DUST Search - Let's Talk about the Core Locus Grenade

Himiko Kuronaga wrote:

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Cook for two seconds, instant or near kill. Things do way too much damage for the ability to simply cook and collect bacon over a 7.2m radius. To be clear, the effective range of this thing is larger then than of the Shotgun's optimal range. For 720 damage to armor you effectively negate the entire defense of most suits just by holding down the button for a few seconds.

IMO, grenade shouldn't be the first thing you resort to when in an engagement. Softening targets is one thing but killing multiple targets outright is a little ridiculous. For such a low-skill weapon, it's power needs to be scaled down rather dramatically. It's not like placing a well-aimed PLC shot or Forge-gun round (who's splash damage is lower, still) and I'd even argue that placing Mass Driver rounds on target takes more skill than just holding down the button and vaguely facing the enemy's direction.

Proposal (any number of these will work):

- Nerf the damage so that it's used as a proper splash damage weapon and not a way to cop-out of the shooter game.
- Remove it from the Nanohives' restock capability; you should only be able to get them from supply depots.
- Increase the PG/CPU so it has the costs of a primary weapon, since it basically is at this point.

(Do me a solid and don't bring up the Flux Grenade. That's for a different thread.)

Cores were fine. Then Rattati buffed nanohives and they became abusable.

Everyone saw it coming, no one said anything.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
LUGMOS Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 3841	Posted - 2015.05.02 02:03:00 - [31] - Quote Her Chosen wrote: All explosives need to be nerfed Correction: Core locus and remote explosive. Have you ever tried using a standard locus effectively? What about a mass driver? They really don't hit very hard and have terrible RoF. Sniper Rifles are for Nitrogenous Dioxide Borons First to PM me with common name wins (no Hyansaru, u win too much ;P)

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 21660	Posted - 2015.05.02 02:07:00 - [32] - Quote I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

One Eyed King Nos Nothi 9905	Posted - 2015.05.02 02:08:00 - [33] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. Prefer throw distance reduction to other RE changes. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8338	Posted - 2015.05.02 02:22:00 - [34] - Quote And the crybabying about grenades that has been going since beta continues apace I see. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1972	Posted - 2015.05.02 02:34:00 - [35] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Cook for two seconds, instant or near kill. Things do way too much damage for the ability to simply cook and collect bacon over a 7.2m radius. To be clear, the effective range of this thing is larger then than of the Shotgun's optimal range. For 720 damage to armor you effectively negate the entire defense of most suits just by holding down the button for a few seconds. IMO, grenade shouldn't be the first thing you resort to when in an engagement. Softening targets is one thing but killing multiple targets outright is a little ridiculous. For such a low-skill weapon, it's power needs to be scaled down rather dramatically. It's not like placing a well-aimed PLC shot or Forge-gun round (who's splash damage is lower, still) and I'd even argue that placing Mass Driver rounds on target takes more skill than just holding down the button and vaguely facing the enemy's direction. Proposal (any number of these will work): - Nerf the damage so that it's used as a proper splash damage weapon and not a way to cop-out of the shooter game. - Remove it from the Nanohives' restock capability; you should only be able to get them from supply depots. - Increase the PG/CPU so it has the costs of a primary weapon, since it basically is at this point. (Do me a solid and don't bring up the Flux Grenade. That's for a different thread.) Cooked nades are powerful, yes, maybe too powerful. But it is dead wrong to say they are a low skill weapon. Saying that means that the saying person is distorting the facts to their cause. Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1972	Posted - 2015.05.02 02:37:00 - [36] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Cook for two seconds, instant or near kill. Things do way too much damage for the ability to simply cook and collect bacon over a 7.2m radius. To be clear, the effective range of this thing is larger then than of the Shotgun's optimal range. For 720 damage to armor you effectively negate the entire defense of most suits just by holding down the button for a few seconds. IMO, grenade shouldn't be the first thing you resort to when in an engagement. Softening targets is one thing but killing multiple targets outright is a little ridiculous. For such a low-skill weapon, it's power needs to be scaled down rather dramatically. It's not like placing a well-aimed PLC shot or Forge-gun round (who's splash damage is lower, still) and I'd even argue that placing Mass Driver rounds on target takes more skill than just holding down the button and vaguely facing the enemy's direction. Proposal (any number of these will work): - Nerf the damage so that it's used as a proper splash damage weapon and not a way to cop-out of the shooter game. - Remove it from the Nanohives' restock capability; you should only be able to get them from supply depots. - Increase the PG/CPU so it has the costs of a primary weapon, since it basically is at this point. (Do me a solid and don't bring up the Flux Grenade. That's for a different thread.) Cores were fine. Then Rattati buffed nanohives and they became abusable. Everyone saw it coming, no one said anything. I beg your pardon...?!?!? Some stuff said: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2661722#post2661722 Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
Forced Death Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 755	Posted - 2015.05.02 02:42:00 - [37] - Quote I'm sitting here waiting for my SP to collect to earn advanced locus nades. These 300 damage ones are sh1te compared to cores STD Active Scanner with Scan Profile of 46db too OP
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1972	Posted - 2015.05.02 02:46:00 - [38] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: I once complained about op pro tanks and I will tell you what one person posted but for the pro nade. The pro nade need more skill point to use. Normally it takes like 350.000 sp to skill to pro weapons. The pro nades take 650.000. It is good just as it is. Not to mention its 14.000 ISk per nade, compared to the 600 for std NADES. Just because they cost more doent mean they should be so much better than adv and std. Yes they should be good but not to the point where the other 2 are pointless to use. ^ THIS is the very essence of good game design! Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1973	Posted - 2015.05.02 02:52:00 - [39] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. I disagree on some of those points =P Nades haven't been UP pretty much never. They should be powerful, no changes required except some sort of tiericide or rather tiertunedown. The original poster is correct that cooked nades are very very good and able to OHK many suits - according to my experience nades do have headshot ability even though there's no message. How else 720+ HP suit could be OHK'd?? Different topic but I gotta mention as early as possible: REs do not need throw distance nerf, they need activation timer nerf (or rather to make sure the announced 5+ s timer would work as listed on the fall of 2014) Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
Knightshade Belladonna Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 1280	Posted - 2015.05.02 02:56:00 - [40] - Quote I know the proto has more blast radius... but here is what confuses me. Why can I throw any other grenade , within what looks like well within blast radius and it don't do jack unless they stepping on it. I throw a locus blindly , and that thing kills anytyhing in viewing distance lol. I'd use the hell out of them on every suit if it wasn't for the high cost compared to the m-1s..which leads me to believe they know it's OP as hell, and trying to keep it out of some hands. /shrug

Knightshade Belladonna Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 1282	Posted - 2015.05.02 03:01:00 - [41] - Quote Her Chosen wrote: The problem lies in explosives all together... What's the point of having all this HP if explosives can OHK it? It also has splash radius, which lessens skill. It also terminates the clone with no effort needed by the enemy. All explosives need to be nerfed. Less damage, and smaller blast radius. And perhaps allowing splash kills to be revived. splash kill revival would be nice , agreed
Diablo Gamekeeper Escrow Removal and Acquisition 189	Posted - 2015.05.02 03:24:00 - [42] - Quote you know, core nade spam wasn't ever really a problem for me. It will be over soon, and when the Dust settles, no one will be left playing.
Archduke Ferd1nand Nos Nothi 408	Posted - 2015.05.02 03:54:00 - [43] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. Dont nerf me bro BRB, looking for socks PSN: tommygunboy2080 I shit shotgun shells and piss Remote Explosives
DUST Fiend 16830	Posted - 2015.05.02 03:56:00 - [44] - Quote I doubt they'd ever nerf the crutch. Some people want them, some people need them, some people avoid them like the plague. Is what it is. *"My bitter is showing. I must retreat to the berry patch."* STUFF
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5862	Posted - 2015.05.02 03:57:00 - [45] - Quote Some people complained about nades? Didn't complain loud enough then. All I heard was whine whine vehicles whine whine heavies whine whine scouts whine whine SCR. Usually banned for being too awesome.
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 645	Posted - 2015.05.02 05:00:00 - [46] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Cook for two seconds, instant or near kill. Things do way too much damage for the ability to simply cook and collect bacon over a 7.2m radius. To be clear, the effective range of this thing is larger then than of the Shotgun's optimal range. For 720 damage to armor you effectively negate the entire defense of most suits just by holding down the button for a few seconds. IMO, grenade shouldn't be the first thing you resort to when in an engagement. Softening targets is one thing but killing multiple targets outright is a little ridiculous. For such a low-skill weapon, it's power needs to be scaled down rather dramatically. It's not like placing a well-aimed PLC shot or Forge-gun round (who's splash damage is lower, still) and I'd even argue that placing Mass Driver rounds on target takes more skill than just holding down the button and vaguely facing the enemy's direction. Proposal (any number of these will work): - Nerf the damage so that it's used as a proper splash damage weapon and not a way to cop-out of the shooter game. - Remove it from the Nanohives' restock capability; you should only be able to get them from supply depots. - Increase the PG/CPU so it has the costs of a primary weapon, since it basically is at this point. (Do me a solid and don't bring up the Flux Grenade. That's for a different thread.) Grenades require a sacrifice of time, and take timing to pull off correctly, in addition the enemy can hear you pull the pin, which allows them to run into your face or run for cover, both of which can end up costing you a grenade. Characterizing them as a no skill weapon is not really helpful, especially since they easily take more skill than any weapon in dust aside from maybe long range mass driver kills. I would maybe agree with your second and third suggestions though, as it is very easy to have games that entirely revolve around remote/core grenade spam to steamroll your team (hi ambush explosive steamroller squads!)
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 645	Posted - 2015.05.02 05:10:00 - [47] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Banjo Robertson wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I think we should flatten grenade damage and cook-times and have blast radius as the meta gain. That could work, or make the splash radius the same across all tiers and only change the damage. As the damage on the core wouldn't be so bad if it also didn't have such a huge radius. Or make damage and blast radius flat across all tiers and only change the number of grenades you carry by tier. IMHO, flatten blast radius and cook time and have damage be what increases. However, I find it amusing that people are complaining about grenades doing less than half the damage of REs when REs can't be thrown even half as far as grenades. Grenades are fine, buff REs. And you cant have grenades sit in a doorway until someone comes along, and choose the exact moment to set them off.
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 309	Posted - 2015.05.02 05:30:00 - [48] - Quote JL3Eleven wrote: Core nades are fine. It's the RE's that need fixing. Perhaps, GASP they BOTH need a look at. Ebola makes me feel all warm and squishy inside.
Kuruld Sengar Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 322	Posted - 2015.05.02 05:31:00 - [49] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: JL3Eleven wrote: Core nades are fine. It's the RE's that need fixing. Na, core nades barely make a dent on a fully tanked out heavy. Everyone run heavies is not a solution. Core nades are ridiculous at the moment. Prototype suits can be killed instantly as medium and light, while medium can survive if tanked over 1k hp. Barely. They wouldn't be too bad but I have sen them do damage in the 900 range, which far exceeds the 600 advertised. No weapon that is that spammable should be able to instantly kill. Especially since nanohives seem to be on most suits nowadays.
Seed Dren Helix Order Learning Alliance 190	Posted - 2015.05.02 05:34:00 - [50] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Some people complained about nades? Didn't complain loud enough then. All I heard was whine whine vehicles whine whine heavies whine whine scouts whine whine SCR. For somebody that complains that people cannot have smart conversations, that sure didn't sound like a very smart argument. Amarr assualt + shotgun + hellfire= illuminati confirmed

Demandred Moores Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 53	Posted - 2015.05.02 08:25:00 - [51] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. I disagree on some of those points =P Nades haven't been UP pretty much never. They should be powerful, no changes required except some sort of tiericide or rather tiertunedown. The original poster is correct that cooked nades are very very good and able to OHK many suits - according to my experience nades do have headshot ability even though there's no message. How else 720+ HP suit could be OHK'd?? Different topic but I gotta mention as early as possible: REs do not need throw distance nerf, they need activation timer nerf (or rather to make sure the announced 5+ s timer would work as listed on the fall of 2014) They don't have a head shot bonus or it would always kill you cause of the blast radius lol. They do more to armour less to shields what you are seeing is the armour tanked suit getting nuked because he wasn't aware of the situation.this is a prime example of how ppl that don't understand the game come on the forums and try to complain while the vast majority enjoy the game and remain silent. Why should a flux take all of a calidari's shield and leave him with effectively no hp and a core not do massive armour damage? Run more shields it will eat so much of the grenades damage you would be surprised. They are not op you just haven't adapted to a play style you don't like. Basic flux is more op than a core. And don't tell me they don't kill so they aren't I run almost every suit at proto and max vehicles. Flux might as well kill a calidari and doubles as an AV weapon. Try to core spam me and see how op you are my friend. I will melt you.
JAKE REDBLOOD Dead Man's Game RUST415 67	Posted - 2015.05.02 08:37:00 - [52] - Quote I don't think there's any problem with the core locus grenades... After all... they are grenades! My YouTube Channel
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game RUST415 576	Posted - 2015.05.02 08:50:00 - [53] - Quote JAKE REDBLOOD wrote: I don't think there's any problem with the core locus grenades... After all... they are grenades! Exactly. In about every single fps, grenades can OS your enemies. In dust, the std and adv cant kill even a militia suit, only the proto one is effective. And it doesn't one shot everything still! (A heavy will just laugh at nades). I dont know how can people complain about that. I see close to nobody killing people with nades in battle (I'm usually the only one), and it does take skill to master the cook mechanic and to throw them right. The few people I see throwing locus grenades are so predictable, it's ridiculous. Everyone's using flux and AV because they think locus sucks, and you want to nerf them? If anything, locus grenades need a buff more than a nerf. Dont run a scout or a light assault into a grenade explosion, it will help. Fix the game before trying to add anything else. (Hint: hit detection, lags, glitches,.. you've got some work :) )
Demandred Moores Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 55	Posted - 2015.05.02 08:58:00 - [54] - Quote Sequal's Back wrote: JAKE REDBLOOD wrote: I don't think there's any problem with the core locus grenades... After all... they are grenades! Exactly. In about every single fps, grenades can OS your enemies. In dust, the std and adv cant kill even a militia suit, only the proto one is effective. And it doesn't one shot everything still! (A heavy will just laugh at nades). I dont know how can people complain about that. I see close to nobody killing people with nades in battle (I'm usually the only one), and it does take skill to master the cook mechanic and to throw them right. The few people I see throwing locus grenades are so predictable, it's ridiculous. Everyone's using flux and AV because they think locus sucks, and you want to nerf them? If anything, locus grenades need a buff more than a nerf. Dont run a scout or a light assault into a grenade explosion, it will help. Cores are fine the others are a bit underpowered MAYBE and heavies shrugging then off is part of their bonus but it is a nice way to stay that fight the insurance alpha damage is still very helpful against their massive alpha and sustained dps.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8340	Posted - 2015.05.02 09:41:00 - [55] - Quote The state of hrenades is pathetic and useless. The cries of no skill are a mating call for those lacking situational awareness. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 4548	Posted - 2015.05.02 09:45:00 - [56] - Quote Maybe core locuse one shot, but STD locus are completely trash, M1 are in a good spot more or less. STD locus need some love, core locus are the crutch of the so called pro players, but i don't think they are a real problem. Shaman's Shack - A place to trade
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8340	Posted - 2015.05.02 09:49:00 - [57] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Maybe core locuse one shot, but STD locus are completely trash, M1 are in a good spot more or less. STD locus need some love, core locus are the crutch of the so called pro players, but i don't think they are a real problem. Considering to cook them properly you have to make yourself vulnerable to incoming fire for two seconds? That's about 0.7 seconds longer than it takes to get killed with a rifle. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9908	Posted - 2015.05.02 10:10:00 - [58] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. I disagree on some of those points =P Nades haven't been UP pretty much never. They should be powerful, no changes required except some sort of tiericide or rather tiertunedown. The original poster is correct that cooked nades are very very good and able to OHK many suits - according to my experience nades do have headshot ability even though there's no message. How else 720+ HP suit could be OHK'd?? Different topic but I gotta mention as early as possible: REs do not need throw distance nerf, they need activation timer nerf (or rather to make sure the announced 5+ s timer would work as listed on the fall of 2014) I've noticed that as well. CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. Lemme try and test out what Korsiini-tero is referring to before we set anything in stone. I want to see if I can maybe narrow down a bug or something - or maybe headshot damage is intentional and is just way too easy to pull off. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9908	Posted - 2015.05.02 10:12:00 - [59] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The state of hrenades is pathetic and useless. The cries of no skill are a mating call for those lacking situational awareness. You strafe, hold down a button for two seconds, get an instant kill. I have to hold target for the duration of those two seconds, and hope that hit detection is favorable enough for me to put enough rounds on target that you die before you throw the grenade (which will likely happen anyway as you fall to the ground, dead). You say it's a mating call for those lacking situational awareness? I say it's too easy of a gimmick kill that requires less skill than it takes to stay on target for the duration. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
noob cavman Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 2403	Posted - 2015.05.02 10:14:00 - [60] - Quote Cooked cores are the ultimate way to deal with jumpers I want to be a caveman! psn: marko_blues Gö+GöüGö+ n+¦pâ+(`-ö´)n+ën+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Full steam ahead into the enemies booty yarrr.



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