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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7243	Posted - 2015.02.17 09:22:00 - [121] - Quote Alex-ZX wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: drop HMG to 2000 RPM, increase range to 40m. puts it at 650 DPS-ish. Please do not mess with the hmg. If ccp want to makes autocannons in that way go ahead, but the hmg is good as it is right now. I wouldn't tolerate another nerf, in that weapon. Also that is off topic. Talk about the Tar, ascr n bar. Rattati brought up the HMG needing a nerf. I'm suggesting one because I'd rather have the range than the instamurder. AV
Alex-ZX Valor Coalition Red Whines. 266	Posted - 2015.02.17 12:03:00 - [122] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Alex-ZX wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: drop HMG to 2000 RPM, increase range to 40m. puts it at 650 DPS-ish. Please do not mess with the hmg. If ccp want to makes autocannons in that way go ahead, but the hmg is good as it is right now. I wouldn't tolerate another nerf, in that weapon. Also that is off topic. Talk about the Tar, ascr n bar. Rattati brought up the HMG needing a nerf. I'm suggesting one because I'd rather have the range than the instamurder. Well if there's gonna be a nerf I prefer loosing my range. But the dps is the only good that has that weapon, decreasing it to keep the range is a double nerf, cus' it isn't able to reach a good range, after all if u didn't see HMGs from chromosome, u didn't see anything. Well is a shame that ccp still nerfing that weapon, I can see how the circle is gonna end. Lol Ccp just a petition, please stop nerfing my hmg, because at first instance u said it was able to shoot 12 secs, right now not sure about that promise. And now range? So as a friendly petition. Do not nerf my hmg anymore, at least keep that as it is right now. Thanks. Alex's modified ZX-030 HMG Luis' modified VC-107 CR Alex's modified VC-107 SMG *Owner of this beasts*
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7246	Posted - 2015.02.17 15:34:00 - [123] - Quote We knew it was coming. You wanna bury your head in the sand and try to stonewall or would you rather help the rest of us figure out how to meet rattati in the middle so ADS doesn't repeat itself? AV
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2203	Posted - 2015.02.17 22:28:00 - [124] - Quote Did a little testing today and the assault rail rifle doesn't start having any damage drop off until 71m. This seems to be where this weapon is overperforming I would happily take 100 less dps for 26m more range. Std rail seems to be okay, I'm not 100% on where its overperforming. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2396	Posted - 2015.02.18 06:55:00 - [125] - Quote Alex-ZX wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: drop HMG to 2000 RPM, increase range to 40m. puts it at 650 DPS-ish. Please do not mess with the hmg. If ccp want to makes autocannons in that way go ahead, but the hmg is good as it is right now. I wouldn't tolerate another nerf, in that weapon. Also that is off topic. Talk about the Tar, ascr n bar. Lol. "Tolerate" What are you gonna do? Send Ratatti to the principals office? Home at Last <3
Alex-ZX Valor Coalition Red Whines. 268	Posted - 2015.02.18 11:40:00 - [126] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Alex-ZX wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: drop HMG to 2000 RPM, increase range to 40m. puts it at 650 DPS-ish. Please do not mess with the hmg. If ccp want to makes autocannons in that way go ahead, but the hmg is good as it is right now. I wouldn't tolerate another nerf, in that weapon. Also that is off topic. Talk about the Tar, ascr n bar. Lol. "Tolerate" What are you gonna do? Send Ratatti to the principals office? Haha u may be a child. I just would stop using the hmg, or would find another way to annoy ppl with. Tolerate.. Is just a way to say "no I will stop using it" after all is not my game or anything like that, but ccp is doing the same as they did, however, still having a ton of sp to spec into something else, I haven't use the hmg seriously in a good time, but I felt that it was perfect, maybe it seems op because there are many noobs. Well that is part of another topic. Ccp for the ascr I would increase its damage something like a 5 or 3% and see how it works. It's not a really good weapon because of the damage and specialisation that one has to do. Alex's modified ZX-030 HMG Luis' modified VC-107 CR Alex's modified VC-107 SMG *Owner of this beasts*
Alena Ventrallis Intara Direct Action Caldari State 2551	Posted - 2015.02.18 16:37:00 - [127] - Quote Just reduce HMG dispersion. I don't see why this is hard to realize. HMG kills because a lot of weak bullets hit you really fast. Cutting the range is pointless because you can still apply a metric f*ckton of bullets into a target. Just increase dispersion so that less bullets actually make contact. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K RISE of LEGION 434	Posted - 2015.02.18 19:12:00 - [128] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Jathniel wrote: You really really do NOT need to buff that TAR. It's literally my primary weapon. On it's own, it's already extremely effective. With triple-damage mods, it's essentially as powerful as the old-school scrambler pistol..... except with range. It's not under-performing. My guess is most people just don't like the kick. You CANNOT. I repeat. CANNOT safely make that gun ANY stronger damage wise. You can PROBABLY get away with a 25m range buff, without breaking it. Or a 10% kick reduction. But....... Do NOT increase the mag size. Do NOT increase the damage. Do NOT increase the rate of fire. Do NOT improve hip fire accuracy. The TAR is borderline to the lethality it had in 1.0, and that will break it. This is someone biased in favor of the TAR, pleading with you not to buff it any further. It really does not need it. It is a GOOD thing that the TAR takes skill to use, and is limited to a few users. TAR worst K/S bar none...don't know how those opinions "align" It needs a range buff. The tactical rifles should be good at picking at people from long range, but you actually have to enter combat rifle optimal to use the TAR well, this means its going to be directly competing with stuff like the CR/ACR/ARR that can just poop way more damage unless you are using a modded controller on that TAR. The range difference and the difference in kick is why the scrambler is better than the TAR, it doesnt have to deal with the damage falloff or the weapon kicking off target, so the SCR ends up being much better at all ranges. P.S. please nerf SCR burst performance (not talking about the charge shot, talking about the massive 10+ shot alpha damage you can crap out in half a second) Also TAR and SCR are still horrifically exploitable by people using modded controllers to fire as many shots as they can in virtually 0 time.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2398	Posted - 2015.02.18 22:38:00 - [129] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Jathniel wrote: You really really do NOT need to buff that TAR. It's literally my primary weapon. On it's own, it's already extremely effective. With triple-damage mods, it's essentially as powerful as the old-school scrambler pistol..... except with range. It's not under-performing. My guess is most people just don't like the kick. You CANNOT. I repeat. CANNOT safely make that gun ANY stronger damage wise. You can PROBABLY get away with a 25m range buff, without breaking it. Or a 10% kick reduction. But....... Do NOT increase the mag size. Do NOT increase the damage. Do NOT increase the rate of fire. Do NOT improve hip fire accuracy. The TAR is borderline to the lethality it had in 1.0, and that will break it. This is someone biased in favor of the TAR, pleading with you not to buff it any further. It really does not need it. It is a GOOD thing that the TAR takes skill to use, and is limited to a few users. TAR worst K/S bar none...don't know how those opinions "align" It needs a range buff. The tactical rifles should be good at picking at people from long range, but you actually have to enter combat rifle optimal to use the TAR well, this means its going to be directly competing with stuff like the CR/ACR/ARR that can just poop way more damage unless you are using a modded controller on that TAR. The range difference and the difference in kick is why the scrambler is better than the TAR, it doesnt have to deal with the damage falloff or the weapon kicking off target, so the SCR ends up being much better at all ranges. P.S. please nerf SCR burst performance (not talking about the charge shot, talking about the massive 10+ shot alpha damage you can crap out in half a second) Also TAR and SCR are still horrifically exploitable by people using modded controllers to fire as many shots as they can in virtually 0 time. 1.) Adding range to the TacAR isn't an option without also buffing the ScR range or nerfing TacAR Damage, both of which I'm sure you're quite against. It has a mere 5m less optimal than the ScR, add any meaningful range to it, and it will outrange the ScR, which is out of the question. 2.)ScR has more kick than the TacAR. And theTacAR with sharpshooter and Galassault has miniscule kick. Small enough to be practically nonexistent. The major differences between the two is that the ScR kicks harder and straight up, while the TAC kicks softer and more wildly. I won't lie, the ScR has a more desirable aiming kick overall, but the TacAR also has a more desirable hipfire overall. This seems to work well racially. 3.) I don't understand how somebody can complain about the ScRs burst damage, but not the TacARs. The TacAR has more bust damage than the ScR. Their RoF is the same and the TAC does more damage, so it just seems silly to me to say something like that in defense of the TAC. "For every finger you point, you point three back at yourself..." Home at Last <3
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6761	Posted - 2015.02.19 00:26:00 - [130] - Quote Thinking ScR hipfire dispersion needs to be increased. The weapon is both highly effective down range and when "panic spammed" from the hip in CQC. Doing so would help with its over-efficiency. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7294	Posted - 2015.02.19 09:05:00 - [131] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Does ScR hipfire dispersion need to be increased? The weapon is both highly effective down range and highly effective when spammed from the hip in CQC. Is it unreasonable to ask a long-rang combatant to switch to sidearm for CQC engagements? Bluntly there shouldn't be this much performance variance between battle rifles. They all perform the same function, they are all the mainstay for racial infantry. The fact that one is clearly superior to another is an idiot ball. I'm not saying universal homogeneity of weapons is a grand idea, but the performance of the rifles shouldn't be so wildly varied that one negates the utility of the others. Sidearms are backups for when you are out of ammo, cant afford to reload or using a weapon that is worthless in close like a forge. Battle rifles should be primarily differentiated by profile and firing mechanics with small tweaks to represent variation in racial design. Not one hits hard at 40m but the other gets +75% range advantage. The wild variances should be represented in the support weapons that form the battle tactics around those rifles. AV
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6772	Posted - 2015.02.19 14:16:00 - [132] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Does ScR hipfire dispersion need to be increased? The weapon is both highly effective down range and highly effective when spammed from the hip in CQC. Is it unreasonable to ask a long-rang combatant to switch to sidearm for CQC engagements? Bluntly there shouldn't be this much performance variance between battle rifles. They all perform the same function, they are all the mainstay for racial infantry. The fact that one is clearly superior to another is an idiot ball. I'm not saying universal homogeneity of weapons is a grand idea, but the performance of the rifles shouldn't be so wildly varied that one negates the utility of the others. Sidearms are backups for when you are out of ammo, cant afford to reload or using a weapon that is worthless in close like a forge. Battle rifles should be primarily differentiated by profile and firing mechanics with small tweaks to represent variation in racial design. Not one hits hard at 40m but the other gets +75% range advantage. The wild variances should be represented in the support weapons that form the battle tactics around those rifles. We've a wide variety of Fine Rifles now, so I must disagree if you're suggesting that all of them should be supremely effective both up close and down range. Having the right tool for the job in hand should matter, and the ScR's competence in CQC should be subject to the same scrutiny as that of the pre-nerf Rail Rifle. Suggestion In a long-range engagement, a Long Rifle will consistently outperform the short-to-mid-range Battle Rifles. These ranged titans, however, are a 'bit too unwieldy to perform reliably at shorter ranges, which is where the more compact Battle Rifles excel. Long Rifles - RR, ScR, LSR, Tac AR Battle Rifles - ARR, aScR, AR, BrAR, BAR, CRs Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7297	Posted - 2015.02.19 15:33:00 - [133] - Quote Forcing a single shot weapon to perform poorly in close is unnecessary. And if we do it because modded Control sh*tlords then we screw legit players hardcore. My two cents, since I'm not really having a problem with close up scrams. And I'm gravitating to shield suits more and more. Just having more fun with them than I am armor. AV
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6772	Posted - 2015.02.19 15:45:00 - [134] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Forcing a single shot weapon to perform poorly in close is unnecessary. And if we do it because modded Control sh*tlords then we screw legit players hardcore. My two cents, since I'm not really having a problem with close up scrams. And I'm gravitating to shield suits more and more. Just having more fun with them than I am armor. While the scrambler rifle isn't particularly effective against Heavies, it is obscenely effective against low-HP units and Scouts. And there's nothing "single shot" about an ScR volley. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7297	Posted - 2015.02.19 15:53:00 - [135] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Forcing a single shot weapon to perform poorly in close is unnecessary. And if we do it because modded Control sh*tlords then we screw legit players hardcore. My two cents, since I'm not really having a problem with close up scrams. And I'm gravitating to shield suits more and more. Just having more fun with them than I am armor. While the scrambler rifle isn't particularly effective against Heavies, it is obscenely effective against low-HP units and Scouts. Weapon balance must take into account suit variety. breach ARs are also obscenely effective against low HP suits and scouts. I think this is a bad idea, thoroughly. AV
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6773	Posted - 2015.02.19 16:01:00 - [136] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Forcing a single shot weapon to perform poorly in close is unnecessary. And if we do it because modded Control sh*tlords then we screw legit players hardcore. My two cents, since I'm not really having a problem with close up scrams. And I'm gravitating to shield suits more and more. Just having more fun with them than I am armor. While the scrambler rifle isn't particularly effective against Heavies, it is obscenely effective against low-HP units and Scouts. Weapon balance must take into account suit variety. breach ARs are also obscenely effective against low HP suits and scouts. I think this is a bad idea, thoroughly. Not even close to the same scale as the ScR. Think Burst HMG vs MLT gear; it is that fast. This would be fine if the weapon were more limited in its arena of competence, but it isn't. Example: While in an Assault Ak.0, I got shotgunned twice in the back last night by a Advanced Scout wielding a CRG-3. I twirled around and melted his face with Adv ScR without the slightest effort in aiming. This was an experienced Scout; I've played against him many times, and he had me dead-to-rights. The moment I melted him, I knew that this was wrong-by-design. I am not a KB/M user, so I twirl more slowly than others. I am not a modded-controller user, so I spam this ScR more slowly than others. Even in my sub-optimal hands, I find the "panic spam" feature of this weapon to be straight-up broken. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2398	Posted - 2015.02.19 19:53:00 - [137] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Forcing a single shot weapon to perform poorly in close is unnecessary. And if we do it because modded Control sh*tlords then we screw legit players hardcore. My two cents, since I'm not really having a problem with close up scrams. And I'm gravitating to shield suits more and more. Just having more fun with them than I am armor. While the scrambler rifle isn't particularly effective against Heavies, it is obscenely effective against low-HP units and Scouts. Weapon balance must take into account suit variety. breach ARs are also obscenely effective against low HP suits and scouts. I think this is a bad idea, thoroughly. Not even close to the same scale as the ScR. Think Burst HMG vs MLT gear; it is that fast. This would be fine if the weapon were more limited in its arena of competence, but this is not the case. Example: While running Assault Ak.0 ast night, I got shotgunned twice in the back by a Advanced Scout wielding a CRG-3. I twirled around and melted him in ~0.3 seconds with Adv ScR (no dmg mods) and without the slightest effort in aiming. This was an experienced Scout whom I've played against many times, and he had me dead-to-rights. The moment I melted him, I knew that this was wrong-by-design. I am not a KB/M user, so I twirl more slowly than others; I am not a modded-controller user, so I spam ScR more slowly than others. Even in my sub-optimal, old-man hands, I find the "panic spam" feature of this weapon to be straight-up broken. What happened last night shouldn't happen, and it is happening every day. This is the impetus behind my recommendation. Nice exaggerations. 0.3s Lol. What, did he die in two shots? Unless he was a barebones Minscout and you landed double headshots, he didn't die that fast... Happens every day, huh? Home at Last <3
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6775	Posted - 2015.02.19 20:08:00 - [138] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Nice exaggerations. 0.3s Lol. What, did he die in two shots? Unless he was a barebones Minscout and you landed double headshots, he didn't die that fast... Happens every day, huh? I don't make stuff up. Never have. He died in under half a second. If I had to estimate, I'd say I volleyed ~4 shots in roughly one third of a second. He was running Advanced GalScout. I was running Pro 5 Adv ScR. I haven't done the math, but I'm sure it checks out because this is exactly what happened. And, yes, panicked ScR users "spin-and-win" against shotgunners and nova knifers every day. It is nothing short of a free pass, and the fact that one of longest range rifles available is the very best at it only adds insult to injury. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
HOLY PERFECTION OUTCAST MERCS RISE of LEGION 31	Posted - 2015.02.20 06:15:00 - [139] - Quote Combat rifle Buff. YES!!!!!! *I WILL WIN... DESTINY*
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2398	Posted - 2015.02.20 09:49:00 - [140] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Nice exaggerations. 0.3s Lol. What, did he die in two shots? Unless he was a barebones Minscout and you landed double headshots, he didn't die that fast... Happens every day, huh? I don't make stuff up. He died in under half a second. If I had to estimate, I'd say I volleyed ~4 shots in roughly one third of a second. He was running Advanced GalScout. I was running Pro 5 Adv ScR. I haven't done the math, but I'm sure it checks out because this is exactly what happened. And, yes, panicked ScR users "spin-and-win" against SG and NK Scouts every day. I know this because I see it everyday. It is nothing short of a free pass, and the fact that one of longest range rifles available is the very best at it only adds insult to injury. Its impossible to fire 4 shots in 0.3-0.33s. The fire rate is capped at 600, so it's only possible to fire 1 shot every 0.1s. Considering you also, "spam more slowly" as well, I'm going to assume 4 shots probably takes you 0.55s-0.65s, which is a very average 370-435 RoF. A ~0.6s TTK is average. Any other gun would kill just as fast if they land all shots. You were exaggerating, by alot. You're trying to say the ScR kills roughly 2x faster than it actually does. Also, if a Galscout died in 4 shots, he either had absolutely no HP modules and/ar you landed headshots. Everyday occurances though, right? Or he was previously wounded, in which case he shouldn't have engaged you and deserved to die. Home at Last <3

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6801	Posted - 2015.02.20 12:55:00 - [141] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Nice exaggerations. 0.3s Lol. What, did he die in two shots? Unless he was a barebones Minscout and you landed double headshots, he didn't die that fast... Happens every day, huh? I don't make stuff up. He died in under half a second. If I had to estimate, I'd say I volleyed ~4 shots in roughly one third of a second. He was running Advanced GalScout. I was running Pro 5 Adv ScR. I haven't done the math, but I'm sure it checks out because this is exactly what happened. And, yes, panicked ScR users "spin-and-win" against SG and NK Scouts every day. I know this because I see it everyday. It is nothing short of a free pass, and the fact that one of longest range rifles available is the very best at it only adds insult to injury. Its impossible to fire 4 shots in 0.3-0.33s. The fire rate is capped at 600, so it's only possible to fire 1 shot every 0.1s. Considering you also, "spam more slowly" as well, I'm going to assume 4 shots probably takes you 0.55s-0.65s, which is a very average 370-435 RoF. A ~0.6s TTK is average. Any other gun would kill just as fast if they land all shots. You were exaggerating, by alot. You're trying to say the ScR kills roughly 2x faster than it actually does. It appears that my initial report was off by either 0.1 seconds or 1 shot. I'm not using a stopwatch or a modded controller, so there's going to be some estimation when discussing a very small duration. None of this detracts from my point that one of the longest range rifles in the game doubles as a shotgun in CQC. Fizzer XCIV wrote: Also, if a Galscout died in 4 shots, he either had absolutely no HP modules and/ar you landed headshots. Everyday occurances though, right? Or he was previously wounded, in which case he shouldn't have engaged you and deserved to die. I can tell you with absolute certainly that "spin and win" by ScR users is an everyday problem for NK and SG Scouts. This shotgunner hit me twice in the back before I insta-melted him; he didn't deserve to die, he deserved a win. The fact that I flipped the odds in my favor at minimal effort struck me as a free pass. The fact that I can do it again and again strikes me as a Rifle Balance problem. Current aScR - highly effective at CQC; less effective at Range ScR - highly effective at Range; highly effective at CQC Suggestion aScR - highly effective at CQC; less effective at Range (see ARR) ScR - highly effective at Range; less effective at CQC (see RR) If ScR kills/spawn efficiency is too high and aScR utilization rates too low, it is very likely that the above suggestion would move both statistics in the right direction. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Dreis Shadowweaver T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K RISE of LEGION 1959	Posted - 2015.02.20 19:07:00 - [142] - Quote It's really difficult to see which colour represents which rifle in the graph; they look very similar. Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3 You got gud - DAAAA BEAST
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 1175	Posted - 2015.02.21 11:49:00 - [143] - Quote ScR still OP beyond hell against Caldari suits, hit its em dmg and up its thermal dmg, ie, let it hurt armor a bit more and shields a bit less and RP the reasons cause its insanely far too good at its intended role. Nemo me impune lacessit CCP - Announcing games at the same time as killing the ones you love CCP - No Credibility
Alena Ventrallis Intara Direct Action Caldari State 2551	Posted - 2015.02.21 14:49:00 - [144] - Quote The ScR should absolutely without a doubt be just as effective at 5m as it is as 70m. ALL RIFLES should be just as effective as 5m as they are at the edge of their optimals. What should separate CQC from long range rifles is how quickly and how easily they can apply their damage. Nothing more, nothing less. DPS should be what separates them, not some funky mechanic. And all SCR arguments seem to ignore the fact that you can only get out around 1000 damage before seizing up a ScR unless you use AmAssault, assuming no damage mods. That assumes you land all 16 shots on target. A PR can get out 2380 damage with absolutely no overheat, barely any kick, and you can reset the kick by stopping your fire for a split second. That is over double the damage. The ScR is not even one of the top 10 rifles in market purchases. You know why? Because it is a ***** to learn how to use. Yes, it is very very good if your opponent has low health or is shield based and you can land every single shot. Miss some and that damage is lowered drastically, and then you either have to seize up and wait for it to cool down, or switch to your sidearm to finish the job. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6819	Posted - 2015.02.21 15:04:00 - [145] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: The ScR should absolutely without a doubt be just as effective at 5m as it is as 70m. ALL RIFLES should be just as effective as 5m as they are at the edge of their optimals. What should separate CQC from long range rifles is how quickly and how easily they can apply their damage. Nothing more, nothing less. DPS should be what separates them, not some funky mechanic. There's no point to a short-range rifle if a long-range rifle is just as good from the hip in short range. I disagree with you completely, but I'll play ball. Is it hard or easy pull a trigger really fast while not aiming? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Alena Ventrallis Intara Direct Action Caldari State 2551	Posted - 2015.02.21 15:19:00 - [146] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: The ScR should absolutely without a doubt be just as effective at 5m as it is as 70m. ALL RIFLES should be just as effective as 5m as they are at the edge of their optimals. What should separate CQC from long range rifles is how quickly and how easily they can apply their damage. Nothing more, nothing less. DPS should be what separates them, not some funky mechanic. There's no point to a short-range rifle if a long-range rifle is just as good from the hip in short range. I disagree with you completely, but I'll play ball. Is it hard or easy pull a trigger really fast while not aiming? You missed a paragraph. Alena Ventrallis wrote: And all SCR arguments seem to ignore the fact that you can only get out around 1000 damage before seizing up a ScR unless you use AmAssault, assuming no damage mods. That assumes you land all 16 shots on target. A PR can get out 2380 damage with absolutely no overheat, barely any kick, and you can reset the kick by stopping your fire for a split second. That is over double the damage. The ScR is not even one of the top 10 rifles in market purchases. You know why? Because it is a ***** to learn how to use. Yes, it is very very good if your opponent has low health or is shield based and you can land every single shot. Miss some and that damage is lowered drastically, and then you either have to seize up and wait for it to cool down, or switch to your sidearm to finish the job. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6820	Posted - 2015.02.21 15:45:00 - [147] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: You missed a paragraph: And all SCR arguments seem to ignore the fact that you can only get out around 1000 damage before seizing up a ScR unless you use AmAssault, assuming no damage mods. That assumes you land all 16 shots on target. A PR can get out 2380 damage with absolutely no overheat, barely any kick, and you can reset the kick by stopping your fire for a split second. That is over double the damage. The ScR is not even one of the top 10 rifles in market purchases. You know why? Because it is a ***** to learn how to use. Yes, it is very very good if your opponent has low health or is shield based and you can land every single shot. Miss some and that damage is lowered drastically, and then you either have to seize up and wait for it to cool down, or switch to your sidearm to finish the job. The longer range rifles I've used in other shooters were consistently unwieldy when fired from the hip. They still hit hard and could kill in CQC, but not without significant effort on the part of the shooter. The ScR requires no such effort. Orient oneself toward a target and spam. That's it. Heat management is not difficult to learn, nor is switching to a sidearm to finish the job. There are units in the game without 1000HP. Weapon Balance must take into account their existence. CQC Scouts have every right to viability, and to these units ScR spin-and-win represents a serious balance problem. There is no skill, effort or planning involved. Spin. Spam. Win. It is an expressed Design Goal that all playstyles should be viable. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Alena Ventrallis Intara Direct Action Caldari State 2551	Posted - 2015.02.21 19:17:00 - [148] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: The longer range rifles I've used in other shooters were consistently unwieldy when fired from the hip. They still hit hard and could kill in CQC, but not without significant effort on the part of the shooter. The long-range ScR requires no such effort in close quarters. Orient oneself toward a target and spam. That's it. Heat management is not difficult to learn, nor is switching to a sidearm to finish the job. Anecdotal evidence at best, but let's look at this. What kind of ranges were these weapons? Were they measured in 10s of meters, or 100s? 70m for a weapon is not long range at all. Let's exclude real life weaponry, which can easily reach 300m for a similar style rifle on the low end. Even in video games, 70m is a solid mid-range weapon. As such, classifying the ScR as "long range" is fallicious. The Laser rifle even would be considered mid ranged by other shooter's standards. Of course, this is anecdotal as well, so both our arguments are moot. Adipem Nothi wrote: There are units in the game without 1000HP. Weapon Balance must take into account their existence. It is an expressed Design Goal that all playstyles should be viable, and to the best of my knowledge SG/NK Scouts are still considered to be a legitimate playstyle. To these units ScR spin-and-win is a serious balance problem. Spin. Spam. Win. There is no skill, effort or planning involved. By your logic, the PR is massively OP because all suits have less than 2380 hp. SG/NK scouts are a legitimate playstyle, and have been, right alongside this "OP" ScR for months. As a matter of fact, scouts have long been considered more OP than ScR, if forum rants have been evidence of anything. The reason these low HP suits can survive is a reason you seem to be forgetting: human error. If I miss 5 shots with the ScR, thats about 33% of the total damage you can put out before overheat wasted because of inaccuracy. Missing 5 shots with the PR accounts for about 7.5% of the total damage it can do before reload. ScR punishes misses far more than any other rifle. This is part of the balance of the rifle; either you win or you die. This goes to my argument of ease of use. The ScR has extremely high DPS for a very limited window. If you do not down your opponent inside that window, you either have to switch to a sidearm, stop firing and back off to cool down, or seize up. That's how it's balanced. As well, SG/NK scouts shouldn't be getting shot at at all by the ScR. They should be ambushing from the sides or the rear; a head on charge into an enemy's face should lead to their death no matter what weapon their opponent uses, ScR or otherwise. Adipem Nothi wrote: You say, "What should separate CQC from long range rifles is how quickly and how easily they can apply their damage." I'll ask you again, is it hard or easy pull a trigger really fast while not aiming? Do you fins it hard to hold down the trigger while not aiming with the ACR? Should we nerf it too? How about the PR? It is just as easy as the ACR. Perhaps we should nerf it as well? The ScR is powerful, I will not disagree there. But I know, and have proven here, that the power comes at a price, a price you seem to ignore. Saying all the rifles should be just as useful at 0m as their optimals doesn't mean they should all have the same DPS. The reason the RR should be beaten by the PR in CQC only because the PR has a greater DPS than the RR. While the 1.7 RR had lower DPS than the PR, the reason the RR was considered OP was because the difference in DPS was not great enough to justify the much greater range over the PR, but I digress. The reason the SCR needs CQC ability is because the rifle's should be the generalist weapon. They should adequately cover CQC and the edge of their optimals. The ScR does this, and has a punishing overheat to balance it's greater potential DPS. The problem we have is people want the rifles to be only good at one or the other, and that's not how it should be. Whereas the SG/NK are pure CQC, and the SR/LR are strictly mid-long range, the rifles should be the bridge between the two; decent at both, but not as good as the specialized weapons. Now as to your argument that they are too effective against shields, I actually agree with you; I proposed about a month ago a fix for that. But as far as its performance in general, the ScR is fine. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6826	Posted - 2015.02.22 02:37:00 - [149] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: The longer range rifles I've used in other shooters were consistently unwieldy when fired from the hip. They still hit hard and could kill in CQC, but not without significant effort on the part of the shooter. The long-range ScR requires no such effort in close quarters. Orient oneself toward a target and spam. Anecdotal evidence at best, but let's look at this. What kind of ranges were these weapons? The weapons I had in mind were the MK14 and FAD from MW3. MK14: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdzOtdDoEOc FAD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Erf9qrQhYBw#t=94 Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2400	Posted - 2015.02.22 09:09:00 - [150] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: The longer range rifles I've used in other shooters were consistently unwieldy when fired from the hip. They still hit hard and could kill in CQC, but not without significant effort on the part of the shooter. The long-range ScR requires no such effort in close quarters. Orient oneself toward a target and spam. Anecdotal evidence at best, but let's look at this. What kind of ranges were these weapons? The weapons I had in mind were the FAD and the MK14 from MW3. One rifle is as accurate as a submachine gun from the hip but relatively weak at range. The other rifle is absolutely devastating down range but horribly inaccurate from the hip. These are two ends of the rifle spectrum from one CoD title. As a rule of thumb in all CoD titles, the more effective a weapon is down range, the less effective it is when spammed from the hip. I know that Dust isn't CoD, but that doesn't mean we can't look to CoD and appreciate the things it has done right. Weapon balance is one of those things. We can't look at CoD for this type of thing, actually. Tracking shooters and twitch shooters need to be balanced extremely differently. When it takes 10x the bullets to kill, balance has to be almost completely reworked from the ground up. A better example is the DMR in Halo. Great hipfire despite longer range. Or the Scout Rifles in Destiny. But even those aren't perfect examples. Both of those games have high jumps and very strong aim assist reliance. So the hipfire in Dust shouldn't be that tight, because we don't have to track high jumps here, and the playing field is less level because out aim assistance isnt as strong. The ScR hipfire is balanced as it is for the type of game Dust is. Home at Last <3



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