142] - Quote And I absolutely hate the idea of "selling" SP. That idea is way to much of a handout to altfarmers wrapped as a "gift" to newbies for my liking. Newbies now have immensely more opportunies to make significantly more SP faster than any of us old vets. The idea whether or not that they should earn it on their own themselves shouldn't even be a question. Or possible change. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2015.05.26 21:40:00 - [143] - Quote Potential idea on what you could offer up for District Kredits: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2791926#post2791926 (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.27 00:18:00 - [144] - Quote Archduke Ferd1nand wrote: Please also correct me if I am viewing this entirely incorrectly, and need to reread the OP Please re-read the OP Especially the part where DK's are also awarded for PC battles! "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Mr.Pepe Le Pew Art.of.Death 130	Posted - 2015.05.27 01:17:00 - [145] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are not implementing anything to benefit alliances. Alliances exist as a strategic element and as such must provide its own benefit. There is no built-in benefit intended, now or ever. Ringers helping alliance buddies, is nothing more and nothing less, than exactly that. you will quickly find yourself at odds with the community at whole on this matter I (for one) wouldn't mind seeing Corps fighting their own battles. Agreed. I think bonuses to alliances would break this game. Weaker corporations will now have to either work harder to recruit, or join a better corporation than their own. Rattati hit it on the nail, Alliances have their own strategic purposes now, and should be content in being able to ring for their buddies. Period. CEO / Art.of.Death
Heracles Porsche Capital Acquisitions LLC 347	Posted - 2015.05.27 01:36:00 - [146] - Quote How is this system going to affect players and corporations who only log on for PCs? Videos Erry Day https://www.youtube.com/c/HeraclesPorsche
Dreis ShadowWeaver 0uter.Heaven 4	Posted - 2015.05.27 01:47:00 - [147] - Quote Heracles Porsche wrote: How is this system going to affect players and corporations who only log on for PCs? I can't imagine that it'll affect them any differently than those who play a mix of PC, Pubs and FW. Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel My Minja Blog Caldari blood, Matari heart <3
Optimus Last Prime TRAILS AND TRIBULATIONS 11	Posted - 2015.05.27 01:48:00 - [148] - Quote Yes, it won't affect them that much. -I want metalevel lockout as quick as possible Plz ._.
Kaughst Nyain San 825	Posted - 2015.05.27 11:33:00 - [149] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Pseudogenesis wrote: Are there any systems in place to prevent huge megacorporations which dominate the playing field through sheer numbers? This system seems like it encourages PC-ready players to seek out powerful/successful corporations. If some corp is dominating a lot of space, they'll get a lot of recruits. More recruits = more CP and fighters = more power. The big corps get bigger, and the small corps get steamrolled. What would incentivise joining a small up-and-coming corporation instead of the massive one that already holds all the power? I am hoping that there will be diminishing returns to corp sizes. The larger it becomes, the less efficient at earning CP. But I have said it before, if everyone agrees to hold hands and not fight through non-aggression pacts, we may need to something. EVE seems to continue to breed strife and aggression, so I hope the same happens here. What if...smaller corporations get better returns instead. "Remember: no matter the circumstances, there will always be people willing to push you down a hole."
Archduke Ferd1nand Nos Nothi 483	Posted - 2015.05.27 23:11:00 - [150] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Archduke Ferd1nand wrote: Please also correct me if I am viewing this entirely incorrectly, and need to reread the OP Please re-read the OP Especially the part where DK's are also awarded for PC battles! Reread it, and find it to be much better +1 Rattati, Im thoroughly impressed. Lucrative yet non exploitable are difficult parameters to work with, but you met the challenge in the only way possible, which is by introducing a new currency. Brilliant. BRB, looking for socks PSN: tommygunboy2080 I shit shotgun shells and piss Remote Explosives



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