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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 66 post(s) |
Breakin Stuff
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
6790
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Posted - 2015.01.27 08:58:00 -
[451] - Quote
Can I get someone to post the refire delays for all AV weapons?
The undocumented one that thaddeus located.
Such as:
PLC: 0.5 SEC Forge gun: 1.0 sec
HE was unable to locate one for swarms.
Can I please get this for all AV capable weapons? Without this information I cannot give accurate DPS counts.
Currently the assault forge gun is listed at a 500 DPS.
If there is a 1 second hard delay between shot leaving barrel and next shot/ reload that changes the DPS sharply at all levels.
This drops the base DPS of the IAFG by 91 DPS from 500 to 409.09
And because it's undocumented we cannot account for it. If we want accurate counts we need stuff like this.
AV
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Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
645
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Posted - 2015.01.27 10:57:00 -
[452] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:One thing is for certain:
Dual hardener shield HAVs need to die in a fire. Waaaaaay OP.
1. No
2. Not OP since they take forever to cooldown
3. Why do you want to tell pilots how to fit something? |
Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
645
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Posted - 2015.01.27 11:05:00 -
[453] - Quote
1. Doesnt feel New Eden if vehicles do not have Capacitors 1a. As for adding another layer of complexity my standard PC Madrugar fit had 6 active modules all requiring different uses and to be turned on and off as and when needed depeding on the situation and that alone seperated the best from the average pubbie 1b. Why cant you roughly copy and paste numbers from EVE for modules activation times and cap usage along with cap recharge rates etc - Pick a 7slot ship and borrow from it and see how it goes
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Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
645
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Posted - 2015.01.27 11:16:00 -
[454] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:On a somewhat related topic: Rattati, do you see changing other vehicle and suit progression to follow tanks? That is, all have the same slots across tiers only changing CPU/PG? It is a form of tiericide, but I am not sold on its necessity, why bother if you aren't getting better. I enjoy unlocking and fitting proto and seeing how well I have done. The issue isn't proto gear, it's fair fights. And I do not feel constrained to apply the same logic on vehicles and dropsuits, in a 16v16 environment, vehicles should not ever be dominant.
1. Disagree - Its either the same for all or not at all - Vehicles have had this 'tiercide' which has only got worse since 1.7 with a 5slot layout - My proto amarr logi doesnt stay at 4 slots at proto so frankly i dont expect my proto hull to still be at 5slots which basically means the fit im using at basic will be upgraded to a proto hull but nothing changes, no variety, no new fits just the same boring cookie cutter fit that everyone uses which means there is no point in skilling for proto hulls because you are not getting better
2. What happens if it doesnt stay 16v16? Does that mean you will have to rework vehicles again and all the numbers because you didnt want vehicles to be too powerful in a 32player game - Right now large and small turrets cannot suppress infantry let alone kill them and vehicles cannot hack points and with a 3man HAV thats 3 less infantry so 13 are left on the field and in the end as it always is the team with most infantry always wins, the team with most vehicles loses |
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CCP Rattati
C C P C C P Alliance
15837
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Posted - 2015.01.27 11:53:00 -
[455] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:On a somewhat related topic: Rattati, do you see changing other vehicle and suit progression to follow tanks? That is, all have the same slots across tiers only changing CPU/PG? It is a form of tiericide, but I am not sold on its necessity, why bother if you aren't getting better. I enjoy unlocking and fitting proto and seeing how well I have done. The issue isn't proto gear, it's fair fights. And I do not feel constrained to apply the same logic on vehicles and dropsuits, in a 16v16 environment, vehicles should not ever be dominant. 1. Disagree - Its either the same for all or not at all - Vehicles have had this 'tiercide' which has only got worse since 1.7 with a 5slot layout - My proto amarr logi doesnt stay at 4 slots at proto so frankly i dont expect my proto hull to still be at 5slots which basically means the fit im using at basic will be upgraded to a proto hull but nothing changes, no variety, no new fits just the same boring cookie cutter fit that everyone uses which means there is no point in skilling for proto hulls because you are not getting better 2. What happens if it doesnt stay 16v16? Does that mean you will have to rework vehicles again and all the numbers because you didnt want vehicles to be too powerful in a 32player game - Right now large and small turrets cannot suppress infantry let alone kill them and vehicles cannot hack points and with a 3man HAV thats 3 less infantry so 13 are left on the field and in the end as it always is the team with most infantry always wins, the team with most vehicles loses
1. Frankly, it's not 2. We will just rebalance
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Mobius Wyvern
Sky-FIRE
5679
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Posted - 2015.01.27 12:29:00 -
[456] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote: Will we see this same methodology applied to Dropships and their variants in the future?
On further reading this looks pretty neat for tankers, but I think I speak for all pilots when I say we'd like a bit of this love as well.
If this proof of concept works, I predict a cascading effect upon the whole of vehicles and eventually dropsuits. I really hope that's the case.
I've started using a Python fit with 2 Complex Light Shield Boosters and 3 XT-1 turrets.
With all my guns manned, that thing is a ***** to kill, and I can finally survive against Swarms.
I support Keshava for Gallente Specialist HAV
R.I.P. Kesha
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Breakin Stuff
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
6793
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Posted - 2015.01.27 12:42:00 -
[457] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote: Will we see this same methodology applied to Dropships and their variants in the future?
On further reading this looks pretty neat for tankers, but I think I speak for all pilots when I say we'd like a bit of this love as well.
If this proof of concept works, I predict a cascading effect upon the whole of vehicles and eventually dropsuits. I really hope that's the case. I've started using a Python fit with 2 Complex Light Shield Boosters and 3 XT-1 turrets. With all my guns manned, that thing is a ***** to kill, and I can finally survive against Swarms.
How's it hold up vs. An IAFG? I've pretty much noticed that shield hardeners vs. Extenders on a forge gun there's no real difference. But I can see it making a difference vs. Swarms.
Also never seen anyone dual booster in a serious fashion.
AV
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Breakin Stuff
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
6793
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Posted - 2015.01.27 12:59:00 -
[458] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
And I do not feel constrained to apply the same logic on vehicles and dropsuits, in a 16v16 environment, vehicles should not ever be dominant.
I'm of the opinion that trying to apply the same logic to both results in the mess we are in today.
But as far as changing the tiericide I honestly think full throttle tiericide would be best.
Instead of having three versions each of the same suit, why not three different suits?
Example: A-1 Scout, A/2 Saboteur, Ak.0 Pilot suit.
G-1 Linebreaker, G/2 Hunter, Gk.0 Sentinel
Each an unlock off the appropriate frame with a x3-x4 multiplier instead of an x10 for a single suit?
AV
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CCP Rattati
C C P C C P Alliance
15844
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Posted - 2015.01.27 13:00:00 -
[459] - Quote
question, shield boosters in low? Given that similar to dropsuits, all vehicles get a slim natural rep, so as to not be forced to fit a rep mod in a low.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Breakin Stuff
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
6793
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Posted - 2015.01.27 13:01:00 -
[460] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:question, shield boosters in low?
... honestly I was going to say bad idea. Thinking about it, however, I can't see why it would break the vehicles.
AV
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Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
645
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Posted - 2015.01.27 13:04:00 -
[461] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:question, shield boosters in low? Given that similar to dropsuits, all vehicles get a slim natural rep, so as to not be forced to fit a rep mod in a low.
1. Nope - Never been low slots ever but what is the reasoning for this?
2. Slim armor rep may stop armor tanking in a shield vehicle |
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CCP Rattati
C C P C C P Alliance
15844
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Posted - 2015.01.27 13:06:00 -
[462] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:question, shield boosters in low? Given that similar to dropsuits, all vehicles get a slim natural rep, so as to not be forced to fit a rep mod in a low. 1. Nope - Never been low slots ever but what is the reasoning for this?
That was not the question.
There is no shield based mod available, like regulators for dropsuits.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
645
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Posted - 2015.01.27 13:11:00 -
[463] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:On a somewhat related topic: Rattati, do you see changing other vehicle and suit progression to follow tanks? That is, all have the same slots across tiers only changing CPU/PG? It is a form of tiericide, but I am not sold on its necessity, why bother if you aren't getting better. I enjoy unlocking and fitting proto and seeing how well I have done. The issue isn't proto gear, it's fair fights. And I do not feel constrained to apply the same logic on vehicles and dropsuits, in a 16v16 environment, vehicles should not ever be dominant. 1. Disagree - Its either the same for all or not at all - Vehicles have had this 'tiercide' which has only got worse since 1.7 with a 5slot layout - My proto amarr logi doesnt stay at 4 slots at proto so frankly i dont expect my proto hull to still be at 5slots which basically means the fit im using at basic will be upgraded to a proto hull but nothing changes, no variety, no new fits just the same boring cookie cutter fit that everyone uses which means there is no point in skilling for proto hulls because you are not getting better 2. What happens if it doesnt stay 16v16? Does that mean you will have to rework vehicles again and all the numbers because you didnt want vehicles to be too powerful in a 32player game - Right now large and small turrets cannot suppress infantry let alone kill them and vehicles cannot hack points and with a 3man HAV thats 3 less infantry so 13 are left on the field and in the end as it always is the team with most infantry always wins, the team with most vehicles loses 1. Frankly, it's not 2. We will just rebalance
1. So then the only difference between basic/adv/pro is going to be PG/CPU and that is it? - For me this is key if vehicles do not improve in slots not even by 1 per tier then i really cant see myself bothering with vehicles since there is no incentive for the SP required let alone currently with a basic hull and all pro modules it still takes 1 pro AV to kill it |
Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
645
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Posted - 2015.01.27 13:13:00 -
[464] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:question, shield boosters in low? Given that similar to dropsuits, all vehicles get a slim natural rep, so as to not be forced to fit a rep mod in a low. 1. Nope - Never been low slots ever but what is the reasoning for this? That was not the question. There is no shield based mod available, like regulators for dropsuits.
1. You said shield booster which is high slot not shield mod for low slot
2. In EVE there is flux coils which basically are regulators in DUST and also we had power diagnostic modules which helped with shield also - Regulators would be useful if in comparision to whacking an armor plate in the lows |
Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
783
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Posted - 2015.01.27 13:13:00 -
[465] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:question, shield boosters in low? Given that similar to dropsuits, all vehicles get a slim natural rep, so as to not be forced to fit a rep mod in a low.
For HAV's with more fitting options, my first instinct is sure why not.
Dropships, it may a bit crippling, especially for Pythons.
Seeing how much work is going into tanks, there is not alot of room for dropship changes . Moving it to a low would remove shield booster as an optional fitting on a python, or the incubus for that matter. It would leave the python with just one fit, Hardener, afterburner, extender in the highs and pg upgrade in the low.
To make up for this perhaps we can leave the light shield boosters in the high and the heavy shield booster in the lows. Its not very symetrical, but it leaves the dropship pilots something until we get dropships PG and CPU sorted.
If you ask me "what if dropships had the PG/ CPU fitting costs to fit a booster in the lows?", then yes, i'd be all for it.
Also , passive vehicle reps? i like.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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Mobius Wyvern
Sky-FIRE
5679
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Posted - 2015.01.27 14:19:00 -
[466] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote: Will we see this same methodology applied to Dropships and their variants in the future?
On further reading this looks pretty neat for tankers, but I think I speak for all pilots when I say we'd like a bit of this love as well.
If this proof of concept works, I predict a cascading effect upon the whole of vehicles and eventually dropsuits. I really hope that's the case. I've started using a Python fit with 2 Complex Light Shield Boosters and 3 XT-1 turrets. With all my guns manned, that thing is a ***** to kill, and I can finally survive against Swarms. How's it hold up vs. An IAFG? I've pretty much noticed that shield hardeners vs. Extenders on a forge gun there's no real difference. But I can see it making a difference vs. Swarms. Also never seen anyone dual booster in a serious fashion. Dual Booster allows me to loiter and duel with Forge Gunners easily, even Assault Forges. The fun part is it's actually a tossup as to which of us will win said duel.
Swarms, your only hope is to get out of the area before 6 volleys are in the air and tracking you. If you hit your afterburner, and then hit a Booster as soon as your shield drops below a third, you'll boost off the damage of the Swarms pursuing you while you get out of range, and at max Core skills it only has a 30 second cooldown, so you get back in the fight much faster.
I support Keshava for Gallente Specialist HAV
R.I.P. Kesha
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Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
646
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Posted - 2015.01.27 14:42:00 -
[467] - Quote
1. Due to the new patch all new experiment weapons now get more damage, more ammo, more in the clip so they will hammer vehicles harder than now - That alone changes it all again - That extra slot per tier is looking like a must have right now if im going against that |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4583
|
Posted - 2015.01.27 15:26:00 -
[468] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:question, shield boosters in low? Given that similar to dropsuits, all vehicles get a slim natural rep, so as to not be forced to fit a rep mod in a low.
I'm going to say....yes/no. I think Shield Boosters, as in a module which when activated quickly regenerates shields, should remain in the high. There are several EVE modules (some of which we've had in Dust before) which increase *natural* shield regen and go in the low slot. The biggest one that comes to mind is the Power Diagnostic System, providing a small boost to Shield HP, Natural Shield Recharge, and PG capacity. It's an awesome module and I used it frequently in the past, so definitely bring those back if possible.
The reason I'm against shield boosters in the low is that Shield Vehicles would be able to fit HP/Resists in the highs and then their main regen in the lows, whereas armor would have to fit all 3 in the low, and reppers really should not be high slot items, I feel this deviates too much from EVE mechanics and could be confusing to players.
Additionally I'd like to see Shield Regulators in the lows as well.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Breakin Stuff
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
6796
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Posted - 2015.01.27 15:36:00 -
[469] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote: Dual Booster allows me to loiter and duel with Forge Gunners easily, even Assault Forges. The fun part is it's actually a tossup as to which of us will win said duel.
Spread the good word my good man. I want more dropships to get froggy and attempt to kill me rather than panicking and fleeing.
AV
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CCP Rattati
C C P C C P Alliance
15850
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Posted - 2015.01.27 15:48:00 -
[470] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:question, shield boosters in low? Given that similar to dropsuits, all vehicles get a slim natural rep, so as to not be forced to fit a rep mod in a low. I'm going to say....yes/no. I think Shield Boosters, as in a module which when activated quickly regenerates shields, should remain in the high. There are several EVE modules (some of which we've had in Dust before) which increase *natural* shield regen and go in the low slot. The biggest one that comes to mind is the Power Diagnostic System, providing a small boost to Shield HP, Natural Shield Recharge, and PG capacity. It's an awesome module and I used it frequently in the past, so definitely bring those back if possible. The reason I'm against shield boosters in the low is that Shield Vehicles would be able to fit HP/Resists in the highs and then their main regen in the lows, whereas armor would have to fit all 3 in the low, and reppers really should not be high slot items, I feel this deviates too much from EVE mechanics and could be confusing to players. Additionally I'd like to see Shield Regulators in the lows and possibly Armor Pumps in the highs (Increase to the rate of armor repairers but don't actually repair by themselves).
Regs it is.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance
826
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Posted - 2015.01.27 16:11:00 -
[471] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:question, shield boosters in low? Given that similar to dropsuits, all vehicles get a slim natural rep, so as to not be forced to fit a rep mod in a low. 1. Nope - Never been low slots ever but what is the reasoning for this? That was not the question. There is no shield based mod available, like regulators for dropsuits.
it was called power diagnostic unit. it gave a modest bonus to shield hp, shield recharge, and PG. it was for pilots that wanted a full passive shield tank setup.
that was back when tank shields had no delay though, so id also add shield delay reduction to it as well or replace the PG bonus for the shield delay reduction. |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance
826
|
Posted - 2015.01.27 16:15:00 -
[472] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:question, shield boosters in low? Given that similar to dropsuits, all vehicles get a slim natural rep, so as to not be forced to fit a rep mod in a low. I'm going to say....yes/no. I think Shield Boosters, as in a module which when activated quickly regenerates shields, should remain in the high. There are several EVE modules (some of which we've had in Dust before) which increase *natural* shield regen and go in the low slot. The biggest one that comes to mind is the Power Diagnostic System, providing a small boost to Shield HP, Natural Shield Recharge, and PG capacity. It's an awesome module and I used it frequently in the past, so definitely bring those back if possible. The reason I'm against shield boosters in the low is that Shield Vehicles would be able to fit HP/Resists in the highs and then their main regen in the lows, whereas armor would have to fit all 3 in the low, and reppers really should not be high slot items, I feel this deviates too much from EVE mechanics and could be confusing to players. Additionally I'd like to see Shield Regulators in the lows and possibly Armor Pumps in the highs (Increase to the rate of armor repairers but don't actually repair by themselves). Regs it is. before you go with regs, can you tell us about vehicle shield mechanics? do they still have delay? damage thresholds? does the shield boost still jump start shield regen?
shield regs could be redundant unless they removed the shield delay as a booster would accomplish the same thing but also boost shield hp |
Breakin Stuff
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
6797
|
Posted - 2015.01.27 16:17:00 -
[473] - Quote
Any chance I can get the refire delays for all of the AV weapons? This attribute isn't listed anywhere except in the code and I'm not a coder.
I know the forge is 1 second hard delay between shot fired and doing anything else now, which buggers up my numbers BADLY.
I need to know how many of these there are so I can fix the numbers. The existence of this attribute because it's unlisted means I have to redo all of my tables.
AV
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Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
651
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Posted - 2015.01.27 16:19:00 -
[474] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:question, shield boosters in low? Given that similar to dropsuits, all vehicles get a slim natural rep, so as to not be forced to fit a rep mod in a low. 1. Nope - Never been low slots ever but what is the reasoning for this? That was not the question. There is no shield based mod available, like regulators for dropsuits. it was called power diagnostic unit. it gave a modest bonus to shield hp, shield recharge, and PG. it was for pilots that wanted a full passive shield tank setup. that was back when tank shields had no delay though, so id also add shield delay reduction to it as well or replace the PG bonus for the shield delay reduction.
1. It was useful
2. It looks like regulators which means the delay is still in which is fine for dropsuits but vehicles should have a constant passive regen |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4584
|
Posted - 2015.01.27 16:24:00 -
[475] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:question, shield boosters in low? Given that similar to dropsuits, all vehicles get a slim natural rep, so as to not be forced to fit a rep mod in a low. 1. Nope - Never been low slots ever but what is the reasoning for this? That was not the question. There is no shield based mod available, like regulators for dropsuits. it was called power diagnostic unit. it gave a modest bonus to shield hp, shield recharge, and PG. it was for pilots that wanted a full passive shield tank setup. that was back when tank shields had no delay though, so id also add shield delay reduction to it as well or replace the PG bonus for the shield delay reduction. 1. It was useful 2. It looks like regulators which means the delay is still in which is fine for dropsuits but vehicles should have a constant passive regen
If you did constant passive regen, regen rate would have to be exceptionally low since it would mean the vehicle would be naturally negating X DPS naturally, all the time. As I've stated before, unmodified shield regen in EVE is VERY slow for this very reason.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
653
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Posted - 2015.01.27 16:26:00 -
[476] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:
If you did constant passive regen, regen rate would have to be exceptionally low since it would mean the vehicle would be naturally negating X DPS naturally, all the time. As I've stated before, unmodified shield regen in EVE is VERY slow for this very reason.
1. Already done it on my sheet |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4584
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Posted - 2015.01.27 16:29:00 -
[477] - Quote
Im not going to dig for the link, what did you set the regen at?
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
664
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Posted - 2015.01.27 16:34:00 -
[478] - Quote
1. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1m7G9wnM6gcnNM6oP6mw5oYgHQZF6XYelYh0PTgk72iM/pubhtml |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4584
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Posted - 2015.01.27 16:39:00 -
[479] - Quote
Alright the regen values are pretty reasonable maybe a little high for the Sageris but I'm not going to spend time on that, though I'm not entirely sold on why we have to make it different from how infantry works.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
668
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Posted - 2015.01.27 17:07:00 -
[480] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Alright the regen values are pretty reasonable maybe a little high for the Sageris but I'm not going to spend time on that, though I'm not entirely sold on why we have to make it different from how infantry works.
1. Well a vehicle is far more powerful than a meatbag and that alone can justify it |
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