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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 691	Posted - 2015.01.07 08:24:00 - [1] - Quote Okey it must be a way to stop this bull. The militia fits with a swarm that just sits still the whole game got to go. Had a game where a red swarm AFK isk farmer just resapawned every 30 sec or so at the exactly same spot. That's just bull s-h-i-t and got to go. I don't know what kind of scruby bull macro they are using FIX IT CCP War never changes
The Infected One Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1407	Posted - 2015.01.07 08:29:00 - [2] - Quote Respawned!? There are much easier ways to AFK than having to die, and actually be there at the controller. When I AFK, I prefer to go drive for a burger, and come back to see the end of match screen. I am here to ask you one question, and one question only: EXPLOSIONS? --. . - + ..-. ..- -.-. -.- . -..
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 692	Posted - 2015.01.07 08:41:00 - [3] - Quote The Infected One wrote: Respawned!? There are much easier ways to AFK than having to die, and actually be there at the controller. When I AFK, I prefer to go drive for a burger, and come back to see the end of match screen. The AFK isk farming got to go. If you want to eat or do something in RL then do so but staying in the game while others play it is so scruby I lak words. It was one of those swarm AFK dudes he spawned in I sniped him ( note I was on the enemy red line, and this was not a redline game ) he respawned at the exactly same spot every time. So I stoped shoting him and he just stood dead still at the same spot the rest of the game. Any way the point is AFK isk farming need to get FIXED War never changes
Buwaro Draemon WarRavens Capital Punishment. 642	Posted - 2015.01.07 08:43:00 - [4] - Quote The real question is: Why is it always the Anti-Armor starter fits that we see squatting in a corner? Changes to Damage mods!
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 692	Posted - 2015.01.07 08:44:00 - [5] - Quote Buwaro Draemon wrote: The real question is: Why is it always the Anti-Armor starter fits that we see squatting in a corner? THIS War never changes
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1941	Posted - 2015.01.07 08:53:00 - [6] - Quote Back in chrome we could gank AFKers with grenades and team kill with lavs . This sorted out the AFKers when I cam across them . But aye ccp has to do something about boosting and afking . Proud Caldari purist . Rank 10 colonel omiwarrior. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
zero shocker TRUE TEA BAGGERS 47	Posted - 2015.01.07 09:16:00 - [7] - Quote They are afking, when ure on the same team just shoot them in the face and annoy them till they response. I think they just keep tapping the triangle to keep from getting kick.
Kuruld Sengar RED 0MEN. 143	Posted - 2015.01.07 09:21:00 - [8] - Quote zero shocker wrote: They are afking, when ure on the same team just shoot them in the face and annoy them till they response. I think they just keep tapping the triangle to keep from getting kick. Sometimes I spawn in distracted, and ten seconds later look up to see one of you melee-ing me in the face -_-
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 692	Posted - 2015.01.07 09:38:00 - [9] - Quote zero shocker wrote: They are afking, when ure on the same team just shoot them in the face and annoy them till they response. I think they just keep tapping the triangle to keep from getting kick. Bro the starter swarmer AFKer are not even there. If you kill them they just respawn at exactly the same spot. Nothing you do will sort this out, it needs to get addressed buy ccp War never changes
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2944	Posted - 2015.01.07 10:25:00 - [10] - Quote Piraten Hovnoret wrote: The Infected One wrote: Respawned!? There are much easier ways to AFK than having to die, and actually be there at the controller. When I AFK, I prefer to go drive for a burger, and come back to see the end of match screen. The AFK isk farming got to go. If you want to eat or do something in RL then do so but staying in the game while others play it is so scruby I lak words. It was one of those swarm AFK dudes he spawned in I sniped him ( note I was on the enemy red line, and this was not a redline game ) he respawned at the exactly same spot every time. So I stoped shoting him and he just stood dead still at the same spot the rest of the game. Any way the point is AFK isk farming need to get FIXED And how do you propose to tackle afk farming? As far as I am aware, while people may dislike it - I dont think it is in any game rules that you cannot. That being said, CCP tried and failed in the past to remove AFK'ers. Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why hide a solution under frothy pile of derpa? MY LIFE FOR AIUR!

The Eristic Dust 90210 683	Posted - 2015.01.07 10:40:00 - [11] - Quote Buwaro Draemon wrote: The real question is: Why is it always the Anti-Armor starter fits that we see squatting in a corner? Fittings are sorted alphabetically. It's the first starter fit in the list by default. Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.

GM Archduke Game Masters C C P Alliance 867	Posted - 2015.01.07 10:48:00 - [12] - Quote Any suggestions on how this could be addressed and solved? GM Archduke CCP Customer Support \| EVE Online \| DUST 514

Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6177	Posted - 2015.01.07 11:21:00 - [13] - Quote GM Archduke wrote: Any suggestions on how this could be addressed and solved? Re-introduce grenade ganking in the redline. ONLY in the redline. Alternately after a set amount of time spent in the redline make the blue dot flip to yellow. Valid target that provides no warpoints or penalty so you can clear the slot for a useful blueberry. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 1365	Posted - 2015.01.07 11:24:00 - [14] - Quote The Eristic wrote: Buwaro Draemon wrote: The real question is: Why is it always the Anti-Armor starter fits that we see squatting in a corner? Fittings are sorted alphabetically. It's the first starter fit in the list by default. Nope, it's actually a function of the swarm launcher itself. If you press R1 and bring up the lock on reticule, then bring up the chat bar and let go of R1 it will keep the reticule on screen even after you take away the chat bar. If you have a lock reticule open on the screen it counts against the afk counter so you never have to move to defeat the mechanic. Everyone does it in the anti-armor fit because it's a completely free suit with the required elements available to everyone infinitely. Though I thought they patched this, I haven't seen nearly as much of it as of late. Lots more LAV WP boosting nowadays tbqh. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1941	Posted - 2015.01.07 11:32:00 - [15] - Quote GM Archduke wrote: Any suggestions on how this could be addressed and solved? If someone finishes a game with 0 kills 0 deaths and 0 wp then give them no sp and no isk simples . Proud Caldari purist . Rank 10 colonel omiwarrior. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
Jack Boost Zarena Family 582	Posted - 2015.01.07 11:34:00 - [16] - Quote Once per match ASURA-holo spawn and ask bluebery to stop playing. If no answer in 30 sec ->DC Propositions of questions: - What is your favorite color? - What I can make to you that you can't do to me? - What meal I can do to you after return to quarter my master? - What pill you will take? Not much time left...
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 1365	Posted - 2015.01.07 11:35:00 - [17] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: GM Archduke wrote: Any suggestions on how this could be addressed and solved? If someone finishes a game with 0 kills 0 deaths and 0 wp then give them no sp and no isk simples . Drop a decent uplink in the MCC and you're almost guaranteed points before the end of the match. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1941	Posted - 2015.01.07 11:38:00 - [18] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: pegasis prime wrote: GM Archduke wrote: Any suggestions on how this could be addressed and solved? If someone finishes a game with 0 kills 0 deaths and 0 wp then give them no sp and no isk simples . Drop a decent uplink in the MCC and you're almost guaranteed points before the end of the match. Ok step 2 remove the ability to deploy equipment in your own redline/mcc yet again simples Proud Caldari purist . Rank 10 colonel omiwarrior. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 692	Posted - 2015.01.07 11:42:00 - [19] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Piraten Hovnoret wrote: The Infected One wrote: Respawned!? There are much easier ways to AFK than having to die, and actually be there at the controller. When I AFK, I prefer to go drive for a burger, and come back to see the end of match screen. The AFK isk farming got to go. If you want to eat or do something in RL then do so but staying in the game while others play it is so scruby I lak words. It was one of those swarm AFK dudes he spawned in I sniped him ( note I was on the enemy red line, and this was not a redline game ) he respawned at the exactly same spot every time. So I stoped shoting him and he just stood dead still at the same spot the rest of the game. Any way the point is AFK isk farming need to get FIXED And how do you propose to tackle afk farming? As far as I am aware, while people may dislike it - I dont think it is in any game rules that you cannot. That being said, CCP tried and failed in the past to remove AFK'ers. Works in destiny ( game sux buy the way ) If you ruberband the controller, or does any kind of repeting bull the game recognise that there is no variations in the controler usage, so you are removed. We did put ppl on the mon in the 60th so fixing AFK in this time and age can't be impossible War never changes
Racheengel 84 BLACK-GUARD E.B.O.L.A. 9	Posted - 2015.01.07 11:46:00 - [20] - Quote GM Archduke wrote: Any suggestions on how this could be addressed and solved? look at my ticket that i have send befor two month, and you will see a solution for this problem and a good isk and meta system

Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6177	Posted - 2015.01.07 11:49:00 - [21] - Quote let us stab anyone who spends more than a minute in the redline. It takes less than a minute for even a full brick amarr fatty to waddle out on foot. If they hop in and out of the redline more than three times in a single spawn, let us gut them. (exclude vehicles from this) Re-introduce grenade ganking in the redline. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 692	Posted - 2015.01.07 11:55:00 - [22] - Quote GM Archduke wrote: Any suggestions on how this could be addressed and solved? Did not c your post before. A skript that notice if there is no variations in the controler/keyboard usage maybee. One other more creative sandbox thing Is that if you are on the bottom 3 on the scoreboard let's say 1 quarter into the match you are kicked from game. That can be implemented with some kind of voting system: let's say if you are bottom 3 and ( a Nr ) vote for you to be removed you are kicked with no isk payout. What parameters to get set for voting can be under debate Regards War never changes
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6177	Posted - 2015.01.07 12:05:00 - [23] - Quote Piraten Hovnoret wrote: GM Archduke wrote: Any suggestions on how this could be addressed and solved? Did not c your post before. A skript that notice if there is no variations in the controler/keyboard usage maybee. One other more creative sandbox thing Is that if you are on the bottom 3 on the scoreboard let's say 1 quarter into the match you are kicked from game. That can be implemented with some kind of voting system: let's say if you are bottom 3 and ( a Nr ) vote for you to be removed you are kicked with no isk payout. What parameters to get set for voting can be under debate Regards votekicks are the most easily abused mechanic ever. If they're AFK, let up puta bolt pistol in the back of their head, and the AFK timer will throw them out of match after failing to respawn after a set time. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 692	Posted - 2015.01.07 12:39:00 - [24] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Piraten Hovnoret wrote: GM Archduke wrote: Any suggestions on how this could be addressed and solved? Did not c your post before. A skript that notice if there is no variations in the controler/keyboard usage maybee. One other more creative sandbox thing Is that if you are on the bottom 3 on the scoreboard let's say 1 quarter into the match you are kicked from game. That can be implemented with some kind of voting system: let's say if you are bottom 3 and ( a Nr ) vote for you to be removed you are kicked with no isk payout. What parameters to get set for voting can be under debate Regards votekicks are the most easily abused mechanic ever. If they're AFK, let up puta bolt pistol in the back of their head, and the AFK timer will throw them out of match after failing to respawn after a set time. It does not matter if you kill them, they have some weird respawning skrit going on. They jus come back at he same spot at the exactly same time . Idk about abuse If the parameters for getting up for vote is set smart it will be hard to abuse Let's say like this ( al the conditions must be set get upp for vote ) 1: you must be bottom 3 on the scoreboard 2: you must have less than 300wp 3: 6 ppl must vote you out 4: voting starts halfway into the game ( or a set timer 5-10 min) Also when the team disides to kick a player the team don't get a new player in they have to keep on going with one man less ( or 2 or 3 ) me on a personal lvl rather play one man short than have a AFK scrub getting payed for my job The numbers can be whatever I am just throwing them out Regards A more easy sugestion is at the end of the match the bottom 3 ( if less than 300wp) don't get payed ( with a voting system or just automatic idk ) War never changes
Zindorak Nyain Chan General Tso's Alliance 1587	Posted - 2015.01.07 13:06:00 - [25] - Quote idc much about isk farming. I don't see any problem with it Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Give me da iskiez Gk0 Scout yay :)
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 692	Posted - 2015.01.07 13:28:00 - [26] - Quote Zindorak wrote: idc much about isk farming. I don't see any problem with it Well it's sopose to be 16vs16 so if 1-3 players are siting and isk farming in the redline I have a problem with it. It's not the isk it self it's the bloody fact that they don't play the game thats the problem. Edit: I c it in 90% of the games. ( I dont play Ambush ) Regards War never changes
Kaze Eyrou Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1572	Posted - 2015.01.07 13:39:00 - [27] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: GM Archduke wrote: Any suggestions on how this could be addressed and solved? If someone finishes a game with 0 kills 0 deaths and 0 wp then give them no sp and no isk simples . So.... play until I die... And then spawn in the MCC with a Swarm Launcher, press fire, press select and troll Alliance chat. Circumvented. Try again. EDIT: I also want to point out that I went 0 kills, 0 deaths, and 0 WP during an entire match EVEN THOUGH I PLAYED THE ENTIRE MATCH. Was using a special hardened Gorgon to absorb enemy fire while placing uplinks in strategic locations. Proto Uplinks 5 while using an Amarr Logistics skill 5 Protosuit made for 3 and 4 second uplinks. Not. A. Single. War Point. Now I'm regretting not taking a picture of that. CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou Kaze's Helpful Links
Kaze Eyrou Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1572	Posted - 2015.01.07 13:46:00 - [28] - Quote GM Archduke wrote: Any suggestions on how this could be addressed and solved? Glad to see you asking the community for suggestions. I also want to see more players involved with the match rather than sitting the MCC doing nothing. If I come up with any ideas, I'll post them on this thread. CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou Kaze's Helpful Links
Kaze Eyrou Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1572	Posted - 2015.01.07 13:59:00 - [29] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: GM Archduke wrote: Any suggestions on how this could be addressed and solved? Re-introduce grenade ganking in the redline. ONLY in the redline. Alternately after a set amount of time spent in the redline make the blue dot flip to yellow. Valid target that provides no warpoints or penalty so you can clear the slot for a useful blueberry. So one sided matches become even more one sided. In FW, when we capture all the objectives and start pushing them into their redline, 9 times out of 10 they start killing each other. What I see when we implement this "solution": Once a team captures all the objectives, the blues will turn into yellows and will start killing each other in their redline. And then we'll see newberries in the forums wondering why their own team is killing them in the redline. BAD IDEA IS BAD. CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou Kaze's Helpful Links
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 6227	Posted - 2015.01.07 14:04:00 - [30] - Quote GM Archduke wrote: Any suggestions on how this could be addressed and solved? A system to report AFK players. X players report the merc Y times and he gets notified that this behavior is not acceptable. This is important. The system needs some kind of warning. If the behavior continues then actions up to being suspended for a period of time can occur. Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley

Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 692	Posted - 2015.01.07 14:27:00 - [31] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: pegasis prime wrote: GM Archduke wrote: Any suggestions on how this could be addressed and solved? If someone finishes a game with 0 kills 0 deaths and 0 wp then give them no sp and no isk simples . So.... play until I die... And then spawn in the MCC with a Swarm Launcher, press fire, press select and troll Alliance chat. Circumvented. Try again. EDIT: I also want to point out that I went 0 kills, 0 deaths, and 0 WP during an entire match EVEN THOUGH I PLAYED THE ENTIRE MATCH. Was using a special hardened Gorgon to absorb enemy fire while placing uplinks in strategic locations. Proto Uplinks 5 while using an Amarr Logistics skill 5 Protosuit made for 3 and 4 second uplinks. Not. A. Single. War Point. Now I'm regretting not taking a picture of that. Not one spawn ? LOL who are you kidding Even if this is the case it's not that big of a deal, you lost nothing. Any system you put in place will have a flaw somewhere however the question is the current flaw worse with ppl sitting in the mcc the hole game or the extremly few times that you just described. I take the later War never changes
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5632	Posted - 2015.01.07 14:36:00 - [32] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: GM Archduke wrote: Any suggestions on how this could be addressed and solved? If someone finishes a game with 0 kills 0 deaths and 0 wp then give them no sp and no isk simples . This is the easiest and most simple solution. Scaled up from there. No sense in giving a guy with 25 WP very much either. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 6240	Posted - 2015.01.07 14:41:00 - [33] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: pegasis prime wrote: If someone finishes a game with 0 kills 0 deaths and 0 wp then give them no sp and no isk simples . This is the easiest and most simple solution. Scaled up from there. No sense in giving a guy with 25 WP very much either. We have a poor enough new player experience, without removing rewards for players fresh out of the academy who can only earn 100 or so WPs per match at first. This is a terrible idea and should never be implemented if CCP ever wants new players to continue to play Dust 514 past their first public contract. Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5050	Posted - 2015.01.07 14:56:00 - [34] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: pegasis prime wrote: If someone finishes a game with 0 kills 0 deaths and 0 wp then give them no sp and no isk simples . This is the easiest and most simple solution. Scaled up from there. No sense in giving a guy with 25 WP very much either. We have a poor enough new player experience, without removing rewards for players fresh out of the academy who can only earn 100 or so WPs per match at first. This is a terrible idea and should never be implemented if CCP ever wants new players to continue to play Dust 514 past their first public contract. This. You're getting bitter, Odinson. Won't someone please think of the children? However... A pure 0/0/0 I could probably get on board with. Yes, the AFKers who don't care about dying will just suicide once and keep going, but it at least makes them do something other than set up a simple keyboard macro. And any n00b can at least manage to hack an installation or die once. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 692	Posted - 2015.01.07 15:02:00 - [35] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: pegasis prime wrote: If someone finishes a game with 0 kills 0 deaths and 0 wp then give them no sp and no isk simples . This is the easiest and most simple solution. Scaled up from there. No sense in giving a guy with 25 WP very much either. We have a poor enough new player experience, without removing rewards for players fresh out of the academy who can only earn 100 or so WPs per match at first. This is a terrible idea and should never be implemented if CCP ever wants new players to continue to play Dust 514 past their first public contract. Dude 0-0-0 is not a new player experience game. Even when I started out this game ( not a beta vet ) I knew how to make points. I went like 2-13-100 my first games then after just a day I knew how to wp farm, I have no problem with new players doing just as bad. But 0-0-0 that's not even trying, new players don't go 0-0-0 that's veterans farming isk nothing more nothing less. War never changes
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5050	Posted - 2015.01.07 15:03:00 - [36] - Quote Oh, and the OP mentioned Destiny. There's an obvious incentive to AFK in Dust but I'm having trouble thinking of a scenario in which I would wish to do so in Destiny. Glimmer is nearly worthless compared to how easy it is to get during normal play after about level 10, no completely safe haven in PvP I know of(admittedly I don't do it much), and there's no passive exp, so....? (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Nonoriri ko Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 31	Posted - 2015.01.07 15:11:00 - [37] - Quote Simple, make a square or rectangle area on each teams side that disables wp gain. Blue cannot gain wp on blue side, they only gain wp on red side. Red only gains wp on blue side, not on red side. Then between these two magical boxes is the center of map where everything goes. Both teams get wp here. Some kind of marker would be nice, but not graphical onscreen. Something like on top right of screen like an OB message. Like, "No WP gain" flashing top right until you move to an area you can.
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 692	Posted - 2015.01.07 15:11:00 - [38] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Oh, and the OP mentioned Destiny. There's an obvious incentive to AFK in Dust but I'm having trouble thinking of a scenario in which I would wish to do so in Destiny. Glimmer is nearly useless compared to how easy it is to get, no completely safe haven in PvP I know of(admittedly I don't do it much), and there's no passive exp, so....? Told you destiny sux. However if you ruberband the controler ( in the raid mode ) you get kicked ( orbit ) We have tryed it, it's like you say hard to find a point to ruberband in that game however the feature is there never the less. Oh found it out when we knocked Athion of with nades ( 2 guys nades rest jumped to the death ) When you ruberbanded the controler the game returned you to orbit. Again destiny is crap War never changes

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 14284	Posted - 2015.01.07 15:14:00 - [39] - Quote there must be a good formula in the vein of (isk killed + abs(isk lost)) times pool available times wp/total team wp times win bonus multiplier that would make you less scared of earning more WP through losses "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

DAMIOS82 WarRavens Capital Punishment. 148	Posted - 2015.01.07 15:16:00 - [40] - Quote I believe the best way to handle farmers is a FieldCommander, Instead of just only having squad commanders, you basicly get a one ring to rule them all type of character. This commander gets extra abbilty's to effect the war. So while everybody can call in an OB, the FC can also call in other types like carpet bombing, etc, Turrets, depots, etc. But in the case of Farming they also get an option to remove them. So first the FC select the character and presses the button/option and a warning is send to the farmer, then a countdown is started. 60 sec. After those 60 sec, the FC presses the option again, countdown starts again 60 sec. Then the FC gets an option Force removall and the farmer is removed. Or one could do a 1 time 2 min countdown, same system. Now to make sure there is no abuse of the system. The squad commanders need to vote on it, To give the FC that power. Just a simple button/option, majority rules. So if there are 6 squads, you need a minimum of 3 votes. If there is only 1 squad and the rest is playing solo, then the FC needs only that 1 vote. This way the Farmer has 2 min to start playing when caught, then the FC can remove them. Now offcourse one could say ok what's to stop the removall when a farmer has started playing, well they get a counter action, during those 120 sec, Which forces the hole process to start over. One could also add additional warning signs on screen to alert the players to the actions beeing taken. This way it's fair for all and hard to abuse. farmers that don't pay attention are removed from the game without pay. But it also leaves enough time for someone to respond, who just went for a bathroom break, or snacks, etc. Not to mention having a FC on the field leaves enough room for many more fun stuff to be added into the game and anybody get take it's position.

Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 6243	Posted - 2015.01.07 15:19:00 - [41] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: (isk killed + abs(isk lost)) times pool available times wp/total team wp times win bonus multiplier What is 'abs' in this formula? CCP Rattati wrote: that would make you less scared of earning more WP through losses Pardon? Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I am having trouble understanding what you mean by this. Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 9142	Posted - 2015.01.07 15:22:00 - [42] - Quote Ahh FC roles, if only people played this game like a team based game and not like Call of Duty or King of the Hill. That's why I strongly prefer PC and FW, pubbers are just too unorganized. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 693	Posted - 2015.01.07 15:31:00 - [43] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: there must be a good formula in the vein of (isk killed + abs(isk lost)) times pool available times wp/total team wp times win bonus multiplier that would make you less scared of earning more WP through losses There is some good suggestions in the forums and in this thread. I don't know your game programming, but I belive a realy low wp cap to get payed is the most simple way ( and resorse friendly ) to resolve the issue. If you don't make let's say 100wp then no payout. I can't in my wildest dreams belive that a new player joins this game to sit in the mcc. It's veterans that do this. Best regards War never changes

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 14289	Posted - 2015.01.07 15:49:00 - [44] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: (isk killed + abs(isk lost)) times pool available times wp/total team wp times win bonus multiplier What is 'abs' in this formula? CCP Rattati wrote: that would make you less scared of earning more WP through losses Pardon? Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I am having trouble understanding what you mean by this. abs means negative is turned to positive. what I mean is that even if I go proto and lose a shitload of isk, if it makes my team win and I earn a lot of wp, I will still get a lot of isk back, instead of the 2-300k i get now. SirManBoy on the CPM is my counterpart in this "Win by any means necessary" initiative "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5055	Posted - 2015.01.07 15:50:00 - [45] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: there must be a good formula in the vein of (isk killed + abs(isk lost)) times pool available times wp/total team wp times win bonus multiplier that would make you less scared of earning more WP through losses This type of approach would obviously be the best solution if done properly. The carrot is a better option than the stick in a game you want people to enjoy playing. Better, and more importantly, better scaling of rewards would get rid of the incentive to AFK in the first place. More importantly though, it could simultaneously make battles more competitive as people who aren't PC-rich have no other choice but to be risk-averse in a lot of situations. Back when I did a lot of pubs and ended up on the wrong side of the usual "me and a bunch of randos vs 2 squads of elite corp x" scenario, I am absolutely not ashamed of the fact that I would not uncommonly pack it in halfway through the match and start sniping the protos because it would frankly have been stupid not to considering how poor I was at the time. I'm not going broke getting spawnkilled while trying to prop up some team of idiots. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 6243	Posted - 2015.01.07 15:53:00 - [46] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: what I mean is that even if I go proto and lose a shitload of isk, if it makes my team win and I earn a lot of wp, I will still get a lot of isk back, instead of the 2-300k i get now. SirManBoy on the CPM is my counterpart in this "Win by any means necessary" initiative Won't this basically cause someone to run proto every. single. match. since they will recoup their losses by running proto? This feels like a "run proto or you aren't in any way competitive" initiative. Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley
ishtellian SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 86	Posted - 2015.01.07 15:56:00 - [47] - Quote Gotta be careful with how we combat this, not every game but every once in a while I go to the red line to change a vehicle fit or go to the market ( you need to be spawned to change vehicle fits for some reason ) I don't usually take more than a minute but if the timer is a minute i'd be screwed. Like others have said, vote kicking can easily be abused. Killing them really wont solve anything, there suits aren't worth isk so there not losing anything but KDR which i don't even really care about. I think it would need to be more complicated detection system, i admit ive sorta afkd before but really all it was is i start a game and just sorta shoot my gun, reload, throw a grenade or jump around every minute or so. Its not true afk but it has the same effect so the system would need to be smart. It cant be based off of WP or KDR imo because sometimes i get thrown into a game half way in were my team is getting destroyed and so am I and i cant really do much, this even happens some full games. ( I guess im just a trash player ) Maybe have it based on more accurately what your doing, lets say you need to generate X amount of action points which is just like a invisible system, you would need to say earn `1000 before the end of the 4 minute mark, you can only earn X amount from walking/running, X amount from shooting etc etc Maybe something like this and it checks every few minutes for a reasonable mixture of all actions, if you start to come short you get a timer and an idea of what you can do to get points. Its hard to have a perfect system in a game such as Dust, maybe at the end of the mach give no rewards as a base, and your rewards are determined by your actions, and as you do more you get multipliers to increase how much you get, say at 200 WP you get 50k isk and WP's after that have a 1.2x multiplier up to maybe a x2.5 multiplier or somethings, this could also be a way to increase isk from public contracts. My Heavy Never Dies. Logibro In training.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 747	Posted - 2015.01.07 15:59:00 - [48] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: there must be a good formula in the vein of (isk killed + abs(isk lost)) times pool available times wp/total team wp times win bonus multiplier that would make you less scared of earning more WP through losses The AFK farming works like this: -get a rapid fire modded controller -assign the rapid fire function to triangle (crouching+respawning) -put ducktape on the triangle button but before that join ambush People make alts with just this purpose in mind. They dont care about K/D or W/L on their stats cause at the end of the day that ISK will be send to the main char which got passive SP assigned. People do it as a passive activity cause it requires 0 player input. You could say this is similar like mining on eve with a bot. Look at the screen every now and then and return watching TV instead. All that while your ISK goes up. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5632	Posted - 2015.01.07 16:01:00 - [49] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Ahh FC roles, if only people played this game like a team based game and not like Call of Duty or King of the Hill. That's why I strongly prefer PC and FW, pubbers are just too unorganized. People don't play it that way because the game itself doesn't reward it. It took a long time, but the rewards have slowly eroded the desire for people to: 1) Be in a corp and pay tax, 2) squad up, 3) try or care about winning. If you couple that with the extremely powerful scouts for however long from 1.8 to 1.10 that rewarded solo gameplay and you have a situation where matches are overwhelmingly made up of solo players. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 14290	Posted - 2015.01.07 16:01:00 - [50] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: what I mean is that even if I go proto and lose a shitload of isk, if it makes my team win and I earn a lot of wp, I will still get a lot of isk back, instead of the 2-300k i get now. SirManBoy on the CPM is my counterpart in this "Win by any means necessary" initiative Won't this basically cause someone to run proto every. single. match. since they will recoup their losses by running proto? This feels like a "run proto or you aren't in any way competitive" initiative. trick is to figure out a better way, but you have to explain why proto running equals win in this case. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 6243	Posted - 2015.01.07 16:06:00 - [51] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Trick is to figure out a better way, but you have to explain why proto running equals win in this case. Proto doesn't necessarily mean a win, but because winning ensures you get your ISK back why would you run anything less than proto gear? I'm just afraid that removing the cost of proto gear for winners will mean anyone who can't fit proto gear will be viewed as an idiot. Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley
five times Liverpool F.C. 56	Posted - 2015.01.07 16:06:00 - [52] - Quote You have already got daily mission reward for distance covered, so using that's how about if you have 0 deaths and 0 kills and 0 distance covered you penalised. This protects those who die from spawn campers.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5056	Posted - 2015.01.07 16:07:00 - [53] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: what I mean is that even if I go proto and lose a shitload of isk, if it makes my team win and I earn a lot of wp, I will still get a lot of isk back, instead of the 2-300k i get now. SirManBoy on the CPM is my counterpart in this "Win by any means necessary" initiative Won't this basically cause someone to run proto every. single. match. since they will recoup their losses by running proto? This feels like a "run proto or you aren't in any way competitive" initiative. Not necessarily, because there would (I assume) still be a limit to the amount of ISK to give out. Also, since it would be tied to ISK destroyed, if you're just stomping starter fits there won't be much in that pool. I suppose it should be weighted more towards ISK destroyed, maybe put a multiplier of 0.75 or whatever on the ISK lost variable. Actually, now that I think about it, what would probably work out better is just to put a cap on how high the (ISK lost) value can be in the equation. I couldn't even venture a guess as to what the value should be. Whatever it is, though, by setting a limit you would keep the risk of running very expensive gear intact as after a certain point you won't be increasing the potential reward. On the other hand, players using cheap gear could then still not worry as much about getting killed because they would still be rewarded more for trying to win. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 6244	Posted - 2015.01.07 16:13:00 - [54] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Not necessarily, because there would (I assume) still be a limit to the amount of ISK to give out. Also, since it would be tied to ISK destroyed, if you're just stomping starter fits there won't be much in that pool. I suppose it should be weighted more towards ISK destroyed, maybe put a multiplier of 0.75 or whatever on the ISK lost variable. I like the idea of the (ISK lost) being reduced in value. 0.75 is fair, but 0.6 feels more appropriate. Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley
Ryme Intrinseca Dead Man's Game RUST415 2216	Posted - 2015.01.07 16:17:00 - [55] - Quote By this stage we have to assume AFK is a design decision. Just one of many reasons im standing in a queue to trade in my ps3 right now...
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5632	Posted - 2015.01.07 16:19:00 - [56] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: what I mean is that even if I go proto and lose a shitload of isk, if it makes my team win and I earn a lot of wp, I will still get a lot of isk back, instead of the 2-300k i get now. SirManBoy on the CPM is my counterpart in this "Win by any means necessary" initiative Won't this basically cause someone to run proto every. single. match. since they will recoup their losses by running proto? This feels like a "run proto or you aren't in any way competitive" initiative. trick is to figure out a better way, but you have to explain why proto running equals win in this case. I don't believe that it does. I know I find myself switching to proto after it's clear that there are many on my team outside of my squad that aren't contributing much. I don't start out in proto, but I like to win. If that means dumping some ISK on a match to have fun in my Dust session, so be it. I think the MU system many times puts a veteran squad with quite a few "low MU" players. There are many times that it feels like it's 16 vs 6. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5057	Posted - 2015.01.07 16:19:00 - [57] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Not necessarily, because there would (I assume) still be a limit to the amount of ISK to give out. Also, since it would be tied to ISK destroyed, if you're just stomping starter fits there won't be much in that pool. I suppose it should be weighted more towards ISK destroyed, maybe put a multiplier of 0.75 or whatever on the ISK lost variable. I like the idea of the (ISK lost) being reduced in value. 0.75 is fair, but 0.6 feels more appropriate. Go for it. Number: 0.75 Source: My hindquarters. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5632	Posted - 2015.01.07 16:26:00 - [58] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Not necessarily, because there would (I assume) still be a limit to the amount of ISK to give out. Also, since it would be tied to ISK destroyed, if you're just stomping starter fits there won't be much in that pool. I suppose it should be weighted more towards ISK destroyed, maybe put a multiplier of 0.75 or whatever on the ISK lost variable. I like the idea of the (ISK lost) being reduced in value. 0.75 is fair, but 0.6 feels more appropriate. I don't like it being weighted in that direction because it would seem to me that it would only exacerbate the problem of people fighting in cheap gear all the time. In other words I think many players would use cheap suits to intentionally keep the ISK pool low. I don't want to see 100% proto on the field, but it's not currently feasible for many people to profit in a domination or a skirmish using ADV suits. I recently fitted up a ADV Cal Assault with all ADV modules and it still came to a 40K ISK suit. You lose 6 suits and you've lost ISK in most cases. It's not a popular viewpoint for whatever reason, but I believe that the issue in pubs is that so few are willing to use better gear. If they see FA or Red Star or whomever on the other side they automatically say "BPO fits" instead of stepping up the gear to combat the higher skilled players with ADV or better gear. If the answer to combating higher skilled players in higher level gear remains "run your cheap suits", then the cycle just continues. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 113	Posted - 2015.01.07 16:26:00 - [59] - Quote I would be very much opposed to any kind of voting system for kicking a player - I've stopped being a sniper in FW most of the time because people on my own team come up behind me and kill me (and sometimes then message me complaining about me sniping). In pubs, the worst I put up with is someone coming up and standing in front of me or meleeing the back of my head til I move. If people could kick team mates, I'd be worried it could be abused to kick players people don't want on their side, rather than only players who are AFK.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5632	Posted - 2015.01.07 16:32:00 - [60] - Quote Raptor Princess wrote: I would be very much opposed to any kind of voting system for kicking a player - I've stopped being a sniper in FW most of the time because people on my own team come up behind me and kill me (and sometimes then message me complaining about me sniping). In pubs, the worst I put up with is someone coming up and standing in front of me or meleeing the back of my head til I move. If people could kick team mates, I'd be worried it could be abused to kick players people don't want on their side, rather than only players who are AFK. I think this is a bad idea as well. I'm not a fan of snipers at all, 99% of them could be considered AFK by most definitions, but that's an issue for another thread. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.

altair Dovahkiin Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2015.01.07 16:34:00 - [61] - Quote abs means negative is turned to positive. what I mean is that even if I go proto and lose a shitload of isk, if it makes my team win and I earn a lot of wp, I will still get a lot of isk back, instead of the 2-300k i get now. SirManBoy on the CPM is my counterpart in this "Win by any means necessary" initiative[/quote] 7. Use of profanity is prohibited. The use of profanity is prohibited on the DUST 514 forums. This includes the partial masking of letters using numbers or alternate symbols, and any attempts at bypassing the profanity filter. so is that bending the rules or braking it. Bravery doesn't mean you aren't scared. It means you go anyway
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 6246	Posted - 2015.01.07 16:36:00 - [62] - Quote Raptor Princess wrote: If people could kick team mates, I'd be worried it could be abused to kick players people don't want on their side, rather than only players who are AFK. After someone is reported enough times, by enough players, a back-end system reviews the matches they attended. If the system sees multiple kills and deaths, war points gained, meters moved around the battlefield, kill assists, etc. then the player is not penalized. Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5634	Posted - 2015.01.07 16:43:00 - [63] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Raptor Princess wrote: If people could kick team mates, I'd be worried it could be abused to kick players people don't want on their side, rather than only players who are AFK. After someone is reported enough times, by enough players, a back-end system reviews the matches they attended. If the system sees multiple kills and deaths, war points gained, meters moved around the battlefield, kill assists, etc. then the player is not penalized. Create a system where it grades on a curve. If you've gotten 10 positive ranks and 1 crappy one, the crappy one would be thrown out. I'm not a mathematical genius, but this would be a caveman's (me) way of describing it. Although I think proper incentives would make AFK and non contributors more of an outlier than they currently are. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 113	Posted - 2015.01.07 16:45:00 - [64] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Raptor Princess wrote: If people could kick team mates, I'd be worried it could be abused to kick players people don't want on their side, rather than only players who are AFK. After someone is reported enough times, by enough players, a back-end system reviews the matches they attended. If the system sees multiple kills and deaths, war points gained, meters moved around the battlefield, kill assists, etc. then the player is not penalized. If a computer type thing was checking before players were kicked, that's fine. If players were kicked purely because of other players, that's not ok.
Celus Ivara DUST University Ivy League 262	Posted - 2015.01.07 16:48:00 - [65] - Quote A change to reward mechanics making it not worth it to AFK is definitely the best solution. I will say though, that if we can't find a solution there that doesn't also hinder legitimate players, then we can still get a pretty good result from simply tuning our existing AFK detection algorithm. Reticle/chat glitch counts as input. - Fix glitch. Rubber-banded aim stick counts as input. - Add filter for only input being one continuously held direction. Mod controller repeatedly pressing a single input - Add filter for repetition of a single input. Each filter we add will lessen the frequency of the problem. ...Though eventually we'll run into the issue of people with keyboards putting in macros, which will be far harder to trivially solve. :\
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 694	Posted - 2015.01.07 17:15:00 - [66] - Quote serius that negative go positive is not he way to go in pub, if anything ad isk payout in FW buy that formula. It does not address the problem with AFK abusse I still state a realy low wp cap to get payed is the easiest and fastest way to go. A 50-200wp cap to get any isk resolves it. Agsain the ppl doing this are NOT the new players it's scruby veterans. A low cap like that does actully incurige game play also the 0-0-0 afkers don't want to play at al. It's a alt with the sole intent to isk farm if they have to move/drop links/etc to get a payout they won't even try. As it is now it's just to easy to AFK farm no solution vill resolve it 100% but if you make it HARDER less will do it. Quite simple realy Let's be honest 50-200 wp is not hard to get even as a new player, and don't say a new player comes to the game to sit in the mcc farming Isk. Sorry 4 my bad English Oh and it's awsome that we at least have started to talk about this issue regardless of outcome., Best regards War never changes
Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 115	Posted - 2015.01.07 17:31:00 - [67] - Quote Piraten Hovnoret wrote: serius that negative go positive is not he way to go in pub, if anything ad isk payout in FW buy that formula. It does not address the problem with AFK abusse I still state a realy low wp cap to get payed is the easiest and fastest way to go. A 50-200wp cap to get any isk resolves it. Agsain the ppl doing this are NOT the new players it's scruby veterans. A low cap like that does actully incurige game play also the 0-0-0 afkers don't want to play at al. It's a alt with the sole intent to isk farm if they have to move/drop links/etc to get a payout they won't even try. As it is now it's just to easy to AFK farm no solution vill resolve it 100% but if you make it HARDER less will do it. Quite simple realy Let's be honest 50-200 wp is not hard to get even as a new player, and don't say a new player comes to the game to sit in the mcc farming Isk. Sorry 4 my bad English Oh and it's awsome that we at least have started to talk about this issue regardless of outcome., Best regards I've been playing for something like 7 months now. When I started, I aimed to get 100WP per match and felt awesome when I did. Ok, so maybe that's cause I'd never really played a fps before and didn't understand uplinks (and only used starter fits for about a month) but I can't be alone in that. Putting a WP cap will impact on the NPE for some people at least.
matsumoto yuichi san The Elite Few Inc. The Methodical Alliance 96	Posted - 2015.01.07 17:35:00 - [68] - Quote if anyone is wondering why the anti armor fit i bet it is because they can hold the trigger down but never fire, and it is free. :)
Flint Beastgood III Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1200	Posted - 2015.01.07 17:37:00 - [69] - Quote You know what grinds my gears more? Those "leones" corp douches (and many others) who boost (one on each team), not helping either team AND STILL GET THE TOP ISK PAYOUTS/WP/SP, while the players who actually contributed are overshadowed. DAFUQ?! Hurry up and include a vote-to-kick feature already!!! Skills - https://www.facebook.com/notes/flint-beastgood-iii/list-of-trained-skills/416505058477164
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5635	Posted - 2015.01.07 17:44:00 - [70] - Quote Raptor Princess wrote: Piraten Hovnoret wrote: serius that negative go positive is not he way to go in pub, if anything ad isk payout in FW buy that formula. It does not address the problem with AFK abusse I still state a realy low wp cap to get payed is the easiest and fastest way to go. A 50-200wp cap to get any isk resolves it. Agsain the ppl doing this are NOT the new players it's scruby veterans. A low cap like that does actully incurige game play also the 0-0-0 afkers don't want to play at al. It's a alt with the sole intent to isk farm if they have to move/drop links/etc to get a payout they won't even try. As it is now it's just to easy to AFK farm no solution vill resolve it 100% but if you make it HARDER less will do it. Quite simple realy Let's be honest 50-200 wp is not hard to get even as a new player, and don't say a new player comes to the game to sit in the mcc farming Isk. Sorry 4 my bad English Oh and it's awsome that we at least have started to talk about this issue regardless of outcome., Best regards I've been playing for something like 7 months now. When I started, I aimed to get 100WP per match and felt awesome when I did. Ok, so maybe that's cause I'd never really played a fps before and didn't understand uplinks (and only used starter fits for about a month) but I can't be alone in that. Putting a WP cap will impact on the NPE for some people at least. Getting negative feedback like no ISK or SP would at least provide some idea to a new player that they are doing it wrong. To be honest this would be perfect for snipers. Sniping itself is a situational thing in most matches. I firmly believe new players should not feel as though sniping is a good entry level role. If a new player started out sniping and getting 25 to 200 WP continually they'd have to figure out that the good stuff (high payouts and SP) is where the action is. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.

Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 5383	Posted - 2015.01.07 17:47:00 - [71] - Quote Other than a few a great suggestions that I've read, an actual way (albeit pretty bad) of managing players is having a limited amount of clone reserves per spawn location. MCC will start with 50, CRU with 35, etc. They auto-refill every x minutes to make sure they don't end up useless OR require a jump start to create clones (by re-hacking the location. Hacking is done 2x normal speed). Remove all ground spawn locations and place a CRU. This way, the teams have to actively manage their own reserves and perhaps prevent farming.
XxBlazikenxX Y.A.M.A.H 19	Posted - 2015.01.07 18:03:00 - [72] - Quote I know this is probably a bad idea, but what about making it so you only get isk if you win and if you lose you do not get isk so people have an incentive to try, you implemented this in FW so why not in publics? I can already here the haters typing their hate mail but before you do just know that I do not totally agree with my own idea. A proud member of Y.A.M.A.H Recruitment I don't back down from anyone
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1849	Posted - 2015.01.07 18:13:00 - [73] - Quote altair Dovahkiin wrote: abs means negative is turned to positive. what I mean is that even if I go proto and lose a shitload of isk, if it makes my team win and I earn a lot of wp, I will still get a lot of isk back, instead of the 2-300k i get now. SirManBoy on the CPM is my counterpart in this "Win by any means necessary" initiative 7. Use of profanity is prohibited. The use of profanity is prohibited on the DUST 514 forums. This includes the partial masking of letters using numbers or alternate symbols, and any attempts at bypassing the profanity filter. so is that bending the rules or braking it.[/quote] I've always liked Riots policy on the league of legends general discussion forums. You can say something is ***** amazing as much as you want, you can't call someone *** dumb. So if one of us had a really great idea and rattati was like "whoa, that's *** genius" that would be totally okay. In general rules about profanity are there mostly about flaming. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
Varoth Drac Titans of Phoenix 548	Posted - 2015.01.07 18:23:00 - [74] - Quote In many ways I like the idea of making proto profitable. However you would have to have a way for low sp players to play matches that aren't full of players in proto gear. Realy FW and PC should be the go-to places for proto use and vets. Trouble is, when I log on it's just so much easier to do a pub match.
Orber Gen Academy Inferno E-R-A 269	Posted - 2015.01.07 18:27:00 - [75] - Quote Piraten Hovnoret wrote: Any way the point is AFK isk farming need to get FIXED Relax. This game has AFK since day one If they wan't to fix it, they should fix the game first
Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 118	Posted - 2015.01.07 18:39:00 - [76] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Raptor Princess wrote: Piraten Hovnoret wrote: serius that negative go positive is not he way to go in pub, if anything ad isk payout in FW buy that formula. It does not address the problem with AFK abusse I still state a realy low wp cap to get payed is the easiest and fastest way to go. A 50-200wp cap to get any isk resolves it. Agsain the ppl doing this are NOT the new players it's scruby veterans. A low cap like that does actully incurige game play also the 0-0-0 afkers don't want to play at al. It's a alt with the sole intent to isk farm if they have to move/drop links/etc to get a payout they won't even try. As it is now it's just to easy to AFK farm no solution vill resolve it 100% but if you make it HARDER less will do it. Quite simple realy Let's be honest 50-200 wp is not hard to get even as a new player, and don't say a new player comes to the game to sit in the mcc farming Isk. Sorry 4 my bad English Oh and it's awsome that we at least have started to talk about this issue regardless of outcome., Best regards I've been playing for something like 7 months now. When I started, I aimed to get 100WP per match and felt awesome when I did. Ok, so maybe that's cause I'd never really played a fps before and didn't understand uplinks (and only used starter fits for about a month) but I can't be alone in that. Putting a WP cap will impact on the NPE for some people at least. Getting negative feedback like no ISK or SP would at least provide some idea to a new player that they are doing it wrong. To be honest this would be perfect for snipers. Sniping itself is a situational thing in most matches. I firmly believe new players should not feel as though sniping is a good entry level role. If a new player started out sniping and getting 25 to 200 WP continually they'd have to figure out that the good stuff (high payouts and SP) is where the action is. Getting no ISK or SP would put a lot of people off playing. If you try, and put in time/effort, you should be rewarded, no matter how badly you do. I've been in top 5 with under 350 points before. Some top 10 players had under 100. And no player was AFK that I noticed. It was just a total stomp. Players were trying, dying and still gaining little or no WP. They should be rewarded. A new player fresh out the academy in a protostomp can't be expected to get hundreds of WP.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5639	Posted - 2015.01.07 18:52:00 - [77] - Quote Raptor Princess wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Raptor Princess wrote: Piraten Hovnoret wrote: serius that negative go positive is not he way to go in pub, if anything ad isk payout in FW buy that formula. It does not address the problem with AFK abusse I still state a realy low wp cap to get payed is the easiest and fastest way to go. A 50-200wp cap to get any isk resolves it. Agsain the ppl doing this are NOT the new players it's scruby veterans. A low cap like that does actully incurige game play also the 0-0-0 afkers don't want to play at al. It's a alt with the sole intent to isk farm if they have to move/drop links/etc to get a payout they won't even try. As it is now it's just to easy to AFK farm no solution vill resolve it 100% but if you make it HARDER less will do it. Quite simple realy Let's be honest 50-200 wp is not hard to get even as a new player, and don't say a new player comes to the game to sit in the mcc farming Isk. Sorry 4 my bad English Oh and it's awsome that we at least have started to talk about this issue regardless of outcome., Best regards I've been playing for something like 7 months now. When I started, I aimed to get 100WP per match and felt awesome when I did. Ok, so maybe that's cause I'd never really played a fps before and didn't understand uplinks (and only used starter fits for about a month) but I can't be alone in that. Putting a WP cap will impact on the NPE for some people at least. Getting negative feedback like no ISK or SP would at least provide some idea to a new player that they are doing it wrong. To be honest this would be perfect for snipers. Sniping itself is a situational thing in most matches. I firmly believe new players should not feel as though sniping is a good entry level role. If a new player started out sniping and getting 25 to 200 WP continually they'd have to figure out that the good stuff (high payouts and SP) is where the action is. Getting no ISK or SP would put a lot of people off playing. If you try, and put in time/effort, you should be rewarded, no matter how badly you do. I've been in top 5 with under 350 points before. Some top 10 players had under 100. And no player was AFK that I noticed. It was just a total stomp. Players were trying, dying and still gaining little or no WP. They should be rewarded. A new player fresh out the academy in a protostomp can't be expected to get hundreds of WP. I do have sympathy for those situations. However I don't believe these would be as frequent if people were in corps and squading up. If people thought it was worth the effort to squad up and thought they'd get compensated properly for winning I think it would drastically change behavior (and results) in pub matches. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5639	Posted - 2015.01.07 18:55:00 - [78] - Quote Also, Piraten WTF dude? Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
Balistyc Farshot The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 20	Posted - 2015.01.07 19:14:00 - [79] - Quote This thread has evolved into how do we fix the cost to reward system in ISK. I think we should address that as an overall problem and focus on the afk farmers. I agree that distance traveled would be very easy to institute but that would be a matter of time before someone gamed that system as well by holding down the forward run button with a favorite suit as a militia fitting. How about this for afk farmers: Make each mode provide almost basic daily mission values for the losing side with isk and also based on WP. That way losing and doing nothing means you get isk, but very little, say 20k (One advanced suit non-logi). This has been recommended in this thread in a couple of different ways. This would need more work to get exact numbers, so someone needs to get out a spreadsheet. For fixing the overall isk issue for the cost of using proto, there needs to be more work on that. I can't think of a simple fix without going to your tiered system you guys are working on. First idea: I would say to make challenging proto when you are being proto stomped could be a fun problem for CCP to fix. This would require more information about what you capture about a battle. I would like to say that a good idea would be to pay out both teams based on the total cost to that team. Say I pull out my proto suit to fight back and get into the top 5 for WP but we lose to a full proto team. We spent more on my team for losses because we were cloned, so I get possibly more isk even than the enemy, because they only died a little. (Like I said, this needs another thread because this is the surface of even my idea.) Good luck with those 2 problems. Heavy with a massive bullet hose called Lola (Burst HMG).
Union118 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 172	Posted - 2015.01.07 19:17:00 - [80] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: there must be a good formula in the vein of (isk killed + abs(isk lost)) times pool available times wp/total team wp times win bonus multiplier that would make you less scared of earning more WP through losses I quit playing your game. Please make it fun so I can come back. Starter Fit Suits are OP :-)

Luna McDuffing COALICION LATINA Smart Deploy 137	Posted - 2015.01.07 19:40:00 - [81] - Quote I've seen a lot of scrubby things in this game which can be very annoying and frustrating. That being said this is a war game and anything and everything is fair in war. If it was a sport game then yes there should be strict rule because sports are all about determining who is the best under certain strict rules. War however is about winning at all cost. So, as far as I see it and as wrong as it may seem scrub moves are ok.
SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 779	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:04:00 - [82] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: (isk killed + abs(isk lost)) times pool available times wp/total team wp times win bonus multiplier What is 'abs' in this formula? CCP Rattati wrote: that would make you less scared of earning more WP through losses Pardon? Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I am having trouble understanding what you mean by this. abs means negative is turned to positive. what I mean is that even if I go proto and lose a shitload of isk, if it makes my team win and I earn a lot of wp, I will still get a lot of isk back, instead of the 2-300k i get now. SirManBoy on the CPM is my counterpart in this "Win by any means necessary" initiative Word up! Victory is all that matters! Thrift be damned! Whatever it takes, whatever the cost...WIN, WIN, WIN!!!
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 7022	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:15:00 - [83] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: (isk killed + abs(isk lost)) times pool available times wp/total team wp times win bonus multiplier What is 'abs' in this formula? CCP Rattati wrote: that would make you less scared of earning more WP through losses Pardon? Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I am having trouble understanding what you mean by this. abs means negative is turned to positive. what I mean is that even if I go proto and lose a shitload of isk, if it makes my team win and I earn a lot of wp, I will still get a lot of isk back, instead of the 2-300k i get now. SirManBoy on the CPM is my counterpart in this "Win by any means necessary" initiative Word up! Victory is all that matters! Thrift be damned! Whatever it takes, whatever the cost...WIN, WIN, WIN!!! Except some of us didn't get to suckle the Passive-ISK-PC Era teet. I can barely run standard suits and go balls out to win and break even when I lose, much less try and throw proto suits out there. @ Rattati Is there a way to gauge activity by WP earned through repping, hacking, killing, assists etc. vs being passive by only dropping links and AFKing, or simply AFKing? If so, would it be possible to use an ISK multiplier based on "Active WP Earned" to reward players for at least trying even if they are losing? It would allow you to reward an effort by people on a losing team while not encouraging AFKers and bad redline snipers. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Orber Gen Academy Inferno E-R-A 269	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:22:00 - [84] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Is there a way to gauge activity by WP earned through repping, hacking, killing, assists etc. vs being passive by only dropping links and AFKing, or simply AFKing? If so, would it be possible to use an ISK multiplier based on "Active WP Earned" to reward players for at least trying even if they are losing? It would allow you to reward an effort by people on a losing team while not encouraging AFKers and bad redline snipers. U such a LOL. ISK is not the issue. If someone thinks that AFK is about ISK - ur wrong. Because, if u want get AFK ISK u going to academy by ur alt AFK is about SP and only SP. We have APEX, I have full line of amarrian APEX and I don't need proto lol
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 1734	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:35:00 - [85] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: what I mean is that even if I go proto and lose a shitload of isk, if it makes my team win and I earn a lot of wp, I will still get a lot of isk back, instead of the 2-300k i get now. SirManBoy on the CPM is my counterpart in this "Win by any means necessary" initiative Won't this basically cause someone to run proto every. single. match. since they will recoup their losses by running proto? This feels like a "run proto or you aren't in any way competitive" initiative. trick is to figure out a better way, but you have to explain why proto running equals win in this case. First ISK and SP need to be removed for people who are AFKing. Honestly I am not sure how this would happen but AFKing is breaking match making as well as breaking payouts for those that are actually playing. Some thoughts. Remove ALL passive SP from being in battle and increase passive SP outside of battle to make up for the gap this will leave newbies with. Make all in battle SP payout 3-4x earned warpoints. ISK is a bit trickier but I felt like the old system worked far better. Basing payouts on total destroyed in battle worked very well except for when people were AFKing thus not burning any suits or contributing to the win. A return to the old system with a few upgrades would likely be the best idea here. Things that could be added to bring the old system up to par include: Meta level multiplier. The average meta level you ran acts as a booster of sorts for isk. For example a person who ends up with an average meta level of 8 would receive 1.08x the payout they should have received. This stat should be calculated based on the suits you LOST so that a person can not merely toss on a meta 10 suit and hide in the MCC. Rank multiplier. Adding a simple bonus multiplier for your spot on the killboard would drive competition for that extra 50 points to move you up a spot. This bonus would need to only have a small gap between each position but a large gap over all between 1st and last place. Again these multipliers should be applied to the OLD system described here http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012/12/11/dust-514-war-and-profit/
Funkmaster Whale Whale Pod 2713	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:37:00 - [86] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: what I mean is that even if I go proto and lose a shitload of isk, if it makes my team win and I earn a lot of wp, I will still get a lot of isk back, instead of the 2-300k i get now. SirManBoy on the CPM is my counterpart in this "Win by any means necessary" initiative Won't this basically cause someone to run proto every. single. match. since they will recoup their losses by running proto? This feels like a "run proto or you aren't in any way competitive" initiative. trick is to figure out a better way, but you have to explain why proto running equals win in this case. A simple multiplier for both your ISK lost and destroyed such that you dont run into a scenario where ISK lost = ISK gained. For example ([1.1 * isk killed] + abs(.5 * isk lost)) or something of the sort. You shouldn't be rewarded the entire cost of your suit back for dying, but just enough such that it would incentivize people to use higher tier suits to be more effective. Lastly, 0 WP contribution needs to have a drastic reduction in ISK/SP rewards as it heavily promotes AFKing. Follow me on Twitch.tv!
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 7022	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:40:00 - [87] - Quote Orber Gen wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Is there a way to gauge activity by WP earned through repping, hacking, killing, assists etc. vs being passive by only dropping links and AFKing, or simply AFKing? If so, would it be possible to use an ISK multiplier based on "Active WP Earned" to reward players for at least trying even if they are losing? It would allow you to reward an effort by people on a losing team while not encouraging AFKers and bad redline snipers. U such a LOL. ISK is not the issue. If someone thinks that AFK is about ISK - ur wrong. Because, if u want get AFK ISK u going to academy by ur alt AFK is about SP and only SP. We have APEX, I have full line of amarrian APEX and I don't need proto lol Thank you for this excellent contribution to the discussion... Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Orber Gen Academy Inferno E-R-A 270	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:51:00 - [88] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Thank you for this excellent contribution to the discussion... LOL. This "discussions" always about 0 WP = 0 ISK/SP. It's going around and around for 2 years now. U can't fix AFK if u don't put meaning to the game. And if someone think that CCP is just "FIX IT" by removing passive SP, u wrong again, a lot of AFK players pay for boosters and they waiting for EVE: Legion. Killing AFK = killing money flow So, the can FIX THE GAME, or they can shoot to the knee I don't care anymore. I have my ~100kk SP and It's end game, with that amount SP DUST can't give anything interesting.
Stupid Blueberry Hyasyoda Terrestrial Acquisitions Firm 821	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:54:00 - [89] - Quote Or we could remove mlt sniper and swarm fits Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Haajakin Kalen.
Stile451 Red Star. 384	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:56:00 - [90] - Quote I have an AFK detection proposal which should help with the majority of issues. This proposal replaces the current AFK detection system. The basic premise is that if a player remains at the same coordinates(or set of coordinates within x meters) and has not damaged another player or been damaged by another player they should be assumed to be AFKing and kicked. Players who are kicked for AFKing should be fined 500,000 ISK and receive no SP for the match but have it removed from their available weekly cap. A mail from Concord will be sent explaining the consequences of their inaction. These actions and only these actions would reset the AFK timer: Movement in an irregular fashion(no repeating pattern over x seconds). Causing an enemy player/installation/vehicle damage. Receiving damage from an enemy. Expected Results: No rubber banding as the player does not change coordinates. No simple macro movement as it is a pattern. No macro firing/crouching/jumping. ISK farming should be reduced. SP farming should be reduced.

Orber Gen Academy Inferno E-R-A 270	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:03:00 - [91] - Quote Stupid Blueberry wrote: Or we could remove mlt sniper and swarm fits That sounds like a decision. Lets do that :3 Stile451 wrote: Expected Results: No rubber banding as the player does not change coordinates. No simple macro movement as it is a pattern. No macro firing/crouching/jumping. ISK farming should be reduced. SP farming should be reduced. +no players. I like that too
Mortedeamor Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1836	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:12:00 - [92] - Quote GM Archduke wrote: Any suggestions on how this could be addressed and solved? Bump isk payouts to promote playing
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5649	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:13:00 - [93] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Orber Gen wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Is there a way to gauge activity by WP earned through repping, hacking, killing, assists etc. vs being passive by only dropping links and AFKing, or simply AFKing? If so, would it be possible to use an ISK multiplier based on "Active WP Earned" to reward players for at least trying even if they are losing? It would allow you to reward an effort by people on a losing team while not encouraging AFKers and bad redline snipers. U such a LOL. ISK is not the issue. If someone thinks that AFK is about ISK - ur wrong. Because, if u want get AFK ISK u going to academy by ur alt AFK is about SP and only SP. We have APEX, I have full line of amarrian APEX and I don't need proto lol Thank you for this excellent contribution to the discussion... There were too many posts in your response to SMB's post above and I'm too stupid to edit quotes so I'm going to respond here. Aside from covering ISK losses in PC losses nobody has ever gotten ISK from PC, during locking or not in our corp. SMB doesn't PC very often anyway. He's actually just a huge fan and supporter of Dust. Nobody that wants to see Dust succeed can be happy with the payout system nor the way matches play out most of the time. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
Mortedeamor Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1836	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:15:00 - [94] - Quote The Eristic wrote: Buwaro Draemon wrote: The real question is: Why is it always the Anti-Armor starter fits that we see squatting in a corner? Fittings are sorted alphabetically. It's the first starter fit in the list by default. This is very much not the reason why ...If you don't know why it's always a starter av fitting it shouldn't be hard for you to figure it out personally I won't tell you because I want ccp to bump isk payouts But there is a reason a glitch and that's why you see starter av Fitts afking
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 697	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:15:00 - [95] - Quote The tread is derailing with the help of ccp and cpm it had come to be something else. Still say a easy fix to AFK framing is a low wp cap like 100 wp. Those that say that is to high for new ppl, well I just don't agree even if I respect your opiniun. Regards War never changes
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5649	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:16:00 - [96] - Quote Orber Gen wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Thank you for this excellent contribution to the discussion... LOL. This "discussions" always about 0 WP = 0 ISK/SP. It's going around and around for 2 years now. U can't fix AFK if u don't put meaning to the game. And if someone think that CCP is just "FIX IT" by removing passive SP, u wrong again, a lot of AFK players pay for boosters and they waiting for EVE: Legion. Killing AFK = killing money flow So, the can FIX THE GAME, or they can shoot to the knee I don't care anymore. I have my ~100kk SP and It's end game, with that amount SP DUST can't give anything interesting. This might be the dumbest post on these forums, ever. If you'd rather be able to continue AFKing than actually playing matches that reward you for doing well then I'm not sure why I'm even responding. But to think that fixing payouts would lead to LESS money for CCP makes me feel sorry for you. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
Nirwanda Vaughns 1196	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:27:00 - [97] - Quote GM Archduke wrote: Any suggestions on how this could be addressed and solved? how to fix people afking for more isk? perhaps just as SP is based on several factors do the same for isk as to increase isk payouts per match? example the other day i was in a game and didn't really too great. was 0/4 with about 500wp's and i got just under 9,000isk for a full skirmish!! even using my cheapest SVER logi suit i lost money the first time i died. amazingly when the isk glitch happened evryone i spoke to said that teh game was actually fun to play because of the isk payouts. now i'm not sayign pay out 4mill isk a match but if i'm logi'ing my backside off repping team mates, using an injector, dropping hives as well as gettign a few kills in a 20-30min skirmish match walking out with 4000wps and 10kills then i'm gonan wanna see a paycheck of a 1m isk or more. think of it liek the events we have where we're paid 1000isk per kill but have it in game all time and payout additional isk for... Headhsot Team Revive Kill Triage Spawn uplink Mobile CRU spawn Multiplier for killstreaks 1000 first kill 2000 for second, 4000 for third ect upto a max of 10000 and so on increase reward based on tier used so team revive with a STD injector gives you 10k, ADV gives 20k PRO 30k kill a higher tier suit with lower tier weapon, 50k (no bonus for higher tier killign lower tier) it solves a lot of problems, proto stomp corps don't earn as much for killign noobs in their STD gear it encourages logis to be logis too. Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner
Stile451 Red Star. 384	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:29:00 - [98] - Quote Orber Gen wrote: Stupid Blueberry wrote: Or we could remove mlt sniper and swarm fits That sounds like a decision. Lets do that :3 Stile451 wrote: Expected Results: No rubber banding as the player does not change coordinates. No simple macro movement as it is a pattern. No macro firing/crouching/jumping. ISK farming should be reduced. SP farming should be reduced. +no players. I like that too Those things taking up roster space and having no benefit to the team aren't players.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 413	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:30:00 - [99] - Quote GM Archduke wrote: Any suggestions on how this could be addressed and solved? No LP, isk, sp for getting 0 warpoints.
Mortedeamor Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1836	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:30:00 - [100] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Orber Gen wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Thank you for this excellent contribution to the discussion... LOL. This "discussions" always about 0 WP = 0 ISK/SP. It's going around and around for 2 years now. U can't fix AFK if u don't put meaning to the game. And if someone think that CCP is just "FIX IT" by removing passive SP, u wrong again, a lot of AFK players pay for boosters and they waiting for EVE: Legion. Killing AFK = killing money flow So, the can FIX THE GAME, or they can shoot to the knee I don't care anymore. I have my ~100kk SP and It's end game, with that amount SP DUST can't give anything interesting. This might be the dumbest post on these forums, ever. If you'd rather be able to continue AFKing than actually playing matches that reward you for doing well then I'm not sure why I'm even responding. But to think that fixing payouts would lead to LESS money for CCP makes me feel sorry for you. Then why don't they fix payouts ? If they don't think low isk payouts promote aurum purchases why has the risk vs reward factor never been addressed in almost 3 years.

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5655	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:35:00 - [101] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Orber Gen wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Thank you for this excellent contribution to the discussion... LOL. This "discussions" always about 0 WP = 0 ISK/SP. It's going around and around for 2 years now. U can't fix AFK if u don't put meaning to the game. And if someone think that CCP is just "FIX IT" by removing passive SP, u wrong again, a lot of AFK players pay for boosters and they waiting for EVE: Legion. Killing AFK = killing money flow So, the can FIX THE GAME, or they can shoot to the knee I don't care anymore. I have my ~100kk SP and It's end game, with that amount SP DUST can't give anything interesting. This might be the dumbest post on these forums, ever. If you'd rather be able to continue AFKing than actually playing matches that reward you for doing well then I'm not sure why I'm even responding. But to think that fixing payouts would lead to LESS money for CCP makes me feel sorry for you. Then why don't they fix payouts ? If they don't think low isk payouts promote aurum purchases why has the risk vs reward factor never been addressed in almost 3 years. Because of the idiots that think raising payouts will only help the proto stompers. They never stop to realize that they'd be more effective against them if they were able to run ADV instead of cheap stuff. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 7029	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:49:00 - [102] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: There were too many posts in your response to SMB's post above and I'm too stupid to edit quotes so I'm going to respond here. Aside from covering ISK losses in PC losses nobody has ever gotten ISK from PC, during locking or not in our corp. SMB doesn't PC very often anyway. He's actually just a huge fan and supporter of Dust. Nobody that wants to see Dust succeed can be happy with the payout system nor the way matches play out most of the time. I was under the impression there was a period of time in which districts had passive ISK rewards, and that there were some people who had billions of ISK as a result. I did not mean to imply that I thought SMB was one of those people, so if that is how it came off I apologize. That being said, given how much ISK it takes to run proto suits, and how unlikely it is to run a net gain in many modes while running only proto, I simply disagree with the whatever-it-takes-to-win-means-running-proto mentality in Pubs, which from the context of the majority of the thread seem to be what is discussed. First, Pubs should be the go to place for Newberries out of the Academy. I don't think encouraging more people to proto stomp Pubs is a good idea at this point, unless something majorly changes. Second, I don't think that you need to run decked out proto suits to make your best attempt to win. I think effort and activity need to be taken into account, especially when considering new players who are doing what they can to contribute to a win despite being against people with many times their SP and in game experience. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 697	Posted - 2015.01.07 22:07:00 - [103] - Quote Luna McDuffing wrote: I've seen a lot of scrubby things in this game which can be very annoying and frustrating. That being said this is a war game and anything and everything is fair in war. If it was a sport game then yes there should be strict rule because sports are all about determining who is the best under certain strict rules. War however is about winning at all cost. So, as far as I see it and as wrong as it may seem scrub moves are ok. In war (battle) if you refuse to follow a order ( like charge a point ) the officer have the right to shoot you at the spot. War never changes
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6184	Posted - 2015.01.07 22:09:00 - [104] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: there must be a good formula in the vein of (isk killed + abs(isk lost)) times pool available times wp/total team wp times win bonus multiplier that would make you less scared of earning more WP through losses any reward formula predicated on ISK destroyed will fail to properly reward players. ISK killed is a worthless metric when the majority of players in a lot of matches are farming ISK in cheap and free fits. You get squat if the enemy team is cheaping out and only get paid if they splurge on proto and die a lot. It's a lousy metric, please for the love of all that is holy, find a new reward metric. One based on warpoints or flat isk rewards given for battle actions. But this dependency on the other tewam to protostomp and be incompetent really needs to go. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1697	Posted - 2015.01.07 23:04:00 - [105] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Orber Gen wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Orber Gen wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Is there a way to gauge activity by WP earned through repping, hacking, killing, assists etc. vs being passive by only dropping links and AFKing, or simply AFKing? If so, would it be possible to use an ISK multiplier based on "Active WP Earned" to reward players for at least trying even if they are losing? It would allow you to reward an effort by people on a losing team while not encouraging AFKers and bad redline snipers. U such a LOL. ISK is not the issue. If someone thinks that AFK is about ISK - ur wrong. Because, if u want get AFK ISK u going to academy by ur alt AFK is about SP and only SP. We have APEX, I have full line of amarrian APEX and I don't need proto lol Thank you for this excellent contribution to the discussion... LOL. This "discussions" always about 0 WP = 0 ISK/SP. It's going around and around for 2 years now. U can't fix AFK if u don't put meaning to the game. And if someone think that CCP is just "FIX IT" by removing passive SP, u wrong again, a lot of AFK players pay for boosters and they waiting for EVE: Legion. Killing AFK = killing money flow So, the can FIX THE GAME, or they can shoot to the knee I don't care anymore. I have my ~100kk SP and It's end game, with that amount SP DUST can't give anything interesting. This might be the dumbest post on these forums, ever. If you'd rather be able to continue AFKing than actually playing matches that reward you for doing well then I'm not sure why I'm even responding. But to think that fixing payouts would lead to LESS money for CCP makes me feel sorry for you. Dear Mr Thor Odinson42, Even while being somewhat rude, Mr Orber Gen is absolutely spot on. AFK farming is mostly about SP, the isk or LP is just the bonus. I know other afk farmers and can also speak for myself: I afk farm in order to reach the cap. Pre-november 2014 I afk farmed my alts (boosters on) in order to cap them. At current 750k cap I afk farm in order to reach the the humongous cap, the reason being that I just don't have the physical time to reach it otherwise (boostering only this char). Heck, I even afk farm to post on forums. How NOT to fight afk farming: - Minimum WP requirement: afk farmers do gain WPs. I have even reached the 4th spot on team by afk farming (although it was an extreme case) and I have a picture to prove it if needed. (Note that is one more reason not to do the elsewhere suggested payout multiplier by scoreboard position) - Votes for public matches: too intrusive, too serious, too disruptive. Breaks the immersion, not in the spirit of casual easily approachable game. FW or corp matches are a different case. - Have a minimum kill requirement: needless to explain this one. - Kick if character not moving: ineffective, rubberband circumvents. - Remove passive SP gain based on time on match: This is a tricky one. While this would remove most afk farming, the price is too high. Too harsh for newbros or roles not focused on either slaying or WP-maximising. - EDIT: Isk destroyed: as Mr Breaking Stuff above ^ explained. The right and best way to reduce afk farming is to minimise the motivation to do it BUT at the same time make sure that also others than just elite players can have gains! Pro-choice! For hazardous self-activated inertial dampeners! We want to live on the edge (((of MCC)))
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1697	Posted - 2015.01.07 23:15:00 - [106] - Quote DAMIOS82 wrote: I believe the best way to handle farmers is a FieldCommander, Instead of just only having squad commanders, you basicly get a one ring to rule them all type of character. This commander gets extra abbilty's to effect the war. So while everybody can call in an OB, the FC can also call in other types like carpet bombing, etc, Turrets, depots, etc. But in the case of Farming they also get an option to remove them. So first the FC select the character and presses the button/option and a warning is send to the farmer, then a countdown is started. 60 sec. After those 60 sec, the FC presses the option again, countdown starts again 60 sec. Then the FC gets an option Force removal and the farmer is removed. Or one could do a 1 time 2 min countdown, same system. Now to make sure there is no abuse of the system. The squad commanders need to vote on it, To give the FC that power. Just a simple button/option, majority rules. So if there are 6 squads, you need a minimum of 3 votes. If there is only 1 squad and the rest is playing solo, then the FC needs only that 1 vote. This way the Farmer has 2 min to start playing when caught, then the FC can remove them. Now offcourse one could say ok what's to stop the removal when a farmer has started playing, well they get a counter action, during those 120 sec, Which forces the hole process to start over. One could also add additional warning signs on screen to alert the players to the actions beeing taken. This way it's fair for all and hard to abuse. farmers that don't pay attention are removed from the game without pay. But it also leaves enough time for someone to respond, who just went for a bathroom break, or snacks, etc. Not to mention having a FC on the field leaves enough room for many more fun stuff to be added into the game and anybody can take it's position. (sidenote: YES for commander role, there should be one for corp battles/PC and could be for FW. Removing awoxers or afkers after certain time makes sense) Votes for public matches: too intrusive, too serious, too disruptive. Breaks the immersion, not in the spirit of casual easily approachable game. Again, FW or corp matches are a different case. Let's improve the afker kicking method: [SUGGESTION:] If a player has been 'passive' for certain time, let the client display randomly one of the four playstation symbols (square, circle, X, triangle) and prompt him to enter it. He may access menu at convenient time, within reason ofc, and confirm his active status A certain 'security check'. Think it as the worlds simplest captcha. I don't believe anyone would rig a PC with picture recognition and reactive input, especially as there would have to be menu navigation first. This is better than requiring controller input which could be macroed (yes even complex ones) (knock on wood.... ) Pro-choice! For hazardous self-activated inertial dampeners! We want to live on the edge (((of MCC)))
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1697	Posted - 2015.01.07 23:18:00 - [107] - Quote So the correct way to address (minimise) afk farming is to both Reduce the motivation for it and take away the simplest ways of doing it. (rubberband walking to wall ffs) Either one alone is not enough without serious collateral damage. Pro-choice! For hazardous self-activated inertial dampeners! We want to live on the edge (((of MCC)))
Sir Snugglz Red Star. 1102	Posted - 2015.01.08 00:55:00 - [108] - Quote Buwaro Draemon wrote: The real question is: Why is it always the Anti-Armor starter fits that we see squatting in a corner? Ever since I got all my Min APEX suits with lots of hard work and afking, I've been running my Min APEX Sentinel in the corner. No more militia fits. Now I run proto bpos with basic modules on. Especially during FW. Not only does it take longer to kill me but it forces the blueberries to do more friendly damage which could lead to a sooner kick. I think it's time to improve the afking experience. I've always asked for a sitting animation or at least a couch to be included in the MCC. You can a screen that shows the entire map from above or even switch between what different blueberries are seeing. That way our merc gets some entertainment and does not have to stare at a wall the entire time. -Pro AFKing LVL 5 -Luck is just one of my skills -Just because I make flying look easy doesn't mean it is
Sir Snugglz Red Star. 1102	Posted - 2015.01.08 01:44:00 - [109] - Quote Ok, ima be serious for a bit. You guys are looking at it all wrong. AFKING is not a cause, it's an effect. You cannot fix an effect. The only way to rid an effect is to attack the cause. And truth be told EVERYONE knows as to what causes afking. It's the same cause that makes people leave the game. The only difference between afkers and people that leave, is that afkers still have the hope that this game will be close to what it was promoted to be while the people that leave have simply given up on it or taking a break. I'll ask the obvious question, WHY DO AFKERS AFK? Why doesnt anyone ask that question? It's because we all know the answer. And we hate to argue reason. When you admit that you understand why they do it, you cant help to not blame them for doing it. But we dare not talk about that because it forces you to acknowledge the root of the problem which is the game itself. And yes, the game has made significant improvements and a couple of step backs, but the progress is there, slow, but there. I dont afk in pubs. Why? because i dont play pubs. Pubs is for grinding isk. I dont need isk. If I do play pubs it's because I've queued and gotten scotty too many times in FW and would rather farm SP since i cant get any LP. Why do I afk in FW? Because it takes to long to get into a match.Average time is 15-20 min (or 1-2 scotty messages, however you want to look at it) on a good day. By the time I get in, i'm already halfway in a match on League. And dont tell me to go play pubs. I dont want to play pubs, I want FW. I'll bet you'll use the same arguments if I said to combine pub queue with FW queue so you get forced to play FW. You want a simple (yet not so simple coding wise) fix to the cause of afking? Got to do two things: 1. Matchmaking: people are not gonna fight q-sync proto stompers with 15 other randoms. Academy newberries and veterans alike will agree to this. And if you say that those are your fav battles you are lying. 2.Faster queues. I've gone to buy groceries in the time it takes to get into a match. I get to do 2-3 raids in Clash of clans (including timers to build armies) or play 1 full match of ARAM on League of legends.That's not something that should be possible. Scotty should never have existed in the first place. He was implementation because queues would take 15-20 min or more. But now with Scotty, no queue lasts more than 10 minutes [:D] but that doesnt mean you'll get put in a match. I GUARANTEE you that if you fix these two things that afking will no longer be an issue. The only way to argue against afking is the defend this system of proto stomping q-sync matchmaking system and long queues and I have yet to meet someone that enjoys one if not both of these things. AFKING is part of this system. This isn't the first game to use this system. You have to change the system. Dont want to? Then accept afking. You guys are talk. We all want to get rid of afking (even me). But no one is willing to put in the work. Because we know how hard it will be to fix those 2 simple things and if it were easy, it would've been done a long time ago -Pro AFKing LVL 5 -Luck is just one of my skills -Just because I make flying look easy doesn't mean it is
Bremen van Equis BASTARDS OF BEDLAM 106	Posted - 2015.01.08 02:50:00 - [110] - Quote How about tying being kicked from a match to distance travelled in battle? They've been using the metric for daily missionsGÇªwhy not just apply a simple ratio of time in battle to distance travelled. I'm no good with math, so someone else help me out with the #'s...but I think this could be a robust solution. EDIT: Oh waitGÇªbeing kicked for lack of distance travelled in battle might put a damper on redline tanks and MCC snipers. Yikes... Buckle up, boysGÇªthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop

Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 122	Posted - 2015.01.08 02:58:00 - [111] - Quote Bremen van Equis wrote: How about tying being kicked from a match to distance travelled in battle? They've been using the metric for daily missionsGÇªwhy not just apply a simple ratio of time in battle to distance travelled. I'm no good with math, so someone else help me out with the #'s...but I think this could be a robust solution. A player running in circles could achieve that in a long match, I'm sure.
Bremen van Equis BASTARDS OF BEDLAM 106	Posted - 2015.01.08 02:59:00 - [112] - Quote Raptor Princess wrote: Bremen van Equis wrote: How about tying being kicked from a match to distance travelled in battle? They've been using the metric for daily missionsGÇªwhy not just apply a simple ratio of time in battle to distance travelled. I'm no good with math, so someone else help me out with the #'s...but I think this could be a robust solution. A player running in circles could achieve that in a long match, I'm sure. Ahhh man! Thought I was on to something... Buckle up, boysGÇªthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 781	Posted - 2015.01.08 03:30:00 - [113] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: SirManBoy wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: abs means negative is turned to positive. what I mean is that even if I go proto and lose a shitload of isk, if it makes my team win and I earn a lot of wp, I will still get a lot of isk back, instead of the 2-300k i get now. SirManBoy on the CPM is my counterpart in this "Win by any means necessary" initiative Word up! Victory is all that matters! Thrift be damned! Whatever it takes, whatever the cost...WIN, WIN, WIN!!! Except some of us didn't get to suckle the Passive-ISK-PC Era teet. I can barely run standard suits and go balls out to win and break even when I lose, much less try and throw proto suits out there. And wouldn't you love that to change?
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 7043	Posted - 2015.01.08 03:47:00 - [114] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: One Eyed King wrote: SirManBoy wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: abs means negative is turned to positive. what I mean is that even if I go proto and lose a shitload of isk, if it makes my team win and I earn a lot of wp, I will still get a lot of isk back, instead of the 2-300k i get now. SirManBoy on the CPM is my counterpart in this "Win by any means necessary" initiative Word up! Victory is all that matters! Thrift be damned! Whatever it takes, whatever the cost...WIN, WIN, WIN!!! Except some of us didn't get to suckle the Passive-ISK-PC Era teet. I can barely run standard suits and go balls out to win and break even when I lose, much less try and throw proto suits out there. And wouldn't you love that to change? To the degree that it doesn't create a Proto or go home environment yes. I think there needs to be room for newberries in Pubs, even if in a open meta capacity mode at some point in the future when there may be some meta capped modes. I would rather see effort rewarded than wearing the highest meta gear you can. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
iKILLu osborne Titans of Phoenix 576	Posted - 2015.01.08 06:08:00 - [115] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Ahh FC roles, if only people played this game like a team based game and not like Call of Duty or King of the Hill. That's why I strongly prefer PC and FW, pubbers are just too unorganized. finally something we can agree on if you shoot me from the redline i will ensure your death will be a swift one
KILL3R H3LLH0UND Agents of Twilight 137	Posted - 2015.01.08 06:34:00 - [116] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Raptor Princess wrote: I would be very much opposed to any kind of voting system for kicking a player - I've stopped being a sniper in FW most of the time because people on my own team come up behind me and kill me (and sometimes then message me complaining about me sniping). In pubs, the worst I put up with is someone coming up and standing in front of me or meleeing the back of my head til I move. If people could kick team mates, I'd be worried it could be abused to kick players people don't want on their side, rather than only players who are AFK. I think this is a bad idea as well. I'm not a fan of snipers at all, 99% of them could be considered AFK by most definitions, but that's an issue for another thread. Cough... Pretty much full time sniper here. I am by no means useless, in fact I have been the leading factor as to why we have won in the past. I've even sniped in PCs. Master Scout Trainer, been falling in love with my CalAss BPO collector.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5071	Posted - 2015.01.08 07:18:00 - [117] - Quote Sir Snugglz wrote: Truth Whether it's this, the redline, or whatever other symptom, I get more and more depressed as time goes on and people continue to try and fix the wrong "problems" over and over again. No one ever learns... (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 704	Posted - 2015.01.08 08:09:00 - [118] - Quote Sir manboy and the CCP staff. From the bottom of my hart thank you for derailing this thread. This was about AFK isk farming not about starting/making a proto favoured payout system/mode. That's a horrible sugestion that need and deserve to be voiced at the forums in a different thread. When reading down the opinions and sugestions on the AFK issue it boils down to 2 suggestions. First is : A voting system of some sort to kick ppl out Second : A low wp cap ( 50-300 have been suggested) to get a payout I like both however the first one I belive will take CCP to mutch time and rescorses to get that thing into place. ( plz feel free to coment ccp ) The second is a easy fix and should not be that hard to get in place. The criticism to this is that new players will have a hard time getting payouts at al if this is put into place. I respect that opinion however I don't agree with it. A low wp cap ( let's say 100wp ) will remove most AFK ISK farming of course there is ways to round this but the bigger the I obstacle the bigger efort. A low cap is also a statment "get your hands dirty" Also I state that it isn't the new players that try this game out that go strait for the mcc to sit and farm isk again that's scruby veterans that do that. Now we come full circle. I want I honest reflection over this 2 things from ccp and sir manboy. Then close this tread War never changes
zero shocker TRUE TEA BAGGERS 47	Posted - 2015.01.08 11:26:00 - [119] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: what I mean is that even if I go proto and lose a shitload of isk, if it makes my team win and I earn a lot of wp, I will still get a lot of isk back, instead of the 2-300k i get now. SirManBoy on the CPM is my counterpart in this "Win by any means necessary" initiative Won't this basically cause someone to run proto every. single. match. since they will recoup their losses by running proto? This feels like a "run proto or you aren't in any way competitive" initiative. trick is to figure out a better way, but you have to explain why proto running equals win in this case. This multiplier should only effect the losing team to encourage people to go proto and try to win the match.
Jack Boost Zarena Family 583	Posted - 2015.01.08 11:47:00 - [120] - Quote We have good system for AFK. (!?!) and ISK/wp gain, but there is problem to execute it. Now we need get out from the box. How make it run? - shrinking/moving red-zones (to range almost same for both teams at 3/4 of match) - multi part matches - where ppl must move all stuff. How it will works? People who out of match (because of moving redzones and spawn zones) don't get stuff :) Easy If there will be only way to get (name it) 10 sp and 1000 isk people still will do it. If somehow afker stay and still respawn people just clone out faster and match dont bring much profit from time spend ingame. This simly idea overdrive most of problems that you point or not eg. noone mention people that join last few sec of match and THEY get 0 wp 0 kils 0 running metters etc.... and probably only get 'defeat' screen. IF you want kick it more (voting? :) this will be more painful. Not much time left...

John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5071	Posted - 2015.01.08 12:50:00 - [121] - Quote Piraten Hovnoret wrote: Sir manboy and the CCP staff. From the bottom of my hart thank you for derailing this thread. This was about AFK isk farming not about starting/making a proto favoured payout system/mode. That's a horrible sugestion that need and deserve to be voiced at the forums in a different thread. When reading down the opinions and sugestions on the AFK issue it boils down to 2 suggestions. First is : A voting system of some sort to kick ppl out Second : A low wp cap ( 50-300 have been suggested) to get a payout I like both however the first one I belive will take CCP to mutch time and rescorses to get that thing into place. ( plz feel free to coment ccp ) The second is a easy fix and should not be that hard to get in place. The criticism to this is that new players will have a hard time getting payouts at al if this is put into place. I respect that opinion however I don't agree with it. A low wp cap ( let's say 100wp ) will remove most AFK ISK farming of course there is ways to round this but the bigger the I obstacle the bigger efort. A low cap is also a statment "get your hands dirty" Also I state that it isn't the new players that try this game out that go strait for the mcc to sit and farm isk again that's scruby veterans that do that. Now we come full circle. I want I honest reflection over this 2 things from ccp and sir manboy. Then close this tread You've said the underlined part a few times. Just to make sure this is clear since there are always unfortunate language barriers here that can cloud things: The reason we say that a WP cap to get a payout is bad for new players is NOT because we think new players AFK. It's because new players are not very good at the game and if one gets zero payouts once they leave the academy, even if only for 1-2 battles, then they quit and we've lost another one. (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 705	Posted - 2015.01.08 13:35:00 - [122] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Piraten Hovnoret wrote: Sir manboy and the CCP staff. From the bottom of my hart thank you for derailing this thread. This was about AFK isk farming not about starting/making a proto favoured payout system/mode. That's a horrible sugestion that need and deserve to be voiced at the forums in a different thread. When reading down the opinions and sugestions on the AFK issue it boils down to 2 suggestions. First is : A voting system of some sort to kick ppl out Second : A low wp cap ( 50-300 have been suggested) to get a payout I like both however the first one I belive will take CCP to mutch time and rescorses to get that thing into place. ( plz feel free to coment ccp ) The second is a easy fix and should not be that hard to get in place. The criticism to this is that new players will have a hard time getting payouts at al if this is put into place. I respect that opinion however I don't agree with it. A low wp cap ( let's say 100wp ) will remove most AFK ISK farming of course there is ways to round this but the bigger the I obstacle the bigger efort. A low cap is also a statment "get your hands dirty" Also I state that it isn't the new players that try this game out that go strait for the mcc to sit and farm isk again that's scruby veterans that do that. Now we come full circle. I want I honest reflection over this 2 things from ccp and sir manboy. Then close this tread You've said the underlined part a few times. Just to make sure this is clear since there are always unfortunate language barriers here that can cloud things: The reason we say that a WP cap to get a payout is bad for new players is NOT because we think new players AFK. It's because new players are not very good at the game and if one gets zero payouts once they leave the academy, even if only for 1-2 battles, then they quit and we've lost another one. I don't share that opinion that a low wp to get payed throws any new players of. I belive it's quite the opposite it promotes game play. Coming in new to the game having 2-4 veteran AFK alt scrubs is far more toxic to the gaming experience than a low wp cap to get paid. Also the zero payout when under the cap ( whatever the number ) should be explained in th academy. Idk I don't c the problem with it I have come across so many new players and they al had no problem getting 50-100wp and with some help they did wp farm within the first day. Again having a bunch of scrub vets AFKing is far more toxic than not getting a payout for the start gaming experience overall. Best regards War never changes
Meisterjager Jagermeister Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 615	Posted - 2015.01.08 16:13:00 - [123] - Quote In regards to the voting system: NO! If I ever, even once get "voted out" of a match for ANY reason, I will BIOMASS, DELETE and NEVER play this game again! I will NEVER allow another fickle, butthurt manchild player to dictate whether or not I deserve to stay in match. AKA - StarVenger
Celus Ivara DUST University Ivy League 264	Posted - 2015.01.08 16:52:00 - [124] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: (isk killed + abs(isk lost)) times pool available times wp/total team wp times win bonus multiplier What is 'abs' in this formula? CCP Rattati wrote: that would make you less scared of earning more WP through losses Pardon? Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I am having trouble understanding what you mean by this. abs means negative is turned to positive. what I mean is that even if I go proto and lose a shitload of isk, if it makes my team win and I earn a lot of wp, I will still get a lot of isk back, instead of the 2-300k i get now. SirManBoy on the CPM is my counterpart in this "Win by any means necessary" initiative Word up! Victory is all that matters! Thrift be damned! Whatever it takes, whatever the cost...WIN, WIN, WIN!!! Dudes, I supes agree that we should always be encouraging players to try their hardest and seek victory. But if we don't build this right, instead of encouraging players to fight tooth-and-nail we'll be encouraging them to bail on any match that isn't going their way in the first 2 minutes of a fight. :\ Rewarding victory; Punishing failure; and Rewarding fighting tooth-and-nail, are each different things. And we will see very different behaviors from the player-base depending on what actions/results we specifically reward/punish. ISK/SP being largely based on WP encourages players to fight hard and support well. WPs earned should be a big component in any future reward system (at the *very least* in Pub matches).
Sir Snugglz Red Star. 1116	Posted - 2015.01.09 01:50:00 - [125] - Quote I'll throw another curve ball at you guys since clearly dont care about afking..... It's not about the isk... it's about the SP. Setting a 0 isk payout makes no difference as long as i get my SP. And if you are gonna remove the time in battle based SP might as well remove the Passive SP too because a player shouldn't get SP when they are not logged on the ps3 let alone dust. It's the equivalent to infantry trying to fix vehicles, none PC players trying to fix PC, and free to play players trying to fix AUR. You cannot fix what you do not understand. Telling an AFKer to stop afking is just as bad as telling a homosexual to become straight or worse telling someone not acting their race to act their race (insert color/nationalities where race is). Discrimination on a minority is wrong and you know it. At first it seemed you guys were trying to make the game a better place but this thread has turned into pages of bullying and discrimination. You guys dont care about AFKers only yourself. Not one post is about helping them out. Making them better players. You just want to get rid of them and punish them. Might as well just hang them or make a firing squad of red/blue berries where all 31 players get to shoot at afker for a min or two after every match. I'm sure that will teach them. Make an AI that slurs at them everytime they dont do anything and tells them how their lives have no meaning and they should just suicide their clones or better BIOMASS their character. While we are at it, add punishment for making mistakes too. Oh you didn't kill the guy that killed me? get 5 hour banned. Didn't defend a point, mercenary gets biomassed (and im talking about the character not the 1 clone). That other guy is using FOTM, perma banned all characters. This mentality is not gonna make things better. So next time you come up with another idea that rewards you and punishes another player, ask yourself how that idea is gonna affect the AFKer. How is that idea gonna make the game better for AFKers? Stop being selfish. It's not all about you. Other people play the game too. Also you forget that Afkers are players, not just some script of code that puts mercs in gm everytime. And the way you all treat afkers is unacceptable and shame on you. Just because you dont like what they do does not give you the right to bash on them. Have some consideration. Lastly, in respond to "Again having a bunch of scrub vets AFKing is far more toxic than not getting a payout for the start gaming experience overall. " There are more qq about scrub vets proto stomping than there is about afkers. Proto stomping q sych vets have literally made more than 10 players on the enemy side leave the match before it starts only to be filled by more randoms or the same players that left for them to leave again. That's what I consider being toxic to the game. I have not seen an afker have such a big inpact. -Pro AFKing LVL 5 -Luck is just one of my skills -Just because I make flying look easy doesn't mean it is
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 711	Posted - 2015.01.09 07:54:00 - [126] - Quote Snugglz It's al about AFK ISK farming. The char that does this are alts not a main char. If you think it's okey to come into a game set up a macro then go and do whatever else than play I humbuly and respectfully disagree with that opinion as I belive most players do. Trying to implement political or whatever it was about homo/minority's etc statments to justify AFK is ignorant if nothing else, I can just as easy say in a democracy the majority desides what the minoroty have to except. And we can go back and forth doing dose kind of statments, that's trolling. One thing about your post I can stand buy and respect that is when you say that you never had a problem with AFK and that you don't feel the impact from them. Now that's a personal opinion that you are in your full right to have. Even if I dont agre with it whatsoever I respect that. Best regards War never changes
Stile451 Red Star. 384	Posted - 2015.01.10 00:58:00 - [127] - Quote When I was AFKing it was only about hitting the SP cap while not burning out. ISK has never been an issue for me. I no longer AFK because I don't need the SP.
Sir Snugglz Red Star. 1119	Posted - 2015.01.10 03:45:00 - [128] - Quote Stile451 wrote: When I was AFKing it was only about hitting the SP cap while not burning out. ISK has never been an issue for me. I no longer AFK because I don't need the SP. Yeah. I think people dont know but there was already a nerf to AFKers in terms of payout. Average about 20k a loss and 40-50k a win. That's not even a proto suit. -Pro AFKing LVL 5 -Luck is just one of my skills -Just because I make flying look easy doesn't mean it is
Ramux PATAPON LORD-BRITISH Couedic Lancer And Shields 37	Posted - 2015.01.11 03:54:00 - [129] - Quote Hello everyone. I will show some tricks of AFK farming. Remember I don't do and rather hate. I just saw "how to farm isk" at twitter or 2ch (Japanese bulletin board). 1. Using rapid controllers. This is now the most prevalent way. They set some buttons (like triangle, circle, square buttons) to be pushed automatically. Their clones will automatically go to battlefield, automatically spawn some point, automatically move (like bending exercises you may have seen), and automatically get ISK. 2. Fixing R1 That is why most AFK players use Swarm Launchers in millitia suit (AV starter fit). First they go to battleground manually and fix R1 with scotch tape. As long as they hold R1, swarms lock on and they are not kicked. So they can farm ISK semi-automatically. 3, Fixing R3 and L3 sticks You see the players turn around one spot. This is similar to method 2. They bind R3 and L3 sticks with rubber bands. They are not kicked, too. Sorry for poor English. I hope this will be help to solve ISK farming! Translating DUST News into Japanese. @FPSholicsDiary
Sarcastic Dreamkiller Northwind Alliance Dark Taboo 176	Posted - 2015.01.11 04:27:00 - [130] - Quote has anyone taken "distance traveled" into consideration? it's harder to AFK if you can't stay in one spot. I'm a terrible player, don't ever let me into your squad.

deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 1749	Posted - 2015.01.11 04:29:00 - [131] - Quote Sarcastic Dreamkiller wrote: has anyone taken "distance traveled" into consideration? it's harder to AFK if you can't stay in one spot. Any anti-AFK system will just be a waste of time and get circumvented. Taking away the incentive to AFK is the only way to handle this. Passive SP for being in battle is a bad idea and so is passive ISK.
Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 124	Posted - 2015.01.11 06:28:00 - [132] - Quote Sarcastic Dreamkiller wrote: has anyone taken "distance traveled" into consideration? it's harder to AFK if you can't stay in one spot. Rubber bands allow players to spin in circles, therefore covering distance.


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