Rattati if you introduce the turrets for minmatar and amarr rather than the standard Assault, breach standard, etc. profgression I would like to offer an alternative:

Lasers:

Pulse laser turret,
Beam laser turret
Charged burst turret (Actually cooked this up for the arc cannon I was submitting)

Cannons:

Cannons: Like an M-1 Abrams main gun
Autocannons
Howitzers: Vehicular mass driver.

So I assume you split artys into two groups?

Number enthusiasts,

you can take a glance at how I am approaching the progression calculation in the tabs HAV Loadouts and more new tabs.

Basically I am creating a step by step progression plan, while managing somewhat competitive fits.

Take a look.

All I want is chromosome tanks please. Please!! Passive mods. Revert 1.7 arcade tanks to chromosome.

Would you like me to convert the turret numbers I gave you to conform to current AV meta? One of the biggest complaints from drivers is "too short fights."

A longer fight is almost guaranteed to heavily favor vehicle users.

Phase 2)
Rebalance as needed and introduce "repurposed hulls", same progression but using Gallente Hulls and highly recognizable color schemes to represent Amarr, Caldari for Minmatar.

Don't particularly care about your concern for a return button press that's not what this is for. This is to address the tank crap they intend on dropping instead of things we have asked for and things they have said they would be dropping on us like pilot suits. Most of the people here have had dropsuits all along. I have "only" driven tanks from the beginning. I was 50/50 in to suits and tanks, with the skill resets we received a while back I put all my sp into tanks and turrets. With the drop of 1.10 and the higher sp cap I got into a dropsuits once again. For the longest time a tank was my "only" useable fitting. I have added to posts and suggested things, its about time to give up on dust as what we ask for and what we receive are 2 way different things. back tracking to fix things that are broken seems more logical, like broken maps that suicide your tank out of nowhere. I have been in a tank for a lot longer than most and have driven every where on the maps even the places you shouldn't/can/t get them to. I guess it woulden't do any good to ask for pilot suits with the vehicle bonuses on them, may seem too difficult to do what asked than to smash through a budget making something new and confusing to get cash out of players. I am beginning to not see a point in participating in forums with dust to be generally ignored on key points. (return)

Correcting peoples paragraphs and spelling just shows us your dedication to OCD and waste of space. the posts are about tanks, not spelling or punctuation. Another reason not to post up in the forums the A.D.D. kids can't stick to topic. (return again, It says enter on my keyboard but seems the same)

Again I ask where is my pilot suit and proper options for the door locks on vehicles. dropships should have no door locks but it would be to stupid for me to think that people wanna wait 30 seconds to get a full dropship at the beginning of battle, hmm pilot suit only drivers seat would eliminate the need for door locks on a dropship. And to the people who wanna steal others vehicles at the beginning of factionals they would need to start in a pilot suit also. Addressing the color variations with the new type tanks does this mean they will be blueprint and in the visual customizations tab. from what we were told about visual customizations this would not be a far off guess of whats going on. visual customizations on tanks would be awesome but the thought of visual customizations and what we received already doesn't seem too promising. back track, repair and address the users wants before you set up a new budget to blow a bunch of development dollars on a new addition that just looks like it addressed some problems but really just created a new pile. I think it would be more efficient to use the money I have put into this game to add/fix whats already here than create a new batch of problems, just a thought here if there was money spent on developing pilot suits and it was scrapped is that budget wasted or would we be getting our moneys worth if ccp dust finished what they started on that budget. we asked for player trading and got sell your assets seems like an avoidance of what was asked for.

Of course the issue for drivers is "too short fights". They have a ton of ability to relocate quickly and get away from a fight. A prolonged fight with AV means vehicles can choose to disengage at any time and run away. A longer fight is almost guaranteed to heavily favor vehicle users.

I know the risks, and all the history. I believe there is a way to make this work. Vehicle players will have to realize that the progression will not be nearly as steep as before, and that there will be a learning period while we balance the content, erring on the safe side.

Without some form of AI threat, there is no reason to use HAVs except to fight other HAVs. There needs to be that first escalation to get the game going. HAVs may end up being even easier to kill at lower levels, I don't have the stats yet. Again, we want everyone to have a way to progress, and feel that they are unlocking and earning something of value.

If 5 tanks are too much, we may restrict them to 3, whatever is necessary.

Of course the issue for drivers is "too short fights". They have a ton of ability to relocate quickly and get away from a fight. A prolonged fight with AV means vehicles can choose to disengage at any time and run away. A longer fight is almost guaranteed to heavily favor vehicle users.

I want to explain to you why sitting there and taking damage over a longer period of time is bad, and that fights that are too short leaves a feeling of a cheap death. TTK balance is not really an impossible concept to grasp but then i read your post again.

What do you mean by this statment "a longer fight is almost garunteed to favor vehicles", as in LAVs, Dropships and Tanks? How so? How would a long engagement favor a dropship over a forge gunner?


You seem to be unable to grasp that vehicles by their nature are mobile (call me crazy, but i'm sure i can get farther in a car than i can on foot).Why? Sure a vehicle can move away, and once the vehicle does the AV is no longer under threat from the vehicle either. Tanks are hardly nimble (as many a forge gunner knows), LAV have no real offensive power except the wheelchair heavy leaping out . That just leaves the Dropships, which by your own admission swarms are ina good place vs dropships right now.

I'm trying to figure out where you are coming from with all of this hyperbole. Even with my wildest arguements with Atiim, and my AV vs Vehicle discussions with Breaking Stuff, nobody else (except IWS) just comes out and drops the sort of comments you do. When a dedicated AVer comments HAV TTK should be balanced why do you have to jump all over him?

Of course the issue for drivers is "too short fights". They have a ton of ability to relocate quickly and get away from a fight. A prolonged fight with AV means vehicles can choose to disengage at any time and run away. A longer fight is almost guaranteed to heavily favor vehicle users.

If 5 tanks are too much, we may restrict them to 3, whatever is necessary.

Can we get the protofits guys to make a page based on Rattati's proposed HAV stats?

Might be helpful to be able to make/look at EHP and resistance spreads so we can compare turrets and AV to the hulls

Ok nerds:

So far I have compiled the DPS and damage numbers for the Forge, Swarms, PLC and AV nades.

Spreadsheet is here

[Edit]
Should AV weapon discussions maybe go in a different thread? I could make some interesting suggestions here, but I don't want to derail the thread.

[Edit2]
Eh, what damage profiles did you use and where is prof. V added?
Looking at swarms I can't follow e.g. from D3 to D27 and then from D27 to D51. This data was entered as constants, so I can't see the formulas you used.

My Only problem with this Ratt, is that your still going by a 3/2 or 2/3 system for slots. This is very, very bad. Reduce power of the mods, add more slots because we need variety. Gunnlogi should get 4 highs and 2 lows, opposite for Maddy. Minmatar should get a 3/3 layout, but I'm not sure about what to do with Amarr....

Actually, myself, Thaddeus and Pokey are rather unanimously going to recommend a seven-slot layout.

Amarr 2/5

Caldari 5/2

Gallente 3/4

Minmatar 4/3

Cookie cutter fits need to die in a fire.

Actually, myself, Thaddeus and Pokey are rather unanimously going to recommend a seven-slot layout.

Amarr 2/5

Caldari 5/2

Gallente 3/4

Minmatar 4/3

Cookie cutter fits need to die in a fire.