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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5632
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Posted - 2015.01.07 14:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:GM Archduke wrote:Any suggestions on how this could be addressed and solved?  If someone finishes a game with 0 kills 0 deaths and 0 wp then give them no sp and no isk simples .
This is the easiest and most simple solution. Scaled up from there. No sense in giving a guy with 25 WP very much either.
Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5632
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Posted - 2015.01.07 16:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Ahh FC roles, if only people played this game like a team based game and not like Call of Duty or King of the Hill.
That's why I strongly prefer PC and FW, pubbers are just too unorganized.
People don't play it that way because the game itself doesn't reward it. It took a long time, but the rewards have slowly eroded the desire for people to: 1) Be in a corp and pay tax, 2) squad up, 3) try or care about winning. If you couple that with the extremely powerful scouts for however long from 1.8 to 1.10 that rewarded solo gameplay and you have a situation where matches are overwhelmingly made up of solo players.
Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5632
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Posted - 2015.01.07 16:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:what I mean is that even if I go proto and lose a shitload of isk, if it makes my team win and I earn a lot of wp, I will still get a lot of isk back, instead of the 2-300k i get now. SirManBoy on the CPM is my counterpart in this "Win by any means necessary" initiative Won't this basically cause someone to run proto every. single. match. since they will recoup their losses by running proto? This feels like a "run proto or you aren't in any way competitive" initiative. trick is to figure out a better way, but you have to explain why proto running equals win in this case.
I don't believe that it does. I know I find myself switching to proto after it's clear that there are many on my team outside of my squad that aren't contributing much.
I don't start out in proto, but I like to win. If that means dumping some ISK on a match to have fun in my Dust session, so be it.
I think the MU system many times puts a veteran squad with quite a few "low MU" players. There are many times that it feels like it's 16 vs 6.
Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5632
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Posted - 2015.01.07 16:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:Not necessarily, because there would (I assume) still be a limit to the amount of ISK to give out. Also, since it would be tied to ISK destroyed, if you're just stomping starter fits there won't be much in that pool. I suppose it should be weighted more towards ISK destroyed, maybe put a multiplier of 0.75 or whatever on the ISK lost variable. I like the idea of the (ISK lost) being reduced in value. 0.75 is fair, but 0.6 feels more appropriate.
I don't like it being weighted in that direction because it would seem to me that it would only exacerbate the problem of people fighting in cheap gear all the time. In other words I think many players would use cheap suits to intentionally keep the ISK pool low.
I don't want to see 100% proto on the field, but it's not currently feasible for many people to profit in a domination or a skirmish using ADV suits. I recently fitted up a ADV Cal Assault with all ADV modules and it still came to a 40K ISK suit. You lose 6 suits and you've lost ISK in most cases.
It's not a popular viewpoint for whatever reason, but I believe that the issue in pubs is that so few are willing to use better gear. If they see FA or Red Star or whomever on the other side they automatically say "BPO fits" instead of stepping up the gear to combat the higher skilled players with ADV or better gear. If the answer to combating higher skilled players in higher level gear remains "run your cheap suits", then the cycle just continues.
Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5632
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Posted - 2015.01.07 16:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Raptor Princess wrote:I would be very much opposed to any kind of voting system for kicking a player - I've stopped being a sniper in FW most of the time because people on my own team come up behind me and kill me (and sometimes then message me complaining about me sniping). In pubs, the worst I put up with is someone coming up and standing in front of me or meleeing the back of my head til I move.
If people could kick team mates, I'd be worried it could be abused to kick players people don't want on their side, rather than only players who are AFK.
I think this is a bad idea as well.
I'm not a fan of snipers at all, 99% of them could be considered AFK by most definitions, but that's an issue for another thread.
Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5634
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Posted - 2015.01.07 16:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Raptor Princess wrote:If people could kick team mates, I'd be worried it could be abused to kick players people don't want on their side, rather than only players who are AFK. After someone is reported enough times, by enough players, a back-end system reviews the matches they attended. If the system sees multiple kills and deaths, war points gained, meters moved around the battlefield, kill assists, etc. then the player is not penalized.
Create a system where it grades on a curve. If you've gotten 10 positive ranks and 1 crappy one, the crappy one would be thrown out. I'm not a mathematical genius, but this would be a caveman's (me) way of describing it.
Although I think proper incentives would make AFK and non contributors more of an outlier than they currently are.
Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5635
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Posted - 2015.01.07 17:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
Raptor Princess wrote:Piraten Hovnoret wrote:serius that negative go positive is not he way to go in pub, if anything ad isk payout in FW buy that formula.
It does not address the problem with AFK abusse
I still state a realy low wp cap to get payed is the easiest and fastest way to go.
A 50-200wp cap to get any isk resolves it.
Agsain the ppl doing this are NOT the new players it's scruby veterans. A low cap like that does actully incurige game play also the 0-0-0 afkers don't want to play at al. It's a alt with the sole intent to isk farm if they have to move/drop links/etc to get a payout they won't even try. As it is now it's just to easy to AFK farm no solution vill resolve it 100% but if you make it HARDER less will do it. Quite simple realy
Let's be honest 50-200 wp is not hard to get even as a new player, and don't say a new player comes to the game to sit in the mcc farming Isk.
Sorry 4 my bad English
Oh and it's awsome that we at least have started to talk about this issue regardless of outcome.,
Best regards I've been playing for something like 7 months now. When I started, I aimed to get 100WP per match and felt awesome when I did. Ok, so maybe that's cause I'd never really played a fps before and didn't understand uplinks (and only used starter fits for about a month) but I can't be alone in that. Putting a WP cap *will* impact on the NPE for some people at least.
Getting negative feedback like no ISK or SP would at least provide some idea to a new player that they are doing it wrong.
To be honest this would be perfect for snipers. Sniping itself is a situational thing in most matches. I firmly believe new players should not feel as though sniping is a good entry level role. If a new player started out sniping and getting 25 to 200 WP continually they'd have to figure out that the good stuff (high payouts and SP) is where the action is.
Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5639
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Posted - 2015.01.07 18:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Raptor Princess wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Raptor Princess wrote:Piraten Hovnoret wrote:serius that negative go positive is not he way to go in pub, if anything ad isk payout in FW buy that formula.
It does not address the problem with AFK abusse
I still state a realy low wp cap to get payed is the easiest and fastest way to go.
A 50-200wp cap to get any isk resolves it.
Agsain the ppl doing this are NOT the new players it's scruby veterans. A low cap like that does actully incurige game play also the 0-0-0 afkers don't want to play at al. It's a alt with the sole intent to isk farm if they have to move/drop links/etc to get a payout they won't even try. As it is now it's just to easy to AFK farm no solution vill resolve it 100% but if you make it HARDER less will do it. Quite simple realy
Let's be honest 50-200 wp is not hard to get even as a new player, and don't say a new player comes to the game to sit in the mcc farming Isk.
Sorry 4 my bad English
Oh and it's awsome that we at least have started to talk about this issue regardless of outcome.,
Best regards I've been playing for something like 7 months now. When I started, I aimed to get 100WP per match and felt awesome when I did. Ok, so maybe that's cause I'd never really played a fps before and didn't understand uplinks (and only used starter fits for about a month) but I can't be alone in that. Putting a WP cap *will* impact on the NPE for some people at least. Getting negative feedback like no ISK or SP would at least provide some idea to a new player that they are doing it wrong. To be honest this would be perfect for snipers. Sniping itself is a situational thing in most matches. I firmly believe new players should not feel as though sniping is a good entry level role. If a new player started out sniping and getting 25 to 200 WP continually they'd have to figure out that the good stuff (high payouts and SP) is where the action is. Getting no ISK or SP would put a lot of people off playing. If you try, and put in time/effort, you should be rewarded, no matter how badly you do. I've been in top 5 with under 350 points before. Some top 10 players had under 100. And no player was AFK that I noticed. It was just a total stomp. Players were trying, dying and still gaining little or no WP. They should be rewarded. A new player fresh out the academy in a protostomp can't be expected to get hundreds of WP.
I do have sympathy for those situations. However I don't believe these would be as frequent if people were in corps and squading up. If people thought it was worth the effort to squad up and thought they'd get compensated properly for winning I think it would drastically change behavior (and results) in pub matches.
Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5639
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Posted - 2015.01.07 18:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
Also, Piraten WTF dude?
Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5649
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Posted - 2015.01.07 21:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Orber Gen wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Is there a way to gauge activity by WP earned through repping, hacking, killing, assists etc. vs being passive by only dropping links and AFKing, or simply AFKing?
If so, would it be possible to use an ISK multiplier based on "Active WP Earned" to reward players for at least trying even if they are losing?
It would allow you to reward an effort by people on a losing team while not encouraging AFKers and bad redline snipers. U such a LOL. ISK is not the issue. If someone thinks that AFK is about ISK - ur wrong. Because, if u want get AFK ISK u going to academy by ur alt  AFK is about SP and only SP. We have APEX, I have full line of amarrian APEX and I don't need proto lol Thank you for this excellent contribution to the discussion...
There were too many posts in your response to SMB's post above and I'm too stupid to edit quotes so I'm going to respond here.
Aside from covering ISK losses in PC losses nobody has ever gotten ISK from PC, during locking or not in our corp. SMB doesn't PC very often anyway.
He's actually just a huge fan and supporter of Dust. Nobody that wants to see Dust succeed can be happy with the payout system nor the way matches play out most of the time.
Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5649
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Posted - 2015.01.07 21:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
Orber Gen wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Thank you for this excellent contribution to the discussion... LOL. This "discussions" always about 0 WP = 0 ISK/SP. It's going around and around for 2 years now. U can't fix AFK if u don't put meaning to the game. And if someone think that CCP is just "FIX IT" by removing passive SP, u wrong again, a lot of AFK players pay for boosters and they waiting for EVE: Legion. Killing AFK = killing money flow So, the can FIX THE GAME, or they can shoot to the knee I don't care anymore. I have my ~100kk SP and It's end game, with that amount SP DUST can't give anything interesting.
This might be the dumbest post on these forums, ever.
If you'd rather be able to continue AFKing than actually playing matches that reward you for doing well then I'm not sure why I'm even responding.
But to think that fixing payouts would lead to LESS money for CCP makes me feel sorry for you.
Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5655
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Posted - 2015.01.07 21:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Orber Gen wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Thank you for this excellent contribution to the discussion... LOL. This "discussions" always about 0 WP = 0 ISK/SP. It's going around and around for 2 years now. U can't fix AFK if u don't put meaning to the game. And if someone think that CCP is just "FIX IT" by removing passive SP, u wrong again, a lot of AFK players pay for boosters and they waiting for EVE: Legion. Killing AFK = killing money flow So, the can FIX THE GAME, or they can shoot to the knee I don't care anymore. I have my ~100kk SP and It's end game, with that amount SP DUST can't give anything interesting. This might be the dumbest post on these forums, ever. If you'd rather be able to continue AFKing than actually playing matches that reward you for doing well then I'm not sure why I'm even responding. But to think that fixing payouts would lead to LESS money for CCP makes me feel sorry for you. Then why don't they fix payouts ? If they don't think low isk payouts promote aurum purchases why has the risk vs reward factor never been addressed in almost 3 years.
Because of the idiots that think raising payouts will only help the proto stompers. They never stop to realize that they'd be more effective against them if they were able to run ADV instead of cheap stuff.
Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
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