A spit-balled idea:

Is it possible to have some variant of UHAV that goes away with a "main turret" completely, and instead has the driver using 1 / 2 small turrets in lieu of it's main turret?

Basic Idea:
UHAV Variant: 2 small turrets (need gunners), and a top mounted 1/2-gun linked Small Turret

This way you could have a tank type that purely focuses on AI by giving up most if not all of it's AV capability. The smaller turrets having advantage of very quick tracking speed, and having the twin sponsors for a greater volume of fire. (trading quantity for quality to better handle infantry)

Think: Imperial Guard Leman Russ Annihilator (2x Lascannons mount)

I think you might need some help reading spreadsheets. Apart from one second, the madrugar outreps the gunlogi total hps for every second, with a basic rep. Yes 4000 takes longer to rep than 2685, not a surprise.

AS PER HIS OWN SPREADSHEET.

I'm pretty sure rattati said the gunlogi would be 5 high 2 low, madrugar 2 high 5 low. As per his spreadsheet.

pokey, why are you trying to balance numbers around modules that don't exist and modules that are going to be adjusted?

If armor hardeners reduce more damage then the numbers will be even more favorable for the madruger, we need to focus on what rattati has discussed he is working on rather than theorize about potential components.





ill let rattati read both our stances and judge for himself.

pokey's providing rattati active feedback doc, complete with numbers and spreadsheets to back it up. I'm working on turrets and handheld AV. Thaddeus is working on a future vision thing. If Rattati uses our numbers, neat. If not, his decision.

All three of us think inherent regen is too high, both on passive gunnlogi regen and on the passive armor reps.

Right now, so far as I can tell, Rattati is working on hull stats and balancing them out. Modules and turrets come after the hulls are bashed out. Once Rattati has the turrets and modules bashed out, I'll be making recommendations for handheld AV.

This is a process, and until Rattati says the numbers are final, it's still a work in progress. You're crystal balling and making assumptions. Why don't you talk TO Pokey instead of trying to argue why he's wrong? You might get some actual data because for once the damn Dev doing the work isn't being a secretive cave troll and when he talks about what he wants to do we're listening.

pokey, why are you trying to balance numbers around modules that don't exist and modules that are going to be adjusted?

If armor hardeners reduce more damage then the numbers will be even more favorable for the madruger, we need to focus on what rattati has discussed he is working on rather than theorize about potential components.





ill let rattati read both our stances and judge for himself.

as per this being a process I am providing my feedback and explaining myself.

My feedback can be discarded if it is deemed useless, but I will add my voice.

shield tanks need high regen as they rep less hp per second, if there has been numbers and modules released that are not in any of these feedback posts that have been confirmed to be worked on by Rattati then I have not seen them.

I want the hulls to be balanced for for thier intended rolls.

To avoid a nitro blaster madrugar instantly repping at 400 hps while hardened being the new go to frame, I would avoid reducing the 168 inherent shield reps when they already are at a disadvantage of a 4 second delay.

I have said my piece on the subject, I understand you disagree but that's how discussions go.

as per this being a process I am providing my feedback and explaining myself.

My feedback can be discarded if it is deemed useless, but I will add my voice.

shield tanks need high regen as they rep less hp per second, if there has been numbers and modules released that are not in any of these feedback posts that have been confirmed to be worked on by Rattati then I have not seen them.

I want the hulls to be balanced for for thier intended rolls.

To avoid a nitro blaster madrugar instantly repping at 400 hps while hardened being the new go to frame, I would avoid reducing the 168 inherent shield reps when they already are at a disadvantage of a 4 second delay.

I have said my piece on the subject, I understand you disagree but that's how discussions go.

Yeah, 400 HP/s madrugars are not on the horizon. Dunno where the hell you're getting that number.

This is like the goddamn Logi Slayer thing. The triplerep madrugar is a thing no one is interested in repeating and everyone knows what caused it so quit crying that the sky is falling.

On the future unless plans have changed:

Regulators
Something resembling an energizer/recharger


To my knowledge Rattati's not looking at keeping the ungodly native and passive module rep rates. But bluntly what will happen is if you take a Gunnlogi and don't fit any regen mods but the madrugar dumps space into reps he will outrep the gunnlogi. Just like what happens when a galassault stacks five reps in the lows. This of course, will result in horrible bad things happening because of the lack of sufficient buffer to matter.

If there is any change to armor hardeners, which would help balance turrets, and which I am in favor of, the inherect shield reps of gunlogis would be too low, unless there is some module in the works to significantly increase the recharge rate.

Just sayin

But then it would be beyond defenseless against any vehicle...

If there is any change to armor hardeners, which would help balance turrets, and which I am in favor of, the inherect shield reps of gunlogis would be too low, unless there is some module in the works to significantly increase the recharge rate.

Just sayin

a HAV fitted with a medium turret (turet with the capibilities between that of a small and large turret) would be really good. a faster, decently armored HAV that gives up a large turret to be able to fight infantry. This reminds me of something........

Oh yea, my BO HAV idea, maybe adjusted.

While the topic of regen is still floating about, why don't we look to EVE for ideas to implement into Dust?

Generalized summary on shields in EVE:
-Always passively recharging, though at a variable rate which is at a max around 30% shields
-Shield recharge per ship is around a base time to full recharge
---This means that adding extenders increases the hp/s
---Allows for passive fits that rely only on resists and recharge rates while maintaining a large shield buffer
-Active shield tanking draws a higher capacitor usage as opposed to active armor tanking
---Shield boosters and active hardeners are harder to run for a longer period of time than their armor counterparts
-Penalty on extenders is what would equate to an increased hitbox in Dust
-Shield tanked ships generally have less utility (medium slots), but a better ability to fit fitting enhancements and turret upgrades (low slots)
-Caldari ships are the slowest before plates are added to Amarr ships

Armor:
-Can only be repaired actively
-Armor reps and active armor hardeners draw less capacitor than their shield counterparts, allowing them to be run for a much longer time or for an indefinite amount of time
-Armor fits can get a higher armor buffer than comparable shield buffers
---Passive armor tanking uses hardeners and plates to maximize EHP (no reps)
---Theory is that you have more EHP than what you would be able to rep back in an engagement
-Gallente focus more on armor rep, Amarr focuses more on bricking

I'm wondering if it will be worth a try to implement some of these features into Dust. We could base shield recharge on a base time to full recharge (which of course means that extenders will increase the hp/s) and make it constant and uninterruptible. This could equate to somewhere between 30-40 base shield per second on an unfitted Gunnlogi. Considerably worse than what one active armor rep could achieve. For a passively tanked Gunnlogi, your base shield should be roughly doubled with two extenders, increasing your recharge to 60-80 shield/s, and with maybe two recharger modules you should be able to add around 50% more for a final recharge rate of 90-120 shield/s. You might notice that shield recharges provide a smaller boost, though they should be considerably easier to fit.

This seems to address people's concerns that shield gets a natural regen that's simply too high for having to spend zero modules on. The fit I described seems appropriate for what I consider to be a competitive passive fit. Also, fitting your high slots with damage amps and/or other utility modules and armor tanking your Gunnlogi will no longer give you the benefits of a high shield recharge.

Another parallel than can be drawn with EVE is to have armor reps have a longer active duration than shield boosters and to provide more HP at the end of their run. I forget how shield boosters and armor reps compared in terms of hp/s. Armor reps can also have a shorter cooldown to replicate capacitor recovery in EVE due to their smaller cap requirements.

One last thing I'd like to add: new module inspiration from EVE. Capacitor batteries and capacitor recharge relays. In Dust, we can have a module that increases module active duration (larger cap pool) and a module that decreases cooldown time (faster cap recovery). (I know that this is generalized but for Dust it could work). The first is a high slot module and the second is a low slot module. Perfect for making armor reps last for a longer time and reducing the longer cooldown times of the shield booster.

If the DHAVs are well done I'd skill this character into HAVs JUST for DHAVS.

I love doing lots of damage then dying in glorious fire

If the DHAVs are well done I'd skill this character into HAVs JUST for DHAVS.

I love doing lots of damage then dying in glorious fire

I don't see why people feel the need to depart from the existing shield/armor mechanics we have in Dust. They're so set on making shields recharge constantly, yet armor already works that way. If people want to run passive fits, why are they not just running armor?

Always been preferable to the concept of a UHAV just because I was always interested in Warhammer 40K. In particular... The Baneblade. Nothing more interesting that a giant mechanism of war rolling up and laying waste to everything in proximity and forcing that 'We need reinforcements!' aspect of warfare. Suppression and fear sort of deal.

Then again, I've also been heavily interested in stuff like Self-Propelled Artillery and Indirect Bombardment.

Anything that puts the fear into a lot of infantry and makes them want to reconsider what they're doing at the time.

I really like your last idea. Modules that affect Cooldown and duration of modules would be great and add variety. +1 for that

We do have skills for that too.

me too, thats why my kdr is in hell

I see no reason why there shouldn't be viable active and passive fits, and any fits inbetween, for both shield and armor.

Otherwise what's your opinion on what I had to say about passive shield recharge and making it low to start off with but can be increased through fitting shield modules (and thus only giving the advantage of a faster recharge to those who actually shield tank their vehicle).

smart stuff on the first page

I am Looking forward for future DHAV tankers thinking its going to be them running the battlefield.