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Why isn't the AR better than the ACR at CQC?

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DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 7119	Posted - 2015.01.17 19:11:00 - [1] - Quote Actually why? Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2278	Posted - 2015.01.17 19:18:00 - [2] - Quote High RoF Armor Damage. Similar raw DPS. The main advantage of ARs are their massive magazine sizes now. Home at Last <3
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 7120	Posted - 2015.01.17 19:20:00 - [3] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: High RoF Armor Damage. Similar raw DPS. The main advantage of ARs are their massive magazine sizes now. I can usually kill three people with an ACR mag and four when I use it on the Minmatar Assault, but I can barely kill two people with the AR mag. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Cody Sietz Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 4327	Posted - 2015.01.17 19:21:00 - [4] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: High RoF Armor Damage. Similar raw DPS. The main advantage of ARs are their massive magazine sizes now. Except a Minmatar suit gets a even more massive mag and gets about the same hipfire as a level 5 Gallente assault. Basically, the AR is balanced by its range and the very thing else has no balancing factor(sorry,but the AR is the 2nd best AR and that really shouldn't be) "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2278	Posted - 2015.01.17 19:26:00 - [5] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: High RoF Armor Damage. Similar raw DPS. The main advantage of ARs are their massive magazine sizes now. I can usually kill three people with an ACR mag and four when I use it on the Minmatar Assault, but I can barely kill two people with the AR mag. :/ How? Burger King damage per mag: 1416.916 (1771.145 w/ Minassault V) Gecko 38 damage per mag: 2271.15 And the AR has better accuracy overall. Both on the hip and ADS. Home at Last <3
Tectonic Fusion 2307	Posted - 2015.01.17 19:39:00 - [6] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: High RoF Armor Damage. Similar raw DPS. The main advantage of ARs are their massive magazine sizes now. I can usually kill three people with an ACR mag and four when I use it on the Minmatar Assault, but I can barely kill two people with the AR mag. :/ How? Burger King damage per mag: 1416.916 (1771.145 w/ Minassault V) Gecko 38 damage per mag: 2271.15 And the AR has better accuracy overall. Both on the hip and ADS. probably against people with less than 500 EHP... (GIF)
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 7120	Posted - 2015.01.17 19:44:00 - [7] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: And the AR has better accuracy overall. Both on the hip and ADS. Yep, about two points, but I can't notice it. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1595	Posted - 2015.01.17 19:49:00 - [8] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: High RoF Armor Damage. Similar raw DPS. The main advantage of ARs are their massive magazine sizes now. Which makes them better at 1v2 than a ACR could hope to be even with Minassault. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Major 0nslaught 139	Posted - 2015.01.17 19:49:00 - [9] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Actually why? because IWS ruined it for everyone. only he can't accept responsibility for his bad ideas due to nda. Life is like a box of Proto Locust grenades. You never know what random red berry you're gonna get.
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law 861	Posted - 2015.01.17 20:02:00 - [10] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Actually why? Why do you think it is? I consider the AR fine as it is and I prefer it over the ACR (the ACR is funnier to use though). If its damage profile would be -10% \| +10% you wouldn't even remoootely think so. 10100111001 Shield tanking is hard mode /period. 10100111001

Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 5560	Posted - 2015.01.17 20:06:00 - [11] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: High RoF Armor Damage. Similar raw DPS. The main advantage of ARs are their massive magazine sizes now. Which makes them better at 1v2 than a ACR could hope to be even with Minassault. Unless the ACR is a Min Assault with a skill greater than our equal to 2 in his suit.
First Prophet Followers of The Prophet 2406	Posted - 2015.01.17 20:08:00 - [12] - Quote You've probably been doing drugs. People find this this review helpful!
Helghus Resther Heisen Republic 58	Posted - 2015.01.17 20:14:00 - [13] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Actually why? Better is subjective. I prefer the AR to the ACR myself, in any situation The winner of this war will not prove who's right; only, who's left.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3558	Posted - 2015.01.17 20:45:00 - [14] - Quote It is, you're just bad. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2278	Posted - 2015.01.17 21:09:00 - [15] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: High RoF Armor Damage. Similar raw DPS. The main advantage of ARs are their massive magazine sizes now. Which makes them better at 1v2 than a ACR could hope to be even with Minassault. Unless the ACR is a Min Assault with a skill greater than our equal to 2 in his suit. AR still has more damage per mag, which is the stat that matters... The actual amount of bullets in a mag is largely irrelevant so long as the damage per mag is high. AR has the highest damage per mag in the Assault, Tactical, and Burst rifle variants. The only exception is the RR having higher damage per mag than the Breach AR. Even when you account for Amassault/Minassault. Home at Last <3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3614	Posted - 2015.01.17 21:27:00 - [16] - Quote Well statistically it's not. The AR has a higher DPS and much larger magazine size, all paired with lower recoil over time and greater hipfire accuracy. The ACR has an Armour focused profile and a faster ROF and 4m extra range. So its one of 2 things, there is so much armour around these days that non-armoured weapons simply aren't cutting it, or that slightly better ROF is making a hell lf a lot of difference. Although anyone who uses an ACR with any degree of accuracy should be capable of doing the same with a Assault Rifle aswell. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Zindorak Nyain Chan General Tso's Alliance 1649	Posted - 2015.01.17 22:14:00 - [17] - Quote The real question is why is the ARR better at CQC than AR Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Give me da iskiez Gk0 Scout yay :)
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 7069	Posted - 2015.01.17 22:27:00 - [18] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Actually why? Because all Projectile weapons are BS. IM LOOKING AT YOU HMG kills me at 45mts range Playing as : Calscout + Amarr Assault
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 15123	Posted - 2015.01.18 00:06:00 - [19] - Quote Because you're not great with the AR? Against Shield users the AR is much better than the ACR (an extra 130 DPS) but against Armor users the ACR is better by only 94 DPS. Given how the DPS losses and gains are in favor of the AR, your complaint is unfounded. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law 861	Posted - 2015.01.18 00:11:00 - [20] - Quote Zindorak wrote: The real question is why is the ARR better at CQC than AR facepalm Where did a fellow caldari assault touch you? 10100111001 Shield tanking is hard mode /period. 10100111001

Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES 1558	Posted - 2015.01.18 00:11:00 - [21] - Quote First Prophet wrote: You've probably been doing drugs. Indeed Crush them
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 7125	Posted - 2015.01.18 00:12:00 - [22] - Quote Atiim wrote: Because you're not great with the AR? Against Shield users the AR is much better than the ACR (an extra 130 DPS) but against Armor users the ACR is better by only 94 DPS. Given how the DPS losses and gains are in favor of the AR, your complaint is unfounded. My theory is that the high RoF allows you to slow down targets more therfore making it easier to shoot your target the longer you shoot at them. It is a less exaggerated version of what happens with the HMG. The rate of fire might be high enough to make even shield suits very slow. Then again I am unsure what determines how much each shot slows you down: whether it's just RoF or if damage is a factor. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2279	Posted - 2015.01.18 00:16:00 - [23] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Atiim wrote: Because you're not great with the AR? Against Shield users the AR is much better than the ACR (an extra 130 DPS) but against Armor users the ACR is better by only 94 DPS. Given how the DPS losses and gains are in favor of the AR, your complaint is unfounded. My theory is that the high RoF allows you to slow down targets more therfore making it easier to shoot your target the longer you shoot at them. It is a less exaggerated version of what happens with the HMG. The rate of fire might be high enough to make even shield suits very slow. Then again I am unsure what determines how much each shot slows you down: whether it's just RoF or if damage is a factor. They removed that. Slowdown doesn't happen anymore. Home at Last <3
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 528	Posted - 2015.01.18 00:21:00 - [24] - Quote I can't comment on whether the ACR is better than the AR or not. But I notice people pulling out damage per mag equations. Yet no one took the time to point out how much time it takes to empty an ACR clip or how much time it takes to empty an AR clip. I would think that it would matter wouldn't it?
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 528	Posted - 2015.01.18 00:21:00 - [25] - Quote Redacted due to double posting glitchy fun.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2279	Posted - 2015.01.18 00:29:00 - [26] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: I can't comment on whether the ACR is better than the AR or not. But I notice people pulling out damage per mag equations. Yet no one took the time to point out how much time it takes to empty an ACR clip or how much time it takes to empty an AR clip. I would think that it would matter wouldn't it? Its a largely irrelevant stat. In this case however, the AR has a longer time. Home at Last <3
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 530	Posted - 2015.01.19 00:20:00 - [27] - Quote Well, I'm not sure it is irrelevant. I mean, so Lets say: Gun X: Has 1500 damage in the clip. Gun Y: Has 1900 damage in the clip. Then you'd say that gun X isn't as good as Gun Y by that alone. Now Say that Gun X can empty that 1500 damage in 1 second, whereas Gun Y takes 2 seconds. I mean, we talk about DPS often for a reason right? So, how much faster can you empty a CR clip than an AR clip?
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2300	Posted - 2015.01.19 01:14:00 - [28] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: Well, I'm not sure it is irrelevant. I mean, so Lets say: Gun X: Has 1500 damage in the clip. Gun Y: Has 1900 damage in the clip. Then you'd say that gun X isn't as good as Gun Y by that alone. Now Say that Gun X can empty that 1500 damage in 1 second, whereas Gun Y takes 2 seconds. I mean, we talk about DPS often for a reason right? So, how much faster can you empty a CR clip than an AR clip? It doesn't matter. Its the DPS and DpM that matters in this scenario, which the AR has more of both. An AR outputs more damage per second, for a larger amount of time. The stats that really matter are DPS and Damage per mag/heat (DpM). AR DPS: 412 ACR DPS: 397.6 AR DpM: 2163 ACR DpM: 1352 As you can see, the AR both outputs damage at a faster rate, and can output much more damage before it has to stop. Home at Last <3
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 7143	Posted - 2015.01.19 01:20:00 - [29] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Atiim wrote: Because you're not great with the AR? Against Shield users the AR is much better than the ACR (an extra 130 DPS) but against Armor users the ACR is better by only 94 DPS. Given how the DPS losses and gains are in favor of the AR, your complaint is unfounded. My theory is that the high RoF allows you to slow down targets more therfore making it easier to shoot your target the longer you shoot at them. It is a less exaggerated version of what happens with the HMG. The rate of fire might be high enough to make even shield suits very slow. Then again I am unsure what determines how much each shot slows you down: whether it's just RoF or if damage is a factor. They removed that. Slowdown doesn't happen anymore. And it was a stat called 'Momentum'. Rail Weapons had the highest, Projectiles had the second highest, Blaster took third, and Lasers had the least. Are you sure? Haven't you ever found it hard to move while being shot by the HMG? Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 531	Posted - 2015.01.19 01:43:00 - [30] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Imp Smash wrote: Well, I'm not sure it is irrelevant. I mean, so Lets say: Gun X: Has 1500 damage in the clip. Gun Y: Has 1900 damage in the clip. Then you'd say that gun X isn't as good as Gun Y by that alone. Now Say that Gun X can empty that 1500 damage in 1 second, whereas Gun Y takes 2 seconds. I mean, we talk about DPS often for a reason right? So, how much faster can you empty a CR clip than an AR clip? It doesn't matter. Its the DPS and DpM that matters in this scenario, which the AR has more of both. An AR outputs more damage per second, for a larger amount of time. The stats that really matter are DPS and Damage per mag/heat (DpM). AR DPS: 412 ACR DPS: 397.6 AR DpM: 2163 ACR DpM: 1352 As you can see, the AR both outputs damage at a faster rate, and can output much more damage before it has to stop. Fair enough. So you don't know how exactly fast an AR can empty the clip and how fast the AR can empty the clip then but have an idea? I would assume by the DpM you listed and the DPS you listed that the ACR empties at about 2x the speed of the AR then?

Reign Omega T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 1107	Posted - 2015.01.19 01:54:00 - [31] - Quote Because armor. Mark a$$ tricks, and bags of dicks....
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1843	Posted - 2015.01.19 02:03:00 - [32] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: Well, I'm not sure it is irrelevant. I mean, so Lets say: Gun X: Has 1500 damage in the clip. Gun Y: Has 1900 damage in the clip. Then you'd say that gun X isn't as good as Gun Y by that alone. Now Say that Gun X can empty that 1500 damage in 1 second, whereas Gun Y takes 2 seconds. I mean, we talk about DPS often for a reason right? So, how much faster can you empty a CR clip than an AR clip? Imp Smash wrote: Fair enough. So you don't know how exactly fast an AR can empty the clip and how fast the AR can empty the clip then but have an idea? I would assume by the DpM you listed and the DPS you listed that the ACR empties at about 2x the speed of the AR then? what you are pointing at does not make sense at all. being able to empty the clip faster while dealing lower DPS is not an advantage
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 533	Posted - 2015.01.19 02:22:00 - [33] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Imp Smash wrote: Well, I'm not sure it is irrelevant. I mean, so Lets say: Gun X: Has 1500 damage in the clip. Gun Y: Has 1900 damage in the clip. Then you'd say that gun X isn't as good as Gun Y by that alone. Now Say that Gun X can empty that 1500 damage in 1 second, whereas Gun Y takes 2 seconds. I mean, we talk about DPS often for a reason right? So, how much faster can you empty a CR clip than an AR clip? Imp Smash wrote: Fair enough. So you don't know how exactly fast an AR can empty the clip and how fast the AR can empty the clip then but have an idea? I would assume by the DpM you listed and the DPS you listed that the ACR empties at about 2x the speed of the AR then? what you are pointing at does not make sense at all. being able to empty the clip faster while dealing lower DPS is not an advantage Maybe not. I might be way off base. I haven't used the AR in almost 2 years so I really am poor about such a comparison. I DO use the CR and it certainly doesn't feel like the DPS is as low as people say. Then again, it could just be a skewed viewpoint based on TTK. As I said way earlier -- I'm just trying to understand it. I can't make a fair opinion or even really helpful feed back based on my limited experience. EDIT: One thing I DO notice is that I seem to burn through the 60+ CR clip WAY faster than I would expect. I feel like im out of ammo pretty much all the time. :(
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2300	Posted - 2015.01.19 02:25:00 - [34] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Imp Smash wrote: Well, I'm not sure it is irrelevant. I mean, so Lets say: Gun X: Has 1500 damage in the clip. Gun Y: Has 1900 damage in the clip. Then you'd say that gun X isn't as good as Gun Y by that alone. Now Say that Gun X can empty that 1500 damage in 1 second, whereas Gun Y takes 2 seconds. I mean, we talk about DPS often for a reason right? So, how much faster can you empty a CR clip than an AR clip? It doesn't matter. Its the DPS and DpM that matters in this scenario, which the AR has more of both. An AR outputs more damage per second, for a larger amount of time. The stats that really matter are DPS and Damage per mag/heat (DpM). AR DPS: 412 ACR DPS: 397.6 AR DpM: 2163 ACR DpM: 1352 As you can see, the AR both outputs damage at a faster rate, and can output much more damage before it has to stop. Fair enough. So you don't know how exactly fast an AR can empty the clip and how fast the AR can empty the clip then but have an idea? I would assume by the DpM you listed and the DPS you listed that the ACR empties at about 2x the speed of the AR then? The AR takes 5.25s to empty. The ACR takes 3.4s to empty. Home at Last <3
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2300	Posted - 2015.01.19 02:36:00 - [35] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Atiim wrote: Because you're not great with the AR? Against Shield users the AR is much better than the ACR (an extra 130 DPS) but against Armor users the ACR is better by only 94 DPS. Given how the DPS losses and gains are in favor of the AR, your complaint is unfounded. My theory is that the high RoF allows you to slow down targets more therfore making it easier to shoot your target the longer you shoot at them. It is a less exaggerated version of what happens with the HMG. The rate of fire might be high enough to make even shield suits very slow. Then again I am unsure what determines how much each shot slows you down: whether it's just RoF or if damage is a factor. They removed that. Slowdown doesn't happen anymore. And it was a stat called 'Momentum'. Rail Weapons had the highest, Projectiles had the second highest, Blaster took third, and Lasers had the least. Are you sure? Haven't you ever found it hard to move while being shot by the HMG? I'm almost positive. I remember that a lot of people didn't like the effect, and that CCP did something with it. I might be assuming too much by saying they removed it, as they might have just reduced it... They also might have only done something to the HMG, as well I suppose. Anecdotal bits ahead. I have found it hard to move, but only with the HMG, and even then I haven't noticed anything since they changed it in some way. I really wish that we could get some real stat databases for us to access. In game. This is the kind of stuff we need to know if CCP ever wants extremely helpful feedback... Home at Last <3
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 533	Posted - 2015.01.19 02:51:00 - [36] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Imp Smash wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Imp Smash wrote: Well, I'm not sure it is irrelevant. I mean, so Lets say: Gun X: Has 1500 damage in the clip. Gun Y: Has 1900 damage in the clip. Then you'd say that gun X isn't as good as Gun Y by that alone. Now Say that Gun X can empty that 1500 damage in 1 second, whereas Gun Y takes 2 seconds. I mean, we talk about DPS often for a reason right? So, how much faster can you empty a CR clip than an AR clip? It doesn't matter. Its the DPS and DpM that matters in this scenario, which the AR has more of both. An AR outputs more damage per second, for a larger amount of time. The stats that really matter are DPS and Damage per mag/heat (DpM). AR DPS: 412 ACR DPS: 397.6 AR DpM: 2163 ACR DpM: 1352 As you can see, the AR both outputs damage at a faster rate, and can output much more damage before it has to stop. Fair enough. So you don't know how exactly fast an AR can empty the clip and how fast the AR can empty the clip then but have an idea? I would assume by the DpM you listed and the DPS you listed that the ACR empties at about 2x the speed of the AR then? The AR takes 5.25s to empty. The ACR takes 3.4s to empty. And how many bullets are in an AR clip and how many are in an ACR clip? Or CR clip?
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1811	Posted - 2015.01.19 02:53:00 - [37] - Quote Because Dual Tanking > Armor > Shields.
DozersMouse XIII Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 921	Posted - 2015.01.19 03:02:00 - [38] - Quote I like them both because they both kill "I had no idea you could milk a cat." "Oh yeah, you can milk anything with nipples."
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 7145	Posted - 2015.01.19 03:10:00 - [39] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: And how many bullets are in an AR clip and how many are in an ACR clip? Or CR clip? Seriously, just boot up your PS3 and look at the stats. You are acting like the stats aren't publicly available. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 533	Posted - 2015.01.19 03:58:00 - [40] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Imp Smash wrote: And how many bullets are in an AR clip and how many are in an ACR clip? Or CR clip? Seriously, just boot up your PS3 and look at the stats. You are acting like the stats aren't publicly available. At work :(

DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 7147	Posted - 2015.01.19 04:36:00 - [41] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Imp Smash wrote: And how many bullets are in an AR clip and how many are in an ACR clip? Or CR clip? Seriously, just boot up your PS3 and look at the stats. You are acting like the stats aren't publicly available. At work :( Standard AR is 70, CR is 54(67 with Minmatar Assault level V) Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 15129	Posted - 2015.01.19 05:33:00 - [42] - Quote AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 5600	Posted - 2015.01.19 05:37:00 - [43] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... Faster RoF? That's what made the ACR perform better than the AR back in the day (I mean, it was a joke back then, but that's besides the point). Raise it by 50 or so just to try it out.
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 14485	Posted - 2015.01.19 05:46:00 - [44] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... Maybe your Range to DPS ratio underestimates the importance of range? Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! Assault Conglomerate: Because we don't shave
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1921	Posted - 2015.01.19 05:50:00 - [45] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... Because its still in roughly the same range as the HMG... which does 600 dps vs shields or >800+ vs armor with no skills. If the HMG wasn't THE BEST weapon at close range and outclassing the AR by ~ 300 dps with dmg mods / proficiency this might not be such an issue. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2905	Posted - 2015.01.19 05:56:00 - [46] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... It's the shortest range weapon, yet is shield oriente -- it's always going to struggle when you hit the barrier of armor and armor still dominates the battlefield. Personally, I think it needs a DPS buff (or a perhaps +5/-5 damage profile). The only way I can really get it to work right now is to use it with a speed tanked gal assault and engage at a distance where hipfire is accurate for me and not my opponent (15-ish meter)....or use the breach AR which is still viable for low-hp targets.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3563	Posted - 2015.01.19 05:57:00 - [47] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... ARE YOU KIDDING ME??!?!?! Its the friggen FOTM right now, and you want to buff it??!?!?! "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 800	Posted - 2015.01.19 06:07:00 - [48] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... Go look at blaster weapons in eve. They do higher damage per shot than any other close range weapon and second highest rate of fire. Gallente weapon bonuses are always damage and rate of fire. The AR should be the shotgun of rifles. Superior, overwhelming dps regardless of whatever you're shooting at. That said, gallente ships would have the same problem though if propulsion mods were moved to low slots. The problem with AR is with application because of it's short range. You need to be faster than your target in order to get into and stay within range. Madruggar tanks without a fuel injector have the same problem when using blasters too. The fix is two things: 1. increase sprint speed of gallente or move kincats to high slots. 2. Place AR dps higher. Keep increasing damage as rof is good enough. 40 damage per shot at standard. See what happens.
voidfaction Nos Nothi 1021	Posted - 2015.01.19 06:22:00 - [49] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... Maybe your Range to DPS ratio underestimates the importance of range? Could also be that the Gal Assault has a... underwhelming bonus. Agree I like the Gal bonus only because it makes the gal weapons ALMOST as accurate when you hip-fire as the other racial weapons. Still better to use an aCR or aRR for accuracy and better range. I don't use any Amarr weapons so no idea on them. Not sure, Is the bad kick and dispersion supposed to be a help in CqC or what? If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 5600	Posted - 2015.01.19 06:23:00 - [50] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... Go look at blaster weapons in eve. They do higher damage per shot than any other close range weapon and second highest rate of fire. Gallente weapon bonuses are always damage and rate of fire. The AR should be the shotgun of rifles. Superior, overwhelming dps regardless of whatever you're shooting at. That said, gallente ships would have the same problem though if propulsion mods were moved to low slots. The problem with AR is with application because of it's short range. You need to be faster than your target in order to get into and stay within range. Madruggar tanks without a fuel injector have the same problem when using blasters too. The fix is two things: 1. increase sprint speed of gallente or move kincats to high slots. 2. Place AR dps higher. Keep increasing damage as rof is good enough. 40 damage per shot at standard. See what happens. Ooohhhh, I like both proposals :3

Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 534	Posted - 2015.01.19 06:26:00 - [51] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Imp Smash wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Imp Smash wrote: And how many bullets are in an AR clip and how many are in an ACR clip? Or CR clip? Seriously, just boot up your PS3 and look at the stats. You are acting like the stats aren't publicly available. At work :( Standard AR is 70, CR is 54(67 with Minmatar Assault level V) Thank you! So almost identical bullet count. Fizzer XCIV wrote: Fair enough. So you don't know how exactly fast an AR can empty the clip and how fast the AR can empty the clip then but have an idea? I would assume by the DpM you listed and the DPS you listed that the ACR empties at about 2x the speed of the AR then? The AR takes 5.25s to empty. The ACR takes 3.4s to empty.[/quote] So with identical bullet counts the CR fires about 50% faster than the AR. Do the RPMs on the guns reflect that?
LAVALLOIS Nash 453	Posted - 2015.01.19 06:27:00 - [52] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... It's the shortest range weapon, yet is shield oriented -- it's always going to struggle when you hit the barrier of armor. And that's what happens with the AR -- you run into armor tankers and die. Personally, I think it needs a bit of a DPS buff (or a perhaps +5/-5 damage profile). The only way I can really get it to work right now is to use it with a speed tanked gal assault and engage at a distance where hipfire is accurate for me and not my opponent (15-ish meter)...or just pull out the ARR with the much better armor profile and, for me, simply a better overall performer. But really, the AR is not that far off, IMO. Yeah thats the biggest disadvantage of a AR and the biggest advantage of a CR. If I have a ACR, I can just carry fluxes or count on the fact that not many people shield tank anyway. Once the shields are gone, it will shred armor, even tanked armor. The AR though, doesn't always have enough punch to keep killing, especially if the target is wildly evasive. im not quite sure how balancing it could fix it, as its tied more to peoples equipment choices. Not to mention you can remove someones shield tank with a flux, but you cant do that for armor. The ARs biggest impact can be replaced by using a militia flux grenade.
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 14487	Posted - 2015.01.19 07:09:00 - [53] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... ARE YOU KIDDING ME??!?!?! Its the friggen FOTM right now, and you want to buff it??!?!?! FOTM in your head maybe. Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! Assault Conglomerate: Because we don't shave
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 20878	Posted - 2015.01.19 07:17:00 - [54] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... I imagine this is because if you use an AR, you operate in the same ranges as the HMG. If you are operating in the same ranges as the HMG, you die horribly and often. Sometimes, one just has an overwhelming urge to throw a potato at someone.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 3153	Posted - 2015.01.19 07:34:00 - [55] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... Better iron sights or atleast more intuitive scope or UI with the gun. The gun has always been decent... Just the average user even in veteran circles barely knows where to aim with the iron sights... And that it is that teeeny weeeny little dot ontop of the iron sight. The Variants suffer from similar problems... The Tac and Burst scope has never gone over to well in DUST.... In Beta we had completely different scopes... Only time other then beta the gun was useful was when Uprising launched and hit detection was so messed they where the only two guns that worked consistently... Then we found out Turbo's worked with CCP Wolfman's reworked Bloom and aiming mechanics that he did for Uprising. The standard AR Got tweaked after Aim assist was launched in 1.4.. AR and Aim assist was to strong specially with damage mods at the time..... 1.5? The AR got nerfed..... Then the hit detection with the gun from that point has always been lagged... It has been optimized a bit ... but the lag or time in which your client and the server registers hits and deaths on targets has never felt right since... If good Sights and scopes where put on the AR and variants the gun would be worth it for the average DUST mercenary...
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 9268	Posted - 2015.01.19 07:38:00 - [56] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... I imagine this is because if you use an AR, you operate in the same ranges as the HMG. If you are operating in the same ranges as the HMG, you die horribly and often. If the HMG wasn't so noob friendly maybe we could get somewhere. Also, with the AR I'd think it fair to give it more optimal range but with Ion Pistol rate of falloff, which is damn near instant to 0. I don't want to wreck at longer ranges, I just want to do good in my intended range. If you use a Gallente Assault Rifle and commonly engage enemies at 65+ meters you'd do much better off with any other weapon at that point. Longer optimal, shorter falloff.....and give us a ~~Grenade~~ Plasma Launcher for our Rifles as well please! Pretty please, I'll buy more AUR! CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 9268	Posted - 2015.01.19 07:49:00 - [57] - Quote I also do remember all the rifles getting nerfed to increase ttk a while back, I'm not sure if we got our damage back to the way it was back then but I do remember the Plasma Rifle didn't need to be touched at all. Whoever the DEVs were at the time were just swinging the nerf hammer widely and sporadically. During the Short TTK era the Plasma Rifle still sucked but not because it was terrible. The Plasma Rifle was damn near perfect but in comparison to other rifles at the time it couldn't hold a candle to the other Rifle's TTK, then they blindly nerf all rifles and that puts it in the common era that we are still in now. In fact, the Plasma Rifle started sucking when it was the only rifle in the game and people started crying that they were getting killed too often (By the only general purpose weapon in the game) so CCP proceeded to nerf it for god knows what. P.S. And yes, I know the Duvolle Tactical had a short time in the sun for a brief second. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Big Burns Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 321	Posted - 2015.01.19 07:58:00 - [58] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... The solution to your problem. - Uprising 1.2 Duvolle Tactical Assault Rifle, 150 damage per round with seemingly unlimited damage mods, minus stacking penalties. 1 shotting scouts again would balance the cloaking issue and save you guys time. I'm a try-hard, because half my team sits in the MCC.
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 14491	Posted - 2015.01.19 08:19:00 - [59] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: I also do remember all the rifles getting nerfed to increase ttk a while back, I'm not sure if we got our damage back to the way it was back then but I do remember the Plasma Rifle didn't need to be touched at all. Whoever the DEVs were at the time were just swinging the nerf hammer widely and sporadically. During the Short TTK era the Plasma Rifle still sucked but not because it was terrible. The Plasma Rifle was damn near perfect but in comparison to other rifles at the time it couldn't hold a candle to the other Rifle's TTK, then they blindly nerf all rifles and that puts it in the common era that we are still in now. In fact, the Plasma Rifle started sucking when it was the only rifle in the game and people started crying that they were getting killed too often (By the only general purpose weapon in the game) so CCP proceeded to nerf it for god knows what. P.S. And yes, I know the Duvolle Tactical had a short time in the sun for a brief second. Duvolle at the time had 37 damage, but had a ROF of 750. We now have 34 damage but with a ROF of 800 and a larger mag. Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! Assault Conglomerate: Because we don't shave
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 7151	Posted - 2015.01.19 08:25:00 - [60] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... I imagine this is because if you use an AR, you operate in the same ranges as the HMG. If you are operating in the same ranges as the HMG, you die horribly and often. It's not just the HMG though. All the Assault variants seem to do better than the standard AR. The ACR has better RoF, the ARR lacks recoil for the first couple shots and the ASCR had virtually no dispersion which means it is extremely easy to land head shots. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.

Varoth Drac Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 550	Posted - 2015.01.19 08:28:00 - [61] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... I'd maybe wait a bit. It does seem to be getting more popular. Just yesterday I added some to my logi fits. If you have to change anything, maybe look at the Gallente assault bonus. Is 25% dispersion reduction enough?
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1843	Posted - 2015.01.19 08:37:00 - [62] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... I hope you are joking, tried the ARs with a respec and they are all beasts now. I was getting top KDR with them in FW. if there is anything wrong about gallente tech then it is the fact that gallente suits have the same mobility stats as caldari. gallente should be able to close the gap faster to apply their DPS up close.
Francois Sanchez Prima Gallicus 211	Posted - 2015.01.19 09:03:00 - [63] - Quote Please Rattati don't buff it again, the gun is fine, it's more accurate, has more DPS, more damage per clip, better hit detection, this gun is working great. When you have a dual tanked suit (my Minmando has 412 shield and 406 armour), you realise how powerful the AR is, I prefer getting shot by a PRO ACR than by a GEK-38 AR. And if you have a shield oriented suit, the AR is a nightmare. The problem isn't the AR, it's the meta. People are armour tanking. You can't make an anti-shield weapon performs as well as an anti-armour weapon without making it completely overpowered. I really wonder why you think the AR needs a buff again.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 804	Posted - 2015.01.19 09:08:00 - [64] - Quote Francois Sanchez wrote: Please Rattati don't buff it again, the gun is fine, it's more accurate, has more DPS, more damage per clip, better hit detection, this gun is working great. When you have a dual tanked suit (my Minmando has 412 shield and 406 armour), you realise how powerful the AR is, I prefer getting shot by a PRO ACR than by a GEK-38 AR. And if you have a shield oriented suit, the AR is a nightmare. The problem isn't the AR, it's the meta. People are armour tanking. You can't make an anti-shield weapon performs as well as an anti-armour weapon without making it completely overpowered. I really wonder why you think the AR needs a buff again. this is true. but its also true that gallente need a way to compensate for the short range of the AR. they need to control range to apply AR damage.
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 14492	Posted - 2015.01.19 09:21:00 - [65] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... I hope you are joking, tried the ARs with a respec and they are all beasts now. I was getting top KDR with them in FW. if there is anything wrong about gallente tech then it is the fact that gallente suits have the same mobility stats as caldari. gallente should be able to close the gap faster to apply their DPS up close. That is my theory. We are lacking in mobility. Putting two kin cats on a Gallente Assault MASSIVELY boosts the combat effectiveness of the Duvolle, but considering you can do the same on a Caldari suit and sacrifice much less of your main tank, the Duvolle works better on the Cal Assault. Same for Min Assault, their stamina regen combined with innate high speed makes them better with the Duvolle than the Gal Assault. Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! Assault Conglomerate: Because we don't shave
Francois Sanchez Prima Gallicus 211	Posted - 2015.01.19 09:24:00 - [66] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Francois Sanchez wrote: Please Rattati don't buff it again, the gun is fine, it's more accurate, has more DPS, more damage per clip, better hit detection, this gun is working great. When you have a dual tanked suit (my Minmando has 412 shield and 406 armour), you realise how powerful the AR is, I prefer getting shot by a PRO ACR than by a GEK-38 AR. And if you have a shield oriented suit, the AR is a nightmare. The problem isn't the AR, it's the meta. People are armour tanking. You can't make an anti-shield weapon performs as well as an anti-armour weapon without making it completely overpowered. I really wonder why you think the AR needs a buff again. this is true. but its also true that gallente need a way to compensate for the short range of the AR. they need to control range to apply AR damage. To me that's more a suit problem than a gun problem. And also if you play smartly with your gal assault you can easily be in good range except on a few maps. Getting close is quite easy when you've played scout before 1.8, but being close leads to problems with the OP HMG
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 14492	Posted - 2015.01.19 09:24:00 - [67] - Quote Francois Sanchez wrote: Please Rattati don't buff it again, the gun is fine, it's more accurate, has more DPS, more damage per clip, better hit detection, this gun is working great. When you have a dual tanked suit (my Minmando has 412 shield and 406 armour), you realise how powerful the AR is, I prefer getting shot by a PRO ACR than by a GEK-38 AR. And if you have a shield oriented suit, the AR is a nightmare. The problem isn't the AR, it's the meta. People are armour tanking. You can't make an anti-shield weapon performs as well as an anti-armour weapon without making it completely overpowered. I really wonder why you think the AR needs a buff again. And yet the SCR used to overperform by quite a bit according to Rattati's stats, and that thing has a +20/-20 profile at the height of armor tanking. Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! Assault Conglomerate: Because we don't shave
Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES 1569	Posted - 2015.01.19 10:14:00 - [68] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... I think making things weaker and giving more rounds is goofy. You ruined a great side arm much the same way. Crush them
Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES 1569	Posted - 2015.01.19 10:16:00 - [69] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... I think making things weaker and giving more rounds is goofy. You ruined a great side arm much the same way. Crush them
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 3723	Posted - 2015.01.19 10:52:00 - [70] - Quote Try to add more "sbundation" Situational awareness also known as passive scan. Minmatar omni-merc

Atom Heart Mother Nazionali Senza Filtro 146	Posted - 2015.01.19 10:56:00 - [71] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... Pretty sure the CR will be nerfed then....no, all light weapons will so to meet AR specs... Hey, by the way. where is my third grenade gone?
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6585	Posted - 2015.01.19 11:04:00 - [72] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... Slow down the rate of fire and buff the base hits. I am noticing more and more that higher RoF weapons have a more difficult time applying damage to targets. Aim assist helps but does not completely cure the phenomenon. It's noticable when using small blaster turrets and HMGs. Magsec also has the problem to a lesser extent. Aim assist is tge bandaid that reduces the issue. Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
rpastry Dead Man's Game 259	Posted - 2015.01.19 11:13:00 - [73] - Quote as others have said its the most challenging to use effectively. more a suit buff needed than a gun buff. I wouldn't change base speed, seems anti-lore and illogical for an armour suit. maybe a stamina buff, or a PG buff? fitting buff for kincats? }:-) [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1845	Posted - 2015.01.19 11:35:00 - [74] - Quote rpastry wrote: as others have said its the most challenging to use effectively. more a suit buff needed than a gun buff. I wouldn't change base speed, seems anti-lore and illogical for an armour suit. maybe a stamina buff, or a PG buff? fitting buff for kincats? }:-) stop pretending that you know something about eve lore. gallente stuff is supposed to be faster than caldari and amarr.
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 14495	Posted - 2015.01.19 11:54:00 - [75] - Quote rpastry wrote: as others have said its the most challenging to use effectively. more a suit buff needed than a gun buff. I wouldn't change base speed, seems anti-lore and illogical for an armour suit. maybe a stamina buff, or a PG buff? fitting buff for kincats? }:-) Gallente ships in EVE are actually the second fastest after the Minmatar. Gallente also tend to fit Micro Warp Drives (Think kin cats only in high slots). These EAT capacitor which means you have to use them in bursts (in general, depending on how you make your fit), so Gallente tend to be uber fast but in bursts, meaning they close the distance and then rip you to shreds. Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! Assault Conglomerate: Because we don't shave
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 14495	Posted - 2015.01.19 11:56:00 - [76] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: rpastry wrote: as others have said its the most challenging to use effectively. more a suit buff needed than a gun buff. I wouldn't change base speed, seems anti-lore and illogical for an armour suit. maybe a stamina buff, or a PG buff? fitting buff for kincats? }:-) being fast has not much do to with "armor" or "shield". shield is not generated for free and shield generators are heavy. additionally it has nothing to do with eve lore. gallente is faster than amarr and caldari, simple as that, dust just for some reason does not follow this doctrine though. They just decided to go the lazy route and have Gallente mirror Caldari in stats. Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! Assault Conglomerate: Because we don't shave
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3719	Posted - 2015.01.19 12:29:00 - [77] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... Only thing wrong with the AR is the dispersion....if that is even a problem. You need to buff the ACR. All of the shield weapons are getting buffed while the ACR (armor weapon) received a steep dispersion nerf. Hate not being rewarded when my crosshairs are on the enemy. Buff the dispersion to the ACR. Shield tanking is hard mode /period. > Check RND out here
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law 866	Posted - 2015.01.19 13:57:00 - [78] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... Damage profile switched to vs armor? 10100111001 Shield tanking is hard mode /period. 10100111001
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1738	Posted - 2015.01.19 13:57:00 - [79] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... My analysis: Considerably higher damage is NOT the way to go - that is hard to balance and likely to break some suit balancing done. Instead, I propose hipfire being the key and AR given more clear advantage in that. Hipfire and strafing is most critical in close quarters. If other weapons have weaker hipfire accuracy/dispersion behavior, it automatically buffs the reliable guns. Pro-choice! For hazardous self-activated inertial dampeners! We want to live on the edge (((of MCC)))
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2304	Posted - 2015.01.19 14:09:00 - [80] - Quote As others have said, I don't think its a problem of the AR underperforming as much as it is a problem of the HMG completely blowing it away in its own ranges, while also bekng a very popular and easy weapon to do. The ARs stats suggest that is is fine, and that's its a meta problem. I'd say avoid any more hard buffs to it. See what you can do to evict HMGs from being the absolute be-all end-all for CQC combat. I personally like the idea that was posted in Features and Ideas a few days ago, where the HMG user slows down while firing, like with the Forge Gun. Home at Last <3

demonkiller 12 The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 450	Posted - 2015.01.19 14:23:00 - [81] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... a scope on the standard variant, whether optional or not I WANT A SCOPE
Balistyc Farshot The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 30	Posted - 2015.01.19 14:24:00 - [82] - Quote The ACR has fewer bullets and a higher ROF. It is an uzi so it doesn't have the capabilities and AR has at range. That is why it out performs the AR in CQC and should out perform the AR. I don't use the ACR because it is only effective for one range. Plus you run out of ammo so quickly you die reloading or looking for some ammo after you get a kill. Why do you need the AR to be effective every where? This is a game of balancing, so if you go with the AR expect to be middle of the road at all ranges. Next post will be why the AR is losing to the RR at long range. Heavy with a massive bullet hose called Lola (Burst HMG).
demonkiller 12 The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 450	Posted - 2015.01.19 14:25:00 - [83] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... ARE YOU KIDDING ME??!?!?! Its the friggen FOTM right now, and you want to buff it??!?!?! hasnt been fotm since the breach shinaneganz and that was the breach not the AR itself
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 6754	Posted - 2015.01.19 14:36:00 - [84] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... Rattati, what are you talking about? The AR and BAR are exception weapons! I don't even have the AR skills to V and I can straight up murder folks with this thing. Can you tell us what the service rifle numbers look like; Kills per Death, etc? Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley
Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1556	Posted - 2015.01.19 15:26:00 - [85] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... Nobody shield tanks but trust me when I'm in a Cal Assault, there is nothing that I don't want to face more than the ScR and AR. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 255	Posted - 2015.01.19 15:45:00 - [86] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Jack McReady wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... I hope you are joking, tried the ARs with a respec and they are all beasts now. I was getting top KDR with them in FW. if there is anything wrong about gallente tech then it is the fact that gallente suits have the same mobility stats as caldari. gallente should be able to close the gap faster to apply their DPS up close. That is my theory. We are lacking in mobility. Putting two kin cats on a Gallente Assault MASSIVELY boosts the combat effectiveness of the Duvolle, but considering you can do the same on a Caldari suit and sacrifice much less of your main tank, the Duvolle works better on the Cal Assault. Same for Min Assault, their stamina regen combined with innate high speed makes them better with the Duvolle than the Gal Assault. The cal assault is not better than the gal assault with an AR, the damage mods you can stack on your gal assault really decreases the TTK against armour which is much needed. A cal assault using a kincat has to downgrade something i.e a shield extender/weapon/equipment to fit it, and will still lose to a gal assault in a 1v1 with both sides uses ARs. The cal assault will give you the longest TTK when using the AR. The min assault is the best with 2 damage mods on the AR and great speed and fairly decent HP.
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 201	Posted - 2015.01.19 15:45:00 - [87] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... I have played the AR since my beginning. Before the hotfixes you made, it was howful (between 1.8 and the hotfixes). For me, it's actually a good weapon, and very well-balanced (if we talk about the 800RPM one). The only thing (and that's why people thing it's UP) is that the Scrambler rifle (tactical) is so good, and is better as an anti-shield weapon (I think). Maybe improve the range, that's the only bad thing about this weapon... A ACr can kil people very easily at 65m, an ARr at 75m, same for the scrambler... But the assault rifle is good only up to 50m... Maybe improve it up to 55/60m, and it will make the difference Like a dream
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 120	Posted - 2015.01.19 16:03:00 - [88] - Quote The only variants of the assault plasma rifle that I enjoy using are the officer ones. While the Kalente has high DPS (nor rof or damage per shot specifically) the Krin and Baloc are the ones that really preform fore me. The krins barely does more damage than proto, but it has lower dispersion (closer to a combat rifle) and way better range (50m optimal and 85m effective) the balac also has that range profile. To me this suggests that range adjustments on the assault assault variant could use an adjustment. Perhaps giving it better optimal rang (50m puts it at the same gap between optimal and effective range as a ScR or RR) would help bolster its popularity. There is another factor to consider. The nearly identical DPS breach variant (3 more DPS than the assault) feels much better to use. This is because of its low kick/dispersion. Especially during hipfire. When ADS you can get headshots more easily due to the low kick, and then low dispersion makes strafe play easier. This is both why the Gal assaults complain about their skill (they have an identical damage variant that has low kick/dispersion so they don't feel a need to have more) and why the skill is so useful. It can improve other variants significantly. If you also make the Gal assault bonus lower ADS kick and dispersion in addition to just hipfire, then it should help on this factor. Overall, I recommend looking again at optimal range. 42m is low. Make it 50m instead. Then it should help make the gun feel more useful besides just up close where the HMGs play. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 255	Posted - 2015.01.19 16:19:00 - [89] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: There is another factor to consider. The nearly identical DPS breach variant (3 more DPS than the assault) feels much better to use. This is because of its low kick/dispersion. Especially during hipfire. When ADS you can get headshots more easily due to the low kick, and then low dispersion makes strafe play easier. This is both why the Gal assaults complain about their skill (they have an identical damage variant that has low kick/dispersion so they don't feel a need to have more) and why the skill is so useful. It can improve other variants significantly. If you also make the Gal assault bonus lower ADS kick and dispersion in addition to just hipfire, then it should help on this factor. Overall, I recommend looking again at optimal range. 42m is low. Make it 50m instead. Then it should help make the gun feel more useful besides just up close where the HMGs play. I don't understand why the assault variant (the base rifle for the gallente) does not have the highest DPS of the plasma rifles. In fact it's the complete opposite where the breach does for some reason, the breach variant should have the lowest DPS, longest firing time, probably a scope and more range. Then it would be the RR for the gallente (as originally intended) and wouldn't step on the regular AR's toes, leaving the AR more unique.
Middas Betancore Mantodea MC 372	Posted - 2015.01.19 16:20:00 - [90] - Quote Oddly I found my cal scout with assault rail wasn't quite performing how I liked, it felt too cumbersome up close, the spool and the massive recoil wasn't working for me anymore along with not having a reload bonus like my assault and commando I thought back to my beta days an thought of the blaster/plasma/assault rifle My scout fights CQC a lot...maybe I should use a blaster instead It definitely made it easier, instant fire , good dispersion off the hip, now with 70 round magazine Working a lot better, as for why it's not used much... I think for general up close bullet spewing ppl turn to the ACR for that job Perhaps it's the -10% vs armour that puts ppl off, the ACR chews through armour heavies much easier And that's the CQC fight ppl want to win, throw on the combat rifles reload skill and it's hard to compete with Some thoughts, wish I had a more useful solution....bigger magazines again...so it has markedly more than the ACR "Deploy the gas, we'll burn what's left"- Redacted

DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 7154	Posted - 2015.01.19 17:20:00 - [91] - Quote I would suggest giving higher damage within 15m. Right now the ARis decent at mid range and mediocre at CQC. That should be changed. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Jathniel G I A N T 1439	Posted - 2015.01.19 17:23:00 - [92] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... It's the damage profiles. And the armor meta. It's not that the AR is weak or needs something, it's that shield suits suck ass right now. So everyone is running some sort of armor suit atm, the very thing the AR is weaker against. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=187731&find=unread If we give shielders proper balances, then more people would run them, and the AR would have more proper prey. The current numbers on the AR are extremely high right now, and would have been intolerable to the community just a year and half ago. But we are at this point where people are demanding that anti-shield weapons be good against armor, because thats all they are facing in matches. If we keep pushing buffs at it, we will break it. Retired
Myron Kundera Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 149	Posted - 2015.01.19 17:31:00 - [93] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... You need to buff ROF or optimal range on the AR or change the Gallente Assault bonus to ROF or optimal range per level. "Greed, the forgotten mental disease" "Spray and pray makes my day" "Will use proto gear in self defense"
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2307	Posted - 2015.01.19 17:33:00 - [94] - Quote Myron Kundera wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... You need to buff ROF or optimal range on the AR or change the Gallente Assault bonus to ROF or optimal range per level. Wat? Home at Last <3
Myron Kundera Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 149	Posted - 2015.01.19 17:37:00 - [95] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Myron Kundera wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... You need to buff ROF or optimal range on the AR or change the Gallente Assault bonus to ROF or optimal range per level. Wat? the fox say? "Greed, the forgotten mental disease" "Spray and pray makes my day" "Will use proto gear in self defense"
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 5621	Posted - 2015.01.19 19:35:00 - [96] - Quote Myron Kundera wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... You need to buff ROF or optimal range on the AR or change the Gallente Assault bonus to ROF or optimal range per level. That specific change to the Gallente Assault has been proposed since ancient times, but we haven't seen it happen.
Nirwanda Vaughns 1238	Posted - 2015.01.19 21:26:00 - [97] - Quote depends what you're coming up against. if its a heavy shield tanker the ACR is screwed and the AR performs better and vice-versa. all depends on what suit you have them on. if you put the weapon to sthe suit that they're built for, BAR on Gal Assault, ACR on a min that will also change how they behave. too high shields htough and my republic ACR with 85 rounds and max skills can still struggle to break even a C-I's shields Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 121	Posted - 2015.01.19 21:49:00 - [98] - Quote Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: I don't understand why the assault variant (the base rifle for the gallente) does not have the highest DPS of the plasma rifles. In fact it's the complete opposite where the breach does for some reason, the breach variant should have the lowest DPS, longest firing time, probably a scope and more range. Then it would be the RR for the gallente (as originally intended) and wouldn't step on the regular AR's toes, leaving the AR more unique. It goes Tactical, burst, breach, assault. The breach is higher than the assault by about 3 dps at all tiers. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 7909	Posted - 2015.01.19 23:37:00 - [99] - Quote As others have said in this thread: Range > DPS HMG > AR Trying to fit an AR in the world of Shotguns and HMGs was a problem from the start, especially considering that Cloak Scouts benefit the shotgun so well and Sentinels with their extreme amounts of HP benefit high DPS HMGs. The questions that have to be asked are: If the Shotgun and HMG are the kings of CQC, and the AR is designed for CQC... Then what meaningful role does it truly play? What can it offer that other rifles do not when it's DPS closely matches theirs but falls short of range and beneficial damage profiles? What function does this weapon serve that we do not already have? But please ignore anything I say as I have been using the AR since closed beta and clearly anything I say is extremely biased toward wanting an OP weapon. Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 539	Posted - 2015.01.19 23:46:00 - [100] - Quote Blue tag posts. Conversation involving math and about 6-7 people interested in it devolves into post with tons of random posts with anecdotal evidence and complete lack of evidence + random suggestions and jumps to completely unrelated topics. (it's a thread about CRs vs Ars, but lets talk about how the ScR or the HmG compares...anecdotally of course.) Hilarity ensues.

Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 5630	Posted - 2015.01.19 23:51:00 - [101] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: Blue tag posts. Conversation involving math and about 6-7 people interested in it devolves into post with tons of random posts with anecdotal evidence and complete lack of evidence + random suggestions and jumps to completely unrelated topics. (it's a thread about CRs vs Ars, but lets talk about how the ScR or the HmG compares...anecdotally of course.) Hilarity ensues. Hell yeah! GD rules!
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3566	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:09:00 - [102] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Francois Sanchez wrote: Please Rattati don't buff it again, the gun is fine, it's more accurate, has more DPS, more damage per clip, better hit detection, this gun is working great. When you have a dual tanked suit (my Minmando has 412 shield and 406 armour), you realise how powerful the AR is, I prefer getting shot by a PRO ACR than by a GEK-38 AR. And if you have a shield oriented suit, the AR is a nightmare. The problem isn't the AR, it's the meta. People are armour tanking. You can't make an anti-shield weapon performs as well as an anti-armour weapon without making it completely overpowered. I really wonder why you think the AR needs a buff again. And yet the SCR used to overperform by quite a bit according to Rattati's stats, and that thing has a +20/-20 profile at the height of armor tanking. Thats because even now it outDPSes the CR against armor, and shields are LOL... Its a brokenly powerful weapon, and the only thing that compares is the TAR, which doesn't even have as good handling as it. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2318	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:12:00 - [103] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Francois Sanchez wrote: Please Rattati don't buff it again, the gun is fine, it's more accurate, has more DPS, more damage per clip, better hit detection, this gun is working great. When you have a dual tanked suit (my Minmando has 412 shield and 406 armour), you realise how powerful the AR is, I prefer getting shot by a PRO ACR than by a GEK-38 AR. And if you have a shield oriented suit, the AR is a nightmare. The problem isn't the AR, it's the meta. People are armour tanking. You can't make an anti-shield weapon performs as well as an anti-armour weapon without making it completely overpowered. I really wonder why you think the AR needs a buff again. And yet the SCR used to overperform by quite a bit according to Rattati's stats, and that thing has a +20/-20 profile at the height of armor tanking. Thats because even now it outDPSes the CR against armor, and shields are LOL... Its a brokenly powerful weapon, and the only thing that compares is the TAR, which doesn't even have as good handling as it. ScR Armor DPS: 572 CR Armor DPS: 640.4 Nope. Home at Last <3
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3566	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:14:00 - [104] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Francois Sanchez wrote: Please Rattati don't buff it again, the gun is fine, it's more accurate, has more DPS, more damage per clip, better hit detection, this gun is working great. When you have a dual tanked suit (my Minmando has 412 shield and 406 armour), you realise how powerful the AR is, I prefer getting shot by a PRO ACR than by a GEK-38 AR. And if you have a shield oriented suit, the AR is a nightmare. The problem isn't the AR, it's the meta. People are armour tanking. You can't make an anti-shield weapon performs as well as an anti-armour weapon without making it completely overpowered. I really wonder why you think the AR needs a buff again. And yet the SCR used to overperform by quite a bit according to Rattati's stats, and that thing has a +20/-20 profile at the height of armor tanking. Thats because even now it outDPSes the CR against armor, and shields are LOL... Its a brokenly powerful weapon, and the only thing that compares is the TAR, which doesn't even have as good handling as it. ScR Armor DPS: 572 CR Armor DPS: 640.4 Nope. Hmm...let me double check that. I know for certain it outDPSed the Cr before the RoF nerf, and I was fairly certain it still outDPSed it now. But if the ScR has that much armor DPS, wouldn't it make sense for the CR to have that much shield DPS, considering its a shorter ranged weapon? "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2319	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:26:00 - [105] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Francois Sanchez wrote: Please Rattati don't buff it again, the gun is fine, it's more accurate, has more DPS, more damage per clip, better hit detection, this gun is working great. When you have a dual tanked suit (my Minmando has 412 shield and 406 armour), you realise how powerful the AR is, I prefer getting shot by a PRO ACR than by a GEK-38 AR. And if you have a shield oriented suit, the AR is a nightmare. The problem isn't the AR, it's the meta. People are armour tanking. You can't make an anti-shield weapon performs as well as an anti-armour weapon without making it completely overpowered. I really wonder why you think the AR needs a buff again. And yet the SCR used to overperform by quite a bit according to Rattati's stats, and that thing has a +20/-20 profile at the height of armor tanking. Thats because even now it outDPSes the CR against armor, and shields are LOL... Its a brokenly powerful weapon, and the only thing that compares is the TAR, which doesn't even have as good handling as it. ScR Armor DPS: 572 CR Armor DPS: 640.4 Nope. Hmm...let me double check that. I know for certain it outDPSed the Cr before the RoF nerf, and I was fairly certain it still outDPSed it now. But if the ScR has that much armor DPS, wouldn't it make sense for the CR to have that much shield DPS, considering its a shorter ranged weapon? Well its not like the ScR ever actually does that much DPS due to it being semiauto. You're more likely to actually see about 400-455 Armor DPS, as most people usually fire at around 7-8 rounds per second, on average, instead of the full 10 at all times. In the same vein, you are also unlikley to see the same full DPS out of a CR. I'd expect about 500-550 Armor DPS out of a CR. Home at Last <3
Petra 222 SoM Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 34	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:27:00 - [106] - Quote This is interesting... I have found my AR's to be very strong and effective right now, maybe even more so than my combat rifles. also a big plus is that some of the best sidearms have armor profiles: smg, boltpistol, flyalock, and are a perfect match with an AR. but shiiiit I'll take a buff to the AR lol. Can't believe my BrAR/BurstAR may be getting even stronger! this game is nuts.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 7161	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:42:00 - [107] - Quote Petra 222 SoM wrote: This is interesting... I have found my AR's to be very strong and effective right now, maybe even more so than my combat rifles. also a big plus is that some of the best sidearms have armor profiles: smg, boltpistol, flyalock, and are a perfect match with an AR. but shiiiit I'll take a buff to the AR lol. Can't believe my BrAR/BurstAR may be getting even stronger! this game is nuts. We are not discussing the Burst AR, Burst AR or Tactical AR. We are talking about the standard AR. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Petra 222 SoM Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 34	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:45:00 - [108] - Quote oh ok, damn Aztec crushing my dreamz man.
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 677	Posted - 2015.01.20 01:18:00 - [109] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... It's the shortest range weapon, yet is shield oriented -- it's always going to struggle when you hit the barrier of armor. And that's what happens with the AR -- you run into armor tankers and die. Personally, I think it needs a bit of a DPS buff (or a perhaps +5/-5 damage profile). The only way I can really get it to work right now is to use it with a speed tanked gal assault and engage at a distance where hipfire is accurate for me and not my opponent (15-ish meter)...or just pull out the ARR with the much better armor profile and, for me, simply a better overall performer. But really, the AR is not that far off, IMO. This^^^ Got both AR and RR prof 5. Also got that useless sharpshooter 5. (Waste of points) The ARR out performs AR on a gal assault all day! The range and dmg is perfect. The Tac AR needs jesus, and the burst is probably the better rifle of the bunch for flanking engagements. "Anybody order chaos?"
Park Yoon-Hee Old-Type 3	Posted - 2015.01.20 01:41:00 - [110] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... how's about making it a hybrid weapon again why give a blaster weapon which is suppose to be good at hurtING armored and shielded people but it's bonus is toward shields it needs a armor and shield bonus and bonus toward damage up at 0-25 meters

deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 1792	Posted - 2015.01.20 02:51:00 - [111] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... Just give the militia the same stats as the Krin and then scale up like normal from there. I can assure you this will lead to use
thehellisgoingon MONSTER SYNERGY 130	Posted - 2015.01.20 02:56:00 - [112] - Quote I use AR up close with a sub machine gun to finish them off. It works great against shield. It struggles with armor. 70 in a clip is nice.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 7161	Posted - 2015.01.20 03:05:00 - [113] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... Just give the militia the same stats as the Krin and then scale up like normal from there. I can assure you this will lead to use That would be OP. That much damage and accuracy at militia level would be broken. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16702	Posted - 2015.01.20 03:10:00 - [114] - Quote More and more I am becoming confused as to the reasons we as players continue to advocated tiered weapons...... We currently have 5 Tiers of turrets favouring those who can afford and use Prototype weapons.......as opposed to unlocking side grades and variations of weapons all with roughly similar functions but unique mechanics and aspects. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 7161	Posted - 2015.01.20 03:30:00 - [115] - Quote True Adamance wrote: More and more I am becoming confused as to the reasons we as players continue to advocated tiered weapons...... We currently have 5 Tiers of turrets favouring those who can afford and use Prototype weapons.......as opposed to unlocking side grades and variations of weapons all with roughly similar functions but unique mechanics and aspects. There are two reasons for tiers: -This game is free to play - We don't have enough weapons for this game to not have tiers. Also we do not currently have the resources to make new weapons(at least not great ones) and balance them. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2320	Posted - 2015.01.20 04:09:00 - [116] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: True Adamance wrote: More and more I am becoming confused as to the reasons we as players continue to advocated tiered weapons...... We currently have 5 Tiers of turrets favouring those who can afford and use Prototype weapons.......as opposed to unlocking side grades and variations of weapons all with roughly similar functions but unique mechanics and aspects. There are two reasons for tiers: -This game is free to play - We don't have enough weapons for this game to not have tiers. Also we do not currently have the resources to make new weapons(at least not great ones) and balance them. This game has a lot of weapon variety. How many different guns do we have? 2 Heavy 5 Sidearms 3 Grenades 10 Light 20 weapons total... And that's not counting the variants, which bump that number up to 42 total different weapon variants, with all of those variants being significantly different barring the Assault SMGs/HMGs and the Tactical ScP. So 39. If we were to fill out all the missing variants and cut out the redundant ones, we would have well over 70 significantly different weapons. That's a lot. Home at Last <3
Oceltot Mortalis 51	Posted - 2015.01.20 04:47:00 - [117] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... Maybe your Range to DPS ratio underestimates the importance of range? Could also be that the Gal Assault has a... underwhelming bonus. This right here. In what universe does a military send their troops out with a weapon than tickles people past 60 meters? In life, I have this to regret. That too often, when I acquired ISK, I did not have enough of it. -everyone in EVE, ever
Oceltot Mortalis 51	Posted - 2015.01.20 05:06:00 - [118] - Quote Also I think if it's range is going to stay as short as it is, then it needs a +5/-5 profile. Effective range traded for effective application. In life, I have this to regret. That too often, when I acquired ISK, I did not have enough of it. -everyone in EVE, ever
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 7163	Posted - 2015.01.20 05:08:00 - [119] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: True Adamance wrote: More and more I am becoming confused as to the reasons we as players continue to advocated tiered weapons...... We currently have 5 Tiers of turrets favouring those who can afford and use Prototype weapons.......as opposed to unlocking side grades and variations of weapons all with roughly similar functions but unique mechanics and aspects. There are two reasons for tiers: -This game is free to play - We don't have enough weapons for this game to not have tiers. Also we do not currently have the resources to make new weapons(at least not great ones) and balance them. This game has a lot of weapon variety. How many different guns do we have? 2 Heavy 5 Sidearms 3 Grenades 10 Light 20 weapons total... And that's not counting the variants, which bump that number up to 42 total different weapon variants, with all of those variants being significantly different barring the Assault SMGs/HMGs and the Tactical ScP. So 39. If we were to fill out all the missing variants and cut out the redundant ones, we would have well over 70 significantly different weapons. That's a lot. Yeah, I guess I used the wrong wording. We have a lot of weapons NOW, but we didn't initially. It took a while to get where we are. Now it is somewhat too late since the Dev team is too small to get rid of tiers. Because when we do it will open up a box of troubles and I'm not sure Dust should do that so late in its cycle. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 14518	Posted - 2015.01.20 05:47:00 - [120] - Quote Oceltot Mortalis wrote: Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... Maybe your Range to DPS ratio underestimates the importance of range? Could also be that the Gal Assault has a... underwhelming bonus. This right here. In what universe does a military send their troops out with a weapon than tickles people past 60 meters? The Gallente of course! We use LOL speed to close the distance and then chew the enemy up. Problem is, our engineers forgot the "LOL speed" when transitioning from space combat to ground combat. Oceltot Mortalis wrote: Anyway, Gallente suits need to be faster/kin cats to high slots, and the Gallente assault bonus needs to be changed. Every suit in the game can effectively use the hip fire of a Assault rifle, and there is no reason to make it more accurate than it already is. Maybe an increase in rate of fire as the trigger is held? Nothing crazy fast as it is already pretty quick, but just something that is synergistic with the rifle. And similar to the laser rifle trigger-held-damage-scaling. Or they could make the hip fire bonus something like 50%. 25% is pathetic when you have a skill that does just that. Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! Assault Conglomerate: Because we don't shave

Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 14520	Posted - 2015.01.20 05:54:00 - [121] - Quote The current AR has just 2.2% less DPS than the pre TTK nerf Duvolle. Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! Assault Conglomerate: Because we don't shave
BIoody 619 D3ATH C4RD 32	Posted - 2015.01.20 06:29:00 - [122] - Quote I have seen what the AR does and the ACR as well and trust me I rather fight with my AR instead of the ACR. in other terms of the CR may be useful in mid range battles but with it comes to shot combat battles the AR wins. P.s the guy isn't even proficiency v or even touch the skilled book ' hes only at AR operation lvl 4 as well the CR operation and when it comes to battles with RS-90 Combat Rifle or the GEK-39 Assault Rifle you don't want to mess with him' Gellente Region = Freedom Fighters {STD} Breach Assault + Red Dot = +50 SkillPoints Over 9,999,999,999
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 1793	Posted - 2015.01.20 06:35:00 - [123] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: deezy dabest wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... Just give the militia the same stats as the Krin and then scale up like normal from there. I can assure you this will lead to use That would be OP. That much damage and accuracy at militia level would be broken. Way to go captain obvious.........
BL4CKST4R Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3530	Posted - 2015.01.20 08:20:00 - [124] - Quote AR needs more range or more dps. Gallente suits need to specialize in the usage of short range weaponry, thus their mobility should be buffed. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Radar R4D-47 0uter.Heaven 817	Posted - 2015.01.20 11:31:00 - [125] - Quote people keep bringing up the option to move kin kats to high slots but think of what this does to Minmatar players, Specifically Minmatar scouts. Balancing a game isn't looking at one particular thing its looking at everything involved. Why is the meta so skewed to armor suits over shield suits? Armor plates are more accessible to begin with for npe and you have a higher total ehp. The game so far has balanced that trade off for a slower overall movement speed. Moving kin kats to a high slot removes that balance and would then render shield suits completely defenseless against an ehp that is 2x more with a higher speed and a weapon profile meant to destroy you. Currently i believe armor tanking is more popular because our shield weapons are overpowered against them. A scrambler rifle can remove an entire Cal assaults shield tank with a single bullet then follow up with a barrage of 3-8 more to completely destroy your suit in less then 1 seconds. On top of that it can be done at ranges greater then 50 meters. No gun in the game has that kind of burst dps outside of the burst hmg. The range and ease of the scrambler is why people are gravitating more to armor then shields. Even with this shift in meta the scrambler rifle is still performing admirably against its reverse damage profile thus our imbalance. The issue i see is a nerf to the scarmbler will result in more shield tankers and thus a shift in meta and something else seeming OP. Which could quite possibly lead to a nerd to the AR. Nothing can truly be balanced in this game without something feelingly OP. There is just to many variables to take in account to completely balance this game. I've been here through nearly every meta shift. Each update changes things to achieve a "balanced" game and the closest i can say that was achieved was in "Chromosome" build where every gun felt OP. Mass drivers completely prevented players from advancing and were killed from overwatch positions by sniper rifles that could actually kill a suit in 2-3 shots because total ehp profiles where not 800+ for a basic suit and 1000+ for a proto suit. HMGs were terrifying at ranges of 20 meters and outside of that were useless. Shotguns were devastating at 5 meters but if you didn't have enough speed you would be destroyed by an AR before you could reach your target. Laser Rifles were the newest weapon to come out during that time and was admittedly by CCP to be OP. Yet they filled a niche role to cover open ground reliably. Proto tanks were terrifying as they should be it required coordination to remove one of these golaiths from the field. Dropships had just been nerfed from the previous patch as they were stupid OP but CCP overdid it and removed their effectiveness from the game and thusly chewed up by FG. Forges were stupid powerful they had a blast radius of a PLC with splash damage to match with pinpoint accuracy and velocity to match and yet our Proto Tanks could survive these monsters because they were that strong. Swarms were on an equal footing to FG but the idiocy of the swarm rounds made swarms feel redundant in the presence of a Forge Gun. Each weapon felt OP vehicles were at a golden state and infantry were diverse. Uprising comes and ruins all of that. They took all they had build and tossed it out the window changing everything and adding a massive amount of untested things. No longer was the HMG terrifying it fired pellets while the rest of the gun fired bullets. The AR was turned into a furry kitten and the TAC was made into a monster. Laser rifle turned into a water gun. Shotguns were now unreliable. From there it has been a constant struggle to add content and then balance it around all the rest of the broken content. 1 year ago we had all the content we have now as we did then and we are starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I still see more Combat Rifles Rail Rifles and Scrambler Rifles then any other gun. Someone stated earlier with all the variants we have something like 40 weapons. Yet the kill feed scrolls with 65%-70% of these 3 weapons. another 10% is the HMG So what is CCP doing wrong with the other 36 weapon choices to make us choose these 3 weapons? Wow that response to Kin kats being moved to low slots turned into a really dumb explanation of balance. TLDR- Read paragraph one and move on to next post.
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 1797	Posted - 2015.01.20 11:40:00 - [126] - Quote Radar R4D-47 wrote: TLDR- Read paragraph one and move on to next post. Holy wall of text. Good job on finding the enter key tho, that really seems to escape most wall builders.
Zindorak Nyain Chan 1660	Posted - 2015.01.20 12:16:00 - [127] - Quote Cavani1EE7 wrote: Zindorak wrote: The real question is why is the ARR better at CQC than AR facepalm Where did a fellow caldari assault touch you? In my special place it hurt rearry bad Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Give me da iskiez Gk0 Scout yay :)
Zindorak Nyain Chan 1660	Posted - 2015.01.20 12:17:00 - [128] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... Dayum Rattati 5 times?! Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Give me da iskiez Gk0 Scout yay :)
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 255	Posted - 2015.01.20 13:09:00 - [129] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: I don't understand why the assault variant (the base rifle for the gallente) does not have the highest DPS of the plasma rifles. In fact it's the complete opposite where the breach does for some reason, the breach variant should have the lowest DPS, longest firing time, probably a scope and more range. Then it would be the RR for the gallente (as originally intended) and wouldn't step on the regular AR's toes, leaving the AR more unique. It goes Tactical, burst, breach, assault. The breach is higher than the assault by about 3 dps at all tiers. I know, this is only the case for the AR and is wrong. The assault variant is supposed to have marginally greater DPS, and not just by 3 dps like the breach over the assault.
Kuruld Sengar Y.A.M.A.H 162	Posted - 2015.01.20 14:15:00 - [130] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... My personal reason for not using it is that seemingly every other rifle out-ranges it, and in the range it is most effective it seems to be out classed by other options for ease of use. There is a large distance where the combat rifle, scrambler rifle, rail rifle, and sniper rifle can all damage an assault rifle user with very little chance of significant return fire. Meanwhile the HMG seems to out damage the assault rifle for most of it's optimal range. Couple this with the armor meta, not to mention how armor users become more elusive (strafing, cover use, "head glitching") when their shields are gone (minus repped sentinels to a degree), and it becomes far more difficult to finish off an armor based suit than it would be using the combat rifle for example. Another note is that with the lower rate of fire than the assault combat rifle, strafing is more effective against the user. This is because as you fire the assault rifle, the shot density in the cone of fire is lower and therefore lowers your chances of making contact. But as to how it should be fixed? I am not sure. Others have more experience with it than me, and the feel of the weapon itself may play into this. Some of the strengths as I see them are that it can sustain fire very well, it destroys shields efficiently, ammo lasts a fair while especially on the breach, and in close quarters the hip fire can quickly take down any target.

Atiim Titans of Phoenix 15142	Posted - 2015.01.20 14:27:00 - [131] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: AR needs something, I have buffed it 5 hotfixes in a row, and nothing seems to get it going... Yes, it's almost as if people are smart enough to not use Anti-Shield weapons when most of the suits seen on the field are Armor tanked with as much HP as they can stack. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Ku Shala The Generals 1141	Posted - 2015.01.20 14:52:00 - [132] - Quote how can you balance guns that can fire faster than normal rate of fire? rof is whats wrong with all the shoot as fast as you can pull weapons macro and rapid fire, registering 1600-2400 damage in a 2 second engagement at 75 m with a cr that just unloaded a whole clip into you instantly or 8-10 scr shot in 1 second? ar dont need a buff cr and scr need a rate of fire cap or for the scr heat per bullet not over time. I cant comment on the cr but AR>Scr>RR..... and the burst AR if you aim yeah should be FOTM but not too many people using it *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (CK-0 Specialist)* Caldari Loyalist Tiger Style


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