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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
iKILLu osborne Dead Man's Game RUST415 679	Posted - 2015.02.13 09:52:00 - [31] - Quote its the +20/-20 profile screwing the ascr and considering it doesn't heat up that bad the amarr ass. really don't help it, the regular scr can get away with the +20/-20 cause of the charge shot and the amarr ass. bonus, and high damage per shot. (n`-´)+Æ;;; shotgun blast yo ASs _/ \
Pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1561	Posted - 2015.02.13 10:22:00 - [32] - Quote We need the kills/spawn ratio of hmg One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 17372	Posted - 2015.02.13 10:33:00 - [33] - Quote Jathniel wrote: You really really do NOT need to buff that TAR. It's literally my primary weapon. On it's own, it's already extremely effective. With triple-damage mods, it's essentially as powerful as the old-school scrambler pistol..... except with range. It's not under-performing. My guess is most people just don't like the kick. You CANNOT. I repeat. CANNOT safely make that gun ANY stronger damage wise. You can PROBABLY get away with a 25m range buff, without breaking it. Or a 10% kick reduction. But....... Do NOT increase the mag size. Do NOT increase the damage. Do NOT increase the rate of fire. Do NOT improve hip fire accuracy. The TAR is borderline to the lethality it had in 1.0, and that will break it. This is someone biased in favor of the TAR, pleading with you not to buff it any further. It really does not need it. It is a GOOD thing that the TAR takes skill to use, and is limited to a few users. TAR worst K/S bar none...don't know how those opinions "align" "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 17372	Posted - 2015.02.13 10:38:00 - [34] - Quote Pagl1u M wrote: We need the kills/spawn ratio of hmg It's too damn high, ranking with top tier rifles. I am working on Hotfix Echo, where the plan is to rein in the range, and nothing else. They are too effective in "rifle" range "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7168	Posted - 2015.02.13 10:41:00 - [35] - Quote What this tells me is that shield suits are still deeply in the minority despite the fact that they are damn good. AV
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7168	Posted - 2015.02.13 10:42:00 - [36] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Pagl1u M wrote: We need the kills/spawn ratio of hmg It's too damn high, ranking with top tier rifles. I am working on Hotfix Echo, where the plan is to rein in the range, and nothing else. They are too effective in "rifle" range May I weigh in here? AV
Pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1563	Posted - 2015.02.13 10:43:00 - [37] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Pagl1u M wrote: We need the kills/spawn ratio of hmg It's too damn high, ranking with top tier rifles. I am working on Hotfix Echo, where the plan is to rein in the range, and nothing else. They are too effective in "rifle" range Amen, Rattati! Thank you! That's exactly the problem, the hmg can even outrange an AR user! Thank god we have CCP Rattati. One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 15143	Posted - 2015.02.13 10:43:00 - [38] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Reduce TAR kick. The kick is not much of a big deal in close range, but at longer ranges it makes it impossible to fully make use of the fire rate without it flying all over the place. Give the ASCR a mechanic that makes the heat buildup justified. The regular SCR has the charge shot which is balanced by heat buildup, the laser rifle has has a damage buildup mechanic that has to be balanced by the heat buildup. On the ASCR though, doesn't feel justified, so I recommend giving it a "damage buildup per based on continuous fire duration" feature like the laser rifle... or at the very least, just make it less jittery, and reduce dispersion. As for the burst AR, I don't really know what to attribute the lack of use to, but seems pretty solid to me. Perhaps people just haven't found out how good it is? ASCR is actually an incredibly good rifle without heat. Fastest reload, tight dispersion, arguably best sight of all the Assault variants, excellent range, etc'. It also has a high damage per mag, though I don't remember if the AR caught up or not since the mag damage increase. I really don't know why it doesn't perform. Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! *Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!*
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 15143	Posted - 2015.02.13 10:47:00 - [39] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Pagl1u M wrote: We need the kills/spawn ratio of hmg It's too damn high, ranking with top tier rifles. I am working on Hotfix Echo, where the plan is to rein in the range, and nothing else. They are too effective in "rifle" range While I think the problem is damage combined with ease of use and not range, it's still better than a heat build up nerf that in effect does very little on the field. Since even with heat build, the HMG can still destroy every suit in its path 3 times over. Except sentinels, those it can do twice over Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! *Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!*
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2176	Posted - 2015.02.13 10:55:00 - [40] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Pagl1u M wrote: We need the kills/spawn ratio of hmg It's too damn high, ranking with top tier rifles. I am working on Hotfix Echo, where the plan is to rein in the range, and nothing else. They are too effective in "rifle" range I'd roll back the damage honestly. 720 dps (-15/+15) at MLT level. 792 (-15/+15) at proto without proficiency or damage mods. That's 910dps vs armor. On suits that can have 2000 EHP if they fully brick out. I'd pair the dps up with something like an assault combat rifle, then just let it fire for the left side of forever. Also, might it be possible that HMG's are really **ing with the kills per spawn of assault rifle variants? They are in roughly the same range after all. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.

Haerr Nos Nothi 2332	Posted - 2015.02.13 11:07:00 - [41] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: MOAR DATA PLZ! YES MOAR PLZ!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7168	Posted - 2015.02.13 11:08:00 - [42] - Quote It's not just the HMG. It's the design philosophy behind the HMG and sentinel is restricting a slow, heavily armored sensor-blind monster to CQC. Why does the HMG overperform? Because CQC dominance means it's expected to function best in an environment that negates most of it's disadvantages. Bluntly the only reason to have something built like a sentinel is if it's expected to be exposed providing supporting fire and needs to be able to take multiple strong hits. I remember the original heavy turn speed penalty. It allowed people to circle tge fatty and use superior mobility to rip said heavy apart. Basically it negated the heavy's CQC role entirely. But it didn't really interfere with the forge gun's lethality at a distance. Why? Because the forge gun is a long-range, open ground weapon. You didn't expect to live if an assault or a scout got too close. So why do I bring it up? Because it could have been a balancing factor to a fire SUPPORT platform. HMG sentinels are at the top because you can too-easily use them as lockdown point defense and heavy assault suits. They are in environments where their mobility issues are a nonfactor and they can casually negate sensor blindness by putting their backs in a corner or having a rep tool behind them. AV
Haerr Nos Nothi 2332	Posted - 2015.02.13 11:09:00 - [43] - Quote Data on Breach Shotguns, all tiers? Pretty please. :-)
duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 249	Posted - 2015.02.13 11:31:00 - [44] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: What this tells me is that shield suits are still deeply in the minority despite the fact that they are damn good. And that any scrambler tech instantly forces them to use armor suits, while armor doesn't have to change. Molestia approved
John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 1291	Posted - 2015.02.13 11:32:00 - [45] - Quote Dear Rattati, could you repaint this chart in any colors besides blue, light blue, light blue and dark blue? Damn hard recognized. Please support fair play!
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2176	Posted - 2015.02.13 11:34:00 - [46] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: What this tells me is that shield suits are still deeply in the minority despite the fact that they are damn good. And that any scrambler tech instantly forces them to use armor suits, while armor doesn't have to change. It's not that. It is quite simply, that any damage taken (even incidental damage from people shooting **ing assault rifles at you 100m away!) stops shield repair. The same is not true of stopping armor repair. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 15143	Posted - 2015.02.13 11:36:00 - [47] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: What this tells me is that shield suits are still deeply in the minority despite the fact that they are damn good. And that any scrambler tech instantly forces them to use armor suits, while armor doesn't have to change. Umm, have you seen what a Combat Rifle does to armor? Or explosive spam that is common in CQC maps? Saying that armor suits don't have their hard counters is bullshit. The majority of weapons on the field are anti armor. Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! *Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!*
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 845	Posted - 2015.02.13 11:44:00 - [48] - Quote I don't know how the burst AR can be considered not good enough. Its devastating, its has all the strengths of the combat rifle, does more damage, and a better damage profile. The ASCR I repeatedly covered with charts and data showing exactly why its UP but that never got any traction. In case your wondering, the Proto ASCR does less damage against armor than all of the ADV Rail rifle vs shield, ADV Combat rifle vs shield, and ADV AR vs Armor. The ADV ASCR in the same situation is on STD rifle tier. The TAC AR is pretty good, but like the plasma cannon, niche because its a bit unwieldy. It might need some tweaks to make it easier to handle, but damage output and range, its fine. As long as Logis are sticking to HMGS they will always have the highest K/S ratio. That should be taken into consideration. Perhaps you can work out the kills /spawn as well as look at healing recieved. Then you can judge how op heavies seem to be. As in heavies a lower healing recieved stats might be more balanced with the other suits. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Francois Sanchez Prima Gallicus 243	Posted - 2015.02.13 12:04:00 - [49] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Jathniel wrote: You really really do NOT need to buff that TAR. It's literally my primary weapon. On it's own, it's already extremely effective. With triple-damage mods, it's essentially as powerful as the old-school scrambler pistol..... except with range. It's not under-performing. My guess is most people just don't like the kick. You CANNOT. I repeat. CANNOT safely make that gun ANY stronger damage wise. You can PROBABLY get away with a 25m range buff, without breaking it. Or a 10% kick reduction. But....... Do NOT increase the mag size. Do NOT increase the damage. Do NOT increase the rate of fire. Do NOT improve hip fire accuracy. The TAR is borderline to the lethality it had in 1.0, and that will break it. This is someone biased in favor of the TAR, pleading with you not to buff it any further. It really does not need it. It is a GOOD thing that the TAR takes skill to use, and is limited to a few users. TAR worst K/S bar none...don't know how those opinions "align" The K/S may be lower, but it's not because the weapon needs a buff, but simply because : - people are armour tanking, an anti-shield weapon can perform as well as anti-armour without being OP (moreover powerful anti-shield weapons push shield users to armour tank too) - gallente rifles in general are more effective at shorter range where they have to face the king HMG, moreover getting close to the enemy is more dangerous than sitting far away by definition (less exposed to flank, traps etc)
Jebus McKing Nos Nothi 1448	Posted - 2015.02.13 12:06:00 - [50] - Quote The AScR is a decent weapon. It's just that the ScR is so overwhelmingly more powerful. Jebus still hates scans.

Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 845	Posted - 2015.02.13 12:16:00 - [51] - Quote Current Burst AR in action If thats not good enough, then what is? Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
GrimzOvaHourz The Forgotten Spirits 72	Posted - 2015.02.13 12:46:00 - [52] - Quote **** your data
zzZaXxx The Exemplars 720	Posted - 2015.02.13 13:32:00 - [53] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I would be very hesitant to suggest buffing the TAR. I'm not sure why the data doesn't perfectly reflect it, but I am finding it an exceedingly powerful weapon, to the point where I have sometimes taken heavies head on and won. If you do buff it, please be cautious. It needs one thing: reduced ADS kick. Or just mimic the SCR's ADS kick (which is less and also seems to have no horizontal kick)
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5973	Posted - 2015.02.13 13:53:00 - [54] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Pagl1u M wrote: We need the kills/spawn ratio of hmg It's too damn high, ranking with top tier rifles. I am working on Hotfix Echo, where the plan is to rein in the range, and nothing else. They are too effective in "rifle" range I guess I will be using my sidearm more in the near future... But then just about every proposed solution we have come up with to balance the HMG would lead to Sentinels having to switch to sidearms in specific situations, so I guess we will try the range approach and see how it works out. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 15602	Posted - 2015.02.13 14:28:00 - [55] - Quote How is the Tactical AR underpowered when it does more damage than the SCR, can fire more shots than the SCR can before overheating, has the same RPM, while only having -15m? How is the Burst AR underpowered when it does more damage than the CR, has a larger magazine than the CR (even with MinAssault V), has the same RPM, while only having -12m? Your entire premise is flawed because usage does not equate to power. Claiming it does is fallacious because it fails to assess other factors which would cause it to be used more (or less), such as objectives being CQC oriented, weapons only being able to damage vehicles, weapon isn't great against the most prevalent tank, etc. Easy examples would be the pre-1.7 Swarm Launcher, which despite being overpowered still remained as the 3rd least used Light Weapon, and the the SMG which despite being the most used Sidearm in the history of DUST is balanced and has adequate advantages and drawbacks to other weapons. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Ku Shala UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE 1254	Posted - 2015.02.13 14:47:00 - [56] - Quote when was the last update on this post? tac and burst are awsome. subnote : in the future can you make more contrasting colours on your charts? why do you hate the colour blind, I cant tell a squad member from a blue *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (CK-0 Specialist)* Caldari Loyalist Superior technology will privale.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 17408	Posted - 2015.02.13 15:02:00 - [57] - Quote Atiim wrote: How is the Tactical AR underpowered when it does more damage than the SCR, can fire more shots than the SCR can before overheating, has the same RPM, while only having -15m? How is the Burst AR underpowered when it does more damage than the CR, has a larger magazine than the CR (even with MinAssault V), has the same RPM, while only having -12m? Your entire premise is flawed because usage does not equate to power. Claiming it does is fallacious because it fails to assess other factors which would cause it to be used more (or less), such as objectives being CQC oriented, weapons only being able to damage vehicles, weapon isn't great against the most prevalent tank, etc. Easy examples would be the pre-1.7 Swarm Launcher, which despite being overpowered still remained as the 3rd least used Light Weapon, and the the SMG which despite being the most used Sidearm in the history of DUST is balanced and has adequate advantages and drawbacks to other weapons. Ask the players, they don't choose those weapons, and when they do, they perform worse with them than other weapons. It's just facts, that need to be reconciliated with those things. Why indeed? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 7784	Posted - 2015.02.13 15:08:00 - [58] - Quote Atiim wrote: Your entire premise is flawed because usage does not equate to power. If useage was the only data he was examining, then yes, you would be right. In the OP he clearly states... CCP Rattati wrote: The obvious lesson is that ASCR, TAR and Burst AR are not good enough, and those three also have the lowest Kills/Spawn ratio (similar to KDR ratio), so low usage and low efficiency indicates "not good enough" Rattati is also monitoring each weapon's Kills/Spawn: their killing efficiency. "You don't want McSyphilis. Don't nobody want McSyphilis." - One Eyed King
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4955	Posted - 2015.02.13 16:07:00 - [59] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Pagl1u M wrote: We need the kills/spawn ratio of hmg It's too damn high, ranking with top tier rifles. I am working on Hotfix Echo, where the plan is to rein in the range, and nothing else. They are too effective in "rifle" range I guess I will be using my sidearm more in the near future... But then just about every proposed solution we have come up with to balance the HMG would lead to Sentinels having to switch to sidearms in specific situations, so I guess we will try the range approach and see how it works out. This seems like a reasonable solution to me. I often carry a longer range sidearm...and then realize I don't really need it most of the time "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7173	Posted - 2015.02.13 16:21:00 - [60] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Pagl1u M wrote: We need the kills/spawn ratio of hmg It's too damn high, ranking with top tier rifles. I am working on Hotfix Echo, where the plan is to rein in the range, and nothing else. They are too effective in "rifle" range why aren't we looking at reversing the role and making them vulnerable in CQC and deadly at long range? There's only so many more nerf options before the stupid thing gets pushed off a cliff. I'm not trying to be high and mighty or condescending. I'm honestly believing CQC HMGs aren't working, haven't worked as intended since their inception and making them and the Sentinel platform a CQC thing was a bad idea to begin with. We also need to consider that in my experience most HMG engagements and kills happen at 20m or less. Sentinels hug CQC areas like it's their lifeline to force people to fight them on optimal terms for them. Anything inside 20m is chutney, so that's where the hits tend to happen. until you drop the HMG below shotgun optimal these nerfs are going to be a zero-sum effort because a logi and tight spaces will do the work and they will continue racking up kills. It'll also see more fatties resorting to tactics like murder taxis to bypass the range restrictions. Ejecting sentinels from CQC is, in my opinion, the best answer. AV



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