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Let's Talk about the Core Locus Grenade

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Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9885	Posted - 2015.05.01 20:58:00 - [1] - Quote Cook for two seconds, instant or near kill. Things do way too much damage for the ability to simply cook and collect bacon over a 7.2m radius. To be clear, the effective range of this thing is larger then than of the Shotgun's optimal range. For 720 damage to armor you effectively negate the entire defense of most suits just by holding down the button for a few seconds. IMO, grenade shouldn't be the first thing you resort to when in an engagement. Softening targets is one thing but killing multiple targets outright is a little ridiculous. For such a low-skill weapon, it's power needs to be scaled down rather dramatically. It's not like placing a well-aimed PLC shot or Forge-gun round (who's splash damage is lower, still) and I'd even argue that placing Mass Driver rounds on target takes more skill than just holding down the button and vaguely facing the enemy's direction. Proposal (any number of these will work): - Nerf the damage so that it's used as a proper splash damage weapon and not a way to cop-out of the shooter game. - Remove it from the Nanohives' restock capability; you should only be able to get them from supply depots. - Increase the PG/CPU so it has the costs of a primary weapon, since it basically is at this point. (Do me a solid and don't bring up the Flux Grenade. That's for a different thread.) You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
JL3Eleven Ancient Exiles. 2383	Posted - 2015.05.01 21:08:00 - [2] - Quote Core nades are fine. It's the RE's that need fixing. Can I haz ur ISK? Do you have officer gear or rare items to sell or trade? Message me in game with details.
Jonny D Buelle Mors Effera 1240	Posted - 2015.05.01 21:13:00 - [3] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Cook for two seconds, instant or near kill. Things do way too much damage for the ability to simply cook and collect bacon over a 7.2m radius. To be clear, the effective range of this thing is larger then than of the Shotgun's optimal range. For 720 damage to armor you effectively negate the entire defense of most suits just by holding down the button for a few seconds. IMO, grenade shouldn't be the first thing you resort to when in an engagement. Softening targets is one thing but killing multiple targets outright is a little ridiculous. For such a low-skill weapon, it's power needs to be scaled down rather dramatically. It's not like placing a well-aimed PLC shot or Forge-gun round (who's splash damage is lower, still) and I'd even argue that placing Mass Driver rounds on target takes more skill than just holding down the button and vaguely facing the enemy's direction. Proposal (any number of these will work): - Nerf the damage so that it's used as a proper splash damage weapon and not a way to cop-out of the shooter game. - Remove it from the Nanohives' restock capability; you should only be able to get them from supply depots. - Increase the PG/CPU so it has the costs of a primary weapon, since it basically is at this point. (Do me a solid and don't bring up the Flux Grenade. That's for a different thread.) Let's fix the ScR first then talk about grenades. They are fine as is at the moment and yes I do use them on my sentinel fit, it helps me defend an objective when people swarm it. I find your lack of heaviness... disturbing...
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5858	Posted - 2015.05.01 21:14:00 - [4] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Cook for two seconds, instant or near kill. Things do way too much damage for the ability to simply cook and collect bacon over a 7.2m radius. To be clear, the effective range of this thing is larger then than of the Shotgun's optimal range. For 720 damage to armor you effectively negate the entire defense of most suits just by holding down the button for a few seconds. IMO, grenade shouldn't be the first thing you resort to when in an engagement. Softening targets is one thing but killing multiple targets outright is a little ridiculous. For such a low-skill weapon, it's power needs to be scaled down rather dramatically. It's not like placing a well-aimed PLC shot or Forge-gun round (who's splash damage is lower, still) and I'd even argue that placing Mass Driver rounds on target takes more skill than just holding down the button and vaguely facing the enemy's direction. Proposal (any number of these will work): - Nerf the damage so that it's used as a proper splash damage weapon and not a way to cop-out of the shooter game. - Remove it from the Nanohives' restock capability; you should only be able to get them from supply depots. - Increase the PG/CPU so it has the costs of a primary weapon, since it basically is at this point. (Do me a solid and don't bring up the Flux Grenade. That's for a different thread.) Cores were fine. Then Rattati buffed nanohives and they became abusable. Everyone saw it coming, no one said anything. Usually banned for being too awesome.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 19474	Posted - 2015.05.01 21:16:00 - [5] - Quote I think we should flatten grenade damage and cook-times and have blast radius as the meta gain. CPM 1, Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 1152	Posted - 2015.05.01 21:27:00 - [6] - Quote Very good topic. I really have a problem with the following situation: Well known vet spots you, immediately dives for cover, throws down a hive, does the whistle and hopes you stop being a problem. It's a shooter damn it. At least try and shoot people. Long story short, I agree they are a problem. How to solve it? Many ways, choose any. I'm writing a reply mostly because I want to discuss the following concept: Locus grenades should be balanced to eat about half the health of a assault suit of it's tier. The idea is that this level of damage is large enough to give grenades utility, but doesn't make them a primary means of fighting. Shooting people has to be the best way of killing people. If those people think they can hide behind a rock, choose a grenade. Most importantly this concept is independant of tier. That means two people fighting in STD gear have the same experience as two people fighting in PRO suits. That should be a major game design goal. The net result of the above paradigm is that Core Locus grenades should sit at about 500 raw damage. An advanced one at 400 and a basic one at 300. (Isn't it weird how only the Core Locus deviates from that? )
Cody Sietz Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 4512	Posted - 2015.05.01 21:33:00 - [7] - Quote JL3Eleven wrote: Core nades are fine. It's the RE's that need fixing. Na, core nades barely make a dent on a fully tanked out heavy. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 331	Posted - 2015.05.01 21:36:00 - [8] - Quote You're wrong actually. Locus damage is perfect for it being a pro grenade and for the fact that it's A GRENADE. How many times have you seen someone surface a grenade explosion? Not many. This is dust and it's the future. I pretty sure a pro grenade should be able to kill ALL SCOUTS, LOGIS, AND MOSt ASSAULTS with one nade. If anything, the m1 and standard grenade need bugging to 400 and 500 48th Special Operations Force. Twitter- @48SOF
PADDEHATPIGEN BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 194	Posted - 2015.05.01 21:39:00 - [9] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Cook for two seconds, instant or near kill. Things do way too much damage for the ability to simply cook and collect bacon over a 7.2m radius. To be clear, the effective range of this thing is larger then than of the Shotgun's optimal range. For 720 damage to armor you effectively negate the entire defense of most suits just by holding down the button for a few seconds. IMO, grenade shouldn't be the first thing you resort to when in an engagement. Softening targets is one thing but killing multiple targets outright is a little ridiculous. For such a low-skill weapon, it's power needs to be scaled down rather dramatically. It's not like placing a well-aimed PLC shot or Forge-gun round (who's splash damage is lower, still) and I'd even argue that placing Mass Driver rounds on target takes more skill than just holding down the button and vaguely facing the enemy's direction. Proposal (any number of these will work): - Nerf the damage so that it's used as a proper splash damage weapon and not a way to cop-out of the shooter game. - Remove it from the Nanohives' restock capability; you should only be able to get them from supply depots. - Increase the PG/CPU so it has the costs of a primary weapon, since it basically is at this point. (Do me a solid and don't bring up the Flux Grenade. That's for a different thread.) At least it we all can use it with equal effect, the flux on the other hand is unfair to to shield merc's, give us nades that can take 1200-1500 armor, then it's fair, or make the flux an AV only.
Banjo Robertson Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 540	Posted - 2015.05.01 21:47:00 - [10] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I think we should flatten grenade damage and cook-times and have blast radius as the meta gain. That could work, or make the splash radius the same accross all tiers and only change the damage. As the damage on the core wouldnt be so bad if it also didnt have such a huge radius. Or make damage and blast radius flat accross all tiers and only change the number of grenades you carry by tier.

JIMvc2 Consolidated Dust 986	Posted - 2015.05.01 21:51:00 - [11] - Quote Whenever I see a player he or she runs away and that **** always throws those core grenades = Cheap ***** kills = Use your dame brain. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! Die YOU SHADOW BEING IN THE DARK!!!
Sicerly Yaw Quantum times 131	Posted - 2015.05.01 21:54:00 - [12] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Cook for two seconds, instant or near kill. Things do way too much damage for the ability to simply cook and collect bacon over a 7.2m radius. To be clear, the effective range of this thing is larger then than of the Shotgun's optimal range. For 720 damage to armor you effectively negate the entire defense of most suits just by holding down the button for a few seconds. IMO, grenade shouldn't be the first thing you resort to when in an engagement. Softening targets is one thing but killing multiple targets outright is a little ridiculous. For such a low-skill weapon, it's power needs to be scaled down rather dramatically. It's not like placing a well-aimed PLC shot or Forge-gun round (who's splash damage is lower, still) and I'd even argue that placing Mass Driver rounds on target takes more skill than just holding down the button and vaguely facing the enemy's direction. Proposal (any number of these will work): - Nerf the damage so that it's used as a proper splash damage weapon and not a way to cop-out of the shooter game. - Remove it from the Nanohives' restock capability; you should only be able to get them from supply depots. - Increase the PG/CPU so it has the costs of a primary weapon, since it basically is at this point. (Do me a solid and don't bring up the Flux Grenade. That's for a different thread.) the only balance nades need is visibility and maybe price, that would fix the problem make them more expensive to abuse and more visible so they can be more easily avoided if you are paying attention
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1317	Posted - 2015.05.01 22:05:00 - [13] - Quote I think it's funny that the people who complain abut explosives are all people who get their Corp to bundle up in small corners around objectives, where nothing else can kill them. If anything manages to kill them that's not an orbital, they complain like crazy about it. Also, if you are clustered so tightly together that a hand grenade can take out 3-4 or you. You really deserved that. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens 3971	Posted - 2015.05.01 22:07:00 - [14] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: You're wrong actually. Locus damage is perfect for it being a pro grenade and for the fact that it's A GRENADE. How many times have you seen someone surface a grenade explosion? Not many. This is dust and it's the future. I pretty sure a pro grenade should be able to kill ALL SCOUTS, LOGIS, AND MOSt ASSAULTS with one nade. If anything, the m1 and standard grenade need bugging to 400 and 500 NEVER think of balancing something based on a name. "Well, it is a HEAVY Attack Vehicle so of course it is going to be so much better than an Assault Dropship!" "Of course my suit can have 1,300 HP; it IS a Sentinel!" "Of course it makes sense that my suit has 800 HP, does the same damage as Assaults, and has 4 Equipment slots; it is a Logistics." "Of course this character is supposed to be able to just win the game; it is a carry!" Your statement of "It is the future!" goes both ways too. "My Armor is also the future; why should an explosive compound be so much more devastating than force shields and armor THOUSANDS of years in the future?" It is a semantic argument at that point. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2719	Posted - 2015.05.01 22:19:00 - [15] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Cook for two seconds, instant or near kill. Things do way too much damage for the ability to simply cook and collect bacon over a 7.2m radius. To be clear, the effective range of this thing is larger then than of the Shotgun's optimal range. For 720 damage to armor you effectively negate the entire defense of most suits just by holding down the button for a few seconds. IMO, grenade shouldn't be the first thing you resort to when in an engagement. Softening targets is one thing but killing multiple targets outright is a little ridiculous. For such a low-skill weapon, it's power needs to be scaled down rather dramatically. It's not like placing a well-aimed PLC shot or Forge-gun round (who's splash damage is lower, still) and I'd even argue that placing Mass Driver rounds on target takes more skill than just holding down the button and vaguely facing the enemy's direction. Proposal (any number of these will work): - Nerf the damage so that it's used as a proper splash damage weapon and not a way to cop-out of the shooter game. - Remove it from the Nanohives' restock capability; you should only be able to get them from supply depots. - Increase the PG/CPU so it has the costs of a primary weapon, since it basically is at this point. (Do me a solid and don't bring up the Flux Grenade. That's for a different thread.) Cores were fine. Then Rattati buffed nanohives and they became abusable. Everyone saw it coming, no one said anything. Not true. This was pointed out clearly by players along with several workable fixes, more than a couple of times. PSN: RationalSpark
deezy dabest 2178	Posted - 2015.05.01 22:23:00 - [16] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Cook for two seconds, instant or near kill. Things do way too much damage for the ability to simply cook and collect bacon over a 7.2m radius. To be clear, the effective range of this thing is larger then than of the Shotgun's optimal range. For 720 damage to armor you effectively negate the entire defense of most suits just by holding down the button for a few seconds. IMO, grenade shouldn't be the first thing you resort to when in an engagement. Softening targets is one thing but killing multiple targets outright is a little ridiculous. For such a low-skill weapon, it's power needs to be scaled down rather dramatically. It's not like placing a well-aimed PLC shot or Forge-gun round (who's splash damage is lower, still) and I'd even argue that placing Mass Driver rounds on target takes more skill than just holding down the button and vaguely facing the enemy's direction. Proposal (any number of these will work): - Nerf the damage so that it's used as a proper splash damage weapon and not a way to cop-out of the shooter game. - Remove it from the Nanohives' restock capability; you should only be able to get them from supply depots. - Increase the PG/CPU so it has the costs of a primary weapon, since it basically is at this point. (Do me a solid and don't bring up the Flux Grenade. That's for a different thread.) Cores were fine. Then Rattati buffed nanohives and they became abusable. Everyone saw it coming, no one said anything. Actually a few people pointed it out directly. Here is just one such example. And a follow up to that post which gave some vague numbers that illustrated how bad it would be.
Alaika Arbosa Minmatar Republic 2503	Posted - 2015.05.01 22:41:00 - [17] - Quote Banjo Robertson wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I think we should flatten grenade damage and cook-times and have blast radius as the meta gain. That could work, or make the splash radius the same across all tiers and only change the damage. As the damage on the core wouldn't be so bad if it also didn't have such a huge radius. Or make damage and blast radius flat across all tiers and only change the number of grenades you carry by tier. IMHO, flatten blast radius and cook time and have damage be what increases. However, I find it amusing that people are complaining about grenades doing less than half the damage of REs when REs can't be thrown even half as far as grenades. Grenades are fine, buff REs. We the pc players make up a huge majority of active players. --Roman837 ^^ROFLMAO OMG I need to catch my breath now..
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9889	Posted - 2015.05.01 22:46:00 - [18] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: You're wrong actually. Locus damage is perfect for it being a pro grenade and for the fact that it's A GRENADE. How many times have you seen someone surface a grenade explosion? Not many. This is dust and it's the future. I pretty sure a pro grenade should be able to kill ALL SCOUTS, LOGIS, AND MOSt ASSAULTS with one nade. If anything, the m1 and standard grenade need bugging to 400 and 500 I'm wearing Crystalline Carbonide armor that's been grafted to my flesh and I use a weapon that can spit plasma out to 100m. You mean to tell me that 'it's the future' only works for grenades? Get real. That's a terrible reason to justify why something takes so little skill to use and does so much damage. Sicerly Yaw wrote: the only balance nades need is visibility and maybe price, that would fix the problem make them more expensive to abuse and more visible so they can be more easily avoided if you are paying attention Visibility is pointless. They're being cooked, seeing it coming before it explodes in your face isn't going to change anything. Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Cores were fine. Then Rattati buffed nanohives and they became abusable. Everyone saw it coming, no one said anything. Then making it so that they can only be restocked at a Supply Depot, like Remote Explosives, shouldn't be a problem. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Henrietta Unknown Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 1343	Posted - 2015.05.01 22:52:00 - [19] - Quote Honestly, Core Nades do need a splash reduction to rid of the Win-Button Mechanic. Right now the Core nade doesn't need to be thrown on target to OHK. And the STD/ADV nades are useless with their small range. So bring all nades in line to the same splash radius, with different damage values per tier. Selling Items Store - Code Bazaar
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 332	Posted - 2015.05.01 22:58:00 - [20] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: You're wrong actually. Locus damage is perfect for it being a pro grenade and for the fact that it's A GRENADE. How many times have you seen someone surface a grenade explosion? Not many. This is dust and it's the future. I pretty sure a pro grenade should be able to kill ALL SCOUTS, LOGIS, AND MOSt ASSAULTS with one nade. If anything, the m1 and standard grenade need bugging to 400 and 500 I'm wearing Crystalline Carbonide armor that's been grafted to my flesh and I use a weapon that can spit plasma out to 100m. You mean to tell me that 'it's the future' only works for grenades? Get real. That's a terrible reason to justify why something takes so little skill to use and does so much damage. Sicerly Yaw wrote: the only balance nades need is visibility and maybe price, that would fix the problem make them more expensive to abuse and more visible so they can be more easily avoided if you are paying attention Visibility is pointless. They're being cooked, seeing it coming before it explodes in your face isn't going to change anything. Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Cores were fine. Then Rattati buffed nanohives and they became abusable. Everyone saw it coming, no one said anything. Then making it so that they can only be restocked at a Supply Depot, like Remote Explosives, shouldn't be a problem. I once complained about op pro tanks and I will tell you what one person posted but for the pro nade. The pro nade need more skill point to use. Normally it takes like 350.000 sp to skill to pro weapons. The pro nades take 650.000. It is good just as it is. Not to mention its 14.000 ISk per nade, compared to the 600 for std NADES. 48th Special Operations Force. Twitter- @48SOF

Summa Militum TotalAscendancy 390	Posted - 2015.05.01 23:45:00 - [21] - Quote I use the core locus grenade to help me handle squads that are charging at me. I am a solo player and I find myself in the situation a lot of times where all my teammates that are around me die and I am left by myself to take on 4+ people; the core locus grenade comes in real handy in this situation.
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 1152	Posted - 2015.05.01 23:47:00 - [22] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I think we should flatten grenade damage and cook-times and have blast radius as the meta gain. You shouldn't have any say in a game when you don't play it.
Ralden Caster Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 210	Posted - 2015.05.01 23:53:00 - [23] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I think we should flatten grenade damage and cook-times and have blast radius as the meta gain. With the practice I've been getting with the M8s, that would be awesome. "I am frequently misquoted." -Aeon Amadi Welcome to my TIME MACHINE!
Thokk Nightshade Montana Militia 819	Posted - 2015.05.02 00:28:00 - [24] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: I find it amusing that people are complaining about grenades doing less than half the damage of REs when REs can't be thrown even half as far as grenades. Grenades are fine, buff REs. I really hope this is a troll post/ joke. RE's don't need ANY buff. Since I started really using them, I regularly land on the top or near the top of kills on my leaderboard in a Logi suit. I've been averaging 10-15 kills a game (that isn't a protostomp) from just the RE's alone. Throw distance doesn't matter. Use situational awareness and set traps. Use yourself as bait, let them walk to you, hit L1. Watch the +50's flood the screen. Plant them on a chokepoint, wait for the reds to start streaming through after you. Hit L1. There is absolutely no reason to buff RE's. They are supposed to be a mine, not a grenade. They should be used as such. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix RUST415 801	Posted - 2015.05.02 00:41:00 - [25] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: You're wrong actually. Locus damage is perfect for it being a pro grenade and for the fact that it's A GRENADE. How many times have you seen someone surface a grenade explosion? Not many. This is dust and it's the future. I pretty sure a pro grenade should be able to kill ALL SCOUTS, LOGIS, AND MOSt ASSAULTS with one nade. If anything, the m1 and standard grenade need bugging to 400 and 500 I'm wearing Crystalline Carbonide armor that's been grafted to my flesh and I use a weapon that can spit plasma out to 100m. You mean to tell me that 'it's the future' only works for grenades? Get real. That's a terrible reason to justify why something takes so little skill to use and does so much damage. Sicerly Yaw wrote: the only balance nades need is visibility and maybe price, that would fix the problem make them more expensive to abuse and more visible so they can be more easily avoided if you are paying attention Visibility is pointless. They're being cooked, seeing it coming before it explodes in your face isn't going to change anything. Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Cores were fine. Then Rattati buffed nanohives and they became abusable. Everyone saw it coming, no one said anything. Then making it so that they can only be restocked at a Supply Depot, like Remote Explosives, shouldn't be a problem. I once complained about op pro tanks and I will tell you what one person posted but for the pro nade. The pro nade need more skill point to use. Normally it takes like 350.000 sp to skill to pro weapons. The pro nades take 650.000. It is good just as it is. Not to mention its 14.000 ISk per nade, compared to the 600 for std NADES. Just because they cost more doent mean they should be so much better than adv and std. Yes they should be good but not to the point where the other 2 are pointless to use.
Her Chosen Grade No.2 261	Posted - 2015.05.02 00:48:00 - [26] - Quote The problem lies in explosives all together... What's the point of having all this HP if explosives can OHK it? It also has splash radius, which lessens skill. It also terminates the clone with no effort needed by the enemy. All explosives need to be nerfed. Less damage, and smaller blast radius. And perhaps allowing splash kills to be revived. LATEST UPLOAD
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9897	Posted - 2015.05.02 00:50:00 - [27] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: You're wrong actually. Locus damage is perfect for it being a pro grenade and for the fact that it's A GRENADE. How many times have you seen someone surface a grenade explosion? Not many. This is dust and it's the future. I pretty sure a pro grenade should be able to kill ALL SCOUTS, LOGIS, AND MOSt ASSAULTS with one nade. If anything, the m1 and standard grenade need bugging to 400 and 500 I'm wearing Crystalline Carbonide armor that's been grafted to my flesh and I use a weapon that can spit plasma out to 100m. You mean to tell me that 'it's the future' only works for grenades? Get real. That's a terrible reason to justify why something takes so little skill to use and does so much damage. Sicerly Yaw wrote: the only balance nades need is visibility and maybe price, that would fix the problem make them more expensive to abuse and more visible so they can be more easily avoided if you are paying attention Visibility is pointless. They're being cooked, seeing it coming before it explodes in your face isn't going to change anything. Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Cores were fine. Then Rattati buffed nanohives and they became abusable. Everyone saw it coming, no one said anything. Then making it so that they can only be restocked at a Supply Depot, like Remote Explosives, shouldn't be a problem. I once complained about op pro tanks and I will tell you what one person posted but for the pro nade. The pro nade need more skill point to use. Normally it takes like 350.000 sp to skill to pro weapons. The pro nades take 650.000. It is good just as it is. Not to mention its 14.000 ISk per nade, compared to the 600 for std NADES. ISK and SP has never, and will never, be a good balancing mechanic. Buddy of mine has 8,000,000,000 ISK in game -right now-, you think he's at all concerned about a 14,000 ISK price tag? And SP is just as bad of a justification because once you have the skill unlocked, there's nothing stopping you from just spamming them as much as you want. A prototype weapon, by itself, is not inherently 'good'. It requires a half-decent brain for accuracy and some skill to use, not to mention having a fit that will outlast your opponent. Grenades? Pull the pin, cook, and forget. You can run a standard suit with nanohives and Core Locus Grenades and you will be on par with any veteran in Proto gear just because of how powerful the grenades are. The same cannot be said for running a standard suit with a Prototype weapon. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix RUST415 801	Posted - 2015.05.02 00:59:00 - [28] - Quote Get him to send some of that isk my way Aeon
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 1156	Posted - 2015.05.02 01:17:00 - [29] - Quote I've said it before: Locus should be nerfed slightly, and used as the 'General purpose' grenade. Also, there should be added an incendiary grenade that annihilates armor but is not very effective against shields. Opposite of a Flux. Bam, grenades balanced Who cares what some sniper has to say. **--CCP, let's push for the license of Dust/Legion on both current Gen consoles-
LUGMOS Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 3841	Posted - 2015.05.02 02:00:00 - [30] - Quote Problem? It doesn't matter if the grenade goes off at your face or at the end of the 7.5 meter radius, you're dead either way. Isn't there a way to rudimentarily program something like rings with independent damage stats? Have three rings that do different damages at the very least. Sniper Rifles are for Nitrogenous Dioxide Borons First to PM me with common name wins (no Hyansaru, u win too much ;P)

LUGMOS Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 3841	Posted - 2015.05.02 02:03:00 - [31] - Quote Her Chosen wrote: All explosives need to be nerfed Correction: Core locus and remote explosive. Have you ever tried using a standard locus effectively? What about a mass driver? They really don't hit very hard and have terrible RoF. Sniper Rifles are for Nitrogenous Dioxide Borons First to PM me with common name wins (no Hyansaru, u win too much ;P)

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 21660	Posted - 2015.05.02 02:07:00 - [32] - Quote I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

One Eyed King Nos Nothi 9905	Posted - 2015.05.02 02:08:00 - [33] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. Prefer throw distance reduction to other RE changes. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8338	Posted - 2015.05.02 02:22:00 - [34] - Quote And the crybabying about grenades that has been going since beta continues apace I see. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1972	Posted - 2015.05.02 02:34:00 - [35] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Cook for two seconds, instant or near kill. Things do way too much damage for the ability to simply cook and collect bacon over a 7.2m radius. To be clear, the effective range of this thing is larger then than of the Shotgun's optimal range. For 720 damage to armor you effectively negate the entire defense of most suits just by holding down the button for a few seconds. IMO, grenade shouldn't be the first thing you resort to when in an engagement. Softening targets is one thing but killing multiple targets outright is a little ridiculous. For such a low-skill weapon, it's power needs to be scaled down rather dramatically. It's not like placing a well-aimed PLC shot or Forge-gun round (who's splash damage is lower, still) and I'd even argue that placing Mass Driver rounds on target takes more skill than just holding down the button and vaguely facing the enemy's direction. Proposal (any number of these will work): - Nerf the damage so that it's used as a proper splash damage weapon and not a way to cop-out of the shooter game. - Remove it from the Nanohives' restock capability; you should only be able to get them from supply depots. - Increase the PG/CPU so it has the costs of a primary weapon, since it basically is at this point. (Do me a solid and don't bring up the Flux Grenade. That's for a different thread.) Cooked nades are powerful, yes, maybe too powerful. But it is dead wrong to say they are a low skill weapon. Saying that means that the saying person is distorting the facts to their cause. Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1972	Posted - 2015.05.02 02:37:00 - [36] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Cook for two seconds, instant or near kill. Things do way too much damage for the ability to simply cook and collect bacon over a 7.2m radius. To be clear, the effective range of this thing is larger then than of the Shotgun's optimal range. For 720 damage to armor you effectively negate the entire defense of most suits just by holding down the button for a few seconds. IMO, grenade shouldn't be the first thing you resort to when in an engagement. Softening targets is one thing but killing multiple targets outright is a little ridiculous. For such a low-skill weapon, it's power needs to be scaled down rather dramatically. It's not like placing a well-aimed PLC shot or Forge-gun round (who's splash damage is lower, still) and I'd even argue that placing Mass Driver rounds on target takes more skill than just holding down the button and vaguely facing the enemy's direction. Proposal (any number of these will work): - Nerf the damage so that it's used as a proper splash damage weapon and not a way to cop-out of the shooter game. - Remove it from the Nanohives' restock capability; you should only be able to get them from supply depots. - Increase the PG/CPU so it has the costs of a primary weapon, since it basically is at this point. (Do me a solid and don't bring up the Flux Grenade. That's for a different thread.) Cores were fine. Then Rattati buffed nanohives and they became abusable. Everyone saw it coming, no one said anything. I beg your pardon...?!?!? Some stuff said: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2661722#post2661722 Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
Forced Death Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 755	Posted - 2015.05.02 02:42:00 - [37] - Quote I'm sitting here waiting for my SP to collect to earn advanced locus nades. These 300 damage ones are sh1te compared to cores STD Active Scanner with Scan Profile of 46db too OP
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1972	Posted - 2015.05.02 02:46:00 - [38] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: I once complained about op pro tanks and I will tell you what one person posted but for the pro nade. The pro nade need more skill point to use. Normally it takes like 350.000 sp to skill to pro weapons. The pro nades take 650.000. It is good just as it is. Not to mention its 14.000 ISk per nade, compared to the 600 for std NADES. Just because they cost more doent mean they should be so much better than adv and std. Yes they should be good but not to the point where the other 2 are pointless to use. ^ THIS is the very essence of good game design! Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1973	Posted - 2015.05.02 02:52:00 - [39] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. I disagree on some of those points =P Nades haven't been UP pretty much never. They should be powerful, no changes required except some sort of tiericide or rather tiertunedown. The original poster is correct that cooked nades are very very good and able to OHK many suits - according to my experience nades do have headshot ability even though there's no message. How else 720+ HP suit could be OHK'd?? Different topic but I gotta mention as early as possible: REs do not need throw distance nerf, they need activation timer nerf (or rather to make sure the announced 5+ s timer would work as listed on the fall of 2014) Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
Knightshade Belladonna Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 1280	Posted - 2015.05.02 02:56:00 - [40] - Quote I know the proto has more blast radius... but here is what confuses me. Why can I throw any other grenade , within what looks like well within blast radius and it don't do jack unless they stepping on it. I throw a locus blindly , and that thing kills anytyhing in viewing distance lol. I'd use the hell out of them on every suit if it wasn't for the high cost compared to the m-1s..which leads me to believe they know it's OP as hell, and trying to keep it out of some hands. /shrug

Knightshade Belladonna Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 1282	Posted - 2015.05.02 03:01:00 - [41] - Quote Her Chosen wrote: The problem lies in explosives all together... What's the point of having all this HP if explosives can OHK it? It also has splash radius, which lessens skill. It also terminates the clone with no effort needed by the enemy. All explosives need to be nerfed. Less damage, and smaller blast radius. And perhaps allowing splash kills to be revived. splash kill revival would be nice , agreed
Diablo Gamekeeper Escrow Removal and Acquisition 189	Posted - 2015.05.02 03:24:00 - [42] - Quote you know, core nade spam wasn't ever really a problem for me. It will be over soon, and when the Dust settles, no one will be left playing.
Archduke Ferd1nand Nos Nothi 408	Posted - 2015.05.02 03:54:00 - [43] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. Dont nerf me bro BRB, looking for socks PSN: tommygunboy2080 I shit shotgun shells and piss Remote Explosives
DUST Fiend 16830	Posted - 2015.05.02 03:56:00 - [44] - Quote I doubt they'd ever nerf the crutch. Some people want them, some people need them, some people avoid them like the plague. Is what it is. *"My bitter is showing. I must retreat to the berry patch."* STUFF
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5862	Posted - 2015.05.02 03:57:00 - [45] - Quote Some people complained about nades? Didn't complain loud enough then. All I heard was whine whine vehicles whine whine heavies whine whine scouts whine whine SCR. Usually banned for being too awesome.
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 645	Posted - 2015.05.02 05:00:00 - [46] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Cook for two seconds, instant or near kill. Things do way too much damage for the ability to simply cook and collect bacon over a 7.2m radius. To be clear, the effective range of this thing is larger then than of the Shotgun's optimal range. For 720 damage to armor you effectively negate the entire defense of most suits just by holding down the button for a few seconds. IMO, grenade shouldn't be the first thing you resort to when in an engagement. Softening targets is one thing but killing multiple targets outright is a little ridiculous. For such a low-skill weapon, it's power needs to be scaled down rather dramatically. It's not like placing a well-aimed PLC shot or Forge-gun round (who's splash damage is lower, still) and I'd even argue that placing Mass Driver rounds on target takes more skill than just holding down the button and vaguely facing the enemy's direction. Proposal (any number of these will work): - Nerf the damage so that it's used as a proper splash damage weapon and not a way to cop-out of the shooter game. - Remove it from the Nanohives' restock capability; you should only be able to get them from supply depots. - Increase the PG/CPU so it has the costs of a primary weapon, since it basically is at this point. (Do me a solid and don't bring up the Flux Grenade. That's for a different thread.) Grenades require a sacrifice of time, and take timing to pull off correctly, in addition the enemy can hear you pull the pin, which allows them to run into your face or run for cover, both of which can end up costing you a grenade. Characterizing them as a no skill weapon is not really helpful, especially since they easily take more skill than any weapon in dust aside from maybe long range mass driver kills. I would maybe agree with your second and third suggestions though, as it is very easy to have games that entirely revolve around remote/core grenade spam to steamroll your team (hi ambush explosive steamroller squads!)
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 645	Posted - 2015.05.02 05:10:00 - [47] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Banjo Robertson wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I think we should flatten grenade damage and cook-times and have blast radius as the meta gain. That could work, or make the splash radius the same across all tiers and only change the damage. As the damage on the core wouldn't be so bad if it also didn't have such a huge radius. Or make damage and blast radius flat across all tiers and only change the number of grenades you carry by tier. IMHO, flatten blast radius and cook time and have damage be what increases. However, I find it amusing that people are complaining about grenades doing less than half the damage of REs when REs can't be thrown even half as far as grenades. Grenades are fine, buff REs. And you cant have grenades sit in a doorway until someone comes along, and choose the exact moment to set them off.
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 309	Posted - 2015.05.02 05:30:00 - [48] - Quote JL3Eleven wrote: Core nades are fine. It's the RE's that need fixing. Perhaps, GASP they BOTH need a look at. Ebola makes me feel all warm and squishy inside.
Kuruld Sengar Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 322	Posted - 2015.05.02 05:31:00 - [49] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: JL3Eleven wrote: Core nades are fine. It's the RE's that need fixing. Na, core nades barely make a dent on a fully tanked out heavy. Everyone run heavies is not a solution. Core nades are ridiculous at the moment. Prototype suits can be killed instantly as medium and light, while medium can survive if tanked over 1k hp. Barely. They wouldn't be too bad but I have sen them do damage in the 900 range, which far exceeds the 600 advertised. No weapon that is that spammable should be able to instantly kill. Especially since nanohives seem to be on most suits nowadays.
Seed Dren Helix Order Learning Alliance 190	Posted - 2015.05.02 05:34:00 - [50] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Some people complained about nades? Didn't complain loud enough then. All I heard was whine whine vehicles whine whine heavies whine whine scouts whine whine SCR. For somebody that complains that people cannot have smart conversations, that sure didn't sound like a very smart argument. Amarr assualt + shotgun + hellfire= illuminati confirmed

Demandred Moores Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 53	Posted - 2015.05.02 08:25:00 - [51] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. I disagree on some of those points =P Nades haven't been UP pretty much never. They should be powerful, no changes required except some sort of tiericide or rather tiertunedown. The original poster is correct that cooked nades are very very good and able to OHK many suits - according to my experience nades do have headshot ability even though there's no message. How else 720+ HP suit could be OHK'd?? Different topic but I gotta mention as early as possible: REs do not need throw distance nerf, they need activation timer nerf (or rather to make sure the announced 5+ s timer would work as listed on the fall of 2014) They don't have a head shot bonus or it would always kill you cause of the blast radius lol. They do more to armour less to shields what you are seeing is the armour tanked suit getting nuked because he wasn't aware of the situation.this is a prime example of how ppl that don't understand the game come on the forums and try to complain while the vast majority enjoy the game and remain silent. Why should a flux take all of a calidari's shield and leave him with effectively no hp and a core not do massive armour damage? Run more shields it will eat so much of the grenades damage you would be surprised. They are not op you just haven't adapted to a play style you don't like. Basic flux is more op than a core. And don't tell me they don't kill so they aren't I run almost every suit at proto and max vehicles. Flux might as well kill a calidari and doubles as an AV weapon. Try to core spam me and see how op you are my friend. I will melt you.
JAKE REDBLOOD Dead Man's Game RUST415 67	Posted - 2015.05.02 08:37:00 - [52] - Quote I don't think there's any problem with the core locus grenades... After all... they are grenades! My YouTube Channel
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game RUST415 576	Posted - 2015.05.02 08:50:00 - [53] - Quote JAKE REDBLOOD wrote: I don't think there's any problem with the core locus grenades... After all... they are grenades! Exactly. In about every single fps, grenades can OS your enemies. In dust, the std and adv cant kill even a militia suit, only the proto one is effective. And it doesn't one shot everything still! (A heavy will just laugh at nades). I dont know how can people complain about that. I see close to nobody killing people with nades in battle (I'm usually the only one), and it does take skill to master the cook mechanic and to throw them right. The few people I see throwing locus grenades are so predictable, it's ridiculous. Everyone's using flux and AV because they think locus sucks, and you want to nerf them? If anything, locus grenades need a buff more than a nerf. Dont run a scout or a light assault into a grenade explosion, it will help. Fix the game before trying to add anything else. (Hint: hit detection, lags, glitches,.. you've got some work :) )
Demandred Moores Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 55	Posted - 2015.05.02 08:58:00 - [54] - Quote Sequal's Back wrote: JAKE REDBLOOD wrote: I don't think there's any problem with the core locus grenades... After all... they are grenades! Exactly. In about every single fps, grenades can OS your enemies. In dust, the std and adv cant kill even a militia suit, only the proto one is effective. And it doesn't one shot everything still! (A heavy will just laugh at nades). I dont know how can people complain about that. I see close to nobody killing people with nades in battle (I'm usually the only one), and it does take skill to master the cook mechanic and to throw them right. The few people I see throwing locus grenades are so predictable, it's ridiculous. Everyone's using flux and AV because they think locus sucks, and you want to nerf them? If anything, locus grenades need a buff more than a nerf. Dont run a scout or a light assault into a grenade explosion, it will help. Cores are fine the others are a bit underpowered MAYBE and heavies shrugging then off is part of their bonus but it is a nice way to stay that fight the insurance alpha damage is still very helpful against their massive alpha and sustained dps.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8340	Posted - 2015.05.02 09:41:00 - [55] - Quote The state of hrenades is pathetic and useless. The cries of no skill are a mating call for those lacking situational awareness. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 4548	Posted - 2015.05.02 09:45:00 - [56] - Quote Maybe core locuse one shot, but STD locus are completely trash, M1 are in a good spot more or less. STD locus need some love, core locus are the crutch of the so called pro players, but i don't think they are a real problem. Shaman's Shack - A place to trade
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8340	Posted - 2015.05.02 09:49:00 - [57] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Maybe core locuse one shot, but STD locus are completely trash, M1 are in a good spot more or less. STD locus need some love, core locus are the crutch of the so called pro players, but i don't think they are a real problem. Considering to cook them properly you have to make yourself vulnerable to incoming fire for two seconds? That's about 0.7 seconds longer than it takes to get killed with a rifle. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9908	Posted - 2015.05.02 10:10:00 - [58] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. I disagree on some of those points =P Nades haven't been UP pretty much never. They should be powerful, no changes required except some sort of tiericide or rather tiertunedown. The original poster is correct that cooked nades are very very good and able to OHK many suits - according to my experience nades do have headshot ability even though there's no message. How else 720+ HP suit could be OHK'd?? Different topic but I gotta mention as early as possible: REs do not need throw distance nerf, they need activation timer nerf (or rather to make sure the announced 5+ s timer would work as listed on the fall of 2014) I've noticed that as well. CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. Lemme try and test out what Korsiini-tero is referring to before we set anything in stone. I want to see if I can maybe narrow down a bug or something - or maybe headshot damage is intentional and is just way too easy to pull off. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9908	Posted - 2015.05.02 10:12:00 - [59] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The state of hrenades is pathetic and useless. The cries of no skill are a mating call for those lacking situational awareness. You strafe, hold down a button for two seconds, get an instant kill. I have to hold target for the duration of those two seconds, and hope that hit detection is favorable enough for me to put enough rounds on target that you die before you throw the grenade (which will likely happen anyway as you fall to the ground, dead). You say it's a mating call for those lacking situational awareness? I say it's too easy of a gimmick kill that requires less skill than it takes to stay on target for the duration. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
noob cavman Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 2403	Posted - 2015.05.02 10:14:00 - [60] - Quote Cooked cores are the ultimate way to deal with jumpers I want to be a caveman! psn: marko_blues Gö+GöüGö+ n+¦pâ+(`-ö´)n+ën+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Full steam ahead into the enemies booty yarrr.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8341	Posted - 2015.05.02 10:23:00 - [61] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: The state of hrenades is pathetic and useless. The cries of no skill are a mating call for those lacking situational awareness. You strafe, hold down a button for two seconds, get an instant kill. I have to hold target for the duration of those two seconds, and hope that hit detection is favorable enough for me to put enough rounds on target that you die before you throw the grenade (which will likely happen anyway as you fall to the ground, dead). You say it's a mating call for those lacking situational awareness? I say it's too easy of a gimmick kill that requires less skill than it takes to stay on target for the duration. Ive been killed twice with a core in the last 15 hours of play. They aren't nearly pervasive enough to be a problem, and I find them incredibly easy to dodge away from. Quite bluntly they should be lethal as hell. The whining that ensues whenever nades can land a kill is nothing short of pathetic. And did it ever occur to you that most suits can throw them back? OMG IT KILLED ME NERF IT. Usually your premises for posting are on much more solid foundation. A grenade is a weapon. If the weapon is ineffective at killing it is a useless weapon. If it is a useless weapon it has no place in the loadout. Grenades are so pathetic in combat that I don't bother putting more than militia grenade BPOs on my suit. Even then it's more habit than intent because they are mostly ineffective. Thee crying that comes up whenever a weapon is made capable of killing people gets old. This grwnade has been as is for over a year now. How has it magmagically become an issue just now? There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5495	Posted - 2015.05.02 11:03:00 - [62] - Quote Decrease damage, increase blast radius. That's how I'd do it 7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
Dead Cavino RestlessSpirits 50	Posted - 2015.05.02 11:12:00 - [63] - Quote Whatever you do, please don't touch my M8 packed locus. I don't like two-legged things.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 1156	Posted - 2015.05.02 11:31:00 - [64] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. This doesn't have to be an open forum discussion, but do you have a concept on how grenades are supposed to be used? Right now it works like this: - Standard locus grenades should never be used. - Advanced locus grenades can be used to stop somebody from going somewhere or forcing people out of cover. - Prototype locus grenades are as good at killing stuff as your primary weapon. Choose based on range. I very much dislike that the mechanic changes based on the tier. If you're new to the game you will quickly learn that locus grenades are mostly useless compared to your primary weapon. As you progress grenades become ever more important. Eventually lobbing core grenades at stuff is as important as shooting stuff. If the design direction is "Locus grenades OHK single enemies" then we can find numbers for that. If the design direction is "Locus grenades deal minor damage to many enemies" we can find number for that. Etc. Etc. This discussion is unlikely to find a solution as long as everyone projects a different design philosophy into the locus grenades. I have a preference (see last post) but we can make any design work - once we are settled on a certain design.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8343	Posted - 2015.05.02 11:47:00 - [65] - Quote Locus nades used to be the equalizer against protostompers. They allowed players, both new and old to level the playing field against more inherently powerful opponents. Again, this was for some reason deemed unfair. Because protostompers should only be killed by proto suits and guns, right? That removal of any sort of risk in hammering new players has resulted in some of the most horrific early NPE experiences in gaming. I've run the battle academy to get alts into the shark tank and let them generate passive SP because there is no equalizer anymore. The difference between running a fight on this character and running a new alt is the difference between night and day. When I first started and was facing stomp squads, the locus grenades allowed me to fight and win against overconfident "gun game" enthusiasts who seem to believe that rifle strafe duaduels within 20m are the definition of skill. And grenades, being as neutered and largely useless as they are, don't even provide a rwliable deterrent against strafing scouts. I can dodge grenades and escape the blast radius effectively in a triple-plated amarr sentinel. The assertion that grenades are a problem in any context other than being lalargely underpowered is laughable and dishonest. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Stormblade Green KnightKiller's inc. 74	Posted - 2015.05.02 11:54:00 - [66] - Quote JL3Eleven wrote: Core nades are fine. It's the RE's that need fixing. Looked at this and laughed.....Core kills me more in one on one engagements than the bloody rifle the fools are carrying. Every time they get to half shields the pop behind cover to cook the thing. REs have a chance for you to avoid unlike the Cores..... One might say... I'm very skilled... yet I'm his apprentice... So what does that say about my mentor?
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9911	Posted - 2015.05.02 16:49:00 - [67] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: The state of hrenades is pathetic and useless. The cries of no skill are a mating call for those lacking situational awareness. You strafe, hold down a button for two seconds, get an instant kill. I have to hold target for the duration of those two seconds, and hope that hit detection is favorable enough for me to put enough rounds on target that you die before you throw the grenade (which will likely happen anyway as you fall to the ground, dead). You say it's a mating call for those lacking situational awareness? I say it's too easy of a gimmick kill that requires less skill than it takes to stay on target for the duration. Ive been killed twice with a core in the last 15 hours of play. They aren't nearly pervasive enough to be a problem, and I find them incredibly easy to dodge away from. Quite bluntly they should be lethal as hell. The whining that ensues whenever nades can land a kill is nothing short of pathetic. And did it ever occur to you that most suits can throw them back? OMG IT KILLED ME NERF IT. Usually your premises for posting are on much more solid foundation. A grenade is a weapon. If the weapon is ineffective at killing it is a useless weapon. If it is a useless weapon it has no place in the loadout. Grenades are so pathetic in combat that I don't bother putting more than militia grenade BPOs on my suit. Even then it's more habit than intent because they are mostly ineffective. Thee crying that comes up whenever a weapon is made capable of killing people gets old. This grwnade has been as is for over a year now. How has it magmagically become an issue just now? Do you have anything of value to say other than "people who disagree are just crying and it's laughable"? I mean, for real, you come off as a -major- douchebag. Stefan Stahl wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. This doesn't have to be an open forum discussion, but do you have a concept on how grenades are supposed to be used? Right now it works like this: - Standard locus grenades should never be used. - Advanced locus grenades can be used to stop somebody from going somewhere or forcing people out of cover. - Prototype locus grenades are as good at killing stuff as your primary weapon. Choose based on range. I very much dislike that the mechanic changes based on the tier. If you're new to the game you will quickly learn that locus grenades are mostly useless compared to your primary weapon. As you progress grenades become ever more important. Eventually lobbing core grenades at stuff is as important as shooting stuff. If the design direction is "Locus grenades OHK single enemies" then we can find numbers for that. If the design direction is "Locus grenades deal minor damage to many enemies" we can find number for that. Etc. Etc. This discussion is unlikely to find a solution as long as everyone projects a different design philosophy into the locus grenades. I have a preference (see last post) but we can make any design work - once we are settled on a certain design. Pretty much this. I'm of the volition that grenades, as a high-radius splash damage weapon, should do minor damage to many enemies. There's no reason they should do as much damage as they do and still have a higher splash radius than a Mass Driver. In fact, the Core Locus Grenade's splash radius is only ever beaten by the Assault Mass Driver with Mass Driver Operation 5. That's a little ridiculous considering the disparity in use and damage values. And I can't help but shake my head at the people who say that dodging grenades is easy... You can't dodge a cooked grenade, I don't care how good you think you are. EDIT: I'd be totally chill with the core locus grenade being as it is if it were on a dedicated role like a Grenadier or something but being as anyone and their mother can use it as proficiently as any primary weapon, it's just a cheap gimmick mechanic that takes place of the shooter game. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8349	Posted - 2015.05.02 17:32:00 - [68] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: it's just a cheap gimmick mechanic that takes place of the shooter game. this implies that it's the only valid way to play, which it isn't. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9913	Posted - 2015.05.02 17:48:00 - [69] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: it's just a cheap gimmick mechanic that takes place of the shooter game. this implies that it's the only valid way to play, which it isn't. Oh yeah? What else do you do with grenades? You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5867	Posted - 2015.05.02 17:49:00 - [70] - Quote Seed Dren wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Some people complained about nades? Didn't complain loud enough then. All I heard was whine whine vehicles whine whine heavies whine whine scouts whine whine SCR. For somebody that complains that people cannot have smart conversations, that sure didn't sound like a very smart argument. It wasn't meant to be an argument against anything. I fully recognize Core spam is out of control, therefore I am in agreement. If I'm arguing anything at all, it's that you didn't make a very loud noise about it being an issue back when it was originally being screwed up. And you didn't. Every single day you would see the previously mentioned "issues" get a topic or two of their own. Such was not the case with the nanohive buffs. So, here you are. Rattati may ask that feedback be kept in a single thread for convenience purposes, but I would hope it's fairly apparent to you now that doesn't actually get results. Usually banned for being too awesome.

Twelve Guage Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 549	Posted - 2015.05.02 18:05:00 - [71] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Problem? It doesn't matter if the grenade goes off at your face or at the end of the 7.5 meter radius, you're dead either way. Isn't there a way to rudimentarily program something like rings with independent damage stats? Have three rings that do different damages at the very least. They kinda of did this for the Massdriver so I can't really see why they can't do this for grenades. Sandwich maker LVL. 5 You've been like by Twelve Gauge = her grabbing your @$$. My like button is back. C:<
Dreis ShadowWeaver 0uter.Heaven Back and Forth 3375	Posted - 2015.05.02 18:31:00 - [72] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I think we should flatten grenade damage and cook-times and have blast radius as the meta gain. That' a good idea; it might make non-Proto grenades actually usable. Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel My Minja Blog Day 16/30 exclusively Minja
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 178	Posted - 2015.05.02 19:24:00 - [73] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. Don't forget that there timers bugged as well. It's still 2.5 seconds as opposed to 5 seconds. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 645	Posted - 2015.05.02 19:32:00 - [74] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. This doesn't have to be an open forum discussion, but do you have a concept on how grenades are supposed to be used? Right now it works like this: - Standard locus grenades should never be used. - Advanced locus grenades can be used to stop somebody from going somewhere or forcing people out of cover. - Prototype locus grenades are as good at killing stuff as your primary weapon. Choose based on range. I very much dislike that the mechanic changes based on the tier. If you're new to the game you will quickly learn that locus grenades are mostly useless compared to your primary weapon. As you progress grenades become ever more important. Eventually lobbing core grenades at stuff is as important as shooting stuff. If the design direction is "Locus grenades OHK single enemies" then we can find numbers for that. If the design direction is "Locus grenades deal minor damage to many enemies" we can find number for that. Etc. Etc. This discussion is unlikely to find a solution as long as everyone projects a different design philosophy into the locus grenades. I have a preference (see last post) but we can make any design work - once we are settled on a certain design. I agree with this, when I was new to this game I had alot of trouble making grenades work, so I just ignored them for a year or two. I was terrible with grenades for a long time, just because I never bothered using them, I would slot in AV to make vehicles run away or flux just to toss on uplinks, never use normal grenades because they sucked. Eventually I got to the point where I had so many skill points I just went ahead and skilled up grenades, tried out the core grenade, and said to myself OH, WOW, so this is why people use these. The STD level grenades really are absolutely terrible.
Demandred Moores Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 55	Posted - 2015.05.02 21:01:00 - [75] - Quote Saying that a grenade should deal low damage to multiple enemies is ridiculous, it is a high explosive ordinance and does it's job. Make sure ppl run scans and be aware of your situation. If I can hit 6 guys with a weapon that does little damage it is of little use. See post on previous page for more details on my opinion of nades.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1975	Posted - 2015.05.02 21:29:00 - [76] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: The original poster is correct that cooked nades are very very good and able to OHK many suits - according to my experience nades do have headshot ability even though there's no message. How else 720+ HP suit could be OHK'd?? Different topic but I gotta mention as early as possible: REs do not need throw distance nerf, they need activation timer nerf (or rather to make sure the announced 5+ s timer would work as listed on the fall of 2014) They don't have a head shot bonus or it would always kill you cause of the blast radius lol. They do more to armour less to shields what you are seeing is the armour tanked suit getting nuked because he wasn't aware of the situation.this is a prime example of how ppl that don't understand the game come on the forums and try to complain while the vast majority enjoy the game and remain silent. Why should a flux take all of a calidari's shield and leave him with effectively no hp and a core not do massive armour damage? Run more shields it will eat so much of the grenades damage you would be surprised. They are not op you just haven't adapted to a play style you don't like. Basic flux is more op than a core. And don't tell me they don't kill so they aren't I run almost every suit at proto and max vehicles. Flux might as well kill a calidari and doubles as an AV weapon. Try to core spam me and see how op you are my friend. I will melt you. No understanding of game mechanics? Challenge accepted. No game has explosive radius calculated in infinite detail. It is always A) more or less calculated through limited number of radial lines. because of that, ground explosions hits with less lines the top area, where the headshot are. B) 'simple' 3D trigonometrical distance line calculated between two tracked objects. Then again, ground level line is unlikely to touch the headshot area. In both cases, airbursts are more likely to hit head. If there is a method C) please go ahead and enlighten us. I am not saying I - or anyone else non-dev - have the real knowledge of the code within Dust. There is a possibility for other explanations for the damage above the listed. Damage profile is a very good candidate - but shield tanked suits can be instagibd with cores. I am not saying Core Locus Nades are OP. I am saying they are very very good. I am saying the nanohive #-buff increased the usage of nades. Good nade use is powerful yet skill intensive. personally majority of my Four-ish kdr is from nades (after the AA implementation of 2013). PS: Flux is inadequate for AV. As an experienced shield HAV operator, fluxes are laughable as their effect diminishes with range: it is just "bonk" and then one third of the fluxes listed damage. Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
Dreis ShadowWeaver 0uter.Heaven Back and Forth 3378	Posted - 2015.05.02 22:45:00 - [77] - Quote I don't understand why people are saying that Core Locus Grenades are being used as primaries. Aside from the fact that only two are carried at a time (dropping a Nanohive means you're confined to one place, which, while this may be useful if you're being closed in on, is not really viable if you're out in the open), I seldom see grenades in the Killfeed, and the last time I was killed by a grenade was at least a week ago. I'd also like to point out that I have NEVER seen a grenade being used as described above, where someone strafes and throws it at your feet, except maybe in a YT video ONCE. I think that grenades should be used to deal high damage over a respectable radius. They SHOULD be able to kill most things that are hiding in corners or enclosed spaces, like Null Cannon pockets. Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel My Minja Blog Day 16/30 exclusively Minja
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5171	Posted - 2015.05.02 22:59:00 - [78] - Quote I've brought this up many times and i'll say it here again. Locus nades just need 2 types...sleek and packed. The core gives you enough of the best of both worlds that it ends up being a little 2 easy to deliver that level of damage. You need to change locus nades so that at basic, advanced and proto there is a packed variant with low radius but high damage and the sleek version which would have low damage (look at the sleek and scale it) but have a large radius. And long before you fix this you need to fix RE's. RE's as a much larger 'copout' than locus do to the MASSIVE dps increase and it takes a comparable amount of time to arm to the grenade's 'cook' Furthermore you get 2 nades...but up to 4 carried RE's. If you disagree with the logic feel free to rebuttal. Founder & CEO of Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Email: Zatara.Forever@gmail official pawn of ArkenaKirkMerc
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9916	Posted - 2015.05.02 23:04:00 - [79] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: Saying that a grenade should deal low damage to multiple enemies is ridiculous, it is a high explosive ordinance and does it's job. Make sure ppl run scans and be aware of your situation. If I can hit 6 guys with a weapon that does little damage it is of little use. See post on previous page for more details on my opinion of nades. At what point does your interpretation of a high explosive ordinance begin to infringe on my interpretation of science fiction power armor... Neither are incorrect, but belittling my opinion by saying that "it's ridiculous" is just asking for a pointless argument of preferential bias. Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote: I don't understand why people are saying that Core Locus Grenades are being used as primaries. Aside from the fact that only two are carried at a time (dropping a Nanohive means you're confined to one place, which, while this may be useful if you're being closed in on, is not really viable if you're out in the open), I seldom see grenades in the Killfeed, and the last time I was killed by a grenade was at least a week ago. I'd also like to point out that I have NEVER seen a grenade being used as described above, where someone strafes and throws it at your feet, except maybe in a YT video ONCE. I think that grenades should be used to deal high damage over a respectable radius. They SHOULD be able to kill most things that are hiding in corners or enclosed spaces, like Null Cannon pockets. X-3 Nanohives are my preferred solution. Can carry six of them as a standard and they give you ammo faster, so you're not so much 'limited to one space' as much as constantly regaining grenades for the duration that you're cooking them. I'll make you a video later. I'm guilty of using Core Locus Grenades as an opening staple and I might just have to get some video evidence to show everyone how stupidly OP these things can be in normal battles. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9916	Posted - 2015.05.02 23:06:00 - [80] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: I've brought this up many times and i'll say it here again. Locus nades just need 2 types...sleek and packed. The core gives you enough of the best of both worlds that it ends up being a little 2 easy to deliver that level of damage. You need to change locus nades so that at basic, advanced and proto there is a packed variant with low radius but high damage and the sleek version which would have low damage (look at the sleek and scale it) but have a large radius. And long before you fix this you need to fix RE's. RE's as a much larger 'copout' than locus do to the MASSIVE dps increase and it takes a comparable amount of time to arm to the grenade's 'cook' Furthermore you get 2 nades...but up to 4 carried RE's. That'd be fine, but 600 damage over 7.2m is just insane for something that can be replenished by nanohives. I'd even argue that they're more so a problem because of the ability to replenish them with nanohives whereas the Remote Explosives cannot be replenished, save for respawning or going to a supply depot. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go

Shepherd Grey Capital Acquisitions LLC 488	Posted - 2015.05.02 23:12:00 - [81] - Quote No need to read, nerfing nades is simply ridiculous. The act of cooking makes you completely vulnerable, you only carry 2 nades at a time anyway, cooking/tossing takes aLOT more skill than RE's which do significantly more damage across a wider radius and can be detonated at will. Nades are an assault's only equalizer against an HMG that has an effective range of 40m or more with twice as much eHP. Gives assaults a fighting chance against 11m/s scouts and min assault SG's that can 1 shot you. Could go on and on. It is an EXPLOSIVE. Name one other FPS where nades ARE NOT 1 hitters? At least in Dust you might live.
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9916	Posted - 2015.05.02 23:14:00 - [82] - Quote Shepherd Grey wrote: No need to read, nerfing nades is simply ridiculous. The act of cooking makes you completely vulnerable, you only carry 2 nades at a time anyway, cooking/tossing takes aLOT more skill than RE's which do significantly more damage across a wider radius and can be detonated at will. Nades are an assault's only equalizer against an HMG that has an effective range of 40m or more with twice as much eHP. Gives assaults a fighting chance against 11m/s scouts and min assault SG's that can 1 shot you. Could go on and on. It is an EXPLOSIVE. Name one other FPS where nades ARE NOT 1 hitters? At least in Dust you might live. Dude if you're using Grenades on a sentinel you're doing something extremely wrong. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Shepherd Grey Capital Acquisitions LLC 488	Posted - 2015.05.02 23:22:00 - [83] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Dude if you're using Grenades on a sentinel you're doing something extremely wrong. Um, I don't believe I said sentinels using them, albeit they actually are pretty effective and I DO utilize them when in my cal heavy (of course, I'm scrub heavy). Na, I said ASSAULTS using them.
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9916	Posted - 2015.05.02 23:26:00 - [84] - Quote Shepherd Grey wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Dude if you're using Grenades on a sentinel you're doing something extremely wrong. Um, I don't believe I said sentinels using them, albeit they actually are pretty effective and I DO utilize them when in my cal heavy (of course, I'm scrub heavy). Na, I said ASSAULTS using them. O.o; what game are you playing that someone using an HMG is in anything other than a sentinel You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1976	Posted - 2015.05.03 01:03:00 - [85] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: That'd be fine, but 600 damage over 7.2m is just insane for something that can be replenished by nanohives. I'd even argue that they're more so a problem because of the ability to replenish them with nanohives whereas the Remote Explosives cannot be replenished, save for respawning or going to a supply depot. Even though I agree mostly with you, Aeon, I have to correct a bit: - damage diminishes the further you get from the center of blast, until it barely scratches - dust meters are... well, most likely feet. - giving an explosive weapon a blast radius buff is also a form of damage buff, as the damage around gets higher and the area gets exponentially higher (a comment for your ok sleek+packed nade suggestion) Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
hold that Capital Acquisitions LLC 809	Posted - 2015.05.03 01:11:00 - [86] - Quote If you guys keep complaining how else are you going to clear the catwalks of Mass Drivers on the train map
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9918	Posted - 2015.05.03 01:13:00 - [87] - Quote hold that wrote: If you guys keep complaining how else are you going to clear the catwalks of Mass Drivers on the train map By not being a ***** and jumping up there with Myrofibrils like a man. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 922	Posted - 2015.05.03 01:15:00 - [88] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. Make the throw distance on RE's 1~2m. That way if you want you still could use the jihad LAV tactic to blow up tanks. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Tectonic Fusion 2376	Posted - 2015.05.03 01:19:00 - [89] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: I once complained about op pro tanks and I will tell you what one person posted but for the pro nade. The pro nade need more skill point to use. Normally it takes like 350.000 sp to skill to pro weapons. The pro nades take 650.000. It is good just as it is. Not to mention its 14.000 ISk per nade, compared to the 600 for std NADES. Just because they cost more doent mean they should be so much better than adv and std. Yes they should be good but not to the point where the other 2 are pointless to use. ^ THIS is the very essence of good game design! If CCP makes core grenades kinda potato, then they should AT LEAST reduce the skill cost. It shouldn't cost more than remote explosives to skill into... (GIF)
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game RUST415 576	Posted - 2015.05.03 01:34:00 - [90] - Quote You usually make threads much more elaborated than "It killed me, nerf it" Aeon. You disappoint me.. While someone is cooking its grenade, you can shoot him down. And if you see him cooking it, you can avoid it easily. The damage falloff is huge and cores dont deal anything if they're not in a max 3m radius from their target. Quit whining. Fix the game before trying to add anything else. (Hint: hit detection, lags, glitches,.. you've got some work :) )

Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9918	Posted - 2015.05.03 01:42:00 - [91] - Quote Sequal's Back wrote: You usually make threads much more elaborated than "It killed me, nerf it" Aeon. You disappoint me.. While someone is cooking its grenade, you can shoot him down. And if you see him cooking it, you can avoid it easily. The damage falloff is huge and cores dont deal anything if they're not in a max 3m radius from their target. Quit whining. \ get bent You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8355	Posted - 2015.05.03 01:48:00 - [92] - Quote The only nerf geenades ever needed was the removal of the ability to replenish them with a nanohive. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Dreis ShadowWeaver 0uter.Heaven Back and Forth 3378	Posted - 2015.05.03 02:46:00 - [93] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: I'd even argue that they're more so a problem because of the ability to replenish them with nanohives whereas the Remote Explosives cannot be replenished, save for respawning or going to a supply depot. Are you 100% sure of this? I can recall several times when Nanohives have resupplied my Remote Explosives. Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel My Minja Blog Day 16/30 exclusively Minja
Shepherd Grey Capital Acquisitions LLC 492	Posted - 2015.05.03 03:12:00 - [94] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Shepherd Grey wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Dude if you're using Grenades on a sentinel you're doing something extremely wrong. Um, I don't believe I said sentinels using them, albeit they actually are pretty effective and I DO utilize them when in my cal heavy (of course, I'm scrub heavy). Na, I said ASSAULTS using them. O.o; what game are you playing that someone using an HMG is in anything other than a sentinel please re-read my op. sigh
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9920	Posted - 2015.05.03 03:15:00 - [95] - Quote Shepherd Grey wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Shepherd Grey wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Dude if you're using Grenades on a sentinel you're doing something extremely wrong. Um, I don't believe I said sentinels using them, albeit they actually are pretty effective and I DO utilize them when in my cal heavy (of course, I'm scrub heavy). Na, I said ASSAULTS using them. O.o; what game are you playing that someone using an HMG is in anything other than a sentinel please re-read my op. sigh Take your own advice: "Nades are an assault's only equalizer against an HMG that has an effective range of 40m or more with twice as much eHP. " You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Dreis ShadowWeaver 0uter.Heaven Back and Forth 3379	Posted - 2015.05.03 03:25:00 - [96] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Shepherd Grey wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Shepherd Grey wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Dude if you're using Grenades on a sentinel you're doing something extremely wrong. Um, I don't believe I said sentinels using them, albeit they actually are pretty effective and I DO utilize them when in my cal heavy (of course, I'm scrub heavy). Na, I said ASSAULTS using them. O.o; what game are you playing that someone using an HMG is in anything other than a sentinel please re-read my op. sigh Take your own advice: "Nades are an assault's only equalizer against an HMG that has an effective range of 40m or more with twice as much eHP. " When you said 'Dude if you're using Grenades on a sentinel you're doing something extremely wrong.', did you mean 'on' in the same sense as 'against'? Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel My Minja Blog Day 16/30 exclusively Minja
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8358	Posted - 2015.05.03 03:31:00 - [97] - Quote Damage versus a sentinel is damage vs a sentinel. Most sentinels are too stupid to realize that grenades still actually do damage. Just because a 600-700 dMage core gets dropped to what, 450? That's 450 damage that most fatties won't bother dodging. I dodge them out of habit, because calsent/flux There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Demandred Moores Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 57	Posted - 2015.05.03 04:45:00 - [98] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: I've brought this up many times and i'll say it here again. Locus nades just need 2 types...sleek and packed. The core gives you enough of the best of both worlds that it ends up being a little 2 easy to deliver that level of damage. You need to change locus nades so that at basic, advanced and proto there is a packed variant with low radius but high damage and the sleek version which would have low damage (look at the sleek and scale it) but have a large radius. And long before you fix this you need to fix RE's. RE's as a much larger 'copout' than locus do to the MASSIVE dps increase and it takes a comparable amount of time to arm to the grenade's 'cook' Furthermore you get 2 nades...but up to 4 carried RE's. That'd be fine, but 600 damage over 7.2m is just insane for something that can be replenished by nanohives. I'd even argue that they're more so a problem because of the ability to replenish them with nanohives whereas the Remote Explosives cannot be replenished, save for respawning or going to a supply depot. re's can be re supplied by hives....
Aggrohim Escrow Removal and Acquisition 92	Posted - 2015.05.03 05:57:00 - [99] - Quote Shepherd Grey wrote: No need to read, nerfing nades is simply ridiculous. The act of cooking makes you completely vulnerable, you only carry 2 nades at a time anyway, cooking/tossing takes aLOT more skill than RE's which do significantly more damage across a wider radius and can be detonated at will. Nades are an assault's only equalizer against an HMG that has an effective range of 40m or more with twice as much eHP. Gives assaults a fighting chance against 11m/s scouts and min assault SG's that can 1 shot you. Could go on and on. It is an EXPLOSIVE. Name one other FPS where nades ARE NOT 1 hitters? At least in Dust you might live. Says the Proto Stomper with unlimited money and isk. Ok so here yea Core nades are OP atm and that's all there is too it. Spam them and you get a name like Globfather of Outer Heaven. Dust isn't like most Shooter games. It takes a lot longer to kill and nades shouldn't be the goto for Proto Stompers in pubs in every fight. In most other games it is a reaction shooter so people are dying instantly anyhow and 2v1s and 3v1s are a lot easier to get through. It Dust you have to be strategic and stick closer to your team to take a point. There shouldn't be 1 thing that kills a 4 suites attacking a point or defending a point , that includes REs . So yes nades and REs need a nerfing ,but on the other hand there is nothing left to kill 3-4 Proto heavies defending a closed point .That's the only problem That I see wit nerfing held explosives is the fact that 3 Heavys wit a logi or 2 can take a point and hold it against twice it's numbers of Assaults. So where does that leave us? Leave explosive dmg where it is and buff Bsc and Adv health levels to be more on par with Proto. In which case I think would help all around By decreasing the number of games that Proto Stomps dominate the whole game and increase the amount of kills overall for new players. The Proto should always have an advantage but shouldn't be able to take on whole squads on bsc gear -CEO of -ERA- -Corp Count:20
bathtubist TRUE SAVAGES Learning Alliance 100	Posted - 2015.05.03 07:10:00 - [100] - Quote NERF THE ******* DUCKING TRUCKING RE"S RE's RE's RE"s RE's RE's NERF THE RE'S Gallente logi ftw

CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3434	Posted - 2015.05.03 10:50:00 - [101] - Quote Thing I hate most about Core nades is that because I tend to be greedy and speed stack most my suits.... none of them have enough HP to survive a frag.... Totally accept that this is my play style decision, still doesn't change the fact that I hate and fear a good fragger in game.... Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why hide a solution under frothy pile of derpa? SCV Ready!
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9922	Posted - 2015.05.03 11:08:00 - [102] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Thing I hate most about Core nades is that because I tend to be greedy and speed stack most my suits.... none of them have enough HP to survive a frag.... Totally accept that this is my play style decision, still doesn't change the fact that I hate and fear a good fragger in game.... Eh, give it a bit, someone will come in here saying that Grenades don't need to be nerfed and that armor just needs to be nerfed. They'll say armor takes up 'x' amount of the market orders and because they're so powerful, that if they get nerfed, grenades will suddenly become balanced due to a magical jesus change. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9922	Posted - 2015.05.03 11:12:00 - [103] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: I've brought this up many times and i'll say it here again. Locus nades just need 2 types...sleek and packed. The core gives you enough of the best of both worlds that it ends up being a little 2 easy to deliver that level of damage. You need to change locus nades so that at basic, advanced and proto there is a packed variant with low radius but high damage and the sleek version which would have low damage (look at the sleek and scale it) but have a large radius. And long before you fix this you need to fix RE's. RE's as a much larger 'copout' than locus do to the MASSIVE dps increase and it takes a comparable amount of time to arm to the grenade's 'cook' Furthermore you get 2 nades...but up to 4 carried RE's. That'd be fine, but 600 damage over 7.2m is just insane for something that can be replenished by nanohives. I'd even argue that they're more so a problem because of the ability to replenish them with nanohives whereas the Remote Explosives cannot be replenished, save for respawning or going to a supply depot. re's can be re supplied by hives.... Well, if that's true, it's news to me. Used to not be that way and it goes to show how much I use them (Core Locus Grenades are infinitely better, IMO). You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
saxonmish T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 1114	Posted - 2015.05.03 11:15:00 - [104] - Quote Your right they do need to be buffed, they cant even 1 shot a heavy. i mean what sort of highly modified space grenade is this jees. I vote against a core locus nerf because it will just turn into what the 'Thukker Grenade' got, and that got Thukked up. Grenades are my favourite weapon on this game, i say this because there is nothing more appealing than cooking and throwing your grenade perfectly over a wall and into someone's face. No Nerf! SAXON ON A MISH - My Youtube Channel :)
4lbert Wesker Mithril Forge E-R-A 186	Posted - 2015.05.03 11:17:00 - [105] - Quote I dunno man.I get killed by nade maybe once or twice in a week.Core nade may have big damage but you can evade it in one second.Not a problem to me.Much bigger problem is RE where people throw it like a frisbee. Public skirmish = camping games
saxonmish T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 1114	Posted - 2015.05.03 11:30:00 - [106] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Shepherd Grey wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Dude if you're using Grenades on a sentinel you're doing something extremely wrong. Um, I don't believe I said sentinels using them, albeit they actually are pretty effective and I DO utilize them when in my cal heavy (of course, I'm scrub heavy). Na, I said ASSAULTS using them. O.o; what game are you playing that someone using an HMG is in anything other than a sentinel can you even read XD omfg you misread both of his post's lawl SAXON ON A MISH - My Youtube Channel :)
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9922	Posted - 2015.05.03 11:42:00 - [107] - Quote saxonmish wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Shepherd Grey wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Dude if you're using Grenades on a sentinel you're doing something extremely wrong. Um, I don't believe I said sentinels using them, albeit they actually are pretty effective and I DO utilize them when in my cal heavy (of course, I'm scrub heavy). Na, I said ASSAULTS using them. O.o; what game are you playing that someone using an HMG is in anything other than a sentinel can you even read XD omfg you misread both of his post's lawl "Nades are an assault's only equalizer against an HMG " How the hell can that be misread? Explain it to me. Word for word. Go. Do it. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3434	Posted - 2015.05.03 12:26:00 - [108] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: saxonmish wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Shepherd Grey wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Dude if you're using Grenades on a sentinel you're doing something extremely wrong. Um, I don't believe I said sentinels using them, albeit they actually are pretty effective and I DO utilize them when in my cal heavy (of course, I'm scrub heavy). Na, I said ASSAULTS using them. O.o; what game are you playing that someone using an HMG is in anything other than a sentinel can you even read XD omfg you misread both of his post's lawl "Nades are an assault's only equalizer against an HMG " How the hell can that be misread? Explain it to me. Word for word. Go. Do it. I believe they are misreading you Aeon, you are basically saying if you are close enough to use nades against a HMG'er then things are pretty bad, why not attack them at range (if possible) right? To that I would argue a small point that we cannot forget however..... some of the levels / objective locations do not allow for any long range shooting. But I agree with you otherwise. Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why hide a solution under frothy pile of derpa? SCV Ready!
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1980	Posted - 2015.05.03 15:03:00 - [109] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The only nerf geenades ever needed was the removal of the ability to replenish them with a nanohive. Or rather make sure the resupply rate - the time - gets increased (nerfed). 20s standing on a hive is an eternity. That would also make sure everyone would get primary ammo before the logibro's hive is being gulped by nades. Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
Demandred Moores Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 58	Posted - 2015.05.03 18:09:00 - [110] - Quote Agreed, the op isn't in how it works but how spamable they are I can agree to that at least. The grenade does it's job, but the resupply rate makes them abuseble with 6 hives.

KILL3R H3LLH0UND New Eden's Black Market 260	Posted - 2015.05.03 18:54:00 - [111] - Quote OR.... do what they did in battlefield 4... yount cook a nade. you hit r2 and you have 0.4 sec to pull the pin and throw it. Ex-Master Scout Trainer, been falling in love with my Minja again. I <3 my Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ
4lbert Wesker Mithril Forge E-R-A 188	Posted - 2015.05.03 20:24:00 - [112] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: Agreed, the op isn't in how it works but how spamable they are I can agree to that at least. The grenade does it's job, but the resupply rate makes them abuseble with 6 hives. Imagine caldari logi + 3 nanohives + core nades Public skirmish = camping games
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10995	Posted - 2015.05.03 22:07:00 - [113] - Quote KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote: OR.... do what they did in battlefield 4... yount cook a nade. you hit r2 and you have 0.4 sec to pull the pin and throw it. Amen. In Battlefield, grenades are used to flush people out of spots they are sitting in. Grenade comes in, they have a choice. Try and eat the grenade and hope they live, or leave cover. Most people choose the second, and have to try to run through enemy fire. I like it this way. You can't just go "Oh, he's right behind there. Say hello to my pocket grenade launcher", and then chuck a cooked nade on his head. Buff contact nades, and then remove cooking on the other ones. You want instant explosion? Use a contact; you have very high damage and have severely reduced splash radius. You want to flush people out? Use a normal nade;You can't cook, but you have high damage and range. Then we can buff the sleek nade and give them HUGE range but very low splash damage. Think of them as equipment killers, toss very far onto roofs and watch the EQ pop. This goes for fluxes too. Contact fluxes would be really cool to see. Imagine a super high damage flux nade that explodes on contact. Great for Cal Heavies or Tanks (Still has VERY small radius). Just my thoughts on the matter. Currently listening to: Max Anarchy OST Old School Scout, watch out for the knives
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1331	Posted - 2015.05.03 22:15:00 - [114] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. Changing the distance on the RE is not going to do anything. People will still cry "frisbee". The ones who complain usually have the worst situational awareness. A scout running directly at them with no gun in hand, doesn't register as an explosive until these guys die from it. Then they complain that it was a "frisbee" even though the user was close enough to melee them. :/ Unless you're trying to replace, or possibly eclipse, RE's with Shotguns, the same group of people will get killed in the same way, and still complain. If you think it will cause balance, go ahead, but remember to watch what happens. People may start creating invulnerable positions if explosives no longer mean a threat to them. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Alena Ventrallis Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 3034	Posted - 2015.05.03 22:36:00 - [115] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. I think we should normalize splash and have damage increase on a smaller curve. Splash radius: 6m STD: 400 dmg ADV: 450 dmg PRO: 500 dmg PRo is still better, but not god-tier better. Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2722	Posted - 2015.05.03 22:42:00 - [116] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: The only nerf geenades ever needed was the removal of the ability to replenish them with a nanohive. Or rather make sure the resupply rate - the time - gets increased (nerfed). 20s standing on a hive is an eternity. That would also make sure everyone would get primary ammo before the logibro's hive is being gulped by nades. Both Breakin and KEROSIN have got it here. There's mutiple wins if we slow down 'nade replenishment rate and make it lowest priority for replenishment order. PSN: RationalSpark
xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 526	Posted - 2015.05.04 00:11:00 - [117] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Cook for two seconds, instant or near kill. Things do way too much damage for the ability to simply cook and collect bacon over a 7.2m radius. To be clear, the effective range of this thing is larger then than of the Shotgun's optimal range. For 720 damage to armor you effectively negate the entire defense of most suits just by holding down the button for a few seconds. IMO, grenade shouldn't be the first thing you resort to when in an engagement. Softening targets is one thing but killing multiple targets outright is a little ridiculous. For such a low-skill weapon, it's power needs to be scaled down rather dramatically. It's not like placing a well-aimed PLC shot or Forge-gun round (who's splash damage is lower, still) and I'd even argue that placing Mass Driver rounds on target takes more skill than just holding down the button and vaguely facing the enemy's direction. Proposal (any number of these will work): - Nerf the damage so that it's used as a proper splash damage weapon and not a way to cop-out of the shooter game. - Remove it from the Nanohives' restock capability; you should only be able to get them from supply depots. - Increase the PG/CPU so it has the costs of a primary weapon, since it basically is at this point. (Do me a solid and don't bring up the Flux Grenade. That's for a different thread.) Your post is coming off more of a personal problem than one that would do well to serve all who use it. It's a grenade yo... it's suppose to kill and mutilate. It's not a tennis ball *\|LOGi GOD\|* Director of Fatal Absolution
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. RUST415 792	Posted - 2015.05.04 00:40:00 - [118] - Quote I'm glad it's still one of the weapons in the game that don't feel like it's a toy. If you get caught on the wrong end of a grenade I'd think you should die. While I think the Core Locus are nice I'm to cheap to run them on my suits. When I get killed by them it's normally because they are cooked and it isn't always easy landing them so it doesn't bother me to much. I'm glad they are a lethal option, not sure what you can tweak without turning it into a toy. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9958	Posted - 2015.05.04 04:54:00 - [119] - Quote xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Cook for two seconds, instant or near kill. Things do way too much damage for the ability to simply cook and collect bacon over a 7.2m radius. To be clear, the effective range of this thing is larger then than of the Shotgun's optimal range. For 720 damage to armor you effectively negate the entire defense of most suits just by holding down the button for a few seconds. IMO, grenade shouldn't be the first thing you resort to when in an engagement. Softening targets is one thing but killing multiple targets outright is a little ridiculous. For such a low-skill weapon, it's power needs to be scaled down rather dramatically. It's not like placing a well-aimed PLC shot or Forge-gun round (who's splash damage is lower, still) and I'd even argue that placing Mass Driver rounds on target takes more skill than just holding down the button and vaguely facing the enemy's direction. Proposal (any number of these will work): - Nerf the damage so that it's used as a proper splash damage weapon and not a way to cop-out of the shooter game. - Remove it from the Nanohives' restock capability; you should only be able to get them from supply depots. - Increase the PG/CPU so it has the costs of a primary weapon, since it basically is at this point. (Do me a solid and don't bring up the Flux Grenade. That's for a different thread.) Your post is coming off more of a personal problem than one that would do well to serve all who use it. It's a grenade yo... it's suppose to kill and mutilate. It's not a tennis ball A personal problem that at least 22 other people are in agreement on. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Demandred Moores Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 61	Posted - 2015.05.04 05:07:00 - [120] - Quote KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote: OR.... do what they did in battlefield 4... yount cook a nade. you hit r2 and you have 0.4 sec to pull the pin and throw it. I Thought this was the dumbest thing in bf4 I don't see the point in taking away the ability to cook it at all. I'll just spam more of them Since I can't cook them to ensure area denial. Like I said before the only problem they have isn't how they work bit how fast they resupply and how abusable they are with 6 hives. The grenade does it's job it's a grenade. They wouldn't still use them in the future if they weren't able to do the job of a grenade.

Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 1159	Posted - 2015.05.04 05:09:00 - [121] - Quote I'm not really seeing a problem with core nades either. Except for the fact that I don't know why the other tiers even exist... Same with AV and Flux. We just need 3 nades Core locus/lai dai av/ basic flux. Remove all the other grenade assets from game - that should also help with releasing some resources for new content.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10996	Posted - 2015.05.04 06:07:00 - [122] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Cook for two seconds, instant or near kill. Things do way too much damage for the ability to simply cook and collect bacon over a 7.2m radius. To be clear, the effective range of this thing is larger then than of the Shotgun's optimal range. For 720 damage to armor you effectively negate the entire defense of most suits just by holding down the button for a few seconds. IMO, grenade shouldn't be the first thing you resort to when in an engagement. Softening targets is one thing but killing multiple targets outright is a little ridiculous. For such a low-skill weapon, it's power needs to be scaled down rather dramatically. It's not like placing a well-aimed PLC shot or Forge-gun round (who's splash damage is lower, still) and I'd even argue that placing Mass Driver rounds on target takes more skill than just holding down the button and vaguely facing the enemy's direction. Proposal (any number of these will work): - Nerf the damage so that it's used as a proper splash damage weapon and not a way to cop-out of the shooter game. - Remove it from the Nanohives' restock capability; you should only be able to get them from supply depots. - Increase the PG/CPU so it has the costs of a primary weapon, since it basically is at this point. (Do me a solid and don't bring up the Flux Grenade. That's for a different thread.) Your post is coming off more of a personal problem than one that would do well to serve all who use it. It's a grenade yo... it's suppose to kill and mutilate. It's not a tennis ball A personal problem that at least 22 other people are in agreement on. Which means that 50% of the Dust forums agree with him! Currently listening to: Max Anarchy OST Old School Scout, watch out for the knives
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3437	Posted - 2015.05.04 06:11:00 - [123] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote: OR.... do what they did in battlefield 4... yount cook a nade. you hit r2 and you have 0.4 sec to pull the pin and throw it. Amen. In Battlefield, grenades are used to flush people out of spots they are sitting in. Grenade comes in, they have a choice. Try and eat the grenade and hope they live, or leave cover. Most people choose the second, and have to try to run through enemy fire. I like it this way. You can't just go "Oh, he's right behind there. Say hello to my pocket grenade launcher", and then chuck a cooked nade on his head. Buff contact nades, and then remove cooking on the other ones. You want instant explosion? Use a contact; you have very high damage and have severely reduced splash radius. You want to flush people out? Use a normal nade;You can't cook, but you have high damage and range. Then we can buff the sleek nade and give them HUGE range but very low splash damage. Think of them as equipment killers, toss very far onto roofs and watch the EQ pop. This goes for fluxes too. Contact fluxes would be really cool to see. Imagine a super high damage flux nade that explodes on contact. Great for Cal Heavies or Tanks (Still has VERY small radius). Just my thoughts on the matter. So is this why game developers tend not to let people cook nades in their games any more? (Because of easy mode abuseage) because I have always liked how this game lets you cook grenades but you do have a point.... Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why hide a solution under frothy pile of derpa? SCV Ready!
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10997	Posted - 2015.05.04 06:17:00 - [124] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote: OR.... do what they did in battlefield 4... yount cook a nade. you hit r2 and you have 0.4 sec to pull the pin and throw it. Amen. In Battlefield, grenades are used to flush people out of spots they are sitting in. Grenade comes in, they have a choice. Try and eat the grenade and hope they live, or leave cover. Most people choose the second, and have to try to run through enemy fire. I like it this way. You can't just go "Oh, he's right behind there. Say hello to my pocket grenade launcher", and then chuck a cooked nade on his head. Buff contact nades, and then remove cooking on the other ones. You want instant explosion? Use a contact; you have very high damage and have severely reduced splash radius. You want to flush people out? Use a normal nade;You can't cook, but you have high damage and range. Then we can buff the sleek nade and give them HUGE range but very low splash damage. Think of them as equipment killers, toss very far onto roofs and watch the EQ pop. This goes for fluxes too. Contact fluxes would be really cool to see. Imagine a super high damage flux nade that explodes on contact. Great for Cal Heavies or Tanks (Still has VERY small radius). Just my thoughts on the matter. So is this why game developers tend not to let people cook nades in their games any more? (Because of easy mode abuseage) because I have always liked how this game lets you cook grenades but you do have a point.... I'm not sure if thats what the developers though, but it made sense to me. Noob tubes were used in BF2 to kill people in cover (when it was indestructible), as the splash would hit them through it. Grenades couldn't be cooked, but everyone had access to them. Most people dealt with people in cover by tossing a grenade and pre-firing where they would be running out. Assaults didn't have to. They could just launch a noob tube at the dude. Call em the wrecking balls. Cooking greandes allow grenades to trespass onto noob tube territory. If made too strong, why carry one? Everyone know has a pocket grenade launcher. Speaking of which, I want my underslung weapon system. I would kill for an underslung shotgun or launcher in Dust. With varible damage profiles. EMP launcher on a combat rifle. I'm drooling at the thought. Currently listening to: Max Anarchy OST Old School Scout, watch out for the knives
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9959	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:48:00 - [125] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Cook for two seconds, instant or near kill. Things do way too much damage for the ability to simply cook and collect bacon over a 7.2m radius. To be clear, the effective range of this thing is larger then than of the Shotgun's optimal range. For 720 damage to armor you effectively negate the entire defense of most suits just by holding down the button for a few seconds. IMO, grenade shouldn't be the first thing you resort to when in an engagement. Softening targets is one thing but killing multiple targets outright is a little ridiculous. For such a low-skill weapon, it's power needs to be scaled down rather dramatically. It's not like placing a well-aimed PLC shot or Forge-gun round (who's splash damage is lower, still) and I'd even argue that placing Mass Driver rounds on target takes more skill than just holding down the button and vaguely facing the enemy's direction. Proposal (any number of these will work): - Nerf the damage so that it's used as a proper splash damage weapon and not a way to cop-out of the shooter game. - Remove it from the Nanohives' restock capability; you should only be able to get them from supply depots. - Increase the PG/CPU so it has the costs of a primary weapon, since it basically is at this point. (Do me a solid and don't bring up the Flux Grenade. That's for a different thread.) Your post is coming off more of a personal problem than one that would do well to serve all who use it. It's a grenade yo... it's suppose to kill and mutilate. It's not a tennis ball A personal problem that at least 22 other people are in agreement on. Which means that 50% of the Dust forums agree with him! Well, don't say it's a personal problem when there are other people who feel the same way O.o??? You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 652	Posted - 2015.05.04 18:47:00 - [126] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. I think we should normalize splash and have damage increase on a smaller curve. Splash radius: 6m STD: 400 dmg ADV: 450 dmg PRO: 500 dmg PRo is still better, but not god-tier better. I like this idea, also thukkers need a bit of a radius increase, they are worthless.
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 652	Posted - 2015.05.04 18:49:00 - [127] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote: OR.... do what they did in battlefield 4... yount cook a nade. you hit r2 and you have 0.4 sec to pull the pin and throw it. Amen. In Battlefield, grenades are used to flush people out of spots they are sitting in. Grenade comes in, they have a choice. Try and eat the grenade and hope they live, or leave cover. Most people choose the second, and have to try to run through enemy fire. I like it this way. You can't just go "Oh, he's right behind there. Say hello to my pocket grenade launcher", and then chuck a cooked nade on his head. Buff contact nades, and then remove cooking on the other ones. You want instant explosion? Use a contact; you have very high damage and have severely reduced splash radius. You want to flush people out? Use a normal nade;You can't cook, but you have high damage and range. Then we can buff the sleek nade and give them HUGE range but very low splash damage. Think of them as equipment killers, toss very far onto roofs and watch the EQ pop. This goes for fluxes too. Contact fluxes would be really cool to see. Imagine a super high damage flux nade that explodes on contact. Great for Cal Heavies or Tanks (Still has VERY small radius). Just my thoughts on the matter. So is this why game developers tend not to let people cook nades in their games any more? (Because of easy mode abuseage) because I have always liked how this game lets you cook grenades but you do have a point.... I'm not sure if thats what the developers though, but it made sense to me. Noob tubes were used in BF2 to kill people in cover (when it was indestructible), as the splash would hit them through it. Grenades couldn't be cooked, but everyone had access to them. Most people dealt with people in cover by tossing a grenade and pre-firing where they would be running out. Assaults didn't have to. They could just launch a noob tube at the dude. Call em the wrecking balls. Cooking greandes allow grenades to trespass onto noob tube territory. If made too strong, why carry one? Everyone know has a pocket grenade launcher. Speaking of which, I want my underslung weapon system. I would kill for an underslung shotgun or launcher in Dust. With varible damage profiles. EMP launcher on a combat rifle. I'm drooling at the thought. Me and two friends used to run a noob tube assembly line in BF2, just roll up to a position, one guy dropping medpacks and reviving if someone died, other guy dumping out ammo constantly, and me just noob tubing anyone who showed their faces. Was so fun (until they rightly nerfed the noob tube so it had a time delay before contact would explode the grenade).
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9409	Posted - 2015.05.04 19:11:00 - [128] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. I think we should normalize splash and have damage increase on a smaller curve. Splash radius: 6m STD: 400 dmg ADV: 450 dmg PRO: 500 dmg PRo is still better, but not god-tier better. I like this idea, also thukkers need a bit of a radius increase, they are worthless. Increments of 50 DMG won't justify the expense or resource req'ts of running prototype grenades. If the goal is to normalize progressions, I'd recommend 400/500/600 (from 300/400/600). In my opinion, HP levels are simply too high to justify a nerf to damage output. When a newbro cooks, tosses and explodes an anti-personnel grenade a foot from your face, it needs to hurt. If it doesn't hurt, it breaks immersion. If we're tuning blast radii, I agree that Thukker (2.5m) is too tight as is M8 packed locus (3.3m). Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 870	Posted - 2015.05.04 19:42:00 - [129] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Cook for two seconds, instant or near kill. Things do way too much damage for the ability to simply cook and collect bacon over a 7.2m radius. To be clear, the effective range of this thing is larger then than of the Shotgun's optimal range. For 720 damage to armor you effectively negate the entire defense of most suits just by holding down the button for a few seconds. IMO, grenade shouldn't be the first thing you resort to when in an engagement. Softening targets is one thing but killing multiple targets outright is a little ridiculous. For such a low-skill weapon, it's power needs to be scaled down rather dramatically. It's not like placing a well-aimed PLC shot or Forge-gun round (who's splash damage is lower, still) and I'd even argue that placing Mass Driver rounds on target takes more skill than just holding down the button and vaguely facing the enemy's direction. Proposal (any number of these will work): - Nerf the damage so that it's used as a proper splash damage weapon and not a way to cop-out of the shooter game. - Remove it from the Nanohives' restock capability; you should only be able to get them from supply depots. - Increase the PG/CPU so it has the costs of a primary weapon, since it basically is at this point. (Do me a solid and don't bring up the Flux Grenade. That's for a different thread.) Cores were fine. Then Rattati buffed nanohives and they became abusable. Everyone saw it coming, no one said anything. :) in my logi on a balcony screaming "touchdown" every time I kill someone lol! "Anybody order chaos?"
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9959	Posted - 2015.05.04 20:03:00 - [130] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. I think we should normalize splash and have damage increase on a smaller curve. Splash radius: 6m STD: 400 dmg ADV: 450 dmg PRO: 500 dmg PRo is still better, but not god-tier better. I like this idea, also thukkers need a bit of a radius increase, they are worthless. Increments of 50 DMG won't justify the expense or resource req'ts of running prototype grenades. If the goal is to normalize progressions, I'd recommend 400/500/600 (from 300/400/600). In my opinion, HP levels are simply too high to justify a nerf to damage output. When a newbro cooks, tosses and explodes an anti-personnel grenade a foot from your face, it needs to hurt. If it doesn't hurt, it breaks immersion. If we're tuning blast radii, I agree that Thukker (2.5m) is too tight as is M8 packed locus (3.3m). TTK doesn't need to be lower, it needs to be higher. I don't think HP levels are high enough and weapon damage has been getting higher and higher ever since 1.9. Game is losing it's tactical aspect and becoming more and more of a blobby-twitch shooter. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9415	Posted - 2015.05.04 20:15:00 - [131] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Increments of 50 DMG won't justify the expense or resource req'ts of running prototype grenades. If the goal is to normalize progressions, I'd recommend 400/500/600 (from 300/400/600). In my opinion, HP levels are simply too high to justify a nerf to damage output. When a newbro cooks, tosses and explodes an anti-personnel grenade a foot from your face, it needs to hurt. If it doesn't hurt, it breaks immersion. If we're tuning blast radii, I agree that Thukker (2.5m) is too tight as is M8 packed locus (3.3m). TTK doesn't need to be lower, it needs to be higher. I don't think HP levels are high enough and weapon damage has been getting higher and higher ever since 1.9. Game is losing it's tactical aspect and becoming more and more of a blobby-twitch shooter. I don't like it, and you don't like it, but blobbing up is a tactic. Tossing a grenade into the blob could and should be a counter-tactic. Grenades are too weak to be of tactical benefit against blobs. Making them weaker won't make them more tactical. In my opinion, this game was at its best in Chromosome. Everything was deadly, and everyone died quickly. There were no free passes, and newbro who got the drop on a vet more often than not killed the vet. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9959	Posted - 2015.05.04 21:17:00 - [132] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Increments of 50 DMG won't justify the expense or resource req'ts of running prototype grenades. If the goal is to normalize progressions, I'd recommend 400/500/600 (from 300/400/600). In my opinion, HP levels are simply too high to justify a nerf to damage output. When a newbro cooks, tosses and explodes an anti-personnel grenade a foot from your face, it needs to hurt. If it doesn't hurt, it breaks immersion. If we're tuning blast radii, I agree that Thukker (2.5m) is too tight as is M8 packed locus (3.3m). TTK doesn't need to be lower, it needs to be higher. I don't think HP levels are high enough and weapon damage has been getting higher and higher ever since 1.9. Game is losing it's tactical aspect and becoming more and more of a blobby-twitch shooter. I don't like it, and you don't like it, but blobbing up is a tactic. Tossing a grenade into the blob could and should be a counter-tactic. Unfortunately, grenades are too weak to be of tactical benefit against blobs. Making them weaker won't make them more tactical. In my opinion, this game was at its best in Chromosome when everything was deadly, and everyone died quickly. There were no free passes, so when a newbro got the drop on a vet, he more often than not killed that vet. There was little time to respond once you were outplayed, so you watched your buddies backs and tried not to get outplayed. Today, weapons are gentler and HP pools are deeper, so when you're hit (even in the back) there's lots of time to react. In my mind, TTK increases do not benefit gameplay; they benefit lazy play. Shouldn't tactics be more proactive rather reactive? I think we have vastly different memories of what Chromosome was like. I remember it being more tactical as a circumstance because of semi-reliable hit detection and a lack of aim assist which made TTK higher. Blobbing can be a tactic, sure, whatever, but there's better ways to go about it than Core Locus Grenades. Grenades aren't going to stop blobbing, they never have, and if they ever were supposed to then Uprising 1.5 would have been when we saw it all fall apart with Flaylock Pistols and Contact Grenades running rampant. You're not going to stop people from grouping up and I believe it was you who said that there wasn't enough cover in the game, which means that they're grouping up -because- of that lack of cover. Grenades don't do anything to push people out of cover they just kill them outright. That's not engaging gameplay that's just putting people in a ****** situation no matter what, there's no choice system in play and I can't make the conscious decision to either leave cover or stay in cover - I just die. Tactics come from higher TTK because you have to consider options, you have to know whether your weapon is going to work against your target well or if you should consider finding someone else to shoot at. That's not the case in Dust 514 because weaponry has been homogenized to the point that an ASCR will eat through armor just as well as any other weapon and an HMG doesn't care if you're using Shields or Armor - you're just going to die. So, yes, tactics should be more proactive but you're not gaining that by saying "Let me have my OHK grenade that no-one has time to react to" - that's contrary to what you're wanting in the first place because there's no decision making in how a person wants to die. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9417	Posted - 2015.05.04 23:34:00 - [133] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Increments of 50 DMG won't justify the expense or resource req'ts of running prototype grenades. If the goal is to normalize progressions, I'd recommend 400/500/600 (from 300/400/600). In my opinion, HP levels are simply too high to justify a nerf to damage output. When a newbro cooks, tosses and explodes an anti-personnel grenade a foot from your face, it needs to hurt. If it doesn't hurt, it breaks immersion. If we're tuning blast radii, I agree that Thukker (2.5m) is too tight as is M8 packed locus (3.3m). TTK doesn't need to be lower, it needs to be higher. I don't think HP levels are high enough and weapon damage has been getting higher and higher ever since 1.9. Game is losing it's tactical aspect and becoming more and more of a blobby-twitch shooter. I don't like it, and you don't like it, but blobbing up is a tactic. Tossing a grenade into the blob could and should be a counter-tactic. Unfortunately, grenades are too weak to be of tactical benefit against blobs. Making them weaker won't make them more tactical. In my opinion, this game was at its best in Chromosome when everything was deadly, and everyone died quickly. There were no free passes, so when a newbro got the drop on a vet, he more often than not killed that vet. There was little time to respond once you were outplayed, so you watched your buddies backs and tried not to get outplayed. Today, weapons are gentler and HP pools are deeper, so when you're hit (even in the back) there's lots of time to react. In my mind, TTK increases do not benefit gameplay; they benefit lazy play. Shouldn't tactics be more proactive than reactive? I think we have vastly different memories of what Chromosome was like. I remember it being more tactical as a circumstance because of semi-reliable hit detection and a lack of aim assist which made TTK higher. Blobbing can be a tactic, sure, whatever, but there's better ways to go about it than Core Locus Grenades. Grenades aren't going to stop blobbing, they never have, and if they ever were supposed to then Uprising 1.5 would have been when we saw it all fall apart with Flaylock Pistols and Contact Grenades running rampant. You're not going to stop people from grouping up and (1) I believe it was you who said that there wasn't enough cover in the game, which means that they're grouping up -because- of that lack of cover. Grenades don't do anything to push people out of cover they just kill them outright. That's not engaging gameplay that's just putting people in a ****** situation no matter what, there's no (2) choice system in play and I can't make the conscious decision to either leave cover or stay in cover - I just die. Tactics come from higher TTK because you have to consider options, you have to know whether your weapon is going to work against your target well or if you should consider finding someone else to shoot at. That's not the case in Dust 514 because weaponry has been homogenized to the point that an ASCR will eat through armor just as well as any other weapon and an HMG doesn't care if you're using Shields or Armor - you're just going to die. So, yes, (3) tactics should be more proactive but you're not gaining that by saying (4) "Let me have my OHK grenade that no-one has time to react to" - that's contrary to what you're wanting in the first place because there's no decision making in how a person wants to die. 1. Yes, I might have said "Dust needs more cover" at some point during AR-514 before cloak was introduced. Back then, as I'm sure you recall, a Duvolle could gun down a speed-tanked Scout at 70m in about half a second. Cover would've helped. 2. The slightest misstep or miscalculation leads to death in other shooters. How is that so many people play them? 3. I agree. And lowering TTK would transform tactics from their presently reactive state to a more proactive state. Call it "twitch" if you want, but making bad decisions or getting outplayed should have consequences in combat. Having lots of time to react to a mistake begets lazy play and is likely to blame for the present King HP meta. 4. I didn't ask for OHK grenades. I asked that we not nerf grenades. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Shepherd Grey Capital Acquisitions LLC 495	Posted - 2015.05.05 01:28:00 - [134] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Which means that 50% of the Dust forums agree with him! Bro, I KNOW you did not just say let's make nades like bf4. Talk about the dumbest set up, mechanics, execution, philosophy E.V.E.R. We should, however, have a tag collection system like bf4 Aggro, lawl. How is isk relevant to philosophical opinions on game mechanics. Separate topic entirely. How are nades "infinitely better than RE's". Again, back to the argument. Nades must be cooked and lobbed with coordination of timing and physics under a live fire situation - one that leaves you completely and utterly exposed to enemy combat. RE's are a place and forget style, no cooking necessary. Albeit they can ALSO be used much like a frisbee grenade, WITH NO COOKING NECESSARY. I guess according to you, we should nerf nova knives too: cuz it what unimaginable world would a set of knives deal more damage than a futuristic explosive device. If you have the skill to cook and place the grenade properly, in effect you earned that kill. If you are an idiot that gets killed by noob nades, go back to academy. YOU CAN HEAR SOMEONE COOKING THEM, AND SEE THEM THROWN, AND HEAR THEM HIT THE GROUND. I'm going with a classic quote on this one: "WORKING AS INTENDED"
Aggrohim Escrow Removal and Acquisition 104	Posted - 2015.05.05 06:43:00 - [135] - Quote Shepherd Grey wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Which means that 50% of the Dust forums agree with him! Bro, I KNOW you did not just say let's make nades like bf4. Talk about the dumbest set up, mechanics, execution, philosophy E.V.E.R. We should, however, have a tag collection system like bf4 Aggro, lawl. How is isk relevant to philosophical opinions on game mechanics. Separate topic entirely. How are nades "infinitely better than RE's". Again, back to the argument. Nades must be cooked and lobbed with coordination of timing and physics under a live fire situation - one that leaves you completely and utterly exposed to enemy combat. RE's are a place and forget style, no cooking necessary. Albeit they can ALSO be used much like a frisbee grenade, WITH NO COOKING NECESSARY. I guess according to you, we should nerf nova knives too: cuz it what unimaginable world would a set of knives deal more damage than a futuristic explosive device. If you have the skill to cook and place the grenade properly, in effect you earned that kill. If you are an idiot that gets killed by noob nades, go back to academy. YOU CAN HEAR SOMEONE COOKING THEM, AND SEE THEM THROWN, AND HEAR THEM HIT THE GROUND. I'm going with a classic quote on this one: "WORKING AS INTENDED" Nova Knives are a skilled weapon. Only a noob or forge gun/sniper stands completely still while firing . And yes getting random kills with nades are quite often .All you have to know is the general direction of the enemy team and boom any weak suites are wiped out. And with a run and go nades can be thrown considerably far from behind cover it isn't like your completely vulnerable when cooking a nade. If some1 comes within your range of view you can just throw it at them And more than likely kill them. I've seen it done and it's happened to me before. With all these Damped Min Assaults running around it fairly hard to get an completely accurate position on them until you see them. -CEO of -ERA- -Corp Count:20
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8386	Posted - 2015.05.05 08:36:00 - [136] - Quote Or, you know. We could ask rattati nicely to remove or reduce the headshot multiplier on splash weapons. Just a little thought. But cooking should absolutely stay. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1987	Posted - 2015.05.05 11:46:00 - [137] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Increments of 50 DMG won't justify the expense or resource req'ts of running prototype grenades. If the goal is to normalize progressions, I'd recommend 400/500/600 (from 300/400/600). In my opinion, HP levels are simply too high to justify a nerf to damage output. When a newbro cooks, tosses and explodes an anti-personnel grenade a foot from your face, it needs to hurt. If it doesn't hurt, it breaks immersion. If we're tuning blast radii, I agree that Thukker (2.5m) is too tight as is M8 packed locus (3.3m). Remember, upping the range effectively increases actual damage. Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8388	Posted - 2015.05.05 11:48:00 - [138] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Remember, upping the range effectively increases actual damage. the problem is if we drop nade damage again we wind up with worthless nades. Again. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1987	Posted - 2015.05.05 11:58:00 - [139] - Quote Okay, I uploaded video that touches the subject. Dust 514: Pub#249 L Camping the depot, tight logitrain Following points can be seen there: - nade resupply is too easy (best fix still the resupply rate/speed) - nade spamming is possible due to above - cooking is powerful - cooking requires dexterity and some planning - nades work against blobs and can be used to kill logitrains ( A longish video, but it is non-stop action straight from the beginning! Explosions everywhere. I was primarying as a rep logi (rare thing for me as I usually suck at it) but somehow I ended up with top kills. Well not somehow, 90% or so kills were nade kills... =P ) Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1987	Posted - 2015.05.05 12:01:00 - [140] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Remember, upping the range effectively increases actual damage. the problem is if we drop nade damage again we wind up with worthless nades. Again. By no means I'm advocating damage drop, just pointed out to the gent there that range is more than just the range where nades can touch people. (lol reminded me of "aaawww show me on the doll where the bad grenade touched you" ) Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8389	Posted - 2015.05.05 13:17:00 - [141] - Quote You know that old quote is more appropriate than you think. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Poison Diego Vengeance Unbound RUST415 596	Posted - 2015.05.05 13:29:00 - [142] - Quote agreed, the cores need a damage nerf and no replenish from nanohives Nýja Eden er bara byrjunin.
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 656	Posted - 2015.05.05 17:37:00 - [143] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. I think we should normalize splash and have damage increase on a smaller curve. Splash radius: 6m STD: 400 dmg ADV: 450 dmg PRO: 500 dmg PRo is still better, but not god-tier better. I like this idea, also thukkers need a bit of a radius increase, they are worthless. Increments of 50 DMG won't justify the expense or resource req'ts of running prototype grenades. If the goal is to normalize progressions, I'd recommend 400/500/600 (from 300/400/600). In my opinion, HP levels are simply too high to justify a nerf to damage output. When a newbro cooks, tosses and explodes an anti-personnel grenade a foot from your face, it needs to hurt. If it doesn't hurt, it breaks immersion. If we're tuning blast radii, I agree that Thukker (2.5m) is too tight as is M8 packed locus (3.3m). I agree with you with the exception of the HP levels are too high to justify a nerf to damage output comment, I think HP levels are too high ON BRICKED SUITS and brick tanking needs to be nerfed via module caps or diminishing returns on HP modules. 600 damage already wrecks my x3 shield extender fits, and shields are supposed to be good against explosives, how many HP modules do I need to throw on my suits to not get one shotted by a grenade? I think 500 at proto is fine, the problem we can agree on is that HP is POTENTIALLY too high for that, however I dont think the answer is to keep grenades at 600, because that hurts non-HP stacked fittings, which just reinforces the high HP values we generally see and ensures the HP meta (which is ******* boring in my opinion) will continue.
Lahut K'mar sarges heros New Eden's Heros 72	Posted - 2015.05.05 17:46:00 - [144] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. Horrifying? That's a strange way to spell "romantic". FIX THE WHEEL, CCP!
Lahut K'mar sarges heros New Eden's Heros 72	Posted - 2015.05.05 17:47:00 - [145] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. Fine, but could you increase the speed at which they are detonated? I can understand the pause between throwing and being allowed to detonate so people don't murderfrisbee (die in a hole) but the time between L1 and BOOM causes problems. It takes what? Half a second to press the button? Depending on your target, that's time for allot of variables. Sentinels and hackers wouldn't get a chance. Lighter suits require a little bit of foresight. Scouts you will generally need to press L1 before they're even in the radius. And vehicles you will need to press L1 while they're several metres away. In that time a scout could do a spacejump or turn a different corner. A minja has a decent chance of lucking out. Vehicles are even worse: In that time an LAV could brake, U-turn or even just turn 30 degrees and completely miss the trap. I'd give an LAV a 70% chance of survival. Horrifying? That's a strange way to spell "romantic". FIX THE WHEEL, CCP!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9428	Posted - 2015.05.05 17:51:00 - [146] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. I think we should normalize splash and have damage increase on a smaller curve. Splash radius: 6m STD: 400 dmg ADV: 450 dmg PRO: 500 dmg PRo is still better, but not god-tier better. I like this idea, also thukkers need a bit of a radius increase, they are worthless. Increments of 50 DMG won't justify the expense or resource req'ts of running prototype grenades. If the goal is to normalize progressions, I'd recommend 400/500/600 (from 300/400/600). In my opinion, HP levels are simply too high to justify a nerf to damage output. When a newbro cooks, tosses and explodes an anti-personnel grenade a foot from your face, it needs to hurt. If it doesn't hurt, it breaks immersion. If we're tuning blast radii, I agree that Thukker (2.5m) is too tight as is M8 packed locus (3.3m). I agree with you with the exception of the HP levels are too high to justify a nerf to damage output comment, I think HP levels are too high ON BRICKED SUITS and brick tanking needs to be nerfed ... That's a fair assessment, Vesta, and I completely agree. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 11002	Posted - 2015.05.05 18:08:00 - [147] - Quote Shepherd Grey wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Which means that 50% of the Dust forums agree with him! Bro, I KNOW you did not just say let's make nades like bf4. Talk about the dumbest set up, mechanics, execution, philosophy E.V.E.R. We should, however, have a tag collection system like bf4 Aggro, lawl. How is isk relevant to philosophical opinions on game mechanics. Separate topic entirely. How are nades "infinitely better than RE's". Again, back to the argument. Nades must be cooked and lobbed with coordination of timing and physics under a live fire situation - one that leaves you completely and utterly exposed to enemy combat. RE's are a place and forget style, no cooking necessary. Albeit they can ALSO be used much like a frisbee grenade, WITH NO COOKING NECESSARY. I guess according to you, we should nerf nova knives too: cuz it what unimaginable world would a set of knives deal more damage than a futuristic explosive device. If you have the skill to cook and place the grenade properly, in effect you earned that kill. If you are an idiot that gets killed by noob nades, go back to academy. YOU CAN HEAR SOMEONE COOKING THEM, AND SEE THEM THROWN, AND HEAR THEM HIT THE GROUND. I'm going with a classic quote on this one: "WORKING AS INTENDED" That quote was more of a jab at forum activity, don't take it out of context. Grenades in battlefield are DEADLY. They WILL kill you. To balance it, they are made so that you can't cook them and throw insta kills all over the place. If you want something like that, they let you use the noob tube. I was fine with this. I also detailed how they were mainly used as utility or room clearer (Removing people from cover or forcing them to back away from that corner they are camping). I LIKE grenades like this. RE's need a fix. Frisbee does need to stop, and I agree with it. They are easy to detect via scanning and eyes, but pack a significant punch, just like C4 in Battlefield. Remove throwing, and I will consider RE's fixed. Retain throwing for packed RE's, solely for anti-vehicle applications. Nova Knife argument is dumb. They have high damage due to balance. High Risk, High Reward. While RE's are much easier to use, and pack similar damage, they also aren't reusable like knives, nor as easy to use in the heat of the moment (With previously mentioned changes, you won't be able to throw one down willy nilly). Not denying that cooking nades take skill to use and implement correctly. I can appreciate a good throw when I see one (Or on the receiving end). However, I do believe that they as a whole are enroaching on the Mass Driver. With so many nanohives available, why use an MD? Cores deal a good 3-4 shots of damage with a single quick throw. If you want the ability to routinely deal with targets around corners, I think that people should use the mass driver to do so, rather than shoehorning the grenade into that tool. You get my drift Shep? Currently listening to: Max Anarchy OST Old School Scout, watch out for the knives
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 1176	Posted - 2015.05.05 21:21:00 - [148] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Okay, I uploaded video that touches the subject. Dust 514: Pub#249 L Camping the depot, tight logitrain Following points can be seen there: - nade resupply is too easy (best fix still the resupply rate/speed) - nade spamming is possible due to above - cooking is powerful - cooking requires dexterity and some planning - nades work against blobs and can be used to kill logitrains ( A longish video, but it is non-stop action straight from the beginning! Explosions everywhere. I was primarying as a rep logi (rare thing for me as I usually suck at it) but somehow I ended up with top kills. Well not somehow, 90% or so kills were nade kills... =P ) ****ing m6 lol
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1995	Posted - 2015.05.05 23:32:00 - [149] - Quote Happy Violentime wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Okay, I uploaded video that touches the subject. Dust 514: Pub#249 L Camping the depot, tight logitrain ) ****ing m6 lol Dat M6 indeed, luckily he has not seen this video, he would BURST with self-endulgence, the d-wad. Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9961	Posted - 2015.05.06 16:48:00 - [150] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Shepherd Grey wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Which means that 50% of the Dust forums agree with him! Bro, I KNOW you did not just say let's make nades like bf4. Talk about the dumbest set up, mechanics, execution, philosophy E.V.E.R. We should, however, have a tag collection system like bf4 Aggro, lawl. How is isk relevant to philosophical opinions on game mechanics. Separate topic entirely. How are nades "infinitely better than RE's". Again, back to the argument. Nades must be cooked and lobbed with coordination of timing and physics under a live fire situation - one that leaves you completely and utterly exposed to enemy combat. RE's are a place and forget style, no cooking necessary. Albeit they can ALSO be used much like a frisbee grenade, WITH NO COOKING NECESSARY. I guess according to you, we should nerf nova knives too: cuz it what unimaginable world would a set of knives deal more damage than a futuristic explosive device. If you have the skill to cook and place the grenade properly, in effect you earned that kill. If you are an idiot that gets killed by noob nades, go back to academy. YOU CAN HEAR SOMEONE COOKING THEM, AND SEE THEM THROWN, AND HEAR THEM HIT THE GROUND. I'm going with a classic quote on this one: "WORKING AS INTENDED" That quote was more of a jab at forum activity, don't take it out of context. Grenades in battlefield are DEADLY. They WILL kill you. To balance it, they are made so that you can't cook them and throw insta kills all over the place. If you want something like that, they let you use the noob tube. I was fine with this. I also detailed how they were mainly used as utility or room clearer (Removing people from cover or forcing them to back away from that corner they are camping). I LIKE grenades like this. RE's need a fix. Frisbee does need to stop, and I agree with it. They are easy to detect via scanning and eyes, but pack a significant punch, just like C4 in Battlefield. Remove throwing, and I will consider RE's fixed. Retain throwing for packed RE's, solely for anti-vehicle applications. Nova Knife argument is dumb. They have high damage due to balance. High Risk, High Reward. While RE's are much easier to use, and pack similar damage, they also aren't reusable like knives, nor as easy to use in the heat of the moment (With previously mentioned changes, you won't be able to throw one down willy nilly). Not denying that cooking nades take skill to use and implement correctly. I can appreciate a good throw when I see one (Or on the receiving end). However, I do believe that they as a whole are enroaching on the Mass Driver. With so many nanohives available, why use an MD? Cores deal a good 3-4 shots of damage with a single quick throw. If you want the ability to routinely deal with targets around corners, I think that people should use the mass driver to do so, rather than shoehorning the grenade into that tool. You get my drift Shep? What this guy said. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go

Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5172	Posted - 2015.05.14 22:54:00 - [151] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: I've brought this up many times and i'll say it here again. Locus nades just need 2 types...sleek and packed. The core gives you enough of the best of both worlds that it ends up being a little 2 easy to deliver that level of damage. You need to change locus nades so that at basic, advanced and proto there is a packed variant with low radius but high damage and the sleek version which would have low damage (look at the sleek and scale it) but have a large radius. And long before you fix this you need to fix RE's. RE's as a much larger 'copout' than locus do to the MASSIVE dps increase and it takes a comparable amount of time to arm to the grenade's 'cook' Furthermore you get 2 nades...but up to 4 carried RE's. That'd be fine, but 600 damage over 7.2m is just insane for something that can be replenished by nanohives. I'd even argue that they're more so a problem because of the ability to replenish them with nanohives whereas the Remote Explosives cannot be replenished, save for respawning or going to a supply depot. I'm glad you can get behind these changes. Now push my agenda with your forum awesomeness. Founder & CEO of Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Email: Zatara.Forever@gmail official pawn of ArkenaKirkMerc
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 10208	Posted - 2015.05.15 00:52:00 - [152] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: I've brought this up many times and i'll say it here again. Locus nades just need 2 types...sleek and packed. The core gives you enough of the best of both worlds that it ends up being a little 2 easy to deliver that level of damage. You need to change locus nades so that at basic, advanced and proto there is a packed variant with low radius but high damage and the sleek version which would have low damage (look at the sleek and scale it) but have a large radius. And long before you fix this you need to fix RE's. RE's as a much larger 'copout' than locus do to the MASSIVE dps increase and it takes a comparable amount of time to arm to the grenade's 'cook' Furthermore you get 2 nades...but up to 4 carried RE's. That'd be fine, but 600 damage over 7.2m is just insane for something that can be replenished by nanohives. I'd even argue that they're more so a problem because of the ability to replenish them with nanohives whereas the Remote Explosives cannot be replenished, save for respawning or going to a supply depot. I'm glad you can get behind these changes. Now push my agenda with your forum awesomeness. If I pushed your agenda in any spectrum it would only garner hatred for everything about you because I am probably in the Top 10 Most Hated people on the forums. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!


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