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Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5987	Posted - 2014.12.25 09:03:00 - [511] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: True Adamance wrote: Lost faith in this initiative. Thanks for trying CCP Rattati. It's been stated. All the good pilots are long gone after waiting nearly a year for CCP to fix vehicles and they never did. Now that CCP shows interest everyone left is too bitter to come to an unanimous decision. Doesn't matter as none of the best pilots are around anymore to express their opinions and they're the ones who should be listened to. None? Yep. He said none. I agree with him. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game RUST415 1789	Posted - 2014.12.25 13:16:00 - [512] - Quote You have made this ideological circle of life with these 3 tank types but they are never going to be used that way All Hail Legion
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 288	Posted - 2014.12.25 15:23:00 - [513] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: True Adamance wrote: Lost faith in this initiative. Thanks for trying CCP Rattati. It's been stated. All the good pilots are long gone after waiting nearly a year for CCP to fix vehicles and they never did. Now that CCP shows interest everyone left is too bitter to come to an unanimous decision. Doesn't matter as none of the best pilots are around anymore to express their opinions and they're the ones who should be listened to. None? 1. Barely anyone i recognize from the very 1st days of PC in Uprising except you and maybe a few others in this thread and if you could hang with the best in the old PC days you were good 2. Where are the likes of Jason Pearson/Covert Clay/Zitro/Slap/Aldin/Lecutch/Mary/Takahiro Kashuken/Mav/Anyone from GAC and many more that i will have missed out? They are not here and have been replaced by 1.7 vehicle users who have no idea what the old days were like or infantry who are afraid of having to deal with vehicles again which have some teeth 3. I will wait to see what CCP does - Easiest way is to revert back to Chrome/Uprising days and add in the new SL/AV nade numbers while vehicles get alot more variety and skills/modules and skill bonuses back but that ship has sailed but i feel its what the pilots of old would want, more variety and true sense of a playstyle worth skilling into, all they need is a sense of purpose on the battllefield but in the old PC days the pilots did to a small extent which lead to HAV v HAV fights a plenty
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2617	Posted - 2014.12.25 17:54:00 - [514] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: True Adamance wrote: Lost faith in this initiative. Thanks for trying CCP Rattati. It's been stated. All the good pilots are long gone after waiting nearly a year for CCP to fix vehicles and they never did. Now that CCP shows interest everyone left is too bitter to come to an unanimous decision. Doesn't matter as none of the best pilots are around anymore to express their opinions and they're the ones who should be listened to. None? Yep. He said none. I agree with him. Have you gone against more than just MLT tanks? How about STD hulls with better than MLT turrets? You literally have no idea what it's like. Get in a tank, and don't jump out when you're on fire. Have you ever even been in a PC, with pilot harassing a team, unable to be destroyed by your team's tanks? That's a damn good pilot right there. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5996	Posted - 2014.12.25 18:46:00 - [515] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: True Adamance wrote: Lost faith in this initiative. Thanks for trying CCP Rattati. It's been stated. All the good pilots are long gone after waiting nearly a year for CCP to fix vehicles and they never did. Now that CCP shows interest everyone left is too bitter to come to an unanimous decision. Doesn't matter as none of the best pilots are around anymore to express their opinions and they're the ones who should be listened to. None? Yep. He said none. I agree with him. Have you gone against more than just MLT tanks? How about STD hulls with better than MLT turrets? You literally have no idea what it's like. Get in a tank, and don't jump out when you're on fire. Have you ever even been in a PC, with pilot harassing a team, unable to be destroyed by your team's tanks? That's a damn good pilot right there. My alt is a maddy pilot. So yes I have. Keep whining. Yes I do know what it's like. Keep whining. Yes I have. I'm fully conversant in the million ways madrugars die in a fire. Keep whining. Spkr you never listen, and the fact that you're irrationally consistent comforts me. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 1268	Posted - 2014.12.26 08:26:00 - [516] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Have you gone against more than just MLT tanks? How about STD hulls with better than MLT turrets? You literally have no idea what it's like. Get in a tank, and don't jump out when you're on fire. Have you ever even been in a PC, with pilot harassing a team, unable to be destroyed by your team's tanks? That's a damn good pilot right there. This hasn't existed in months. STD hulls with max skills and modules are the same as militia because ~balance~. Don't kid yourself. Dual tanking is for bad players. Come play a better game.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 6000	Posted - 2014.12.26 08:37:00 - [517] - Quote This line of accusative BS does not help Rattati figure out how to bring back mads and enforcers. He's making them sidegrades not direct upgrades. We can **** and moan about it or we can provide useful feedback that helps him make them as awesome as possible within the constraints. Complaining that it's not perfectly in line with your personal vision is useless. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 6001	Posted - 2014.12.26 08:50:00 - [518] - Quote Looks like I'll be spending quality time on my HAV pilot for a bit trying to get a feel for this stuff again. Can anyone find the chromosome spreadsheets for HAVs? I think fitting-centric HAVs is the best way to balance them. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 297	Posted - 2014.12.26 14:53:00 - [519] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: This line of accusative BS does not help Rattati figure out how to bring back mads and enforcers. He's making them sidegrades not direct upgrades. We can **** and moan about it or we can provide useful feedback that helps him make them as awesome as possible within the constraints. Complaining that it's not perfectly in line with your personal vision is useless. 1. Vehicles are not like dropsuits 2. Sidegrades are what dropsuits do have but if you compare a sentinal to a basic heavy you will take the sentinal every time for the bonus 3. Vehicles are more expensive in SP and ISK, to make a basic HAV its far more expenisve than your basic dropsuit so no one is going to skill into something that is worse than what we have ie old enforcers in Uprising 4. Vehicles are tiercided - That means a BASIC HAV which it is has to have the ability to stand upto PROTO AV, old Chrome/Uprising were able to stand upto PROTO AV because we had core skills/more module variety and a better slot layout - The old pilots are still trying to get across this core message that players like you still do not understand and will never understand because you never tanked through the old days 5. Personal Vision is actually Chrome/Uprising build - It is essentially what CCP made and did right until they decided to delete it all - The return to Chrome/Uprising would be welcome by pilots, it may even bring a few of the old pilots back who have long gone and left this game whos voices and input is greatly missed and instead is replaced with infantry and new pilots who never piloted in the good ol days of Chrome/Uprising
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 333	Posted - 2014.12.26 14:54:00 - [520] - Quote Here's an idea: Add in new tanks Add in new ads variation Add in logi lavs Then see what needs tweaking. "If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014

Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2623	Posted - 2014.12.26 16:22:00 - [521] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: This line of accusative BS does not help Rattati figure out how to bring back mads and enforcers. He's making them sidegrades not direct upgrades. We can **** and moan about it or we can provide useful feedback that helps him make them as awesome as possible within the constraints. Complaining that it's not perfectly in line with your personal vision is useless. The dropsuit sidegrades ARE upgrades. The commando is all around better than the basic heavy frame, assault all around better than the basic medium frame, etc. The Gunnlogi and Madrugar are our basic heavy frame, not MLT frames. If you've never been a pilot, why are you here? I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 135	Posted - 2014.12.26 21:00:00 - [522] - Quote Here are the numbers that I've come up with thus far: Assumptions: The Gunnlogi is currently in a good place for tanks in terms of brick tanking The Gunnlogi's Base Regeneration is far too high The Madrugar is currently not viable because of missing fitting, and missing items The Dropsuit Specializations are Sidegrades (Upgrades with drawbacks) Therefore I'm starting with the shield tanks to generate stats from, and going with a recharge time concept, and currently setting it at 60 seconds for HAVs. I generated the stats by looking at the Ratios of different stats in the given drop-suit (or listed ship) line (assuming base). I also added a shield regeneration bonus (flat, not percentage) to the shield extenders in order to maintain a 60 second recharge time for HAVs (and assumed a 30 second recharge time for LAVs). The Madrugar PGU and CPU are based on exchanging 25% CPU for 25% PGU. I am hoping that if they implement a shield recharge solution similar to what I've suggested, that it allows shield recharge % mods to apply after the flat modifications from shield extenders. Link What do ya'll think? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 700	Posted - 2014.12.26 21:58:00 - [523] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Here are the numbers that I've come up with thus far: Assumptions: The Gunnlogi is currently in a good place for tanks in terms of brick tanking The Gunnlogi's Base Regeneration is far too high The Madrugar is currently not viable because of missing fitting, and missing items The Dropsuit Specializations are Sidegrades (Upgrades with drawbacks) Therefore I'm starting with the shield tanks to generate stats from, and going with a recharge time concept, and currently setting it at 60 seconds for HAVs. I generated the stats by looking at the Ratios of different stats in the given drop-suit (or listed ship) line (assuming base). I also added a shield regeneration bonus (flat, not percentage) to the shield extenders in order to maintain a 60 second recharge time for HAVs (and assumed a 30 second recharge time for LAVs). The Madrugar PGU and CPU are based on exchanging 25% CPU for 25% PGU. I am hoping that if they implement a shield recharge solution similar to what I've suggested, that it allows shield recharge % mods to apply after the flat modifications from shield extenders. Link What do ya'll think? Excuse me but what pills are you throwing in? Dropsuit specialisations are better in allmost every aspect then their regular frames. -Basic light frames get no skill bonuses, no fitting bonus for cloaks. While the scout specialisation gets cloak fitting bonus and specific racial bonuses like dampening or scan bonuses etc. -basic medium frames are like assaults except they do not get any fitting bonuses for grendaes, light weapons and sidearms. The only suit that has a drawback would be the logi but that is a complete different role. -basic heavy frames have less HP and no resistance bonuses. Sentinel suits get race specific bonuses, resistance vs splash damage and fitting bonus for heavy weapons. Sure a basic heavy has more HP then a commando but on the other hand a commando can use 2 light weapons and can carry a nanohive. All specialisation are either upgrades from basic frames or they fullfill a complete other role then the basics. This means they are all upgrades in all aspects. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 135	Posted - 2014.12.26 22:04:00 - [524] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Here are the numbers that I've come up with thus far: Assumptions: The Gunnlogi is currently in a good place for tanks in terms of brick tanking The Gunnlogi's Base Regeneration is far too high The Madrugar is currently not viable because of missing fitting, and missing items The Dropsuit Specializations are Sidegrades (Upgrades with drawbacks) Therefore I'm starting with the shield tanks to generate stats from, and going with a recharge time concept, and currently setting it at 60 seconds for HAVs. I generated the stats by looking at the Ratios of different stats in the given drop-suit (or listed ship) line (assuming base). I also added a shield regeneration bonus (flat, not percentage) to the shield extenders in order to maintain a 60 second recharge time for HAVs (and assumed a 30 second recharge time for LAVs). The Madrugar PGU and CPU are based on exchanging 25% CPU for 25% PGU. I am hoping that if they implement a shield recharge solution similar to what I've suggested, that it allows shield recharge % mods to apply after the flat modifications from shield extenders. Link What do ya'll think? Excuse me but what pills are you throwing in? Dropsuit specialisations are better in allmost every aspect then their regular frames. -Basic light frames get no skill bonuses, no fitting bonus for cloaks. While the scout specialisation gets cloak fitting bonus and specific racial bonuses like dampening or scan bonuses etc. -basic medium frames are like assaults except they do not get any fitting bonuses for grendaes, light weapons and sidearms. The only suit that has a drawback would be the logi but that is a complete different role. -basic heavy frames have less HP and no resistance bonuses. Sentinel suits get race specific bonuses, resistance vs splash damage and fitting bonus for heavy weapons. Sure a basic heavy has more HP then a commando but on the other hand a commando can use 2 light weapons and can carry a nanohive. All specialisation are either upgrades from basic frames or they fullfill a complete other role then the basics. This means they are all upgrades in all aspects. Let me rephrase, That they are the kind of sidegrades that he's looking for, sidegrades to fulfill a specific role Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 6004	Posted - 2014.12.26 22:52:00 - [525] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: If you've never been a pilot, why are you here? Until you learn to read, shut up. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 6004	Posted - 2014.12.26 22:54:00 - [526] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: because you never tanked through the old days Been a madrugar pilot since early beta. Love how you nerds assume that because I'm primary AV I don't have a clue what I'm talking about. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 302	Posted - 2014.12.27 00:19:00 - [527] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: because you never tanked through the old days Been a madrugar pilot since early beta. Love how you nerds assume that because I'm primary AV I don't have a clue what I'm talking about. 1. This thread has numerous examples of you not knowing what you are talking about aswell as your usual posts in general
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16289	Posted - 2014.12.27 03:23:00 - [528] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: because you never tanked through the old days Been a madrugar pilot since early beta. Love how you nerds assume that because I'm primary AV I don't have a clue what I'm talking about. 1. This thread has numerous examples of you not knowing what you are talking about aswell as your usual posts in general This thread has a lot of examples from "established tankers" not actually understand what a tank is.....but its fine either way. I just hope Rattati actually listens to the one fairly competent individual in this thread and acts on his suggests. ((Three guesses who its it.... cuz its not me, its not spkr, and its not dukey)) *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 6007	Posted - 2014.12.27 08:54:00 - [529] - Quote I imagine theyre goig to shout down any suggestion for bringing marauders and enforcers back unless they come back exactly as thet want them. Overpowered and untouchable by anything other than another HAV. Rattati if the "established" tank drivers are going to be ungrateful, scream and accuse you of incompetence I would take it as a formal request to abandon brinking these tank classes in favor of amarr and minmatar setups using existing art assets as placeholders. This is why we cannot have nice things. Either that or my recommendation would be to get "that little sh*t pokey" on skype with the CPM and have a talk. He has a phenomenal grasp of what is going on here to the point where all I can reasonably contribute to the work he's been doing is eyeballing his ideas for AV/V balance so things remain difficult for AV but keeping with 1 player =1 player regardless of fitting. He's really been the most constructive on the topic of HAV balance. And he's been enlisting player feedback on how things might work to submit a baseline to you for vehicles until the usual suspects invade his threads to scream, rant and shout him down. Please seriously consider enlisting him to assist you in your vehicle rebalance efforts. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 135	Posted - 2014.12.27 09:05:00 - [530] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I imagine theyre goig to shout down any suggestion for bringing marauders and enforcers back unless they come back exactly as thet want them. Overpowered and untouchable by anything other than another HAV. Rattati if the "established" tank drivers are going to be ungrateful, scream and accuse you of incompetence I would take it as a formal request to abandon brinking these tank classes in favor of amarr and minmatar setups using existing art assets as placeholders. This is why we cannot have nice things. Either that or my recommendation would be to get "that little sh*t pokey" on skype with the CPM and have a talk. He has a phenomenal grasp of what is going on here to the point where all I can reasonably contribute to the work he's been doing is eyeballing his ideas for AV/V balance so things remain difficult for AV but keeping with 1 player =1 player regardless of fitting. He's really been the most constructive on the topic of HAV balance. And he's been enlisting player feedback on how things might work to submit a baseline to you for vehicles until the usual suspects invade his threads to scream, rant and shout him down. Please seriously consider enlisting him to assist you in your vehicle rebalance efforts. You're really good at eyeballing numbers, any chance you could take a look at the spreadsheet I linked in an earlier post? and I do agree that 1 player should kill 1 player...but what about the vehicles with 3 players inside? or a dropship transport that controls 6 ish? (Just asking, not trying to sound hostile or anything here, just legitimately curious about it) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 6007	Posted - 2014.12.27 10:43:00 - [531] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: You're really good at eyeballing numbers, any chance you could take a look at the spreadsheet I linked in an earlier post? and I do agree that 1 player should kill 1 player...but what about the vehicles with 3 players inside? or a dropship transport that controls 6 ish? (Just asking, not trying to sound hostile or anything here, just legitimately curious about it) Please re-link the post and I'll look. And believe it or not a party tank with two competent turret monkeys is a nightmare to put down. It is easily exponentially harder to kill but still doable solo along the same vein that it is possible for a single man to kill 3 people in a row on foot with a rifle. My only real complaint about a party tank is that IMHO the secondary turrets are buggy and unreliable. When they work they REALLY WORK. Introduce a little lag and they take a dump. I would prefer that they really work more often but as with all things skill, planning and positioning should be the most powerful thing. As far as dropships go, everyone inside can bail out so unless the wreck lands on you there's no excuse for dying when a DS gets splashed. But currently transport dropships enjoy the same tankability as HAVs do. This is overcompensating for the fact that the maps are so constrained that there's really nowhere they can escape TO except the redline where they are useless. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 660	Posted - 2014.12.27 10:44:00 - [532] - Quote Wow and i thought the ADS threads went south, more than half of this seems to be crying about whether breaking stuff is a tanker or not. Who cares? I in fact respect his opinion NOT because he agreed with pilots that the nerf was harsh, but spent good time testing it out ingame to verify the findings. Like it or not we need a dedicated rational AV player (scrub) to help balance out what we want from the tanks, and what the infantry will have to deal with. Can we get back on subject? If not,its seems like the Rational voices are being drowned out. Would love to continues this elsewhere. True, Pokey, Breakingstuff, other players who can have a discussion about vehicles coming back can catch me in game or on skype. Tesfa514. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 136	Posted - 2014.12.27 10:50:00 - [533] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: You're really good at eyeballing numbers, any chance you could take a look at the spreadsheet I linked in an earlier post? and I do agree that 1 player should kill 1 player...but what about the vehicles with 3 players inside? or a dropship transport that controls 6 ish? (Just asking, not trying to sound hostile or anything here, just legitimately curious about it) Please re-link the post and I'll look. And believe it or not a party tank with two competent turret monkeys is a nightmare to put down. It is easily exponentially harder to kill but still doable solo along the same vein that it is possible for a single man to kill 3 people in a row on foot with a rifle. My only real complaint about a party tank is that IMHO the secondary turrets are buggy and unreliable. When they work they REALLY WORK. Introduce a little lag and they take a dump. I would prefer that they really work more often but as with all things skill, planning and positioning should be the most powerful thing. As far as dropships go, everyone inside can bail out so unless the wreck lands on you there's no excuse for dying when a DS gets splashed. But currently transport dropships enjoy the same tankability as HAVs do. This is overcompensating for the fact that the maps are so constrained that there's really nowhere they can escape TO except the redline where they are useless. Link I still need to try to generate fitting stats for the new mods I'm suggesting. Ok, Good to know about what you're thinking there...(Although, I think the front turret could be better placed), but I agree that when they work, they work Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 6007	Posted - 2014.12.27 10:52:00 - [534] - Quote Will hit it when I'm not at work. Pretty sure my boss will get butthurt if I go and spend my workday analyzing HAV balance. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 136	Posted - 2014.12.27 12:20:00 - [535] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Will hit it when I'm not at work. Pretty sure my boss will get butthurt if I go and spend my workday analyzing HAV balance. Edit: I do have to disagree with your assessment that the gunnlogi is in a good place. Right now as it stands it can achieve EHP values untouchable by any other vehicle in the game, outstripping the madrugar by anywhere between 50-125% depending on the fit and the pilot. The madrugar is on the cusp. The TTK on the maddy now should be the TTK with active defenses like hardeners controlled by the pilot turned off. The gunnlogi is too easily bricked and not nearly dependent enough on its regen. As it stands the gunnlogi is entirely too superior to all other options whether V or AV. It needs to be brought back into line and the active tank of the maddy buffed rather than the buffer tank. Another thing that needs to be addressed is poptart heavy pilots. The vehicular homicide heavy is too powerful. The fact that this can be done negates the value of the plasma cannon, which is performing poorly overall vs. Vehicles. There's a raft of problems with HAV balance that have predated Rattati's reign yet he gets the brunt of the blame for the disasters caused by pervious design decisions. Honestly HAVs were balanced best overall from a V/AV perspective in chromosome beta and I want to say 1.2 for vehicle vs. Vehicle battles. Ideally my wish is for Rattati to find the old archives of how that stuff was set up and steal liberally. I really hope they still have those files...as I cannot remember what the active armor rep rate was...or the 180mm plates. I've been tweaking the spreadsheet, but I still think we need to be closer to the Gunnlogi, from a brick tanking perspective, for the MBTs (It does need to be toned down though). I also think that all skills should be providing at least some kind of bonus...some sort of fitting bonus would be nice on the base HAVs (to keep them the versatile middle of the ground) and yeah...poptart heavies need to be fixed overall...(I pilot logi currently, I use the equipment to service my tank and help my team, and a nanite injector when I'm working with my squad to pick them up if the tank we're hunting guns them down with a blaster). Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 6007	Posted - 2014.12.27 12:41:00 - [536] - Quote If the gunnlogis current brickiness was entirely the result of a single active hardener and when that hardener dropped it became vulnerable to fire then I would agree that it is fine. The problem isthe base bufferof the gunnlogi gets too high to where even it's passive tank is higher than can be reasonably dealt with. Passive buffer should only withstand 3-4 shots by itself with an active hardener spiking that number anywhere from six to eight hits. The problem starts when the average gunnlogi buffer STARTS at absorbing 5-6 hits. That's old sagaris EHP from chrome. The marauders. And that's not taking into account that back then AV had a noticably higher rate of fire across the board. I won't go into the problems with large turrets. They have alternately been too effective at AV (looking at you rails/missiles) or utterly ineffectual (blasters). EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 303	Posted - 2014.12.27 13:18:00 - [537] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Wow and i thought the ADS threads went south, more than half of this seems to be crying about whether breaking stuff is a tanker or not. Who cares? I in fact respect his opinion NOT because he agreed with pilots that the nerf was harsh, but spent good time testing it out ingame to verify the findings. Like it or not we need a dedicated rational AV player (scrub) to help balance out what we want from the tanks, and what the infantry will have to deal with. Can we get back on subject? If not,its seems like the Rational voices are being drowned out. Would love to continues this elsewhere. True, Pokey, Breakingstuff, other players who can have a discussion about vehicles coming back can catch me in game or on skype. Tesfa514. 1. This thread is about vehicles - not AV, not infantry 2. If HAV vs HAV and other vehicles are not balanced 1st between each other then its pointless 3. If the vehicles are not improvements over the BASIC HAV then its pointless 4. If we dont know what modules/skills and skill bonuses are coming back then we are working in the dark and proper theory fits cannot be made 5. The other problem is that Rattati needs to update with what CCP thinks they should bring back and placeholder numbers for slots/PG/CPU and anything else they want to bring back - This is guessing in the dark
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 303	Posted - 2014.12.27 13:21:00 - [538] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: because you never tanked through the old days Been a madrugar pilot since early beta. Love how you nerds assume that because I'm primary AV I don't have a clue what I'm talking about. 1. This thread has numerous examples of you not knowing what you are talking about aswell as your usual posts in general This thread has a lot of examples from "established tankers" not actually understand what a tank is.....but its fine either way. I just hope Rattati actually listens to the one fairly competent individual in this thread and acts on his suggests. ((Three guesses who its it.... cuz its not me, its not spkr, and its not dukey)) 1. Ones man competent individual is another mans idiot - Case in point is judge who the vast majority thought was competent and has shown is anything but and now has fallen off the face of the earth
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 6009	Posted - 2014.12.27 14:49:00 - [539] - Quote Why dont you get off your ass and provide numbers and feedback that is useful rather than trying to shout everyone down? Between you and spkr the contribution hs been the rough equivalent of plugging your ears and loudly yelling NONONONONO to try and drown people out. Secondly this attitude that only HAV drivers have any right to comment on HAV balance needs to die. Everyon from the oldest, bitterest vet to the rankest of new newbies has every right to weigh in on any aspect of the game. This elitist "you're not X therefore you want to ruin Y thus your opinion is invalid" BS is so childish that anyone spouting it should have their game privileges removed. Last time this "only tankers get to comment on balance" BS was widespread the rest of us had to cope with the fact that the marauder master race hada gentlemen's agreement not to fire upon one another so they wouldn't lose 2.5 million ISK. So we got to see enemy marauders ten meters across from each other farming infantry while ignoring other tank drivers. That was why I specced heavy, maxed a forge gun and made it my mission in DUST to make every tank burn. That is what you get when only pilots get to comment on vehicles. What happens when only AV players get to weigh in on AV and tank drivers get cut out? You get tanks dead 514 easy mode. Understand laser fo cused you and people of your mindset are firmly in the minority. The rest of us refuse to return to the days where HAVs were more or less unstoppable and the lot of you get to pad you K/D without fear of loss. You don't get your godmachines back. Period. You can help make HAVs fun and functional, or your opinions can be discarded. But thus far the primary contribution of "established HAV pilots" has been to insult the people trying to help, provided a "my way or the highway" attitude, made personal attacks and accusations against the other players and crapped all over rattati, up to and including calling him an idiot with no right to touch vehicles. I don't think you nerds get it. He's the lead on DUST. If he decides HAVs are too problematic he CAN in fact remove them entirely. Not exactly what I call an ideal solution. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1915	Posted - 2014.12.27 15:14:00 - [540] - Quote Hahaha just read your last post and I also remember the tankers truce which also was a direct result of the av buff and tank nerf . I remember one game ware Jason person and my self wereoO the opposing teams and we just rolled past each other right in the middle of the field it was a laugh. Proud Caldari purist . Rank 10 colonel omiwarrior. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.



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