A personal problem that at least 22 other people are in agreement on.

Amen. In Battlefield, grenades are used to flush people out of spots they are sitting in.

Grenade comes in, they have a choice. Try and eat the grenade and hope they live, or leave cover. Most people choose the second, and have to try to run through enemy fire.

I like it this way. You can't just go "Oh, he's right behind there. Say hello to my pocket grenade launcher", and then chuck a cooked nade on his head.

Buff contact nades, and then remove cooking on the other ones. You want instant explosion? Use a contact; you have very high damage and have severely reduced splash radius. You want to flush people out? Use a normal nade;You can't cook, but you have high damage and range.

Then we can buff the sleek nade and give them HUGE range but very low splash damage. Think of them as equipment killers, toss very far onto roofs and watch the EQ pop.

This goes for fluxes too. Contact fluxes would be really cool to see. Imagine a super high damage flux nade that explodes on contact. Great for Cal Heavies or Tanks (Still has VERY small radius).

Just my thoughts on the matter.

So is this why game developers tend not to let people cook nades in their games any more? (Because of easy mode abuseage) because I have always liked how this game lets you cook grenades but you do have a point....

Which means that 50% of the Dust forums agree with him!

I think we should normalize splash and have damage increase on a smaller curve.

Splash radius: 6m

STD: 400 dmg
ADV: 450 dmg
PRO: 500 dmg

PRo is still better, but not god-tier better.

I'm not sure if thats what the developers though, but it made sense to me. Noob tubes were used in BF2 to kill people in cover (when it was indestructible), as the splash would hit them through it. Grenades couldn't be cooked, but everyone had access to them.

Most people dealt with people in cover by tossing a grenade and pre-firing where they would be running out. Assaults didn't have to. They could just launch a noob tube at the dude. Call em the wrecking balls. Cooking greandes allow grenades to trespass onto noob tube territory. If made too strong, why carry one? Everyone know has a pocket grenade launcher.

Speaking of which, I want my underslung weapon system. I would kill for an underslung shotgun or launcher in Dust. With varible damage profiles.

EMP launcher on a combat rifle. I'm drooling at the thought.

I like this idea, also thukkers need a bit of a radius increase, they are worthless.

Cores were fine. Then Rattati buffed nanohives and they became abusable.

Everyone saw it coming, no one said anything.

Increments of 50 DMG won't justify the expense or resource req'ts of running prototype grenades. If the goal is to normalize progressions, I'd recommend 400/500/600 (from 300/400/600).

In my opinion, HP levels are simply too high to justify a nerf to damage output. When a newbro cooks, tosses and explodes an anti-personnel grenade a foot from your face, it needs to hurt. If it doesn't hurt, it breaks immersion.

If we're tuning blast radii, I agree that Thukker (2.5m) is too tight as is M8 packed locus (3.3m).

TTK doesn't need to be lower, it needs to be higher. I don't think HP levels are high enough and weapon damage has been getting higher and higher ever since 1.9. Game is losing it's tactical aspect and becoming more and more of a blobby-twitch shooter.

I don't like it, and you don't like it, but blobbing up is a tactic. Tossing a grenade into the blob could and should be a counter-tactic. Unfortunately, grenades are too weak to be of tactical benefit against blobs. Making them weaker won't make them more tactical.

In my opinion, this game was at its best in Chromosome when everything was deadly, and everyone died quickly. There were no free passes, so when a newbro got the drop on a vet, he more often than not killed that vet. There was little time to respond once you were outplayed, so you watched your buddies backs and tried not to get outplayed. Today, weapons are gentler and HP pools are deeper, so when you're hit (even in the back) there's lots of time to react.

In my mind, TTK increases do not benefit gameplay; they benefit lazy play. Shouldn't tactics be more proactive rather reactive?

I think we have vastly different memories of what Chromosome was like. I remember it being more tactical as a circumstance because of semi-reliable hit detection and a lack of aim assist which made TTK higher. Blobbing can be a tactic, sure, whatever, but there's better ways to go about it than Core Locus Grenades. Grenades aren't going to stop blobbing, they never have, and if they ever were supposed to then Uprising 1.5 would have been when we saw it all fall apart with Flaylock Pistols and Contact Grenades running rampant.

You're not going to stop people from grouping up and (1) I believe it was you who said that there wasn't enough cover in the game, which means that they're grouping up -because- of that lack of cover. Grenades don't do anything to push people out of cover they just kill them outright. That's not engaging gameplay that's just putting people in a ****** situation no matter what, there's no (2) choice system in play and I can't make the conscious decision to either leave cover or stay in cover - I just die.

Tactics come from higher TTK because you have to consider options, you have to know whether your weapon is going to work against your target well or if you should consider finding someone else to shoot at. That's not the case in Dust 514 because weaponry has been homogenized to the point that an ASCR will eat through armor just as well as any other weapon and an HMG doesn't care if you're using Shields or Armor - you're just going to die.

So, yes, (3) tactics should be more proactive but you're not gaining that by saying (4) "Let me have my OHK grenade that no-one has time to react to" - that's contrary to what you're wanting in the first place because there's no decision making in how a person wants to die.

Which means that 50% of the Dust forums agree with him!

Bro, I KNOW you did not just say let's make nades like bf4. Talk about the dumbest set up, mechanics, execution, philosophy E.V.E.R. We should, however, have a tag collection system like bf4

Aggro, lawl. How is isk relevant to philosophical opinions on game mechanics. Separate topic entirely.

How are nades "infinitely better than RE's". Again, back to the argument. Nades must be cooked and lobbed with coordination of timing and physics under a live fire situation - one that leaves you completely and utterly exposed to enemy combat. RE's are a place and forget style, no cooking necessary. Albeit they can ALSO be used much like a frisbee grenade, WITH NO COOKING NECESSARY. I guess according to you, we should nerf nova knives too: cuz it what unimaginable world would a set of knives deal more damage than a futuristic explosive device.

If you have the skill to cook and place the grenade properly, in effect you earned that kill. If you are an idiot that gets killed by noob nades, go back to academy. YOU CAN HEAR SOMEONE COOKING THEM, AND SEE THEM THROWN, AND HEAR THEM HIT THE GROUND. I'm going with a classic quote on this one: "WORKING AS INTENDED"

Increments of 50 DMG won't justify the expense or resource req'ts of running prototype grenades. If the goal is to normalize progressions, I'd recommend 400/500/600 (from 300/400/600).

In my opinion, HP levels are simply too high to justify a nerf to damage output. When a newbro cooks, tosses and explodes an anti-personnel grenade a foot from your face, it needs to hurt. If it doesn't hurt, it breaks immersion.

If we're tuning blast radii, I agree that Thukker (2.5m) is too tight as is M8 packed locus (3.3m).

Remember, upping the range effectively increases actual damage.

the problem is if we drop nade damage again we wind up with worthless nades. Again.

Increments of 50 DMG won't justify the expense or resource req'ts of running prototype grenades. If the goal is to normalize progressions, I'd recommend 400/500/600 (from 300/400/600).

In my opinion, HP levels are simply too high to justify a nerf to damage output. When a newbro cooks, tosses and explodes an anti-personnel grenade a foot from your face, it needs to hurt. If it doesn't hurt, it breaks immersion.

If we're tuning blast radii, I agree that Thukker (2.5m) is too tight as is M8 packed locus (3.3m).

I like normalizing damage and increasing radius with tiers. I also disagree with that we didn't know grenades use would go up, that was the intent, grenades were UP and are currently not a problem. Don't run blindly around a corner. RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades.

RE's will be getting a throwing distance nerf in the next hotfix as they were meant as traps more than grenades.

I agree with you with the exception of the HP levels are too high to justify a nerf to damage output comment, I think HP levels are too high ON BRICKED SUITS and brick tanking needs to be nerfed ...

Bro, I KNOW you did not just say let's make nades like bf4. Talk about the dumbest set up, mechanics, execution, philosophy E.V.E.R. We should, however, have a tag collection system like bf4

Aggro, lawl. How is isk relevant to philosophical opinions on game mechanics. Separate topic entirely.

How are nades "infinitely better than RE's". Again, back to the argument. Nades must be cooked and lobbed with coordination of timing and physics under a live fire situation - one that leaves you completely and utterly exposed to enemy combat. RE's are a place and forget style, no cooking necessary. Albeit they can ALSO be used much like a frisbee grenade, WITH NO COOKING NECESSARY. I guess according to you, we should nerf nova knives too: cuz it what unimaginable world would a set of knives deal more damage than a futuristic explosive device.

If you have the skill to cook and place the grenade properly, in effect you earned that kill. If you are an idiot that gets killed by noob nades, go back to academy. YOU CAN HEAR SOMEONE COOKING THEM, AND SEE THEM THROWN, AND HEAR THEM HIT THE GROUND. I'm going with a classic quote on this one: "WORKING AS INTENDED"

Okay, I uploaded video that touches the subject.
Dust 514: Pub#249 L Camping the depot, tight logitrain


Following points can be seen there:
- nade resupply is too easy (best fix still the resupply rate/speed)
- nade spamming is possible due to above
- cooking is powerful
- cooking requires dexterity and some planning
- nades work against blobs and can be used to kill logitrains


(
A longish video, but it is non-stop action straight from the beginning! Explosions everywhere.
I was primarying as a rep logi (rare thing for me as I usually suck at it) but somehow I ended up with top kills.
Well not somehow, 90% or so kills were nade kills... =P
)

****ing m6 lol

That quote was more of a jab at forum activity, don't take it out of context.

Grenades in battlefield are DEADLY. They WILL kill you. To balance it, they are made so that you can't cook them and throw insta kills all over the place. If you want something like that, they let you use the noob tube. I was fine with this. I also detailed how they were mainly used as utility or room clearer (Removing people from cover or forcing them to back away from that corner they are camping). I LIKE grenades like this.

RE's need a fix. Frisbee does need to stop, and I agree with it. They are easy to detect via scanning and eyes, but pack a significant punch, just like C4 in Battlefield. Remove throwing, and I will consider RE's fixed. Retain throwing for packed RE's, solely for anti-vehicle applications.

Nova Knife argument is dumb. They have high damage due to balance. High Risk, High Reward. While RE's are much easier to use, and pack similar damage, they also aren't reusable like knives, nor as easy to use in the heat of the moment (With previously mentioned changes, you won't be able to throw one down willy nilly).

Not denying that cooking nades take skill to use and implement correctly. I can appreciate a good throw when I see one (Or on the receiving end). However, I do believe that they as a whole are enroaching on the Mass Driver. With so many nanohives available, why use an MD? Cores deal a good 3-4 shots of damage with a single quick throw. If you want the ability to routinely deal with targets around corners, I think that people should use the mass driver to do so, rather than shoehorning the grenade into that tool.

You get my drift Shep?