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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 11 post(s)
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6257	Posted - 2015.01.10 06:44:00 - [811] - Quote Wasn't the ttk problem for tanks in chrome related to damage mods? Use the 1.0 damage profiles or close to it with chrome hulls. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2705	Posted - 2015.01.10 07:16:00 - [812] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Wasn't the ttk problem for tanks in chrome related to damage mods? Use the 1.0 damage profiles or close to it with chrome hulls. Insane railgun damage as well as damage mods. Uprising 1.0 TTK was much better, because a tank wasn't wiped out in 2-3 rounds. Very experienced pilots could probably make a fight last 20 seconds or so. We need more concrete ideas for what Rattati wants to do. We need to see what he's looking at. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2689	Posted - 2015.01.10 07:56:00 - [813] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Wasn't the ttk problem for tanks in chrome related to damage mods? Use the 1.0 damage profiles or close to it with chrome hulls. Insane railgun damage as well as damage mods. Uprising 1.0 TTK was much better, because a tank wasn't wiped out in 2-3 rounds. Very experienced pilots could probably make a fight last 20 seconds or so. We need more concrete ideas for what Rattati wants to do. We need to see what he's looking at. To breakin, this. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2689	Posted - 2015.01.10 07:57:00 - [814] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Wasn't the ttk problem for tanks in chrome related to damage mods? Use the 1.0 damage profiles or close to it with chrome hulls. I would go with that, hell yes. Although, I still want a shotty blaster. Hell, looking at the T II blasters, it would make a hell of a lot more sense than what it was before (you know, scattered being a upgraded normal, compressed being a gimped normal, and stabilized actually varying, but fitting it was ****?). click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4342	Posted - 2015.01.10 08:37:00 - [815] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Pokey your premise will make tanks more powerful relative to AV/V interactions. Due to the nature of changes to primary AV over the last few iterations of DUST the gunnlogi is currently more powerful than the sagaris was relative to that interaction. As I said before, those numbers don't take AV into account at all, it was merely getting the relative balance between Shields and Armor. Values will of course be adjusted in accordance with AV values in the next pass. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6257	Posted - 2015.01.10 08:37:00 - [816] - Quote I'll grab the chrome spreadsheets and plug in numbers. I'm going to copy over the HAVs but I will have to modify the AV numbers to compensate for the loss of the weaponry skill, as well as heavy damage mods getting wacked in half. Swarms I'm not going to post back to chrome stats, because they would cause severe problems between AV/DS/ADS interactions. Someone needs to find a list copy of the chromosome vehicle skill tree. Without a supporting skill tree we'll be stuck with the same BS we have now only instead of having supertanked gunnlogis we will have AFGs spiking holes through marauders in two shots. The skill tree is critical. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6257	Posted - 2015.01.10 08:49:00 - [817] - Quote Meta lock would be a neat way to keep proto AV from casually rolling new HAV and dropship pilots for their lunch money. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 143	Posted - 2015.01.10 10:29:00 - [818] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Random scribbles, just doing this **** in passes. Assume 3 Main slots (Will be increased later, values adjusted accordingly) Assume Passive Armor Reps (Will be changed later, values adjusted accordingly) Assume Shield and Armor Hardeners are both 30% reduction Assume 180mm Plate is 50% more HP than 120mm Plate General Goals for this pass: -Maintain Gunnlogi eHP -Require Gunnlogi to fit Shield Recharger to reach same levels of shield regen -Maintain Madrugar Armor Repair rate -Match Base HP of Gunnlogi and Madrugar -Significantly increase Madrugar eHP so that it has ~20% more eHP than Gunnlogi, and Gunnlogi has ~20% regen rate. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J2n_K-I5tvkghAG6Hvjygy51YZuOCP50PAdKT_LoS-k/edit?usp=sharing Result is that Gunnlogi for the most part performs as it currently is, Madrugar has similar regen to before, but a lot more HP. Feel free to spaz out as per usual. Went over it, Gameplay wise impression: Sure f you assume hardeners will be on permanently, it may seem like Maddys and gunlogis have insane amounts of health, but by the time they are switched on damage is already taken. I'll see if i could help you put up the stats, but we ought to look at AV (infantry and vehicle) stats vs proposed vehicle stats to have a good impression of how OP or UP they may in the field. I'm thinking AV type / damage per shot vs Hadener off, hardner on, regen off , regen on for shield and armor. If we can get that spreadsheet on that figured out, then it may provide a good balancing counter point. Hey Thaddues you're good with numbers, you interested? I've gotten the AV numbers as they are now on my spreadsheet so I can work with them a bit easier. Just tell me what all information you'd like me to calculate (other than what is already on there)...and could someone please tell me what they think a good TTK for MBT v MBT and AV v MBT in seconds... I've also started adding a version of a vehicle skill tree influenced by the dropsuit skill tree and currently have the Gunnlogi at just above where it is performing now (in terms of Regen and EHP)...and will be adjusting slightly to try to bring it in line (when all skills to 5) with what we have now. Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6258	Posted - 2015.01.10 11:04:00 - [819] - Quote Bear in mind gunnlogis can be rigged to eat 5-6 proto forge shots while completely passive tanked. No matter HOW you tank a maddy you cap out at 4 unless the forge gunner has no proficiency or he is a complete idiot. I honestly think we should move the sica and soma designator to standard, make the maddy and gunnlogi main battle tanks and sidegrade the marauder and enforcer with those two as the middle ground even with a move back towards chrome. HAVs are punishing enough that we only need one unbonused "frame." EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1956	Posted - 2015.01.10 11:50:00 - [820] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Bear in mind gunnlogis can be rigged to eat 5-6 proto forge shots while completely passive tanked. No matter HOW you tank a maddy you cap out at 4 unless the forge gunner has no proficiency or he is a complete idiot. I honestly think we should move the sica and soma designator to standard, make the maddy and gunnlogi main battle tanks and sidegrade the marauder and enforcer with those two as the middle ground even with a move back towards chrome. HAVs are punishing enough that we only need one unbonused "frame." The biggest problem with moving sica and so mad to std effectively removing Malitia tanks and making it harder for newer player who might be inclined towards tanking . Proud Caldari purist . Rank 10 colonel omiwarrior. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.

pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1956	Posted - 2015.01.10 11:54:00 - [821] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I'll grab the chrome spreadsheets and plug in numbers. I'm going to copy over the HAVs but I will have to modify the AV numbers to compensate for the loss of the weaponry skill, as well as heavy damage mods getting wacked in half. I'm not going to bother with worrying about stacking penalty DPS loss (those penalties were introduced very late in the game and I didn't notice a significant TTK change. Swarms I'm not going to post back to chrome stats, because they would cause severe problems between AV/DS/ADS interactions. Someone needs to find a list copy of the chromosome vehicle skill tree. Without a supporting skill tree we'll be stuck with the same BS we have now only instead of having supertanked gunnlogis we will have AFGs spiking holes through marauders in two shots. The skill tree is critical. I'm going to modify dropships by using resistances to keep them from getting exterminated by the numbers like they did in chrome. If anyone has a better idea on how to keep them buffed to where AV won't go bact to casually one and two shotting them I am all ears. Edit: as a side note HAVs were sped up sharply in uprising. How much? Because that will need to be reverted some or it will bugger up the balance. Although I think keeping the speed on the maddy/gunnlogi/soma/sica might be a good idea at least in part. Those vehicles were basically rolling coffins at slower movement rates, but they served to justify the existence of lower tier AV. I think you hit the nail on the head there when you mention the skill tree . I think pilots who invest sp heavily into tanks shouldbe rewarded with skill that apply passive bonuses tto their hulls like the shield resistance skill we got at the start of uprising that gave us a passive 25% resistance to av. We nneed more incentives to skill up to the max other than just unlocking gear . Proud Caldari purist . Rank 10 colonel omiwarrior. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 690	Posted - 2015.01.10 11:55:00 - [822] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Random scribbles, just doing this **** in passes. Assume 3 Main slots (Will be increased later, values adjusted accordingly) Assume Passive Armor Reps (Will be changed later, values adjusted accordingly) Assume Shield and Armor Hardeners are both 30% reduction Assume 180mm Plate is 50% more HP than 120mm Plate General Goals for this pass: -Maintain Gunnlogi eHP -Require Gunnlogi to fit Shield Recharger to reach same levels of shield regen -Maintain Madrugar Armor Repair rate -Match Base HP of Gunnlogi and Madrugar -Significantly increase Madrugar eHP so that it has ~20% more eHP than Gunnlogi, and Gunnlogi has ~20% regen rate. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J2n_K-I5tvkghAG6Hvjygy51YZuOCP50PAdKT_LoS-k/edit?usp=sharing Result is that Gunnlogi for the most part performs as it currently is, Madrugar has similar regen to before, but a lot more HP. Feel free to spaz out as per usual. Went over it, Gameplay wise impression: Sure f you assume hardeners will be on permanently, it may seem like Maddys and gunlogis have insane amounts of health, but by the time they are switched on damage is already taken. I'll see if i could help you put up the stats, but we ought to look at AV (infantry and vehicle) stats vs proposed vehicle stats to have a good impression of how OP or UP they may in the field. I'm thinking AV type / damage per shot vs Hadener off, hardner on, regen off , regen on for shield and armor. If we can get that spreadsheet on that figured out, then it may provide a good balancing counter point. Hey Thaddues you're good with numbers, you interested? I've gotten the AV numbers as they are now on my spreadsheet so I can work with them a bit easier. Just tell me what all information you'd like me to calculate (other than what is already on there)...and could someone please tell me what they think a good TTK for MBT v MBT and AV v MBT in seconds... I've also started adding a version of a vehicle skill tree influenced by the dropsuit skill tree and currently have the Gunnlogi at just above where it is performing now (in terms of Regen and EHP)...and will be adjusting slightly to try to bring it in line (when all skills to 5) with what we have now. I dont think seconds is the apppropiate standard AV fights though they seem instantaneous has realtivley long engagement time. I think we should focus on number of shots to kill a tank, and we have to stay with current AV values. To make things a bit more complicated you're going to have to theory craft alot of fits, but once you have the formula down (i dont even math bros) then its just about punching in numbers and excell does the rest. i.e Swarms vs Armor - 1 volley does X amount of damage vs Madrugar with 3 slots - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 1 plate + 1 hardener + 1 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 2 plates 1 hardener 0 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 3 plates 0 hardener 0 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 1 plate 2 hardener 0 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 0 plate 3 hardener 0 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 1 plate 0 hardener 2 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 0 plate 2 hardener 1 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 0 plate 1 hardener 2 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 0 plate 0 hardener 3 repper it takes n shots to kill it something like that Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 144	Posted - 2015.01.10 12:11:00 - [823] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Random scribbles, just doing this **** in passes. Assume 3 Main slots (Will be increased later, values adjusted accordingly) Assume Passive Armor Reps (Will be changed later, values adjusted accordingly) Assume Shield and Armor Hardeners are both 30% reduction Assume 180mm Plate is 50% more HP than 120mm Plate General Goals for this pass: -Maintain Gunnlogi eHP -Require Gunnlogi to fit Shield Recharger to reach same levels of shield regen -Maintain Madrugar Armor Repair rate -Match Base HP of Gunnlogi and Madrugar -Significantly increase Madrugar eHP so that it has ~20% more eHP than Gunnlogi, and Gunnlogi has ~20% regen rate. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J2n_K-I5tvkghAG6Hvjygy51YZuOCP50PAdKT_LoS-k/edit?usp=sharing Result is that Gunnlogi for the most part performs as it currently is, Madrugar has similar regen to before, but a lot more HP. Feel free to spaz out as per usual. Went over it, Gameplay wise impression: Sure f you assume hardeners will be on permanently, it may seem like Maddys and gunlogis have insane amounts of health, but by the time they are switched on damage is already taken. I'll see if i could help you put up the stats, but we ought to look at AV (infantry and vehicle) stats vs proposed vehicle stats to have a good impression of how OP or UP they may in the field. I'm thinking AV type / damage per shot vs Hadener off, hardner on, regen off , regen on for shield and armor. If we can get that spreadsheet on that figured out, then it may provide a good balancing counter point. Hey Thaddues you're good with numbers, you interested? I've gotten the AV numbers as they are now on my spreadsheet so I can work with them a bit easier. Just tell me what all information you'd like me to calculate (other than what is already on there)...and could someone please tell me what they think a good TTK for MBT v MBT and AV v MBT in seconds... I've also started adding a version of a vehicle skill tree influenced by the dropsuit skill tree and currently have the Gunnlogi at just above where it is performing now (in terms of Regen and EHP)...and will be adjusting slightly to try to bring it in line (when all skills to 5) with what we have now. I dont think seconds is the apppropiate standard AV fights though they seem instantaneous has realtivley long engagement time. I think we should focus on number of shots to kill a tank, and we have to stay with current AV values. To make things a bit more complicated you're going to have to theory craft alot of fits, but once you have the formula down (i dont even math bros) then its just about punching in numbers and excell does the rest. i.e Swarms vs Armor - 1 volley does X amount of damage vs Madrugar with 3 slots - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 1 plate + 1 hardener + 1 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 2 plates 1 hardener 0 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 3 plates 0 hardener 0 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 1 plate 2 hardener 0 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 0 plate 3 hardener 0 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 1 plate 0 hardener 2 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 0 plate 2 hardener 1 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 0 plate 1 hardener 2 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 0 plate 0 hardener 3 repper it takes n shots to kill it something like that Just added AV Grenades...I forgot them (Should I add Flux Grenades as well?) Want me to use the current 2/3? My currently proposed 3/3? and should I account for possible utility modules and such? (mCRUs, Scanners, Nitro etc?) (I've got a bunch of modules I still have to add to the vehicle modules page first, so I'll have to finish that first) Once I have that done I'll start theory-crafting the possible fits for the Maddy (hopefully by lunchtime), then I'll try the same for the Gunnlogi...then the other two proposed racial HAVs (should be easier once I have the two others done) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 400	Posted - 2015.01.10 12:37:00 - [824] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Random scribbles, just doing this **** in passes. Assume 3 Main slots (Will be increased later, values adjusted accordingly) Assume Passive Armor Reps (Will be changed later, values adjusted accordingly) Assume Shield and Armor Hardeners are both 30% reduction Assume 180mm Plate is 50% more HP than 120mm Plate General Goals for this pass: -Maintain Gunnlogi eHP -Require Gunnlogi to fit Shield Recharger to reach same levels of shield regen -Maintain Madrugar Armor Repair rate -Match Base HP of Gunnlogi and Madrugar -Significantly increase Madrugar eHP so that it has ~20% more eHP than Gunnlogi, and Gunnlogi has ~20% regen rate. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J2n_K-I5tvkghAG6Hvjygy51YZuOCP50PAdKT_LoS-k/edit?usp=sharing Result is that Gunnlogi for the most part performs as it currently is, Madrugar has similar regen to before, but a lot more HP. Feel free to spaz out as per usual. 1. 3 main slots is still bad 2. 180plate used to offer 3200 armor or around that i believe 3. Heavy shield extender isnt even half of the plat in HP 4. When and if more AV shield weapons are added Gunlogi will be worse off
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6259	Posted - 2015.01.10 13:04:00 - [825] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Bear in mind gunnlogis can be rigged to eat 5-6 proto forge shots while completely passive tanked. No matter HOW you tank a maddy you cap out at 4 unless the forge gunner has no proficiency or he is a complete idiot. I honestly think we should move the sica and soma designator to standard, make the maddy and gunnlogi main battle tanks and sidegrade the marauder and enforcer with those two as the middle ground even with a move back towards chrome. HAVs are punishing enough that we only need one unbonused "frame." The biggest problem with moving sica and so mad to std effectively removing Malitia tanks and making it harder for newer player who might be inclined towards tanking . Not if you drop the basic HAV skill tied solely to vehicle operation. 1 point in vehicle operation opens up basic vehicles across the board then branches into MBT, enforcer and marauder. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 144	Posted - 2015.01.10 13:10:00 - [826] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Bear in mind gunnlogis can be rigged to eat 5-6 proto forge shots while completely passive tanked. No matter HOW you tank a maddy you cap out at 4 unless the forge gunner has no proficiency or he is a complete idiot. I honestly think we should move the sica and soma designator to standard, make the maddy and gunnlogi main battle tanks and sidegrade the marauder and enforcer with those two as the middle ground even with a move back towards chrome. HAVs are punishing enough that we only need one unbonused "frame." The biggest problem with moving sica and so mad to std effectively removing Malitia tanks and making it harder for newer player who might be inclined towards tanking . Not if you drop the basic HAV skill tied solely to vehicle operation. 1 point in vehicle operation opens up basic vehicles across the board then branches into MBT, enforcer and marauder. Or the HAV skill gains a bonus that only effects the MBTs (and still unlocks the side-grade specializations) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6259	Posted - 2015.01.10 13:11:00 - [827] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Random scribbles, just doing this **** in passes. Assume 3 Main slots (Will be increased later, values adjusted accordingly) Assume Passive Armor Reps (Will be changed later, values adjusted accordingly) Assume Shield and Armor Hardeners are both 30% reduction Assume 180mm Plate is 50% more HP than 120mm Plate General Goals for this pass: -Maintain Gunnlogi eHP -Require Gunnlogi to fit Shield Recharger to reach same levels of shield regen -Maintain Madrugar Armor Repair rate -Match Base HP of Gunnlogi and Madrugar -Significantly increase Madrugar eHP so that it has ~20% more eHP than Gunnlogi, and Gunnlogi has ~20% regen rate. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J2n_K-I5tvkghAG6Hvjygy51YZuOCP50PAdKT_LoS-k/edit?usp=sharing Result is that Gunnlogi for the most part performs as it currently is, Madrugar has similar regen to before, but a lot more HP. Feel free to spaz out as per usual. Went over it, Gameplay wise impression: Sure f you assume hardeners will be on permanently, it may seem like Maddys and gunlogis have insane amounts of health, but by the time they are switched on damage is already taken. I'll see if i could help you put up the stats, but we ought to look at AV (infantry and vehicle) stats vs proposed vehicle stats to have a good impression of how OP or UP they may in the field. I'm thinking AV type / damage per shot vs Hadener off, hardner on, regen off , regen on for shield and armor. If we can get that spreadsheet on that figured out, then it may provide a good balancing counter point. Hey Thaddues you're good with numbers, you interested? I've gotten the AV numbers as they are now on my spreadsheet so I can work with them a bit easier. Just tell me what all information you'd like me to calculate (other than what is already on there)...and could someone please tell me what they think a good TTK for MBT v MBT and AV v MBT in seconds... I've also started adding a version of a vehicle skill tree influenced by the dropsuit skill tree and currently have the Gunnlogi at just above where it is performing now (in terms of Regen and EHP)...and will be adjusting slightly to try to bring it in line (when all skills to 5) with what we have now. I dont think seconds is the apppropiate standard AV fights though they seem instantaneous has realtivley long engagement time. I think we should focus on number of shots to kill a tank, and we have to stay with current AV values. To make things a bit more complicated you're going to have to theory craft alot of fits, but once you have the formula down (i dont even math bros) then its just about punching in numbers and excell does the rest. i.e Swarms vs Armor - 1 volley does X amount of damage vs Madrugar with 3 slots - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 1 plate + 1 hardener + 1 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 2 plates 1 hardener 0 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 3 plates 0 hardener 0 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 1 plate 2 hardener 0 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 0 plate 3 hardener 0 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 1 plate 0 hardener 2 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 0 plate 2 hardener 1 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 0 plate 1 hardener 2 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 0 plate 0 hardener 3 repper it takes n shots to kill it something like that You build the HAVs then you adjust the AV to reasonable counter. Doing it by building the HAVs to the counter will result in too much native homogenization. If you do it the way you propose it maintains skill irrelevance because you're basing your base stats off say, a forge gun attack pattern. It only works doing it that way on paper. But because of the fiting customization you create more work because you have to anticipate all of the variables. You cannot do this. You haveto take the vehicle then balance the counter to a reasonable margin between extremes of efficacy. I use shots to kill as a metric but I oversimplify the math I'm doing in my head. I don't have the patience to give math lessons. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 690	Posted - 2015.01.10 13:43:00 - [828] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Just added AV Grenades...I forgot them (Should I add Flux Grenades as well?) Want me to use the current 2/3? My currently proposed 3/3? and should I account for possible utility modules and such? (mCRUs, Scanners, Nitro etc?) (I've got a bunch of modules I still have to add to the vehicle modules page first, so I'll have to finish that first) Once I have that done I'll start theory-crafting the possible fits for the Maddy (hopefully by lunchtime), then I'll try the same for the Gunnlogi...then the other two proposed racial HAVs (should be easier once I have the two others done) I think you should use the current vehicle and module stats first, and then make adjustments from that. As far as we know, these are not going to change anytime soon, and we need to have a solid foundation to begin with. Current vahicle stats and Av stats is it. Its not something that you should take on by yourself, but if we can get some other guys interested to put up the various possible fits stats for eHP (looking at you tankers). This way if you add say 1 more slot for the enforcer for example, you only have to do the additional math for one slot. Also, Breaking stuff, the Swarms were just an example, the real pain in the ass is going to be getting the stats for all AV that can damage vehicles, including small turrets for dropship, and large turrets. Once we have this sort of foundation, theory crafting the Enforcers and Marudars etc can be measured using real data. We can all see the effects of adding an extra harderner and what it means for AV of all types, using most of our real gameplay experience we can judge whether an extra say 2 shots with a specific forge gun is going to feel OP or UP. Swarmers can comment on how many extra volleys they think it should require to bring various maruader tank fits, Pilots can see how many extra small rail rounds they might need, and other tankers will know how much fire power they will need to bring a new tank down. I think its better than random stabs in the dark we are working with now. There are some very good ideas, but they are being based on what people want tanks to be rather than adjusting based on what we have solidly infront of us. Forget new modules, or turrets, or racial vehicles that we have no clue whether or not they are going to be implemntedin the near future. Frankly we need to have a spreadsheet based on the current dust reality that says here is a tank fit, it can have this much ehp and requires this to destroy it in this many shots. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6260	Posted - 2015.01.10 14:09:00 - [829] - Quote Let's work both angles. I'll work on resurrecting the chrome stuff you guys run the other angle. Multiple reasonable proposals are always better than all eggs in one basket. So while I may disagree with your approach, don't think I'm going to try and roadblock you. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1956	Posted - 2015.01.10 15:30:00 - [830] - Quote If you guys are working on what sort of fits both shield and armour tankers used to run before the changes made through uprising then I'd recommend searching uo void echos old tank guides in the rookie training grounds void had posted quitea bit about armour tanks and I had posted several fits and tactics for shielded hav's . Just so you guys have some examples of what was viable /fun to use . I miss being able to talk for ages about different fits for different purposes . Proud Caldari purist . Rank 10 colonel omiwarrior. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.

Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 752	Posted - 2015.01.10 15:30:00 - [831] - Quote I would like to know why LLAV's and MAV are beeing noted in the spreadsheet. Is this a sign that we are going to get our 3rd ground vehicle category? basically a dropship with wheels on the ground. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6261	Posted - 2015.01.10 15:33:00 - [832] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: I would like to know why LLAV's and MAV are beeing noted in the spreadsheet. Is this a sign that we are going to get our 3rd ground vehicle category? basically a dropship with wheels on the ground. Rattati's been interested in reintroducing logistics vehicles for a while. Honestly I'm hoping he chooses to transfer the repair functions to the turret rather than the ungodly weird target-lock-proximity thing. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6261	Posted - 2015.01.10 15:35:00 - [833] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: If you guys are working on what sort of fits both shield and armour tankers used to run before the changes made through uprising then I'd recommend searching uo void echos old tank guides in the rookie training grounds void had posted quitea bit about armour tanks and I had posted several fits and tactics for shielded hav's . Just so you guys have some examples of what was viable /fun to use . I miss being able to talk for ages about different fits for different purposes . I have a hull, module and turret list for chromosome with basic statistics. I'm trying to compile them together into something coherent. I also have the old AV weapon stats as well. If someone can miracle up the propulsion and miscellaneous mod stats or the chromosome vehicle skill tree you'll be my heroes for at least five minutes, or until I stop caring, whichever comes sooner. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1956	Posted - 2015.01.10 15:39:00 - [834] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: pegasis prime wrote: If you guys are working on what sort of fits both shield and armour tankers used to run before the changes made through uprising then I'd recommend searching uo void echos old tank guides in the rookie training grounds void had posted quitea bit about armour tanks and I had posted several fits and tactics for shielded hav's . Just so you guys have some examples of what was viable /fun to use . I miss being able to talk for ages about different fits for different purposes . I have a hull, module and turret list for chromosome with basic statistics. I'm trying to compile them together into something coherent. I also have the old AV weapon stats as well. If someone can miracle up the propulsion and miscellaneous mod stats or the chromosome vehicle skill tree you'll be my heroes for at least five minutes, or until I stop caring, whichever comes sooner. The problem you will have with the chrome skill trees is the drop suit ones like armour upgrades not only applied to drop suits but vehicles as well . They didn'tsseparate the skill tress properly till uprising Proud Caldari purist . Rank 10 colonel omiwarrior. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6261	Posted - 2015.01.10 15:43:00 - [835] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: pegasis prime wrote: If you guys are working on what sort of fits both shield and armour tankers used to run before the changes made through uprising then I'd recommend searching uo void echos old tank guides in the rookie training grounds void had posted quitea bit about armour tanks and I had posted several fits and tactics for shielded hav's . Just so you guys have some examples of what was viable /fun to use . I miss being able to talk for ages about different fits for different purposes . I have a hull, module and turret list for chromosome with basic statistics. I'm trying to compile them together into something coherent. I also have the old AV weapon stats as well. If someone can miracle up the propulsion and miscellaneous mod stats or the chromosome vehicle skill tree you'll be my heroes for at least five minutes, or until I stop caring, whichever comes sooner. The problem you will have with the chrome skill trees is the drop suit ones like armour upgrades not only applied to drop suits but vehicles as well . They didn'tsseparate the skill tress properly till uprising I believe Rattati and our HAV drivers are intelligent enough in combination to fix this if it is a problem. But I have a funny feeling that problem is why the skill tree for vehicles is chock full of "dead" skills with no bonuses if that's true. But I'd rather deal with the re-introduction of the problem and adjusting to compensate than leaving a skill tree that is solely for unlocks. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 752	Posted - 2015.01.10 15:47:00 - [836] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Bright Cloud wrote: I would like to know why LLAV's and MAV are beeing noted in the spreadsheet. Is this a sign that we are going to get our 3rd ground vehicle category? basically a dropship with wheels on the ground. Rattati's been interested in reintroducing logistics vehicles for a while. Honestly I'm hoping he chooses to transfer the repair functions to the turret rather than the ungodly weird target-lock-proximity thing. to be honest they should just add a big nanohive alike field that reps every 1 in its proximity of it. Ya know basically give it a module that gets on cooldown after a while but works like a triage hive. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6261	Posted - 2015.01.10 15:47:00 - [837] - Quote BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! I f*cking found it. Skill list located. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6261	Posted - 2015.01.10 17:18:00 - [838] - Quote Good lord you guys weren't kidding about the compressed blaster in chrome. In exchange for a gain/loss of 2-7 damage per MINUTE they are tacked with a 70% heat increase. My brain just broke. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 404	Posted - 2015.01.10 18:19:00 - [839] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Good lord you guys weren't kidding about the compressed blaster in chrome. In exchange for a gain/loss of 2-7 damage per MINUTE they are tacked with a 70% heat increase. My brain just broke. Back on topic, and on a more serious note: the following were marauder bonuses. Sagaris 4% to Heavy Missile turret damage per level Surya 4% to heavy blaster turret damage per level. Given that bringing enforcers back is part of the initiative, do we want to make the mads more defensively aspected? I'd like to give the madrugar and Gunnlogi a bonus, and keep them somewhere between enforcers and marauders in tankability and damage output. Main Battle Tanks rather than specialist. I also want to make Enforcers cheap, destructive and relatively fragile. does anyone have any reasonable suggestions for bonusing while I try to sort through all of this crap I'm looking at? 1. Its easier if you just put up the spreadsheet with the chrome numbers up 2. Marauders/Enforcers similar bonuses except Enforcer has extra skill, if rattati wants tiger tanks then marauders need more defence 3. MBT need a bonus which is seperate but useful in its own right, if its not defensive (marauders) or offensive (enforcers) then it either gets no bonus or it needs something unqiue 4. Enforcers (TD) were only fragile from the sides and the back, generally the gun was in a fixed position with a little bit of wiggle room, other TD has a turret which moved slow but the entire hull seemed weaker but some had speed to make up for that 4a. If they are cheap and can 2-3 shot a vehicle then we may have the sica with 2 double damage mods back which wasnt fun so we end up with lots of TD and no other tanks because they cant survive but are spammable like the sica 4b. If they are too fragile then they are useless aka the old enforcers which lost to basic HAVs
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6263	Posted - 2015.01.10 18:31:00 - [840] - Quote 1. Its easier if you just put up the spreadsheet with the chrome numbers up Going to. combining the spreadsheets and cleaning them up, to include all vehicle, module (that I could find) and AV values. I'm redoing the layout so it's all in one place. and skills, which have to be translated to the current skill tree because wheel. reinventing and reasons. 2. Marauders/Enforcers similar bonuses except Enforcer has extra skill, if rattati wants tiger tanks then marauders need more defence That was my thought, but marauders are going to be beast anyway. But keeping the damage bonus makes enforcers pointless. 3. MBT need a bonus which is seperate but useful in its own right, if its not defensive (marauders) or offensive (enforcers) then it either gets no bonus or it needs something unqiue Again, right there with you. 4. Enforcers (TD) were only fragile from the sides and the back, generally the gun was in a fixed position with a little bit of wiggle room, other TD has a turret which moved slow but the entire hull seemed weaker but some had speed to make up for that since hit locations aren't on the table I'm not going to bother screwing with that 4a. If they are cheap and can 2-3 shot a vehicle then we may have the sica with 2 double damage mods back which wasnt fun so we end up with lots of TD and no other tanks because they cant survive but are spammable like the sica I think we can come up with better values than that. My thought on viable enforcers would be to scale the models down 25% to give them a lower profile and make them harder to hit, and make them the fast ones. 4b. If they are too fragile then they are useless aka the old enforcers which lost to basic HAVs See 4a. Trade raw defense for maneuverability and tracking. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.



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