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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
9409
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Posted - 2015.05.04 19:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. I think we should normalize splash and have damage increase on a smaller curve. Splash radius: 6m STD: 400 dmg ADV: 450 dmg PRO: 500 dmg PRo is still better, but not god-tier better. I like this idea, also thukkers need a bit of a radius increase, they are worthless.
Increments of 50 DMG won't justify the expense or resource req'ts of running prototype grenades. If the goal is to normalize progressions, I'd recommend 400/500/600 (from 300/400/600).
In my opinion, HP levels are simply too high to justify a nerf to damage output. When a newbro cooks, tosses and explodes an anti-personnel grenade a foot from your face, it needs to hurt. If it doesn't hurt, it breaks immersion.
If we're tuning blast radii, I agree that Thukker (2.5m) is too tight as is M8 packed locus (3.3m).
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
9415
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Posted - 2015.05.04 20:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:
Increments of 50 DMG won't justify the expense or resource req'ts of running prototype grenades. If the goal is to normalize progressions, I'd recommend 400/500/600 (from 300/400/600).
In my opinion, HP levels are simply too high to justify a nerf to damage output. When a newbro cooks, tosses and explodes an anti-personnel grenade a foot from your face, it needs to hurt. If it doesn't hurt, it breaks immersion.
If we're tuning blast radii, I agree that Thukker (2.5m) is too tight as is M8 packed locus (3.3m).
TTK doesn't need to be lower, it needs to be higher. I don't think HP levels are high enough and weapon damage has been getting higher and higher ever since 1.9. Game is losing it's tactical aspect and becoming more and more of a blobby-twitch shooter.
I don't like it, and you don't like it, but blobbing up is a tactic. Tossing a grenade into the blob could and should be a counter-tactic. Grenades are too weak to be of tactical benefit against blobs. Making them weaker won't make them more tactical.
In my opinion, this game was at its best in Chromosome. Everything was deadly, and everyone died quickly. There were no free passes, and newbro who got the drop on a vet more often than not killed the vet.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
9417
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Posted - 2015.05.04 23:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:
Increments of 50 DMG won't justify the expense or resource req'ts of running prototype grenades. If the goal is to normalize progressions, I'd recommend 400/500/600 (from 300/400/600).
In my opinion, HP levels are simply too high to justify a nerf to damage output. When a newbro cooks, tosses and explodes an anti-personnel grenade a foot from your face, it needs to hurt. If it doesn't hurt, it breaks immersion.
If we're tuning blast radii, I agree that Thukker (2.5m) is too tight as is M8 packed locus (3.3m).
TTK doesn't need to be lower, it needs to be higher. I don't think HP levels are high enough and weapon damage has been getting higher and higher ever since 1.9. Game is losing it's tactical aspect and becoming more and more of a blobby-twitch shooter. I don't like it, and you don't like it, but blobbing up is a tactic. Tossing a grenade into the blob could and should be a counter-tactic. Unfortunately, grenades are too weak to be of tactical benefit against blobs. Making them weaker won't make them more tactical. In my opinion, this game was at its best in Chromosome when everything was deadly, and everyone died quickly. There were no free passes, so when a newbro got the drop on a vet, he more often than not killed that vet. There was little time to respond once you were outplayed, so you watched your buddies backs and tried not to get outplayed. Today, weapons are gentler and HP pools are deeper, so when you're hit (even in the back) there's lots of time to react. In my mind, TTK increases do not benefit gameplay; they benefit lazy play. Shouldn't tactics be more proactive than reactive? I think we have vastly different memories of what Chromosome was like. I remember it being more tactical as a circumstance because of semi-reliable hit detection and a lack of aim assist which made TTK higher. Blobbing can be a tactic, sure, whatever, but there's better ways to go about it than Core Locus Grenades. Grenades aren't going to stop blobbing, they never have, and if they ever were supposed to then Uprising 1.5 would have been when we saw it all fall apart with Flaylock Pistols and Contact Grenades running rampant. You're not going to stop people from grouping up and (1) I believe it was you who said that there wasn't enough cover in the game, which means that they're grouping up -because- of that lack of cover. Grenades don't do anything to push people out of cover they just kill them outright. That's not engaging gameplay that's just putting people in a ****** situation no matter what, there's no (2) choice system in play and I can't make the conscious decision to either leave cover or stay in cover - I just die. Tactics come from higher TTK because you have to consider options, you have to know whether your weapon is going to work against your target well or if you should consider finding someone else to shoot at. That's not the case in Dust 514 because weaponry has been homogenized to the point that an ASCR will eat through armor just as well as any other weapon and an HMG doesn't care if you're using Shields or Armor - you're just going to die. So, yes, (3) tactics should be more proactive but you're not gaining that by saying (4) "Let me have my OHK grenade that no-one has time to react to" - that's contrary to what you're wanting in the first place because there's no decision making in how a person wants to die.
1. Yes, I might have said "Dust needs more cover" at some point during AR-514 before cloak was introduced. Back then, as I'm sure you recall, a Duvolle could gun down a speed-tanked Scout at 70m in about half a second. Cover would've helped.
2. The slightest misstep or miscalculation leads to death in other shooters. How is that so many people play them?
3. I agree. And lowering TTK would transform tactics from their presently reactive state to a more proactive state. Call it "twitch" if you want, but making bad decisions or getting outplayed should have consequences in combat. Having lots of time to react to a mistake begets lazy play and is likely to blame for the present King HP meta.
4. I didn't ask for OHK grenades. I asked that we not nerf grenades.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
9428
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Posted - 2015.05.05 17:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades. I think we should normalize splash and have damage increase on a smaller curve. Splash radius: 6m STD: 400 dmg ADV: 450 dmg PRO: 500 dmg PRo is still better, but not god-tier better. I like this idea, also thukkers need a bit of a radius increase, they are worthless. Increments of 50 DMG won't justify the expense or resource req'ts of running prototype grenades. If the goal is to normalize progressions, I'd recommend 400/500/600 (from 300/400/600). In my opinion, HP levels are simply too high to justify a nerf to damage output. When a newbro cooks, tosses and explodes an anti-personnel grenade a foot from your face, it needs to hurt. If it doesn't hurt, it breaks immersion. If we're tuning blast radii, I agree that Thukker (2.5m) is too tight as is M8 packed locus (3.3m). I agree with you with the exception of the HP levels are too high to justify a nerf to damage output comment, I think HP levels are too high ON BRICKED SUITS and brick tanking needs to be nerfed ...
That's a fair assessment, Vesta, and I completely agree.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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