DUST Search - Let's Talk about the Core Locus Grenade

xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx wrote:

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Cook for two seconds, instant or near kill. Things do way too much damage for the ability to simply cook and collect bacon over a 7.2m radius. To be clear, the effective range of this thing is larger then than of the Shotgun's optimal range. For 720 damage to armor you effectively negate the entire defense of most suits just by holding down the button for a few seconds.

IMO, grenade shouldn't be the first thing you resort to when in an engagement. Softening targets is one thing but killing multiple targets outright is a little ridiculous. For such a low-skill weapon, it's power needs to be scaled down rather dramatically. It's not like placing a well-aimed PLC shot or Forge-gun round (who's splash damage is lower, still) and I'd even argue that placing Mass Driver rounds on target takes more skill than just holding down the button and vaguely facing the enemy's direction.

Proposal (any number of these will work):

- Nerf the damage so that it's used as a proper splash damage weapon and not a way to cop-out of the shooter game.
- Remove it from the Nanohives' restock capability; you should only be able to get them from supply depots.
- Increase the PG/CPU so it has the costs of a primary weapon, since it basically is at this point.

(Do me a solid and don't bring up the Flux Grenade. That's for a different thread.)

Your post is coming off more of a personal problem than one that would do well to serve all who use it. It's a grenade yo... it's suppose to kill and mutilate. It's not a tennis ball Cool

You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go

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Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9918	Posted - 2015.05.03 01:42:00 - [91] - Quote Sequal's Back wrote: You usually make threads much more elaborated than "It killed me, nerf it" Aeon. You disappoint me.. While someone is cooking its grenade, you can shoot him down. And if you see him cooking it, you can avoid it easily. The damage falloff is huge and cores dont deal anything if they're not in a max 3m radius from their target. Quit whining. \ get bent You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8355	Posted - 2015.05.03 01:48:00 - [92] - Quote The only nerf geenades ever needed was the removal of the ability to replenish them with a nanohive. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Dreis ShadowWeaver 0uter.Heaven Back and Forth 3378	Posted - 2015.05.03 02:46:00 - [93] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: I'd even argue that they're more so a problem because of the ability to replenish them with nanohives whereas the Remote Explosives cannot be replenished, save for respawning or going to a supply depot. Are you 100% sure of this? I can recall several times when Nanohives have resupplied my Remote Explosives. Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel My Minja Blog Day 16/30 exclusively Minja
Shepherd Grey Capital Acquisitions LLC 492	Posted - 2015.05.03 03:12:00 - [94] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Shepherd Grey wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Dude if you're using Grenades on a sentinel you're doing something extremely wrong. Um, I don't believe I said sentinels using them, albeit they actually are pretty effective and I DO utilize them when in my cal heavy (of course, I'm scrub heavy). Na, I said ASSAULTS using them. O.o; what game are you playing that someone using an HMG is in anything other than a sentinel please re-read my op. sigh
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9920	Posted - 2015.05.03 03:15:00 - [95] - Quote Shepherd Grey wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Shepherd Grey wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Dude if you're using Grenades on a sentinel you're doing something extremely wrong. Um, I don't believe I said sentinels using them, albeit they actually are pretty effective and I DO utilize them when in my cal heavy (of course, I'm scrub heavy). Na, I said ASSAULTS using them. O.o; what game are you playing that someone using an HMG is in anything other than a sentinel please re-read my op. sigh Take your own advice: "Nades are an assault's only equalizer against an HMG that has an effective range of 40m or more with twice as much eHP. " You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Dreis ShadowWeaver 0uter.Heaven Back and Forth 3379	Posted - 2015.05.03 03:25:00 - [96] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Shepherd Grey wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Shepherd Grey wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Dude if you're using Grenades on a sentinel you're doing something extremely wrong. Um, I don't believe I said sentinels using them, albeit they actually are pretty effective and I DO utilize them when in my cal heavy (of course, I'm scrub heavy). Na, I said ASSAULTS using them. O.o; what game are you playing that someone using an HMG is in anything other than a sentinel please re-read my op. sigh Take your own advice: "Nades are an assault's only equalizer against an HMG that has an effective range of 40m or more with twice as much eHP. " When you said 'Dude if you're using Grenades on a sentinel you're doing something extremely wrong.', did you mean 'on' in the same sense as 'against'? Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel My Minja Blog Day 16/30 exclusively Minja
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8358	Posted - 2015.05.03 03:31:00 - [97] - Quote Damage versus a sentinel is damage vs a sentinel. Most sentinels are too stupid to realize that grenades still actually do damage. Just because a 600-700 dMage core gets dropped to what, 450? That's 450 damage that most fatties won't bother dodging. I dodge them out of habit, because calsent/flux There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Demandred Moores Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 57	Posted - 2015.05.03 04:45:00 - [98] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: I've brought this up many times and i'll say it here again. Locus nades just need 2 types...sleek and packed. The core gives you enough of the best of both worlds that it ends up being a little 2 easy to deliver that level of damage. You need to change locus nades so that at basic, advanced and proto there is a packed variant with low radius but high damage and the sleek version which would have low damage (look at the sleek and scale it) but have a large radius. And long before you fix this you need to fix RE's. RE's as a much larger 'copout' than locus do to the MASSIVE dps increase and it takes a comparable amount of time to arm to the grenade's 'cook' Furthermore you get 2 nades...but up to 4 carried RE's. That'd be fine, but 600 damage over 7.2m is just insane for something that can be replenished by nanohives. I'd even argue that they're more so a problem because of the ability to replenish them with nanohives whereas the Remote Explosives cannot be replenished, save for respawning or going to a supply depot. re's can be re supplied by hives....
Aggrohim Escrow Removal and Acquisition 92	Posted - 2015.05.03 05:57:00 - [99] - Quote Shepherd Grey wrote: No need to read, nerfing nades is simply ridiculous. The act of cooking makes you completely vulnerable, you only carry 2 nades at a time anyway, cooking/tossing takes aLOT more skill than RE's which do significantly more damage across a wider radius and can be detonated at will. Nades are an assault's only equalizer against an HMG that has an effective range of 40m or more with twice as much eHP. Gives assaults a fighting chance against 11m/s scouts and min assault SG's that can 1 shot you. Could go on and on. It is an EXPLOSIVE. Name one other FPS where nades ARE NOT 1 hitters? At least in Dust you might live. Says the Proto Stomper with unlimited money and isk. Ok so here yea Core nades are OP atm and that's all there is too it. Spam them and you get a name like Globfather of Outer Heaven. Dust isn't like most Shooter games. It takes a lot longer to kill and nades shouldn't be the goto for Proto Stompers in pubs in every fight. In most other games it is a reaction shooter so people are dying instantly anyhow and 2v1s and 3v1s are a lot easier to get through. It Dust you have to be strategic and stick closer to your team to take a point. There shouldn't be 1 thing that kills a 4 suites attacking a point or defending a point , that includes REs . So yes nades and REs need a nerfing ,but on the other hand there is nothing left to kill 3-4 Proto heavies defending a closed point .That's the only problem That I see wit nerfing held explosives is the fact that 3 Heavys wit a logi or 2 can take a point and hold it against twice it's numbers of Assaults. So where does that leave us? Leave explosive dmg where it is and buff Bsc and Adv health levels to be more on par with Proto. In which case I think would help all around By decreasing the number of games that Proto Stomps dominate the whole game and increase the amount of kills overall for new players. The Proto should always have an advantage but shouldn't be able to take on whole squads on bsc gear -CEO of -ERA- -Corp Count:20
bathtubist TRUE SAVAGES Learning Alliance 100	Posted - 2015.05.03 07:10:00 - [100] - Quote NERF THE ******* DUCKING TRUCKING RE"S RE's RE's RE"s RE's RE's NERF THE RE'S Gallente logi ftw

CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3434	Posted - 2015.05.03 10:50:00 - [101] - Quote Thing I hate most about Core nades is that because I tend to be greedy and speed stack most my suits.... none of them have enough HP to survive a frag.... Totally accept that this is my play style decision, still doesn't change the fact that I hate and fear a good fragger in game.... Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why hide a solution under frothy pile of derpa? SCV Ready!
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9922	Posted - 2015.05.03 11:08:00 - [102] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Thing I hate most about Core nades is that because I tend to be greedy and speed stack most my suits.... none of them have enough HP to survive a frag.... Totally accept that this is my play style decision, still doesn't change the fact that I hate and fear a good fragger in game.... Eh, give it a bit, someone will come in here saying that Grenades don't need to be nerfed and that armor just needs to be nerfed. They'll say armor takes up 'x' amount of the market orders and because they're so powerful, that if they get nerfed, grenades will suddenly become balanced due to a magical jesus change. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9922	Posted - 2015.05.03 11:12:00 - [103] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: I've brought this up many times and i'll say it here again. Locus nades just need 2 types...sleek and packed. The core gives you enough of the best of both worlds that it ends up being a little 2 easy to deliver that level of damage. You need to change locus nades so that at basic, advanced and proto there is a packed variant with low radius but high damage and the sleek version which would have low damage (look at the sleek and scale it) but have a large radius. And long before you fix this you need to fix RE's. RE's as a much larger 'copout' than locus do to the MASSIVE dps increase and it takes a comparable amount of time to arm to the grenade's 'cook' Furthermore you get 2 nades...but up to 4 carried RE's. That'd be fine, but 600 damage over 7.2m is just insane for something that can be replenished by nanohives. I'd even argue that they're more so a problem because of the ability to replenish them with nanohives whereas the Remote Explosives cannot be replenished, save for respawning or going to a supply depot. re's can be re supplied by hives.... Well, if that's true, it's news to me. Used to not be that way and it goes to show how much I use them (Core Locus Grenades are infinitely better, IMO). You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
saxonmish T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 1114	Posted - 2015.05.03 11:15:00 - [104] - Quote Your right they do need to be buffed, they cant even 1 shot a heavy. i mean what sort of highly modified space grenade is this jees. I vote against a core locus nerf because it will just turn into what the 'Thukker Grenade' got, and that got Thukked up. Grenades are my favourite weapon on this game, i say this because there is nothing more appealing than cooking and throwing your grenade perfectly over a wall and into someone's face. No Nerf! SAXON ON A MISH - My Youtube Channel :)
4lbert Wesker Mithril Forge E-R-A 186	Posted - 2015.05.03 11:17:00 - [105] - Quote I dunno man.I get killed by nade maybe once or twice in a week.Core nade may have big damage but you can evade it in one second.Not a problem to me.Much bigger problem is RE where people throw it like a frisbee. Public skirmish = camping games
saxonmish T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 1114	Posted - 2015.05.03 11:30:00 - [106] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Shepherd Grey wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Dude if you're using Grenades on a sentinel you're doing something extremely wrong. Um, I don't believe I said sentinels using them, albeit they actually are pretty effective and I DO utilize them when in my cal heavy (of course, I'm scrub heavy). Na, I said ASSAULTS using them. O.o; what game are you playing that someone using an HMG is in anything other than a sentinel can you even read XD omfg you misread both of his post's lawl SAXON ON A MISH - My Youtube Channel :)
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9922	Posted - 2015.05.03 11:42:00 - [107] - Quote saxonmish wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Shepherd Grey wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Dude if you're using Grenades on a sentinel you're doing something extremely wrong. Um, I don't believe I said sentinels using them, albeit they actually are pretty effective and I DO utilize them when in my cal heavy (of course, I'm scrub heavy). Na, I said ASSAULTS using them. O.o; what game are you playing that someone using an HMG is in anything other than a sentinel can you even read XD omfg you misread both of his post's lawl "Nades are an assault's only equalizer against an HMG " How the hell can that be misread? Explain it to me. Word for word. Go. Do it. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3434	Posted - 2015.05.03 12:26:00 - [108] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: saxonmish wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Shepherd Grey wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Dude if you're using Grenades on a sentinel you're doing something extremely wrong. Um, I don't believe I said sentinels using them, albeit they actually are pretty effective and I DO utilize them when in my cal heavy (of course, I'm scrub heavy). Na, I said ASSAULTS using them. O.o; what game are you playing that someone using an HMG is in anything other than a sentinel can you even read XD omfg you misread both of his post's lawl "Nades are an assault's only equalizer against an HMG " How the hell can that be misread? Explain it to me. Word for word. Go. Do it. I believe they are misreading you Aeon, you are basically saying if you are close enough to use nades against a HMG'er then things are pretty bad, why not attack them at range (if possible) right? To that I would argue a small point that we cannot forget however..... some of the levels / objective locations do not allow for any long range shooting. But I agree with you otherwise. Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why hide a solution under frothy pile of derpa? SCV Ready!
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1980	Posted - 2015.05.03 15:03:00 - [109] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The only nerf geenades ever needed was the removal of the ability to replenish them with a nanohive. Or rather make sure the resupply rate - the time - gets increased (nerfed). 20s standing on a hive is an eternity. That would also make sure everyone would get primary ammo before the logibro's hive is being gulped by nades. Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
Demandred Moores Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 58	Posted - 2015.05.03 18:09:00 - [110] - Quote Agreed, the op isn't in how it works but how spamable they are I can agree to that at least. The grenade does it's job, but the resupply rate makes them abuseble with 6 hives.

KILL3R H3LLH0UND New Eden's Black Market 260	Posted - 2015.05.03 18:54:00 - [111] - Quote OR.... do what they did in battlefield 4... yount cook a nade. you hit r2 and you have 0.4 sec to pull the pin and throw it. Ex-Master Scout Trainer, been falling in love with my Minja again. I <3 my Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ
4lbert Wesker Mithril Forge E-R-A 188	Posted - 2015.05.03 20:24:00 - [112] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: Agreed, the op isn't in how it works but how spamable they are I can agree to that at least. The grenade does it's job, but the resupply rate makes them abuseble with 6 hives. Imagine caldari logi + 3 nanohives + core nades Public skirmish = camping games
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10995	Posted - 2015.05.03 22:07:00 - [113] - Quote KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote: OR.... do what they did in battlefield 4... yount cook a nade. you hit r2 and you have 0.4 sec to pull the pin and throw it. Amen. In Battlefield, grenades are used to flush people out of spots they are sitting in. Grenade comes in, they have a choice. Try and eat the grenade and hope they live, or leave cover. Most people choose the second, and have to try to run through enemy fire. I like it this way. You can't just go "Oh, he's right behind there. Say hello to my pocket grenade launcher", and then chuck a cooked nade on his head. Buff contact nades, and then remove cooking on the other ones. You want instant explosion? Use a contact; you have very high damage and have severely reduced splash radius. You want to flush people out? Use a normal nade;You can't cook, but you have high damage and range. Then we can buff the sleek nade and give them HUGE range but very low splash damage. Think of them as equipment killers, toss very far onto roofs and watch the EQ pop. This goes for fluxes too. Contact fluxes would be really cool to see. Imagine a super high damage flux nade that explodes on contact. Great for Cal Heavies or Tanks (Still has VERY small radius). Just my thoughts on the matter. Currently listening to: Max Anarchy OST Old School Scout, watch out for the knives
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1331	Posted - 2015.05.03 22:15:00 - [114] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. Changing the distance on the RE is not going to do anything. People will still cry "frisbee". The ones who complain usually have the worst situational awareness. A scout running directly at them with no gun in hand, doesn't register as an explosive until these guys die from it. Then they complain that it was a "frisbee" even though the user was close enough to melee them. :/ Unless you're trying to replace, or possibly eclipse, RE's with Shotguns, the same group of people will get killed in the same way, and still complain. If you think it will cause balance, go ahead, but remember to watch what happens. People may start creating invulnerable positions if explosives no longer mean a threat to them. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Alena Ventrallis Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 3034	Posted - 2015.05.03 22:36:00 - [115] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. I think we should normalize splash and have damage increase on a smaller curve. Splash radius: 6m STD: 400 dmg ADV: 450 dmg PRO: 500 dmg PRo is still better, but not god-tier better. Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2722	Posted - 2015.05.03 22:42:00 - [116] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: The only nerf geenades ever needed was the removal of the ability to replenish them with a nanohive. Or rather make sure the resupply rate - the time - gets increased (nerfed). 20s standing on a hive is an eternity. That would also make sure everyone would get primary ammo before the logibro's hive is being gulped by nades. Both Breakin and KEROSIN have got it here. There's mutiple wins if we slow down 'nade replenishment rate and make it lowest priority for replenishment order. PSN: RationalSpark
xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 526	Posted - 2015.05.04 00:11:00 - [117] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Cook for two seconds, instant or near kill. Things do way too much damage for the ability to simply cook and collect bacon over a 7.2m radius. To be clear, the effective range of this thing is larger then than of the Shotgun's optimal range. For 720 damage to armor you effectively negate the entire defense of most suits just by holding down the button for a few seconds. IMO, grenade shouldn't be the first thing you resort to when in an engagement. Softening targets is one thing but killing multiple targets outright is a little ridiculous. For such a low-skill weapon, it's power needs to be scaled down rather dramatically. It's not like placing a well-aimed PLC shot or Forge-gun round (who's splash damage is lower, still) and I'd even argue that placing Mass Driver rounds on target takes more skill than just holding down the button and vaguely facing the enemy's direction. Proposal (any number of these will work): - Nerf the damage so that it's used as a proper splash damage weapon and not a way to cop-out of the shooter game. - Remove it from the Nanohives' restock capability; you should only be able to get them from supply depots. - Increase the PG/CPU so it has the costs of a primary weapon, since it basically is at this point. (Do me a solid and don't bring up the Flux Grenade. That's for a different thread.) Your post is coming off more of a personal problem than one that would do well to serve all who use it. It's a grenade yo... it's suppose to kill and mutilate. It's not a tennis ball *\|LOGi GOD\|* Director of Fatal Absolution
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. RUST415 792	Posted - 2015.05.04 00:40:00 - [118] - Quote I'm glad it's still one of the weapons in the game that don't feel like it's a toy. If you get caught on the wrong end of a grenade I'd think you should die. While I think the Core Locus are nice I'm to cheap to run them on my suits. When I get killed by them it's normally because they are cooked and it isn't always easy landing them so it doesn't bother me to much. I'm glad they are a lethal option, not sure what you can tweak without turning it into a toy. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9958	Posted - 2015.05.04 04:54:00 - [119] - Quote xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Cook for two seconds, instant or near kill. Things do way too much damage for the ability to simply cook and collect bacon over a 7.2m radius. To be clear, the effective range of this thing is larger then than of the Shotgun's optimal range. For 720 damage to armor you effectively negate the entire defense of most suits just by holding down the button for a few seconds. IMO, grenade shouldn't be the first thing you resort to when in an engagement. Softening targets is one thing but killing multiple targets outright is a little ridiculous. For such a low-skill weapon, it's power needs to be scaled down rather dramatically. It's not like placing a well-aimed PLC shot or Forge-gun round (who's splash damage is lower, still) and I'd even argue that placing Mass Driver rounds on target takes more skill than just holding down the button and vaguely facing the enemy's direction. Proposal (any number of these will work): - Nerf the damage so that it's used as a proper splash damage weapon and not a way to cop-out of the shooter game. - Remove it from the Nanohives' restock capability; you should only be able to get them from supply depots. - Increase the PG/CPU so it has the costs of a primary weapon, since it basically is at this point. (Do me a solid and don't bring up the Flux Grenade. That's for a different thread.) Your post is coming off more of a personal problem than one that would do well to serve all who use it. It's a grenade yo... it's suppose to kill and mutilate. It's not a tennis ball A personal problem that at least 22 other people are in agreement on. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Demandred Moores Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 61	Posted - 2015.05.04 05:07:00 - [120] - Quote KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote: OR.... do what they did in battlefield 4... yount cook a nade. you hit r2 and you have 0.4 sec to pull the pin and throw it. I Thought this was the dumbest thing in bf4 I don't see the point in taking away the ability to cook it at all. I'll just spam more of them Since I can't cook them to ensure area denial. Like I said before the only problem they have isn't how they work bit how fast they resupply and how abusable they are with 6 hives. The grenade does it's job it's a grenade. They wouldn't still use them in the future if they weren't able to do the job of a grenade.



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