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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 66 post(s) |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance
812
|
Posted - 2015.01.22 07:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:What's the plausibility of changing turret mechanics?
For instance, the Fragmented Large Missile Turret having missiles that have bullet drop instead of firing straight? A blaster that fires much slower with high damage rounds primarily for AV use?
Just a few spit-balled ideas.
As far as the overall progression presentation demonstrated in the OP I found it rather... confusing. Need time to wrap my head around it and the spreadsheet before I can give better feedback, but even then it'll be limited for reasons mentioned in the previous thread. No physics based changes. Current mechanics can be changed.
Can we allow a driver to operate all three turrets at once if no one else is in the tank? As people get in they would take control of them.
The operation would be that you would aim your main turret as normal, and the small turrets would attempt to aim at that location as well. When you shoot all turrets capable of hitting the target would fire, any others such as the front turret when aiming behind you would not fire, or the too turret when aiming too far down as it would hit the tank instead.
If this is not possible, can we add the small turrets to the module wheel so we can switch to them without having to change seats? This would let us move and operate our small turrets when needed, either against infantry or drop ships.
And can we get vehicle mounted swarm launchers? |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance
812
|
Posted - 2015.01.22 08:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:What's the plausibility of changing turret mechanics?
For instance, the Fragmented Large Missile Turret having missiles that have bullet drop instead of firing straight? A blaster that fires much slower with high damage rounds primarily for AV use?
Just a few spit-balled ideas.
As far as the overall progression presentation demonstrated in the OP I found it rather... confusing. Need time to wrap my head around it and the spreadsheet before I can give better feedback, but even then it'll be limited for reasons mentioned in the previous thread. No physics based changes. Current mechanics can be changed. Can we allow a driver to operate all three turrets at once if no one else is in the tank? As people get in they would take control of them. The operation would be that you would aim your main turret as normal, and the small turrets would attempt to aim at that location as well. When you shoot all turrets capable of hitting the target would fire, any others such as the front turret when aiming behind you would not fire, or the too turret when aiming too far down as it would hit the tank instead. If this is not possible, can we add the small turrets to the module wheel so we can switch to them without having to change seats? This would let us move and operate our small turrets when needed, either against infantry or drop ships. And can we get vehicle mounted swarm launchers? The turrets are there for team play, not for commanders to be even more efficient at everything.
Why is there no option besides ADS to operate a small turret as a driver?
You want battles to escalate, then we need a vehicle similar to the LAV that we can use as AI. Small and cheap. Could we allow driver to operate the small turret on LAVs?
Currently we no ground based solo AI vehicle |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance
816
|
Posted - 2015.01.24 00:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:Ratattati:
I am excited for the proposed changes and for the chance to see different fittings on vehicles.
- the loadouts you have on the sheet you made are terrible builds, please do not balance around these.
Gunlogis need two hardeners at least vs todays iteration of av, rails, missles and nitro ramming blaster maddies, just to peek out of the redline... Nitro in the high=death. Anyone fitting a gunlogi with an armor rep is going to have problems. Madrugars need Nitro to close the gap and to get away from av as they can't tank as much damage as a double hardened Gunlogi.
For the Gunlogi, this means 2 high slots will forever be spoken for by hardeners unless you want to pop everytime advanced swarms lock on you. Madrugars have either lots or armor or lots of reps and nitro. Doesn't leave much wiggle room for build diversity.
If the new advanced and proto hulls have any chance of survival with the current slot layout ( 3/2 2/3 ) they will need stat buffs equal to a proto hardener or shield extender for caldari, armor plate or armor repper for gallente, otherwise there is not much point to skilling up to get marginally more ehp when a bunny hopping minmitar commando is still going to pop you in 5 seconds from behind random hill number 32. Even with gunners on all turrets, hit detection with swarms is near 100% and if he is on top of some building or tower that the tank can't even aim up at then 1 player > 3 players plus 100xs isk.
The damage buffs per level seem to make sense and I like the increase to shield regen and armor. I would like to see a madrugar blaster fit be able to survive as long as a double hardened gunlogi blaster fit vs todays alpha av damage as it is a much better chassis to shoot infantry with.
hey i run a gunnlogi with a nitro, light shield booster, extender, plate and light rep. missile turret. you would be surprised what i can do with it lol |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance
816
|
Posted - 2015.01.24 07:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Guys
I am doing my homework here, with the loadouts. I started a brand new character and walked exactly through the steps of "what mighe each fit be with a given PG/CPU", without using PG/CPU mods. That means using suboptimal fits to experiment and get a fit under the cap.
To do a full PRO tank, and leaving the small turrets, we need way higher PG/CPU, and or some core PG/CPU skills, that I like actually.
I need to do this first in an environment that is known, IE 7. Once I have bashed out all the requirements for that to work, there shouldn't be any problem going to 7 slots. Problem is that that may require a little different approach with progression, because I don't want to rebalance all module efficiencies at the same time to make sure 7 slots isn't OP.
So, please propose eHP reduction that follows going to 7, because brick tanking should not be a thing.
Also, recommend some shield modules for lows.
Also, list out the unusable modules, and give hints on how to fix them, f.ex. shield boosters and the like. "What would they have to be like for me to start using them"
Thanks!
or you could give us our pilot suits. let the pilot suit reduce the fitting cost of modules as a role bonus |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance
819
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 06:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Hey Rattati full breakdowns of the AV capacity of the weapons is more or less done.
I only have the nova knives and flaylock but after looking at the mass driver I'm going to go out on a limb and call bot weapons' AV capacity minimal. Good for a finisher though. I should be able to finish both of them in a few hours after I calculate the level 5 PG/CPU and splash for the mass driver.
Spreadsheet link in signature. Cool, and appreciated. I have been thinking with the possible escalation of HAV strength, that MD and LR could be more useful against vehicles, and possibly IP and Flaylock as well. I don't think that making AI weapons, especially sidearms into viable AV weapons is a REALLY bad idea. That would make AV weapons more useless, and makes Pilots jobs harder, because more people has AV on hand. Also, it will have people asking why X weapon is both AI and AV, but not Y, and it will get to the point where AV is useless unless buffed to where they would be OP, and then that will make vehicles even harder to use. And I definitely don't want that at all. Players don't have a way to have meaningful AV unless primary. Most other FPS games have a way to have a secondary weapon, meaning that players can gang up on vehicles and take them down. That is definitely where I intend to go, while maintaining balance.
So are AV grenades being removed or something? Because those fit what you're looking for. No need to make sidearms something they're not supposed to be.
If you want people to have the option of ganging up on a vehicle to take it down then make flux grenades disable vehicle movement for a couple seconds. Now squads or teams can flux a stupid pilot that gets too close and hold him while others AV grenade him. Problem solved AV nades and flux become useful, but not OP solo.
EDIT: or instead of flux grenade disabling vehicle movement, let them slow them down for a few seconds. And let the movement penalty stack so multiple flux grenades slow it down even more |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance
819
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 10:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
Av flux grenades would be awesome, and simple. |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance
825
|
Posted - 2015.01.27 00:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Vell0cet wrote:All kinds of EVE things My opinion is that active and passive fitting is perfect for vehicle combat in an FPS. Don't forget, EVE does not have WASD movement, it is inherently less dependent on user input, and that's why it has more point and click combat, managing heat, capacity, ammo, ewar etc. Capacitors are just one thing that could be done, needs balancing and design like any other system. Another layer of complexity does not seem like what we need when there are so many low hanging fruit. Just going through the misery of starting to go into vehicles has opened my eyes to the HAV plight of fitting and skilling. On the other hand, in battle it's been a breeze, as in I'm having fun. I also think that a Maddie Blaster fit should be the first tank new players skill into as the turret speed is more forgiving and the charge-up of the rail makes it so much less easy to use than one might think coming from BF, for instance.
Eve has WASD controls. Was released for beta testing a couple patches ago.
Short of capacitors, can you allow partial cool downs for modules if we deactivate them early? |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance
825
|
Posted - 2015.01.27 07:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Vell0cet wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Vell0cet wrote:All kinds of EVE things My opinion is that active and passive fitting is perfect for vehicle combat in an FPS. Don't forget, EVE does not have WASD movement, it is inherently less dependent on user input, and that's why it has more point and click combat, managing heat, capacity, ammo, ewar etc. Capacitors are just one thing that could be done, needs balancing and design like any other system. Another layer of complexity does not seem like what we need when there are so many low hanging fruit. Just going through the misery of starting to go into vehicles has opened my eyes to the HAV plight of fitting and skilling. On the other hand, in battle it's been a breeze, as in I'm having fun. I also think that a Maddie Blaster fit should be the first tank new players skill into as the turret speed is more forgiving and the charge-up of the rail makes it so much less easy to use than one might think coming from BF, for instance. I appreciate you taking the time to respond. While I'm disappointed that capacitors aren't on the short or medium-term horizon, I appreciate that you're at least communicating that to us. I don't really see capacitors as another layer of complexity. I see it as unifying the complexity of multiple cooldowns that we currently have. It's actually a simplification of the current system. You're right that not everything in EVE should transfer to DUST/Legion. They ARE different styles of games, and managing lots of systems is a big part of EVE's combat experience that wouldn't translate well to DUST--I agree with you there. For one thing, I don't think overheating would make sense in an FPS. It requires too much micromanagement. But with the ability to configure your HAV to your taste, you would have the option to build cap-stable fits that require LESS management than what we have now. It gives the player freedom and flexibility. I also see it as a major balancing tool for you guys. Right now you can really only tweak things that directly increase or decrease survivability. This would give you other variables to tweak that would affect survivability only indirectly. I feel like it would probably be useful to have those balancing options in your toolkit. I know you're not a huge EVE player, but there is a lot of manual piloting in EVE, trying to maintain transversal against your opponent and position properly (If you're clicking "orbit" or "approach" in PvP, you're doing it wrong). Honestly I don't see much changing from a module-management standpoint with the addition of capacitors. You may have to turn a few things off more often to conserve cap, but it would be unwise for a player to fit more active modules than he can manage on his HAV. I'm sure there's a sweet-spot of module count that's reasonable to manage while still engaging in visceral FPS vehicle combat (a repper, prop mod, maybe a hardener or two, it's really not that crazy). I hope this has been at least somewhat helpful in terms of maybe influencing your thinking of how/when capacitors might fit into a longer-term roadmap. In my opinion it would be a mistake to write capacitors off as adding complexity to an already complex game. I don't want to derail any progress. It seems like the train is already too far past the station at this point, so I'll respectfully bow out. As always, thanks for your hard work. o7 Now, could you send me on [email protected] your thoughts/designs so I can truly see how it could pan out. Really don't like closing doors, but sometimes it's necessary.
its not difficult to me in my mind. Eve calls it capacitor, but dust has it too, its just unnamed. Capacitor in eve has "cooldown", just like dust.
the simplest way i can think of doing "capacitor' in dust is to give a pool of energy for vehicles that constantly recharges at some rate. activating modules eats up energy at some rate. as along as module activation cost is lower than energy recharge, you can run all modules forever. but going ove the energy recharge rate would drain your energy and if you run out then all your modules shut off and you have to wait and recharge energy to use them.
the most basic example i can give in dust where this currently already exist(ed) is with vehicle blaster turrets combined with heat sinks. the heat sink let you use the blaster longer before it overheats. when it overheated you have to wait for a cooldown. if you managed to get the cooldown rate high enough you could shoot the blasters forever though.
this same mechanic can be used for vehicle active modules. does that make any sense? |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance
826
|
Posted - 2015.01.27 16:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:question, shield boosters in low? Given that similar to dropsuits, all vehicles get a slim natural rep, so as to not be forced to fit a rep mod in a low. 1. Nope - Never been low slots ever but what is the reasoning for this? That was not the question. There is no shield based mod available, like regulators for dropsuits.
it was called power diagnostic unit. it gave a modest bonus to shield hp, shield recharge, and PG. it was for pilots that wanted a full passive shield tank setup.
that was back when tank shields had no delay though, so id also add shield delay reduction to it as well or replace the PG bonus for the shield delay reduction. |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance
826
|
Posted - 2015.01.27 16:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:question, shield boosters in low? Given that similar to dropsuits, all vehicles get a slim natural rep, so as to not be forced to fit a rep mod in a low. I'm going to say....yes/no. I think Shield Boosters, as in a module which when activated quickly regenerates shields, should remain in the high. There are several EVE modules (some of which we've had in Dust before) which increase *natural* shield regen and go in the low slot. The biggest one that comes to mind is the Power Diagnostic System, providing a small boost to Shield HP, Natural Shield Recharge, and PG capacity. It's an awesome module and I used it frequently in the past, so definitely bring those back if possible. The reason I'm against shield boosters in the low is that Shield Vehicles would be able to fit HP/Resists in the highs and then their main regen in the lows, whereas armor would have to fit all 3 in the low, and reppers really should not be high slot items, I feel this deviates too much from EVE mechanics and could be confusing to players. Additionally I'd like to see Shield Regulators in the lows and possibly Armor Pumps in the highs (Increase to the rate of armor repairers but don't actually repair by themselves). Regs it is. before you go with regs, can you tell us about vehicle shield mechanics? do they still have delay? damage thresholds? does the shield boost still jump start shield regen?
shield regs could be redundant unless they removed the shield delay as a booster would accomplish the same thing but also boost shield hp |
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance
827
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 17:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
why isnt there a shield recharger module? i want that option of having full passive fit. im annoyed that armor can get better passive reps than shields. |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance
828
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 21:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:all i know, is that I want to drive both uhavs and havs. i can imagine the rush of speeding around, almost lav speed, and just blasting tanks, in and out. I think it could be a great way to break out of a camp, keep moving and pick your targets wisely. Isn't this also about making tank combat a little more fun?
sure. but we also want tanks to matter. tanks have no role. logi lavs and dropships had a role to heal infantry and tanks. lavs are basically taxis. ADS is close ground support.
but tanks? what is there currently that everyone can point to and say..."we need a tank for this?" tanks used to be used to gain an advantage by killing RDVs but now they disappear before we can kill them most of the time.
please, let this be only the beginning of the work for vehicles and not a one shot fix. We need a reason for calling in tanks in the first place. |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance
829
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 07:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:DarthJT5 wrote:Harpyja wrote:While the topic of regen is still floating about, why don't we look to EVE for ideas to implement into Dust?
Generalized summary on shields in EVE: -Always passively recharging, though at a variable rate which is at a max around 30% shields -Shield recharge per ship is around a base time to full recharge ---This means that adding extenders increases the hp/s ---Allows for passive fits that rely only on resists and recharge rates while maintaining a large shield buffer -Active shield tanking draws a higher capacitor usage as opposed to active armor tanking ---Shield boosters and active hardeners are harder to run for a longer period of time than their armor counterparts -Penalty on extenders is what would equate to an increased hitbox in Dust -Shield tanked ships generally have less utility (medium slots), but a better ability to fit fitting enhancements and turret upgrades (low slots) -Caldari ships are the slowest before plates are added to Amarr ships
Armor: -Can only be repaired actively -Armor reps and active armor hardeners draw less capacitor than their shield counterparts, allowing them to be run for a much longer time or for an indefinite amount of time -Armor fits can get a higher armor buffer than comparable shield buffers ---Passive armor tanking uses hardeners and plates to maximize EHP (no reps) ---Theory is that you have more EHP than what you would be able to rep back in an engagement -Gallente focus more on armor rep, Amarr focuses more on bricking
I'm wondering if it will be worth a try to implement some of these features into Dust. We could base shield recharge on a base time to full recharge (which of course means that extenders will increase the hp/s) and make it constant and uninterruptible. This could equate to somewhere between 30-40 base shield per second on an unfitted Gunnlogi. Considerably worse than what one active armor rep could achieve. For a passively tanked Gunnlogi, your base shield should be roughly doubled with two extenders, increasing your recharge to 60-80 shield/s, and with maybe two recharger modules you should be able to add around 50% more for a final recharge rate of 90-120 shield/s. You might notice that shield recharges provide a smaller boost, though they should be considerably easier to fit.
This seems to address people's concerns that shield gets a natural regen that's simply too high for having to spend zero modules on. The fit I described seems appropriate for what I consider to be a competitive passive fit. Also, fitting your high slots with damage amps and/or other utility modules and armor tanking your Gunnlogi will no longer give you the benefits of a high shield recharge.
Another parallel than can be drawn with EVE is to have armor reps have a longer active duration than shield boosters and to provide more HP at the end of their run. I forget how shield boosters and armor reps compared in terms of hp/s. Armor reps can also have a shorter cooldown to replicate capacitor recovery in EVE due to their smaller cap requirements.
One last thing I'd like to add: new module inspiration from EVE. Capacitor batteries and capacitor recharge relays. In Dust, we can have a module that increases module active duration (larger cap pool) and a module that decreases cooldown time (faster cap recovery). (I know that this is generalized but for Dust it could work). The first is a high slot module and the second is a low slot module. Perfect for making armor reps last for a longer time and reducing the longer cooldown times of the shield booster. I really like your last idea. Modules that affect Cooldown and duration of modules would be great and add variety. +1 for that We do have skills for that too.
should have a pilot suit for it too... lol |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance
829
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 07:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:all i know, is that I want to drive both uhavs and havs. i can imagine the rush of speeding around, almost lav speed, and just blasting tanks, in and out. I think it could be a great way to break out of a camp, keep moving and pick your targets wisely. Isn't this also about making tank combat a little more fun? I agree, I think people are underestimating the power that speed offers an HAV. Slap an Overdrive and Tracking Enhancer on, get up close, and take out the UHAV from close range, moving faster than it can track. You can already do this to some effect with a Blaster fighting a rail up close, and it's awesome. It's kind of like playing as a scout back when Heavies had reduced turn speed. You had crap for health but you could literally dance circles around the heavy and he wouldn't be able to touch you. As for the base stats on the DHAV...it has the reduced slots as well as the reduced base HP. I agree with either of these...but not sure if I agree with having them both at the same time, it might be a little too extreme, but time will tell. Stick with both, but I'd remain open to the idea of bumping the base HP up again if the DHAV's defense proove to be a little TOO weak. If the DHAVs are well done I'd skill this character into HAVs JUST for DHAVS. I love doing lots of damage then dying in glorious fire me too, thats why my kdr is in hell
i prefer to do lots of damage, then lots more again and again as they keep spawning in |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance
854
|
Posted - 2015.02.05 13:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Hey, still alive, i need ideas for good bonuses.
dhavs general speed dmg mod duration
faction ROF on missiles lower heat increase for blaster
uhavs general passive resists more hp
faction hardener and shield duration amor rep, shield regen
any idea is a good idea
these are good. im not sure about missile rof though. are their mechanics being changed from what they are currently? no more full auto? if theres no full auto then yes rof would be nice, but if theyre still going to be full auto, then range would be good, or blast radius, or even clip size. dispersion decrease is good too |
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