Literal cookie cutter fits.

so far we're looking at a 4/1 layout for caldari UHAVs and DHAVs

Looks like the Main Battle Tanks are sitting at 5/2 so far.

check it out. It's all in the spreadsheet

Rattati, just a thought but is it technically possible to add 'vehicle equipment' slots to all vehicles then move non-weapon non-tank modules like MCRU's, scanners & propulsion modules into these vehicular equipment slots?

Iteration on this would allow for new equipment types (bubble shields, remote reps, etc) and for pilot suits to modify the effects of these 'equipment' slots.

Those who are interested can take a look at the WIP progress for capacity, for UHAVs, DHAVs and HAVs in the Final Proposal Caldari Hulls. It also has most of the skills/specializations/modules that are needed in phase 1. Duplicating this sheet for Gallente tomorrow.

Totally a sweet idea, but probably not for this pass. I love vehicle utility and want it done right, and this idea has merit, but perhaps we should hold off until the base is done?

Those who are interested can take a look at the WIP progress for capacity, for UHAVs, DHAVs and HAVs in the Final Proposal Caldari Hulls. It also has most of the skills/specializations/modules that are needed in phase 1. Duplicating this sheet for Gallente tomorrow.

My thoughts on bonuses for the tanks released in phase 1 (Minmatar and Amarr vehicle bonuses can be dicussed later, when they are closer to being released)

HAV operation 1 unlocks Caldari and Gallente HAV operation. 1% bonus to something per level so it's not useless past 1.

Caldari HAV operation unlocks Std MBT at 1, ADV at 3, PRO at 5 (obvious) Not sure if DHAV and UHAV should be unlocked separately or at the same level. If same level, both are unlocked at 3. If different, DHAV is unlocked at 3, UHAV at 5. 2% bonus to shield recharge per level.

Caldari UHAV operation unlocks STD Marauder at 1. 2% bonus to shield HP and resistance per level, plus Marader bonus of 5% to small turret fitting bonus and damage.

Caldari DHAV operation unlocks STD Enforcer at 1. 5% bonus to Large Missile damage and reload per level, plus Enforcer bonus of 5% to Large Turret fitting reduction.

Gallente HAV operation goes the same as Caldari, 2% bonus to armor repair per level.

Gallente UHAV operation unlocks STD Marauder at 1. 2% bonus to armor HP and Resistance per level, plus Marader bonus to small turrets.

Gallente DHAV operation unlocks STD enforcer at 1. 5% bonus to Large Blaster Damage and Dispersion(or Reload) per level, plus Enforcer bonus to Large Turrets.

What do you guys think of those?

why isnt there a shield recharger module? i want that option of having full passive fit. im annoyed that armor can get better passive reps than shields.

I think it is a very good idea to make the generic racial HAV skill give a bonus specifically to the tanking style of that race, and make that bonus apply to all HAVs of that race (Even the DHAVs and UHAVs)

Amarr: +% Reduction to Speed Penalty from Armor Plates
Caldari: +% Bonus to Shield Recharge Rate
Gallente: +% Bonus to Armor Repair Rate
Minmatar: +% Reduction to Shield Recharge Delay

I seem to remember an exploit where HP Boosting skills actually allowed a driver to hop in and out of a vehicle to artificially regenerate HP. For example a +25% Bonus to shield HAV, when the drive got in the vehicle the base 4000 would increase to 5000. However if say he was reduced to 2500/5000 HP, he would hop out, the max HP would decrease to 4000 so the HAV would have 2500/4000, he would hop back in and it would increase the HP of the vehicle by 25%, pushing it to 3125/5000. This is why the +% HP skills were change to +% Damage Resistance back in the day. Now I don't know the status of this exploit, but it is something to keep in mind when adding any sort of +% HP skill bonuses, as you may want to consider damage resistance instead (which I find to be a better bonus than HP anyways due to its added effects on regeneration).

Fitting reduction for small turrets is kind of pointless since the turrets are prefit and the resources scaled appropriately to accommodate them. Though I have to ask, if we're able to swap the turrets out, would players not be able to just swap to a lower tiered turret in order to free up resources to bolster defenses further? I guess in that regard you could give a flat Role Bonus of a significant drop in the cost of small turrets. This would mean that even downgrading them would free up minimal resources, thus lessening the effect. However I don't think that should be the scaling general role bonus for the UHAV but rather a flat bonus that doesn't increase per level, as it would be crucial in properly balancing PG/CPU in the design phase.

UHAV
Role Bonus:
% Reduction to PG/CPU of Small Turrets (flat bonus)
+% Bonus to Small Turret Damage
Amarr:
+% Reduction to Small Turret Heat Buildup
+% Bonus to Armor Damage Resistance
Caldari:
+% Bonus to Small Turret Reload Speed (Or Missile Velocity)
+% Bonus to Shield Damage Resistance
Gallente:
+% Reduction to Small Turret Dispersion
+% Bonus to Armor Damage Resistance
Minmatar:
+% Bonus to Small Turret Splash Radius
+% Bonus to Shield Damage Resistance


DHAV
Role Bonus:
+% Bonus to Large Turret Damage
Amarr:
+% Reduction to Large Turret Heat Buildup
+% Bonus Powertrain Enhancer (Active High, Increase Vehicle Turn Speed)
Caldari:
+% Bonus to Large Turret Reload Speed (Or Missile Velocity)
+% Bonus to Nanofiber Modules (Passive Low, Increased Speed/Acceleration at cost of armor HP)
Gallente:
+% Reduction to Large Turret Dispersion
+% Bonus to Fuel Injector Modules (Active High)
Minmatar:
+% Bonus to Large Turret Tracking Speed
+% Bonus to Overdrive Modules (Passive Low, Increase Torque/Acceleration)

Alright, so just change the HP Bonus to a resist Bonus? 4% would be good then. I'm trying to keep the DHAV Damage bonus higher than the UHAV defense bonus to keep the UHAV in check. What do you think about the DHAV getting a fitting bonus towards Large Turrets/damage mods for the role bonus, then bonuses to each races respective turret on their tanks?

What do you think of giving DHAVs a lower scan profile than MBTs, and UHAVS a slightly higher scan profile?

(Or in case I got that wrong: DHAVs being harder to spot, UHAVS being easier)

The idea being that DHAVs are more hunters, and as such would want the lower scan profile to be more easily able to dictate when the grounds of an engagement, and UHAVs being more detectable in exchange for the fire power / armor.

Since Rattati has stated that DHAVs would not be rail-capable, we would not need to worry about Hidden snipers, and it would allow DHAVs to be a bit more "stealthy" (in terms of Tank vs Tank battles) which would give them an edge on trying to do ambush like tactics.

As for UHAVs it matters little about their scan profile, since they are AI, and will never really be able to "sneak" up on Infantry units.

Also, taking this idea further: Perhaps a module that reduces Scan Profile by a % to potentially allow "Scout Tank" gameplay?

There will be no DHAV rail fit, I will make it so, whether through fitting bonuses or something even heavier handed.

Here is the quote in question.

I'm not too interested in any tanks being scanning platforms, just making it so that the DHAV and UHAV are slightly harder/easier (for a tank) to see.

4-5% per level is pretty reasonable given their reduce slot count. It lets them decently tank even when the hardeners are on cooldown.

As for the damage bonus you don't want to get too crazy with it and totally bone MBTs, but their additional slots will help a little to counteract that. I wont delve into numbers too much with that, as its highly dependent on where the eHP and turret values land.

Again the Large Turret Fitting reduction....well kinda goes along with the bit I spoke about with the smalls. Since the vehicle comes pre-fit with a turret and the PG/CPU is already modified specifically to handle that turret, offering the fitting reduction as a bonus is kind of pointless since the hull is already tailored to fit the cost of the gun. A flat role bonus to reduction may help to negate the "downgrade" issue I mentioned with the smalls but that will probably be less of a problem with the DHAVs.

As for Damage Mods that's kind of a tough one, as Armor Hulls would likely benefit from the bonus more than Shield since they don't have to sacrifice any main-rack slots to use them.

Also I'm going under the assumption that we're not getting racial turrets anytime soon, so Im trying to keep bonuses very generic for the sake of Amarr and Minmatar which don't have proper racial turrets.

The damage mod problem for shield tanks could be lessened with passive damage mods in the lows, with 5%/7%/10% for the progression. I was thinking that there should be passive utility mods in the lows, active in the highs like we had before. For example, passive and active damage mods, speed mods, heat sinks, scanning mods even. Would give shield tanks a lot more fitting options for their low slots, which helps Them not have to use armor stuff.

Hmmm well that's sorta true, except the active damage mod would theoretically gain more of a benefit due to a larger base value. As for the Active/Passive High/Low duality, totally on board with that and it adds in some much needed options for low slots. I think we can also use PG limitations to really hinder shield vehicles from fitting plates.

Perhaps instead have different Large Turrets have different weapon mod slots?

For example:
Rail should be a low slot (lore reason: Using more power, Game Reason: Paired with Shield Tanks)
Blaster should be high
Missile should be ... high / low? (Depending on Missile Type? AV vs AI)

Another idea would be to have separate weapon mods for the small turrets, with these providing larger benefits per mod (Let's say... 2 x as effective?) This way tanks, especially UHAVs, have a way of increasing the AI capability.

These mods for small turrets need not be straight damage, they could be heat, ammo, accuracy, etc

I actually would prefer having a smaller boost all the time. I don't like active reliant fits, which is why I REALLY want my passive shield resist mods to come back. Back then, I could slap on two supplemental amplifiers and get constant 30% damage reduction. Then I had 1 large extender and a booster, the only active mod on the fit. Had about 4500 shields, constant 30% damage reduction, and I could regen my shields if I needed to.

Onto the second part, the PG would have to be extremely high for plates, otherwise the Proto Shield vehicles will still be able to use them, which we don't want. Same goes for CPU on shield mods, so armor can't use them effectively. I'm pretty sure that dual tanked Surya's were the most OP tanks we had, and we don't need that again.

These last three pages are the final straw. I will ask community managers to delete all nonuseful feedback and ban those who don't abide by my terms. This is a formal dev feedback thread, feel free to complain in your own threads, those who don't get banned that is.

Heavily disagree. Changes way to much.

Fair enough, I can agree on the point with the small turrets. (Just trying to spit ball ideas)

However, I would argue a bit more on the main damage mods.

Why do you feel that changing the slot layout for different types is too extreme? As I understand it, Rattati is already leaning toward splitting of damage mods to be different mods per weapon. With that in mind, I feel it would not be too extreme to split these mods off to be in different slots.

I agree with Pokey on that adding passive on top of active mods would be too much when combined, especially on DHAVs. I am of the opinion that TTK is currently fine as is (for the most part) between tanks. Adding additional damage would only drive that down.

I find it disheartening if he is considering this. Typically all damage modules (the ones that increase DPS in EVE) are low slots with certain kinds of modifications being split between Medium and Low slots.

Active Systems are usually put in the Medium Slots Group however no examples of damage increasing modules to my knowledge exist in the Medium Slots.

Passive Systems are usually put in the Low Slots Group.

The only other two means off the top of my head that might directly increase the damage of your guns would be Drugs and Rig Slots, however neither of those exist in Dust.